How to Avoid DNF in Ultra Running
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- DNF. Did Not Finish. About 50% of Ultra Runner will not cross that finish line. With all of the training, sacrifice and efforts of the past few months and years - this is an unfortunate but likely outcome. But how can you avoid DNF?
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The reality is that failure is an intrinsic consequence of attempting something ambitious. By challenging ourselves, and by pushing our limits,
there is a risk of failure, a risk of DNF. We shouldn't let these DNF define us, but we should also learn from them to avoid DNF in the future.
Having completed 44 of 44 100 miles attempts, I've faced many challenging situations. And I've developed tips that can help you reduce the risk of DNF. Today, I'm sharing these tips with you, which focus a lot on appropriate preparation, making the right decision on race day, and finally having a strong mental game.
My hope is that these tips will help you achieve your goals.
As always - Thanks for watching and remember -
Work Hard!
Believe in yourself!
Push your limits! Simon
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Those 3 letters are ones no runner is ever prepared for because of all the training and effort you put into it. I'm a veteran of 11 marathons plus one DNF that I hate even to say that I attempted it. Not finishing a distance race does indeed suck but you have to be prepared for your next race. No matter the distance, if you finish the race you have truly fulfilled a major accomplishment. They will come.
That's true - we prepare to succeed but we're all going to face a DNF one day
i DNF once and it sucked until i changed my outlook on it. now i consider it scouting and record it with my other runs where i get lost or im learning a new trail or where my dog gets snow in her feet and we have to turn back early. running is about the experience and the fun. DNF is a valid finish. the problem isnt with the DNF its with your mental game
Thank you for saying that making the decision to DNF is sometimes the right decision. I've DNF'ed once - it was the right decision on the day, and I learnt a lot from it. No regrets.
First, let me say that Simon is a class act! I got the most genuine and kind reply to a comment I I made ; it really brightened my day. Secondly, i agree with everything you said Simon and would add three points; put the phone and the iPod down; you need to get comfortable being alone with your own thoughts and tuned in to the environment you’re running in, particularly at night when strange noises will create stress that could be completely unthreatening. And additionally, with the night your body responds differently to everything; your metabolism slows down your body’s digestive system shuts down and wants to reject food and wants your body Want s to do everything it can to tell you to stop; so train at night because many racers hopes and dreams end at night Get out of the gym gym; you need to run in the rain, mud and cold and be comfortable exposing all of f those at the same time. And most importantly; experiment with different electrolyte mixes when your metabolism slows your body wants to reject fluid intake so it takes time to find a flavor and mix you’ll drink even when your body says I don’t want to drink; lemon lime generously tricks your taste buds into drinking it but for me it’s watermelon ; balanced hydration keeps your body and brain working and it helps time to time to find what works for you to keep your body happy and keep dnf away!
Totally. I think we should normalize it when it’s the right decision!!!
@@BellasBone great points thanks for sharing
@@runningwithsimon my pleasure:-)
@@BellasBone i DNF once. if i tried to finish, theres a good chance i would have died. i was running in the winter unsupported in the back country at night in a foot of powder and i was already soaked, freezing, and exhausted to the point i was barely walking. my water and fuel was frozen solid. i passed a road and was going to continue, but made the decision to turn around to follow the road back to town and then a ride appeared. they thought i was a serial killer lol
I failed my first ultra attempt (53 kilometers course) in 2021. Didn't make it into cutoff like a dozen minutes, because my feet hurt. I never managed to run an Ultra in 2022 or 2023 either. But this year, 2024, in June, I successfully ran 58, and then, just a month later, I returned to the same race from 2021 but this time it was 110 km, not 53 km distance. And I nailed it. Sure, it took me 3 years to 'regroup', train and finally do it, but then again, if you really want this, why not take this time? :)
That’s awesome! Congratulations- learn from it and came back stronger. That’s awesome thanks for sharing :)
How many KM you were running weekly when preparing for the 110KM this year? 🤙🏼
@@NicoDuranPOV The plan was to have ~100-105 km weekly for 6 weeks before the taper. It didn't quite go as planned, but when I'll be preparing for the same race next year, that's what I'll be targeting again.
