Alrighty let me pin the basics here. No matter what lubricant you are using, if you ride in the rain - post wet ride you can either just add more lubricant - which not do much at all to the crap the water brought in, or - recommended if practical - you can reset your chain. The more your drivetrain parts are worth, and the less you want to have them quickly worn - the more recommended resetting chain post wet ride. You pay the piper one of two ways - with a little time and effort to reset, or with friction and wear even if next ride is in the sun. Oil lubricants are A LOT more faff, mess and cost (and disposal) to reset than immersive waxing. If you are immersive waxing either; > Re wax chain. The chain cannot and will not rust if you put it in your wax pot and re coat it in wax. > If re wax is not practical, simply re apply a compatible wax drip lubricant (silca ss drip, ufo drip, Tru-Tension tungsten all weather). Almost always if chain is re lubricated - chain will not rust. > In more extreme cases (salted roads, rust prone chains - ie most shimano 12s chains) they still spot rust even if re wax drip lubricated - then - * Spray chain with isopropyl alcohol (or spray cloth and wipe chain) - wipe chain - this will remove surface minerals that are rust catalysts and also help displace water. Then re lubricate with compatible wax drip. This is the path of many an intrepid commuter on IM waxing, or avid cyclists hitting the winter miles frequently and between work and family etc - re waxing during the week just doesnt work for them. It takes 60 secs to alcohol spray, wipe and re lube chain - then on weekend - pop chain in wax pot to reset. This is still all VASTLY easier and less faff and mess than solvent flush cleaning a chain. So you can follow cade advice - go to oil, have a mess, have a devil of a time trying to keep lubricant from being liquid sandpaper, and likely just have to replace most of DT components at end of winter. Or you can IM wax + wax drip above - have a clean, low friction chain and drivetrain, and finish winter with everything going great and not needing replacement. Remember also a great tip for some is to run multiple chains on rotation. Not only can it be easier to just pop one chain off post wet ride and pop into pot, and pop other chain thats ready to go on - but it GUARANTEE's multiple chains through your cassette vs potentially just one if you get caught out running one chain too long. If you have a $700 cassette and you ride a lot in harsh conditions, this can just be simple smart way to roll. Sooner or later you always need a new chain, so pre buying next chain to run two on rotation - there is no downside.
Agree 100% with your remarks about the poor advice given out by Cade Media on waxed chains in the winter. Obviously Mechanic Nic doesn't like to use wax, which is a bit of an adopted lifestyle. Cade media doesn't really cater to the crowd that is likely servicing their own bikes with the amount of dedication to detail that waxing requires so maybe it's best that they advise against using wax for their viewers, but it isn't a good reason to spread false information that is easily de-bunked. I appreciate that you called them out on this.
Here in Korea, we get heavy rain in summer, and winter is possibly more hostile with snow, ice, mud, and heavy applications of calcium chloride as road salt. Over 95% of bikes I see have rusted chains. Winter is coming, and I am looking forward to seeing how wax will perform.
I stopped watching Cade simply because of that ‘expert’ they keep using. Complete nonsense he speaks all the time. Embarrassing for them. I now only watch their tours e.g. India recently which are amusing.
So called "bike mechanic" Nic a an f-ing shill. He earns his money selling bike parts. Him especially giving regularly really bad advice on bike maintenance. It seems more reasonable to treat your own carbon bike with a chain saw than handing it to him.
As luck would have it, I did a 2 hour ride in the rain today, chain was silent and shifting as good as when I started the ride. It took me 10 mins to clean the bike with water and cloth and probably about 10 mins for the work needed on the chain to flush, wax and put on a new waxed chain. Just for fun, I checked the chain wear, which has had 1500km on it in all UK seasons. Using Pedro’s chain checker wear was, well, non existent on the clean but non waxed chain. No need for degreaser or other cleaning products and once the bike was clean my none gloved hands were spotless.
The one point someone made that I'm not sure is right or not re wax and water is the following: "Drip wax lubes have an emulsion agent in them to enable them to work at all. When a chain with drip wax gets exposed to water, it re-activates the emulsion agent and the wax becomes liquid and can be easily washed off the chain." I'd like this to be false but following that logic that would assume that the emulsifier would evaporate off, and the drip lubes I use don't smell like alcohol/acetone/etc so I'm not sure what to think. For reference, I have had pretty bad performance from some 'cleaner' wax drips (things like TTT will last through a lot more as they're a very high oil content)
no i am 99.999% certain that is false - they will not re emulsify, it takes a decent process to emulsify the wax initially, and once set, it is set. Some wax emulsion drips are very impressive re wet lifespan like smoove, ab graphenlube etc - others can be fairly short - but not due to re emulsifying, just the amount of wax and wax type and so how long that coating holds up against being abraded off.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Almost forgot, I did an experiment where I put various wax drips in foil cupcake tins, let them dry completely and then added water. Some stayed stuck to the bottom, others broke off in large chunks and floated to the top and others just melted into a milky mess, reminiscent of that video you did of UFO Wet. I can send photos if you're interested!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I can't deny this. I've seen it in real life with decathlon drip wax. I applied on the chain -> then wax hardens overnight -> 40 km bike ride -> bike wash Now all of a sudden a white semi liquid is all over the chain and chain ring. I'm using a Sonax profiline car shampoo that does not dissolve waxes btw. However after few hours the bike and chain was dry again, and there was no any visible evidence of the the white semi liquid fluid. On touch, the chain felt just as it was fresh waxed. No sound on the next 40km bike ride though. The Decathlon drip wax is rated for dry conditions only. So it might not be universal, but plausible with some drip waxes. I will wait for the rain, and check if the CeramicSpeed wet drip lube dues the same.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 are replies being deleted? I've had this a few times now. Synopsis of post that's not public - I've tested and found some wax drips dissolve in water once set, can show pics if needed....
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Testing, testing....that's two replies now that have disappeared. No dodgy keywords in this one, so let's see what happens....
I’m super happy with Silca Secret wax immersion, wipe downs and re-apply Silca drip wax, in between. Never had any issues and completely love my non-greasy chains. I can’t imagine ever using oil again.
And only thing riders have to do is just try waxing by themselves. Best method so far and a gamechanger compared to oils. It's been so easy since I swapped from oils to immersive waxing 5 years ago. And I do ride during winter when it's below freezing with snow and ice.
Hey! no i probably wouldnt go that path - if i did then i would feel bad if i was unable to get as many open tests through as the crowd might hope. ZFC can afford to build a fourth machine (it just literally takes circa 20k revenue to cover a 2k spend - net margins on selling lubricants and chains is..... not high -around 10%). It is partly i will struggle a bit for room, and also i need the time to run a 4th. Running 3 tests is very time consuming, running 4.... it will to a degree slow down the running of the other 3 as there is only so many work hours i have each day. But based on the test list battles with current 3 machines, a 4th may just have to come in to get open testing going to a much better rate again.
Moral of the story: don't take advice on components from someone who makes a living selling replacement components. also: Don't take advice on bike fit from someone who makes a living selling bike fits, expensive inner soles and overpriced cycling shoes etc , especially if that person doesn't blink and talks 100 words per minute but because he's clearly high AF on Adderall or coke in every video he appears in. I do like Francis though, seems like a decent human that loves riding bikes. On the subject my chain runs fine in / after rain with a home made paraffin/bees wax and graphite power mix, plus my legs and jeans have never been cleaner! half my saddle bag is starting to rust though, thanks Adam.
@zerofrictioncycling992 well firstly as we know getting all the prep done when starting out is time consuming but kinda fun, after using broom to break up wax fitted it and thought wow, this is kinda shit, went for a ride and after 2km it loosened off and man it was glorious. Smooth, quite and the shifting was so fast and effortless and im using DA8100 so that is saying something. So first stint did 3 chains all going well, couldnt believe how clean it stayed een after 400km, where I live is dry and dusty but still was incredible. Did the rewax once 3rd chain was on and so fourth. Noticed 3rd switching on cooker, by now was up to 8 waxed chains from Silca product the k's ridden before changing was dropping fast, going from 370-400k per chain to sounding and feeling ruff at 300k to this latest batch were barely hit 200k and sounded and felt like a raw chain. So then i sat down and thought about it. At this rate the amount of riding i do will see about 3 bags wax and many links, then their is the tine for cooker to heat up, removing chains, waxing and prepping reading to go. Also every 2nd chain cassette gets a build up of wax clumps so shifting in a gear with those lumps doesnt feel sharp so more time cleaning cassette. Where as before all this i have tried sooooo many drip lubes and since 2016 have stuck with Finish Line Wet and have no reason to not go back. Yeah it gets messy and requires a wipe of rim, spokes and chain every ride but that takes 2mins. Reapply about 300k-ish, wipe with rag as best i can, wipe between cassette, rings and jockey wheels before running metho soaked rag and few times around chain, all without removing. Doing this over the years on Tarmac with Ultegra 6800 mechanical had me getting 7500-8000k before .5 on measuring tool went all the way in all be it with some help, it had alot more life left. Over the course of 55000k the chainrings are still on and went through 3 casettes and maybe 6 chains, always great shifting and never an issue, not bad for a $16 bottle lube. With all the pissing around for me it is way too much wasted time and money for something as simple as cycling. I am very ocd with my gear and although at first the wax felt great in the long run i feel it is more time consuming and costly. In saying all that i will still wax mtb chain as thatnis where it works best, and the amount of mtb riding i get done at waxed chain will last atleast 1 year!!!!
I watched cade media for a while , then one day i thought to myself "hang on,this is utter sh*te". I'm embarrassed i took a while and didn't see it sooner.
I've found rusting having to do as much with the chain than the lube. Some chains seem to rust if you barely breathe on them. Others seem to be fine even if you ride in the ocean. Maybe the coating on the chain or the alloy?
I had a nice experience with immersion wax. I've switched about 10 of the family bikes over at this point. For my mountain bike in dry California conditions, I couldn't be more thrilled. The performance is off the charts. Dirty, dusty, totally abrasive really fine dust DOUSING the entire bike in the Sierra is of no consequence! Love it! Anyway, I had noticed over the last year or two that my city bike drive train was feeling a bit "crunchy." Despite doing my old regular routine of chain maintenance along with regular chain checking, something wasn't right. It's an old bike, but with a nice mix of XT, XTR and other boutique parts. Even so, I just assumed that I had finally worn my middle chainring out. But it was minor, so I didn't really address the issue. Switched that bike over to wax after degreasing the chain thoroughly. Boy was I surprised to discover a silky-smooth riding drive train. No more "crunchiness!" Wow, total bonus! A very nice surprise. (It's been three months since the switch - still running great on its initial wax with no follow up chain care whatsoever.)
Yeah there have been some lets say ..... interesting bits of advice over the times of seen the channel thats for sure. I could be wrong but to me it just seems like re chain lubrication and waxing, he speaks as an authority re the advice but simply has EXTREMELY low experience with waxing. He has either tried it but not done it correctly or he has simply not even properly tried it. It is possible once he has waxed, ridden in the rain, not simply re waxed or added wax lube to protect, come back to a rusting chain, called waxing crap and gone back to oil - or he has seen other cyclists do this, and based on that - called waxing crap. Considering how many people around the world in harsh winters in countries that have harsh winters have an easy grand ol time with IM waxing by simply doing the above - you would think by now he would just go ok - let me check how am i supposed to do waxing in wet / winter - oh its that easy - let me try that. Considering i ride in the wet muck in winter all the time and spend f all time on chain and DT maintenance and never have any rust, and same story repeated countless thousands of times around the world - if he is getting a different result (if he has even tried it) - surely then he should ponder what the difference could be? learn about that, then more experience, then be qualified somewhat to talk on the topic.
@ absolutely. Ive found that the people who say waxing is crap, haven’t done it correctly, usually because they don’t start with a thoroughly clean chain. I’ve been waxing my chains for a few years now, mainly because of watching your channel, and I’m based in the UK , which isn’t renowned for its warm, dry climate 😂 I won’t be going back to an oil based lube anytime soon!
@@stevenrose3352 whilst i hope that thought is not too widespread with LBS, i do know for a fact that is exactly the thought with some. There is a major store in adelaide that at one time ensured they avoided top products like mspeedwax, choosing others like wend wax instead (as well as muc-off, finish line and white lightning for an all round murderous selection opportunity for their customers). Upon chatting to them the manager did say, i kid you not, that putting their business hats on it would be silly to stock products like Mspeedwax. Sigh......
Waxing seems pretty simple to me. I just bought a pre-prepped chain and got straight into it as it didn't cost much more and saved me having to buy the stripper. I don't see what the big deal is doing it this way as I pay others to do things for me (make food, alter my clothes, drive me places at times). So Adam is just another person providing a service. I don't need to go out in the wet much, so am happy with my current wax, drip, drip, drip, wax.
It does. Consider place the chain back in the bike just after it cooled down. Just as it's getting hard but not when it's hot. This helps pushing the wax out a bit and make things smoother from the start. This is only needed when we'll below 0c.
