I want Hop to try the VHS-2 because he is so angry about it and because his father James Reeves likes it. And when Hop suffers, we all receive phenomenal content.
@@mghegotagun splendid. I tried it in a store on like three separate occasions and it just.... Felt awful every time. Maybe my point of reference being a relatively nice AR ruins it but like... Dude it's so much worse. The trigger sucks, the weight isn't even that far rearward, I am lanky and its LOP feels immaculate for me. But that's with the stock all the way in lol. So much of it feels like I'm holding a prototype. The worst part is I wanted one not because "cool guntubers say this gun is gud" I wanted it because IT WAS THE COOLEST GUN IN INSURGENCY SANDSTORM FOR YEARS AAAAAAAA
I know the bone stock standard aug sucks. But I would love to see one of you get a hold of one and deck it out in aftermarket stuff similar to how hop did the ptr91. The aftermarket for the aug is getting crazy especially with manufactures like arid, heresy, and rat worx.
There are also smaller companies like silver star shooting sports making side rails that don't suck. You can get pretty much everything you need by replacing the useless 45° rail with a 90° rail instead. You can get the fancy replacement handguards and everything but that gets expensive fast.
I think you guys should give the AUG another shot. I know hop thinks its difficult/expensive to modernize but there are some more after market options coming out. One interesting one is the Underworld Arms mlok handguard. I for one am happy to be a caveman and just get one 90 degree offset rail for my light and attach a light switch to the standard vert grip but for those who insist on an extended mlock hand guard the options seem to be opening up. There is the puzzle for getting it set up for night vision which Im too poor for at the moment but I have a few ideas to work with the top rail or my offset SSshootingsports rail. Edit: And of course Im a dipshit and didnt wait until I completely finished the video and didnt notice where Brassfacts mentions he thinks he has an Aug coming up. I apologize
Very interesting video. For the MDRx, you may want to look at the available resources. There has been a lot of work done by the community figuring out the issues of the Rifle. This includes the following: Plastic Handguard doesn't hold zero, Trunnion Screws Loosen and need to be checked every time it is cleaned (New maintenance instructions from OEM in 2023), The 308 Barrel Assembly accuracy is poor (6.5 is better), You can convert a Side Eject Chassis to a Forward Eject to take the 308 kits, there are aftermarket Side Eject Kits for the Forward Eject Chassis. There are a bunch of details on it on the Desert Tech Subreddit as well as the Ar15 Bullpup forums. There is also also a MDRx info gallery subreddit that details community identified failure modes.
If you’re hoping the 6.5 is better it’s not. At least not that much. It’s like 2.5 MOA with the creed and 3 MOA with 308 in my experience. We were able to get that down to 1.5 MOA (7.62x51) with a couple of prototypes, but DT never released that version.
@@novagroup2 My BlkLbl hand guard holds zero; regarding the accuracy issues in 308, an independent group of subject matter experts conducted an extremely thorough characterization report, pdf easily found on google. TLDR is, the barrel trunnion screws were not installed with the proper loctite, and thus become loose over time (and no indication that DT has addressed this yet). The characterization report has detailed instructions on how to fix that issue. Additionally, that report suggests that, because of dwell design, the 16” 308 barrel actually achieves better accuracy than the 20”. Anyway. Cheers.
@@novagroup2 Have a look for yourself. On the MDRInfoGallery subreddit, the top stickied post is a bunch of user reports of the accuracy in different calibers. There is also a link in the comments to about 60 5 shot group tests from various shooters and ammo types in 308 against 3 barrels (including an aftermarket ES tactical Bull barrels). Some with suppressors some without.
@@SQUANTO6 Have you tried 140 Grain Factory Federal Fusion Hunter for 6.5? The MDRInfoGallery Subreddit has a 0.85 moa 5 shot group, with an image to back it up from the community. Some reload workups that did decent as well. However, compared to 308 there aren't a lot of accuracy posts for it. What do you mean by a couple of Prototypes?
DSA's FAL mags have gotten "better" providing an option for the RFB. I say this as a long time SA58 owner that has had life-long feed issues due to their mags. Currently, their mags are reliable enough that I shoot Ironman class in 2 gun using my FAL.
As a bullpup fanboy I thought your last video was well done as is this one. Have some X95s and your points are valid although I get better than 5moa out of my gun. The Tavor 7 is my favorite though, a better thought out gun and really shines over the X95 in accuracy, features and such. It could use a longer handguard, and loose some weight, but overall an excellent gun.
For civilian use or desert/ urban use yeah but ukrainians said it was horrible in muddy conditions it needed to be dissasembled completely in order to clean it and get it running
@@alexanderp8037That wasn't the Ukrainians, it was Karl on InRange, after he dumped two shovel-fulls of mud down one of the charging handle slots, which fouled the trigger.
I can definitely see the appeal, but every time I look at the damned price tag of night vision, thermals, and then the required accessories like LAMs, I'm left with the question "what will make me better at shooting? This stuff, or the same amount of money spent on ammo?"
Thx to y'all, I went from costly swapping between high-end admit tier LPVOs due to just not having a great experience. To a straight up two and a half by 10 GLX and have never been happier
A3 Tactical is releasing FM-15/BRN-180/JAKL bullpup conversion kits (Triad) that looks pretty solid for what it is, but it's a BYO upper and lower and is $700, so you're already past RDB territory price-wise starting from scratch, and inching close to MDR money. Then again, if you already have a spare milspec lower and one of the compatible uppers, it doesn't burn as much. Which is why I have the FM-15 version on pre-order. :)
Still haven't bought a pup, but every time I do the research with all the pro's and con's, I am still driven to the AUG with an aftermarket trigger and gas plug... Also 300blk barrel are on the way last I heard.
Re: The AUG: "AUG-shaped rifle that is not an AUG" is basically what the Australian military did to get the F88 and F90. In my opinion the only thing the AUG needs for it to fill its role is something like the Manticore Arms rail and fore end. This gives you a longer top rail and an Mlok handguard. Hop himself is on record saying that trigger snobs are dumb. It'll never be an AR trigger but when I first handled an AUG, before I even bought one, I was *stunned* that people complain about it. EDIT: I guess a gas plug too if you're going to run it with a baffle can.
For the Rail, use Claw Gear Mlok Rail. It covers exposed gas port, it extends for better Grip, allows still for barrel removal and is really cheap. For the trigger, you buy a ARID trigger shoe for cheap money, red springs for like 10$ and Metal sear for like 90$
A fun thing to try may be the 20" BLK LBL handguard (maybe the integrated bipod version, even!) on a 16" MDRX with a long, skinny direct-thread can. It looks like one of those tacticool shorty ARs that were popular on Insta some time ago (LVOA uppers, AFAIK), you get maximum rail space and grip real estate and only gain a couple of inches of OAL (if any) for your trouble.
Looking forward to you working with the Tavor 7 and Steyr AUG. I had an AUG. I got used to the trigger, but it could be way better, definitely agree about the exposed gas block and vertical foregrip, but i think steyr may address some of those issues.
Spot on w/ the AUG. I love it, but... bastard's just old. Every upgrade has to kludge its way around some vestigial receiver oddity Steyr came up with 50 years ago (or 5, looking at you A3M1) and never iterated upon. It's absolutely valid to want one, they're cool as hell, but if you buy one as a GPR-style endeavor you'll be slowwwly building it up to par as unobtainium accessories drift in and out of stock. That said, after you get some rounds in with the platform, put in red springs and an ARID trigger, get the light in the right spot, and get a decent brass deflector... you'll do a move-and-shoot with your friend's Aero build and realize you've just turned off hardmode. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
Just finished the first video and came here. Honestly great stuff guys. Myself went with the RDB Defender a few years back on account of the hand guard, pencil barbell, and most importantly, the length of pull as mine has a two position stock and managed to get it right under $1K. Anyway, dont understand any hate you would get from the previous video. These bullpups take some time to master and if youre used to an AR platform, you're basically starting from scratch.
