How to replace a damaged downtube on your bike - Framebuilding 101 with Paul Brodie
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2020
- This Romax frame hit something hard and got a wrinkle on the downtube. Let me show you how to replace the downtube and headtube🤓🏁
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#dent #headtube #downtube #fussyframebuilder
I don't know how these videos aren't getting millions of views. A true master at work. Thank you for sharing.
Mitch and I are just getting going... thanks for watching and helping to spread the word.
They are amazing. I have learned so much since I started watching them.
Fantastic. Where was this channel 20 years ago when I was trying to teach myself this craft!
Thank you. I don't even think that TH-cam was around 20 years ago....
@@paulbrodie Probably not, but I did have the Talbot book...
Thanks for taking the trouble to post these brilliant videos, It is great watching the master at work making it look all so easy.
Nice to see other frame builders sharing their methods, I am the same generation as you but in the UK
I was born in the UK, partly why I have a funny accent :)
Wow Paul your brazing and finishing is a work of art! I wish we could have the bronze fillets show through the finish to advertise your mastery!
Nice to watch a Grand Master using his skills.
I’ve never seen anyone use nickel silver first but it looks like a great way to go about it👍😊
I learn so much from this. Thanks a lot
Keep em coming
Greetings from Germany
Who needs tv when you got this! It’s amazing the amount of talent that there is in a frame repair.
Marco, thanks for watching and commenting.
New belt day is always sweet.
Such great videos. Thank you for sharing this. So addictive to watch your work Paul. Can’t forget Mitch, with his great camera work too. Oh, and the peacocks too😊
Thank you Darksoda 13.
Wow! The skills you have must have taken decades to perfect, thank you for sharing!
Thanks for watching. 54 years with metal :)
I can't believe I am just finding your you tube channel now, I watched the entire build of your excelsior board track racer years back and was just in awe the entire time!!
That's cool :)
@@paulbrodie where can this be found please?
@@paulgriffin5572 Where can an Excelsior be found?
@@paulbrodie the story of the rebuild?
@@paulgriffin5572 On my website: www.flashbackfab.com
You got the best temperament for teaching, better than anything I've seen. Wished there were more people like this spread everywhere. I'd be on my game
Thank you Justin. Very kind.
Thank you Paul and Mitch
Awesome stuff, Paul. Thank you!
..awesome craftmanship..a plesure to watch..
Thank you.
These are amazing!
Thanks for making these videos. Love the bottle boss fixture.
Just had Omar Khiel do a downtube replacement for me a few months ago; thank you for showing me (partially) what he did! I would love to see it again with lugs & grinding out the tubes !!
Grinding out lugs sounds like a lot of work!
Excelente Trabajo Maestro Un Gran saludo desde Jujuy Argentina.
Hello Argentina!
Thanks Paul. Great video! :)
Superb work again Paul. I still can't get over the fact that you can apply a lot of force to correct and bend a tube, but you can ruin one in an instant with a bar swing ding. Something so thin that has tremendous torsional strength.
funny how the universe works... I had an exact replacement performed on my HT near the end of 2020 by a local frame builder here in Rotorua NZ. Jeff of Jeffson Cycles did an amazing job and it was interesting how Paul demonstrated the work involved here in this vid, and it is a beautiful job to watch and the finish brought a tear to my eyes, you are a masterful craftsman.
Thank you very much. I do like to do the best job I can. That's what gives me a lot of satisfaction!
Fun to watch.
Thanks for taking the time to film and edit your work Paul (& Mitch). You are a great craftsman and an awesome teacher - showing the how as well as the why.
P.S. the TIG tack, nickel along the capillary joint, followed by a brass fillet is ingenious.
Thank you David. It's actually a bronze fillet; I don't use brass because it is so much weaker than bronze.
Nice work, sir! I had the top tube replaced on my road bike just recently, only one tube but it takes more thinking to do it right than building a whole new frameset.
It’s almost annoying how you make it look so easy - kudos👍👍
It’s funny how Paul is always surprised by his own precision: “oh look at that!” - he gets everything just perfect the first try 😁
Thanks Diego. Mitch has a habit of making me look good.
Amazing skills... 👍
Thank you Graham.
I had an old road frame with a badly misaligned rear triangle I was about to scrap but then I stumbled over your alignment video and decided to give it a try and the result was amazing, the frame got perfectly straight and I can ride with no hands on the bars again.
Since then I have watched many of your bike videos and learnt a lot about of how a bike frame is repaired. They are so good and enjoyable to watch! Very informative, the pace is excellent as well as the camerawork. Many thanks!
