Players Keep Boycotting Champions For Buffs
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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MORDE VS NİLAH
I am just going to say it's really really bad for your privacy.
@@kalinognyanov395 ı dont care man ı just wanna say that so do ı
*drinks tea in sona main that hasn't played (consistently) her since klepto was removed. Chaos my tea
XD no ty but GG
“We can try to convince the majority of the league community that Zed deserves buffs”
Good luck with that one LOL
Shens w bugs fixxed has the bug fiıra passive autoattack problems etc for 2 years very abandoned..
The post saying tanks can't walk over him anymore made me chuckle
I’ll say the specific fan bases here are actually entitled, since Zed and such are legitimately fine, popular, and updated frequently.
I kinda get it for like Ryze, Vel, and Shen but most of these champs, and recent skin debacles are over totally fine champs
@@De_La_Evo Shen returned to support champion with new items. Shen cant push the lane and has w bugs too many.. Shen got nerfed q skill %7hp-%6hp dmg. Shen vs morde matchup or hard someone, shen just press q because another skills dont give dmg minions, shen is so weak lategame. But Zed and Ryze they have not big lane issues or skillset. Shen autoattack autoattack minions.. And Couldownsss w=22 sec in e=18 sec r=200 second. Becareful level one 1v1 to shen. And win the lane shen is gone botlane go push lane and take turret shen loses xp and maybe die bot lane.
@@De_La_Evodo you think so about riven mains? I gotta say that a lot of us (riven mains) didn't really want buffs because low pick and ban rate is cool. She also had decent win rates. But she's actually not fun to play, she has no identity in modern league. Much of an effort for so low reward, she's meh bruiser, meh skirmisher and meh split pusher. She's just vacuum overfarming, snowballing and goldscaling something and it only works because of rav hydra.
I love how every main subreddit works like a private tribe and the way they communicate is like politics xD
cause politics is just tribe vs tribe
On malzahar main subreddit, there is just nothing except some people asking for the skin, so no politic here
They're just lobbyists 😂😂😂
Rell mains redditor here: A lot of the politics we had for a while was "Boycott until revert", "New Rell No Good, I quit until changes" and "I don't know how to win with new rell. Here's what needs to be changed". Right now, were quiet, but still angry about high noon leona.
As a chogath main, watching people boycott because their champ isnt meta is kinda funny considering chogath doesnt get lore or meta relevancy
All strenght to u, but what is a cho'gath?
At least cho is fine. Right before the Vel boykott and when Riot August saw his state in the game, Vel had a 44% wr in master+.
As an AP kogmaw main i feel you
Shaco 🤝 chogath
Hahaha true... who the fuck is that?
Saying "Seraphine was the first boycott" is just a kick to Ryze mains blue balls
Its honestly kinda ridiculous lmao
yeah, the moment he said 4 champs i thought that he was talking about ryze.
Ryze wasn't a boycott though. They used The Plan, which revolved around playing the champion a LOT
All 3 of them
DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE PLAN HERE
To be fair, Shen's problem is that because of his ult and the way the game is, the power balance of shen is messed up making him basically a top support. On top of this he had some messed up interactions.
W not blocking Fiora vitals is some bullshit
tbh if we didn't had kha6 ult that one will be so lore accurate ult for shen
I thought it was less of a problem and more the point of the champ
But isn't that the whole point of the champ? I mean yeah he can fight and stand his ground but what else is he gonna do with his ultimate?
I mean shen was also a bruiser tank hybrid early game but riot ended up nerfing the bruiser part of him aka the fun part about shen which is why there's a boycott in the first place.
People actually boycotting and not just saying they will is the most bizarre thing in this story
young people are notoriously becoming more severe in following up on what they say, young people work purely off of spite, and well, league has that in spades.
@@ItsAMaelstrom and i'm all for it xD
@@ItsAMaelstromlet's not forget that leagues average player base age is like 30+ tho.
So has virtually nothing to do with younger people
@@ItsAMaelstrompeople often underestimate how strong of a motivation annoyance and spite are lol. Some of the best inventions were because someone felt slighted and wanted their get back😂
@@RiptidexRiltreks 30+??? are you playing the same league of legends everyone else is talking about it’s like 16-30 bro
For Vel'koz, they actually buffed him (his passive ratio) but then there was the Phreak incident (saying that vel'koz mains didnt gave feedback), and now they actually are testing ideas from Azzap in PBE, like his E travelling faster and having bug fixed.
So, pretty cool
The passive damage change wasn't want we wanted really
But the one in PBE where the E is more consistent is much better
I can tell you for a fact Vel'koz mains never ever want raw damage. Vel'koz's kit allow him to snowball out of control and does insane amounts of damage, but the sad part is, e.g a 7/0 Akali/Jayce/Sett/Graves/Jarvan/Lee, the list goes on and on and on, if they run into you or vice versa, you're just dead, whereas if you ran into a 7/0 Vel'koz, if you can dodge his ability and kite his E (which is so ridicilously hard to land considering the amount of dashes), he's worthless and has no impact. So all we want was for his E to get patched so his stun is more reliable, reduce counterplay which increase his survivability when he clashed with champion with gap close, or a last effort stun when a 14/1 Rengar jump out of you in a bush so he gets stun and your team can get a shut down counterplay
@@FishyLipzdon’t forget he had the flash E bug where his E would just not go off and fizzle vel needed to get E fix the other compensation for the newer champs with there crazy dashes
@@FishyLipz As a velkoz player damage is never the problem.
