I retired a couple of years ago and bought a new Crosstrek to keep for a long time. Slowly realized the car was too small and had a low tongue weight limit. Traded it for a 4Runner TRD Pro and am living happily ever after:)
I like the 4Runner, just got a Crosstrek. Two very different vehicles. Not to mention the 4Runner on this video cost $52K while the Crosstrek on the video cost $25K.
I have always found the engine-braking with my 4Runner to be pretty good when I just manually shift. Not a fantastic towing vehicle, but it gets it done for occasional towing.
I loved this tike Ike. I drove an XV Crosstrek for 8 years and 151,000 miles. The CVT just blew up on it. It was a really good car up until that point. However, it did set new standards for gutlessness. I can't believe that thing managed to get up the hill with a trailer. That little 2.0 liter can barely get the car up the hill unlaiden.
The 4Runner transmission might only be a 5 speed, but you can lock the torque converter to 4th and use engine braking downhill, and I bet it would stay locked at 60 most of the way up that hill without hunting for gears.
Towed 1500 lbs in my crosstrek from Pensacola Florida to San Diego. Took about 4 days but didn’t have a single issue. The crosstreks are amazing, just don’t expect to hold 60 up those steeper grades 😂 Then again mine is manual so I could downshift anytime
Except manual and cvt is completely different. Manual is able to deliver torque as you don't have drive train losses like the CVT does. CVT struggles bad on the torque converter trying to push power out on an incline.
Why not hook up a scan gauge or the like, would have been good to see AT temps. Yes, the Suburu can tow, but seriously, it would not last if you did that run regularly
I'd also like to know! I keep an eye on engine Temps on mtn passes and am curious as to what temp they run. I've never had issues with my 4runner. They run pretty darn cool. Also, on the older models overdrive can be turned off allowing for less wear and tear on engine and transmission. Is that not possible on the newer 4runner?
That Crosstrek is better than people give it credit for. I tow dirt bikes with mine and yeah, you gotta floor it at times but it’s a mini honey badger. Thanks for the video TFL.
I've towed with my 2017 Outback a couple of times. That 1,000 pound limit without trailer brakes is there for a good reason. I need to hold the brake pedal with an 800 pound trailer down hills I would normally just use engine braking. Good call not going downhill!
got a 5 speed manual 2016 trek, only tow my motorcycle occasionally two bikes combined weight with trailer 1100 lbs. no issues, and in the mountains ,cuz best place for bikes and vacations imho, get the manual, get the manual, also get the manual
My 21' 4runner seems to actually grade shift decently. I've never gone down something as steep as the ike though. Maybe its related to brake pressure or the trans learning driving style. But also, something that steep I'd have it in 4th to start.
The new Crosstrek Wilderness is rated for 3500lbs with the naturally aspirated 2.5L. I can only imagine it being substantially slower than this for anyone brave enough to max it out. Looking at getting a Crosstrek, only time it will tow would be 3 miles down the road at 25mph pulling my snowmobile. Based on this vid it would handle that easily.
I just installed a class 3 on my outback. Cost me $200 for the hitch and wiring kit, shop wanted to charge me 3 hours to install when the guide said 45 mins. Ended up doing it myself in less then an hour.
I would love to see y’all compare the old 4.7 4Runner V8 with the new 4.0 on the Ike. I have an 06 4Runner with the V8 and intentionally bought this one instead of a new one with the 4.0. The tow rating is about 7000 lbs compared to 5000 on the new one. Can you do a Super Ike @ 5000lbs???
Funny you ask! My uncle bought an rv 35 footer 7500 pounds. Towed it from Indian Springs nv to Henderson nv. No problem at all. It’s lifted on a stage 5 icon setup with 33’s. Set psi on back to 45 and front to 35 I’m no pro, wanted to share my experience. The sag after an hour was getting bad tho haha. Bought these things called timbrens to help with sag Need to install them
Question: are there any vehicles that will actually downshift on the downhill portion without the cruise control being used? If there is, how does the vehicle know what speed you want to maintain unless cruise control is used? This has always bothered me when watching these tests.
My Silverado had a "grade breaking" mode that would come on automatically when riding the brakes downhill - that mode would downshift and help slow the truck. You didn't need to be in tow/haul or anything.
Many new cars have a grade assist feature that will use engine braking or even regen in hybrids to maintain speed down a hill, but these guys never seem to enable it. I would like to see a an Escape or Rav4 hybrid downhill with that feature enabled. I have a hybrid Escape and with grade assist on down steep grades is maintains speed well, would like to see how it does while towing.
You should test using the 2024 Crosstrek Wilderness. At least that can handle 3500 pounds and a 350 pound hitch weight. The 2.5 liter engine would work better too.
