MK64's Rubber Band Powered AI
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- If you have some type of epilepsy from flashing lights, try not to look at the top half of the video, where the sky is...
A request from DarkBowserN64. Video example showing how much rubber banding the AI in this game can have.
P.S. The 2 and 5 in the game interface look the same because of an emulation glitch.
And if you don't know, rubber band AI refers to when computer players speed up when they fall behind (or ahead) in a racing game.
Codes Used in This Video:
Infinite Items P1
80165F5D 00??
80165F8A 00??
Values for ??:
0D Double Mushroom
09 Fake Item Box
0B Ghost
0A Invincible Star
08 Lightning
01 Single Banana
03 Single Green Shell
0C Single Mushroom
05 Single Red Shell
0F Super Mushroom
04 Triple Green Shell
0E Triple Mushroom
06 Triple Red Shell
02 Banana Bunch
07 Blue Spiny Shell
P1 on 2nd Lap
81164390 0000
81164392 0001
True Hard Mode
81163344 FFFF
80163349 0008
8016334A 0008
![[TAS] N64 Mario Kart 64 by weatherton in 20:33.32](/img/n.gif)
If you have some type of epilepsy from flashing lights, try not to look at the top half of the video, where the sky is...
I added a poll to the video, so hopefully that message shows up on mobile.
ShimiDia
Why are you finally commenting this on your video that was made 6 years ago?
This is one of my most popular videos, the comments and views just don't stop for some reason. And despite me having a warning in the description and as an annotation, people keep commenting that l should put in a warning.
I figure if l put a warning in a third place, more of the comments will acknowledge that l'm trying...! At least, l hope so...
ShimiDia randomly clicked in this video
Hello
Thin video got shown to be when I opened the TH-cam app. I think it's a recommendation.
Annotations are discontinued and can no longer be added or edited. Expect them to disappear from videos on desktop without warning some day.
There is nothing less fun than losing a 150cc race because Toad somehow accelerated to light speed from second place and passed you at the last second in a straight line.
Game: GOD SPEED, LITTLE TOAD! GOD SPEED!!!!!
I dunno, getting railroaded by a dozen items one after another and being stuck in 8th-12th in the later Mario Karts is infinitely less fun to me than finishing 2nd to Toad in a nail-biter ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
like yeah, rubberband AI blows in any game it's featured in, but at least the AI in MK64 aren't allowed to use shells
@@mcj88 they can use the blue one though, but they don't use it often
@@MrSasukeSusanoo - I've never seen the AI in MK64 use a blue shell
@@mcj88 well they do, it's low probability but they do
3:23 There's something just magical about hearing Luigi zoom by the camera whilst shouting "Hoho!" blissfully.
NinjoJinjo lol
XD
Sounds like he’s really having fun
In F-Zero X the AI would rubber band so hard they would fly off the track and die. This was very obvious due to the fact that if you fall off the track you are removed from the race.
Swood _ what the hell is rubber banding
Rubber-banding is when games try to decrease the progress gap between two players using means not usually available to players. For example, in Mario Kart games, the ai racers will speed up when they are not within the sight of human players. Another example is the bullet bill power up in some Mario Kart games. The intention of rubber-banding usable by human players is to make comebacks more likely. The intention of rubber-banding only available to ai controlled characters is to make the challenge of succeeding more equal for players of different skill levels.
Thirty-Six
Yeah, basically it's just a way for the computer players to give you a challenge if you're in first, but also gives you a chance to pass them if you're slacking.
Think of it as a rubber band connected to you and the other racers. The further ahead you are from them, the more the rubber band stretches out. The rubber band wants to close, and in order to give a sense of challenge, it brings the behind part towards the ahead part. It can be annoying aggrivating to see opponents catch up to you like it's nothing, only to have them slow down when they're ahead of you.
It's a trick designed to make racing games more tense and keep things exciting no matter how well you're doing.
Of course, it does technically mean the AI is cheating.
Though if you know anything about game AI you know what AI cheats in 9 out of 10 games.
And usually the ones it DOESN'T cheat in are things a computer is so much better at than a human anyway it really doesn't matter.
A lot of AI is also more properly considered 'artificial stupidity' than 'artificial intelligence', given that often the real trick to designing good AI for games is to make them fail at things, but in a believable way.
AI that played as well as it could would often be unfair to humans.
However AI that makes weird mistakes looks unconvincing.
So a lot of effort goes into causing the AI to make mistakes, but making sure that it makes mistakes that would make sense for a human to make...
Rubber banding is less about AI being good or bad, and more just about making racing games more exciting.
(because without it the reality is a racing game tends to either result in you winning by an overwhelming margin or losing by an equally overwhelming margin; often determined by your actions in the first few seconds or minutes of the race.)
The back of wario's kart looks like a frowny face and now i can never unsee it
Goddammit
?
Well, everyone's kart.
I always saw this as a kid
I hate you now that's all I see
Rubber band AI - Playing 200cc BEFORE it was cool
T Plays games
More like 400cc
More like V8 Bi-turbo 980 Horse Power F1's
@@ProtoPropski nah 600 CC, theres a video of a mod showing off 600CC and the map icons go the same speed as in this video.
