As everyone has said, these videos are great and much appreciated. I am especially grateful for your matchlock series, as it’s basically saved my current Otomo campaign.
I actually often rush to gunpowder mastery as Oda and for other clans as well since it unlocks siege tower bune, which is one of the strongest and cheapest naval units in the game
I have no idea where your channel has been hiding all my life, but I'm glad you started making videos when you did. This is some seriously quality content. Thanks for all the great videos!
There is such a massive opportunity cost when every turn counts, that choosing the right arts is a crucial and unappreciated part of the strategy. Thanks.
Yeah, I sometimes also just have a hard time deciding what I need to get next. I really feel like the developers managed to make most of the arts very balanced.
Five Elements and in general radius increases affect Stand and Fight. I will leave you with implications of that. Attack by fire triples Fire Bomb Throwers accuracy by giving them pernament +50 Accuracy. Swooping Crane IRC does +50 Accuracy which is useful against melee infantry to avoid overkill if you have patience to micro such battles. Gunpowder is a tech that requires more commitment IMO - you want to stack Poet Generals to reach it sooner and also utilize Rockets from Arsenal. Somebody already mentioned why Spear bonuses are better that they seem. Rest is on point.
Hmm, than five elements might move up a tier, but still wouldn't recommend going for it. I generally avoid Fire bomb throwers, since they are expensive and situational.
You put the fleet and spear upgrades at the very bottom, they are much more important than that. The fleet is needed to secure the mainland, the hinterland and, if any, trade. It is cheaper and faster to maintain a fleet than an army to defend the depths of your empire. They are also needed to keep trade routes "clean". Spear upgrades all increase ashigaru levels with the growing castles: it doesn't really matter that you can get up to 2x better for the same money if the loop is really tight. In the case of samurai, you already need a commodity that is almost impossible for the northern clans to get - unless they have a good fleet - but it doesn’t matter here that 1-1 units are made in one or two rounds and at what level it starts.
You can easily dominate in the campaign without any ships. The only time you need them is for transport, but even then, you don't want to be fighting with your navy anyway. Only in special cases, the upkeep of your fleet is worth it, when your trade income exceeds your naval upkeep. Even if you have a good navy, your allies can still block your trade partners, and you can't really do anything about that, no matter how good your navy is. And trade will dry up after realm divide anyway. As for defending the depths of your empire, the AI will generally land in certain spots, and only certain clans will actually naval invade. While it can certainly help, you really don't need the extra bonuses the navy gives to win the battles against enemy ships with armies. For the spears, it's only really worthwhile to have multiple sources of experience stacking. The first level of experience is easily reached, and you generally also don't want to upgrade your castles. So while it might help, it only helps marginally in my opinion. If it gave the amount of experience needed for the final experience level, I would consider moving it up higher. However, I know I personally don't value troop quality as much as other people do.
@@TheVikingGeneral If you’re lucky and don’t deal with it, or hit each other more, the Navy is really unnecessary, but that can change at any time, and if you have to build a navy after that, it’s been bad for a long time - I think a little less revenue and more security the more profitable. They can indeed block commercial ports of destination at any time, but this can be re-tied in 1-2 turns, so it’s not a skyrocketing amount of momentary dropouts - in extreme cases, when every penny counts and that’s why the economy falls, it indicates that player has either overspent or not developed his economy well enough. Even after the realm divide, it is useful to keep the trading places, only after that they do not have to be protected in their vicinity - except for pirates, though, they rarely dare to face 10 merchant ships of at least level 5 - but on the border of the empire. At most, it is worth stopping "fishing" if all opponents are trying to get these points and it would simply cost too much to remanufacture (commercial) ships -> this would still make the Navy work, because enemy fleets could not just book a commercial point. "Usually" ... Then, if something just isn’t going to happen then, the collapse may come and the game is over. That’s why I prefer to maintain fleets of ships that are much cheaper than an army, but at least level 5, so that I can avert ALL surprises. After the realm divide, with me, every clan wants to sail, regardless of whether they have built ships at all before, so again, I can't count on the security provided by the "usually" clause. Armies may sometimes be transported by fewer ships, but there are times when they are "covered" by more ships - after a realm divide, different warlords can help each other, even beyond their knowledge and will. Well, these unforeseen cases require a slightly larger fleet - not to mention the "acquisition" of the Black Ship ... Extra levels of ships also help you avoid having to build, maintain, and deploy more ships than your opponent in battles to succeed. I don't raise the castle levels in all places either, but in the right places I always pull the highest available. My army also comes from these places, "usually" ... On the other hand, if I need a soldier urgently, I also recruit from smaller places, and even then that pair comes in handy, plus the level, because it doesn't really matter if my people persevere from staffing disadvantages or not. Besides, if 1-2 agents fail the sabotage, even several enemy armies can enter the battle at the same time and even then the few levels of quality difference between the troops can be worth a lot. Levels may come easily in battle, but when the unit first enters the battlefield, it may already need higher levels to survive, or even to win. There may be people who anticipate a lot of things and always solve their problems with just the least enough, but I don’t (yet) belong to them in this game.