3:45 Up here in Canada, IWI won't convert or headspace an X95 into a left-handed configuration, but they will happily sell you the bolt. I've never even heard of anyone getting a gunsmith to do it either; the consensus seems to be that you just drop in the new bolt and run it. I've also never heard of anyone having headspace issues either.
When I did LH conversion on SAR. I simply went the route of buying their barrel & bolt kit when it was on sale to avoid headache of sending in their bullpup. Now I have the 18" barrel installed, (which I should of got in the first place) and a spare 16" barrel on hand.
Yes the Tavor 7 is like the perfect version of the tavor, it is basically all of the critiques of the X95 fixed. Now if only they’d update the 5.56 tavor into the tavor 7 level.
You mentioned one problem was nowhere to mount lasers. Have y’all considered the GBRS mount? Don’t really know anything about it other than what it looks like. No bull pup experience. Keep up the hard work y’all. Appreciate the what y’all do.
But but the higher the better for ergonomic shooting!!!! I’m in no position to make fun of the hydra mount, my AEMS on Unity Fast riser is 4.75” above bore on mg X95 😂
I love the ergonomics of the AUG, it's one of those guns that just feels right on shouldering. However I agree 100 percent about the trigger being unrecoverable garbage, funny anecdote the fist time i borrowed an AUG I had previously been shooting an AR with a timney drop in and seriously thought the trigger was broken on the AUG since I was pulling 10x harder and not getting a bang.
Currently testing the Steyr Aug with a Corvis Defenso extended rail and the Clawgear hand guard. Unfortunately they are not compatible because the combo would have been perfect. The ideal configuration may be the rail/handguard designs ARID and Steyr (Austria) are working on.
the MAWL would be great on the RDB, it perfectly clears the charging handle. it would be simple enough to mount a scout light underneath it on the mlok handguard. or you could just get a better red dot and keep passive aiming only so the rifle stays light & handy.
Yeah, MDRX as 308 Win please. I run mine with an overbarrel can and the long handguard. Shorter and more weight further back. And it looks AWESOME in that config
@@nikos6220 I would agree..except..I personally shot several match load (2) 5 shot groups at 100 yards..it was damn hard to get under 2 moa..My untuned handload came in a 1.7moa (4 of those shots at 0.8moa)
@@Odinforever2000 I might just be lucky and got really good specimen. Based on the testing I have seen most find a commercial ammo between 1-2 MOA. Plus, not saying you did something wrong, a lot of the testing for groups you see on TH-cam and on the range let’s say is not conducive to maximum precision 😂 (no rest in the back, crap shooting position, very low magnification, …)
I've had a Tavor 7 for about 5 years. Only a couple thousand rounds through it. Mostly used it with night vision and suppressed for hunting hogs in TX. Heavy setup, but still balanced with everything on it. 1.5-2 moa with 168 grain gold metal match. 2-3 moa with most hunting ammo. Reliable after adjusting the gas. It can kill certain scope similar to a SCAR. Overall, great battle rifle.
I'm running low light training classes all week this week. Whenever possible, I've been putting my Noveske N4 to the side and running a Hellion. The stability issue is a real thing, but I feel like some more time behind the rifle will let me work through that. The trigger is a mush fest, though I think it's better than the AUG. The Styer is more crisp, but damn it's heavy. I'm really liking the Hellion. The LOP isn't an issue for me and I'm even getting used to the safety. I'll never be able to reload it as fast as an AR, but it's fast enough. I hope one of you gives it a try.
It's unfortunate to hear you don't want to T&E the RFB. It's a great platform as far as bullpups go. I would like to see them release a version that uses AR10 Patterned mags, though. Been running an 18" RFB for about 10ish years now. It runs great, not ammo finicky, handles well and suppresses well. Keltec gets picked on a lot in the gun community, and sure, it's warranted on some of their designs. But they did do the RFB correctly IMO and I've got many years of heavy use with mine that makes me feel validated in my opinion on them. Would have been cool to see you gents provide your impressions about it as well.
Absolutely love my Tavor 7 with an OSS can on it. Running Eotech with a magnifier on it right now, for the future day I can afford NV goggles. Beware the blast if you have just a muzzle brake on it...
Serving in the Austrian military right now and how hop described the downsides to the aug is spot on😂 As much as I love this thing i have to admit it’s shit😅🫠 Well done video boiz!
@@LaputanMachadsadly the majority don’t have them anymore😢 We have the “Tarnanzug Neu” now, it’s inspired by multicam but it doesn’t look like it at all in my opinion. Although the camo is pretty good in our Woods, the Austrian Army has patented the camo and the production quality of the uniforms are pretty bad. I’ve already ripped 4 of the pants just by kneeling down. The OD uniforms came in pretty handy, because we could wear pants from uf pro, etc.
@@NathanMiller-hv1lg I guess that replacement is why I've been able to get my hands on so many surplus units lately. Sad to hear the quality on the new ones is bad, the OD's always impressed me with their build quality. More substantial than German stuff, lighter and less rigid than Swiss. Goldilocks zone of fabrics imo.
Coming from an AUG owner, the poop trigger observation is warranted, but I'll say it definitely wasn't as bad as I expected and you can absolutely get used to it. The foregrip placement is absolutely fine for me, but I can see it being an issue with people who wanna C-clamp the front end or something. The barrel change is actually becoming more relevant again with their planned 300 BLK barrels so we'll see what becomes of that and how fast they get scooped up when they drop. Despite all that, I actually really like my AUG, it's a pretty handy package when you get used to the quirks.
Another excellent video. I know the RFB uses FAL mags...Thats what was common when that gun was made..But..I think those mags are doing alot better these days and DSArms still makes em. Some of the Polymer mags arent bad either..but I really wish Lancer or Magpul would make Fal mags...Still gonna ask you try the RFB if you both decide on 308 bullpups (theres only 4). I wish you the best with the 308 MDRX..I was only able to get it under 2moa with a couple of factory match loads (that was vs my RFB with the exact same ammo on the same day 5 shot groups).. But if 2 Moa is ok, then you will have a blast.. It kicks more than the RFB and probably more than the Tavor 7 due to needing the extra gas to actuate the scissor/ejector mechanism. Its actually lighter than the Forward Eject 223 Mdrx.
Love my X95. Great gun. With a flow through can it’s not bad. The accuracy with mine isn’t bad and with 75 grain AAC is pretty good plus it’s rail spots on the hand guard wouldn’t loose zero I’m guessing for night vision stuff. Idk imo. Im not down talking the mdrx. I would like to have one but you should try the tavor. I also have a tavor 7. Great gun. Love the bull pup videos. Thanks
What’s funny is your dialogue and reasoning is why I watch your 30min videos to get full context for reasoning, logic, and tradeoffs, because most of it is pretty useful for building or understanding my own preferences
I only own Bullpup rifles, because when I joined the 2A community in June of 2021, I wanted to learn & train on a system that was as compact as possible, to improve mobility (also the FN2000 in CoD MW2 was my favorite firearm in that game)
Ill prefece this with i live in canada so our options are limited. But i bought my tavor 7 for 3700 and its by far my favorite gun to shoot by far, with norinco 308 i still average 3 inches at 100m. And while my set up woth LPVO, light, and foregrip its twelve pounds, but with all that wieght in the back its such a fun gun to run and gun with. If its too heavy, just lift harder
PSA just needs to make a Bullpup that will also be bad but at least endearingly so, then we'll finally still not have a bullpup that's comparable to contemporary designs. lol. Keep stuff coming, love this channel regardless of gun or game content.
I just picked up the Tavor 7. Snagged a few Manticore Arms additions as well. With those minor adjustments, it is honestly quite an enjoyable weapon system. $1,999.99 MSRP. Grabbed an Eotech EXPS as well for it.
