@@revolution4122 Yeah, by the exact same critics that thought Adventure and Unleashed titles were not good, and the exact same people who think Sonic is a mickey mouse in shoes and shouldn't have a serious story. The only reason we all praised that game was because for once Sonic as a franchise had a decent reputation in the eyes of critics and the public. Sure the game has been nice and refreshing at the time of release but it doesn't hold up to other releases in this franchise even with the public reception it got back then.
@@dachel683 Notice how i haven't made a statement about it not being good or fun, sure it sometimes can be even with all it's flaws. However i did mean it when i said that it just doesn't hold up to other releases in this franchise.
Sonic Unleashed has the best side missions. I love interacting with humans to learn about their backstories. The cartoonish human designs are great and I wish they make a cameo maybe.
The debates that truly get on my nerves is Sonic’s personality or if he should be holding a gun. I think Sonic’s personality should be, live life to the fullest, only go by you way, help other people no matter how stubborn they may be, fight enemies who want to square up but don’t kill one thing Sonic learns is not to kill people after defeating them notably Dr. Eggman, especially in Sonic 1. Sonic shouldn’t be a jerk who ruins everyone’s day, makes unfunny jokes and murders villains for ruining his day. He should be lighthearted, fair and understanding and always know what’s right. I just never can see him being a moron that nobody likes.
@MitoAdam That's more a perception thing. He's warned that he'll be looked upon by history as a slayer of kings, but Sonic doesn't care and wants to defeat King Arthur because he sees his rule as cruel. He makes calls as he sees them, and takes action accordingly.
@@brycebitetti1402 Yeah, that's what I meant. He's okay with being perceived as the bad guy, so long as he does what he believes is the right thing. In that case, killing an evil king that rules his land with fear.
I remember there was some uproar during the leadup to Sonic 4. People were planning to boycott the game because Sonic was in his modern design, rather than his classic design. They were going to boycott Sonic 4 by buying Sonic 1.
one of the main reasons i joined the sonic fandom was the shipping. ship wars have always been a thing, but years ago it was mostly petty arguments. now, it's serious accusations and assumptions of people's irl lives based on the *sonic ship* they like. it's gotten so bad that im so desensitized to this bullshit that it's gone right back to being silly in my eyes 💀
Nah with any fandom it's horrible, like I get it, stop shipping minors, even if they are centuries old (I'm looking at you dragon maid fans) with adults But pairing characters who are the same age range (sonamy/sonadow/shadamy more famously known) will send you to death row apparently
sonic forces? chad warden don't give a fuck, aight? let that nigga force, aight? if y'all niggas want a game for that triple, we got, like, sonic forces himself on a nigga, aight, fuck that shit, aight?
@@yytyyy5329 because it was funny and i told him the joke and now he simply STEALS it with not a single repercussion. this is absolutely REPUSLIVE behaviour on xpools side. my lawyer is hard at work making sure i get justice.
You can make a good sonic game without momentum but momentum based platforming is key to what made the classics fun and I think making a proper 3D momentum platformer is one of the directions a future Sonic game should go down one day
It's so frustrating trying to explain the issues a lot of us have with the way IDW is handling Sonic (Keep in mind, Specifically Sonic) to people who don't see it as a big deal / don't think it matters. There's so many threads on what the issue is and for some reason no one who is supposedly trying to understand the problem hasn't just figured it out by now. Also the whole reason why people are complaining about IDW is because the comics are canon to the games now, Ian is writing for the games now, and a lot of people are starting to care more about this stuff becuase most people didn't back then. Lots of us just don't want it leaking into the games which has already happened with Frontiers
I kinda want to add that Sega has a number of rules in places as to what they want in the comics, and they have a representative to check on the comics before they're published. Basically, the representative comes in, looks at the latest issue, and if they're okay with it, the issue can be published. If not, changes have to be made to get approved. That's also why Shadow acts the way he does in the comics.
idw isn't canon to the games just because a character from the idw comics got mentioned in the game doesn't make the whole idw comics canon it just means that idw character has a game counterpart just like how the main cast has their idw counterpart
@@christopherford39 Actually, SEGA owns all IDW characters. Not to mention SEGA gets final say in each issue that's published; if they like it, it'll be published, but if not, changes have to be made according to what SEGA wants. Also, Ian has confirmed that IDW is canon on his podcast.