@@m0nk5tr nice! Thanks for sharing sir! My mid-long term plan is to run a 80km first so I want to get the weekly kms in 🙌🏼
@@NicoDuranPOV Best of luck to you, mate! :)
I am a beginner runner and Simon, I LOVE and appreciate your videos so much. I have learned so much!! You are such an inspiration. Keep them coming! Thank you thank you!
You're welcome! Have fun out there :)
I've never DNF'd, but I've finished dead last and had another where I had a great finish then collapsed and got transported to the hospital (kidney injury). What I know is experience is the #1 factor for ultra and trail running. Run every race you can in the area and climate you're doing your primary race in, even if they're shorter distances. You'll learn everything you need to know out there on the trail.
I hope you are better now, sounds scary
@@Go_Irish Finishing last isn't an insult or a less-ing of one's ability to run. You just happened to have a bad day on a tough course. Chalk it up to that and aim for finishing a race regardless of your place.
Really enjoyable info Simon. Having faced a DNF in my first ultra ‘leaning into it’ was one of the ways that I dealt with the issue at the time.
So you got it done?
@@runningwithsimon yeh mate. Got it done in the end.
thanks for the tips!! This winter I have my first marathon, and in spring I’ve signed up for a 50k. Gonna be coming back to this video often 😅
You got this :)
I watched this video a day after DNF-ing (my first) a 90km self supported run. It was totally the right decision on the day, but now looking to see how to avoid it ever again. 43/43 is very impressive, I will be watching more tips from you in the future!
Sorry to hear that, but glad you know it was the right decision. That's the right mindset for sure. It stinks and it's fine to take some time to feel bad. But then you bounce back, figure out what you could have done differently, and come back stronger. I'm writing the script for the follow-up on that. Talk
Great video Simon, thank you. Just had my first DNF. It was the right decision, but it was totally preventable. Im still struggling with execution, especially nutrition/hydration (salt!) which ive found tough to emulate in training runs...getting to the same level of nausea as deeper in a race when nothing seems good but has to be forced down. I've over-relied on mental toughness to get me thru shorter ultras to-date and am finding yiur channel very helpful as I try to level up. Thanks for the great advice and content.
I'm sorry to hear that - but sounds like you found the issue and will work on solution!
Totally agree with that. Same for me with fueling. I can fuel the same way in training as shorter ultras. But at 14-16hrs, it's just not something I'm able to mimick to be fully honest. And then I feel like I'm "playing by hear" but it's less than perfect :/
Thank you for this Simon! I am running my first backyard ultra on August 24th and am looking to push myself for the win. At the same time I am worried about lingering injuries that may get worse if I push too hard, hindering my plans for training for my next ultra. We'll see how it goes, but this information has helped lots! Merci beaucoup mon compatriote canadien!
Good luck out there! Let me know how it goes!
You put this video out on the eve of my first ultra (a 50k), and it was my first recommendation when I tuned into TH-cam to have on in the background when I stretched before bed ahead of the big day!
I finished! I could have started slower, but I wasn’t totally f****d😂
Thank you for all your content, I’ve learned so much and gained so much confidence by watching!
@@bryangerding6116 that’s amazing, congrats :)
Great video! I had to dnf this past weekend at 95km out of 160km. I guess that's about 59 miles? It killed me to do that id put so much effort into it hut foot issues prevented me from going terribly fast and i knew i was going to chase cutoffs and convinced myself i wouldn't make it. The mental game required to push through is intense and something i gotta work on
Sorry to hear that - never the outcome we want... But sounds like you're already doing the introspection work needed!