@@FreeAimDog Try 1000cc
@@shinystarmiestudios4179 i wish i could man
This wouldn't bother me, except sometimes this happens when they're in first place too. Once they're so far away you can't see them, forget about it. They're fucking gone. You just have to HOPE they hit something.
fexod you're wrong. Trust me. I bought this game the day it came out when I was a teenager, and I've played it the hell out of it. If you don't believe me, download an emulator and play it yourself. There are moments when you get a group out in the lead or even just 1 guy in the lead. They might go about the same speed as you when they're visible in front of you. Once they're out of sight they get a boost, and you have to pray they hit something. It happens all the time. Not all the Mario Karts are like this, but this one is.
fexod well I'm not sure if there's another term for it or if it's another issue entirely, but it does occur. It's not a question of skill. It's something else entirely.
+fexod There's another video on this, it's something about cheating AI on Rainbow Road. When characters aren't rendered, they no longer follow the game's logic, so they sometimes speed up far beyond their normal speed.
THEY GO AT FUCKING INSANE SPEEDS ON 150CC and I almost always get 2nd on rainbow road cuz they usually escape. They have to hit like 5 items for me to get them on screen
ikr and when you're in first place, even if they're like a mile behind, they will still find a way to catch up. try Special Cup 150CC, and you'll flip.
Man, the AI in this game was absurd. Back when my girlfriend and I used to play 64 all the time, we saw some crazy nonsense. The game chooses two AI to ALWAYS tail you worse than the rest, the AI don't need to hit item blocks to get items, and we saw Bowser get carried halfway down the track by Lakitu on Toad's Turnpike once because he had lagged too far behind.
Almost every Mario cart game has 2 ai players that out preform the rest but it comes down to rubber banding if it’s actually bad or not
You should see the AI in _Top Gear Rally_
In the Jungle course, you can position yourself just far enough behind AI drivers to see them cheating in corners. Normally, cars will slide sideways through the corners because the course is dirt. This sliding decreases your speed, but it's unavoidable.
However, if AI cars are far enough away from you, they will break the laws of physics in corners -- entering from a straightaway, the car will maintain it's straightline orientation, but will "go around the bend." Once it's halfway through the turn, the car "blips" into a new orientation so that's facing out of the turn (aligned with the exit straight).
@@crazycanyon3028 In the SNES version the "fastest" AI driver is whichever driver is 2nd place in the rankings. For example, if Yoshi is 2nd in points and drops back to 8th place during a race, he will "rocket ahead" all the way back up to 2ND PLACE, but will then slow down to maintain that position.
Likewise, if Bowser is 4th in the rankings and he falls behind, he will speed ahead until he reaches 4th place, but will then slow down so he maintains that position. None of the AI drivers from 3rd place to 8th place will attempt to overtake one another.
Best evidence of this is the guy who got a world record time on one of the tracks and came in second to toad.
I guess Toad has the world record then
Do you have a link or source to the WR Toad loss?
TheBrawlUnit Well... He IS the best after all...
Simon Nelsen I see nothing about anyone beating a world record while being in second absolutely anywhere. My guess is the guy didn't actually beat a world record and just made a video or took a picture and changed the time by editing a value in an emulator or something.
"The guy" "one of the tracks" I call BS
What about in that one level with the train, forget the name. Where you can beat the train in the 1st lap if you get near perfect drift boosts. If you don't beat the train, the CPUs wait with you but if you do beat it, they just phase right through it and chase you down like the dog you are...
TwIsTeDEnKo It's called Kalamari Desert
TwIsTeDEnKo blame nintendo
That's always pissed me off. I like to turn around after I cross the track and just dare them to try and pass through it while I'm watching.
Another thing I hate is how they don't react to being hit by items the way they should when they're off camera. If you hit one with a shell, you can see his image on the map do a quick little bump and then instantly start moving again, whereas if it happens to you, or a CPU who' in sight, it bounces up and down several times. Fucking cheaters.
I played Forza Horizon 3 and I swear the AI practically do the same thing. If you don't see them they don't adjust speed to the terrain or turn. They neglect it entirely and rubber band to you. If that's not artificial difficulty I don't know what is.
@@cptnoremac You might not be aware but the player can do that also in Mario kart 64, if a cpu his off screen they tap the gas to recover faster, the animation his still going on, but because the cpu his off screen you don't see the animation, I'm really sure they can also do the break technic to completly not spin out from a bannana peel, I remember one time toad was a cpu rivial and when he appear from behind me I saw a note appear above his head, that his what happen if you completely stop a spin out with breaks, the condition for this you must be in a strait line when you heard your about to slip you must not turn and hit the break, this will not work if a bananna peel land on your head, because that his instant spin out, you can start acceleration immediatly after the spin out if you tap the gas, the same with other crash, even obstical crash.
Peach stalled in the perfect position. It's amazing how she unrealistically goes from 60 mph to 0 mph, in the span of 10-15 feet.
THE ENDING WAS PERFECT
"I'm-a Wario!"
*runs into chain chomp*
Not shown afterward: "OH MY GOD!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"
You know what made me SO angry in Mario Kart 64 when I was playing it? Well, in the Special Cup at 150cc, when I was playing as Luigi on the Final Lap, driving on the bridge next to the waterfall. I used my shell and knocked off Toad from the Bridge, but when I completed the lap, Toad BOLTED through my way and he got 3rd, I was in 4th place... THAT IS CHEATING! THIS IS RIDICULOUS! I never expected this or any other type of crap would happen, and I thought about it, just now!
Even with their cheap tactics and OP physics, the A.I. can still never hope to defeat Wayro.