Staying alive is the problemXD
@@FishyLipzhonestly it wasn't even dashes. Most champs can just walk over it if they have decent move speed. I've walk over it as Ornn lmao
Riot August's live reaction to Vel'koz's uselessness live on stream after insisting he was in a good spot is legitimately one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
That moment reminded me of when Phlox played Ryze thinking it was gonna be a grand old time with an easy fun champ. Only to die so much (because the champion is worth less than useless) he had to unban himself the next day 😂
And then later Phreak complaining about not getting feedback when there were so much over the years was gold
@@BlankDriver The difference between August, talking without knowing shit and instead of telling everyone stupid, he does research and admits being in the wrong, but phreak no, he has the data, the numbers, he knows it all and everyone else is a stupid basement dweller that barely knows what he's talking about. Man if August was the person in charge of interacting with the community it would be so much better.
Phreak deserves the bullying
@@BlueA but people would be delusional then. phreak is harsh but he is not wrong xD phreak was talking about wanting specific things being in feedback and not just people complaining that something doesnt feel nice. so yes, saying "my champ is bad" is feedback, its just not good feedback. just the same as saying "Jhins e is useless" it is feedback but its useless feedback. why do things feel bad? what do you think would make it feel better, what is the reason you notice it the most? these are all things that need to be taken into account when giving feedback for a champ. so using these 4 hyper specific examples to prove the point against phreak is just disingenuous. the shen issues were literal pages long explaining things in detail and it was done by a few people with giga brains. thats not average feedback from a normal person. and even in this case, it changed absolutely nothing.
People have already stated it but the issue is rito only listens to pitchforks lmao.
Case in point: Yorick's hat. People were requesting Riot to give that cool feature, but they only calmly did it.
You need to send threats to Riot before they listen. Which is wtf lmao
@@hachiko2692seraphine mains know how to get their skins lol. Yorick mains were just too kind
@@hachiko2692Not really, you just need lots of people. The issue is that gathering people calmly is extremely inefficient compared to using the pitchfork method. People will hate anything. All they need is a spark and a popular figure to rally behind.
@@louisrobitaille5810 No, not really. A lot of people have been clamoring for gamemodes for a long time until Arena dropped. A lot of people also noticed the obvious bias towards egirl skins back then, completely ignoring niche champs. It took Riot a **while** for them to actually notice this and act on it.
Doesn't matter how many people reach out to Riot, as long as they're not threatening Riot, they won't do jackshit.
@@hachiko2692Delusional take, this is why they don't listen to you weirdos. I wouldn't either.
5:50
Seraphine was always supposed to be primarily a midlane mage (in her champ spotlight), and support became her secondary unofficial role due to her teamwide utility
Riot was planning to ignore midlane seraphine (~0.7 pr) in order to bring her APC (53-55% wr) and support (47-49% wr) closer together, despite her being originally designed for mid
Seraphine mains boycotted because most of the dedicated OTPs are mid/APC enjoyers as opposed to the large ratio of her player base who plays her as support. Support sera players also didn't like the changes because many of them played her with AP items too... even though on paper the changes were a buff, she lost her weak lane -> hyper scaling mage identity, which didn't sit well with fans of her original kit numbers
I feel like the Vel,coz boycott worked so well because how active Azzapp was. Not to mention he had a lot of experience which we was vocal about and knowledge of game design which imo gave him a much better angle to respond to Phreak as he was I think the only boycott that would correct Phreak multiple times on design and bugs. Glad the void boy got some much needed changes
Seeing this stuff going down as someone who mained pre rework Aurelion Sol is certainly something.
It makes me feel a weird combination of jealousy, but also gratefulness, that at least some other unpopular champion mains are getting their voices heard, and some of the issues of their champions addressed. Even if the boycotts themselves were likely not as impactful as they might have appeared at first.
I mean look at og aatrox. Loved champ, finally good in the meta on top of seeing pro play. And they just delete him
@@dracotoy newtrox >>>>>>>>>>> oldtrox.
He was literally just a stat stick. He was "loved" because he got overbuffed and was overtuned. Stfu
@@johnpauljonesisabadass8134 they hate you because you speak the truth
@@johnpauljonesisabadass8134 He had good and bad matchups (like any champion that is). And Riot added broken items like Rageblade into the game without taking him into consideration, which pretty much made him win every 1v1 lane save for maybe a Jax with a couple items. It's not like new Aatrox hasn't had some equally ridiculous moments in the meta like he recently did with Duskblade, or him dominating two Worlds metas. The only difference is that Riot didn't even attempt to balance 7.5 Aatrox because they admitted they were going to rework him soon anyways. And nobody can know for sure if people would've stopped loving him if Rageblade was going to get nerfed (let's be real it would've taken more than a simple numbers nerf to get rid of the synchronization between Aatrox's W and Rageblade. One of them was bound to get reworked / altered, and it likely would've been the item). Reworked Aatrox had dismal playrates up until pros showcased his potential, which made people pick him up. And after he got nerfed people still spammed him even though he felt like shit to play, in hopes of Riot making him strong again. Old Aatrox needed the same "mainstream" introduction for people to get a taste of his gameplay and stay loyal to it regardless of how weak it would've gotten and wait till' he would be strong again.