Anders, that's very cool you aligned you frame and can now ride no hands! Thanks for watching and commenting.
The man!
Thanks for liking our videos 😉
Awe Shucks; I just Trew out my Collection of Vintage Garry Fisher chronology frames. They when to the scrap yard because I don’t have a shop. I got tired of day dreaming I was ever going to do anything with them. I’m seeing this one day to late.
Well, that's a shame. I'm sorry to hear they got recycled..
I wish I knew how to do this! That's a very fine work.
Practice, practice and more practice. I have been making things out of metal for 54 years now. Thanks for watching!
@@paulbrodie Yeah, I can tell that. So I reckon I should jump off the cliff and see what's going on. Pleasure.
Làm tốt lắm, sếp! Tôi vừa mới thay ống đầu trên chiếc xe đạp đường trường của mình, chỉ có một ống nhưng phải suy nghĩ nhiều hơn để làm đúng hơn là xây dựng một bộ khung hoàn toàn mới. Thật khó chịu khi bạn làm cho nó trông thật dễ dàng - kudos
Craftsmanship. Thank you. Les in UK
Thanks for watching!
Hi Paul. I hope all is well! Your work is outstanding and a pure joy to observe!!! Naive inquiry to expand my knowledge. The brazing process requires a lot of heat for an extended period of time. Does this not change the strength of the metal in the immediate region and would TIG welding eliminate that? Thank you!
Paul...I have been watching your videos over the last day or so.. I want to thank you for posting them... I like the way you made your installation tool for the Campy BB guides and other simple fixtures.. I have always found the original ones difficult to use...
I have built a few frames over the last 40 years ( mostly for personal use) and have replaced a few dozen rear dropouts, added brake bosses and tube replacements.. Please tell me what brazing rod that you are using when you are referring to nickle silver.. I enjoy the segments where you braze.. if you can, please put on a tutorial on brazing technique and the supplies you use.. Thank You.. Z
The Nickel Silver rod also goes by 773. The diameter is 1/16", bare rod. A good welding supply shop will know what you want. All along I have been explaining my brazing techniques; I have talked about the size of the cone, angle of the cone, distance of the cone, sanding silver solder, preheating, paste flux, gas fluxer, oxidizing flame, neutral flame, carburizing flame, backwards brazing, fillet brazing, soaking off flux, heat sinks, fillet thicknesses, heat stains, and more. If you go back and check our videos that have brazing, all that information is in there. Having a mentor to help you learn can be very beneficial. I can offer information in these videos, but you are not getting any feedback... Good Luck!
@@paulbrodie Thank You... Z
Good video Paul. Did I hear correctly that you did the first pass with nickel-silver, and then finished the fillet with bronze? Thanks.
Gread sir
Thank you.
Well so much for fixing my bulged downtube. Cool video though
that's a nice hta
Man.. idk why, but watching your vid kinda remain me when my granpha and i had a procject car in 7th grade. In exchange he made me do all the homework so i can continue building the car every weekends in his garage.
Sounds like you had a great grandpa!
i recently found this channel and love it, you are amazing to watch, such great content, can i ask how much that repair would cost ?
Let's say $400 :)
@@paulbrodie thanks for the estimate
What is the benefit of brazing over tig-welding?
It's just a different technique. They are both strong if done correctly. A fillet braze can be more artistic because the lines should flow better.
I like brassing i want to try .i cut beams and flats all day oxy propane.i love bicycles. hello from Greece.
Hello Greece! I like brazing too. Thanks for liking our videos 😉
hi, Paul& thanks for your channel. May i ask - what frame jig is in this video? thanks
Thanks for watching. I made all my own frame jigs and fixtures.
im still learning, thanks for sharing
how about make cable line for hidraulic discbrake cable? i mean outer cable not inner
Not quite sure what you are asking. Hydraulic cable isn't metal, and is readily available...
@@paulbrodie i mean, CABLE LINE in steel frame, for disc brake especially discbrake with hidraulic cable... sorry cz i can't give example for the picture here
@@MasDito Yes it is all possible, but why? To show your friends?
@@paulbrodie of course, i will share ur video to them... and became new subs :D
"Braze-on Holder". :D
I don't know why I never asked before, but where do you like to buy your tubing from? Is there a good Canadian supplier?
In Framebuilding 101 we purchased from Nova Cycles in CA.