One problem is that at low temperatures wax becomes more and more brittle and - to my experience doesn't last as long as in summer. The more important problem is that once a part of the wax is gone the bare metal surface will be wet by water and that the water will freeze in your chain. Oil will still form a film under these conditions. Another point to consider is that in winter you have a lot of salt in the water (if you are riding on/close to a road) which will promote corrosion of your chain. Thus, personally, I disagree with Adam and cannot recommend wax in a real winter (= freezing temperatures, ice, snow and salt).
Squirt has a wax variant which is intended to use in cold environment. It should not freeze in its container, I guess because the solvent is water, but when it dries out you can use it in freezing temperatures
Great explanations and advice. Cade media so called expert gives the impression he gets his info from hear say in his back street workshop and not actually research or experience. He is great at selling replacement chains and cassettes 🤔😡 I am at the point that I need lubrication when he starts speaking.
AFAIK the friction studies on waxing are done within a few hrs of treatment Any studies done in the real world or after a long ide in not so great conditions?
The ceramic speed testing protocol is over 13 hours - so its a decent test, and there has been some testing done of chains post races / events but typically this data is sporadic and not open (nor is it for any other lubricant type). There should be / needs to be more of this done, aside from it being more investment in time, logistics and faff, i dont know why more of this hasnt been done and published - and it is something i will be discussing with those that have the ability to do so like ceramic speed and silca. From ZFC testing however, the fact that the wear rates remain so low in harsh conditions over long test intervals and blocks is a very good sign.
I wax all my bikes apart from one (I have 5) The only one I don’t wax is my commuter bike. I ride my commuter bike 300miles a month in all UK weathers. Out of my extensive experience using immersive wax is, whatever I do, it’s difficult to stop the chain on my commuter bike from getting rust. The only way I’ve found to stop this is use bike chain oil. So I’ve been using silca wax at the moment and I love using wax but I agree using wax in foul cold wet weather at this time of year won’t stop the chain from getting rust spots.
My experience from 1.5 years of immersion waxing chains on my commuter bike, riding in all conditions and in the European Alps sometimes in snow/snow-slush: I really enjoy the performance and cleanliness of my bike, but if I ride home in strong rain, or through snow-slush (and salt!) I cannot leave my waxed chain on the bike. The chain needs to go into the pot when I get home after work on such days, or I will get some rust, even if I wipe the chain dry, I think the main reason is that I don't manage to get the entire bike dry, and it will continue to accumulate water e.g. at the pully wheels where the chain will get rust spots). In this regard the wax is worse than oil, it demands the attention after harsh wet rides. It took me a while to learn this, but overall I feel that the immersion wax is still a great deal overall, even in winter. As pointed out in the video, putting your chain into the pot is not very time-consuming, and has the really nice benefit of clearing out the certainly present contaminants brought in after such rides. And I would say that even in winter I only get such harsh or really wet conditions once or twice per week on average.
@ after a long day at work my bike is getting left. No way I’m removing chains, swapping chains or putting in my immersive wax. The other bikes I have time for, but my everyday commuter, waxing is way too much work every single day, it’s too much. You would have to do this everyday to stop I The chain rusting. Who has time in our busy lives to do this?
@@bikepackingadventure7913 Putting the chain in the pot directly after work is surely a small hassle - but I only do it if it was really raining *hard*, or when riding through snow-slush. This doesn't happen all that often, definitively not every day! And if it was just a small drizzle, then wiping the chain with a micro-fiber cloth is sufficient in my experience (maybe also top it off with drop wax like suggested in the video). My assumption is that in the long run you save time with this routine, as replacing/repairing components costs time (and money), and also when you need to clean your bike, you save a lot of time with a waxed chain. Not to mention the bike just rides better throughout... but, I don't want to tell you what to do, if your oil based commuter works for you, then that is what is important.
@@bikepackingadventure7913 hey! did you not see the part about if doing a re wax post wet is not practical; > Wipe chain > re apply compatible wax lube to protect and re lube until you can next re wax (ie weekend). This is the normal path for intrepid waxing commuters
@@joules2936 Nero is up there with that as well sometimes. Again I think it's mainly Nick. Francis and especially Emily are great. Jimmi has some whack oppinions and Nick is straight up delusional.
That's maybe a bit harsh. Nick is just wrong about chain waxing... don't see much else. Proof me wrong, what have I missed, that they are badly wrong about?
yeah i do have a go pro but have not bothered using for ages - pilfered the SD card for my sons DJ camera and never got around to replacing it! But yesterday would have been a good one, tough course for the states - across people practicing in the lead up plus race day there have been quite a high number of injuries- some sections for sure a bit exciting when you have to navigate them at the best speed you dare - mind you it always looks waaaaayyyyy tamer on video so ive rarely strapped the go pro on. Thankfully i survived practice and the race ok and managed to get the win for master 5 yesterday woohoo! aside I've missed a couple years state xco from crash injuries but the 5 or 6 years ive raced them ive been 2nd or 3rd everytime so its nice to finally go the one step higher!
Yay! I As recent convert to no more sh*t all over me and my drivetrain, I've done a couple of old ones via drip wax. I did notice the outer plates got rusty as I focused on the rollers...fixed by remebering to coat the outer plates as well nextime. Runs like a dream though!
I use a car polish spray wax (just water/Isopropanol/wax) to protect the cassette (and essentially the entire bike) from corrosion. Spray on and forget (or polish the parts of the bike that are accessible for your microfiber towel). As a very quick no-time protection of the chain, I spray on the car-polish on a microfiber cloth and let the chain run though it directly after the wet ride. This takes off excess water and puts on a superficial lay of wax on the outside of the chain. I use this if I have not exceeded the run-time of the last wax application, so if I just made a wet ride on a rather freshly waxed chain.
In order to speed up testing couldn't you split a chain into two or more pieces and treat the separately, then join the pieces back together to put through testing. As long as you mark which piece of chain was treated with which lubricant?
Alas that would be often a bit problematic, and could increase variables. For many drip lubricants there would be cross contamination issues, so it could only be for immersive waxes - but even then general observations are important as well - how flakey / messy - how does the chain sound towards the end of wet contamination intervals (some will be sounding obviously dry and so likely nearing end of treatment lifespan, others sounding fine and dandy). Mixing two product tests together would bring a host of issues sadly :(
Any advice for a daily commuter as I have found my chain spot rusting in the time between locking it up in the bike shed after a wet ride in to the office because I can’t dry it before leaving it for 8 to 10 hours? I love the immersive waxing for how clean my clothes are now compared to oil
yes as per below - if you are having a rust issue whilst at work - pack a cloth and yr bottle of wax lube - take a literal 30 secs to wipe chain and whack on some wax drip to protect.
The Cade media chap is the typical type of bike shop mechanic that thinks he knows it all, talks woith confidence and is not at all qualified...avoid, I stopped watching them in part because of this.
A bunch of "Ride Mechanic" products yet to be covered . A new set of Weldtite ones . Adam will never keep up with the "snowball" of new products coming out .
Ride mechanic is a bit of an interesting story. They almost booked in for a test a long time ago but in the end didnt go ahead. Then a little bit later came back and wanted me to stock products - without me testing, and they didnt have any of their own data to share to back product performance either - and got pretty angry with me that i would simply stock and recommend, based on nada - which i was rather perplexed and disappointed by as it clearly goes against the openly stated ZFC model. So things were left there, and as Ride Mechanic doesnt have big global distribution, they just have a much lower overall interest globally re test requests than products that are available across the world. Being an aussie company over the years i have chatted to many local racers - especially in mtb scene - using Ride mechanic, and their experience seems similar to those using say squirt or smoove - some really happy, some found things gunk up quickly (but like with squirt or smoove - it is possible they are not using correctly - ie over applying too much, too often). So until / if i test - i wont know if their products are great, meh, not so great. I hope the former of course. But yeah until i maybe get a 4th machine, and their product is requested for testing more than many other products - it isnt looking that likely i will get to test anytime soon if they dont book in.
Wax is crap in winter and I'm a serial waxer - because chains rust SO FAST. Sure it can be avoided with some serious attention, but in winter I strongly recommend using cheap parts that can wear fast and a good wet lube with excess wiped off. I hate these neggy comments about the opinions on other youtube videos - they might be technically wrong, but they're not wrong for 99% of people who want simple advice that works most the time. I'm unsubscribing from this channel. ZFC used to be a great resource but now it's just cringe.
James if you had rusting so fast - simply you weren't following the simple advice given in this vid. Ie - if you re wax your chain post wet ride, how does it rust? if you cant re wax but instead add a coating of wax lube, how does it rust? It has been covered in the past with waxing and wet that you cannot just ride and then park bike and leave it, but just do some very small things to protect. Literally countless waxing customers around the world (mine, msw, silca etc) wax through winter in countries that have harsh winters, salted roads etc and have a grand time. So it might be worth pondering why they have that experience and you had yours. Again i assure you, if you pop the chain back into the wax pot, it aint rusting.... I correct thoroughly because in the case of drivetrain the "people who want simple advice" - in this case if following Nick's advice could well be up for a lot of money at the end of winter for new drivetrain components vs having a drivetrain thats still amazing. That is why i am always passionate to try to ensure the best, and correct information in this space, and i work to correct information that is simply very incorrect especially when it will be seen by hundreds of thousands of people. Who knows how many Nick has now cost a lot of $$$ by following his "advice" from a mechanic. Thousands of cyclists possibly at least. I am sorry but i genuinely take exception to thousands of cyclists going out and now ruining their lovely drivetrains vs taking great care of them in a manner that is so easy to do with just a little bit of actual knowledge - like so many now around the world through harsh winters do. If you take exception to my working hard on these efforts - by all means - go elsewhere for information in this area of cycling.
@zerofrictioncycling992 for a starter I go for a coffee at the end of my ride, and then the bike goes in the van for the drive home. That's enough for rust already. Are you seriously suggesting good advice for the majority of cyclists (and cade media don't target the high performance end of the spectrum) is to go and immediately clean and then rewax their chain? Come on man. This comments section is an echo chamber of the worst kind.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 In the UK, it's wet, filthy wet and muddy this time of the year. I wash my chain at the end of a ride - there is absolutely no wax left. I then add some wax lube (a good one you recommend, and as per instructions)) but I get rust on the plates overnight - everytime and no matter how well I dry the chain.
It is true that waxing your chain requires a little bit of extra attention/work after wet conditions ride, such as strong rain. In my experience, if my bike is not completely soaked, e.g. if I rode only through light rain, then wiping down the chain with a micro fiber cloth after the ride (that I keep in a bag on the bike), is sufficient - the video also recommends reapplying some drip-wax. If on the other hand your bike is very wet, then wiping the chain is not sufficient, as water will continue to accumulate at the bottom of the casette and the pully wheels, after you have dried the chain. In this scenario, I just take the chain off, and either throw it in the wax pot immediately if time permits, or just wrap it up in a dry towel and put it aside for re-waxing at a later point. I recommend to not put the new chain on immediately, but to leave the bike to dry over night, and when you do your next ride, take the extra minute to install a fresh chain. If your bike is drenched, but you are not at home where you have the tools to take the chain off, e.g. when you get wet when commuting to work, I just wipe down the chain with the microfiber cloth when I arrive - even a long day of work is not going to cause much rust in such a short time span. At worst you might get a tiny bit of surface rust, which doesn't look pretty but is not damaging the chain - you can wipe it off and the re-waxing treatment in the evening will get the chain back into excellent shape.
All my bikes (8 no) are waxed (3 years now), nothing to do with speed, just because I had some time convalescing and aldi had a cheap crockpot! Not sure if the effort trying to stop rust after most UK rides is worth it. For my time and product costs I could put a new chain on every four rides for the same money. It seems I'm spending £100's to make a £30 chain last an extra 500k.
Hey edmund! ah most it really isnt spending much to go IM waxing. A pot, and some wax. In general a bag of wax will last at least 10,000km in dry riding, or around 5000km of mixed / harsh conditions - many people spend more than that or a lot more than that over the same kms for their chosen drip lubricant as they may use 2 to 4 bottles or more depending on what it is. Plus wear rates. Plus any maintenance costs. It is not uncommon in UK and similar - even if one is not worried about chain and DT parts costs as 8spd or 10spd tiagra etc - but they hate the black mess - is they buy a cheap pot, they buy a couple kg of paraffin wax for F all vs a fancy commercial wax, they buy 3 cheap chains to run on rotation - throwing on a wax drip post any wet ride ready for the next day - and just re wax all three chains at once, or pop one in post wet ride so its protected and pop another ready to go on. Multiple chains is also heavily favored by those with expensive bits, as ensuring your get 2 or 3 chains through a $700 sram red cassette vs potentially just one chain has a lot of appeal, as well as greatly minimizing wear to $2k integrated power meter chain rings!