@@dracotoyNew Fiora never hit the same as OG all-attack runes/talents riposte lv.1 Fiora
It's funny to think that they are revamping the rivalries system and Shen vs Zed is the first that they show, like the complaints worked more than expected
The Vel'koz saga was something to watch in real time. Azzapp put out a well thought out list of things to adjust (and NOT to touch too!) in conjunction with other Vel players, and Riot did exactly what they asked them not to do 🤣. And THEN, Phreak really came out and said with his whole chest that a) Vel'koz mains didn't give any meaningful feedback (as if Azzapp's document wasn't sitting right there in the sun!) and b) his E was in fact working as intended and didn't fizzle and any statements to the contrary were figments in the collective imaginations of the Vel mains. Then a couple of days later, August comes out and says "yep, that fizzling is a bug alright" and adjusted Vel'koz. 🤣 You can't make this shit up!
Phreak really should think before he speaks sometimes. At the least, August picked up the slack and adjusted Vel so that his E is a more reliable self-peel and catch tool.
I think you got the Seraphine situation backwards. She was designed to Mid with Support as her secondary and Mid has a higher winrate than support, but far more players play her support despite the lower winrate. Riot was trying to change her more towards support while leaving mid alone (and they want the bot play lowered)
the support propaganda has spread too far
According to the most recent patchnotes, Riot themselves flat out says that they still want her to be played as support while making her more powerful as a midlaner. In other words, she's not going to be played in a different role, she's just going to get stronger and Riot knows it.
@@silverwing5254 That doesn't change the fact that she was designed as a midlane mage, Riot stated this multiple times. It's even in the champion spotlight.
@@WitikoAmor Oh, I absolutely agree with that. The problem is that Riot doesn't understand that the playerbase doesn't play those characters as midlaners like intended. They are played as cheesy burst supports who essentially function as a second better ADC.
@@silverwing5254 I don't understand what you mean by this? What different role? Do you mean bot apc? Because I did say riot wants to nerf it while leaving mid power neutral and buffing support. I don't know what you mean about the patch notes either. That's not what I got from reading it. It said their previous patch buffed support and mid got a boost as well which they intended but bot also gained winrate which they didn't want. So they were nerfing her back down with changes focused on making bot worse. Maybe the line about q nerfs being bad for all positions but least bad for mid is where you got the idea they want to buff mid and not support.
Seraphie is a Mid Carry not a Supp. Supp is her second role. Thats 1 thing he got wrong there. ^^
He has the seraphine situation wrong it was actually mid being her intended role and support being really bad but people kept forcing her support lowering her winrate therefore riot thought about just turning her into a full on support.
Her support players also keep building the wrong items, secondary runes and max the wrong skills first, further lowering her winrate, while her APC playerbase has her build pretty much optimized atm, keeping her winrate even higher in comparison.
Seraphine's initial release suffered from Riot making the same mistake with her as they did with Mordekaiser. They set out to design a solo laner, and then gave her a lot of team focused abilities. (Though in Morde's case they made an AOE team shredder and gave him a 1v1 ultimate.) Players saw that kit that was allegedly meant to belong to a solo laner and said "Then why the hell is half her kit designed around having an ally next to her?"
You got the Seraphine situation wrong. Support is Her worst role while having the highest pick rate.
Seraphine came out with the idea of fitting in the same role as orianna. She was main mid and her secoundary was support. Riot said if she gets to strong in support they nerf her just there and buff her for mid. Then riot made a patch nerfing her mid and buffing her support, at this point in many eyes she wasnt a midlaner anymore. Most people are a suprised if they hear that she was supposed to be a midlaner.
Seraphine was always intended to be a midlane mage first, idk where you got your misinformation from, but she was always supposed to be a utility mage and not a primary support. Her champion spotlight calls her "a melodic midlane mage". The idea of the changes was to reign in her botlane power, while keeping mid and support equal, so that they are able to buff the champions power in general for her intended role (mid) and her most played role (support) without making her better as an APC.
As a Shen main, I was mainly interested in the boycott to address the bugs. Shen's W is both really good and really buggy lol
As a TFT player, I'm so into the lore created outside of LOL but related to LOL
You must like LoR then
Meanwhile Zilean mains bragging how he didn't get a direct buff/nerf for the longest time.
Sssshhhhh before someone notice how over tune his number are
It's well known that Zilean is extremely busted but he's allowed to stay that way because no one wants to play him. Riot has even outright said that if Zilean ever becomes even remotely close to popular they'll break his knees.
@@leetriyep, basically all Riot designers have said this same thing over the years lol. He is indeed intentionally not changed much because they do not want the champ played, his kit is ACTUALLY secretly the most toxic thing in the game lol
zilean is just really hard to play and can't carry games as much as other midlaners,but holy shit he makes up for it with how busted his stats are
honestly, necrit could sell me everything. his voice + enthusiasm are amazing
He almost made me watch the entire video even tho it was about nothing
The boycott of Shen was more about things that were wrong with Shen, bolstered by the other problems xPetu talked about. Even to this day there are still things that his W isn't blocking that should be blocked.
Mid wasn't supposed to be Seraphine's secondary role... Ever... IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HER PRIMARY ROLE FFS.