Back in the early 2010s, I used to defend the Sonic fandom, oh how young and naive I was. 10+ years later, I now think they deserve the bad rep that they have.
One of the weirder debates i see a lot in my circles on twitter are the idw comics really good or just not that great? It has its weaknesses but i always thought it was high quality and consistent. The most valid arguments I see are the game cast doesn't get enough arcs to themselves and just the new characters, some of the arcs just drag on for too long (this one i really agree with), and my personal gripe is it lacks the detailed world building and geography the Archie Comics set with Mobius which made it feel like more of a livable world even if everyone was a soap opera mess of a character.
2:35-3:18 This contradiction of a statement establishes every reason why Sonic fans never seem satisfied with anything. *Too blind, bald, bittered, and too busy of being broke*
5:10 I believe the point of the argument was that Sonic never went out of his way to convince his enemies or say a whole speech about why he does things like he does in IDW. He would always leaves them to decide if they wanted to change for the better or if they choose the opposite and if they did he would beat them up which was true for both JP and US which differentiates Sonic from other Hero type characters. Since IDW is suppose to be a version of Game sonic and becoming Canon to the games plus it’s being shown in Frontiers writing I can see why people would start criticizing Evan’s and Ian’s writing.
It does feel a bit too spoon fed. In the case of Frontiers it's most likely an attempt to steer perception away from the direction from the 2010's games which dove face first into self parody and assassinating any and all character development from previous games. I think this is understandable in this case. What's really going to matter is how it's carried over the long term. The comics do need to try some new things with Sonic's character and place within it.
I mean, this is literally what he does throughout IDW, the reason why he goes out of his way to redeem them here is that he met way too many Villains to count that were redeemed, to the point where it's at least worth a try now
Sonic's muzzle doesn't have to have that curve all the time. I'm not against exaggerating his design a little. But I have a problem with it being his official default design. People like it when the muzzle overtakes the eyes because it looks like he's smiling, well it still looks that way when he's not. There's no artistic intent or purpose behind it. It just looks like a mistake that could be so easily corrected. But it's gotten so bad that now Yuji Uwekawa is taking influence from the current Sonic model and putting it in his own art. It's like Yuji went, "Yup, this is how Sonic looks now. Nothin' I can do about it ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯". Like, bro, this is YOUR design. Why are you doing this? When Iizuka asks for more consistency in Sonic's design, fuckin stand up for yourself and go "No! I'm not changing a goddamn thing. I already gave you the perfect blueprint. Fix those shitty 3D models already." Not to mention that this is all an insult to Naoto Oshima's design that YOU'RE adapting. HE gave Sonic that curve when Felix the Cat inspired him in the first place when he had to figure out how to separate the muzzle and the eyes when he painted the muzzle a different color.
Your problems with unleashed are because you're not actually interacting with the werehogs controls. werehog has a ton of super flashy and fun combos to execute and yet most people don't actually interact with it, and as a result, people tend to also get low scores.
2:18 But that’s not how best games work. It depends on how well designed they are as games. Which in your feelings for the Werehog, makes it one of the weaker mainline Sonic games statistically. Which is an opinion yeah, but having a lot of polish doesn’t make it objectively good.
I think sonic fans hate sonic And I just think there's a logic like, if you hate sonic your a fan and if you love sonic your not a fan So I guess I'm not a sonic fan cause I actually love the franchise
Mate you can do, get and purchase more in Unleashed than Gens, what are these people smoking? Plus Gens' soundtrack is more Remixes than original works.
Unleashed had momentum. It's what makes it so fun. As for BK, giving someone 2 lines of advice after you beat them isn't "reasoning with them". It's hardly comparable to all the paragon speeches he gives in IDW.
Just gotta drop some hate. Sonic videos are just terrible,sonictubers acting like a puppet master over the fans is a recurring thing and it needs to stop. How many videos are there of "the sonic fanbase problem"
There's a reason if people complain about Ian Flynn's writing: docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1_i7tZK4Z8XED4tX9QynktR09hyXA3I92qnGFClILzPU/mobilebasic#heading=h.zhkaptsv31ld
Only Sonic fans would get mad over Sonic doing something that they've previously praised Sonic for doing
@@revolution4122 Yeah, by the exact same critics that thought Adventure and Unleashed titles were not good, and the exact same people who think Sonic is a mickey mouse in shoes and shouldn't have a serious story.
