I have the pleasure of having been part of the physical work/reconstruction done on I.33 by Dr. Forgeng and the former Higgins Armory Museum, which closed in 2013 and moved its collection to Worcester Art Museum. I get to demonstrate some of that work now and then at various venues. It is an amazing manuscript and I’m still floored it has survived and has brought a resurgence in studying swordplay.
Now this is the type and quality of content that the Royal Amouried should produce. It is a World Class Centre of Excellence in y weapons , please spead your knowledge about
I believe, as many do, that the reason I.33 falls outside of the otherwise continuous German school is because it is based on much older work. As some have noted, the buckler is more thoroughly integrated into the fabric of the style, rather than being an "extra" item to block with. I believe this harkens to older times when strikes were more prominent than thrusts and use of larger shields was a basic skill. It also seems to me to be perhaps tailored to a set of rules, a particular kind of game of swords with some rules and standard conditions.
The interesting thing is that "One interpretation of how it works" is really how different fighting styles evolve. So you have the Royal Armory style of I:33. The question isn't "how it works" but really: If it works, it's valid as a fighting style. Of course as historians you probably want to know how it was in the past, but we can never know that.
There are more places than Leeds, try The Wallace Collection in collection, that is just pure art , and especially Fort Nelson at Portsmouth, they have the really Big Boys Toys down there, includding the Mallet Motar.
Wonderful video! Sword and buckler is my favorite genre of fencing, because the High/Late Medieval arming sword is my very favorite sword! 😁 In a nutshell, the arming sword is the swordliest of all swords. It was always there, and even during the height of the longsword's period of service, it was still the most prevalent sword in use in Western Europe. From King Arthur(or at least his alleged time period) to Charlemagne, to Henry V, the one-handed sword was always there. Two things... I would love to know if anyone has done any research at all into the use of arming sword without a buckler. I've read that it was done, but have found next to nothing beyond that! Also, when it comes to scholarship on the I:33 Manuscript, I cannot recommend Roland Warzecha highly enough! He has a TH-cam channel.
Val Pergus (forgive me if I'm spelling it wrong) sounds like a great name for a larp character. I'll be sure to put that on my list of possible new characters.
Nice video Stu. Also, love the cravat. Surely Walpurgis vs a priest suggests personifications of good and evil (i.e. Walpurgisnacht) - does she "lose" in the context of the document?
“Hi Pete, glad you liked the film, and thanks for the query. If Walpurgis is intended to personify evil, we can assume that the priest would win. In the play in which Walpurgis is present, she is executing a technique that we have seen a number of times previously, and it ends with her holding the upper hand. As it stands therefore, she is the winner, but we cannot be certain that the sequence has ended or if there are some now missing additions, so we can’t be sure whether she wins or not. There has been quite a lot of debate as to whether Walpurgis was a real person or just a character or personification. It has been suggested that the figure in the manuscript was a personification of Saint Walpurgis (who historically was active in Franconia), but this is now generally dismissed (see Eads & Garber (2014), “Amazon, Allegory, Swordswoman, Saint?” in Mondschein (ed.) Can These Bones Come To Life? Wheaton: Freelance Academy Press, p. 5-23). Though we can’t dismiss the idea that Walpurgis was a personification of something, we certainly cannot confirm it either. It is possible that she was a real person who was in some way related to either the author or fight master behind the manuscript, and therefore had the privileged position of being able to take part. Alternatively she may be entirely fictitious and some form of medieval joke. So, the short answer to your query is; we don’t know! It’s just one of the mysteries relating to I.33 that we may never get to the bottom of. At least it keeps us thinking! Stuart.
Anticlericalism is common in 14th century literature- e.g. in Boccaccio's Decameron or Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. It shouldn't be presumed that a priest is automatically equated with virtue in a 14th century book- he could well be intended as a villain. In fact, a common literary trope of the era was to portray priests as licentious sexual predators. Walpurgis might be defending her honour. Or it could all be a joke about how both characters are behaving in a way inappropriate to their ostensible roles in society. Also, having two characters with very different clothing and appearance means that even if the book was reproduced without colour illustrations, by a less skilled artist, then the two figures remain distinct, even when the angle is reversed- it's an artistic decision with some clear practical benefits.
They still fight with sword and buckler in Korcula off Dalmattia, the swords are short and it's for tourists, but it's fast and sparks fly...very likley a real tradition kept authentic.