You can make the aug trigger infinitely better for free, all it takes is an adjustment of the trigger bar you can do in about a minute! Just trying to help him out since he has one coming his way. Id say that, an underworld arms mlock handguard, and a brass deflector from ARID might be all you really need on a base level to improve the gun.
I guess I'm one of the few who watches longform videos to learn and understand different perspectives that take some time to develop in a presentation.
Man I i wish you could try a built up AUG, love mine after the upgrades cause its terrible stock. Ratworx, ARID, red springs, and trigger tamer reduce the trigger weight to an insane degree.
@@alexanderp8037define horrible, because when I hear horrible I’m thinking 10-15lb triggers like the gen1 Tavor before they fixed it in the later models.
Hop, You're gonna wanna switch that KT OEM handguard out for a Lucky Irishman. Make sure the front screws in the rail are loctited. It stiffens the front end up a LOT and really helps with POI shift on that POS... There is a guy teasing a very expensive free float rail system for the RDB as well.. but it's on preorder..... so, we'll see how that goes. MCarbo trigger spring is nice too. The Lucky Irishman bolt release thing looks ghetto but is nice too. I don't know much about the HAGA stuff, Haven't really decided I need any of it yet.. Also, IDK about your rifle but call KT and give them your model number and ask them if there have been internal updates. Keep an eye on SENEX arms, they will probably be the bullpup king in the future.
My wish was that you'd try the VHS-2, but your counter argument to getting one was that kitting it out with lasers and lights would be a challenge, which is totally fair. I own a VHS-2 and it's true. My current solution is a Olight Odin mounted to the pic rail at the top all the way forward and mounting a small pic rail section for the switch on the side of the handguard. Definitely sub optimal as this runs the wire to the side of the charging handle which means you can't really use it anymore on the side where you put the wire and it's no longer 100% ambi, minor inconvenience. I might experiment with a full size vertical grip to free up some rail space and see how that feels.
Coincidentally enough there is such a firearm that is an improved AUG It's made in Australia by Lithgow f90 MBR. They shave about 1 lb off the standard rifle and ditch the quick change barrel system adding a modern top rail and four end for accessories while also making the rifle completely ambidextrous. It's as close to perfect for a bullpup as I've ever seen but of course it's not available here and my balls are still recovering from blueness that occurred around 2018 I believe when they announce that shot show they were going to begin the groundwork for importation unfortunately there was one of those shoot them up scenarios that happened and they canceled all the plans without any updates for potential customers
Loaning your rifle is like loaning your girlfriend. Sure, you can do it, but just kinda shows how you feel about it. Lets borrow from Nutn again, bulpups are second cool. They don't really do anything a regular rifle doesn't already do, but they look really cool, and maybe they have some neat attributes. Truth be told, I like the looks of the RDB, would I buy one? Probably not. Watching the video of you guys shoot these things, it's noticeable how often you shift your position while shooting due to hot brass landing in places you find uncomfortable. I think this might be the single biggest issue with a bulpup. That said, I appreciate the continued thinking on this matter. These debates are mere video essays to further drive thinking further.
Arfcom and reddit have threads on AUG stocks cracking. It's a pattern failure in batches made post 2020. Evidently, they changed their polymer from what they'd been using for the last 45 years, and it isn't holding up. It seems like they could just go back to their old formulation, and, for all I know, they have. There's still some of those floating around the market, though, so it's just something to be aware of. Last I heard, Steyr was stepping up and fixing those rifles, so it's most likely an annoyance and nothing more. It's just something to be aware of if you pick one up. They are cracking near the ejection port and / or the rear takedown pin.
Grab an Blklbl ALX or Mantis handguard for the MDRX. Deals with the zero issue and is a ton more rigid. Plus you get a built in bipod with the latter. And a VFG for bracing easier. Really all you need to do for it.
The line about “drawing the Tavor and then figuring out how to fit a gun in it” was also said by Ian at Forgotten Weapons talking about the Vektor CR-21, so that may be just the internet reusing a joke. Also, I did fiddle with the trigger on my AUG, and while it cleaned up the pull quite a bit, it also made it less reliable. I’d get failures to reset and had zero faith that it would be drop safe, so I went back to the factory trigger almost out of necessity. Still like my VHS, though.
The removable barrel also allows better cleaning and if there is a double feed that is quite annoying to clear, taking the pressure off by taking the barrel out makes it easy. There is a reason why the Aussies still use it and the 9-hole guys hit out to 800 yards. Sadly it seems that the quality isn't as good as it was like no longer having the chromed barrel in what is sold in the US. With the right gas cylinder it handles a can and with the rail on the right laizor & IR is vertical on there and have fun with the cables. The removable barrel is also used to have different lengths so it can be ultra short or with 20'' it is the length of a 12.5 AR with full velocity the .223 craves. Lots of upgrades are unsafe, but mostly those that try to mess with the weight of the trigger, it has to be light like a 1911 trigger or it doesn't like impacts. The front grip is a choice, but you can make it work quite well if you know how to use it. Get the gloved hand a bit sticking out the end and rest on fence/table/rock etc. You can make small adjustments to the elevation by changing the grip pressure. The Aussies are known for getting easy headshots that way. They also run with dry lube on the trigger pack and nothing else if it has to be used in the cold or heat. It was made to be used in the alps with mittens and it can be disassembled with mittens too. As a lefty you might want to try the swat config with the grip further back. It also helps to visit the AUG academy for a lesson. Having the A3, M1, swat the F88/F90 out there shows it can be modernized and effectively used. I hope the Tavor experiment goes well and nothing breaks. @brassfacts If you get your AUG, make sure to read the manual and look at the old aussie break down video. Push the pin in first to release the buttplate, move it away, then pull out the pin. Adjusting the pre-travel is easy. I wonder if your barrel is chromed or nitrided. The reason in Die Hard might be to lacking actor training, but it is easy to control one handed. I met a on armed vet that is using an AUG for that reason. It helps that everything works with mittens so a meat mitten does the job.
I actually just picked up a 20 inch hellion. I don’t really do any night vision so I don’t have to worry about lasers. I actually find the hellion really comfortable for me and by sliding the buttplate out two notches it put my cheek at the perfect spot. A lot of people complain about the length of pull on the hellion but I don’t really notice it.
Hop... when you called the AUG "crippled", it gave me an idea. the next bullpup showdown, you should title the video "cripple fight" a la Timmy/Jimmy from South Park
The F90 might be a much better version of the AUG for reasons as mentioned in this video by Hop. Wonder if we'll see any civ legal versions imported in our lifetimes.
When I am looking at a new gun, I get online and see what as many reviewers as I can find have to say about that gun. I just ordered the Desert Tech Wolverine
A3 Tactical Triad. Ive got one coming January hopefully. We'll see hoe it does on my fm15. Looks better than the Reap SCY. Let the negative comments ensue!
Ive been wanting to get a bullpup for the longest time, ive been looking at the AUG, but from listening to your guys last vid, and this followup one, im wondering if an x95 or an mdrx would be better.
Hey, love your content always great shit mate. One question I have as I've been watching ya'll at some of the places you shoot (sick mountain locations btw) -- do ya'll pick up brass out there when you shoot? or how do you manage brass in some of those steep rocky areas? I could imagine the answer might be that it's just not reasonable to do so, but I was wondering about it. Thanks
The reason I like the AUG isn’t because it lends itself to modern shooting, it’s because the damn thing works. Most bullpups have notable reliability issues in my experience. The AUG is annoyingly reliable. I’ll take reliable with wonky ergos and a shit trigger over sexy garbage that doesn’t work.