Hi Paul, nice work. I got my hands on a 2010 Fixie Inc Race Chip 953 frameset but a mechanic busted the headtube when installing the top headset cup, a local framebuilder said the headtube can be replaced, the replacement tube will be a Tange Prestige, can you mix 'standard' chromoly into stainless steel (Reynolds 953) without issues?
Thanks. I think it's possible, but it would have to be silver soldered, and you had better choose a well-regarded framebuilder, not a novice.You should never go back the that mechanic, and he should pay for your cost of repair.
Paul,I have built 2 lugged frames and forks. Now I would like to attempt a TT replacement on a lugged frame. Wondering about the procedure for preparing the ID of the lugs prior to fit up and brazing?
Tom, I have not done a lot of work with lugged frames, but I do have a little understanding of what is involved. A cheap, heavy lugged frame is probably easier than a finely made frame with super thin lugs. First step is to cut a section out of the top tube. It would seem obvious to heat the lug and top tube and pull out the top tube. That is the danger. It's very hard to get everything hot enough for a clean separation. Very easy to rip the lug and hurt the frame. Best to cut the top tube very short and carefully grind out the top tube remnants. Very time consuming! Good luck.
You should always wear some sort of gloves when welding…….love your work and delivery. You’d make a great shop teacher.
I have started wearing gloves for the videos. I was a shop teacher for 9.5 years. I taught Framebuilding 101 at the University of the Fraser Valley. Thanks for commenting.
What type of torch do you recommend Paul i am making small motorcycles thanks very much
We have two brazing videos, and the torch, rods, and fluxes are all discussed. You get brands and part numbers... Thanks for watching our videos.
I spy with my little eye, a TRS and Gasgas!
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for watching!
He might be speaking of a trials bike.
That is the weirdest cable guide from the rear of the top tube to the centerpull straddle bridge. Was there a shortage of brake cables and cable-stops when this frame was originally made lol ???
No, that is the signature part of a frame, where the framebuilder gets to show his or her's artistry. I think cables and cable stops are ugly and boring. Anyone can do that. It takes very little skill. We're Canadian, eh?
@@paulbrodie Thank you for all that you do! I never got to take a shop class and these videos just satisfy some sort of creative urge with bicycles that I never got out of my system ...
Great video Paul, are you a cyclist yourself?
Brian, yes I can still ride a bicycle and I do get out there. Thanks for watching!
What is all the black powder that fell out when you disconnected the headtube? Where does it come from?
My best guess is some form of rust... Thanks for watching!
This looks like a terrifying process but if you've done it a bunch of times it's easier to do.... My luck I'd be melting the braze and I'd fling a chunk of weld into my boot or something. 😂😂
Edit: I feel like a hole saw is a more difficult way to cut the miter and we should have a drum sander that can be adjusted to different diameters for matching tube sizes.
You do have to be careful and aware of where the molten bronze is going to go. Good gloves, good boots, fire extinguisher..
@@paulbrodie - You'd probably have to spray me w/ the fire extinguisher before I started welding or brazing.... 😂
Hi what’s the story with the picture of the downhill cyclist in your shop ? I’ve seen it before a long time ago I think
Paul, that's John Tomac, one of the best racers ever!
Another excellent content. I'd also like to ask for your advice because my steel frame has two noticeable wrinkles as such 0:21 ( but a bit worst) on both down and seat tube very near the head tube lugs due to heavily hitting something presumably ( the seller was not honest about this issue). There are no frame builders in my country to replace the tubes, so my question is, is it safe to ride it or can it be fixed with replacing the tube? Or should I get the frame welded with steel blade welded to seat tube, top tube and head tube like Cinelli laser/Rossin pursuit head tube, so it will add more strength? Your advice would mean a world to me. My apology for troubling you. Thank you.
The bike might be safe to ride, or it might not, basically impossible for me to say from this far away... I don't like the idea of welding on those extra pieces you discussed. If you are going to ride it, check it every day for cracks. The cracks will develop slowly, the chances of it "breaking quickly" are remote. Steel will also give you a warning by creaking or making other sounds. So, be careful, and check for new cracks very often. Thanks for watching....
Thank you so much Mr. @@paulbrodie. I'm too too, ocean apart, to send my frame to inspect or repair. Best wishes.
At 3:10 the head tube was released. There was a significant amount of ???? that fell to the floor when it came apart. What was it?
It was a bunch of "black stuff". Not really sure what it was. If it was rust, it would have been brown. Can't really give you a satisfactory answer, sorry.
Hi Paul, are you using a stainless wire brush to remove the brass? Or does a normal wire brush work OK? Thanks for this great video!