Could the female character in I.33 be Walpurgis, after Saint Walpurga, an 8th-century abbess in Francia, celebrated on the night of 30 April and the day of 1 May in Germany, Sweden and Finland. So, an Abbess fighting with a priest?
Carbon dating results always come with a considerable confidence interval, that is generally larger than the accuracy of the estimation made by the "material cultural" method. Therefore, even if they'd do it, it wouldn't give us a more accurate date.
I wouldnt really trust scribes in matter of fighting techniques or war. The fighting style show on the sketches might be what they remember from a fencing.
It is more likely that the scribes were commissioned to capture the work of an unknown master in a treatise. His masterwork. I think it is unlikely they would put so much effort into something like this if they were not getting paid.
I was comparing the scribes to the modern writers. They either dramatize too much or missunderstood some of the informations they must put in their work. Of course they would give all their best and they were well paid but the problem is a fencing trainer or something like that would be able to describe the manual more correctly. Yet the problem was not most of people knew to read of write. So for me is very very vague how we can take an information as good or bad.
For all intents and purposes, this work was possibly written by someone who actively handled a sword at the time of its writing and the illustrations were commissioned to go with it. As things that are written inside (at least looking through interpretations) are martially valid.
Havock, regarding validity, I would suggest "historical experimentation." Where you are recreating the art, and testing it against other forms of sword play. Is this form of martial combat effective against other contemporary or even modern forms of combat. If it is, then there is a high probability that it was martially valid.
Brilliant presentation! I would love to see more like this. Wonderful!
I have the pleasure of having been part of the physical work/reconstruction done on I.33 by Dr. Forgeng and the former Higgins Armory Museum, which closed in 2013 and moved its collection to Worcester Art Museum. I get to demonstrate some of that work now and then at various venues. It is an amazing manuscript and I’m still floored it has survived and has brought a resurgence in studying swordplay.
Whenever I hear the term "martial arts", I always think of Eastern cultures. Learning about Western forms of combat is really cool!
Now this is the type and quality of content that the Royal Amouried should produce. It is a World Class Centre of Excellence in y weapons , please spead your knowledge about
I believe, as many do, that the reason I.33 falls outside of the otherwise continuous German school is because it is based on much older work. As some have noted, the buckler is more thoroughly integrated into the fabric of the style, rather than being an "extra" item to block with. I believe this harkens to older times when strikes were more prominent than thrusts and use of larger shields was a basic skill. It also seems to me to be perhaps tailored to a set of rules, a particular kind of game of swords with some rules and standard conditions.
Absolutely fascinating. Can't wait to get my hands on a copy.
The interesting thing is that "One interpretation of how it works" is really how different fighting styles evolve. So you have the Royal Armory style of I:33.
The question isn't "how it works" but really: If it works, it's valid as a fighting style.
Of course as historians you probably want to know how it was in the past, but we can never know that.
Nice to see Stuart in a video.
Wow sweet stuff thanks for sharing
Love this!
Lovely and informative stuff cheers
Would love this series completed!
I recommend at least one trip to the Royal Armouries, to anyone its a fantastic place.
There are more places than Leeds, try The Wallace Collection in collection, that is just pure art , and especially Fort Nelson at Portsmouth, they have the really Big Boys Toys down there, includding the Mallet Motar.
Soory Guys! Wallace collection is in London.
I'd always pronounced it "i.33." Thanks for clearing this up!
Perhaps the Royal Armory didn't know that the Walpurgis manuscript was stolen from the library of Gotha 5 years before.
Imagine Sword & Buckler as an Olympic sport! ..The crowd want's Action longer than two seconds!!
Wonderful video! Sword and buckler is my favorite genre of fencing, because the High/Late Medieval arming sword is my very favorite sword! 😁 In a nutshell, the arming sword is the swordliest of all swords. It was always there, and even during the height of the longsword's period of service, it was still the most prevalent sword in use in Western Europe. From King Arthur(or at least his alleged time period) to Charlemagne, to Henry V, the one-handed sword was always there. Two things...
I would love to know if anyone has done any research at all into the use of arming sword without a buckler. I've read that it was done, but have found next to nothing beyond that! Also, when it comes to scholarship on the I:33 Manuscript, I cannot recommend Roland Warzecha highly enough! He has a TH-cam channel.
Val Pergus (forgive me if I'm spelling it wrong) sounds like a great name for a larp character. I'll be sure to put that on my list of possible new characters.