I would recommend you Hop and you guys to revisit the Hellion in 20" with the magwell and extended bolt catch hook part by Lunartech designs to improve its useability. Also the 18" and 20" model has a slightly better trigger and the longer barrel is a bit better on the balance. And another is the Tavor X95 with the BLKLBL handguard, gieselle trigger upgrade, use the gas buster part add on to keep the gas under control. Lastly is optional, but a Steyr AUG with Underworld arms's new AUG cqc styles handguard, Steyr's red trigger spring kit, ARID trigger shoe and Corvus defensio's shell deflector. The Desert Tech MDRX is a good gun on paper but its riddled with handful of flaws compared to the 3 primary military issue bullpups such as the AUG, X95, and Hellion. Kelltec RDB is affordable, but honestly not as rugged compared to the 3 rifles mentioned above. There is the K&M M17s, upcoming SENEX ARMS, bullpup kit for the AR15/piston based Jakl/Brn180 from A3 Tactical TRIAD kit and the Scy Reaper kit too.
The MDRX as you mentioned, it doesnt hold zero on the handguard. This is why I dont prefer it and the reason is the Gasblock exposed on then top rail is Only the area that holds zero but its also a finger burner point. Desert tech removed this in the latest update but left a cavity hole, which brings use to the option of a Steur aug with the handguard mounted to the barrel or the Hellion with its flat top rail that is more accurate, or lastly the X95 that isnt an accurate platform from the start but has a flat top rail option. Also the MDRX has horrible accuracy with 308 conversion, its scissor bolt design is not robust, the mdrx with the folding handles breaks easy (the newer mdrx fixes this but removed the folding handle). Theres a lot more problems with the MDRX which I do wish you guys did more research than impulse purchase the MDRX. If you want the 308 bullpup, the Tavor 7, K&M M17s 308, and Keltec RFB 308 is your main choice or the oddball M1A Bullpup chasis.
For me personally, I will highly recommend you guys to try the Hellion in the 20" barrel, however you must again follow what I wrote above, the lunartech magwell part and bolt catch enhancement, and ALSO you should change the BCM grip to a 20 degree angle AR15 grip like the Magpul MIAD grip and it will feel much better for the LOP and selector access. The hellion may put your support hand forward, however its intended to put the C-clamp right in front of the charging handle. So you should try to revisit and get your body to get used to it as I know you discount it, but its a gun once you sit down with it longer, your body conforms to it.
In the bullpup video, there's a clip of Hop using the Hellion while describing the issues with mounting nightvision equipment to bullpups. His issues with the hellion have nothing to do with the trigger or the balance or the bolt catch, and everything to do with that FAMAS-esque top rail.
I do strongly believe bullpup configuration is the future (as far as current generation ammunition goes anyway). There just hasn't been one bullpup that fixed all of the gripes people have in one particular model. There hasn't been an AR15 of the bullpup world. Take the latest one being Hellion, which comes close, but has atrocious bolt release and subpart mag release. X95 does really well, but has no way to adjust gas or clean the trigger mechanism. They all have some kind of dumb issue, that others have fixed. Nobody seems to put sufficient effort to close the deal.
I had a bullpup Tavor X95 and got rid of it. It was super gassy and had a lot of recoil while suppressed. It was heavy but balanced, not really ambi swapping shoulders, specially with a beard, will pull the hairs out of your face with the port so close to the face when swapping shoulders. I liked it but not enough to keep it.
i would like to hear what would make a good bulpup. like if the conclusion comes to be to make it as close to an ar15 as possible, maybe just a bullpup lower could be considered.
Certainly helps with my RDB, although the top rail doesn't increase in length which is unfortunate. I did Frankenstein a front buis mount off the end of the mlok handguard using an arisaka scout mount and a riser (and a nail as a shim...) but that is about all I trust it for. Hop isn't wrong about limited LAM mounting options given the relatively short length of the top optics rail.
BF, you can get a kit to convert your SE to FE. its an extra 300-ish bucks on top of the 900+ for the 7.62 kit, but its still cheaper than buying a Tavor 7.
@@novagroup2 I personally still thought it was worth it, I started with the 16" 5.56 FE and got the 20" 7.62 kit later on. Granted, I got a killer deal on the MDRX from a friend. Both barrels are more accurate than me by a longshot.
The Tavor 7 is still shit. I’m moving to Colorado at the end of the month. I’ve offered to bring by my Forward Eject .308 MDRX, which is also in Micron Side Eject config. The only thing I’m missing are the flow-through suppressors you’ve got and the BLK LBL Mantis.
I've always said this, a bullpen is optimal for main use cases, extreme range firearms where you want a fuck load of barrel, and extreme CQB where you want as little gun as possible.
I want Hop to try the VHS-2 because he is so angry about it and because his father James Reeves likes it. And when Hop suffers, we all receive phenomenal content.
agreed. The only thing I could complain about the first video.
Man the VHS just seems so mid from the few times I tried it, I'd rather use an AUG tbh.
@@AlexDenton0451 gunbusters channel ironically just put out a video shitting on the vhs
@@mghegotagun splendid. I tried it in a store on like three separate occasions and it just.... Felt awful every time. Maybe my point of reference being a relatively nice AR ruins it but like... Dude it's so much worse. The trigger sucks, the weight isn't even that far rearward, I am lanky and its LOP feels immaculate for me. But that's with the stock all the way in lol. So much of it feels like I'm holding a prototype. The worst part is I wanted one not because "cool guntubers say this gun is gud" I wanted it because IT WAS THE COOLEST GUN IN INSURGENCY SANDSTORM FOR YEARS AAAAAAAA
Isn't that just a hellian without the Springfield logo? We all know new guns from Springfield are coming put of Croatia.
New subscriber here, glad to see Ellen is still making content, although I never thought she was into guns
You're gonna fit in here just fine.
Are you talking about Brock, because Hop looks like he's a refugee from a LPGA league with a Subaru dealership.
@@zedhiro6131or regular jeeps lmfao
it is into children
Only when she hikes with pseudo Pedro Pascal
Hop just hates the AUG because James loves it.
The aug is a million times better than the two guns they chose
He already said it so, don't wanna back peddle
AUG failed dramatically in the inrange TV mud test
@@alexanderp8037 A lot of guns do, doesn't mean I'll avoid all of em because of it.
@@alexanderp8037 Your mom failed a whole bunch of my tests, she's still rad though, dunno how she ended up with such a disappointing offspring
I know the bone stock standard aug sucks. But I would love to see one of you get a hold of one and deck it out in aftermarket stuff similar to how hop did the ptr91. The aftermarket for the aug is getting crazy especially with manufactures like arid, heresy, and rat worx.
Standard aug is awesome
@@puffersays9155for real.
Corvis Defenso and Clawgear too, though the latter is incredibly rare and difficult to get.
F90 civilian version of the AUG with the ADF setup (F88 Enhanced) of Elcan 1-4x, an/peq-16B and Grip Pod is what I wanna see Hop try out.
There are also smaller companies like silver star shooting sports making side rails that don't suck. You can get pretty much everything you need by replacing the useless 45° rail with a 90° rail instead.
You can get the fancy replacement handguards and everything but that gets expensive fast.
I think you guys should give the AUG another shot. I know hop thinks its difficult/expensive to modernize but there are some more after market options coming out. One interesting one is the Underworld Arms mlok handguard.
I for one am happy to be a caveman and just get one 90 degree offset rail for my light and attach a light switch to the standard vert grip but for those who insist on an extended mlock hand guard the options seem to be opening up. There is the puzzle for getting it set up for night vision which Im too poor for at the moment but I have a few ideas to work with the top rail or my offset SSshootingsports rail.
Edit: And of course Im a dipshit and didnt wait until I completely finished the video and didnt notice where Brassfacts mentions he thinks he has an Aug coming up. I apologize
Go for the EF88 or F90 upgrade
@@alexanderp8037I wish they would import them. They blueballed us so hard.
All my research on bullpups, drives me to the aug every time.
@@daniels1532it means you did a good Research then
Modernizing Aug isnt really expensive or hard let's be honest. Front and brass deflector
Very interesting video.
For the MDRx, you may want to look at the available resources. There has been a lot of work done by the community figuring out the issues of the Rifle.