Entertaining! I was just waiting for that small Crosstrek engine to overheat. :-) Some good engineering in it. Kind of "interesting(?)" way you have the brakes on the trailer in the US. In Europe we have a totally mechanical system in the trailer. No electricity needed to brake. When the "tow bar" pushes towards the car while breaking, it will send pressure to the trailer brakes. The electrical is lights only here. The trailer brakes by it self on the forward movement, kind of. The weight on the trailer applies force on the brakes. You can get in trouble in backing up a hill if you don't start easy, then you just need to go down to unlock the brakes and start over. :-) I'm towing with a manual XV (Crosstrek) with a torquey turbo diesel. I kind of don't notice if it's there or not. The turbo diesel can legally tow 3000 pound if it got (mechanical) brakes here in Europe. And 1500pound/750kg without brakes.
It only has to cool about 105hp considering they are near 11,000’. It’s not working that hard. A lot of boat trailers here in the US have brakes that work the way you describe. The problem with that is that the harder you brake, the more the trailer pushes the car in order to generate more brake force on the trailer brakes. The electric brakes are proportional and so the trailer should only push the tow vehicle with the same force regardless of how hard you are braking. In fact you could set up the trailer brakes to brake harder than the tow vehicle if you wanted.
We recently purchased a 2021 Crosstrek and I've been curious about towing a small boat with it. I think I'll leave the towing to my Ford truck haha. Thanks for the videos!
I love these tests. These days I need to know if I'm gonna over heat. The new Fords and Chevys have problems!!! When I'm towing I expect the truck temperatures not to move at all.
suggestion, some people don’t have to watch the entire video. Timestamping the video is extremely helpful if they want to jump to the conclusion, thanks for the work 🙏
@@thejmcGarage Subaru’s are well known to be unreliable. Cvt’s are trash, they consume oil, the blow head gaskets. Many of us mechanics have nightmares about Subaru’s but our bank accounts love them.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 maybe describe Subaru of the past but not today's Subarus. My 2019 Ascent has been flawless and the past almost 60k miles I have put in it have not been easy and I have towed over 5000lbs with it as well
That dude towing the TT with the 4Runner. 🙄 Here in AZ, you see some crazy shit being pulled between Phoenix and Flagstaff/Payson. Especially last year when everyone and their mother bought some sort of towable RV, and hooked it up to something that was marginal/max’d at the limits.
Still like to see a base model shootout between all the big names in the half ton segment. GM's V6 (probably a turbo 4 now) vs dodge's Pentastar V6 and Ford N/A V6... Just came back from a weekend trip from cottage country (Ontario Canada) with the wife kids, dog and a 5600lb 5th wheel camper. With no issues.
As long as you are checking the owners manual, Toyota, like most other manufacturers, don't recommend towing in overdrive. That would help going down hill as well as reduce hunting gears.
Thank you for completing this test ❤ You can “engine brake” with the paddle shifters or with cruise control. Also I installed a class III hitch on my Forester for $140 myself 🤦
I put a 2 inch hitch on my 21 cross trek sport took 30 minutes. I think it was around 180 dollars with wiring, wiring took 30 minutes also found a rubber grommet & hole to use so no drilling.
Yeah I think that 5 speed was used in the 2008 Highlander. It definitely hunts for gears when going up steep grades but on the other hand Toyota programmed it in the 2nd gen Highlander it seems to transmission brake even when it senses your going downhill and touch the brakes. It’ll downshift sometimes to 3.5k RPMs. I’m not sure why they didn’t put that in the 4Runner. So yes it’s very dated but it is also very reliable!
I love how much hate the cvt gets in the subaru yet it did great holding the engine speed at peak power. Torque converter probably locked, probably not even running hot fluid compared to low speed off road
Interesting that your TRD Pro didn't apply the breaks for you. When I took my 2020 4Runner Limited through the Northwestern Ontario this summer, I was towing my boat that had a towed weight of 1800lbs, and the 4Runner, with cruise control set, would apply breaks for me on down hill slopes as I could literally feel myself being pushed forward in the seat. Maybe the TRD's don't have that feature.
Was going to say the same thing, probably because you had to cruise control on. I know this would mine in the mountains though, once I hit the brakes good a few times to maintain speed, the trans is good at downshifting itself to keep on maintaining that speed. I noticed it the first time I had it in the mountains of the Northeast, and was pleasantly surprised. In previous vehicles I had to manually downshift in order to control speed.
My 2016 Crosstrek pulls my folding 4x8 trailer just fine...like it's barely there. Towing the trailer abuses the car less than chauffering 4 fatties around would abuse it.
I had an 08 Si, that's not a test I would want to try with the mighty K20 and all of its 20 torques lol. But thats a sweet car you have, hang onto her.
I wish they did a wrangler vs 4Runner towing test. Plus bronco for good measure. We have a 5th gen and have towed several times and right as it’s 5k limit. Fantastic tow vehicle! I think it would be informative. But with the platform seemingly coming to an end I don’t think it will ever happened.
I bought a Red Arc Tow Elite brake controller for my 2020 4Runner. Things are very simple to install. I'm going to get a Magnuson Supercharger installed around the first of March. Should improve it's towing capability
Funny I sold my 21 4Runner ORP and bought a 24 Crosstrek Limited. I didn't need the 4Runner and the gas mileage was killing me. I did tow a camper with my 4Runner but that is going too. I ain't towing anything with the Crosstrek but am getting 35 MPGs on the highway, double the range with half the fuel costs.