Hey Adam, a question I am constantly thinking about: Would you still recommend Wax based Lubricants for long term bicycle travelling - like crossing continents for months and months on the road and experiencing ALL type of weather? Hot melt difficult - Drip Wax maybe🥴 Thanks a lot for your comment…
Ah things like that it gets difficult for sure. It is typically always great to start waxed still, but then i would move to something like Smoove if it was lot of offroad - Smoove is very long lasting and holds up well in a lot of conditions, or synergetic, synerg-E, rex black diamond if road as again they are very long lasting per treatment. Over time there is going to be no way to stop the "lubricant" running in the chain from becoming abrasive, especially as soon as caught in a wet ride - things will just never be the same. Depending on how far one is riding, and what they want the drivetrain to be going like, options such as; Ever X check point (major town) - duck to a bike store and get them to do a quick solvent reset blast of chain and re lube with your lube, or - depending on chain running (ie if not too expensive) - At x point get a fresh chain on, get LBS to blast out the factory grease and put your chosen lube on. If its big road trip and get luck with conditions a top lubricant even with little to no maintenance will still be great after 2 or 3k km. Or if conditions harsh you could quickly be riding a chain thats gone from 5w loss to 10w + loss and so every pedal stroke 5w of energy is going into wearing through your chain. If i couldnt effectively reset - for my own riding pleasure, at some point i would just go fresh...
Adam, I’m curious as to the surface finish of various chains both by manufacturer and group level. Immersive waxing is great IMO however the quality of surface treatment/micro finish and it’s ability to hold a lubricant longer should come into play ie micro finish of internal combustion engine cylinders. If too smooth lubricants will be quickly displaced, too rough and excess wear. Have you taken this into account? Would love to see info on this to which manufacturers offer the best value.
yes great point - alas mostly no we dont have the ability to objectively see this, but we do know from experience some chains / brands lubricant treatment lifespans appear clearly lesser than others - however what part chain metal and what part their other treatments such as low friction coating used - we cant be sure. Typically shimano seem to have lesser lifespan (ie waxers find treatments feel and sound drier more quickly - we think due to siltec treatment) and most reported is KMC chains which can feel / sound dry really quickly for some. Most other brands wax lifespan is very groovy.
@ thx for the response. As an addendum to my question, I get excellent mileage from both my waxed Ultegra and KMC chains (2 different bikes) however side plate wear seems advanced on the Ultegra (likely due to a softer side plate metal?) affecting shifting some before the chain wear guagechecks no go. Your research is valued. Thanks.
@@awesomexistence it is generally rare for lateral wear and thus too much side flex - to reach the point where it affects shifting before chain reaches recommended elongation wear. Generally the only cases where this occurs are when a) chain is taken well past 0.5 wear so lateral wear can reach a point where - along with now worn cogs and pulleys - shifting is affected or b) Cyclist spends a lot of their cycling time on high chain line angles - especially in mtb / gravel where abrasive dust is involved. The parts are not softer. The rollers are hardened, the link plates are very high quality hard wearing steel etc. On straighter chain line angles, there is very little load on side of roller to inner link plate, inner link plate to outer link plate etc, and so very very low wear rate vs main load surfaces that cause elongation wear. these surfaces are progressively loaded up more on high chain line angles, but again will still only be taking a small fraction of the load vs main load surfaces that are taking the bulk of your pedalling force to propel you forwards. hence why generally it is difficult to cause sufficient lateral wear in a chain by the time it reaches recommended 0.5% elongation wear mark. It happens, but its rare. If you are not in either of the above categories, i would investigate other aspects that might be causing less than awesome shifting. Chain length correct? B-tension Correct? Pulleys not worn? Indexing correct? chain installed correct way (shimano chains are directional - writing must face out or shifting is decently affected as they are only chamfered on one side for shifting) etc etc.
I've been immersive waxing for close to 3 years now. I'm up to eight 12 speed chains and five 11 speed chains (riding 12sp almost exclusively) so I can go ~6 weeks between waxings. Do I need to eventually dump the wax at a point because of contamination? 98% of my riding is in dry conditions and I've just been adding to the wax in my cheap ultrasonic cleaner. I usually wipe the chains off but sometimes just drop them in the Molten Speed Wax. I've dropped my wax interval under 300km in most instances since it is so easy.
I would say no..youre introducing so little dirt into the pot...and youre adding fresh wax sometimes..i cant see it affecting lifespan where you would notice
Hey psb - yes overtime the wax will become more and more contaminated. You are going to be bringing very little contamination in each re wax, but it does add up over many re waxings and many thousands of kms. Overtime the wax treatment lifespan will reduce, and the wear rates increase etc. General rule of thumb for dry road riding is to replace to fresh wax approx every 10,000 to 15,000km - which is a long time, and makes wax lubricant cost much lower than the majority of drip lubricants for the same distance, before factoring in wear rate savings. Frequent harsh conditions riding one should replace sooner depending on how often, how harsh etc. Most do start to notice wax treatments not lasting like they used to, or simply when fill level is getting low and time for a fresh lot - thats a good time to melt, decant out, wipe pot clean, fresh wax in.
I know!!! I want more chain tests too! but far out, that is all on the back burner atm as the lubricant testing is just taking all resources and then some. However...... we know enough (and we have ceramic speed data for efficiency on a number of chains) - that it is highly likely the red e1 will be MUCH longer lasting than the ybn due to their unbeatable longevity of HARDCHROME, but it will be notably slower. So the general advice on those wont change from before - train on sram, race on YBN - the YBN flat top was blindingly fast in CS testing - one of the fastest chains tested. Sram chains to date have never, ever been fast.
@@SamuelBlackMetalRider Its not updated on the chain efficiency chart yet - just know though that its a 10/10 for efficiency :). Hoping to stock soon, been a bit of delay getting them.
@@SamuelBlackMetalRider not yet - i havent updated this one on the chain test chart just yet but i will do soon (when i can actually get stock! - and it will have to be estimated wear life as i havent had a chance to test. But yeah, its fast! :))
So Adam I asked a few times. I did a cyclocross race last week and with in 1 lap the bike ,chain , and me was covered in thick mud. Knowing weather conditions I had already de greased chain. Added my super secret chain lube 2 coats 12 hrs apart and allowed to dry for 24hrs. I have also been using tru tension all weather lube for drier races or not mudders. What would u recommend is best out of these lubes for cx racing. I power wash bike after every race then chain removed into heavy degreaser so it’s spotless when put back on to race. See other racers using 3in1 oil and the famous wd40 before start. Would these oil cope with harsh treatments if only for 1hr race?
Hey Adam! Ooooh full mudder cx races are one of the most extreme lubricant challenges!! WD40 will be friggin terrible hahaha - poor cyclists and chains using that option. 3 in 1 will also be very bad. Anything light like those - the majority of the product will be quickly washed out and just a very thin film remaining, that will then be attacked by the abrasive mud the water is dragging in - and very quickly what one will be using as lubricant is just water and mud. This is easily verified by good chain wear checking before and after - i have seen chain wear of 0.2% pre and post ONE CX RACE with some chains when i did some fun testing on this some seasons ago, and likely it was higher if i could have cleaned their chains pre measure as mud and crap would have been giving a low reading. But - people CAN assess their chosen lubricants performance in such conditions by accurately seeing how they hold up by doing accurate wear checking with a digital caliber etc. For you - out of ss drip and TTAW for such riding, i would go TTAW. However if you were going to be resetting chain anyway (and if you are not immersive waxing) - i would use Smoove - that is really high performing and hangs on really well . It is a bit of a tough clean - but its strength is that it is so hard to get off the chain - it stays there really well. For a full mudder race you will still want to double coat and follow the advanced application instructions thoroughly to negate as best you can any penetration issues. But based on that...... honestly for such racing - an IM wax chain really is so much easier. The top IM waxes have great longevity as they are a solid coating of 100% lubricant, no penetration issues, no double coating, and VASTLY easier to reset post event - boiling water flush rinses, dry, re wax - boom ready for next race. But yep, if not IM waxing - for normal CX events SS drip, UFO, TTAW - all great as they are easy to apply, easy to reset. If expecting the event to be a full mudder - double heavy coating of smoove (or immersive is best - pop the nozzle out of bottle, pour into a small clip lock container with chain swish around, flip chain over and repeat ensure all of chain has been fully submerged whilst swishing (honestly easier with 2 bottles...smoove is pretty cheap overall) - remove and hang chain to set and wipe excess from outside, and then use a small funnel to pour back into bottles and put nozzles back in (again... IM waxing is easier.....but an immersive smoove application is AWESOME for long and or harsh conditions events).
To be honest, it took a while to get my head around wax in wet/winter, not that summers are dry here. The fact that there seems to be a steep drop off in wax not performing that is noticeable is the thing that made me question it before. Mainly what if the reapplication mark is mid work day suddenly (use wax on a bike i use for courier job). Maybe with wet lubes the drop off is a little less steep, but just not as noticeable. For me the thing i now learned is to really count the kilometers using an app and strava data, to really prevent that sharp falloff to happen mid workday and having to finish the day grinding away a dry chain. Mixed conditions is still tough though. Freshly reset chain, I tend to not drip or immerse after just a 70 km or so wet day, just wipe the chain dry. But have gotten some rust the next morning a few times doing that, especially when coming home in a shower so the chain didn't get to air dry much. So I'll rethink that now.
Water is heavier than wax and may pool in your hot pot. Your wax shouldn't be at 100C, so you'll be below the boiling point of water. So the water may not escape the wax. Either way, probably better to take the extra few minutes to start with a dry chain. I put mine in the sun after blowing it off with compressed air. If not an option for you, then toss it in the toaster oven on low. Your wife or housemate will LOVE it!!!
I place the chain wet on top of the wax while the wax is still cold. I turn the wax on and walk away. I expect that the chain is dry by the time it's in the melted wax. Life is too short to lose time with drying your chain.
I don't use a boiling water rinse, I just scrub the chain through a dry microfibre cloth to remove the dirty surface wax. Run the chain through the cloth in both directions, then wax as normal.
The chain just bubbles for a while for me as the water tries to escape. I will definitely switch to the double bowl methot, as I had enough of dry the chain as much and fast as possible.
After a wet ride i dry my chain with micro fibre and hair dryer then give it a alcohol spray wipe and top up with super secret will do this a few times before a rewax. Doing this i have had no issues with rust, my question is how much chain life am i sacrificing by not doing a rewax and flushing any grit that has entered in the wet ride?
Thats an impossible question for anyone to answer - ie how dirty are the roads (amount of crap, type of crap and how abrasive that is), your avg power etc etc. The best thing would be to track chain wear closely, as well as how many kms to 0.5 or near 0.5% wear. Then you can start to gauge how thats working. Just the golden rule is to reset always post wet ride if practical to do so. Sometimes (rarely) on my workhorse mtb that i use for most winter training - i finish a ride and then its quick shower and dashing off to mini me sport and then we have one of his friends bday parties and then we have a dinner catch up and im riding it the next day. So worst case when i get back i just wipe chain dry, whack on some wax lube - takes me probs 30 secs. its protected from rust and it will be ok next day. But the workhorse bike has a GX cassette and chain cost is not too terrible. on my good mtb - the chain is $250 and the cassette is $1100. That chain is being whipped into the wax pot no matter what minimum - i will find the extra few mins to do that. But if i was on oil..... and had done wet ride on my good stuff.... fark the job is harder to get that reset so im not running grinding paste. The best way to always relate whats happening is to think what if i had no seals on my wheel and bb bearings. Post this ride would they be ok or would they be running with damaging shite in them if i dont reset them and just throw a bit more lube at them. but remember for your chain it is doing so much more work, under much more load, and much more exposed - so whatever the worry for your bearings if they had no seals, 10x that for you chain wear.
You need to speak to Josh at Silca. He’s just put out a video suggesting that you tip a third of a bottle of Silca oil into your wax pot to stop your chain going rusty 😂! How to convert your expensive wax AND oil into a grinding paste. It’s even more bonkers than Nick at Cade media.
@ Just name-dropping unless he shares the details of testing protocols etc. Visma have full time mechanics and don’t pay for their drive trains when they wear out.