They're not boycotting for buffs, they're boycotting for bug fixes and they're doing a good job
No, it's not
You clearly didn't watch the video because they're boycotting for both. Though the buffs will probably never come 🤡.
@@kingofdragons7 Velkoz had a bug that made his only disengage/combo tool not work sometimes, which is a death sentence for an immobile mage in 2023 where everything got speed/dashes. Shen had a bug where his W let through empowered autos(including sheen) when its suppose to block all autos. both of those have been in the game for years.
Shen mains were boycotting for bug fixes and to make the champ more of a toplaner and less of a shieldslut. Vel´koz were boycotting to make the champ fun in a meta with dashes. But Morde and Zed mains were just crying to cry.
@@ayuubabukar6388Yes, and Shen mains one of their complains and was fixed were about how his W had so many interactions that shouldn't happen because they were just a bug (it was a long list, like not blocking Fiora vitals, mordekaiser stacking passive while blocking his basic attacks, etc.)
I feel for Vel'koth's mains, honestly. Giving direct and blunt feedback, particularly about bugs, getting a "buff" that ignores all the feedback, then getting told they actually never gave feedback at all?
I saw that shit in real time and man. It sucks for them.
as someone with nearly 150k points on Velkoz, when I saw they merely buffed passive, I highkey feared it cause I knew that meant that: 1. his kit, which was already risk-reward balanced is going to be disproportionately rewarded and as such everyone's just gonna see him as a cheese pick, which in turn: 2. would increase his ban rate and inadvertently continue the boycott unintentionally, although to a much less effective rate of response because clearly according to recent Phreak: "if the champ's ban rate is high, he's in a good state" (In response to a comment on Reddit about giving Rakan a nerf). So effectively, not only did this mean that Velkoz is unplayable cause his E just fucking sucks and playing around it still felt like trying to shoot eagles with a flintlock, but now he's even more unplayable cause you don't even get the chance to pick him.
Sad times I tell ya.
I hope Riot wont release any champion after Hwei for a year. Boycotts will continue to happen every time a new champ is released because the gap between the old and new will remind those who main older champions how outdated they are. Riot need s to rework alot of champs visually and kit-wise.
I hoped Riot would stop releasing new champions for years, but apparently they need more vehicles to drive skin sales (Seraphine being a prime example). Nowadays I just can't bring myself to care anymore, and I barely play the game I used to love.
Zed mains: Our champion sucks right now, fellow players, we must band together and revolt against Riot to convince them Zed needs to be buffed!
EVERY CHAMPION THAT DIES TO ZED: 🤨
Add zed mains to the list of brian dead patients, please.
PLEASE
My hot take for Ryze specifically is that they should quit reworking him and just bring his Original Kit back (or at least what i think was the original) the one where his ult would give him aoe and spell vamp. I genuinely believe that with how much league has power crept that kit could be balanced better than anything else theyve tried with him
Just true damage Ryze :)
Bro
Not all champs need to be playable in solo queue
There are champions like azir ryze or zeri that are good champions but incredibly hard to play
ur right but i dont think any champion should only be viable when played by pros or people who have 1000+ hours on the champion. Which is ryze's problem, they will never buff him because the pros make him essentially unbalanceable because with his current kit if anything is ever decent in solo q the pros will make it pick or ban, same goes for azir tbh theyre badly designed and need to be fixed but at least ryze HAD a good kit at some point that riot got rid of because they didnt like the mage tank build that he had.@@catalintimofti1117
They won't revert back the spell vAmp ryze due to the sole reason that faker would win another Worlds with him again.
The reason Sera Mains are mad is because she was created for mid, but they're pushing her into support. She was not a "really good support", she actually sucked. Yeah, who could have thought that the SCALING MIDLANE MAGE with abilities that move the speed of a Toyota Corolla, Q with execute DMG and 28s cd shield that you can't put points into because it scales with lvls 1-18, would actually be a terrible support. But the enchanter mains are illiterate and decide to force her into support because omg a cute girly champion with pink hair (they tried doing it with Gwen, too).
Also, support Sera has never "spiralled out of control". The reason behind all the changes to her was actually that she sucked as a support but she was insanely strong as an APC so they tried to buff her as a support while nerfing APC. They failed.
I just wish riot would fix bugs on their own as a game maintenance thing instead of having fans pressure them into doing it.
I think my favorite was from the Vladimir subreddit. Basically said “Hey riot we like him just how he is. Don’t lay a finger on him. We would however like a new bald skin as there’s only 1 and we want more options.”
Isn't the title quite off? Aren't the boycotts directed to bugfixes and quality of life changes rather then straight up buffs?
yep, azzap literally said in the first sentence of his tweet to not buff vel'koz damage and riot the lazy company they are just buffed it
Shen and Vel´koz were directed towards bugfixes and changes to make the champs fun. Zed and Morde on the other hand just wanted to be more in the meta. And Zed specifically just wanted to be more OP than he already is.
This was such a wholesome, and fun story! I just started league, so I don't realy know how this "fighting for your main's buffs" thing works, (I suck in all the ways for now) but this is why this phenomenon felt so exotic, and exciting. Thank you for the amazing video!
This wasn't simply fighting for buffs. That's a yearly thing with every meta swing and change. The boycotts were more about playstyle and actual grounds for feedback. Some people have been begging for changes and reworks for a literal decade.