Also, lol at Peach hitting herself with a Banana.
Opening lightning barrage = SWEET SWEET KARMA.
I love the part where the item box theme constantly plays
Yoshi had the strongest rubber-band AI, in my experience. The dude was a monster. Peach was pretty close as well. Luigi was the most inconsistent. He'd either be right up there rubber-banding to me on Peach's level, or be 7th or dead last just as often.
No one else really stood out. Maybe Wario every once in a while and DK or Toad on rare occasions. Almost never saw Bowser or Mario being a threat. In fact, Mario was the 2nd most common to be dead last, after Luigi, with DK being a close 3rd.
*These notes are from 150cc, though Extra is the mode real men played. Toad's Turnpike. 'nuff said.
(Couldn't stand 50 cc at all, and never really bothered with 100cc after beating modes for it)
*My AI threat ranking list (from my experience):*
1. _Yoshi_ (most consistent by far, but I mained him so it wasn't seen unless I chose another character)
2. _Peach_
3. _Luigi_ (inconsistent, 50/50; other times dead last)
4. _Toad_
5. _Wario_ (for some reason was 5th most of the time)
6. _DK_
7. _Mario_ (most consistently 7th-8th place)
8. _Bowser_ (almost always middle of the pack; 4th-6th)
Xeroskia ummm what is rubber banding no ones ever told me?
That might be because of the rivals mechanic. Certain cpu characters will be given more skill. If you were playing toad peach, luigi, and yoshi would be the most likely characters to be your rivals.
@@johnmclean2951 its when ai gets insane speed out of nowhere
In case you were wondering, the F-Zero series is much worse when it comes to rubber banding.
It's not rubber banding there, they don't get slower when you are in the back. They're always cheating bastards.
TheLaXandro
Okay, maybe I should rephrase. I was mainly talking about the Grand Prix Mode in X and GX.
That is, except for Black Shadow, Blood Falcon and Samurai Goroh on Master class in X...they can surpass whatever speed you're going and they don't use their booster *once* to do so.
I've also noticed that whenever a CPU is hit with an item, and they're out of your draw distance view, they won't do their tumbling or flipping animation. They just stop for half a second then instantly continue at full speed.
And even when they DO perform the tumbling/flipping animations, they still take half the time to recover that any human would. Turning doesn't slow them down, either.
That moment when luigi pulls a bannana out, and mario slips on it, I lost it. Mario: MAMA MIA!!
This is the most prominent reason why I grew out of this game. The CPUs are ridiculously unbalanced to the point where the game is just flat out annoying. This type of programming is unacceptable even for the 90s.
+James McGraw agree totally! too many ppl wear nostalgia glasses and think this game is the best in series, but its far from it. I used to love it but lost interest.
+James McGraw hardcore mario kart fans will always love this one the most because it is BY FAR the most challenging. the rreason you don't like this one the best is because you get your ass kicked by the ai lol
the programmers made the ai unbalanced on purpose, unlike in the new games where you just stay in first for the entirety of every race. where's the fun in that?
+SuperSaiyan Ganga I am a hardcore Mario Kart fan, and I personally still don't like this. It's not the difficulty that's the issue, because Mario Kart 64 isn't hard for me. I'm having more challenges with Mario Kart 8 200cc than anything else, yet I'm actually a monster at it. Also, there is no way Mario Kart 64 is harder than Mario Kart Wii.lol.
My issue with the A.I. in MK64 is that it's annoying and forced. I like difficulty in games, but if it's not seamlessly difficult than I enjoy it less. It's like everyone under 3rd place drives like a turtle when they could easily go faster. If you knock a CPU that's in 2nd or 3rd place off the track , they end up in last place, and then 15 seconds later they are back in 2nd or 3rd again. Sure it's kind of difficult, but I don't find that particular type of programming fun at all...it's just annoying, like swatting at a fly that keeps coming back, yet every other driver purposely drives like they are scared to go any faster.
I like A.I. that's challenging but behaves reasonably. I would like it if every driver raced like they meant it, and they couldn't drive any faster than the actual player, but instead used their skills and a larger variety of items to get into first place...something that the newer Mario Karts do a whole lot better.
James mah boi, you put that beautifully. Well said, son! You just described how stupid the AI is and what bothers me, and probably everyone else nowadays that can look critically at MK64. I fully agree and it doesnt' make 64 bad, it just means it aged badly in many ways. But once again, you know exactly what ur saying. thumbs up.
James McGraw honestly, I've played the mario kart games for wii, even 200cc on mario kart 8. it's still so easy. the 64 version is the only game where when I'm facing the ai, that there's a chance that i won't come in first. if you're seriously annoyed at having a rival in single player, than you're clearly struggling against the ai.
most of my friends prefer the wii version because they find the ai too hard to beat in n64, which is clearly the case for you if you're struggling at a wii version of mario kart. i don't me to be a dick, but that's really the only reason someone would actually hate the ai in mario kart 64
4:44 Wow, ALL of them throw bananas at the end.
I chose the fastest kart in Mario kart 8, and I've noticed the game always picks a winning CPU, and makes them faster than the player. Toad was try the winning cpu, and he could easily beat me with a very slow kart combo. Yeah.
Daniel Conley Its really noticeable when you're on 200cc and you have the perfect kart stats but there's always a shit character with the worst kart keeping up/beating you.