How so? What specifically is your counter point? Why would 20ml of grade 5 synthetic oil into a top wax turn that wax into a grinding paste? Its level of contamination pick up will be higher than not having that in the wax, but still a different league lower than running oil / wet lube, AND when you re wax you reset brilliantly without faffing with solvents and degreasers. So what is behind your point you are stating as fact that it will turn the wax into a grinding paste? Have you tested this already and have wear data to go against Josh's test data and field testing? Or are you again just throwing baseless shite around? If you wish to counter a point - it is normal to do so basing your counter point on actual information to the same / similar level as what has been presented to you. If you cannot do this, you do not have a counter point. You perhaps have a question. It would be valid for you to have asked - Would adding synergetic to my wax turn it into a grinding paste? I would have answered with the information josh has presented, as well as the information i just presented above. But instead, as is your style - you make a statement - IT WILL TURN WAX into a grinding paste - and you have absolutely nothing to base that statement on. Please stop acting like this. If you havent figured it out, all you are doing is showing you have a baseless bias against. Mostly people will see a comment from you and instantly know it is going to be more baseless rubbish. Why as grown adult would you want this. Why wouldn't you want to be able to have an intelligent discussion with people where your input and information is respected. You are in control of making that happen. If you wish to counter any specific point - do so based on actual information. If not , then raise that point as a question - not a statement of fact based on nothing, as that is i am sorry to say, simply a way to make yourself look silly -because doing such is frankly dumb. Dont be dumb if you are not dumb. Be against waxing, be against ZFC information, be against silca information - all groovy if you base that on something ACTUAL - not this crap coming in so far. Pls raise your level if you want to remain commenting on ZFC. I give a lot of leeway, but there will come a point where if someone continually just throws shite around every time - their comments will be hidden - ZFC channel is not to be a cesspool of shite in the comments section, but a place for genuine questions and input. There are plenty of other channels out there if all you like to do is take the equivalent of a dump from your keyboard.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 1. The reason I suggested that adding oil to wax will turn it into a grinding paste is because, in Josh’s own words “the downside obviously of adding oil to this is the softening of the wax dirt will stick a little bit better”. What happens when you add dirt to your drivetrain lubricant? It becomes a grinding paste, as you have said yourself hundreds of times. How damaging that is, with (at one extreme) solid wax and (at the other) oil or factory grease, is only a question of degree and how far you ride on it. Josh’s “hack” is somewhere in between, but nearer the solid wax end. 2. We can agree that, after heavy rain you should wipe/rinse off the water and dirt and rewax. But what happens then if you don’t ride in the rain for a while? You’ll probably carry on cycling with your new (winter) wax plus oil mix, picking up more and more dirt that gets ground into the chain. I agree that one ride with a slightly sticky chain in the rain won’t do much damage, but what about 250km on an increasingly dirty chain (compared with a solid wax reset)? Do you see the problem? 3. Josh said “it's still way better than just a pure wet lube or even some of the products out there on the market you think of like a Squirt or a Smoove um you know those products are in the 20 to 30% oil you're probably here adding something more like you know 3 to 5% oil so it is tackier than pure hot wax”. 4. You asked me “Have you tested this already and have wear data to go against Josh's test data and field testing? ….. If you wish to counter a point - it is normal to do so basing your counter point on actual information to the same / similar level as what has been presented to you. If you cannot do this, you do not have a counter point”. 5. No. I haven’t tested it, but where is Josh’s test data and field testing data? Have you seen it? Where does he get the information that Squirt and Smoove are 20 to 30% oil? You criticise others for not publishing their test protocols and test data. Why not in this case? If GCN or Cade media had come up with this “hack”, I suspect you’d have been a bit more sceptical. 6. You then say “Please stop acting like this. If you havent figured it out, all you are doing is showing you have a baseless bias against.” Baseless bias against what? 7. You continue “Mostly people will see a comment from you and instantly know it is going to be more baseless rubbish”. I think you are muddling me up with someone else. The only comments I have made on your channel are pro waxing and defending you against Hambini’s and Durian’s attacks on you. How/where did you form this idea of me? 8. There then follows a 200 word rant against me, suggesting that I am “against ZFC information”, concluding with the words “There are plenty of other channels out there if all you like to do is take the equivalent of a dump from your keyboard”. I like your channel. I have five bikes, all with immersive wax drive trains. I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Goodness me, I just made some critical comments about Silca’s video and you react like this?
@@infocuslearning Infocus even just the start of your reply - honestly what is going on - cannot you not see just the basic argument logic fails. Yes josh says dirt will stick a little better. But the baseline comparison is the normal immersive wax - for which dirt sticks barely at all. So sticking a little better from a baseline of barely at all is hardly going to equal grinding paste. And with just a moments thought you would know this, obviously. As if IM wax with a bit of synergetic is going to act like a wet lube etc. And yet from this you launch your previous comment attack, and start rebuttal on this one. How can we have any level of intelligent discussion when you are acting like this? Re point 2 - remember the comparison for IM waxing is vs drip lubes. So if the synergetic + wax picks up a little more dirt in normal riding - you are still resetting chain contamination extremely well every re wax as you are putting the chain in hundreds of ml of lubricant every re lube. Vs putting circa 3 to 5ml on a chain over 100 links long, so around 0.03 to 0.05ml of new lube going on top of old contaminated lubricant. This is one of the biggest reasons why IM waxing wins all the time re lowest wear as it easily keeps the lubricant on the chain lower friction. Again a more rapid increase in contamination in the wax from extremely low to something a little higher than extremely low does not suddenly mean it is now highly abrasive, or anything like what happens to those using drip lube only. Re 3 - i dont get what point you are trying to make Re 4 - Again, what point are you trying to make. YOU made a STATEMENT that the wax with synergetic would be grinding paste - based on nothing - not your own riding, and certainly not logic. It is YOUR statement, YOU are the one that should be backing it. I can counter it with simple logic. Again you are just lost here in your thinking Re 5 - I am not sure if josh has his own control test data around increased contamination. It looks like the focus of the testing thus far has been around increased longevity in wet conditions - and yes it will be good to get some data on this as i am not sure when i can fit this testing in. For contamination gathering increase vs baseline - its difficult, you need a good contamination addition protocol for a start, and then long term testing. I dont think they have tests that go for thousands of kms per test like ZFC as it is extremely time consuming. So there are times where they can go ok we see an increase in longevity in wet conditions, but as the wax now has oil in it, it will pick up more dirt vs wax sans oil in it. Squirt and smoove are fairly well known and tested by competitors like silca and others as they are good competitors in the space, and the wax base relatively well known and analyzed. I expect the full test protocol with purdue will be out in due time. I know a fair bit about it from discussion with josh, hence i am not concerned about the lack of open publishing of it at this time - it is all part of PHD thesis, so it is private until post his doctorate as it is his thesis and testing that he is working with Silca. No i would not have been sceptical of cade with any hack / tip like this. Why would i be? I am not carte blanche against cade. I am carte blanch about bad information in this space, especially when it is pumped out based on no actual knowledge or experience. Considering i take the time to properly explain each and every point i counter on anything or anyone - you should know by now that i counter or promote any information point on its merits, and this enables people to also counter any of my information specifically as well. Something i wish you would actually do. Re 6, 7 , 8 - I thought you have been you have a baseless bias against ZFC / me / anything and everything i say or do and that this has been going on for a bit now. However if i have your comment name confused with someone else i will apologize profusely - i deal with a lot of comments, and i have a number of serial attackers like controversial cyclist, illegal immigrant etc etc. I will try to find a way to load up your comments and check - but if i have you confused with another ID with this - my apologies are very deep and sincere. So it is in that context that i come down hard on "critical comments on silca video" - if they are just (and i am sorry - but just mocking silca information based on your own thoughts that adding some synergetic will turn HM wax to a grinding paste......) - it very much fit the profile of one of the serial attackers mocking all good information in the waxing and chain lubrication space based on illogical BS. Such people work against good dialogue, discussion, debate and good information. Again - if you had a concern, then you should have phrased that as a question "Hey adam i am concerned, wouldnt adding some oil to wax cause X", and then i would answer accordingly, and if you wish you could raise further concern if the answer didnt sit right and why it doesnt sit right etc. Your statement came across as an attack - as in obviously doing this tip by silca is ridiculous, its going to be a griding paste, and mocking it. I feel strongly you should not do such unless you have the backing for your statement, if not - you should raise it as a question and concern.
Sort of...... i have adjustable dumbells and barbells and kettle bells and chin up bar and few other things - as i age i have been upping the strength work to maintain muscle mass, strength and bone strength (especially as a mtb rider / racer im always going to be eating dirt / rocks sooner or later). I should have taken measurements - im not aiming to put on more muscle just maintain, but some tops dont really fit any more.... but maybe that is also the extra snacking i like to do as well! :)
@@saracen888 Ha, i like it! Yeah i shld get another Dex scan.... last one was ages ago.... but probs an annual tracking of muscle, fat and bone density not a bad thing to ensure doing the right stuff to stay a little robust now im in my 50's..... Good field in master 5 this year despite some scratchings but Masters 6 had two entries, masters 7 had one etc - it seems there is a point it gets difficult to race mtb - need to stave that off. There are two guys in m8 who are AMAZING - showing that it absolutely can be done, so i want to be like them when i grow up :)
Do you guys keep the wax pot on all the time? The reason I ask is that it takes a few hours to liquify in my crockpot and I'm hearing here that it's taking 10 minutes to reset chains
My slow cooker is on only when needed. My wax takes about 2 hours to melt. The 10 minutes will be the time taken handling a chain. This includes taking it off the bike / threading onto the swishing tool , turning on the pot / re-waxing , hanging up to drip / letting the wax set , breaking the wax / chain link bonds and re-installing on the bike. It helps to re-wax multiple chains in one waxing session. To avoid hot wax dripping in unintended places it's best to re-wax them one at a time , especially if your using a small pot e.g. 1.5 Litre capacity.
its about 10 mins actual labour time if doing a boiling water reset post a harsh wet ride, otherwise its about 3 to 4 mins labour time. Same as washing machine, you can do other fun stuff whilst wax is melting. A few hours is pretty long, i think some slow cookers on low are really slow, it may be worth trying it on high, and set a time to check it after 45 mins etc as its possible if left for hours on high it could get too hot. Normally for me doing a re wax - i get back from a ride, pop chain off, onto swisher, into pot - turn pot on. Go have shower, eat lunch or a snack & a cuppa - pop stuff in the wash - give the bike a quick wipe down, and typically by around then the chain is ready to be swished and hang to set, and boom after that its just popping back on before next ride. I genuinely dont know any faster or labour time easier method than IM waxing like this to have an always clean low friction super low wear chain and drivetrain. All other options to try to remotely compete with the level of cleanliness and low wear of the above takes much longer, and typically has solvents to faff with and dispose of.
@dawn_rider Thank for the clarification. I guess I'm just a victim of me taking thing too literally. I don't know the size of my pot, but have a glass bowl inside with the good wax in it and cheap wax to surround it.
I used to enjoy Francis Cade until his channel was hijacked by Jimmi and his wife. They are so amateurish and talk nonsense a lot of the time. I still enjoy the Francis videos when he is on an adventure.
Hi Adam, some time ago you did a few tests of trying to use a smaller container surrounded by water within an ultrasonic machine, in order to limit the solvent usage, but it wasn't particularly successful. From memory the containers you tried were solid sided and the thought process was that some of the energy of the ultrasonic waves was being absorbed by the container rather than getting to where it is needed. Have you tried with a really thin walled container like a zip lock bag or similar? Perhaps that might absorb less energy? Maybe I missed it. Cheers, Cameron
Hey Cameron! Yes correct - i did do some demonstration video as well (i think - ultrasonic like a boss vid) - in general there will be very low ultrasonic power doing this. Many solvents actually have pretty low cavitation power to begin with, and putting in a glass container surrounded by water - you now also have different viscosity liquids which hinders further. Putting in any thickness of plastic does also reduce drastically. A very thin plastic bag wont really hinder much, but overall - the path is less optimal thats for sure. If one wishes to use water to reduce amount of cleaning solution - it really helps to a) use an aqueous solution (which is mostly proper ultrasonic solutions) and to use a glass container. Plastic bag can work but they may also rupture. The best way to know if its working is simply to do the foil test demonstrated. If in 1 min there is significant damage to the foil, then yeehaa - strong cavitation and ultrasonic cleaning. Little to no damage, one is not getting much ultrasonic action going on and its not working well enough to bother faffing with US cleaning with that method - or you need to do a lot of repeat long runs to get anywhere.
Okay, so I’m doing something that most will cringe about but it works for me: I love the Silca immersion wax and am using it on my good bikes since March this year and I intend on sticking with it all year around, topping it up with Super Secret in between at times. On the commuter (I commute 200-300 km per week), I use the old chain from the good bike which is already at 0.5, it basically gets a second life (cringe) and is a chain from before I started waxing on the good bikes (when I was still using Squirt for all bikes). Also, I still use Squirt for the commuter bike chain (cringe) - I run it for another 5,000 km until it’s at 0.75, then that chain goes into the bin. I only have two chains left for the commuter and am wondering whether to switch to immersion waxing once I have to install a new chain.