I'll be interested too see a test like this on the Forester wilderness with 3,000 lbs towing and trailer assist. Still has a low power engine and transmission, but can it overcome it?
The 4Runner has a harness connector socket for the after market trailer brake controller to plug into. Must use the transmission going down hill. Our 2021 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4 x4 is gutless even with 2 people here in Colorado Springs, CO. Going up mountain passes even without towing nor a heavy load with 2 people the 4Runner is still gutless.
I own the 17' model yr Crosstrek, and the only reason it has a tow hitch that I installed is for my hualing my Mt. Bike to the trails, and maybe a carrier but nothing else. When I haul, its with my 02' Tundra sr5 4.7l 4wd.
That looked like fun. But I think that little Subaru was stressed to the max. I think you could do that all day long with the 4Runner and never hurt that engine & tranny. It's a real truck.
Would love to see TFL implement two runs. One to see if the vehicle will downshift with just applying breaks and one with the driver downshifting. It would be great to see how well each vehicle can engine break when the driver downshifts manually as I believe it is safer for the drive to grade-shift even if the car won't do it by itself.
Mostly flat roads, empty 14' aluminum single axle trailer that weighs 950 lbs, my 2007 Xterra SE gets 12 mpg. Add my 1750 lb Honda Talon to the trailer and the X gets 11.5 mpg.
hard core subaru fan here, owned 5. The dumbest thing you can do with a subi is tow, this trashes the symetrical awd, there weren't designed to tow and never were. wish you would show that crosstek 30,000 miles later after a couple of tows like that, and the explain the cost to repair. Bikes and lite stuff no problem. If I am looking at a used subaru and even see a tow hitch on it I walk away.
I'd appreciate yalls opinion fellas, we got a 22 4runner that's 2wd. We need to tow a 5x8 uhaul over i70 to Denver from glenwood. Would yall suggest not doing it? It'll maybe be 1500 pounds as well
Roman didn't completely trash the Subi,is the Sky falling in? For such a small car it didn't do to bad. That I will agree with. I suspect with the bigger motor it would have been a perfect run. I can also understand their concern with the brakes. Seems like nowadays I pay more attention to safety than I used to. Weird. I need to get at least a good 8 or more years younger. I'm starting to feel old. And I'm not even 50 yet. Please tell me you get young again when you hit 50.
I had a chance to test the towing capability of the 2021 4Runner Limited and the 2021 Jeep GC V6 with my ~2,500 pound boat/trailer. I bought the Jeep… The 4Runner felt unsafe and felt like an antique…
@TFLCar Do you use a GPS speedometer for your up-mountain tests? My 4Runner's speedometer is off. Relying on the factory speedo will give you inaccurate results. Idea for a future TFL episode -- why do automobile manufacturers NOT make speedometers accurate? This also affects the computers estimated MPG numbers. This is not rocket science. They can do better.
I had a 2006 Xterra that was off by about 10%, so not only is the speedometer showing my speed at 60 when I'm really doing more like 55, but the gas mileage/odometer are also out by that much. so when you think you're getting 20mpg based on the gages, you're really getting more like 18mpg.
I own a rav4 trd. And im going to be looking at a bigger suv soon.. Not sure if i want to go with a v6 or v8 suv.. Also not sure which suv to look at. I like the 4runner look and capabilities, but also the lexus gx460. Just looking to see what other options I can look at
Yeah i have the same crosstrek. I installed a class 3 hitch and trailer light wiring for 180 dollars for parts and did it myself, it was simple. They paid too much for the shity hitch from a dealer. Plus they are going way too fast up that hill, you should never almost redline it for a long period of time. Just slow down and follow the semi's up hill. Its simple. They had a point on going downhill and the brakes though. Not that I would ever overload it. Doesnt make too much sense to test uphill but not downhill on the crosstrek, you were not over weight, you would have been fine going down hill i imagine.
Makes me wonder how the Crosstrek would fair differently with the 2.5l engine instead of the 2.0l in this towing test? Makes no sense that the 2.5l isn't offered with a manual transmission.
That Subaru did better than I thought it would. Our '06 Outback loaded with the family with the NA engine and 4-speed auto was barely able to keep speed going up from the Denver side. God forbid if you got stuck behind a semi. Sold it and bought an '05 Outback XT with the 5-speed auto, huge difference with plenty of power. Still towing a box trailer with the XT at 65-70 gets you single digit mileage thanks to the low profile car and tall draggy trailer, so not recommended. Same trailer with our v10 Touareg - is it still back there?
@@Dankcatvacs It's hard to compare since they are so different. Towing, road trips - the Touareg because of the power and weight. For fast fun and red mud or snowy roads, the XT. Highway speed wise, about the same. XT gets 24, the v10 21 - but diesel is generally cheaper than premium.
I've driven that road many times, I'm surprised the Crosstrek did as well as it did. I don't think it'd doo so we'll starting from golden to Silverthorne.