This includes the following: Plastic Handguard doesn't hold zero, Trunnion Screws Loosen and need to be checked every time it is cleaned (New maintenance instructions from OEM in 2023), The 308 Barrel Assembly accuracy is poor (6.5 is better), You can convert a Side Eject Chassis to a Forward Eject to take the 308 kits, there are aftermarket Side Eject Kits for the Forward Eject Chassis.
There are a bunch of details on it on the Desert Tech Subreddit as well as the Ar15 Bullpup forums. There is also also a MDRx info gallery subreddit that details community identified failure modes.
it seems the metal ones dont really hold zero either. But yeah Ill give that stuff a look.
Is the 308 assembly really bad ? Damn that sucks.
If you’re hoping the 6.5 is better it’s not. At least not that much. It’s like 2.5 MOA with the creed and 3 MOA with 308 in my experience. We were able to get that down to 1.5 MOA (7.62x51) with a couple of prototypes, but DT never released that version.
@@novagroup2 My BlkLbl hand guard holds zero; regarding the accuracy issues in 308, an independent group of subject matter experts conducted an extremely thorough characterization report, pdf easily found on google. TLDR is, the barrel trunnion screws were not installed with the proper loctite, and thus become loose over time (and no indication that DT has addressed this yet). The characterization report has detailed instructions on how to fix that issue. Additionally, that report suggests that, because of dwell design, the 16” 308 barrel actually achieves better accuracy than the 20”.
Anyway. Cheers.
@@novagroup2 Have a look for yourself. On the MDRInfoGallery subreddit, the top stickied post is a bunch of user reports of the accuracy in different calibers.
There is also a link in the comments to about 60 5 shot group tests from various shooters and ammo types in 308 against 3 barrels (including an aftermarket ES tactical Bull barrels). Some with suppressors some without.
@@SQUANTO6 Have you tried 140 Grain Factory Federal Fusion Hunter for 6.5? The MDRInfoGallery Subreddit has a 0.85 moa 5 shot group, with an image to back it up from the community. Some reload workups that did decent as well. However, compared to 308 there aren't a lot of accuracy posts for it.
What do you mean by a couple of Prototypes?
A big selling point of the Steyr AUG was that it had durable polymer mags 30 years before Magpul
also looks like space gun
That makes no sense unless you already own a horde of those mags.
@@maxout214226 they're not that expensive and they blow ar mags out of the water.
@@maxout214226 if you never held one, I recommend you. They are abaolutely tankish. They are great and magpul makes mags for aug as well
42 rounders more specifically of interest
DSA's FAL mags have gotten "better" providing an option for the RFB. I say this as a long time SA58 owner that has had life-long feed issues due to their mags. Currently, their mags are reliable enough that I shoot Ironman class in 2 gun using my FAL.
308 bullpup vid might be a good follow up vid for them.
As a bullpup fanboy I thought your last video was well done as is this one. Have some X95s and your points are valid although I get better than 5moa out of my gun. The Tavor 7 is my favorite though, a better thought out gun and really shines over the X95 in accuracy, features and such. It could use a longer handguard, and loose some weight, but overall an excellent gun.
For civilian use or desert/ urban use yeah but ukrainians said it was horrible in muddy conditions it needed to be dissasembled completely in order to clean it and get it running
@@alexanderp8037 never heard that. Do you have a source to back that claim up?
@@alexanderp8037 never seen ukranians use any form of the tavor
@@alexanderp8037 I've never seen any Ukrainians asked about shit. Please show us some proof. I am interested.
@@alexanderp8037That wasn't the Ukrainians, it was Karl on InRange, after he dumped two shovel-fulls of mud down one of the charging handle slots, which fouled the trigger.
I don't have NV and don't plan to anytime soon. Still enjoy that you guys include NV use in your reviews.
I can definitely see the appeal, but every time I look at the damned price tag of night vision, thermals, and then the required accessories like LAMs, I'm left with the question "what will make me better at shooting? This stuff, or the same amount of money spent on ammo?"
Thx to y'all, I went from costly swapping between high-end admit tier LPVOs due to just not having a great experience. To a straight up two and a half by 10 GLX and have never been happier
A3 Tactical is releasing FM-15/BRN-180/JAKL bullpup conversion kits (Triad) that looks pretty solid for what it is, but it's a BYO upper and lower and is $700, so you're already past RDB territory price-wise starting from scratch, and inching close to MDR money.
Then again, if you already have a spare milspec lower and one of the compatible uppers, it doesn't burn as much. Which is why I have the FM-15 version on pre-order. :)
Still haven't bought a pup, but every time I do the research with all the pro's and con's, I am still driven to the AUG with an aftermarket trigger and gas plug... Also 300blk barrel are on the way last I heard.
I’m an old Army Grunt, 8 yrs, 2 combat tours. I made the Tavor 7 my battle rifle last year. LPVO and 45* RMR. Love it.
Re: The AUG:
"AUG-shaped rifle that is not an AUG" is basically what the Australian military did to get the F88 and F90.
In my opinion the only thing the AUG needs for it to fill its role is something like the Manticore Arms rail and fore end. This gives you a longer top rail and an Mlok handguard. Hop himself is on record saying that trigger snobs are dumb. It'll never be an AR trigger but when I first handled an AUG, before I even bought one, I was *stunned* that people complain about it.
EDIT: I guess a gas plug too if you're going to run it with a baffle can.
For the Rail, use Claw Gear Mlok Rail. It covers exposed gas port, it extends for better Grip, allows still for barrel removal and is really cheap. For the trigger, you buy a ARID trigger shoe for cheap money, red springs for like 10$ and Metal sear for like 90$
A fun thing to try may be the 20" BLK LBL handguard (maybe the integrated bipod version, even!) on a 16" MDRX with a long, skinny direct-thread can. It looks like one of those tacticool shorty ARs that were popular on Insta some time ago (LVOA uppers, AFAIK), you get maximum rail space and grip real estate and only gain a couple of inches of OAL (if any) for your trouble.
Looking forward to you working with the Tavor 7 and Steyr AUG. I had an AUG. I got used to the trigger, but it could be way better, definitely agree about the exposed gas block and vertical foregrip, but i think steyr may address some of those issues.
Spot on w/ the AUG. I love it, but... bastard's just old. Every upgrade has to kludge its way around some vestigial receiver oddity Steyr came up with 50 years ago (or 5, looking at you A3M1) and never iterated upon. It's absolutely valid to want one, they're cool as hell, but if you buy one as a GPR-style endeavor you'll be slowwwly building it up to par as unobtainium accessories drift in and out of stock.
That said, after you get some rounds in with the platform, put in red springs and an ARID trigger, get the light in the right spot, and get a decent brass deflector... you'll do a move-and-shoot with your friend's Aero build and realize you've just turned off hardmode. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
A “Tavor 7 is the best battle rifle for 2024” video is inevitable.
Its a bit of a bummer that the famas never had a civilian counterpart. Having "used" airsoft replicas it was nice and id like to try a real one out
It did have a semi auto civilian version, few were imported into the US before certain restrictions came into effect though.
FAMAS is a very comfortable rifle but not the best bullpup even a 900 $ keltek RDB is better than FAMAS
There also a famas G2 sniper variant without handle on top with 20' barrel
Just finished the first video and came here. Honestly great stuff guys. Myself went with the RDB Defender a few years back on account of the hand guard, pencil barbell, and most importantly, the length of pull as mine has a two position stock and managed to get it right under $1K. Anyway, dont understand any hate you would get from the previous video. These bullpups take some time to master and if youre used to an AR platform, you're basically starting from scratch.
I love my Aug and happy that there is a lot of aftermarket parts coming out for it.
3:45 Up here in Canada, IWI won't convert or headspace an X95 into a left-handed configuration, but they will happily sell you the bolt. I've never even heard of anyone getting a gunsmith to do it either; the consensus seems to be that you just drop in the new bolt and run it. I've also never heard of anyone having headspace issues either.
When I did LH conversion on SAR. I simply went the route of buying their barrel & bolt kit when it was on sale to avoid headache of sending in their bullpup. Now I have the 18" barrel installed, (which I should of got in the first place) and a spare 16" barrel on hand.
