I think I would have preferred everything switching to the pins that Webelos/AOL have rather than loops. But I'm looking forward to designing some stellar events patches since my scouts won't have award patches to wear.
Why not make everything a patch instead of belt loops. My oldest is a bear, he has to have his Lion and Tiger loops on a separate belt than the one he wears because no more fit on it. The one he wears only has his wolf and bear loops on it. Patches or badges would work much better for the sheer amount of electives and requirements there are.
@@jbh.6257 on a dash like the scouts. And why remove the awards you already got? Do Scouts at the troop level remove the merit badges they got the pervious years?
@@jbh.6257 I think you are supposed to remove previous rank's loops upon earning the badge of rank, though I've seen people fill up the belt with all the loops once the belt is outgrown, hang it from the wall with all their achievements. On a similar note, it would be cooler if the Cub Adventures worked like the Scouts BSA Merit Badges. Every Adventure is a little round patch that goes on a sash you can choose not to wear to every meeting, a good way of showing off your whole breadth of achievements as a child. Not to mention lots of kids aren't too fond of wearing belts to begin with, even for Scouts. Most kids either don't wear legs with belt loops, so they couldn't wear the belt, or they choose to wear their shirt un-tucked, which defeats the purpose of showing off a belt full of metal logos. Surely one could just better enforce the dress code, but we've so few people as it is, and not everyone even has a shirt (you know, for a core element of the scouting program, it sure is expensive: you'd think if it was meant to make the kids not compare how well off each other are, the uniforms would have a lower bar of entry, cause a kid who can't afford the shirt sure does look out of place amongst other, uniformed, kids).
As I recall, back in the day, in addition to "Arrow Points" (try sewing those little rascals on a shirt pocket), Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts had an ugly plastic "Progress Toward Ranks" thing that attached to the belt, and had cords for hanging beads earned with each requirement or elective. Rather than belt loops, patches, or pins, maybe beads large enough to display the logo for each Adventure, on a cord worn with the neckerchief (a la Wood Badge beads) or hanging from the neckerchief slide. Upside: Could then be worn with activity t-shirts.
When will the new Lion rank patch be available to purchase? I will not purchase a bar if my lions can wear the diamond. I don’t want them to have a hole in their diamond.
Part of this push towards loops instead of patches is probably cost of production. Metal Loops are likely way cheaper than unique patches. Replacing the Bobcat with a little diamond Lion badge is one less patch they need to sell. There's also the issue of people not knowing how to sew. Sure there's services that you can pay to have it attached, or you can use glue to stick it on there, or maybe use a plastic holder that looks more suited for trading cards than badges of rank. That being said, the belts are not particularly popular either. Kids often don't need a belt to keep their pants up, often choose to wear pants that don't accommodate belts, or choose to wear their shirt untucked (hiding any belt underneath). Maybe our dress code is a little soft, but we have relatively few Adult Leaders, so we can't afford to be nearly as strict as the Uniform Inspection Guides imply. Anyways, I think a compromise could be the return of the Red Patch Vest. The Patch Vest was a Cub Scout thing where you put all your accessory patches from awards, events, and vacations to national parks (anything that doesn't go on the shirt), onto a plain vest made of a single layer of red fabric, held together in the front by a loose leather strip. Give us Adventure Patches™! I know Cubs have a historical precedent of using metal belt loops, but at least the Academic & Sports loops were embossed! Maybe take it a step further and give us a sash! Girl Scouts use them, even Scouts BSA use them for Merit Badges. Though Scouts BSA doesn't need to start earning Merit Badges til a few ranks in, an Adventure Sash™ could organize all of the adventures you earn throughout one's entire Cub Scout career, and introduce the concept early. Parents can use safety pins (or Velcro maybe?) to make it fit a little Lion scout, and removing them will let it fit a full sized Arrow of Light scout. Additionally, a Scout could choose not to wear their Sash to every meeting, perhaps at the Pack Meetings, Crossover, Blue & Gold, etc. It would increase the cost of production to use patches, and people would moan and bemoan having to sew them on, but people love Patches! It's one of the most iconic parts of Scouting as a concept! Retiring the Bobcat *Badge* is a shame, as it's been there since pretty much the beginning, but with Adventure Patches™, every rank can have a Bobcat Patch! Make a 2x2 diamond of rank specific Bobcats (mirroring the diamond on the shirt)! Don't retire the famous World Conservation Panda, give them new life with a series of rank specific "Champions for Nature" patches! I think this is a solid idea, so even if National doesn't get behind it, someone somewhere is welcome to steal the idea. Maybe make the Sash a nice shade of Scouting Red, to mirror the Vest iconography, and to differentiate it from the Scout BSA Merit Sash, which is a shade of Scout Pants Green.
Agreed - I would much rather have patches. Making the awards adventures isn't going to change the attachment rate. WHAT my scouts get isn't the problem, it's just a planning/logistical concern. NOVA for example is much harder to get than others, which it should be, and while our pack has worked on a couple it's been much harder to get everyone to get them. I will be shocked if changing them from a super cool patch to a same-ol' loop makes a difference.
Agree completely, youth do not care about belt loops (elementary school children don't wear belts and most of their cloths do not come with belt loops--especially female youth). HORRIBLE decision to switch toward more belt loops.
So AOLs are supposed to complete 8 adventures in 6 months or less for those who turn 10 during 4th grade? That doesn't sound like a recipe for a quality program. Is the goal to delay entry into Scouts BSA?
I think I would have preferred everything switching to the pins that Webelos/AOL have rather than loops. But I'm looking forward to designing some stellar events patches since my scouts won't have award patches to wear.
Pins are also a good idea….