Wonder how many times they had to go full throttle on the 4Runner? I have one and I like it except for the fact that the 4.0 makes very little torque at a usable RPM. Even unloaded, the thing can't make a mild grade here in Rhode Island without downshifting a few gears.
The few TH-cam comping vlogger i seen towing with a small hatch buy the 6 speed Stick as they can hold gears better control when towing yes they tow teardrops the one i seen was a older gen Mazda 3 5 door 5 speed stick towing a little guy silver shadow 5x10
Not that they are trying to do an even playing field comparison here, more to show how much of a risk some people are taking by trying to tow with a small maxed out vehicle compared to what they should be using.
How many MPGs do you think a 4Runner would get going over that mountain with no trailer? I was surprised the MPGs dropped to the 7s considering it was capable of towing more.
With the loss of towing capacity due to elevation, I think it lost around 1600 lbs of towing capacity at 11k. I don't know if I did the power or towing calculation they're both very similar but still. The 4runner would only be able to realistically tow 4,000 lbs at its best. 3400 at its worst at that elevation.
I know this would add complexity and time to the test, but would a bench mark of brake applications be warranted with no trailer? I feel like this number vs brake applications under load for a specific vehicle would be more telling than trying to compare brake applications on different vehicles, with different loads, in different conditions.
Ive towed with a 4 runner TRD pro on "Ike" several times and it is terrible. 4 Runners are so under powered. Always felt that it was working to its absolute max. I highly prefer my Landcruiser. Overall, people need to stop trying to tow in Colorado with cars that can't handle it. Reminder that engines lose about 3% of power with every 1000 vertical feet, so at the tunnel cars are probably running with 30% less power. In Colorado, its best to have as much power as possible.
These Tike Ike’s are great, love the real world tests. And it’s so nice to see you promoting safe towing.
I'm not sure towing ANYTHING with the Subaru would constitute safe towing.
I retired a couple of years ago and bought a new Crosstrek to keep for a long time. Slowly realized the car was too small and had a low tongue weight limit. Traded it for a 4Runner TRD Pro and am living happily ever after:)
I like the 4Runner, just got a Crosstrek. Two very different vehicles. Not to mention the 4Runner on this video cost $52K while the Crosstrek on the video cost $25K.
D.F. you confessed you did not do the research to fill your needs . You made the wrong decision when buying the Subaru.
@@mikewallace8087 Not the case. I did a lot of research, but 6 months after buying the car my needs changed. Still have my 4Runner and loving it.
I have always found the engine-braking with my 4Runner to be pretty good when I just manually shift. Not a fantastic towing vehicle, but it gets it done for occasional towing.
I use my cruise control and tow (not fast mind you). The 4 runner engine brakes pretty well for me (not fast and not heavy, lol).
I don’t understand why this isn’t downshifting. 2020 (wife’s) and my 2021 does when you gently brake it will hold 4th and 3rd gear.
I'm liking all the recent 4runner content. A vehicle that's been on my radar for a while.
3rd gen 4runner is probably the best bang for your buck if you are looking for a used 4wd. They last forever if you give them love.
I loved this tike Ike. I drove an XV Crosstrek for 8 years and 151,000 miles. The CVT just blew up on it. It was a really good car up until that point. However, it did set new standards for gutlessness. I can't believe that thing managed to get up the hill with a trailer. That little 2.0 liter can barely get the car up the hill unlaiden.
The 4Runner transmission might only be a 5 speed, but you can lock the torque converter to 4th and use engine braking downhill, and I bet it would stay locked at 60 most of the way up that hill without hunting for gears.
You can actually do the same thing with the Crosstrek. When using cruise control it will “downshift” also to allow for engine braking.
I wished these guys had a 2.5l Crosttreck.
I understand it's still nothing in comparison to dedicated 4x4, I'd like to just see it in "action".
Crosstrek’s look so awesome in red! Great video, surprised it did as well as it did.
Towed 1500 lbs in my crosstrek from Pensacola Florida to San Diego. Took about 4 days but didn’t have a single issue. The crosstreks are amazing, just don’t expect to hold 60 up those steeper grades 😂 Then again mine is manual so I could downshift anytime
Except manual and cvt is completely different. Manual is able to deliver torque as you don't have drive train losses like the CVT does. CVT struggles bad on the torque converter trying to push power out on an incline.
I just got a manual Crosstrek and I am planning on towing. The manuals also have a rear 4.4 gear ratio
So the 4 runner is 30 seconds quicker, same mpg and has brakes to actually tow a trailer. Looks like a solid win in my book.
Except for annoying gear hunting that would drive me nuts! Not a clear win for me. A better comparison would be the crosstrec sport with the 2.5
And an extra $15k
@@use1kcf exactly!
@@use1kcf and what does the Crosstrek average for fuel economy without a trailer? The 4runner is a pig whether it's towing or not
Are you actually taking this comparison seriously?
Why not hook up a scan gauge or the like, would have been good to see AT temps. Yes, the Suburu can tow, but seriously, it would not last if you did that run regularly
I'd also like to know! I keep an eye on engine Temps on mtn passes and am curious as to what temp they run. I've never had issues with my 4runner. They run pretty darn cool. Also, on the older models overdrive can be turned off allowing for less wear and tear on engine and transmission. Is that not possible on the newer 4runner?