Have you been livng under a rock? Its been the same for all mario kart games, take mario kart ds, for example, you can have bowser's hurricane and get massive speed, or have yoshi or dry bones drifting skills, and you'll STILL have 1 or 2 racers trailing behind you, my god, the rubber banding in this series is unreal, fucking hate rubber banding
They should reconsider how they program the A.I.
I was playing custom track grand prix on Mario kart wii. Using bowser jr on the mach bike (one of the fastest vehicles) and Baby daisy was a lap behind using a terrible vehicle and was going way faster
If you could easily beat everyone with a kart combo then what's the point? If the ai was different, you would be complaining about how easy it is
thats nothing. i just played toads turnpike and the entire cast was shooting bananas everywhere without ever pulling over into the item lane
legodude305 the AI in this game don't get items from the item boxes, they're given to them periodically
AI never gets Mushrooms or Shells. And yea, they receive items every once in a while rather than getting them directly from the Boxes
in the SNES game they never picked up nor used any of the items the player did.
Rather each AI had a signature item and basically just spammed it everywhere.
One of the weirder aspects of this was that nearly every AI item in the game is something the player can never use. (though many of them resemble player items in behaviour. Especially banana peels for some reason.)
whats different about the AI versions?
Peach and Toad in SMK both have the poison mushroom, which is dropped or thrown like a banana peel but causes the human-controlled character who hits it to shrink as if hit with lightning.
In Mario Kart Super Curcuit the effect is ridiculous, though it only effects the 2nd placed AI character. Its speed will be 50-100% faster than the rest of the cast.
When you take the big bumper shortcut in Ribbon Road you can actually see the 2nd racer going at like, triple speed in the distance at one point.
Yeah I noticed, but fortunately it's not as violent as SMK of MK64
True story: In Mario Kart 8 the sky map, I was half the track ahead of everyone in 150cc when suddenly they came flying all at me faster than bullet bills and utterly crushed me.
4:46
Dat AI though.
ArkaneEvangale What are they doing? Racing? Or are they having a banana peel-throwing contest?
Peach hit herself with her own banana. xD
ArkaneEvangale aaaAAHA
ArkaneEvangale NICE SHOT
They're all trying to aim for Wario by throwing their bananas ahead of him. It's TOO CONVENIENT that they all have bananas at that very moment and that none of them set them behind to sabotage other racers. It's all about targeting the player.
2:48 No one noticed that Mario is in front of Luigi, 2:52 Mario slips on a banana (look at the map) but he is invisible and at 3:00 Mario appears mysteriously behind.
I absolutely adore Mario Kart 64, but this and the lack of music in multiplayer is serious bullshit.
K-C Rhoder the Sailor Mayun They might've had an excuse in the 90's, but they couldn't be bothered to make a little tweak for the virtual console? Nintendo keeps trying to get us to buy the same game 20 times. They could at least do a little work on it.
i know this is a 2 month old comment but tweaking an old project file is very unlikely, see VC is just putting up the games onto the system, not going through the project files themselves and editing them. It would be like trying to take apart a .exe instead of the program file.
K-C Rhoder Sees the World! Actually it's not cartridge limitations, it's more or less system limitations. To my knowledge, the way the sound channels work on the N64, is they use up about 1% of the CPUs power per every channel added in. Music uses up multiple channels, if I'm not mistaken (at least 2 channels if it's strictly stereo, more if it's complex and has different sound layers) If you add too many channels in, you will get to a point where it will start affecting the frame rate (Frames Per Second) so in multiplayer, they decided to cut the music to save CPU resources.
Not Audio channels. CPU time.
There's 100 audio channels on the n64 there's no way that's not enough.
Problem is each one takes 1% CPU time.
My guess is with rendering 4 different views there simply isn't enough CPU time.
Considering that rendering 4 different views is going to be expensive at the best of times (not 4 times the work, but certainly closer to that than not), and you struggle to keep the framerate up.
Most of the times, Nintendo put out the same game twice or 3 times... -The Original, -A remake on a newer console and VC... Does not mean you have to buy it. They do that to give new players a chance to play it because they know trying to purchase an original copy is sometimes too pricey.
I DON'T EVEN HAVE EPILEPSY AND IT'S BEING TRIGGERED!
Why do they always throw bananas when they pass you? Like, everytime.
Grand Prix? More like
Band Prix
Kill me
NesstendoYT more like Band Pricks >:(
NesstendoYT another suicide joke very funny
Banned Pricks is what you're looking for...
So you're telling me that the farther away you are from the A.I., the faster they go? I wish my car did that.
No, if a player gets in first place, the A.I will automatically speed up.
@@iverson64_ Thats how Formula 1 works
Basically if the A.I. is off camera or too far away from you that they don't load in they start cheating with ridiculous speed. Also you're rivals (the A.I. that usually are in 2nd and 3rd) will get a random "catch-up speed" when they fall too far behind just enough to pass you. It doesn't only happen in first place as AI behind you will occasionally get speed boosts on straight aways. no matter what place you are in. It just happens more often in first with every few seconds the AI gets a super speed boost. I've even seen ai crash head onto walls and as soon as they pass from my view they teleport to me right on my tail!
Toad fucking cheats, no surprise there
I'M THE BEST!!! **in screeching sound**
+MegaZsolti
was gonna comment the same but here
Toad: * INHALES *
*_I'M THE BEST!!!_*
I sorta knew this already, in terms of items. It works for players too, you just get into say, 7th or 8th and you get stuff like the shell that fucks up the leaders or the power star. But on the DS version *gulp*.......Bullet Bill.