Valpurgis
Walpurgis*
Nice video Stu. Also, love the cravat.
Surely Walpurgis vs a priest suggests personifications of good and evil (i.e. Walpurgisnacht) - does she "lose" in the context of the document?
The last leaf is missing unfortunately, so we can't tell.
“Hi Pete, glad you liked the film, and thanks for the query.
If Walpurgis is intended to personify evil, we can assume that the priest would win. In the play in which Walpurgis is present, she is executing a technique that we have seen a number of times previously, and it ends with her holding the upper hand. As it stands therefore, she is the winner, but we cannot be certain that the sequence has ended or if there are some now missing additions, so we can’t be sure whether she wins or not.
There has been quite a lot of debate as to whether Walpurgis was a real person or just a character or personification. It has been suggested that the figure in the manuscript was a personification of Saint Walpurgis (who historically was active in Franconia), but this is now generally dismissed (see Eads & Garber (2014), “Amazon, Allegory, Swordswoman, Saint?” in Mondschein (ed.) Can These Bones Come To Life? Wheaton: Freelance Academy Press, p. 5-23).
Though we can’t dismiss the idea that Walpurgis was a personification of something, we certainly cannot confirm it either. It is possible that she was a real person who was in some way related to either the author or fight master behind the manuscript, and therefore had the privileged position of being able to take part. Alternatively she may be entirely fictitious and some form of medieval joke.
So, the short answer to your query is; we don’t know! It’s just one of the mysteries relating to I.33 that we may never get to the bottom of.
At least it keeps us thinking!
Stuart.
Thanks for the reference there. An "I dunno" would have been fine, but out of character. Need to catch up sometime. There may be beer.
Anticlericalism is common in 14th century literature- e.g. in Boccaccio's Decameron or Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. It shouldn't be presumed that a priest is automatically equated with virtue in a 14th century book- he could well be intended as a villain. In fact, a common literary trope of the era was to portray priests as licentious sexual predators. Walpurgis might be defending her honour. Or it could all be a joke about how both characters are behaving in a way inappropriate to their ostensible roles in society. Also, having two characters with very different clothing and appearance means that even if the book was reproduced without colour illustrations, by a less skilled artist, then the two figures remain distinct, even when the angle is reversed- it's an artistic decision with some clear practical benefits.
@@RoyalArmouriesMuseum Priests were often licentious villains in 14th century literature.
They still fight with sword and buckler in Korcula off Dalmattia, the swords are short and it's for tourists, but it's fast and sparks fly...very likley a real tradition kept authentic.
Like it :)
Could the female character in I.33 be Walpurgis, after Saint Walpurga, an 8th-century abbess in Francia, celebrated on the night of 30 April and the day of 1 May in Germany, Sweden and Finland. So, an Abbess fighting with a priest?
Where are all the 5th ward plays huh? where'd they all get off to?
This should be carved to the stone.
given all the damage that's happened to it over the years, could you not take a small square and carbon date it?
Carbon dating results always come with a considerable confidence interval, that is generally larger than the accuracy of the estimation made by the "material cultural" method.
Therefore, even if they'd do it, it wouldn't give us a more accurate date.
Are you the son of the one called John Malkovich ?
I wouldnt really trust scribes in matter of fighting techniques or war. The fighting style show on the sketches might be what they remember from a fencing.
It is more likely that the scribes were commissioned to capture the work of an unknown master in a treatise. His masterwork. I think it is unlikely they would put so much effort into something like this if they were not getting paid.
I was comparing the scribes to the modern writers. They either dramatize too much or missunderstood some of the informations they must put in their work. Of course they would give all their best and they were well paid but the problem is a fencing trainer or something like that would be able to describe the manual more correctly. Yet the problem was not most of people knew to read of write. So for me is very very vague how we can take an information as good or bad.
For all intents and purposes, this work was possibly written by someone who actively handled a sword at the time of its writing and the illustrations were commissioned to go with it. As things that are written inside (at least looking through interpretations) are martially valid.
But how do you know that ?
Havock, regarding validity, I would suggest "historical experimentation." Where you are recreating the art, and testing it against other forms of sword play. Is this form of martial combat effective against other contemporary or even modern forms of combat. If it is, then there is a high probability that it was martially valid.
given all the damage that's happened to it over the years, could you not take a small square and carbon date it?