@@CalebD413 the new ones have a lot of tec prolly do it automatically
@@andersonrodriguez8258 Yes, you are probably right! I'm out of touch, I drive a '97.
I’d also be interested in transmission temperatures during this test.
That Crosstrek is better than people give it credit for. I tow dirt bikes with mine and yeah, you gotta floor it at times but it’s a mini honey badger. Thanks for the video TFL.
Hopefully tht cvt last
Change th fluid more often
@@andersonrodriguez8258 2014 with 110K and counting. :)
That tongue angle on the 4 runner 😬
I've towed with my 2017 Outback a couple of times. That 1,000 pound limit without trailer brakes is there for a good reason. I need to hold the brake pedal with an 800 pound trailer down hills I would normally just use engine braking. Good call not going downhill!
Regardless of the mileage or the next scheduled maintenance - go get that CVT serviced NOW.
Loved the video and the light-hearted moments make watching it more genuine.
got a 5 speed manual 2016 trek, only tow my motorcycle occasionally two bikes combined weight with trailer 1100 lbs. no issues, and in the mountains ,cuz best place for bikes and vacations imho, get the manual, get the manual, also get the manual
My 21' 4runner seems to actually grade shift decently. I've never gone down something as steep as the ike though. Maybe its related to brake pressure or the trans learning driving style. But also, something that steep I'd have it in 4th to start.
In the beginning, I thought to myself, another mismatch by TFL, but this test was actually quite informative and entertaining at the same time!
The new Crosstrek Wilderness is rated for 3500lbs with the naturally aspirated 2.5L. I can only imagine it being substantially slower than this for anyone brave enough to max it out.
Looking at getting a Crosstrek, only time it will tow would be 3 miles down the road at 25mph pulling my snowmobile. Based on this vid it would handle that easily.
I just installed a class 3 on my outback. Cost me $200 for the hitch and wiring kit, shop wanted to charge me 3 hours to install when the guide said 45 mins. Ended up doing it myself in less then an hour.
The Crosstrek does have a temp gauge. It's in the center screen on the dash. Not the one in the instrument cluster :)
No only the limited does
Crosstrek exceeded my expectations here.
I love how that CVT sounds like a slipping clutch in a manual going up a steep hill
I would love to see y’all compare the old 4.7 4Runner V8 with the new 4.0 on the Ike. I have an 06 4Runner with the V8 and intentionally bought this one instead of a new one with the 4.0. The tow rating is about 7000 lbs compared to 5000 on the new one. Can you do a Super Ike @ 5000lbs???
I want to see that!
Funny you ask!
My uncle bought an rv 35 footer 7500 pounds.
Towed it from Indian Springs nv to Henderson nv. No problem at all. It’s lifted on a stage 5 icon setup with 33’s.
Set psi on back to 45 and front to 35
I’m no pro, wanted to share my experience. The sag after an hour was getting bad tho haha.
Bought these things called timbrens to help with sag
Need to install them
Question: are there any vehicles that will actually downshift on the downhill portion without the cruise control being used? If there is, how does the vehicle know what speed you want to maintain unless cruise control is used? This has always bothered me when watching these tests.
Yeah, my 2005 Corolla downshifts on steep downhills automatically.
My Silverado had a "grade breaking" mode that would come on automatically when riding the brakes downhill - that mode would downshift and help slow the truck. You didn't need to be in tow/haul or anything.
The ram 2500/3500 do it but they have a system that is built for towing down hill
You could always manually downshift yourself.
Many new cars have a grade assist feature that will use engine braking or even regen in hybrids to maintain speed down a hill, but these guys never seem to enable it. I would like to see a an Escape or Rav4 hybrid downhill with that feature enabled.
I have a hybrid Escape and with grade assist on down steep grades is maintains speed well, would like to see how it does while towing.
You should test using the 2024 Crosstrek Wilderness. At least that can handle 3500 pounds and a 350 pound hitch weight. The 2.5 liter engine would work better too.
Entertaining! I was just waiting for that small Crosstrek engine to overheat. :-) Some good engineering in it.
Kind of "interesting(?)" way you have the brakes on the trailer in the US. In Europe we have a totally mechanical system in the trailer. No electricity needed to brake. When the "tow bar" pushes towards the car while breaking, it will send pressure to the trailer brakes. The electrical is lights only here. The trailer brakes by it self on the forward movement, kind of. The weight on the trailer applies force on the brakes. You can get in trouble in backing up a hill if you don't start easy, then you just need to go down to unlock the brakes and start over. :-)
I'm towing with a manual XV (Crosstrek) with a torquey turbo diesel. I kind of don't notice if it's there or not. The turbo diesel can legally tow 3000 pound if it got (mechanical) brakes here in Europe. And 1500pound/750kg without brakes.
The trailer they are towing has electric brakes. We call the system you are mentioning, a surge brake. We have both, it just depends on your trailer.