@@runningwithsimon trying too! As I reflect on what happened I am thinking this dnf might be good thing going forward if it inspires me to make necessary changes to my training
@@infinitelyimpossible7170 that's basically the premise of the video I'll publish either tonight or tomorrow
Thanks for another great video! Have you considered making a video about stretching before or after a run?
Thanks! I don't think I have enough knowledge for this. I stretch sometimes, mostly dynamic stretch. But not regularly. I probably should do more but I'm sure other runners out there could do a better job at describing and explaining it.
I find your videos to be very helpful. I’m running Leadville next weekend and have been watching your videos!!
Good luck! I'll be racing too :)
So will I! Good luck to you both!!
I used to worry about DNF, but now I have finished more races I don't really care unless it is my main race for the year. If I'm having fun I keep going, if not I stop and get a beer 🍻
Totally! I was talking exactly about that with Martin / @UltraKraut after Tahoe (he had DNF but came back 1 week later to finish Crazy Mountain - we had him on our podcast). Anyhow, at some point, you really don't have anything to prove to anyone. And since we're doing it for fun / adventure / etc. So pulling the plug sometimes is clearly the right thing.
My motto:
"Just need to get to next aid station..."
That's my "let's at least get to Nora!" :)
Quebecois? Loved the video. New follower, looking forward to watching your content
Oui! Je suis de Montreal. But now I'm based in the San Diego area. I did Quebec Mega Trail a few weeks back!
@@runningwithsimon Great content Simon, subscribed! I am also a Montrealer, just getting into trail running (30km event completed so far). Mostly training in Rigaud at the moment. Any suggestions for other great trails in the Greater Montreal Area?
@@RONINSIXSTRING Sadly no recommendations. I wasn't trail running when I left Montreal (first for Quebec city, then Switzerland, Sweden, now US).
Thanks, I DNF’d Fat Dog 120 for the second year in a row, I’m looking for an easier 100 miler for next year, so likely in the US, I missed the cutoff but finished the course for Whistler Alpine Meadows 100 miler in 2019, it feels like I’ve lost my mental ability to push hard enough to make the cut offs, having been injured with Achilles problems the last 3 years hasn’t helped either though
Have you been able to resolve your achilles problem, or it's still dragging? We shouldn't have to push through injury, right?
Anyhow - have you set your eyes on a specific race?
I thought I had the issue resolved, it was mostly on really steep grades over 25%, the trails I train on are just as steep but have steps on roots and rocks so your heel doesn’t drop. I was thinking of Oregon Cascades, a friend says it’s a good one, and I can drive there. Next year though, not in 2 weeks. I’m crewing a friend at Divide 200, and I’m not ready to try again yet
@@derekrstevenson Same here for "it's fine except bad climbs". Tahoe there was a climb that we did twice which really messed it up. Good luck to your friend at divide 200!
Last weekend, my first DNF on JKET-100
Sorry to hear that - hope you'll recover well
How bout a in depth video on each segment and any tips for specific areas?
I have a lot of those topics covered - I tried to indicate with the "ping" and thumbnails. The full list of tips I have is here(and always growing) :
th-cam.com/play/PL0hJ0EXAkuLEzBZ4ubXwK0iBSW4cN6UyP.html&si=ouVwfw1f2HV4_IK9
You are great inspiration. And mentally super tough. Thank you! I am thinking to sign up for my first backyard ultra. Any suggestions how to avoid DNF there :)
Haha, you got me! No tips for that, go get that DNF or that win!!!
Ps: I’ve actually never done one … I should someday. Not sure which but seems like something I want to test someday!
Hey Simon, thank you for the video. Speaking of DNF. Do you have any suggestion on how to pace ultra marathon? Like when to walk or decide to run? I feel like with all the mental stress that going on, it would be nice to have a baseline guideline to follow so as not to overdo it or maybe or being too conservative too. Thanks ahead!