Well that's normal. Of course the last position gets the best items. What he is talkin about is that the AI just gets faster when they are behind. No matter how good you drive, the AI will always be right behind you. You can't pull away.
well duh its supposed to be like that lol
+Killerkarpfen1990 *cough* Multi-Zap *cough*
We used to call this “Volksverdummung” as 5-10 year old childs playing this. We never knew about the rubber banding though but tried to find out why they were so quick.
I think once or twice we caught AI’s teleporting lol but in 1000+ hours of playing this game throughout my entire childhood.
Kirby Air Ride also has some sort of rubber-banding system, only that there are two differences: 1, it is optional (by setting "Speed Help" to Off, Weak or Strong in the game's ruleset), and 2: Kirby Air Ride's rubber-banding (when turned on) also applies to the human players as well, so it makes the game more fair for each entrant that way.
Look at Peach "I'm not suposed to beat DK :O"
it looks like she went so fast, the she ran into the banana as she threw it.
0:25 It sounds like there was a driveby and everyone was getting shot except wario
I like how Peach keeps getting punked ten feet from the finish line. She is the me of this video.
Good golly. Playing this game on NSO for the first time, and I constantly get baffled on how they're always right behind me. I even looked at the map and saw them speeding up right after they get hit by an item.
This really explains it.
2:50 Mario goes invisible and stops only waiting to pass Wario once he’s passed him
I know he fell out of bounds, but l don't know *how* he fell out.
@@ShimiDia Atleast it isn’t “Let’s teleport the racer behind the camera and give them a speed boost”
@@basedostrich l get a notification for every comment, but l'm not on daily, just whenever l have time to watch stuff. However, l don't get notifications for comment *replies* unless they're directly at me or l was part of the thread.
More like most unsatisfying video ever. Man I wanted to the item on the top to appear with that bing! sound.
What's the most annoying is if you have a friend that is really amazing. Then all of the AI will rubber band to them and leave you in 5th or something
+fexod That means that if you get hit by something once or twice, then they will be gone forever, never to be seen again
OK man chill. Maybe they're just better than me at times
Pfft it's fine. Do you ever have it when in one race you smash the AI, and in the next one they're literally running circles around you?
+fexod I think they do rubber band if they're ahead. If you're in 2nd or 3rd on 150cc, you'll notice that the AI will drive at a much faster speed and will pull far ahead of you once they're out of sight. They'll stay in 1st place unless you can use an item to get them in your sights again
So, depending how long you wait on the character select is your rival. Any proof and does this work on other mario karts?
Almost twenty years later, the same exact thing happens in Grand Theft Auto V.
But at least that is explaine... and players are not AI
Meanwhile in MKDS the CPUs are hilariously easy to beat once you learn about snaking.
**at the very end**
"I'm-a Wario!"
*PWOOT*
1:22 item machine broke
This kinda reminds me... I wish there was a God mode in Mario Kart. An unlimited supply of whatever items you want whenever you want, the ability to control your speed at any time, the ability to change the AI difficulty whenever you want, and the ability to turn the lowered traction of grass / sand / others off before the match.
If that happened, the power would go to my head, example, multiplayer with no CPUs. Spamming blue shells would seriously annoy my opponent enough to rage quit
SArpnt or it could have a separate online mode called chaos racing or something
MK7 still has rubberbanding-Tested it with the Wuhu Mountain Glitch on mirror mode, and by the time I reached the finish, I had Wario up my backside again.
who needs a Bullet Bill when you can have a rubberband!
Plus, how when you they get squashed, they come back up immediately, while when it happens to you, you stay down longer.
It may not having the best racing but Mario Kart 64 will always have the best battle mode.
Olra Actually that honor goes to Double Dash.
*+Grofy* Nah, I feel MK8D wins this one with its plethora of options. Lacks stages, but has all of the modes from past games. Even has a Double Dash course if you need something from the game. Though, I'm disappointed it chose a 3DS battle courses as one of the retro options.
Double Dash and Deluxe have the best battle modes
Always knew this was the case. Thank you for providing clear and absolute evidence that it is so. Another thing to note is obstacles affect them less when they're off-screen. All you have to do is enable the racer position view as you have it and compare their delay from impacts on and off screen.
Hah, Need for speed carbon is bullshit rubberband AI as well. The ai's will get infront of you just to stop you from getting ahead, and then once you've crashed or anything the AI in front will get a speed boost. Forget about taking a shortcut if an AI is beside you too. he'll slow down to your speed and keep heading straight and make you slam into a wall. Its bullshit.
Try looking at the map. They speed up even before you crash, they just don't brake after you do.
It's so true. It's painful, I remember to this day as I've played NFS most wanted in PS2, In order to beat Earl I had to force him to crash into the little statue or something otherwise he went in front of me and then I had to restart the entire race.
I'm sure Forza had this rubberband trick as well. Once they got ahead, they'd simply blast off into the sunset.
Fast neo racing and the switch port has the most bullshit rubberbanding
Or just take NfS: The Run, where I have literally seen a mini-van/suv-sort-of-car keeping pace with the racecar that you, as the player, are driving and that was spun out, turned 180 degrees, goes off screen behind you with no signs of further spinning but was turned in the right direction and accelerated back to 200 km/h in, like, 1 1/2 second, top.