The only reason we all praised that game was because for once Sonic as a franchise had a decent reputation in the eyes of critics and the public.
Sure the game has been nice and refreshing at the time of release but it doesn't hold up to other releases in this franchise even with the public reception it got back then.
Examples?
@@Max-Rtpmp not a having a serious story, having a serious story, colors, etc
@@Nayutune eh, it's still fun. I'll defend colors till the day i die. Colors is good
@@dachel683 Notice how i haven't made a statement about it not being good or fun, sure it sometimes can be even with all it's flaws. However i did mean it when i said that it just doesn't hold up to other releases in this franchise.
Sonic Unleashed has the best side missions. I love interacting with humans to learn about their backstories. The cartoonish human designs are great and I wish they make a cameo maybe.
Those little human interactions are really what makes Unleashed feel like a World Adventure. Frontiers was sorely lacking them.
Sonic fans famously known for being hostile with Sonic redesigns
As they should be, imagine if the Boom redesigns stuck around
@@evdestroy5304 Yeah, but then there's the time they got mad over his quills being shorter
granted i'm glad they did that for the movie
@@neko_my_cat The original design was terrible, it only got better after they changed it to be more similar to the game design
I respect the willpower to not go over the green eyes or the blue arms.
The debates that truly get on my nerves is Sonic’s personality or if he should be holding a gun. I think Sonic’s personality should be, live life to the fullest, only go by you way, help other people no matter how stubborn they may be, fight enemies who want to square up but don’t kill one thing Sonic learns is not to kill people after defeating them notably Dr. Eggman, especially in Sonic 1. Sonic shouldn’t be a jerk who ruins everyone’s day, makes unfunny jokes and murders villains for ruining his day. He should be lighthearted, fair and understanding and always know what’s right. I just never can see him being a moron that nobody likes.
I believe that in even in Black Knight, Sonic said that he doesn't mind playing the villain if it means doing what he believes is right.
@MitoAdam That's more a perception thing. He's warned that he'll be looked upon by history as a slayer of kings, but Sonic doesn't care and wants to defeat King Arthur because he sees his rule as cruel. He makes calls as he sees them, and takes action accordingly.
@@brycebitetti1402 Yeah, that's what I meant. He's okay with being perceived as the bad guy, so long as he does what he believes is the right thing. In that case, killing an evil king that rules his land with fear.
@@MoloTurbo I mean, fleetway exists
@@machtenverl5916 ye but fleetway sonic is also insecure too
Tbh frontiers is the one game that NEEDED momentum in my eyes. The other boost games don’t, but…idk. The open zone was only “fun enough” to me.
Sonic fans fighting over how sonics quills should be 0.001 cm or 100cm be like:
I remember there was some uproar during the leadup to Sonic 4. People were planning to boycott the game because Sonic was in his modern design, rather than his classic design. They were going to boycott Sonic 4 by buying Sonic 1.
one of the main reasons i joined the sonic fandom was the shipping. ship wars have always been a thing, but years ago it was mostly petty arguments. now, it's serious accusations and assumptions of people's irl lives based on the *sonic ship* they like. it's gotten so bad that im so desensitized to this bullshit that it's gone right back to being silly in my eyes 💀
Nah with any fandom it's horrible, like I get it, stop shipping minors, even if they are centuries old (I'm looking at you dragon maid fans) with adults
But pairing characters who are the same age range (sonamy/sonadow/shadamy more famously known) will send you to death row apparently
Either way, Sonic discourse is up there with Religion or Politics as a sure fire way to elicit nasty headaches.
Sonic Discourse is WHAT????
Shadow the Hedgehog does have momentum, though. The only game to lack any form of momentum in the series is 06.
Sonic 4 episode 1 : am i a joke to you?
If yuji naka wasnt in jail this debate stuff wouldnt be a thing #freemyboy
If that’s the case how come for the last few years when he wasn’t in jail all this stuff was still happening
why is he in jail? didn't he literally make sonic?? wtf
@@CrazyGreenFluff insider trading.
Also he didn't make sonic, natao ohshima did
Shadow the Hedgehog released in 2005 for the Nintendo GameCube, Xbox, and Playstation 2 is based
The M word !!