It only has to cool about 105hp considering they are near 11,000’. It’s not working that hard.
A lot of boat trailers here in the US have brakes that work the way you describe. The problem with that is that the harder you brake, the more the trailer pushes the car in order to generate more brake force on the trailer brakes. The electric brakes are proportional and so the trailer should only push the tow vehicle with the same force regardless of how hard you are braking. In fact you could set up the trailer brakes to brake harder than the tow vehicle if you wanted.
This series is AWESOME 👌 👏!!!!
We recently purchased a 2021 Crosstrek and I've been curious about towing a small boat with it. I think I'll leave the towing to my Ford truck haha. Thanks for the videos!
A jet ski at most and then may not
I love these tests. These days I need to know if I'm gonna over heat. The new Fords and Chevys have problems!!! When I'm towing I expect the truck temperatures not to move at all.
When getting a hitch on go to U-haul. Just put one on my wife’s ‘21 diesel wrangler (no wiring, just for a bike rack) and it was
suggestion, some people don’t have to watch the entire video. Timestamping the video is extremely helpful if they want to jump to the conclusion, thanks for the work 🙏
They get paid for the time watched, not the watch counts. If they timestamp they will get less minutes watched overall.
That Crosstrek’s CVT will need repair very soon.
Exactly.
How do figure?
@@thejmcGarage Subaru’s are well known to be unreliable. Cvt’s are trash, they consume oil, the blow head gaskets. Many of us mechanics have nightmares about Subaru’s but our bank accounts love them.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 maybe describe Subaru of the past but not today's Subarus. My 2019 Ascent has been flawless and the past almost 60k miles I have put in it have not been easy and I have towed over 5000lbs with it as well
Then engine, too.
That dude towing the TT with the 4Runner. 🙄 Here in AZ, you see some crazy shit being pulled between Phoenix and Flagstaff/Payson. Especially last year when everyone and their mother bought some sort of towable RV, and hooked it up to something that was marginal/max’d at the limits.
Still like to see a base model shootout between all the big names in the half ton segment. GM's V6 (probably a turbo 4 now) vs dodge's Pentastar V6 and Ford N/A V6... Just came back from a weekend trip from cottage country (Ontario Canada) with the wife kids, dog and a 5600lb 5th wheel camper. With no issues.
As long as you are checking the owners manual, Toyota, like most other manufacturers, don't recommend towing in overdrive. That would help going down hill as well as reduce hunting gears.
Thank you for completing this test ❤ You can “engine brake” with the paddle shifters or with cruise control. Also I installed a class III hitch on my Forester for $140 myself 🤦
I put a 2 inch hitch on my 21 cross trek sport took 30 minutes. I think it was around 180 dollars with wiring, wiring took 30 minutes also found a rubber grommet & hole to use so no drilling.
Yeah I think that 5 speed was used in the 2008 Highlander. It definitely hunts for gears when going up steep grades but on the other hand Toyota programmed it in the 2nd gen Highlander it seems to transmission brake even when it senses your going downhill and touch the brakes. It’ll downshift sometimes to 3.5k RPMs. I’m not sure why they didn’t put that in the 4Runner. So yes it’s very dated but it is also very reliable!
I noticed my 4 runner hunting for gears on steep hills. Interesting, when I shifted into manual it was even worse.
I'm really diggin these tike ike's.
I love how much hate the cvt gets in the subaru yet it did great holding the engine speed at peak power. Torque converter probably locked, probably not even running hot fluid compared to low speed off road
Subaru cvt are the best cvt
Interesting that your TRD Pro didn't apply the breaks for you. When I took my 2020 4Runner Limited through the Northwestern Ontario this summer, I was towing my boat that had a towed weight of 1800lbs, and the 4Runner, with cruise control set, would apply breaks for me on down hill slopes as I could literally feel myself being pushed forward in the seat.
Maybe the TRD's don't have that feature.
I would assume that is because you had the cruise control set. TFL does not set the cruise control on the downhill (or uphill) Ike Gauntlet test.
Was going to say the same thing, probably because you had to cruise control on. I know this would mine in the mountains though, once I hit the brakes good a few times to maintain speed, the trans is good at downshifting itself to keep on maintaining that speed. I noticed it the first time I had it in the mountains of the Northeast, and was pleasantly surprised. In previous vehicles I had to manually downshift in order to control speed.
i wouldnt tow ANYTHING with a CVT, especially on a underpowered vehicle
@@allentoyokawa9068 haha ok
and since cvt no gear hunting
My 2016 Crosstrek pulls my folding 4x8 trailer just fine...like it's barely there. Towing the trailer abuses the car less than chauffering 4 fatties around would abuse it.
The brake application part is a little off. Compare it to how many brake applications it needs when not towing anything.
On the cross trek.... the top number reading is instant MPG.... The bottom number was average MPG......8 mpg average ..... Keep up the good work guys
I wonder if my 2009 Civic SI coupe in Orange Pearl can make it up the tike ike faster than the Subie with that trailer?