Why not make everything a patch instead of belt loops. My oldest is a bear, he has to have his Lion and Tiger loops on a separate belt than the one he wears because no more fit on it. The one he wears only has his wolf and bear loops on it. Patches or badges would work much better for the sheer amount of electives and requirements there are.
I assume you would remove all the loops from the previous year. Also not sure where you would put all the patches/badges ??
@@jbh.6257 on a dash like the scouts. And why remove the awards you already got? Do Scouts at the troop level remove the merit badges they got the pervious years?
@@jbh.6257 We have the same problem with loops. Eventually the kid's waist isn't big enough for them all.
@@jbh.6257 I think you are supposed to remove previous rank's loops upon earning the badge of rank, though I've seen people fill up the belt with all the loops once the belt is outgrown, hang it from the wall with all their achievements.
On a similar note, it would be cooler if the Cub Adventures worked like the Scouts BSA Merit Badges.
Every Adventure is a little round patch that goes on a sash you can choose not to wear to every meeting, a good way of showing off your whole breadth of achievements as a child.
Not to mention lots of kids aren't too fond of wearing belts to begin with, even for Scouts. Most kids either don't wear legs with belt loops, so they couldn't wear the belt, or they choose to wear their shirt un-tucked, which defeats the purpose of showing off a belt full of metal logos. Surely one could just better enforce the dress code, but we've so few people as it is, and not everyone even has a shirt
(you know, for a core element of the scouting program, it sure is expensive: you'd think if it was meant to make the kids not compare how well off each other are, the uniforms would have a lower bar of entry, cause a kid who can't afford the shirt sure does look out of place amongst other, uniformed, kids).
As I recall, back in the day, in addition to "Arrow Points" (try sewing those little rascals on a shirt pocket), Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts had an ugly plastic "Progress Toward Ranks" thing that attached to the belt, and had cords for hanging beads earned with each requirement or elective. Rather than belt loops, patches, or pins, maybe beads large enough to display the logo for each Adventure, on a cord worn with the neckerchief (a la Wood Badge beads) or hanging from the neckerchief slide. Upside: Could then be worn with activity t-shirts.
When will the new Lion rank patch be available to purchase? I will not purchase a bar if my lions can wear the diamond. I don’t want them to have a hole in their diamond.
Part of this push towards loops instead of patches is probably cost of production. Metal Loops are likely way cheaper than unique patches. Replacing the Bobcat with a little diamond Lion badge is one less patch they need to sell.
There's also the issue of people not knowing how to sew. Sure there's services that you can pay to have it attached, or you can use glue to stick it on there, or maybe use a plastic holder that looks more suited for trading cards than badges of rank.
That being said, the belts are not particularly popular either. Kids often don't need a belt to keep their pants up, often choose to wear pants that don't accommodate belts, or choose to wear their shirt untucked (hiding any belt underneath). Maybe our dress code is a little soft, but we have relatively few Adult Leaders, so we can't afford to be nearly as strict as the Uniform Inspection Guides imply.
Anyways, I think a compromise could be the return of the Red Patch Vest. The Patch Vest was a Cub Scout thing where you put all your accessory patches from awards, events, and vacations to national parks (anything that doesn't go on the shirt), onto a plain vest made of a single layer of red fabric, held together in the front by a loose leather strip.
Give us Adventure Patches™! I know Cubs have a historical precedent of using metal belt loops, but at least the Academic & Sports loops were embossed!
Maybe take it a step further and give us a sash! Girl Scouts use them, even Scouts BSA use them for Merit Badges. Though Scouts BSA doesn't need to start earning Merit Badges til a few ranks in, an Adventure Sash™ could organize all of the adventures you earn throughout one's entire Cub Scout career, and introduce the concept early. Parents can use safety pins (or Velcro maybe?) to make it fit a little Lion scout, and removing them will let it fit a full sized Arrow of Light scout.
Additionally, a Scout could choose not to wear their Sash to every meeting, perhaps at the Pack Meetings, Crossover, Blue & Gold, etc.
It would increase the cost of production to use patches, and people would moan and bemoan having to sew them on, but people love Patches! It's one of the most iconic parts of Scouting as a concept!
Retiring the Bobcat *Badge* is a shame, as it's been there since pretty much the beginning, but with Adventure Patches™, every rank can have a Bobcat Patch! Make a 2x2 diamond of rank specific Bobcats (mirroring the diamond on the shirt)! Don't retire the famous World Conservation Panda, give them new life with a series of rank specific "Champions for Nature" patches!
I think this is a solid idea, so even if National doesn't get behind it, someone somewhere is welcome to steal the idea. Maybe make the Sash a nice shade of Scouting Red, to mirror the Vest iconography, and to differentiate it from the Scout BSA Merit Sash, which is a shade of Scout Pants Green.
Why is there a yo-yo adventure but not sewing?!
Sewing = thrifty. Sewing = basic life skill. BSA should have a Sewing Adventure & a Sewing Merit Badge
Beyond disappointed in the dropping of patches. There's no way that 1% statistic is accurate.
Agreed - I would much rather have patches. Making the awards adventures isn't going to change the attachment rate. WHAT my scouts get isn't the problem, it's just a planning/logistical concern. NOVA for example is much harder to get than others, which it should be, and while our pack has worked on a couple it's been much harder to get everyone to get them. I will be shocked if changing them from a super cool patch to a same-ol' loop makes a difference.
Agree completely, youth do not care about belt loops (elementary school children don't wear belts and most of their cloths do not come with belt loops--especially female youth). HORRIBLE decision to switch toward more belt loops.
So AOLs are supposed to complete 8 adventures in 6 months or less for those who turn 10 during 4th grade? That doesn't sound like a recipe for a quality program. Is the goal to delay entry into Scouts BSA?
Webelos is confusing? So much training has been tossed aside. I miss OWLS.