Ha dont worry, i have heard oh so much worse in my time ! :) If you arent concerned with wear, running, cleanliness etc on commuter bike and that path is working, then its not a wrong path. I do still think that you will be wearing through cog and ring teeth going that path, and so depending on cost and riding pleasure levels - cost of replacing those post 2nd life chain vs if you went new chains on wax to 0.5%. If you get a hardwearing chain/s - like link glide lg500 - and run a couple on rotation on immersive wax - wow wow wow that is a long term relationship for those chains and you DT parts. Popular is two chains on rotation so run one for one week and then swap. If you get caught on a wet commute and no time to re wax that chain - then wipe dry, add a good coating of SS drip for the next day and just do that as needed to get to weekend for chain swap. But two hardy chains on rotation like that for commuting - that is going to see you through for such a long time, and it will be clean, and running lovely (and if needed, help you with any commuter cup segments! :))
I think so, they do cover a broad range of topics and i imagine they want their audience to be a very broad range including lots who have nice bikes and groupsets. As such i do find it perplexing that the one area that will save their audience the most money each year BY FAR as it is the part working like a bat out of hell and completely exposed to all contamination - is one's chain lubricant. Nick just really seems to come from a place of he has never, ever, every tracked chain wear kms to lubricant - so if a lubricant path rips through chain, its running like meh or crap after a few thousand kms, and when you replace chain after 5ish thousand kms and need a new cassette and have made good inroads into your chain rings as well - he doesnt blink at that - that's all good an normal. Maybe he is too used to paying w/sale, or getting free stuff, and doesnt ride high end stuff. He has no concept of what it means to many cyclists to get 10,000km + of perfect low friction super clean riding on expensive chains, cassttes and chain rings and then replace JUST THE CHAIN and repeat, and how much money this saves. Not everyone who buys an expensive bike with a top tier groupset is rolling in it, and that the cost of replacing DT components is inconsequential. There has been a big increase in % of cyclists buying their bikes on finance. So they are paying interest on a 10k+ loan. And then having to spend hundreds or over 1k in a short time to replace chain and cassette due to running a shite lube (or a lube that quickly becomes a grinding paste due to riding conditions and the advice from a high profile mechanic is just pop more lube on) - its really not great. I am sure at heart Cade would like that he information they provide to their audience, when followed, gives their audience a great experience. Simply advice in this area will not. Advice that will absolutely have people needing to replace DT components post winter vs have a great DT at end of winter, basically they are actively advising against how to have a great DT come winters end, and that is just really poor and they should do better. I will never forget one of my customers when i had the workshop going. He had saved for a long time to buy his dream bike with a dura ace groupset. He was running a poor lube (which of course he thought was a great lube cos thats what the bike shop recommended). When he brought the bike to me he had ridden the bike 3000km (thanks to strava making this easy). Chain was at 1.5% wear. He needed new chain, new cassette, and new chain rings. This was high hundreds of bucks. He was literally crestfallen, and he was genuinely stressed about how to break that news to his partner. It wasnt part of the deal buying that bike that it would cost the same as a Ferrari to run. Thankfully, waxed life after that, and its been yeehaa. But this is part of my personal passion re focus in this area. I dont think CADE get it AT ALL that the above will be happening to cyclists all over the world to some level. I am lucky i have a good discretionary budget for cycling spend, but even still - there are a heck of lot of fun things i have bought that i would not have had the clearance to buy if those $$ had had to be spend constantly buying new chains, cassettes and chain rings.
I guess that drip-on wax can be washed away as I guess (again) that the emulgeator don't evaporate. I will try it with squirt, silca and decathlon lubes. It is not like you pour water on them, and they gone, but need to rub them a bit. However, saying that immersive wax can be washed away with water sounds like that you could wash away a stick of candle with water.
I tried to wash down drip-on wax with water, here are my findings: Decathlon wax: I was able to totally clean it up from the metal ruler by gently rub it under water. This wax is BS from the very beginning, don't even consider buying it. Squirt (don't know which one, standard or ebike): I had some initial solubility, but then I just smeared the whole thing on the ruler. I guess it should stay in the chain even in rain Silca secret wax: It did not stick well to begin with, as it released the ruler by the slightest touch. However, after that I was able to smear it in the same way as the Squirt, so I guess it stays in the chain in wet conditions. First I dried the drops on my heater, and it resulted in some strange result as well. The Squirt and the Decathlon wax stayed in place, but the Silca wax melted away, and left some black residuals, which may be the additives they are using. Because of that I added one more drops from each wax and let them dry overnight.
Yes thats been really interesting! I havent had a chance to play with tensile test machine for ages, and alas even then i cant yet test chain line angles to put pin riveting to the test. But the chains i tested straight line, sram 12spd eagle were very strong. It could be any number of things. It could be a bad batch - any poor riveting on any pin will fail relatively easily under load on chain line angles. It could be chain line angles are often fairly extreme due to set up with how outboard chain ring is and cassette range / position. Past the lateral flexibility of the chain this really starts to load up the outer plate trying to be pried off the pins - and this can also just lead to fatigue failure of the rivets - ie its ok for some riding leading up to race, but cracks were starting by race time. it could be riders shift behavior and thinking that its generally best to shift under full pedalling load as much as possible, especially when i want to shift 3 cogs at once for this upcoming mulch hill or hairpin. Things like this can be really hard for gen pop to ever get to know the story - if it is /was sram chains batch / mfg issue - that will likely be kept under wraps - sram havent exactly been open on some fronts recently. If its set up / rider behavior thats changed, it is unlikely the team or riders will give an update to us on that. It is likely the issue will be solved, but sadly unlikely we will know what it was :( Of the chains we sell, and we sell A LOT of chains for ybn, sram across road, gravel, eagle and t-type, and shimano - chain failures overall remain very rare, and at least half of the failures we do have reported and checking through things - there is not a repeat failure. only a couple of times in 8 years have we had a rider have multiple chain failures for any brand - and on chatting we do find every time that yes they have a habit of shifting under very high load as standard practice. So at this stage we havent seen any sram chain failures reported for a while now, and hopefully there are no batch issues that will change that as it is a right pain for everyone when a chain fails!
Regarding 7:08, maybe coat the chain with powder , use a fine brush to remove the excess and heat in the air fryer ( not if used for food ) at low temperature ? You may have an issue with powder circulating inside the dryer ? I've read the SDS for the Pinpoint powder and 99% of it by weight is talc ! The data sheet also says ... " Under normal conditions of use, this product is not expected to create any unusual hazard. This product is not flammable, not reactive, not explosive has no flash point, and poses no special hazards in the presence of fire. " If it works you will want to do the same for just the powder, just to check that heat alone doesn't change its colour.
Thanks and yep i did try that! I put some on a ybn, worked in with gloved fingers, chucked it in the workshop air fryer for 10 mins at 80c. Still came out pink. Heres me thinking this powder would make it easy hahahaha - apply and if any grease or oil present it would simply nicely show...... alas this little project is proving more difficult to get a nice clear tangible assessment....
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Does any solvent that gives a positive result on its own , when evaporated turn the powder colour back to pink ? It would be helpful to know what causes the colour change and I doubt AGC will tell you. Even if you manage to get the dye into the chain grease, its possible the chemical structures don't exist to make the colour change ?
Honestly, living in Brisbane, I’m always confused about the references to ‘winter’ being so hard. Winter for me means the driest time of year! I’m interested in hearing about what I need to do different with my waxing routine when I get hammered with a summer storm in 30 degree centigrade heat! (I have the same issue with ‘winter gear’ advice - I need warm, not waterproof, and summer rain is the most annoying wrapping myself in plastic just makes me boil alive!). Also that guy is a bike mechanic, he has a lot of weird opinions about all sorts of things, I just wouldn’t take his opinions at face value.
yeah for chain its really still the same - the issue is the crap the water brings in. Just re lubing - you are not really doing much to get that out. So post wet ride recommended is to always re wax if practical, if not - then wipe chain and re lube with wax compatible drip lube so its protected from rusting and re lubed for next ride, and keep doing this until you can re wax to reset. The kit challenge is tougher...... If you get cold (need warm) - i guess its still popping on at least some water proof layers like a vest and arm warmers, that are then easily removed. I think you can get waterproof (or resistant) in such - and if they are at least water resistant, then they can be enhanced with nikwax tech wash + water proofing spray. If its not proper waterproof clothing, they wont hold up to a sustained downpour, but they will hold up for a bit. Ie i have kit that is treated as such - and so if its "showers possible" - and i get caught in a shower - then i have a pretty good chance that it will be ok (and here being usually cooler i can pack a jacket if its not going to be), and then i have proper water proof stuff for if im heading out and its raining solid or going to be raining solid soon enough. I also do the tech wash and spray on a bunch of my weekend casual wear on my outdoor pants and jacket/s etc - handy for standing in the rain at mini me sports events when the rain is coming in sideways and umbrella not so good. Many parents will have a waterproof jacket but their jeans let them down!!! :)
I had a local riding buddy condemn your practices with chain waxing . Their chain is a mess we had a debate and have now parted ways . Squirt accumulation over time in ther case .
Yeah squirt can honestly be a great option for many - but..... many on either wax drips like squirt, or wet lubes - dont get to know their treatment lifespans for their riding. Apply a wet lube too much / too often / both - you get a black mess. Apply some wax drips like squirt / smoove to much, to often / both - you get quite an excess gunk build up and one that can be a really tough clean. Squirt and smoove applied correctly (the right amount, excess wiped after work in, re apply when needed) - they remain relatively clean for an impressive number of miles. however - they are still a tougher clean when maintenance is needed, and if that is frequently due to wet conditions - they can be a bit of work.
47:22 .... imho Conflict of interest is the main reason Nick is dismissing wax, if everyone used wax he would loose a big chunk, possibly the majority of his sales - chains, fancy chain lube bottles, regularly servicing oily gritty drivetrains and replacing high end components is his bread and butter. Nick can happily spout poorly delivered misinformation as he is only interested in himself.
Alrighty let me pin the basics here.
No matter what lubricant you are using, if you ride in the rain - post wet ride you can either just add more lubricant - which not do much at all to the crap the water brought in, or - recommended if practical - you can reset your chain. The more your drivetrain parts are worth, and the less you want to have them quickly worn - the more recommended resetting chain post wet ride. You pay the piper one of two ways - with a little time and effort to reset, or with friction and wear even if next ride is in the sun.
Oil lubricants are A LOT more faff, mess and cost (and disposal) to reset than immersive waxing.
If you are immersive waxing either;
> Re wax chain. The chain cannot and will not rust if you put it in your wax pot and re coat it in wax.
> If re wax is not practical, simply re apply a compatible wax drip lubricant (silca ss drip, ufo drip, Tru-Tension tungsten all weather). Almost always if chain is re lubricated - chain will not rust.
> In more extreme cases (salted roads, rust prone chains - ie most shimano 12s chains) they still spot rust even if re wax drip lubricated - then -
* Spray chain with isopropyl alcohol (or spray cloth and wipe chain) - wipe chain - this will remove surface minerals that are rust catalysts and also help displace water. Then re lubricate with compatible wax drip.
This is the path of many an intrepid commuter on IM waxing, or avid cyclists hitting the winter miles frequently and between work and family etc - re waxing during the week just doesnt work for them. It takes 60 secs to alcohol spray, wipe and re lube chain - then on weekend - pop chain in wax pot to reset. This is still all VASTLY easier and less faff and mess than solvent flush cleaning a chain.
So you can follow cade advice - go to oil, have a mess, have a devil of a time trying to keep lubricant from being liquid sandpaper, and likely just have to replace most of DT components at end of winter. Or you can IM wax + wax drip above - have a clean, low friction chain and drivetrain, and finish winter with everything going great and not needing replacement.
Remember also a great tip for some is to run multiple chains on rotation. Not only can it be easier to just pop one chain off post wet ride and pop into pot, and pop other chain thats ready to go on - but it GUARANTEE's multiple chains through your cassette vs potentially just one if you get caught out running one chain too long. If you have a $700 cassette and you ride a lot in harsh conditions, this can just be simple smart way to roll. Sooner or later you always need a new chain, so pre buying next chain to run two on rotation - there is no downside.
Since switching to wax, I haven't spent half an hour washing bike and drivetrain every week, even wet rides are so much easier to remedy now.
Waxing is the logical way for longevity and ease of use, its that simple. Spare money for nice kit etc etc is a nice little bonus for sure.
Agree 100% with your remarks about the poor advice given out by Cade Media on waxed chains in the winter. Obviously Mechanic Nic doesn't like to use wax, which is a bit of an adopted lifestyle. Cade media doesn't really cater to the crowd that is likely servicing their own bikes with the amount of dedication to detail that waxing requires so maybe it's best that they advise against using wax for their viewers, but it isn't a good reason to spread false information that is easily de-bunked. I appreciate that you called them out on this.
Here in Korea, we get heavy rain in summer, and winter is possibly more hostile with snow, ice, mud, and heavy applications of calcium chloride as road salt. Over 95% of bikes I see have rusted chains. Winter is coming, and I am looking forward to seeing how wax will perform.
I stopped watching Cade simply because of that ‘expert’ they keep using. Complete nonsense he speaks all the time. Embarrassing for them. I now only watch their tours e.g. India recently which are amusing.
all expert is their mate anyway
So called "bike mechanic" Nic a an f-ing shill. He earns his money selling bike parts. Him especially giving regularly really bad advice on bike maintenance. It seems more reasonable to treat your own carbon bike with a chain saw than handing it to him.
Couldn't agree more. I don't understand why they use him to give "expert" advice when he is so ignorant.
I want to thank you again for your detailed information about waxing. It changed my riding to the better and i wont go back to oil ever.
As luck would have it, I did a 2 hour ride in the rain today, chain was silent and shifting as good as when I started the ride. It took me 10 mins to clean the bike with water and cloth and probably about 10 mins for the work needed on the chain to flush, wax and put on a new waxed chain. Just for fun, I checked the chain wear, which has had 1500km on it in all UK seasons. Using Pedro’s chain checker wear was, well, non existent on the clean but non waxed chain. No need for degreaser or other cleaning products and once the bike was clean my none gloved hands were spotless.
The one point someone made that I'm not sure is right or not re wax and water is the following: "Drip wax lubes have an emulsion agent in them to enable them to work at all. When a chain with drip wax gets exposed to water, it re-activates the emulsion agent and the wax becomes liquid and can be easily washed off the chain."
I'd like this to be false but following that logic that would assume that the emulsifier would evaporate off, and the drip lubes I use don't smell like alcohol/acetone/etc so I'm not sure what to think.