Just remember, this is how League of Legend community you will have to face. I didn't mean you shouldn't try and start playing League but you have to put this in your mind that the community is full of clusterfuck and toxicity. The game itself is not bad, it is decent enough to get addicted really fast and Riot now slow getting back to their prime so... Have fun!
@@synckar6380 I didn't use the correct terminology, and I don't like that too, but you understood what I ment didn't you?
Basicly every old champ is suffering from feature creep some much more then others but sometimes riot hears you out other times they dont
Fun thing about vel'koz : did you know he's one of if not the only champion that never been overpowered?
We should look at it from another perspective: Riot games wont properly balance their champions until the fanbase literally boycotts the game.
To be fair, 90% of this "Riot Fix" is just undoing their failed "mythic item update". Lethality will also work like old armor reduction again. Dont get me wrong, I will command that Riot for trying something new but I am just really happy that get items that will not warp the game around them.
win rate is not a good way to look at the strength of a champ. neither is its pick rate or ban rate. it just gives a vague idea and then devs have to look at where champs struggle in the game and at what time of the game they struggle in and what they struggle against or with. its not as simple as "win rate 48% champ bad"
I still feel pretty disappointing in how Phreak treated the Velkoz boycott.
Necrit babe you got the Seraphine info COMPLETELY wrong lmao
I still remember the stream where a Riot dev was talkin about how vel koz Is actually doin pretty good, but after seeing his winrate, He did a 180 And said that he needs buffs.
i like how Necrit went from explaining the lore of the League of Legends characters, to explaining the lore of the characters that play League of Legends.
Shyvanamains lost every sense of reality and doesn't even believe their champ will be buffed in then next 15 years. It is really depressing over there
Shyvana doesn't need buffs, she needs a full rework. Her kit is unhealthy, it wouldn't be good for the game if she was viable. Can't wait for her to become an actual champion.
@@Darkprosper Summed it up pretty much. But the all around doomer energy from that subreddit is palpable.
Champions like vel'koz sitting at 45% winrate getting a small buff, versus 50% winrate Riven getting a significant buff.
Definitely no bias here.
Funny how Riot said there is too much dmg in the game, and now theyre adding even more dmg for mages and assassins
Two patch after the durability patch they started to buff damage, they told they wanted to start to nerf junglers for avoid powercreep but did it for two patch aswell before return on the buffs
Just cause assassins and even further ap assassins (or just burst mage in general) complain about being unable to kill some one from 100% in a single rotation, calling themselfs useless and cry out loud for buffs
they are also adding strong armor and magic resist items
@@Luksed12 magic pen was broken already,but it works for armor beacuse armor pen/reduction is actually ballanced
@@Luksed12the only mr option was force of nature before the nerfs. When Magic pen is based on a % will f you up no matter how much mr you build
The fact riot uses external graphs and statistics to balance champions / items is exploitable, I never enjoy that idea and was always in favor that they need to ignore all that and they are the ones that need to test all champions and items iterations... they need to stop being lazy and put hands to work, and only use those external information as a POSSIBLE target to investigate.
The seraphine controversy is wrong, seraphine was not being boycotted because of struggles. Bot lane(adc seraphine) had insane win rates 54% but a low pickrate, mid lane had lower winrate and also low pickrate. A lot of people pick her as support for some god forsaken reason and her winrate turned out to be bad there. So Phreak decided it was time to change seraphine to a support instead of the midlane mage she was released as. So a lot of players got mad because they think that either mid/bot sera will be nerfed into oblivion invalidating their main choice and making support the only choice (in the patch notes she was literally referred to as supporthafine in a tweet from the riot balance team). People are now fearing a karma treatment where the champion is promised a midscope to be nuked into support duty.
I wonder how the Teemo situation will evolve from here, so many complaints and adapting to the changes and the seemingly impossible probability of his kit changing.
Does RIOT remember Corki exists?
Zed terrorized the Meta for with his CDR caster build for a few patches this year and it was the most toxic time to play league. I wouldn't mind if he was in the Shadows for like a year.
That ending of the morde mains saying it was stupid to boycott was so fucking funny omg, i hope necrit dose more of these cause i try not to be apart of the community for this reason so this helps keep me updated on league stuff
Speaking for Shen mains here for a bit:
We did not associate with the people that cried wolf in our subreddit for boycotting their champion, they were complaining with a full plate while we barely had crumbs for years now
And yeah Shen was always somewhat useful, but the fact his playstyle completely punishes him for doing what he's meant to do, and he's punished for wanting to go above and beyond that, simply isn't a fun aspect of the champion
6:15 amm. No.
You got it all wrong necrit😢.
Seraphine was NEVER a support champion. She was a "melodic MIDLANE mage with lots of potential".
However, after tons of "sona 2.0" comments, and the nature of her looks( cute uwu girl), the support hivemind began playing her.
Her supp position was never good, except for a couple patches when moonstone was bugged on her( I don't know what it did, but I'm guessing it made her heal every w cast, or it made her give tons of shields).
Apart from that, in terms of winrates, seraphine has almost always been best at apc->mid->supp. And in terms of pickrates it goes supp->apc->mid. In low elo, she is only played support. Almost no otps there. However, in high elo there are half apc otps and half supp otps. With some mid otps( and a whopping and scary 0.1% top otps) scattered here and there. And even then, supp players tend to play her as a mage.