Just found your comment Jim. Sorry to take so long.. I was using a stainless brush but a regular wire brush will work just as well.
@@paulbrodie Thanks Paul!!!
Thanks for video. Is that an aluminum frame?
No, the frame is steel. Thanks for watching.
what size is the tube, diameter and thickness... , thanks
@@elmadaniboudar755 I'm guessing here, but probably the OD is 1.25" and the wall thickness is 0.9 / 0.6 / 0.9mm.
what size is the tube, diameter and thickness, thanks
Head tube or downtube?
i always wonder if you have to sand the tig spots again before brazing over them? thanks
I think it depends what kind of a Tig welder you are. If you can do a very small, clean Tig weld, then no problem. If you overheat and the weld goes black then the braze will not flow over that... then you will need to sand!
@@paulbrodie thats what i exspected. thanks. i was considering to tack with tig myself some time ago but stayed with braze tacks. would you see any clear upside in welded tacks? i just stumbled over you account and i enjoy watching it even tho i did most of the stuff myself and have my own routines. nice work
@@kokadedru5157 Yes I have stumbled onto videos too. On the front triangle, Tig-tacking is faster, but braze tacks are also fine. On the rear triangle, that's where Tig-tacking starts to shine. Because the heat of the arc occurs so fast, the weld is very quick and spread of the heat zone almost non existent. So, no pulling and pushing on the jig first on one side, then on the other as the first side is cooling. A Tig-tacked frame should come off the jig straighter than a braze tacked frame. That's what I think.
Are there still frame makers that build lugged frames like in the old days? I remember how proud I was to have a frame with Reynolds 531 double butted tubing. I thought I had reached Nirvana :-)
Yes, I believe there are still a few builders who like to work with traditional lugs.
@@paulbrodie
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer. I really enjoy your videos.
@@dwightbrown2808 Thanks for watching :)
What do you mean soaking out the flux
Jerome, I probably said "soak off" the flux. Flux is water soluble, and after heating with a torch, it can get quite hard to remove. You can bead blast it, but you might not have a bead blaster, and it does take time. Everyone usually has access to a hot water tap. If you hold the tube / braze / flux under hot water, it comes off in a few minutes. Now, if you have "burnt" the flux (from overheating..) and it has gone black, for that you will need a bead blaster...
When making the tooling shown in these videos, what kinds of steel (e.g. 1117) or aluminum (e.g. 6061 t6) are used?
Note: 1117 is a resulfurized version of 1018, the usual flavor of cold-rolled. It machines easier, with a good/better finish compared to 1018. It does *Not* like to weld. Brazing *might* be a different story.
Yes, I use 6061 aluminum and 1018 steel, which is cold rolled. Have not heard of 1117 until now. For easy machining we have cold rolled with lead. It machines beautifully but is not so great for welding. 303 Stainless has sulphur in it that makes it easier to machine, but is still strong.
@@paulbrodie 1117 is kind of between 1018 and 1215 as far as machining. It’s not nearly as inclined to rust as 1215, though.
1117 case-hardens nicely. This helps with abrasive wear.
A true master at work.
This is why I don't buy carbon frames!
I like steel too.
Should read how to replace damaged down tube on your bike that has fillet brazed joints. Probably less than one percent of of the frames that are made today are fillet brazed.
Well, if you want to be picky, that is your choice.
@@paulbrodie I still found the video interesting after watching it.
@@davestambaugh7282 Very good. Thank you.
Are you related to Griff Rhys Jones
I do not know that person sorry.
Why do we never see the infamous Mitch?
Mitch was in our very last video, "We're Back!" I guess you haven't watched that one...
@@paulbrodie I'm getting old. I may have seen it and forgot. chers
@@paulbrodie I will take a look see now.
@@thinkpadBentnoseTheBlind It's the only video we put out in the last 158+ days. I have a beard. Kind of hard to miss this one...
it's almost as if you've done this before
It's true!
I couldnt see anything even wrong, i guess if i rode id care about the wrinkle
The wrinkle in the tube means that it has been overstressed, and is now weaker than stock.
Heat travels to the largest mass pluss you left that chuck key in the head .. back to read your safety notes, and no talkback as compacency will kill you eventually on these machines 😂
"complacency"
@@paulbrodie 😁 engineers are not realy known for thier spelling lol
Had to stop watching due to the numerous adverts. Shame!
I would have straightened that thing without removing or replacing anything. What a waste.
I would happily watch a video off you doing just that. Always happy to learn new things.