For reference, I have had pretty bad performance from some 'cleaner' wax drips (things like TTT will last through a lot more as they're a very high oil content)
no i am 99.999% certain that is false - they will not re emulsify, it takes a decent process to emulsify the wax initially, and once set, it is set. Some wax emulsion drips are very impressive re wet lifespan like smoove, ab graphenlube etc - others can be fairly short - but not due to re emulsifying, just the amount of wax and wax type and so how long that coating holds up against being abraded off.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Almost forgot, I did an experiment where I put various wax drips in foil cupcake tins, let them dry completely and then added water. Some stayed stuck to the bottom, others broke off in large chunks and floated to the top and others just melted into a milky mess, reminiscent of that video you did of UFO Wet. I can send photos if you're interested!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I can't deny this. I've seen it in real life with decathlon drip wax.
I applied on the chain -> then wax hardens overnight -> 40 km bike ride -> bike wash
Now all of a sudden a white semi liquid is all over the chain and chain ring. I'm using a Sonax profiline car shampoo that does not dissolve waxes btw. However after few hours the bike and chain was dry again, and there was no any visible evidence of the the white semi liquid fluid. On touch, the chain felt just as it was fresh waxed. No sound on the next 40km bike ride though.
The Decathlon drip wax is rated for dry conditions only. So it might not be universal, but plausible with some drip waxes.
I will wait for the rain, and check if the CeramicSpeed wet drip lube dues the same.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 are replies being deleted? I've had this a few times now. Synopsis of post that's not public - I've tested and found some wax drips dissolve in water once set, can show pics if needed....
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Testing, testing....that's two replies now that have disappeared. No dodgy keywords in this one, so let's see what happens....
I’m super happy with Silca Secret wax immersion, wipe downs and re-apply Silca drip wax, in between. Never had any issues and completely love my non-greasy chains. I can’t imagine ever using oil again.
And only thing riders have to do is just try waxing by themselves.
Best method so far and a gamechanger compared to oils. It's been so easy since I swapped from oils to immersive waxing 5 years ago. And I do ride during winter when it's below freezing with snow and ice.
Adam, have you ever considered opening a crowdfunding for a fourth machine? If you direct it for open tests, it may apeal to a larger audience
Hey! no i probably wouldnt go that path - if i did then i would feel bad if i was unable to get as many open tests through as the crowd might hope. ZFC can afford to build a fourth machine (it just literally takes circa 20k revenue to cover a 2k spend - net margins on selling lubricants and chains is..... not high -around 10%). It is partly i will struggle a bit for room, and also i need the time to run a 4th. Running 3 tests is very time consuming, running 4.... it will to a degree slow down the running of the other 3 as there is only so many work hours i have each day.
But based on the test list battles with current 3 machines, a 4th may just have to come in to get open testing going to a much better rate again.
Moral of the story: don't take advice on components from someone who makes a living selling replacement components. also: Don't take advice on bike fit from someone who makes a living selling bike fits, expensive inner soles and overpriced cycling shoes etc , especially if that person doesn't blink and talks 100 words per minute but because he's clearly high AF on Adderall or coke in every video he appears in.
I do like Francis though, seems like a decent human that loves riding bikes. On the subject my chain runs fine in / after rain with a home made paraffin/bees wax and graphite power mix, plus my legs and jeans have never been cleaner! half my saddle bag is starting to rust though, thanks Adam.
Out of curiosity started immersive waxing back in March and last week gone back to oil based lube (Morgan Blue Race Oil)
hey david share some more if you have time - ie what made you switch back?
@zerofrictioncycling992 well firstly as we know getting all the prep done when starting out is time consuming but kinda fun, after using broom to break up wax fitted it and thought wow, this is kinda shit, went for a ride and after 2km it loosened off and man it was glorious. Smooth, quite and the shifting was so fast and effortless and im using DA8100 so that is saying something. So first stint did 3 chains all going well, couldnt believe how clean it stayed een after 400km, where I live is dry and dusty but still was incredible. Did the rewax once 3rd chain was on and so fourth. Noticed 3rd switching on cooker, by now was up to 8 waxed chains from Silca product the k's ridden before changing was dropping fast, going from 370-400k per chain to sounding and feeling ruff at 300k to this latest batch were barely hit 200k and sounded and felt like a raw chain. So then i sat down and thought about it. At this rate the amount of riding i do will see about 3 bags wax and many links, then their is the tine for cooker to heat up, removing chains, waxing and prepping reading to go. Also every 2nd chain cassette gets a build up of wax clumps so shifting in a gear with those lumps doesnt feel sharp so more time cleaning cassette. Where as before all this i have tried sooooo many drip lubes and since 2016 have stuck with Finish Line Wet and have no reason to not go back. Yeah it gets messy and requires a wipe of rim, spokes and chain every ride but that takes 2mins. Reapply about 300k-ish, wipe with rag as best i can, wipe between cassette, rings and jockey wheels before running metho soaked rag and few times around chain, all without removing. Doing this over the years on Tarmac with Ultegra 6800 mechanical had me getting 7500-8000k before .5 on measuring tool went all the way in all be it with some help, it had alot more life left. Over the course of 55000k the chainrings are still on and went through 3 casettes and maybe 6 chains, always great shifting and never an issue, not bad for a $16 bottle lube. With all the pissing around for me it is way too much wasted time and money for something as simple as cycling. I am very ocd with my gear and although at first the wax felt great in the long run i feel it is more time consuming and costly. In saying all that i will still wax mtb chain as thatnis where it works best, and the amount of mtb riding i get done at waxed chain will last atleast 1 year!!!!
I watched cade media for a while , then one day i thought to myself "hang on,this is utter sh*te". I'm embarrassed i took a while and didn't see it sooner.
I've found rusting having to do as much with the chain than the lube. Some chains seem to rust if you barely breathe on them. Others seem to be fine even if you ride in the ocean. Maybe the coating on the chain or the alloy?
yes there is a big variance on chains - there have been a lot of problems especially with shimano 12s chains aside from the m9100.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Do you know of any testing data on this?
I found out that there are test laboratories that have done some chain lubricant tests pre - release in the U.S. from an in - law,'s cousin..
yes i am trying to avoid using a test lab - but that may have to be the path, but that could be really costly.
I had a nice experience with immersion wax. I've switched about 10 of the family bikes over at this point. For my mountain bike in dry California conditions, I couldn't be more thrilled. The performance is off the charts. Dirty, dusty, totally abrasive really fine dust DOUSING the entire bike in the Sierra is of no consequence! Love it!
Anyway, I had noticed over the last year or two that my city bike drive train was feeling a bit "crunchy." Despite doing my old regular routine of chain maintenance along with regular chain checking, something wasn't right. It's an old bike, but with a nice mix of XT, XTR and other boutique parts. Even so, I just assumed that I had finally worn my middle chainring out. But it was minor, so I didn't really address the issue.
Switched that bike over to wax after degreasing the chain thoroughly. Boy was I surprised to discover a silky-smooth riding drive train. No more "crunchiness!" Wow, total bonus! A very nice surprise. (It's been three months since the switch - still running great on its initial wax with no follow up chain care whatsoever.)
That so called mechanic on Cade media talks a load of tosh, and it’s not the first time he has!
Yeah there have been some lets say ..... interesting bits of advice over the times of seen the channel thats for sure. I could be wrong but to me it just seems like re chain lubrication and waxing, he speaks as an authority re the advice but simply has EXTREMELY low experience with waxing. He has either tried it but not done it correctly or he has simply not even properly tried it. It is possible once he has waxed, ridden in the rain, not simply re waxed or added wax lube to protect, come back to a rusting chain, called waxing crap and gone back to oil - or he has seen other cyclists do this, and based on that - called waxing crap.
Considering how many people around the world in harsh winters in countries that have harsh winters have an easy grand ol time with IM waxing by simply doing the above - you would think by now he would just go ok - let me check how am i supposed to do waxing in wet / winter - oh its that easy - let me try that. Considering i ride in the wet muck in winter all the time and spend f all time on chain and DT maintenance and never have any rust, and same story repeated countless thousands of times around the world - if he is getting a different result (if he has even tried it) - surely then he should ponder what the difference could be? learn about that, then more experience, then be qualified somewhat to talk on the topic.
@ absolutely. Ive found that the people who say waxing is crap, haven’t done it correctly, usually because they don’t start with a thoroughly clean chain. I’ve been waxing my chains for a few years now, mainly because of watching your channel, and I’m based in the UK , which isn’t renowned for its warm, dry climate 😂 I won’t be going back to an oil based lube anytime soon!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 He gets to sell his customers lots of nice fresh chains and cassettes I guess?!
@@stevenrose3352 whilst i hope that thought is not too widespread with LBS, i do know for a fact that is exactly the thought with some. There is a major store in adelaide that at one time ensured they avoided top products like mspeedwax, choosing others like wend wax instead (as well as muc-off, finish line and white lightning for an all round murderous selection opportunity for their customers). Upon chatting to them the manager did say, i kid you not, that putting their business hats on it would be silly to stock products like Mspeedwax. Sigh......
Keep up the great work
Waxing seems pretty simple to me. I just bought a pre-prepped chain and got straight into it as it didn't cost much more and saved me having to buy the stripper. I don't see what the big deal is doing it this way as I pay others to do things for me (make food, alter my clothes, drive me places at times). So Adam is just another person providing a service. I don't need to go out in the wet much, so am happy with my current wax, drip, drip, drip, wax.
Does chain wax still work when it's below freezing? Like -10c or so? I'd like to find something that works well for fatbiking this winter.
Chainsaw bar oil.
It does. Consider place the chain back in the bike just after it cooled down. Just as it's getting hard but not when it's hot. This helps pushing the wax out a bit and make things smoother from the start. This is only needed when we'll below 0c.
It does, but immersive hot wax can take a while to break in. To avoid the break in period, I often go with drip wax when it's that cold.
One problem is that at low temperatures wax becomes more and more brittle and - to my experience doesn't last as long as in summer. The more important problem is that once a part of the wax is gone the bare metal surface will be wet by water and that the water will freeze in your chain. Oil will still form a film under these conditions. Another point to consider is that in winter you have a lot of salt in the water (if you are riding on/close to a road) which will promote corrosion of your chain. Thus, personally, I disagree with Adam and cannot recommend wax in a real winter (= freezing temperatures, ice, snow and salt).
Squirt has a wax variant which is intended to use in cold environment. It should not freeze in its container, I guess because the solvent is water, but when it dries out you can use it in freezing temperatures
Great explanations and advice. Cade media so called expert gives the impression he gets his info from hear say in his back street workshop and not actually research or experience. He is great at selling replacement chains and cassettes 🤔😡 I am at the point that I need lubrication when he starts speaking.
AFAIK the friction studies on waxing are done within a few hrs of treatment
Any studies done in the real world or after a long ide in not so great conditions?
The ceramic speed testing protocol is over 13 hours - so its a decent test, and there has been some testing done of chains post races / events but typically this data is sporadic and not open (nor is it for any other lubricant type). There should be / needs to be more of this done, aside from it being more investment in time, logistics and faff, i dont know why more of this hasnt been done and published - and it is something i will be discussing with those that have the ability to do so like ceramic speed and silca.
From ZFC testing however, the fact that the wear rates remain so low in harsh conditions over long test intervals and blocks is a very good sign.
I wax all my bikes apart from one (I have 5)
The only one I don’t wax is my commuter bike.
I ride my commuter bike 300miles a month in all UK weathers.
Out of my extensive experience using immersive wax is, whatever I do, it’s difficult to stop the chain on my commuter bike from getting rust.
The only way I’ve found to stop this is use bike chain oil.
So I’ve been using silca wax at the moment and I love using wax but I agree using wax in foul cold wet weather at this time of year won’t stop the chain from getting rust spots.
thanks for the input - so you have tried the tips covered in this vid? And what chain?
My experience from 1.5 years of immersion waxing chains on my commuter bike, riding in all conditions and in the European Alps sometimes in snow/snow-slush: I really enjoy the performance and cleanliness of my bike, but if I ride home in strong rain, or through snow-slush (and salt!) I cannot leave my waxed chain on the bike. The chain needs to go into the pot when I get home after work on such days, or I will get some rust, even if I wipe the chain dry, I think the main reason is that I don't manage to get the entire bike dry, and it will continue to accumulate water e.g. at the pully wheels where the chain will get rust spots). In this regard the wax is worse than oil, it demands the attention after harsh wet rides.
It took me a while to learn this, but overall I feel that the immersion wax is still a great deal overall, even in winter. As pointed out in the video, putting your chain into the pot is not very time-consuming, and has the really nice benefit of clearing out the certainly present contaminants brought in after such rides. And I would say that even in winter I only get such harsh or really wet conditions once or twice per week on average.
@ after a long day at work my bike is getting left. No way I’m removing chains, swapping chains or putting in my immersive wax. The other bikes I have time for, but my everyday commuter, waxing is way too much work every single day, it’s too much.
You would have to do this everyday to stop I
The chain rusting. Who has time in our busy lives to do this?
@@bikepackingadventure7913 Putting the chain in the pot directly after work is surely a small hassle - but I only do it if it was really raining *hard*, or when riding through snow-slush. This doesn't happen all that often, definitively not every day! And if it was just a small drizzle, then wiping the chain with a micro-fiber cloth is sufficient in my experience (maybe also top it off with drop wax like suggested in the video).