Depends on distance and your goal, and the cutoff. But the first important point in my mind is the difference between "walking" (aka like strolling and "power hiking" (aka walking with purpose). I'd say, never walk. You push the pace even when "walking". Then it'll depend on distance. For 100 miles, and actually for any distance from half marathon and more (as long as the goal is "only" to finish) -> power hike the hills, run the flat and down. When you get into the 50k or more territory, include more walking on the flat. It'd be great to have a flat pace all race, but reality is that at first, I'd say, slow jog flat/down. And when it starts to be little harder, you swithc to more power hiking. Power hiking can also help if nutrition is hard and such. Hope that's helpful -it's hard to describe and is fairly personnal. But that's what works well for me.
Thanks!
Thank you :)
The ding on cards popping up is distracting.
ok noted. I'll try to reduce
@@runningwithsimon Thanks! Love the videos.
Hey Simon, i just ran my firt 100k (the "Death march" in Bornem, Belgium) last weekend in 16h20 total. I walked it 8 times before but this time i wanted to run as much as possible and my legs just kept going, i still can't fully believe it. I only did 1 marathon before as a test for my kit. The information from your videos really helped me prepare better. Thank you for all the effort you put in your video's.
That's awesome, congrats!!! sorry for not seeing this before - really happy for you :)
So you mean you walked the whole (8x) 100k before?! Wow that's dedication! Hard work paid off :)
This will be a 2 part series - today we work on avoiding DNF. I'd love for all of your hard work to pay off and never having to face one. But in the second part, we'll talk how to deal with DNF, learn from it, and grow!
Three 100k, Three 100 milers, one 200 miler No DNF... this year new kid, my training is S****, I am on plan C for a WS qualifier which isn't motivating... The hay isn't in the barn. A friend of mine, who also had a kid, whet big and DNFed. I think I should have pushed for my plan A and when I was a total mess at least I would have had my motivation. Can my stubbornness get me to the finish line, my foot stopped working at mile 116 of Tahoe 200 and I grinded it into the finish line with no running. But I was motivated by the race, we will see.
Congrats on the new kid. Yeah for sure that’s gonna hurt training. Hopefully your plan C works!
Thanks for another good video. Let me suggest you present solutions to deal with the DNF factors during the race. Like how to get your hydration or electrolytes back on track, what about headlamp failure, blister / hot spots, etc.?
I'll try to remember that. I will probably have a couple of problem -> solution in my next one about how to deal with DNF. It's hard to be exhaustive because so many things can go wrong, but that's a good idea thanks.
Great video! Here are my 2 cents: set a target pace/time for the race and train at the target pace/time. Usually, during training sessions, people are not too tired, running at a higher pace and completing the required weekly volume much faster than it will happen during the race. After the first 6 or 8 hours, the body will get tired, the running pace will slow down and everything will take more time than it was during the training sessions. One of the options is to train by the total running time and not by the distance, which will help the body to better adapt to the required 24, 32 or 52 hours of the race. Another point is to do a large number of long runs with your entire set of the required gear. Running with a half empty vest is much easier that running with a full vest with 3 times more weight and it takes time to adapt and to feel normal when running with all the required gear. The final point is to train on routes similar to the target route especially the overall weekly distance/elevation ratio should be as close as possible to the target route.
@@alexshraib good points
I always listen to people say you need a good reason why you are doing this. This always makes me try to think hard… The only reason why for me is that it’s the next challenge to complete.
Same- and that's good enough . We take on challenges to prove to ourselves that we can succeed at brutal things, and get that feeling of pride and accomplishment. The knowledge that we're adding to a list of cool things we've done, that we can look back at and think "yeah, I did that. " There's many reasons to run ultras, and loving challenges is as good a reason as any.
@@chrisjones5192 some times it’s just "why not”. You don’t HAVE to have a strong why, but it helps.
Btw your videos are very well done!
Thanks!
Thanks for this video and all the others (and podcast), they have really helped my journey into Ultras. Last month I had my first ever DNF, also my first attempt at 100km. It was completely my fault, as I hadn't trained enough and picked up an injury on the day as I really just hadn't put the miles in and got my body used to it. Sadly I'm better at making a training plan than sticking to it, but that's definitely something I can learn from.