One thing about this AI is that it will always choose two other racers that will always be neck and neck with you. No matter how many times you blast them with shells, spin then out with banana peels, they will always be right behind you no matter what. I swear I was playing this the other night, I hit Toad will a shell who was right behind me, 2 seconds later he was right back behind me. How!?
This happens in Jak X, when I'm racing and the other guys are nearby they are so slow and I can overtake them easily, but if I crash or anything then the AI will all of a sudden be half a lap in front of me, I then play FLAWLESSLY cutting every corner with TAS accuracy and getting every speed boost power-up, and they just get further and further ahead of me...
lraven _ Thats not rubberbanding, Rubberbanding applies when they are Behind you, not in front
In poorly programmed games it can apply to all enemies, that have a certain distance to you, even those in front of you.
What basically happens in Jak X is that once they stop rendering on the player's set distance, they can practically go top speed. That includes around sharp turns, inclines, ramps that lead into long jumps. They literally "bypass" the mechanics and physics. The only way I was able to beat Hero Mode for Story races' was to always be around 2-3 place and NEVER let them de-render themselves off-screen, then at the very end get 1st.
I've never heard of rubberbanding only ever applying to people in a losing position. You can apply it to a player in a winning position in order to bring them closer to a losing position, that's not magically something other than rubberbanding.
the constant use of brakes really gets on my nerves for some reason
I hate how in later MK games like DS and MK7 a random CPU is selected as what I call your " points chaser opponent" and essentially almost always finish 2nd as soon as you cross the finish line in 1st even if they weren't in 2nd at the time.
BASEJOCK11, I have seen that so many times, and lost to them a ton on 150cc.
"boodelydoodelydoo boodelydoodlydoo boodelydoodelydoo"
Truly hell
Yoshi would've been the best character for a rubber-band AI video. Yoshi is the lightest character and therefore goes the fastest to everyone else.
People actually look at this? is this code available on the gameshark for the N64 version?
jose guzman im pretty sure
also why are you asking me
Because I want the CPU to be even harder. It's too easy.
Still don't understand how yoshi is light. Hes bigger than Mario in like every game
I have memories of using the golden mushrooms next to AI would only to look over and see they were still beside me. The AI could be maddening.
They might've had something with the rubber band AI in this game though, I think this was the best Mario Kart.
I remember the first review I read of Wipeout Pure saying that it had no rubber-band AI even though it was way more obvious there than in the Mario Kart series. For example, getting the speed boost off the starting line automatically means that all the computer-controlled racers get a boost too. Not only that, but you can race a perfect lap and still not be in first by the end of the first lap. Deliberately mistime your start off the line so that you start from dead last and you can easily take the lead by the middle of the first lap. Of course, the rubber-band AI will kick in so it's still best to hang back until the last lap.
Red and blue shells make this even more cancerous in mk8 deluxe
Darruler I don't think it's much of a problem in the newer games
The ai is just dead slow in mk8 deluxe so it doesnt really matter except in online ofc
Rubber band is not existend in mario cart 8
Έκτορας Ελευθεριάδης *rubber band doesn't exist in mario kart 8*
@@ΈκτοραςΕλευθεριάδης "Rubber band is not existend in mario cart 8"
Then explain this: th-cam.com/video/ci58Ie0ZXVE/w-d-xo.html
Good video. Always wondered about how bad the rubber-banding was in MK64. Despite it, many people have fond memories of the game so it goes to show how unfair mechanics don't always make a bad game.
Super Mario Kart's rubberband drives me crazy!! I've mastered every track in the game. I drift every curve perfectly and still I can't get the first place in 150cc.
They don’t even need item boxes to get items, someone literally caught the computers using items before the first item box in rainbow road
As someone who's not good at consistently hitting the Rainbow Road jump, playing Mario GP against someone who can is a _pain,_ because not only is 1st place too far ahead to catch at that point, but I also have to deal with the other 6 AI drivers all rubberbanding to catch up to them...
I actually LIKE rubber band AI. It may seem unfair, but take a game like "Pac-Man World Rally" that doesn't have it. After about a month of playing that game, I could easily get in first on every race on the hardest difficulty. The AI probably wasn't the smartest anyway, but I actually lapped the computers at some points. As long as it's not too crazy, I think that rubber band AI is a good thing.
Definitely agree with you. Obviously back in the 90s, it was probably near-impossible to code an AI that was challenging WITHOUT cheating, so a challenging AI that cheats would be better than a super easy AI that doesn't.
Pac-Man World Rally was fun and all, but it was too easy, for me. I was like eight when I got it!
MegaSupernova888 Did Crash Team Racing have AI? Im pretty sure it didn't... I'm not even sure...
MegaSupernova888 is this code available on the gameshark for the N64 version?
+MegaSupernova888 it's bad.
Rubber banding only punishes players for playing good. There should be set difficulties that people can work towards beating. It's just a way to avoid programming smarter AI.
And yeah, after playing a game for a month you beat it. Stop the presses, we have a heinous crime to cover.
Sometimed the AI even have 0 respawn time, it happens to me that I blow off someone of the road into the water with a shell and just a moment later they're right behind me, their respawn is instant if you don't see them
Would be amazing if the source code would be released so we would had been able to look at the functions that lead to the AI behaviours...