With that out of the way, let me explain the controversy. Seraphine has always been a carry mage. Her fantasy was like viktor or cassio or ryze. She needs tons of gold to begin dealing good amounts of damage and provide lots of shields. Riot, basically, attempted to transition seraphine into an enchanter. How? By nerfing her scaling and giving her tons more of base damage. . .
Why is that bad? Well, now apc seraphine only needs 200 ap to deal lots of damage( 2 items approximately). She then proceeds to build enchanter items and hope that the game ends quickly. Before, her gameplan was to farm and wait for her 3 item spike. She always played for late. That was her fantasy.
So, as many seraphine otps said in their posts, this was going to destroy her identity and was going to fail Riot's goal in tuning her apc wr with supp. Now she is nerfed and is facing a "larger scope of changes". She is in the process of being "karmafied". Aka, turning into a full time enchanter. That is why we attempted to stop riot. But I think most of us gave up by this time. . .
Moonstone bug was just old Moonstone proccing everytime she gained notes, basically every time she cast and ability, hit it or not, she would proc old Moonstone and heal the closest teammate, meanwhile it was supposed to work just when damaging enemies.
@@astuccioabusato1736 oh, i see. I see how that moonstone was the absolute best option xD
I got to understand the Seraphine changes now seeing all the reworked and buffed mage and supp items, but I’m still happy they listened to us and fixed some things either way! Also I’m happy Sera mains learned how to be vocal the right way!! ^ ^
As a Mordekaiser main the idea of the boycott was kinda weird.
Since mordekaiser is a popular champion in lower elos it would have been almost impossible to convince everyone to stop playing him, specially when we don't have a "face" for mordekaiser mains as shen or vel'koz mains do.
Of course the new season is creating hype around the subreddit, but the champ himself is not getting fixed. There's too much mobility in the game, the power budget of Mordekaiser kit is on a unreliable and buggy ability and so on.
Anyway I hope that balance team gets to notice everyone's complains and fix them at its own time. Thanks for the videos Necrit huehuehuehue
the only option is to rework him again, its only right he gets changed for the 600th time for a new map
He should be reverted to old morde
I've said this several years ago, just let the players vote on which champs should get buffed/nerfed. Unless something is absolutely broken & ruining gameplay there's no reason to be tweaking the champs this much.
That is not a good solution either.
You would have unpopular champions like Vel'Koz going against the entire Chinese population that play Yasuo.
Riot listens to the fire rather than the screams associated with it.
Change is slow, of course, but they generally wait until things hit the fan hard and fast before they change anything.
If they start moving away from the numbers and into how the character feels to play overall, they might be able to make higher quality changes rather than fast ones.
and then you get an insanely unbalanced game with people getting extremely elo infalted or deflated and their ranks will be ruined until a hard reset which will never happen ever. they have to make constant changes over and over while taking the future and past into account. which they dont do. they make changes then forget they made changes and champs spiral oput of control.
This isn't an action plan, it's a vague nothing burger request that no one, including rioters have an actual way of doing. Their holistic analytics do also still matter, the community (especially mains of champs) is not always right about balance.
Just, make the characters feel better, jesus
Gameplay surveys for mains of champs, invite proposals/collaboration from high level representatives of a champs player base, put out more query polls to grab community temp on change topics, prioritize mechanic balancing in favor of stat balancing, or you know, anything that would actually be fucking productive or give a direction.
Sorry you aren't the problem yourself, it feels like 90% of this community has your problem of not knowing wtf their talking about but saying what they want anyway
Thats Dota 2, very unbalanced, very fun
@@andreamarques8328 It does feel better to play some Dota characters, purely at those wonderful times when you get something like the chances of a Walrus punch
Funniest part is
The change where lethality just shreds armor independent of level means zed will actually need nerfs not buffs
This isn’t the player’s fault
They have every right to be annoyed by Riot’s “general appeal” and “pro-play” balancing and attention allocation
If Riot just actually listened to the people who make them money civilly, on very obvious issues like Yorick’s hat, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Stop releasing champs, stop making fomo gamemodes, stop ignoring champs they made irrelevant.
Rito does not deserve sympathy or relief from any of this
(By “Riot” I mean corporate not the poor, knee-on-their-necks, devs and artists)
If pros and tops can demand and get changes they want why can't everyone else
There should never be a high rank and pro focus in balancing
Those fucks have to adapt to changes made not tune their champs to be op
nothing feels worse than maining a "proplay" champ
you have to put in double the work compared to some other toplane statstick beacuse your champ is cursed to be played at worlds all the time beacuse it's a safe pick
some of them get nerfed into the ground(ryze) while others remain ok for dedicated players(gnar,braum) and it feels like it never changes
@@МаксБурый-р2ю e-xactly. Im so goad the community has woken up to this.