But two questions for you that I've been meaning to ask for a while. Firstly, with the help of the lovely Nora would you please one day do a video on crewing? As my husband is going to start crewing for me but is a bit out of his depth and nervous about it.
Secondly, for someone who lives in the UK but is very keen to do an ultra in either the USA or Canada is there any you'd recommend, as I'd love to fit one into a holiday one year. Generous cut offs and scenery/views that I wouldn't get at home would be the aim, probably 100km not 100miles and also not somewhere crazy hot!
Sorry for the very long comment and thanks again for the videos, they really have helped me so much!!
Thanks - and sorry to hear about the DNF. Never fun, but hopefully the injury you sustained isn't dragging and you're back on your feet now.
Second question first -> I'm not nearly as familiar with 100k. Black Canyon 100k was awesome, and I feel the 24hr (or 21) cutoff seems very reasonable to me. Similarly, I think the Zion 100k is a solid race (you basically do all the good part of the 100 miles. If you've seen my Zion 100 movies, it's essentially the same course, minus the annoying "smith mesa" which is that big climb on pavement mid day, and the guacamole loop which is where I'm at when sunset occurs.
First question -> yes, I've actually filmed it a few times, and wasn't happy with the outcome so went back to drawing board. It's on my near/mid term plans, but I just struggle at being "satisfied" with it. I always strive to make content that is helpful and it's worth some iteration.
@@runningwithsimon Thank you for such a detailed answer!
love your channel, though you show some gruesome images. Was that mtn. bike crash you? Ouch. They should have DNT if someone bails less than a quarter into a race (Did Not Try).
Yes that crash was me.... Nora won't let me MTB anymore! In 2022 I did both the Grand Slam (Old Dominion, Leadville, Vermont, Wasatch) and Leadman (Leaville Marathon, Silver Rush 50 miles run & bike, Leadville 100 MTB, Leadville 100 Run). I've since retired from MTB - I've never been really good. Maybe if someone showed me I'd enjoy it more. That crash, I broke a rib. Not the worst fall, but I still had a lot more to go, and the run the next weekend.
Thanks a ton for all of these. I have my first 50k next week and all during training I have been takin in your tips. BTW, I love how “blessing out of our butts” is the default difficulty in this one :)
Good luck out there! You got this :)
ps: no refunds :P
Thank you! Excellent video and tips as always. Many people share their DNF experience here, will do so too as my first DNF happened exactly the day the video out :D For me this DNF didn't feel like a complete failure, I learned a lot definitely. But I was quite naive to assume that I can manage to perform well on 1500 m while I never trained on > 100 m. I was exhausted up there, slippery weather and mud, fell on rocks many times, was extremely slow, thankfully didn't injured myself and now ready to take next challenges this season. When I made it down to < 500 m surprisingly I felt great again but it was too late for the cut-off time, so my 48K ended after 31K. That was Stranda Fjord Trail Race in Norway if someone is interested. My attempt to push my limits way too hard, although it is a very valuable experience indeed.
Thanks for sharing! Ha people are jumping ahead here, because I'll actually be asking to share those in my next(ish) video which will be about how to deal and grow from a DNF. Glad you didn't get injured! ANd i can totally relate to the altitude thing. I'm in Leadville now, and whenever I climb, it feels like I'm soooo out of shape. But as soon as I come down, I'm fresh like chocolate ice cream
I did my first long walk yesterday and thinking about your videos really helped push me through to the finish!
Awesome!
I always have a coupe of friends in a what’s app group that are “on call”. They know my WHY and we have talked about how to respond if I get in touch and talk about quiting. They know what to say and I know I can count on them to help me get my head back in the game.
Oh that's nice - seems like you have some very good friends!
I thought DNF meant “did not first” (this race) 😅 jk jk
Do Not Fart
Excellent video Simon! Thanks a lot!
You're welcome