The five elements is underrated. If you play with yari + bow ashigaru with high ranks, a general with stand and fight this ability is broken. This is a 20% buff on the radius, not the area so it is more like a 60%+ buff on the area size. Your yari ashigaru and bow ashigaru will have better stats than samurai.
I like that coloured tree at the end and I agree with the general premise. Go for heaven & earth, then go for either sword or bow upgrades. First naval tech and attack by fire are situational.
Playing as any clan I focus on getting fire arrows extremely op early tech. Vital for protecting my trade network. I usually play as ikko ikki so protecting my trade is crucial.
Great list, even though my favourite arts: Gunpowder mastery and Master of the Waves are all the way down in the list. They deserve to be there, but they are so much fun.
Sadly, I don't think it does. But even if it does, I'm not quite sure if I'd give it another tier, since the stand and fight ability range is quite big to begin with.
I'd bump Way of the Sea up to at least C tier because there are times where you want to counter amphibious landings from island clans, and if you're based in Kyushu you want to secure control of the trade nodes ASAP, because the income you get from them is insane. Way of the Spear and Spear Expertise, I'd up them to A Tier and C Tier respectively because they upgrade your Yari Ashigaru, the single best unit in the game which everyone uses, as well as enable Naginata Samurai, which are a sturdy front line unit that tanks arrows like a champion.
Naginata are unlocked at strategy of defence. The 1xp for yari ashigaru is kinda worthless as the yari wall doesn't benefit from attack and defence stats. The master dojo allows for recruiting naginatas twice as fast and with good starting xp, so that might be worth it if you go for a naginata front line. However naginata front line builds usually rely on bow units doing the damage, so you'll take those first.
@@Vincrand im sorry they dont get the bonuses from attack, ive been conquering the hojo early every oda campaign cus i wanted attack bonuses for yari ahigaru and now thats wasted 😭
@@justarandomhandle1 they should get the attack buff fom a xp and also the weaponsmith, but attack is probably the least important useful stat on a yari ashigaru. Armor, defence and morale for the early game are better imo.
@@Vincrand ive stopped playing sengoku campaign as much and now im mainly doing FoTs but when i eventually go back ill take this note (side thing, would you recondmend changing to weaponsmith when i move away from yari ashigaru and towards samurai)
@@justarandomhandle1 For naginatas I'd go for full attack (encampment + province building). For katanas I'd go for weaponsmith + armor upgrade from encampment. For naginata warrior monks I'd go full armor.
Ha, for me I always use way of the spear because once capital upgraded I can recruit lots xp2 yari ashigaru, with the +1 defence, yari wall!!! I would rank form higher as the special units can have a general leadership effect, I would normally recruit 2-3 of those cavalry units for main force and/or strategic defence - probably Kiosamas Cavalry and Spears of Shinzukate (apologies RE spellings)
The description for the spear tree says that it benefits "ALL spear-wielding recruits." Wouldn't this not also benefit your yari ashigaru? That's the way I interpret it and if that's the case, then that's awesome. But you say it only benefits your yari samurai units??
Appreciate your effort for making all the Shogun 2 videos. It's a good game and the new comers will definitely benefit from watching your videos.
That is the goal for me, glad you like the effort! :)
As everyone has said, these videos are great and much appreciated. I am especially grateful for your matchlock series, as it’s basically saved my current Otomo campaign.
Glad to be of help, and thank you for the kind words!
I actually often rush to gunpowder mastery as Oda and for other clans as well since it unlocks siege tower bune, which is one of the strongest and cheapest naval units in the game
I have no idea where your channel has been hiding all my life, but I'm glad you started making videos when you did. This is some seriously quality content. Thanks for all the great videos!