No game should ever be balanced around esports majority
@@somo4227 I play Azir and Queen Rek
I know how this feels big time
@@somo4227 olaf moment
Clarification on seraphine:
She wanst "good" in sup role(especially considering that her only supportive ability has a 20 plus sec cd) just her appearance attracts a lot of e girls-type players, which we know tends to play sup.....so after a while riot notice seraphine was played more on bot role(apc and sup.....although more on sup rather than apc) they decided to give her a mini rework with the intention of making her a sup.......which angered the sera mains so the sera main complained(they didnt boycott seraphine, they simply complained......which riot cant ignored because seraphine generate a lot of money for them)so technically shen/ryze started the boycott
The only reason why the "Vel'Koz boycott" started is because the winrate is only high with pros like Azzapp playing Vel'Koz and inflating its winrate. Riot didnt believe he was bad with his at the time current winrate.
balance ? as a shyvana otp i don't know what that word mean, i only know that i took 6 nerf (9 if you count nerf for items) this year and that shyvana "peaked" at 41% wr last patch for master+ and 44% in D2+
Edit : before anyone start with "but it's only in master +" yeah and so was velkoz otp uprise with "46%wr" it was only in master+
its like seeing a category of workers striking and then others seeing the power of the strikes, developing class awareness and joining in, but sadly we're not seizing the means of production but at least people can have their mains playable again!
can really feel a certain kind of person oozing from these champ main subreddits, its always referring to eachother as "brothers" and "gentlemen" and forgetting that women (like me with velkoz) main these champs too :(
5:53 Seraphine was designed as a mid mage as her primary role
yet riot chose to give her a passive that require a second person near her
@@alessandroseverino8222 Notes generate when Seraphine is alone too, and her own notes do actually way more damage then her allies notes.
I've been meme'ing about waiting for a singed rework for over 10 years.
The most changes he has seen besides number tweaks is grounded/root, and his passive. Imo his old Mana=>HP passive was better since itemizing he could be a mana-tank, getting more value from other items like Frozen Heart or Rod of Ages.
Out of all the Ultimates that are just buffs, his is the least interesting. Its just the kitchen sink in stats, which can be attributed 1:1 with correlating stats per gold. Using Rank 1 is effectively fighting with a 2,000 gold buff worth of stats.
His playstyle is scuffed, and super unique due to his dated design. People hate proxy singed, but riot not touching him is directly why this is, all his matchups in lane are so bad- why lane?
Dota's yearly Post-TI patches flip so many characters around, I just dont understand how riot's patches are so stale.
i really do enjoy his presentations on these matters and the voice he does when reading reddit posts/
As a yorick main im happy with the new void monsters before herald and with a new herald as well :) not sure about mythics getting removed but ill figure out somthing
straight men stop trying to lump seraphine into a support even though she’s much better as a carry challenge 😀
Well for shen mains, sure the titanic hydra is back we are all happy for it BUT there's shit ton of other issues that they haven't addressed with many of shen's bugs. Althought fiora passive now "should" work properly on shen's W that's like the tip of the iceberg of inconsistent W. They also need to shift more of his R power budget to other abilities, cause he is still extremely reliant on that the team should carry him. the boycott although didn't do almost anything, it did raise awareness and made riot at least talk about him. I were just glad that they are starting to look into shen. cause the fiora passive bug on shen have been there for almost 7 years (jesus christ i'm old). I kind of expected something to change with how we enjoy playing shen on the new season and they confirmed it when they said they going to remove mythics. since that restrictions gave tanks not enough MR items to play around. and those that existed were more or less niched.
But looking at those new items i can't say that it would be change much to shen's enjoyment. since previous changes still there that affects him.
I love playing morde... but no matter how fed i am, once enemy master yi/jax/trundle gets 2 items... it is 1000% over, no matter the build.. damage creep and mobility (same in velkoz case) are the issue (i main morde, aatrox, vel, shen, shyvana and khazix for reference)
5:18 YOU TRICKED ME. wellplayed sir
Imagine how dystopian a game has to be for the CUSTOMERS to go on strike. And riot just retreats further and further into denial and delusion.
As a mod of both Shen and Zedmains this has been hilarious to watch unfold. I never thought I'd see the day where you are giving subreddit lore of my own subs xD
As a Shen main, I played Shen everywhere except top because that just didnt work. You got countered by everyone.
As the other Shen mains said, the Boycott didnt do much. So we can only wait this patch until the mythic removal and hope it gets us something.
Other People wanted to boycott their champs for stupid reasons.
Xayah and Rakan mains boycotting for their skins, which would only result the opposite.
Yuumi mains for... idk the reason but something stupid cuz yuumi is good.
...
Yea that's what i wanted to say :D
the shen boycott did absolutely nothing for the champ. it didnt even affect his play rate or win rate xD it was useless. and riot did nothing about it either. they fixed bugs which they would have fixed anyways. mythic removal will do nothing for shen. it might allow some forbidden technology but that doesnt fix the issue shen has. his problem is built into his kit. nothing to do with itemisation
17:20 Aatrox mains and Morde mains have been chill for as long I've seen.
As a mordekaiser main I didn't realize I had to do a boycott
Great video! I'm very ambivalent about the chain-reaction of boycotts that followed our Shen one. Many people misunderstood my original video as asking for buffs, when I specifically recommended power-neutral changes and bug fixes to Shen, even including a list of proposed nerfs. Shen is/was in an odd position where his dominant strategy (supportive, low-interaction) is not the one I, among many other Shen players, find fun. Nevertheless, it is great to see all the passion that the champion main communities have, even if it is slightly misguided.
Seraphine is a recent balancing example of why you DON'T design a champion to exist in a solo lane and as support.
Top Lane Soraka was killed and Support Soraka was GUTTED as a result and she wasn't even designed to solo lane. When they actually try to deal with the hybrid laners, they basically screw up by reducing their max health by 2.