Well, I remember a video showing this in detail. But this video help us to get a general idea. Great work.
You think this is bad? You should have seen Need for speed hot pursuit 2 (I think it was 2 anyways) on the the PS2. witnessed a race where the AI got so far behind it forced itself to break mach 2 to catch up. At the end of the race where it gave the top speeds of each racer, the AI went over 1,300 mph apparently.
WOW! WTF?! That's nuts!
Anyway... speaking of Need For Speed.... this reminds me of NFS Most Wanted and race up against the Blacklist racer called "Earl".
I bloody swear that if you are NOT in the first place at the end of the final sprint, this dude will outspeed you, and you won't EVER be able to catch up to him.
If he gets in front, just restart... There is no other way...
I had to induce a crash on him on a statue thingy in order to win.
Not to mention, his car in comparison to what your car's stats can be at given time and moment, makes no sense! He can reach such speeds, especially on such tight turns, AND still gaining speed.
Hahahaha thats great
The same happens in NFSU, the racers can catch up you if they are so behind, in NFSU 2 that was fixed, even in hard mode you can overlap them if you have great skill to drive.
@@deoxysandmew2162 the AI somehow always turns a lot better,Turn on Autodrive using Extra options,and watch how the bloody AI turn.
After dusting off the old N64 and finishing the last 100 & 150cc races I didn’t get gold in, it was crystal clear how brutal the AI in this game could be. If you fell to third, fourth, or fifth, kiss your chances of catching back up to first goodbye because the best I could get was second in those scenarios. Still, as stressful it was to maintain first as my opponents steadily caught up, it felt better getting first with a clean win and not having to dread constant red and blue shells like Wii and Double Dash. Sort of made the game feel more realistic when you had to hope certain characters drop out of the rankings by their finishing position in order to get lucky and take the points to win first overall in the cup.
No drifting as Wario? Why are you surprised you get left behind?
Exactly! I have a rather easy time sometimes overlapping the last 4 CPU players. Its only the 2nd and 3rd place CPU that become insane with the rubberbanding. Sometimes the 2nd place CPU rubberbands so hard he leaves the 3rd place CPU behind.
Let's look at it by base stats. Acceleration: Light > Medium > Heavy. Top speed: Light < Medium < Heavy. At the point he was racing, he was at top speed. There is no reason he would need to drift to catch up to Luigi who is a Medium class kart. His base speed should catch Luigi with little problem.
Tess Verres turning without drifting makes you lose speed
_AKSHOOALEE_ in MK64 the lightweights had the highest top speed. That's why all world records and TAS videos use Toad, Yoshi, or Peach. From the Super Mario wiki:
"Lightweight drivers have the highest acceleration and highest top speed. They receive the most speed from Mini-Turbos and lose the least amount of speed when turning or drifting. Additionally, only Lightweights (and the heavyweight character Bowser) can use the triple-gas acceleration recovery technique (tapping the gas button three times and then holding to accelerate more quickly). The single downside to lightweight characters is that they can spin out from contact with heavier characters." (tl;dr the lightweights were broken as shit)
Middleweights and heavyweights had the same top speed, so yeah, he'd never catch Luigi as Wario without drifting.
The AI is something like this
When you're ahead of them: (Insert classical/slow music)
When they pass you: (EUROBEAT INTENSIFIES)
Ah yes unfair AI. I really loved how cheap some of the fighting games were, Mortal Kombat 3 in particular. Street Fighter also did have some cheap stuff with moves that required the player to charge down or back. The computer however could execute them at any time while walking forward sometimes. Guile did the flash kick immediately after walking in on you in the original SF2 quite a bit. How about impossibly fast repeatable hold attacks? Like Blanka's neck bite on overdrive which I see they brought back in Hyper Street Fighter
I'm pretty sure that the rubber banding happens when the CPU's are off screen. Someone explained this in a MK64 CPU tournament video. None of the CPU's rubber banded bc they were always on the screen. Hence why you really didn't see the rubber banding in effect at first
I am still confused on what rubber banding AI means
+Lynnette Rosas It means that the AI's speed and navigation is based entirely on the player's speed and position on the track. The AI almost never behaves as if they are another player.
It's when the A.I skill is based off how your doing in a game. It's made so that you don't get too far ahead of your opponent. For example, you can be up by 50 points in NBA2k in the 3rd but only win by like 5 or sometimes lose the game entirely. If you've played Midnight Club LA you'll know what I'm talking about.
Computer players get a game breaking advantage over you (in Mario Kart more speed) when they're far behind.
Rubber banding items (better items that help you catch up) for players and computers are also Mario Kart games. When you're in first your chance of getting a good item are very small, expect green shells and bananas. However if you're in last you're chance of getting stars, blue shells, bullet bills, triple red shells are very high.
TL;DR It's a mechanic to help you catch up if you're far behind.
(Or in this case to help AI catch up if you're far ahead)
Little Mac Its a bad thing for AI to get an unfair advantage like increased speed, because its artificial difficulty and not actual AI. Rubberbanding items i'm sure everyone is fine with.
X02Overdose Oh fuck Midnight Club... That game gave me aids so many times with its BS scoring sometimes xD
I love how they dissapear into the void only to show them on crack on the map
Rubber banding in a racing game makes sense, doesn't it? There honestly isn't a lot of skill required in Mario Kart, just the ability to navigate the maps. If someone got good at that, and the CPU only ever moved at a fixed rate, then there would either be no challenge due to the CPU always moving slower, or it would be impossible with the CPU always being faster than you. The deciding factor would just be what random items are used. Dynamically changing the CPUs speed depending on their position will ensure that you don't complete all the challenge the game possibly had in five minutes.