My assumption is that in the long run you save time with this routine, as replacing/repairing components costs time (and money), and also when you need to clean your bike, you save a lot of time with a waxed chain. Not to mention the bike just rides better throughout... but, I don't want to tell you what to do, if your oil based commuter works for you, then that is what is important.
@@bikepackingadventure7913 hey! did you not see the part about if doing a re wax post wet is not practical;
> Wipe chain
> re apply compatible wax lube to protect and re lube until you can next re wax (ie weekend). This is the normal path for intrepid waxing commuters
The cade media podcast has some absolute crap on it especially when Nick and Jimmi start talking. Especially Nick.
They do come across as the cycling podcast equivalent of the not quite well informed enough blokes spouting opinions down the pub.
@@joules2936 Nero is up there with that as well sometimes. Again I think it's mainly Nick. Francis and especially Emily are great. Jimmi has some whack oppinions and Nick is straight up delusional.
That's maybe a bit harsh. Nick is just wrong about chain waxing... don't see much else.
Proof me wrong, what have I missed, that they are badly wrong about?
Maybe its the english accent, but NIck comes across as very arrogant..i wouldnt l let him touch my bike
@@hinrichaue7199agreed. Nick is a great mechanic otherwise. Jimmy is anti Serious / Competitive Riders so… that’s where the NERO SHOW intervenes
I think you should put some videos of your races up for us! 🙂
yeah i do have a go pro but have not bothered using for ages - pilfered the SD card for my sons DJ camera and never got around to replacing it! But yesterday would have been a good one, tough course for the states - across people practicing in the lead up plus race day there have been quite a high number of injuries- some sections for sure a bit exciting when you have to navigate them at the best speed you dare - mind you it always looks waaaaayyyyy tamer on video so ive rarely strapped the go pro on. Thankfully i survived practice and the race ok and managed to get the win for master 5 yesterday woohoo! aside I've missed a couple years state xco from crash injuries but the 5 or 6 years ive raced them ive been 2nd or 3rd everytime so its nice to finally go the one step higher!
Yay! I As recent convert to no more sh*t all over me and my drivetrain, I've done a couple of old ones via drip wax. I did notice the outer plates got rusty as I focused on the rollers...fixed by remebering to coat the outer plates as well nextime. Runs like a dream though!
2 Pot System for life! Not accusing him of anything but Nick actually owns the bike shop so wear may not be his top priority.
I use a car polish spray wax (just water/Isopropanol/wax) to protect the cassette (and essentially the entire bike) from corrosion. Spray on and forget (or polish the parts of the bike that are accessible for your microfiber towel). As a very quick no-time protection of the chain, I spray on the car-polish on a microfiber cloth and let the chain run though it directly after the wet ride. This takes off excess water and puts on a superficial lay of wax on the outside of the chain. I use this if I have not exceeded the run-time of the last wax application, so if I just made a wet ride on a rather freshly waxed chain.
9:30 , Uncertainty suggests that a consultant industrial chemist would help guide Adam at these "cross-roads" decision making situations .
In order to speed up testing couldn't you split a chain into two or more pieces and treat the separately, then join the pieces back together to put through testing. As long as you mark which piece of chain was treated with which lubricant?
Alas that would be often a bit problematic, and could increase variables. For many drip lubricants there would be cross contamination issues, so it could only be for immersive waxes - but even then general observations are important as well - how flakey / messy - how does the chain sound towards the end of wet contamination intervals (some will be sounding obviously dry and so likely nearing end of treatment lifespan, others sounding fine and dandy). Mixing two product tests together would bring a host of issues sadly :(
Any advice for a daily commuter as I have found my chain spot rusting in the time between locking it up in the bike shed after a wet ride in to the office because I can’t dry it before leaving it for 8 to 10 hours? I love the immersive waxing for how clean my clothes are now compared to oil
I've just started taking a microfiber in by bag to work, just run the chain through the microfiber when i get there dries off most of the wetness
yes as per below - if you are having a rust issue whilst at work - pack a cloth and yr bottle of wax lube - take a literal 30 secs to wipe chain and whack on some wax drip to protect.
The Cade media chap is the typical type of bike shop mechanic that thinks he knows it all, talks woith confidence and is not at all qualified...avoid, I stopped watching them in part because of this.
A bunch of "Ride Mechanic" products yet to be covered . A new set of Weldtite ones . Adam will never keep up with the "snowball" of new products coming out .
Ride mechanic is a bit of an interesting story. They almost booked in for a test a long time ago but in the end didnt go ahead. Then a little bit later came back and wanted me to stock products - without me testing, and they didnt have any of their own data to share to back product performance either - and got pretty angry with me that i would simply stock and recommend, based on nada - which i was rather perplexed and disappointed by as it clearly goes against the openly stated ZFC model. So things were left there, and as Ride Mechanic doesnt have big global distribution, they just have a much lower overall interest globally re test requests than products that are available across the world.
Being an aussie company over the years i have chatted to many local racers - especially in mtb scene - using Ride mechanic, and their experience seems similar to those using say squirt or smoove - some really happy, some found things gunk up quickly (but like with squirt or smoove - it is possible they are not using correctly - ie over applying too much, too often). So until / if i test - i wont know if their products are great, meh, not so great. I hope the former of course. But yeah until i maybe get a 4th machine, and their product is requested for testing more than many other products - it isnt looking that likely i will get to test anytime soon if they dont book in.
Is it effective to spray alcohol on the chain itself to help disperse water If I cant properly dry my waxed chain after a wet commute?
yep for sure and that does help indeed.
@@zerofrictioncycling992many thanks, looking forward to trying that
Wax is crap in winter and I'm a serial waxer - because chains rust SO FAST. Sure it can be avoided with some serious attention, but in winter I strongly recommend using cheap parts that can wear fast and a good wet lube with excess wiped off.
I hate these neggy comments about the opinions on other youtube videos - they might be technically wrong, but they're not wrong for 99% of people who want simple advice that works most the time.
I'm unsubscribing from this channel. ZFC used to be a great resource but now it's just cringe.
James if you had rusting so fast - simply you weren't following the simple advice given in this vid. Ie - if you re wax your chain post wet ride, how does it rust? if you cant re wax but instead add a coating of wax lube, how does it rust? It has been covered in the past with waxing and wet that you cannot just ride and then park bike and leave it, but just do some very small things to protect.
Literally countless waxing customers around the world (mine, msw, silca etc) wax through winter in countries that have harsh winters, salted roads etc and have a grand time. So it might be worth pondering why they have that experience and you had yours. Again i assure you, if you pop the chain back into the wax pot, it aint rusting....
I correct thoroughly because in the case of drivetrain the "people who want simple advice" - in this case if following Nick's advice could well be up for a lot of money at the end of winter for new drivetrain components vs having a drivetrain thats still amazing. That is why i am always passionate to try to ensure the best, and correct information in this space, and i work to correct information that is simply very incorrect especially when it will be seen by hundreds of thousands of people. Who knows how many Nick has now cost a lot of $$$ by following his "advice" from a mechanic. Thousands of cyclists possibly at least. I am sorry but i genuinely take exception to thousands of cyclists going out and now ruining their lovely drivetrains vs taking great care of them in a manner that is so easy to do with just a little bit of actual knowledge - like so many now around the world through harsh winters do.
If you take exception to my working hard on these efforts - by all means - go elsewhere for information in this area of cycling.
@zerofrictioncycling992 for a starter I go for a coffee at the end of my ride, and then the bike goes in the van for the drive home. That's enough for rust already. Are you seriously suggesting good advice for the majority of cyclists (and cade media don't target the high performance end of the spectrum) is to go and immediately clean and then rewax their chain? Come on man.
This comments section is an echo chamber of the worst kind.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 In the UK, it's wet, filthy wet and muddy this time of the year. I wash my chain at the end of a ride - there is absolutely no wax left. I then add some wax lube (a good one you recommend, and as per instructions)) but I get rust on the plates overnight - everytime and no matter how well I dry the chain.
@@kevvjj2629yup!
It is true that waxing your chain requires a little bit of extra attention/work after wet conditions ride, such as strong rain. In my experience, if my bike is not completely soaked, e.g. if I rode only through light rain, then wiping down the chain with a micro fiber cloth after the ride (that I keep in a bag on the bike), is sufficient - the video also recommends reapplying some drip-wax.
If on the other hand your bike is very wet, then wiping the chain is not sufficient, as water will continue to accumulate at the bottom of the casette and the pully wheels, after you have dried the chain. In this scenario, I just take the chain off, and either throw it in the wax pot immediately if time permits, or just wrap it up in a dry towel and put it aside for re-waxing at a later point. I recommend to not put the new chain on immediately, but to leave the bike to dry over night, and when you do your next ride, take the extra minute to install a fresh chain.
If your bike is drenched, but you are not at home where you have the tools to take the chain off, e.g. when you get wet when commuting to work, I just wipe down the chain with the microfiber cloth when I arrive - even a long day of work is not going to cause much rust in such a short time span. At worst you might get a tiny bit of surface rust, which doesn't look pretty but is not damaging the chain - you can wipe it off and the re-waxing treatment in the evening will get the chain back into excellent shape.
All my bikes (8 no) are waxed (3 years now), nothing to do with speed, just because I had some time convalescing and aldi had a cheap crockpot! Not sure if the effort trying to stop rust after most UK rides is worth it. For my time and product costs I could put a new chain on every four rides for the same money. It seems I'm spending £100's to make a £30 chain last an extra 500k.
Hey edmund! ah most it really isnt spending much to go IM waxing. A pot, and some wax. In general a bag of wax will last at least 10,000km in dry riding, or around 5000km of mixed / harsh conditions - many people spend more than that or a lot more than that over the same kms for their chosen drip lubricant as they may use 2 to 4 bottles or more depending on what it is. Plus wear rates. Plus any maintenance costs.
It is not uncommon in UK and similar - even if one is not worried about chain and DT parts costs as 8spd or 10spd tiagra etc - but they hate the black mess - is they buy a cheap pot, they buy a couple kg of paraffin wax for F all vs a fancy commercial wax, they buy 3 cheap chains to run on rotation - throwing on a wax drip post any wet ride ready for the next day - and just re wax all three chains at once, or pop one in post wet ride so its protected and pop another ready to go on.
Multiple chains is also heavily favored by those with expensive bits, as ensuring your get 2 or 3 chains through a $700 sram red cassette vs potentially just one chain has a lot of appeal, as well as greatly minimizing wear to $2k integrated power meter chain rings!
Hey Adam, a question I am constantly thinking about: Would you still recommend Wax based Lubricants for long term bicycle travelling - like crossing continents for months and months on the road and experiencing ALL type of weather? Hot melt difficult - Drip Wax maybe🥴 Thanks a lot for your comment…
Ah things like that it gets difficult for sure. It is typically always great to start waxed still, but then i would move to something like Smoove if it was lot of offroad - Smoove is very long lasting and holds up well in a lot of conditions, or synergetic, synerg-E, rex black diamond if road as again they are very long lasting per treatment. Over time there is going to be no way to stop the "lubricant" running in the chain from becoming abrasive, especially as soon as caught in a wet ride - things will just never be the same. Depending on how far one is riding, and what they want the drivetrain to be going like, options such as;
Ever X check point (major town) - duck to a bike store and get them to do a quick solvent reset blast of chain and re lube with your lube, or - depending on chain running (ie if not too expensive) - At x point get a fresh chain on, get LBS to blast out the factory grease and put your chosen lube on.
If its big road trip and get luck with conditions a top lubricant even with little to no maintenance will still be great after 2 or 3k km. Or if conditions harsh you could quickly be riding a chain thats gone from 5w loss to 10w + loss and so every pedal stroke 5w of energy is going into wearing through your chain. If i couldnt effectively reset - for my own riding pleasure, at some point i would just go fresh...
@ Thanks a lot all makes sense!
Adam, I’m curious as to the surface finish of various chains both by manufacturer and group level. Immersive waxing is great IMO however the quality of surface treatment/micro finish and it’s ability to hold a lubricant longer should come into play ie micro finish of internal combustion engine cylinders. If too smooth lubricants will be quickly displaced, too rough and excess wear.
Have you taken this into account? Would love to see info on this to which manufacturers offer the best value.
yes great point - alas mostly no we dont have the ability to objectively see this, but we do know from experience some chains / brands lubricant treatment lifespans appear clearly lesser than others - however what part chain metal and what part their other treatments such as low friction coating used - we cant be sure.
Typically shimano seem to have lesser lifespan (ie waxers find treatments feel and sound drier more quickly - we think due to siltec treatment) and most reported is KMC chains which can feel / sound dry really quickly for some. Most other brands wax lifespan is very groovy.
@ thx for the response. As an addendum to my question, I get excellent mileage from both my waxed Ultegra and KMC chains (2 different bikes) however side plate wear seems advanced on the Ultegra (likely due to a softer side plate metal?) affecting shifting some before the chain wear guagechecks no go.
Your research is valued. Thanks.