He said the M word 💀
ngl i first read this comment before this part of the video and thought the M word was Mandates
As a Balkan person the ending took me aback
NO, NOT THE _M WORD_
So glad Chad Warden made an appearance.
sonic forces? chad warden don't give a fuck, aight? let that nigga force, aight? if y'all niggas want a game for that triple, we got, like, sonic forces himself on a nigga, aight, fuck that shit, aight?
Sonic fans when Sonic's quills are one hair shorter
i deserve credit for that cream the rabbit joke
Oh really?
🤓
We both had a very similar idea.
Why you need credit for a joke? Tf
@@yytyyy5329 because it was funny and i told him the joke and now he simply STEALS it with not a single repercussion. this is absolutely REPUSLIVE behaviour on xpools side. my lawyer is hard at work making sure i get justice.
You can make a good sonic game without momentum but momentum based platforming is key to what made the classics fun and I think making a proper 3D momentum platformer is one of the directions a future Sonic game should go down one day
NEW DEBATE IS SONALLY BETTER THAN SONAMY. I VOTE SONAMY
wait I don't get the IDW sonic eye's debate, what is the difference between him and the normal design?
AYO GARFIELD MUSIC
It's so frustrating trying to explain the issues a lot of us have with the way IDW is handling Sonic (Keep in mind, Specifically Sonic) to people who don't see it as a big deal / don't think it matters. There's so many threads on what the issue is and for some reason no one who is supposedly trying to understand the problem hasn't just figured it out by now. Also the whole reason why people are complaining about IDW is because the comics are canon to the games now, Ian is writing for the games now, and a lot of people are starting to care more about this stuff becuase most people didn't back then. Lots of us just don't want it leaking into the games which has already happened with Frontiers
I kinda want to add that Sega has a number of rules in places as to what they want in the comics, and they have a representative to check on the comics before they're published. Basically, the representative comes in, looks at the latest issue, and if they're okay with it, the issue can be published. If not, changes have to be made to get approved.
That's also why Shadow acts the way he does in the comics.
Then what the hell is the problem?
idw isn't canon to the games just because a character from the idw comics got mentioned in the game doesn't make the whole idw comics canon it just means that idw character has a game counterpart just like how the main cast has their idw counterpart
@@christopherford39 Actually, SEGA owns all IDW characters. Not to mention SEGA gets final say in each issue that's published; if they like it, it'll be published, but if not, changes have to be made according to what SEGA wants.
Also, Ian has confirmed that IDW is canon on his podcast.
@@SaiyanGamer95 link to the podcast
SALLY ACORN ISNT EVEN CANNON 😨
And?
You have the best channel and opinions ever.
First Balkan war is better because the Ottoman Empire lost their foothold in the Balkans
the debate about sonic's muzzle is so incredibly goofy i actually love it
Ever since Twitter pointed it out I can't unsee it. It's driving me crazy.
Most debates are.
4:18 deer god i remember reading that a couple of years ago do you have link to ghosts of the future?
Back in the early 2010s, I used to defend the Sonic fandom, oh how young and naive I was. 10+ years later, I now think they deserve the bad rep that they have.
One of the weirder debates i see a lot in my circles on twitter are the idw comics really good or just not that great? It has its weaknesses but i always thought it was high quality and consistent. The most valid arguments I see are the game cast doesn't get enough arcs to themselves and just the new characters, some of the arcs just drag on for too long (this one i really agree with), and my personal gripe is it lacks the detailed world building and geography the Archie Comics set with Mobius which made it feel like more of a livable world even if everyone was a soap opera mess of a character.
The biggest complaint i hear is people complaining about sonic giving others a chance of redemption
Thanks so much for this awesome video! Really good video! 😁
2:35-3:18 This contradiction of a statement establishes every reason why Sonic fans never seem satisfied with anything. *Too blind, bald, bittered, and too busy of being broke*
5:10 I believe the point of the argument was that Sonic never went out of his way to convince his enemies or say a whole speech about why he does things like he does in IDW.
He would always leaves them to decide if they wanted to change for the better or if they choose the opposite and if they did he would beat them up which was true for both JP and US which differentiates Sonic from other Hero type characters.
Since IDW is suppose to be a version of Game sonic and becoming Canon to the games plus it’s being shown in Frontiers writing I can see why people would start criticizing Evan’s and Ian’s writing.