I had an 08 Si, that's not a test I would want to try with the mighty K20 and all of its 20 torques lol. But thats a sweet car you have, hang onto her.
@@ShadowBend My comment was sarcasm. I do however take my Si to PPIR and next I'm going to High Plains Raceway.
I wish they did a wrangler vs 4Runner towing test. Plus bronco for good measure. We have a 5th gen and have towed several times and right as it’s 5k limit. Fantastic tow vehicle! I think it would be informative. But with the platform seemingly coming to an end I don’t think it will ever happened.
I bought a Red Arc Tow Elite brake controller for my 2020 4Runner. Things are very simple to install.
I'm going to get a Magnuson Supercharger installed around the first of March.
Should improve it's towing capability
That Crosstrek has 21 HP LESS than my cheap old 2007 Impreza. This is hilarious. (Way less torque too)
Funny I sold my 21 4Runner ORP and bought a 24 Crosstrek Limited. I didn't need the 4Runner and the gas mileage was killing me. I did tow a camper with my 4Runner but that is going too. I ain't towing anything with the Crosstrek but am getting 35 MPGs on the highway, double the range with half the fuel costs.
Hi TFL you should try the Ike Gauntlet with the Nissan Nv200 compact cargo van SV model with maxed out cargo weight
Its insane the 4runnner came out in 2010 then face lifted in 2014 and still sells😂😂
I'd love to see the CVT oil temps during that climb :)
Also want to see the transmission fluid after the test. Is it all black?
I'll be interested too see a test like this on the Forester wilderness with 3,000 lbs towing and trailer assist. Still has a low power engine and transmission, but can it overcome it?
The 4Runner has a harness connector socket for the after market trailer brake controller to plug into. Must use the transmission going down hill.
Our 2021 Toyota 4Runner Limited 4 x4 is gutless even with 2 people here in Colorado Springs, CO.
Going up mountain passes even without towing nor a heavy load with 2 people the 4Runner is still gutless.
Very entertaining. Well done!
They really put that cvt through hell 🤣🤣
I own the 17' model yr Crosstrek, and the only reason it has a tow hitch that I installed is for my hualing my Mt. Bike to the trails, and maybe a carrier but nothing else. When I haul, its with my 02' Tundra sr5 4.7l 4wd.
That looked like fun. But I think that little Subaru was stressed to the max. I think you could do that all day long with the 4Runner and never hurt that engine & tranny. It's a real truck.
Would love to see TFL implement two runs. One to see if the vehicle will downshift with just applying breaks and one with the driver downshifting. It would be great to see how well each vehicle can engine break when the driver downshifts manually as I believe it is safer for the drive to grade-shift even if the car won't do it by itself.
Awesome video. Looking forward to more. How about testing with the new Rav 4? Has 1500 lb tow rating.
Please do the forester wilderness and outback wilderness tow test!
That's the 2.0l crosstrek, 2.5l has much more performance.
Mostly flat roads, empty 14' aluminum single axle trailer that weighs 950 lbs, my 2007 Xterra SE gets 12 mpg. Add my 1750 lb Honda Talon to the trailer and the X gets 11.5 mpg.
The Crosstrek needs a 2.4 FA
It's their hottest seller. Just phase out the 2.0.
hard core subaru fan here, owned 5. The dumbest thing you can do with a subi is tow, this trashes the symetrical awd, there weren't designed to tow and never were. wish you would show that crosstek 30,000 miles later after a couple of tows like that, and the explain the cost to repair. Bikes and lite stuff no problem. If I am looking at a used subaru and even see a tow hitch on it I walk away.
Great information and you two are funny as hell.
I'd appreciate yalls opinion fellas, we got a 22 4runner that's 2wd. We need to tow a 5x8 uhaul over i70 to Denver from glenwood.
Would yall suggest not doing it? It'll maybe be 1500 pounds as well
Roman didn't completely trash the Subi,is the Sky falling in? For such a small car it didn't do to bad. That I will agree with. I suspect with the bigger motor it would have been a perfect run. I can also understand their concern with the brakes. Seems like nowadays I pay more attention to safety than I used to. Weird. I need to get at least a good 8 or more years younger. I'm starting to feel old. And I'm not even 50 yet. Please tell me you get young again when you hit 50.
Would like to see with a manual trans crosstrek
I had a chance to test the towing capability of the 2021 4Runner Limited and the 2021 Jeep GC V6 with my ~2,500 pound boat/trailer. I bought the Jeep… The 4Runner felt unsafe and felt like an antique…
I sold my lifted crosstrek on ko2s so that I can buy a Tacoma. Now it’s been 3 months and still can’t find a Tacoma.
Watch the oil temp. In our 2018 Crosstrek with just a rooftop basket, and not towing anything, when floored for several minutes it got to the red.
2018 what?
You guys seriously stressed me out! Watching the rpms climb was insane! Not sure I’d push it like that but I get it for the video.
Did you ever do a video on the 4runner pulling 5000?
@TFLCar Do you use a GPS speedometer for your up-mountain tests? My 4Runner's speedometer is off. Relying on the factory speedo will give you inaccurate results.