Yes the Tavor 7 is like the perfect version of the tavor, it is basically all of the critiques of the X95 fixed. Now if only they’d update the 5.56 tavor into the tavor 7 level.
I think they will in a few years, but the current conflict delayed it a few more now. So like 6ish years is my bet
@@thevictorianconservative1093 I keep holdin out hope for it. When the tavor 7 came out I had hoped they were gonna do a 5.56 and .308 version.
You mentioned one problem was nowhere to mount lasers. Have y’all considered the GBRS mount? Don’t really know anything about it other than what it looks like. No bull pup experience. Keep up the hard work y’all. Appreciate the what y’all do.
yes sorta, but the issue is I dont really care for optic ride height being that high.
But but the higher the better for ergonomic shooting!!!! I’m in no position to make fun of the hydra mount, my AEMS on Unity Fast riser is 4.75” above bore on mg X95 😂
Imagine the GBRS on a VHS-2 lol
That’d be comical height over bore
I love the ergonomics of the AUG, it's one of those guns that just feels right on shouldering. However I agree 100 percent about the trigger being unrecoverable garbage, funny anecdote the fist time i borrowed an AUG I had previously been shooting an AR with a timney drop in and seriously thought the trigger was broken on the AUG since I was pulling 10x harder and not getting a bang.
Currently testing the Steyr Aug with a Corvis Defenso extended rail and the Clawgear hand guard. Unfortunately they are not compatible because the combo would have been perfect. The ideal configuration may be the rail/handguard designs ARID and Steyr (Austria) are working on.
the MAWL would be great on the RDB, it perfectly clears the charging handle. it would be simple enough to mount a scout light underneath it on the mlok handguard. or you could just get a better red dot and keep passive aiming only so the rifle stays light & handy.
Yeah, MDRX as 308 Win please. I run mine with an overbarrel can and the long handguard. Shorter and more weight further back. And it looks AWESOME in that config
But 308 mdr accuracy is poopoo unless you get aftermarket barrel.
@@ghost101049 I think that is more a function of garbage ammo. 1 MOA with Barnes 130 TTSX. Sub MOA with my handloads
@@nikos6220I agree. Hand loading can really tighten up the groups on the 308 MDR.
@@nikos6220 I would agree..except..I personally shot several match load (2) 5 shot groups at 100 yards..it was damn hard to get under 2 moa..My untuned handload came in a 1.7moa (4 of those shots at 0.8moa)
@@Odinforever2000 I might just be lucky and got really good specimen. Based on the testing I have seen most find a commercial ammo between 1-2 MOA. Plus, not saying you did something wrong, a lot of the testing for groups you see on TH-cam and on the range let’s say is not conducive to maximum precision 😂 (no rest in the back, crap shooting position, very low magnification, …)
I've had a Tavor 7 for about 5 years. Only a couple thousand rounds through it. Mostly used it with night vision and suppressed for hunting hogs in TX. Heavy setup, but still balanced with everything on it. 1.5-2 moa with 168 grain gold metal match. 2-3 moa with most hunting ammo. Reliable after adjusting the gas. It can kill certain scope similar to a SCAR. Overall, great battle rifle.
Love the tavor 7
I'm running low light training classes all week this week. Whenever possible, I've been putting my Noveske N4 to the side and running a Hellion. The stability issue is a real thing, but I feel like some more time behind the rifle will let me work through that. The trigger is a mush fest, though I think it's better than the AUG. The Styer is more crisp, but damn it's heavy. I'm really liking the Hellion. The LOP isn't an issue for me and I'm even getting used to the safety. I'll never be able to reload it as fast as an AR, but it's fast enough. I hope one of you gives it a try.
It's unfortunate to hear you don't want to T&E the RFB. It's a great platform as far as bullpups go.
I would like to see them release a version that uses AR10 Patterned mags, though. Been running an 18" RFB for about 10ish years now. It runs great, not ammo finicky, handles well and suppresses well. Keltec gets picked on a lot in the gun community, and sure, it's warranted on some of their designs. But they did do the RFB correctly IMO and I've got many years of heavy use with mine that makes me feel validated in my opinion on them. Would have been cool to see you gents provide your impressions about it as well.
hop im going to buy a scy converson kit so you dont have to i owe it to the channel for all the years of content you guys have provided.
Absolutely love my Tavor 7 with an OSS can on it. Running Eotech with a magnifier on it right now, for the future day I can afford NV goggles. Beware the blast if you have just a muzzle brake on it...
I don’t really like Bullpups, but I do ABSOLUTELY want a Desert Tech. For some reason it ticks all the boxes for me.
Serving in the Austrian military right now and how hop described the downsides to the aug is spot on😂
As much as I love this thing i have to admit it’s shit😅🫠
Well done video boiz!
Austrian spotted, I love your military's OD uniforms
@@LaputanMachadsadly the majority don’t have them anymore😢
We have the “Tarnanzug Neu” now, it’s inspired by multicam but it doesn’t look like it at all in my opinion. Although the camo is pretty good in our Woods, the Austrian Army has patented the camo and the production quality of the uniforms are pretty bad. I’ve already ripped 4 of the pants just by kneeling down. The OD uniforms came in pretty handy, because we could wear pants from uf pro, etc.
@@NathanMiller-hv1lg I guess that replacement is why I've been able to get my hands on so many surplus units lately. Sad to hear the quality on the new ones is bad, the OD's always impressed me with their build quality. More substantial than German stuff, lighter and less rigid than Swiss. Goldilocks zone of fabrics imo.
@@LaputanMachad yeah the old one was pretty neat!
Coming from an AUG owner, the poop trigger observation is warranted, but I'll say it definitely wasn't as bad as I expected and you can absolutely get used to it. The foregrip placement is absolutely fine for me, but I can see it being an issue with people who wanna C-clamp the front end or something. The barrel change is actually becoming more relevant again with their planned 300 BLK barrels so we'll see what becomes of that and how fast they get scooped up when they drop. Despite all that, I actually really like my AUG, it's a pretty handy package when you get used to the quirks.
Rockin the Orville Wright gloves
Another excellent video.
I know the RFB uses FAL mags...Thats what was common when that gun was made..But..I think those mags are doing alot better these days and DSArms still makes em. Some of the Polymer mags arent bad either..but I really wish Lancer or Magpul would make Fal mags...Still gonna ask you try the RFB if you both decide on 308 bullpups (theres only 4).
I wish you the best with the 308 MDRX..I was only able to get it under 2moa with a couple of factory match loads (that was vs my RFB with the exact same ammo on the same day 5 shot groups).. But if 2 Moa is ok, then you will have a blast.. It kicks more than the RFB and probably more than the Tavor 7 due to needing the extra gas to actuate the scissor/ejector mechanism. Its actually lighter than the Forward Eject 223 Mdrx.
Huh, yeah I guess there are only 4 big boi bullpups.
RFB, M17S, MDRx, and Tavor 7.
@@sgtkasi I need 2 more to have the full set LOL
I’d love to see a take on some of the FM15 upper based bulpup conversions
Love my X95. Great gun. With a flow through can it’s not bad. The accuracy with mine isn’t bad and with 75 grain AAC is pretty good plus it’s rail spots on the hand guard wouldn’t loose zero I’m guessing for night vision stuff. Idk imo. Im not down talking the mdrx. I would like to have one but you should try the tavor. I also have a tavor 7. Great gun. Love the bull pup videos. Thanks
by the way after you're done with the RDB you should do the RFB next. its literally a backwards fal I can't stress that enough.
Its..about as much Fal as the MDRX is an AR180
What’s funny is your dialogue and reasoning is why I watch your 30min videos to get full context for reasoning, logic, and tradeoffs, because most of it is pretty useful for building or understanding my own preferences
"What's the Bruce Willis movie?". I just died inside.