It does feel a bit too spoon fed. In the case of Frontiers it's most likely an attempt to steer perception away from the direction from the 2010's games which dove face first into self parody and assassinating any and all character development from previous games. I think this is understandable in this case. What's really going to matter is how it's carried over the long term. The comics do need to try some new things with Sonic's character and place within it.
I mean, this is literally what he does throughout IDW, the reason why he goes out of his way to redeem them here is that he met way too many Villains to count that were redeemed, to the point where it's at least worth a try now
Sonic's muzzle doesn't have to have that curve all the time. I'm not against exaggerating his design a little. But I have a problem with it being his official default design. People like it when the muzzle overtakes the eyes because it looks like he's smiling, well it still looks that way when he's not. There's no artistic intent or purpose behind it. It just looks like a mistake that could be so easily corrected. But it's gotten so bad that now Yuji Uwekawa is taking influence from the current Sonic model and putting it in his own art. It's like Yuji went, "Yup, this is how Sonic looks now. Nothin' I can do about it ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯". Like, bro, this is YOUR design. Why are you doing this? When Iizuka asks for more consistency in Sonic's design, fuckin stand up for yourself and go "No! I'm not changing a goddamn thing. I already gave you the perfect blueprint. Fix those shitty 3D models already." Not to mention that this is all an insult to Naoto Oshima's design that YOU'RE adapting. HE gave Sonic that curve when Felix the Cat inspired him in the first place when he had to figure out how to separate the muzzle and the eyes when he painted the muzzle a different color.
Your personality is just like Scott the Woz
Sonic Unleashed is the best Sonic's game and have the best boost. Sonic Frontiers is the second place of a 3D Game.
3:37 that is vile. 💀
i love this game 2:22
nice opinion
but.... what about the sonic quills debate?
really good video
i pretty much agreed with all of your takes to be completely honest
Great video! Btw, what font did you use for the title cards?
I use Renogare, the font found in Celeste.
I mean the font in 2:10
Ohh, my fault. That’s one of the Sonic fonts I believe.
@@XPool by chance, do you remember from where you got it or its name?
I don’t remember where exactly it came from. One that you can get that is really close to what I used is “NiseSonic”.
Your problems with unleashed are because you're not actually interacting with the werehogs controls. werehog has a ton of super flashy and fun combos to execute and yet most people don't actually interact with it, and as a result, people tend to also get low scores.
I can barely tell the difference between IDW sonic and Modern Sonic’s design, what’s the point of complaining?
Sonic fans will debate the size of sonics nose.
2:18
But that’s not how best games work.
It depends on how well designed they are as games. Which in your feelings for the Werehog, makes it one of the weaker mainline Sonic games statistically.
Which is an opinion yeah, but having a lot of polish doesn’t make it objectively good.
I think sonic fans hate sonic
And I just think there's a logic like, if you hate sonic your a fan and if you love sonic your not a fan
So I guess I'm not a sonic fan cause I actually love the franchise
Mate you can do, get and purchase more in Unleashed than Gens, what are these people smoking? Plus Gens' soundtrack is more Remixes than original works.
do i look like i care
This is why I'm done with the fan base. Still like the games and stuff, but a lot of the fans really treat this like the end of the world.
sonichu is canon
fight me
3:39
I didn't get it
I can confirm. I am the *WerehogFan994* 0:13
well im WerehogFan995
Best Balkan War is ... ❔️❓️
SO TRUE
L Description
Unleashed had momentum. It's what makes it so fun.
As for BK, giving someone 2 lines of advice after you beat them isn't "reasoning with them". It's hardly comparable to all the paragon speeches he gives in IDW.
Rockadoodle is mid
your mid
Thia was great haha
You just had to ask
Just gotta drop some hate. Sonic videos are just terrible,sonictubers acting like a puppet master over the fans is a recurring thing and it needs to stop. How many videos are there of "the sonic fanbase problem"
You need to stop making hate comments
@@yay29823 yeah I do I realize this and will make changes
Why do you keep forcing this fake personality?
sonally IS better than sonamy thank you!
There's a reason if people complain about Ian Flynn's writing: docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1_i7tZK4Z8XED4tX9QynktR09hyXA3I92qnGFClILzPU/mobilebasic#heading=h.zhkaptsv31ld