Idea for a future TFL episode -- why do automobile manufacturers NOT make speedometers accurate? This also affects the computers estimated MPG numbers. This is not rocket science. They can do better.
I had a 2006 Xterra that was off by about 10%, so not only is the speedometer showing my speed at 60 when I'm really doing more like 55, but the gas mileage/odometer are also out by that much. so when you think you're getting 20mpg based on the gages, you're really getting more like 18mpg.
it's good message to most of people, do not overload with down hill, brakes busted.
What are they referencing when talking about "brake applications "?
I own a rav4 trd. And im going to be looking at a bigger suv soon.. Not sure if i want to go with a v6 or v8 suv.. Also not sure which suv to look at. I like the 4runner look and capabilities, but also the lexus gx460. Just looking to see what other options I can look at
Yeah i have the same crosstrek. I installed a class 3 hitch and trailer light wiring for 180 dollars for parts and did it myself, it was simple. They paid too much for the shity hitch from a dealer. Plus they are going way too fast up that hill, you should never almost redline it for a long period of time. Just slow down and follow the semi's up hill. Its simple. They had a point on going downhill and the brakes though. Not that I would ever overload it. Doesnt make too much sense to test uphill but not downhill on the crosstrek, you were not over weight, you would have been fine going down hill i imagine.
Wish I were in Colorado so I could lend you my v10 TDI Touareg to test this challenge and show up the half ton pickups.
Makes me wonder how the Crosstrek would fair differently with the 2.5l engine instead of the 2.0l in this towing test? Makes no sense that the 2.5l isn't offered with a manual transmission.
Would love to see you repeat with the crosstrek and a 1000 lbs load; to see the difference.
What engine is in the Crosstrek you drive? My 2018 Subaru XV(crosstrek) can tow 1500 kilos that is 3306,9 pounds. My XV has an 2.0 engine.
Would the 4Runner have been quieter if the sunroof shade had been closed?
That Subaru did better than I thought it would. Our '06 Outback loaded with the family with the NA engine and 4-speed auto was barely able to keep speed going up from the Denver side. God forbid if you got stuck behind a semi. Sold it and bought an '05 Outback XT with the 5-speed auto, huge difference with plenty of power. Still towing a box trailer with the XT at 65-70 gets you single digit mileage thanks to the low profile car and tall draggy trailer, so not recommended. Same trailer with our v10 Touareg - is it still back there?
how do you like the v10 compared to the xt?
@@Dankcatvacs It's hard to compare since they are so different. Towing, road trips - the Touareg because of the power and weight. For fast fun and red mud or snowy roads, the XT. Highway speed wise, about the same. XT gets 24, the v10 21 - but diesel is generally cheaper than premium.
I've driven that road many times, I'm surprised the Crosstrek did as well as it did. I don't think it'd doo so we'll starting from golden to Silverthorne.
I'm a little surprised the Subaru lived haha
What about a manual Crosstrek and the trailer has brakes????
Wonder how many times they had to go full throttle on the 4Runner? I have one and I like it except for the fact that the 4.0 makes very little torque at a usable RPM. Even unloaded, the thing can't make a mild grade here in Rhode Island without downshifting a few gears.
The few TH-cam comping vlogger i seen towing with a small hatch buy the 6 speed Stick as they can hold gears better control when towing yes they tow teardrops the one i seen was a older gen Mazda 3 5 door 5 speed stick towing a little guy silver shadow 5x10
How stupid to compare the towing power of a small Subaru vs a 4runner?
Not that they are trying to do an even playing field comparison here, more to show how much of a risk some people are taking by trying to tow with a small maxed out vehicle compared to what they should be using.
How many MPGs do you think a 4Runner would get going over that mountain with no trailer? I was surprised the MPGs dropped to the 7s considering it was capable of towing more.
With the loss of towing capacity due to elevation, I think it lost around 1600 lbs of towing capacity at 11k. I don't know if I did the power or towing calculation they're both very similar but still. The 4runner would only be able to realistically tow 4,000 lbs at its best. 3400 at its worst at that elevation.
Will you do a comparison like Subaru Crosstrek vs Hyundai Santa Cruz?
Does cruise control help it automatically down shift?
I know this would add complexity and time to the test, but would a bench mark of brake applications be warranted with no trailer? I feel like this number vs brake applications under load for a specific vehicle would be more telling than trying to compare brake applications on different vehicles, with different loads, in different conditions.
Ive towed with a 4 runner TRD pro on "Ike" several times and it is terrible. 4 Runners are so under powered. Always felt that it was working to its absolute max. I highly prefer my Landcruiser. Overall, people need to stop trying to tow in Colorado with cars that can't handle it. Reminder that engines lose about 3% of power with every 1000 vertical feet, so at the tunnel cars are probably running with 30% less power. In Colorado, its best to have as much power as possible.
Reving the nuts out of that 2.0 boxer. 😅 good endurance test.
Wondering if you will do a Bike Ike
to test motorcycles ability to pull bike trailers
Thanks to TFL I want to tow something with my Toyota yaris