Thank you for the kind words! As for hiding, I don't think you're 7 months old :P
There is such a massive opportunity cost when every turn counts, that choosing the right arts is a crucial and unappreciated part of the strategy. Thanks.
Yeah, I sometimes also just have a hard time deciding what I need to get next. I really feel like the developers managed to make most of the arts very balanced.
Five Elements and in general radius increases affect Stand and Fight. I will leave you with implications of that.
Attack by fire triples Fire Bomb Throwers accuracy by giving them pernament +50 Accuracy. Swooping Crane IRC does +50 Accuracy which is useful against melee infantry to avoid overkill if you have patience to micro such battles.
Gunpowder is a tech that requires more commitment IMO - you want to stack Poet Generals to reach it sooner and also utilize Rockets from Arsenal.
Somebody already mentioned why Spear bonuses are better that they seem.
Rest is on point.
Hmm, than five elements might move up a tier, but still wouldn't recommend going for it. I generally avoid Fire bomb throwers, since they are expensive and situational.
You put the fleet and spear upgrades at the very bottom, they are much more important than that.
The fleet is needed to secure the mainland, the hinterland and, if any, trade. It is cheaper and faster to maintain a fleet than an army to defend the depths of your empire. They are also needed to keep trade routes "clean".
Spear upgrades all increase ashigaru levels with the growing castles: it doesn't really matter that you can get up to 2x better for the same money if the loop is really tight. In the case of samurai, you already need a commodity that is almost impossible for the northern clans to get - unless they have a good fleet - but it doesn’t matter here that 1-1 units are made in one or two rounds and at what level it starts.
+1
You can easily dominate in the campaign without any ships. The only time you need them is for transport, but even then, you don't want to be fighting with your navy anyway. Only in special cases, the upkeep of your fleet is worth it, when your trade income exceeds your naval upkeep. Even if you have a good navy, your allies can still block your trade partners, and you can't really do anything about that, no matter how good your navy is. And trade will dry up after realm divide anyway.
As for defending the depths of your empire, the AI will generally land in certain spots, and only certain clans will actually naval invade. While it can certainly help, you really don't need the extra bonuses the navy gives to win the battles against enemy ships with armies.
For the spears, it's only really worthwhile to have multiple sources of experience stacking. The first level of experience is easily reached, and you generally also don't want to upgrade your castles. So while it might help, it only helps marginally in my opinion. If it gave the amount of experience needed for the final experience level, I would consider moving it up higher. However, I know I personally don't value troop quality as much as other people do.
@@TheVikingGeneral
If you’re lucky and don’t deal with it, or hit each other more, the Navy is really unnecessary, but that can change at any time, and if you have to build a navy after that, it’s been bad for a long time - I think a little less revenue and more security the more profitable.
They can indeed block commercial ports of destination at any time, but this can be re-tied in 1-2 turns, so it’s not a skyrocketing amount of momentary dropouts - in extreme cases, when every penny counts and that’s why the economy falls, it indicates that player has either overspent or not developed his economy well enough.
Even after the realm divide, it is useful to keep the trading places, only after that they do not have to be protected in their vicinity - except for pirates, though, they rarely dare to face 10 merchant ships of at least level 5 - but on the border of the empire. At most, it is worth stopping "fishing" if all opponents are trying to get these points and it would simply cost too much to remanufacture (commercial) ships -> this would still make the Navy work, because enemy fleets could not just book a commercial point.
"Usually" ...
Then, if something just isn’t going to happen then, the collapse may come and the game is over.
That’s why I prefer to maintain fleets of ships that are much cheaper than an army, but at least level 5, so that I can avert ALL surprises. After the realm divide, with me, every clan wants to sail, regardless of whether they have built ships at all before, so again, I can't count on the security provided by the "usually" clause. Armies may sometimes be transported by fewer ships, but there are times when they are "covered" by more ships - after a realm divide, different warlords can help each other, even beyond their knowledge and will. Well, these unforeseen cases require a slightly larger fleet - not to mention the "acquisition" of the Black Ship ...
Extra levels of ships also help you avoid having to build, maintain, and deploy more ships than your opponent in battles to succeed.
I don't raise the castle levels in all places either, but in the right places I always pull the highest available. My army also comes from these places, "usually" ...
On the other hand, if I need a soldier urgently, I also recruit from smaller places, and even then that pair comes in handy, plus the level, because it doesn't really matter if my people persevere from staffing disadvantages or not. Besides, if 1-2 agents fail the sabotage, even several enemy armies can enter the battle at the same time and even then the few levels of quality difference between the troops can be worth a lot.