I only own Bullpup rifles, because when I joined the 2A community in June of 2021, I wanted to learn & train on a system that was as compact as possible, to improve mobility (also the FN2000 in CoD MW2 was my favorite firearm in that game)
To me personally a 20 inch 556 MDRX with a blk lbl rail and a suppressor is the current king of modern bullpups
I love my Tavor 7! I’d buy an x95 if it had the same features as the Tavor 7.
AUG vibes counter every bad point
Blk lbl handguard is amazing got one on my x95 your going to like it
Great follow-up!
Ill prefece this with i live in canada so our options are limited. But i bought my tavor 7 for 3700 and its by far my favorite gun to shoot by far, with norinco 308 i still average 3 inches at 100m. And while my set up woth LPVO, light, and foregrip its twelve pounds, but with all that wieght in the back its such a fun gun to run and gun with. If its too heavy, just lift harder
PSA just needs to make a Bullpup that will also be bad but at least endearingly so, then we'll finally still not have a bullpup that's comparable to contemporary designs. lol. Keep stuff coming, love this channel regardless of gun or game content.
I just picked up the Tavor 7. Snagged a few Manticore Arms additions as well. With those minor adjustments, it is honestly quite an enjoyable weapon system. $1,999.99 MSRP. Grabbed an Eotech EXPS as well for it.
You can make the aug trigger infinitely better for free, all it takes is an adjustment of the trigger bar you can do in about a minute! Just trying to help him out since he has one coming his way. Id say that, an underworld arms mlock handguard, and a brass deflector from ARID might be all you really need on a base level to improve the gun.
I guess I'm one of the few who watches longform videos to learn and understand different perspectives that take some time to develop in a presentation.
I love my X95 SBR. In spite of everything.
C’mon Hop… just ask James nicely and I’m sure he’ll let you borrow his AUG
If Steyr "modernized" the AUG i feel like it would end up looking like an updated version of their ACR gun from way back.
Man I i wish you could try a built up AUG, love mine after the upgrades cause its terrible stock. Ratworx, ARID, red springs, and trigger tamer reduce the trigger weight to an insane degree.
Well I'm a lefty and I've had my Hellion for over a year now and it's been great. And it's also more accurate than any other bullpup I've shot.
yeah that's a upside, one of the few freefloated bullpups
Helion got a horrible trigger group other than that its a very accurate. The long stroke bolt carrier with short stroke gass doesn't make sense tho
@@alexanderp8037 it doesn't make sense but after 2k rounds with three carbine classes it's still going strong.
@@alexanderp8037define horrible, because when I hear horrible I’m thinking 10-15lb triggers like the gen1 Tavor before they fixed it in the later models.
Hop, You're gonna wanna switch that KT OEM handguard out for a Lucky Irishman. Make sure the front screws in the rail are loctited. It stiffens the front end up a LOT and really helps with POI shift on that POS...
There is a guy teasing a very expensive free float rail system for the RDB as well.. but it's on preorder..... so, we'll see how that goes.
MCarbo trigger spring is nice too.
The Lucky Irishman bolt release thing looks ghetto but is nice too.
I don't know much about the HAGA stuff, Haven't really decided I need any of it yet..
Also, IDK about your rifle but call KT and give them your model number and ask them if there have been internal updates.
Keep an eye on SENEX arms, they will probably be the bullpup king in the future.
My wish was that you'd try the VHS-2, but your counter argument to getting one was that kitting it out with lasers and lights would be a challenge, which is totally fair. I own a VHS-2 and it's true. My current solution is a Olight Odin mounted to the pic rail at the top all the way forward and mounting a small pic rail section for the switch on the side of the handguard. Definitely sub optimal as this runs the wire to the side of the charging handle which means you can't really use it anymore on the side where you put the wire and it's no longer 100% ambi, minor inconvenience. I might experiment with a full size vertical grip to free up some rail space and see how that feels.
Coincidentally enough there is such a firearm that is an improved AUG It's made in Australia by Lithgow f90 MBR.
They shave about 1 lb off the standard rifle and ditch the quick change barrel system adding a modern top rail and four end for accessories while also making the rifle completely ambidextrous.
It's as close to perfect for a bullpup as I've ever seen but of course it's not available here and my balls are still recovering from blueness that occurred around 2018 I believe when they announce that shot show they were going to begin the groundwork for importation unfortunately there was one of those shoot them up scenarios that happened and they canceled all the plans without any updates for potential customers
huh?
@@novagroup2 Reading is hard?
Made..sure..available in the US..No
Loaning your rifle is like loaning your girlfriend. Sure, you can do it, but just kinda shows how you feel about it.
Lets borrow from Nutn again, bulpups are second cool. They don't really do anything a regular rifle doesn't already do, but they look really cool, and maybe they have some neat attributes. Truth be told, I like the looks of the RDB, would I buy one? Probably not. Watching the video of you guys shoot these things, it's noticeable how often you shift your position while shooting due to hot brass landing in places you find uncomfortable. I think this might be the single biggest issue with a bulpup.
That said, I appreciate the continued thinking on this matter. These debates are mere video essays to further drive thinking further.
Arfcom and reddit have threads on AUG stocks cracking. It's a pattern failure in batches made post 2020. Evidently, they changed their polymer from what they'd been using for the last 45 years, and it isn't holding up. It seems like they could just go back to their old formulation, and, for all I know, they have. There's still some of those floating around the market, though, so it's just something to be aware of. Last I heard, Steyr was stepping up and fixing those rifles, so it's most likely an annoyance and nothing more. It's just something to be aware of if you pick one up. They are cracking near the ejection port and / or the rear takedown pin.
Grab an Blklbl ALX or Mantis handguard for the MDRX. Deals with the zero issue and is a ton more rigid. Plus you get a built in bipod with the latter.
And a VFG for bracing easier. Really all you need to do for it.
it doesn't hold zero :(
The line about “drawing the Tavor and then figuring out how to fit a gun in it” was also said by Ian at Forgotten Weapons talking about the Vektor CR-21, so that may be just the internet reusing a joke.
Also, I did fiddle with the trigger on my AUG, and while it cleaned up the pull quite a bit, it also made it less reliable. I’d get failures to reset and had zero faith that it would be drop safe, so I went back to the factory trigger almost out of necessity.
Still like my VHS, though.
The removable barrel also allows better cleaning and if there is a double feed that is quite annoying to clear, taking the pressure off by taking the barrel out makes it easy. There is a reason why the Aussies still use it and the 9-hole guys hit out to 800 yards.
Sadly it seems that the quality isn't as good as it was like no longer having the chromed barrel in what is sold in the US. With the right gas cylinder it handles a can and with the rail on the right laizor & IR is vertical on there and have fun with the cables.
The removable barrel is also used to have different lengths so it can be ultra short or with 20'' it is the length of a 12.5 AR with full velocity the .223 craves. Lots of upgrades are unsafe, but mostly those that try to mess with the weight of the trigger, it has to be light like a 1911 trigger or it doesn't like impacts. The front grip is a choice, but you can make it work quite well if you know how to use it. Get the gloved hand a bit sticking out the end and rest on fence/table/rock etc. You can make small adjustments to the elevation by changing the grip pressure. The Aussies are known for getting easy headshots that way. They also run with dry lube on the trigger pack and nothing else if it has to be used in the cold or heat. It was made to be used in the alps with mittens and it can be disassembled with mittens too. As a lefty you might want to try the swat config with the grip further back. It also helps to visit the AUG academy for a lesson.
Having the A3, M1, swat the F88/F90 out there shows it can be modernized and effectively used.
I hope the Tavor experiment goes well and nothing breaks.
@brassfacts If you get your AUG, make sure to read the manual and look at the old aussie break down video. Push the pin in first to release the buttplate, move it away, then pull out the pin. Adjusting the pre-travel is easy. I wonder if your barrel is chromed or nitrided.
The reason in Die Hard might be to lacking actor training, but it is easy to control one handed. I met a on armed vet that is using an AUG for that reason. It helps that everything works with mittens so a meat mitten does the job.