I was once a Velkoz main because he has my most fave kit, but stopped because of his position in modern league. He has 0 mobility, his E is so slow mo, and he could be easily countered with his slow pace and skillshots. I supported the boycott and I can say the Vel mains were pretty civilized, but the thing is how Phreak treated us like he was deaf when we protested. It's like he doesn't care about Vel or even tried playing as him to realize the struggles. At least we get a rework E which is a dream.
I could just keep watching these Reddit Main videos forever.
TBF I wanted to do some kind of video for making Mordekaiser more fun,not buffed. It's kinda sad to see him being outrun by a Renata support by just using and shurelya..
Beautiful video. I really appreciate every single video you post on this channel. I just wanna thank you for everything. In the League Community i always looked for the positive people but there arent so many. A lot of content creators even build their whole channel concept around ranting about League of Legends. (For example i quit watching skooch a long time ago because he was too negative for my taste. ) Im very happy that people like you who try to see the bright side and have hope exist. Pls keep this hopeful and positive side of yours. I think you are actually changing the perception of Lol players towards their own game. Thank you again and i hope you can stay with us for a little while.
zed is truly behind now. there are assasins who can onetshot with targeted abilities, while zed's shurikens can be dodged with overbuffed ms/ and his damage is same with target ones
Unfortunately, the new/changed items will not help Mordekaiser with the problems he has.
the only thing that confuses me is the statements against phreak having aged poorly when alot of the ones ive heard have been warranted and deserved
It’s so hard for Riot to avoid toxicity.
All they gotta do is say “hey, we are listening, we got a few changes coming up soon. Thanks”
Uh… They've been doing in a very obvious way since like January and it hasn’t changed anything 😐. Meddler and BrightMoon are literally directly relating updates, asking for feedback and stuff, and having other employees share their part too every few weeks.
The issue with toxicity is that everyone has a different opinion of how the game should be balanced and most of those opinions contradict each other. They're also made from a bubble of ignorance in the sense that people's opinion usually affects only one champion at a time without taking into account the impact that such a change would have on all other champions, IN ALL ELOS.
The multi-elo thing is what makes balancing the game a nightmare. The game has to be roughly as balanced in Bronze as it is in Challenger even though the meta is conpketely different, the games don't last as long, and the strategies to win are completely different too.
@@louisrobitaille5810 I think this is mainly talking about Preak, his comments frankly just seem like he's trying to piss the playerbase off when he talks over the patch changes as one of the balance leads. It feels like he focuses in on every toxic complaint while actively ignoring feedback, there will always be some toxicity but when he always calls it out and shit on players it only makes them want to be toxic since you just ignored the honest criticism some gave, so why bother trying to be constructive at that point.
@@louisrobitaille5810 People mostly complain about the state of the game, in the balance matter, wich they barely adress but mostly speak about upcoming *broad* changes and such... The "face" of the balance team it's, sadly, "beloved" (in an ironic way) Phreak but sadly he's unable to hide his bias and pull out petty jokes in response to feedback.
Sure is uncool get death treaths but we know allready some people that play league should be glued to the grass for rehabilitation purpose, yet he's not new to act as a man child wich is quite unprofessional
As a velkoz main who's just kinda stopped playing the champ, I just stopped playing him and just learned new champs. I feel a lot of the dips in pickrate is just the champion is weak and other champs wins more...
Hi Necrit, seems weird that you’re saying seraphine was a “good support” you clearly did no research on seraphine’s balance state at all or read the patch notes. Her support was always her worst role by far. With 47% winrate while mid and bot both enjoyed 50%+ winrate. Most seraphine mains were upset that riot was purposely pushing her away from mid (her initial intended role.) because the changes were intended to buff SUPPORT because support was weak (weird you said the changes were to nerf support???) This change felt like it would alienated the dedicated seraphine mains that play her as a laner instead of a support. Just wanted to correct since this kind of spreads misinformation about the intention of the seraphine changes.
game's community doesn't need seraphine mid to be viable, sorry, toxic gameplay is not good for the game :)
seraphine was designed to be a mid laner - riot games
also riot alright: but she is a support now
Am new to playing main League and Vel'koz was a surprise pick that I really enjoyed.
Man, coming to League with a Dota2 background, where main patches were maybe once a year and balance patches happen maybe every 2-3 months, these problems and the way they affect the public seem so hilarious! Thanks for the update on the dramas!
The league community is uniquely spoiled in regards to speed and activity of balancing from developers
@@jacobpadilla9256I am uniquely not playing the game in the first 10 minutes for the last 2 years. Qiyana is suchb a troll pick in every role I get reported in champ select for picking her.
xPetu 🗿
I don’t c what’s wrong with the boycotts… as a zed main the champ freaking sucks and riots balancing is objectively bad. They want every champ at 50% when some champs are much easier than others meaning difficult champs like zed have 0 upside other than being fun to master. Zed is weak rn and still has a high ban rate… who’s that fun for?
Necrit has finally found the endless goldmine of reddit, and I love that for him
I like to imagine that Mordekaiser, Zed and Shen mains are now sharing beers after seeing all changes in the 2024 season.
worst part with shen boycott is that they only fixed w bugs to make it work as intended but its still a coinflip wherever or not it will work as its intended