Levels may come easily in battle, but when the unit first enters the battlefield, it may already need higher levels to survive, or even to win.
There may be people who anticipate a lot of things and always solve their problems with just the least enough, but I don’t (yet) belong to them in this game.
Never stop making videos :)
I mean, that is the plan. We'll see how far we get :P
No iaht is the kind of content I need on a Friday morning!
The five elements is underrated.
If you play with yari + bow ashigaru with high ranks, a general with stand and fight this ability is broken. This is a 20% buff on the radius, not the area so it is more like a 60%+ buff on the area size.
Your yari ashigaru and bow ashigaru will have better stats than samurai.
I like that coloured tree at the end and I agree with the general premise. Go for heaven & earth, then go for either sword or bow upgrades. First naval tech and attack by fire are situational.
Hope everything so okay my guy. Thanks for your insight.
Putting spears arts so low? Wtf, they make stronger what will be more than half of your armies for all the campaing, I consider them the best
Yari wall barely gets any benefit from xp.
Playing as any clan I focus on getting fire arrows extremely op early tech. Vital for protecting my trade network. I usually play as ikko ikki so protecting my trade is crucial.
As an otomo player this was a good opportunity to learn about the right side of the tree.
Great list, even though my favourite arts: Gunpowder mastery and Master of the Waves are all the way down in the list. They deserve to be there, but they are so much fun.
I think the entire tech trees need reworking also they need to make gunpowder units more viable
dont forget, once you build end tier army builder, you got a bonus stat such as sword dojo will give you +2 melee att which is great
If 5 elements stacks with stand and fight should be bit higher in tier list tbh
Sadly, I don't think it does. But even if it does, I'm not quite sure if I'd give it another tier, since the stand and fight ability range is quite big to begin with.
@@TheVikingGeneral yeh if it don't stack it's in the trash.
This is gold :D By any chance you have a video in which order you research both of the trees?
I'd bump Way of the Sea up to at least C tier because there are times where you want to counter amphibious landings from island clans, and if you're based in Kyushu you want to secure control of the trade nodes ASAP, because the income you get from them is insane.
Way of the Spear and Spear Expertise, I'd up them to A Tier and C Tier respectively because they upgrade your Yari Ashigaru, the single best unit in the game which everyone uses, as well as enable Naginata Samurai, which are a sturdy front line unit that tanks arrows like a champion.
Naginata are unlocked at strategy of defence. The 1xp for yari ashigaru is kinda worthless as the yari wall doesn't benefit from attack and defence stats. The master dojo allows for recruiting naginatas twice as fast and with good starting xp, so that might be worth it if you go for a naginata front line. However naginata front line builds usually rely on bow units doing the damage, so you'll take those first.
@@Vincrand im sorry they dont get the bonuses from attack, ive been conquering the hojo early every oda campaign cus i wanted attack bonuses for yari ahigaru and now thats wasted 😭
@@justarandomhandle1 they should get the attack buff fom a xp and also the weaponsmith, but attack is probably the least important useful stat on a yari ashigaru. Armor, defence and morale for the early game are better imo.
@@Vincrand ive stopped playing sengoku campaign as much and now im mainly doing FoTs but when i eventually go back ill take this note (side thing, would you recondmend changing to weaponsmith when i move away from yari ashigaru and towards samurai)
@@justarandomhandle1 For naginatas I'd go for full attack (encampment + province building). For katanas I'd go for weaponsmith + armor upgrade from encampment. For naginata warrior monks I'd go full armor.
LOVELY❤️
Thank you! :)
Ha, for me I always use way of the spear because once capital upgraded I can recruit lots xp2 yari ashigaru, with the +1 defence, yari wall!!!
I would rank form higher as the special units can have a general leadership effect, I would normally recruit 2-3 of those cavalry units for main force and/or strategic defence - probably Kiosamas Cavalry and Spears of Shinzukate (apologies RE spellings)
The description for the spear tree says that it benefits "ALL spear-wielding recruits." Wouldn't this not also benefit your yari ashigaru? That's the way I interpret it and if that's the case, then that's awesome. But you say it only benefits your yari samurai units??
Im dissapointed
The last tier needed to be "SHAMEFUL DISPLAY"
I feel stupid now. :O
@@TheVikingGeneral it happens to the best