Looking forward to the Tavor 7 review guys!
I actually just picked up a 20 inch hellion. I don’t really do any night vision so I don’t have to worry about lasers.
I actually find the hellion really comfortable for me and by sliding the buttplate out two notches it put my cheek at the perfect spot.
A lot of people complain about the length of pull on the hellion but I don’t really notice it.
Hop... when you called the AUG "crippled", it gave me an idea. the next bullpup showdown, you should title the video "cripple fight" a la Timmy/Jimmy from South Park
The F90 might be a much better version of the AUG for reasons as mentioned in this video by Hop. Wonder if we'll see any civ legal versions imported in our lifetimes.
Bushmaster m17 has the best bullpup trigger on the market. They are very nice. Aside from the other issues with the design.
I love that hop pronounces it tavor instead of tavor. Great vid as always guys
When I am looking at a new gun, I get online and see what as many reviewers as I can find have to say about that gun. I just ordered the Desert Tech Wolverine
Can't wait for the BR55 review!
That is just such a beautiful spot, from day through dusk into night. What a gorgeous range to spend time at.
So hop, think you'll ever try the keltec RFB? Assuming you can find one.
A3 Tactical Triad. Ive got one coming January hopefully. We'll see hoe it does on my fm15. Looks better than the Reap SCY. Let the negative comments ensue!
Ive been wanting to get a bullpup for the longest time, ive been looking at the AUG, but from listening to your guys last vid, and this followup one, im wondering if an x95 or an mdrx would be better.
no, dont buy a mdrx.
@@novagroup2 well x95 it is then 😄
@@will2777 The x95 is trash, the AUG is king.
Hey, love your content always great shit mate. One question I have as I've been watching ya'll at some of the places you shoot (sick mountain locations btw) -- do ya'll pick up brass out there when you shoot? or how do you manage brass in some of those steep rocky areas?
I could imagine the answer might be that it's just not reasonable to do so, but I was wondering about it. Thanks
Kel tec RDB is the best❤❤❤
The reason I like the AUG isn’t because it lends itself to modern shooting, it’s because the damn thing works. Most bullpups have notable reliability issues in my experience. The AUG is annoyingly reliable. I’ll take reliable with wonky ergos and a shit trigger over sexy garbage that doesn’t work.
I would recommend you Hop and you guys to revisit the Hellion in 20" with the magwell and extended bolt catch hook part by Lunartech designs to improve its useability. Also the 18" and 20" model has a slightly better trigger and the longer barrel is a bit better on the balance.
And another is the Tavor X95 with the BLKLBL handguard, gieselle trigger upgrade, use the gas buster part add on to keep the gas under control.
Lastly is optional, but a Steyr AUG with Underworld arms's new AUG cqc styles handguard, Steyr's red trigger spring kit, ARID trigger shoe and Corvus defensio's shell deflector.
The Desert Tech MDRX is a good gun on paper but its riddled with handful of flaws compared to the 3 primary military issue bullpups such as the AUG, X95, and Hellion. Kelltec RDB is affordable, but honestly not as rugged compared to the 3 rifles mentioned above. There is the K&M M17s, upcoming SENEX ARMS, bullpup kit for the AR15/piston based Jakl/Brn180 from A3 Tactical TRIAD kit and the Scy Reaper kit too.
The MDRX as you mentioned, it doesnt hold zero on the handguard. This is why I dont prefer it and the reason is the Gasblock exposed on then top rail is Only the area that holds zero but its also a finger burner point. Desert tech removed this in the latest update but left a cavity hole, which brings use to the option of a Steur aug with the handguard mounted to the barrel or the Hellion with its flat top rail that is more accurate, or lastly the X95 that isnt an accurate platform from the start but has a flat top rail option. Also the MDRX has horrible accuracy with 308 conversion, its scissor bolt design is not robust, the mdrx with the folding handles breaks easy (the newer mdrx fixes this but removed the folding handle). Theres a lot more problems with the MDRX which I do wish you guys did more research than impulse purchase the MDRX. If you want the 308 bullpup, the Tavor 7, K&M M17s 308, and Keltec RFB 308 is your main choice or the oddball M1A Bullpup chasis.
For me personally, I will highly recommend you guys to try the Hellion in the 20" barrel, however you must again follow what I wrote above, the lunartech magwell part and bolt catch enhancement, and ALSO you should change the BCM grip to a 20 degree angle AR15 grip like the Magpul MIAD grip and it will feel much better for the LOP and selector access. The hellion may put your support hand forward, however its intended to put the C-clamp right in front of the charging handle. So you should try to revisit and get your body to get used to it as I know you discount it, but its a gun once you sit down with it longer, your body conforms to it.
In the bullpup video, there's a clip of Hop using the Hellion while describing the issues with mounting nightvision equipment to bullpups. His issues with the hellion have nothing to do with the trigger or the balance or the bolt catch, and everything to do with that FAMAS-esque top rail.
I do strongly believe bullpup configuration is the future (as far as current generation ammunition goes anyway). There just hasn't been one bullpup that fixed all of the gripes people have in one particular model. There hasn't been an AR15 of the bullpup world. Take the latest one being Hellion, which comes close, but has atrocious bolt release and subpart mag release. X95 does really well, but has no way to adjust gas or clean the trigger mechanism. They all have some kind of dumb issue, that others have fixed. Nobody seems to put sufficient effort to close the deal.
I had a bullpup Tavor X95 and got rid of it. It was super gassy and had a lot of recoil while suppressed. It was heavy but balanced, not really ambi swapping shoulders, specially with a beard, will pull the hairs out of your face with the port so close to the face when swapping shoulders. I liked it but not enough to keep it.
Ive never even thought about desert tech Bull pups before and it sounds like I made the correct decision
Go the Aug. it’s a fun cool gun that doesn’t break every 15 minutes
Can’t wait for the HLX Pro review!
i would like to hear what would make a good bulpup. like if the conclusion comes to be to make it as close to an ar15 as possible, maybe just a bullpup lower could be considered.
This is the content I’m looking for
I wonder if a 20in MDR with a full length rail could help the rail space issue
Certainly helps with my RDB, although the top rail doesn't increase in length which is unfortunate. I did Frankenstein a front buis mount off the end of the mlok handguard using an arisaka scout mount and a riser (and a nail as a shim...) but that is about all I trust it for. Hop isn't wrong about limited LAM mounting options given the relatively short length of the top optics rail.
Question : does Brahk spell his name this way?
Final thoughts : give Nova some "taps on the paps" for us all.
I don’t think I can watch his channel if his parents spelled his name “Brahk”. Holy f*ck.
I have a tavor 7 with a lvpo, micro red dot, modlite okw & a hand stop. Boy she's a heavy girl but I love it.
Get a Groza!! I used one in a video game once, pretty neat.
Curious to see what y’all do with the T7. Particularly the optic
BF, you can get a kit to convert your SE to FE. its an extra 300-ish bucks on top of the 900+ for the 7.62 kit, but its still cheaper than buying a Tavor 7.
that is pricey as fuck. jeeesh
@@novagroup2 I personally still thought it was worth it, I started with the 16" 5.56 FE and got the 20" 7.62 kit later on. Granted, I got a killer deal on the MDRX from a friend. Both barrels are more accurate than me by a longshot.
The Tavor 7 is still shit. I’m moving to Colorado at the end of the month. I’ve offered to bring by my Forward Eject .308 MDRX, which is also in Micron Side Eject config. The only thing I’m missing are the flow-through suppressors you’ve got and the BLK LBL Mantis.
I've always said this, a bullpen is optimal for main use cases, extreme range firearms where you want a fuck load of barrel, and extreme CQB where you want as little gun as possible.
How about a x95 in 300 blk sbr? Has the adjustable gas block and even shorter.
Stop talking about bullpups, I bought a x95 last time and my wallet hates me.
How is it?