Eh, I wish it was possible to turn off the rubber-banding in versus mode. When I play with newer players, I like to include "Easy" AIs so they have someone to compete against, but then I have to deliberately hold back from doing my best or the AI racers will rubber-band to me. If I could turn off rubber-banding, we could all have fun; as it is, either I have to not try my hardest, which is no fun for me, or they get creamed by supposedly "Easy" computers, which is no fun for them.
Nope Yep Ok, in Mario kart it makes sense, but not in other racing games. There’s nothing more annoying than working up to first and then all of a sudden someone rockets past you on the final straight
it's 2am and I have to work at 5:30 am, what the hell am I doing watching this
Yeah, man, you could've at least watched someone who's got better videos than me.
ShimiDia I was recently playing Mario kart 64 and wondered why the ai was so fast lol good video
Were you fired?
Rubber band AI is the worst. Why would you punish a player for driving good? I can recall it was either midnight club (a real piece of garbage) or a need for speed, where the rubber band effect was so poorly executed, that they could keep their speed for quite some time after blasting by you, making any sort of chase neigh impossible. you were basically forced to stay slightly ahead of the ai. Not too much tho.
It is literally impossible to have a fair challenging racing game for the consumer base without something like rubber banding in the game. When you have 1,000,000 different people of different skill levels playing the same game you can not make it a challenging game to all of them, by using rubber banding you can keep the game fun, but challenging, for the vast majority of the players.
Sorry, but if the best method for making a racing game challenging for players is to make the AI literally cheat, then racing game devs are not doing their job right. Obviously I can't code a better solution since I can't code, but the fact that everyone seems to default to "just have the AI speed up to catch up to the player if he's in the lead" is the most lazy thing. Also, I haven't met one person that has ever said to me "Man, I love how the AI in [insert racing game we're talking about] can always catch up to me regardless of how far ahead I am in mere seconds, yet I can barely even manage to get back my first place position in two whole laps! Really challenges my skills!"
The only thing rubber banding AI challenges is your patience, and how long you can resist getting a refund. Make the AI more smart, even more cheap, and dirty. Make them the most relentless assholes you can, but don't actually program them to cheat when they're losing.
Ikr?! Fuck for being a skilled very well racing game player!
Where faster and better you're, A.I gets too and if you fuck up, even once, if you ain't perfect, you're SCREWED!!!
Need for speed most wanted is a good example and race against a blacklist racer called "Earl".
This dude on the final sprint race, at the end of the track, he will outspeed you NO MATTER WHAT!!!
And if you let him get onto the 1st place, you're fucked!
You might as well restart! Not even perfect frame driving will help you at this point, I'm dead, fucking, serious!
I had to induce a crash on him and force a win out of him.
It sometimes makes me feel, that being a good racing gamer means absolutely fucking nothing, and being shitty at racing games, makes it justifiable...
This is a common problem in many racing games today as well. The programmers get lazy and just rubberband the AI because "it's the easier thing to do" instead of making complex AI.
4:22 do this multiple times on each corner
People don't understand the physics of the game then complain before even using logic and looking up advanced tech
DURDLESKATT MAN
Yeah, it's a nice Speedy Tact, but oh well
Legend says that item box is still searching for an item
Can you put a seizure warning annotation or something? I'm not affected but it just hurts looking at the flashes of lightning.
THEN DONT LOOK AT THE LIGHTNING!!! JEEZ!!!!
You know, it's kINDA DIFFICULT IF THEY'RE ALL OVER THE SCREEN!
Also, there was no need to caps, jeez
Shocking isn't it
You could just look away and look back once the lightning sounds stop. Very easy solution.
pussy.
I like how whoever made this game didn’t know the difference between 2 and 5
This was always my least favorite Mario kart game. Diddy kong racing curb stomped this game imo.
I remember really enjoying Diddy Kong Racing.
Crash Team Racing tho
CTR was a total ripoff of MK64, but it was definitely the better game.
Tyler Kehne its not a rip off
CTR literally remade an entire Diddy Kong Racing track for proof of concept before erasing it. It modeled itself directly after it and improved on it in just about every way imaginable. Best kart racer to date.
This is basically what Crash Team Racing Nitro-Fueled does for Hard Mode. At least, when you're not constantly forced to boost or keep fire to even win. Whenever you get hit by an item, it's like the AI immediately SHOOTS forward so that they somehow catch up.
haha that ending
The best example of this is in RC Pro AM. The yellow vehicle would make a sound like he was going supersonic and proceed to rocket past everyone regardless of how many times you make him crash.
2:26 XD
XD
2:25 -I don't know why, but Mario hitting Luigi's banana her makes me laugh so much.
Seizure warning.
Thanks for atleast including the warning, i dont have it personally but it is nice to take consideration. < 3
Um, seizure warning plz?
4:48 LOL - Just see Yoshi zooming past Peach.
Hackers are just da worst
GarbageHumanTJM64 Hackers are fine if they are using hacks to experiment / have fun.
Hackers only really impact online games. Singler player / couch co-op hacks are harmless
They appear to go slow when you're not near, but fast when you are near.