@@awesomexistence it is generally rare for lateral wear and thus too much side flex - to reach the point where it affects shifting before chain reaches recommended elongation wear. Generally the only cases where this occurs are when a) chain is taken well past 0.5 wear so lateral wear can reach a point where - along with now worn cogs and pulleys - shifting is affected or b) Cyclist spends a lot of their cycling time on high chain line angles - especially in mtb / gravel where abrasive dust is involved.
The parts are not softer. The rollers are hardened, the link plates are very high quality hard wearing steel etc. On straighter chain line angles, there is very little load on side of roller to inner link plate, inner link plate to outer link plate etc, and so very very low wear rate vs main load surfaces that cause elongation wear. these surfaces are progressively loaded up more on high chain line angles, but again will still only be taking a small fraction of the load vs main load surfaces that are taking the bulk of your pedalling force to propel you forwards. hence why generally it is difficult to cause sufficient lateral wear in a chain by the time it reaches recommended 0.5% elongation wear mark. It happens, but its rare.
If you are not in either of the above categories, i would investigate other aspects that might be causing less than awesome shifting. Chain length correct? B-tension Correct? Pulleys not worn? Indexing correct? chain installed correct way (shimano chains are directional - writing must face out or shifting is decently affected as they are only chamfered on one side for shifting) etc etc.
I've been immersive waxing for close to 3 years now. I'm up to eight 12 speed chains and five 11 speed chains (riding 12sp almost exclusively) so I can go ~6 weeks between waxings. Do I need to eventually dump the wax at a point because of contamination?
98% of my riding is in dry conditions and I've just been adding to the wax in my cheap ultrasonic cleaner. I usually wipe the chains off but sometimes just drop them in the Molten Speed Wax. I've dropped my wax interval under 300km in most instances since it is so easy.
I would say no..youre introducing so little dirt into the pot...and youre adding fresh wax sometimes..i cant see it affecting lifespan where you would notice
Hey psb - yes overtime the wax will become more and more contaminated. You are going to be bringing very little contamination in each re wax, but it does add up over many re waxings and many thousands of kms. Overtime the wax treatment lifespan will reduce, and the wear rates increase etc.
General rule of thumb for dry road riding is to replace to fresh wax approx every 10,000 to 15,000km - which is a long time, and makes wax lubricant cost much lower than the majority of drip lubricants for the same distance, before factoring in wear rate savings. Frequent harsh conditions riding one should replace sooner depending on how often, how harsh etc. Most do start to notice wax treatments not lasting like they used to, or simply when fill level is getting low and time for a fresh lot - thats a good time to melt, decant out, wipe pot clean, fresh wax in.
WE WANT MORE CHAIN TESTS!! The latest Sram Red E1 & the 12s YBN Flattop!! 😺
I know!!! I want more chain tests too! but far out, that is all on the back burner atm as the lubricant testing is just taking all resources and then some. However...... we know enough (and we have ceramic speed data for efficiency on a number of chains) - that it is highly likely the red e1 will be MUCH longer lasting than the ybn due to their unbeatable longevity of HARDCHROME, but it will be notably slower.
So the general advice on those wont change from before - train on sram, race on YBN - the YBN flat top was blindingly fast in CS testing - one of the fastest chains tested. Sram chains to date have never, ever been fast.
What a rude way to ask for free test data.
@ oh i didnt know CS had tested the YBN flat top!! Do you have a link?
@@SamuelBlackMetalRider Its not updated on the chain efficiency chart yet - just know though that its a 10/10 for efficiency :). Hoping to stock soon, been a bit of delay getting them.
@@SamuelBlackMetalRider not yet - i havent updated this one on the chain test chart just yet but i will do soon (when i can actually get stock! - and it will have to be estimated wear life as i havent had a chance to test. But yeah, its fast! :))
So Adam I asked a few times. I did a cyclocross race last week and with in 1 lap the bike ,chain , and me was covered in thick mud. Knowing weather conditions I had already de greased chain. Added my super secret chain lube 2 coats 12 hrs apart and allowed to dry for 24hrs. I have also been using tru tension all weather lube for drier races or not mudders. What would u recommend is best out of these lubes for cx racing. I power wash bike after every race then chain removed into heavy degreaser so it’s spotless when put back on to race. See other racers using 3in1 oil and the famous wd40 before start. Would these oil cope with harsh treatments if only for 1hr race?
Hey Adam! Ooooh full mudder cx races are one of the most extreme lubricant challenges!! WD40 will be friggin terrible hahaha - poor cyclists and chains using that option. 3 in 1 will also be very bad. Anything light like those - the majority of the product will be quickly washed out and just a very thin film remaining, that will then be attacked by the abrasive mud the water is dragging in - and very quickly what one will be using as lubricant is just water and mud. This is easily verified by good chain wear checking before and after - i have seen chain wear of 0.2% pre and post ONE CX RACE with some chains when i did some fun testing on this some seasons ago, and likely it was higher if i could have cleaned their chains pre measure as mud and crap would have been giving a low reading.
But - people CAN assess their chosen lubricants performance in such conditions by accurately seeing how they hold up by doing accurate wear checking with a digital caliber etc.
For you - out of ss drip and TTAW for such riding, i would go TTAW. However if you were going to be resetting chain anyway (and if you are not immersive waxing) - i would use Smoove - that is really high performing and hangs on really well . It is a bit of a tough clean - but its strength is that it is so hard to get off the chain - it stays there really well. For a full mudder race you will still want to double coat and follow the advanced application instructions thoroughly to negate as best you can any penetration issues. But based on that...... honestly for such racing - an IM wax chain really is so much easier. The top IM waxes have great longevity as they are a solid coating of 100% lubricant, no penetration issues, no double coating, and VASTLY easier to reset post event - boiling water flush rinses, dry, re wax - boom ready for next race.
But yep, if not IM waxing - for normal CX events SS drip, UFO, TTAW - all great as they are easy to apply, easy to reset. If expecting the event to be a full mudder - double heavy coating of smoove (or immersive is best - pop the nozzle out of bottle, pour into a small clip lock container with chain swish around, flip chain over and repeat ensure all of chain has been fully submerged whilst swishing (honestly easier with 2 bottles...smoove is pretty cheap overall) - remove and hang chain to set and wipe excess from outside, and then use a small funnel to pour back into bottles and put nozzles back in (again... IM waxing is easier.....but an immersive smoove application is AWESOME for long and or harsh conditions events).
To be honest, it took a while to get my head around wax in wet/winter, not that summers are dry here. The fact that there seems to be a steep drop off in wax not performing that is noticeable is the thing that made me question it before. Mainly what if the reapplication mark is mid work day suddenly (use wax on a bike i use for courier job). Maybe with wet lubes the drop off is a little less steep, but just not as noticeable. For me the thing i now learned is to really count the kilometers using an app and strava data, to really prevent that sharp falloff to happen mid workday and having to finish the day grinding away a dry chain. Mixed conditions is still tough though. Freshly reset chain, I tend to not drip or immerse after just a 70 km or so wet day, just wipe the chain dry. But have gotten some rust the next morning a few times doing that, especially when coming home in a shower so the chain didn't get to air dry much. So I'll rethink that now.
why dry the chain after the boiling water flush rinse? The water should just evaporate during the hot waxing or not?
Water is heavier than wax and may pool in your hot pot. Your wax shouldn't be at 100C, so you'll be below the boiling point of water. So the water may not escape the wax. Either way, probably better to take the extra few minutes to start with a dry chain. I put mine in the sun after blowing it off with compressed air. If not an option for you, then toss it in the toaster oven on low. Your wife or housemate will LOVE it!!!
I place the chain wet on top of the wax while the wax is still cold. I turn the wax on and walk away. I expect that the chain is dry by the time it's in the melted wax. Life is too short to lose time with drying your chain.
@@dudeonbike800water in the pot is a good way to get rid of impurities. Although I'm curious if this method removes the additives as well.
I don't use a boiling water rinse, I just scrub the chain through a dry microfibre cloth to remove the dirty surface wax. Run the chain through the cloth in both directions, then wax as normal.
The chain just bubbles for a while for me as the water tries to escape. I will definitely switch to the double bowl methot, as I had enough of dry the chain as much and fast as possible.
I left a bike out in sun & rain for 9 months the outer bits of the 9 speed chain had rust on it. But was still moving freely
After a wet ride i dry my chain with micro fibre and hair dryer then give it a alcohol spray wipe and top up with super secret will do this a few times before a rewax. Doing this i have had no issues with rust, my question is how much chain life am i sacrificing by not doing a rewax and flushing any grit that has entered in the wet ride?
Thats an impossible question for anyone to answer - ie how dirty are the roads (amount of crap, type of crap and how abrasive that is), your avg power etc etc. The best thing would be to track chain wear closely, as well as how many kms to 0.5 or near 0.5% wear. Then you can start to gauge how thats working.
Just the golden rule is to reset always post wet ride if practical to do so. Sometimes (rarely) on my workhorse mtb that i use for most winter training - i finish a ride and then its quick shower and dashing off to mini me sport and then we have one of his friends bday parties and then we have a dinner catch up and im riding it the next day. So worst case when i get back i just wipe chain dry, whack on some wax lube - takes me probs 30 secs. its protected from rust and it will be ok next day. But the workhorse bike has a GX cassette and chain cost is not too terrible.
on my good mtb - the chain is $250 and the cassette is $1100. That chain is being whipped into the wax pot no matter what minimum - i will find the extra few mins to do that.
But if i was on oil..... and had done wet ride on my good stuff.... fark the job is harder to get that reset so im not running grinding paste.
The best way to always relate whats happening is to think what if i had no seals on my wheel and bb bearings. Post this ride would they be ok or would they be running with damaging shite in them if i dont reset them and just throw a bit more lube at them. but remember for your chain it is doing so much more work, under much more load, and much more exposed - so whatever the worry for your bearings if they had no seals, 10x that for you chain wear.
You need to speak to Josh at Silca. He’s just put out a video suggesting that you tip a third of a bottle of Silca oil into your wax pot to stop your chain going rusty 😂! How to convert your expensive wax AND oil into a grinding paste. It’s even more bonkers than Nick at Cade media.
I think Josh’s suggestion is after testing by Visma and Perdue
@ Just name-dropping unless he shares the details of testing protocols etc. Visma have full time mechanics and don’t pay for their drive trains when they wear out.
How so? What specifically is your counter point? Why would 20ml of grade 5 synthetic oil into a top wax turn that wax into a grinding paste? Its level of contamination pick up will be higher than not having that in the wax, but still a different league lower than running oil / wet lube, AND when you re wax you reset brilliantly without faffing with solvents and degreasers.
So what is behind your point you are stating as fact that it will turn the wax into a grinding paste? Have you tested this already and have wear data to go against Josh's test data and field testing?
Or are you again just throwing baseless shite around?
If you wish to counter a point - it is normal to do so basing your counter point on actual information to the same / similar level as what has been presented to you. If you cannot do this, you do not have a counter point. You perhaps have a question. It would be valid for you to have asked - Would adding synergetic to my wax turn it into a grinding paste? I would have answered with the information josh has presented, as well as the information i just presented above. But instead, as is your style - you make a statement - IT WILL TURN WAX into a grinding paste - and you have absolutely nothing to base that statement on.
Please stop acting like this. If you havent figured it out, all you are doing is showing you have a baseless bias against. Mostly people will see a comment from you and instantly know it is going to be more baseless rubbish. Why as grown adult would you want this. Why wouldn't you want to be able to have an intelligent discussion with people where your input and information is respected. You are in control of making that happen.
If you wish to counter any specific point - do so based on actual information. If not , then raise that point as a question - not a statement of fact based on nothing, as that is i am sorry to say, simply a way to make yourself look silly -because doing such is frankly dumb. Dont be dumb if you are not dumb.
Be against waxing, be against ZFC information, be against silca information - all groovy if you base that on something ACTUAL - not this crap coming in so far. Pls raise your level if you want to remain commenting on ZFC. I give a lot of leeway, but there will come a point where if someone continually just throws shite around every time - their comments will be hidden - ZFC channel is not to be a cesspool of shite in the comments section, but a place for genuine questions and input. There are plenty of other channels out there if all you like to do is take the equivalent of a dump from your keyboard.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 1. The reason I suggested that adding oil to wax will turn it into a grinding paste is because, in Josh’s own words “the downside obviously of adding oil to this is the softening of the wax dirt will stick a little bit better”. What happens when you add dirt to your drivetrain lubricant? It becomes a grinding paste, as you have said yourself hundreds of times. How damaging that is, with (at one extreme) solid wax and (at the other) oil or factory grease, is only a question of degree and how far you ride on it. Josh’s “hack” is somewhere in between, but nearer the solid wax end.
2. We can agree that, after heavy rain you should wipe/rinse off the water and dirt and rewax. But what happens then if you don’t ride in the rain for a while? You’ll probably carry on cycling with your new (winter) wax plus oil mix, picking up more and more dirt that gets ground into the chain. I agree that one ride with a slightly sticky chain in the rain won’t do much damage, but what about 250km on an increasingly dirty chain (compared with a solid wax reset)? Do you see the problem?
3. Josh said “it's still way better than just a pure wet lube or even some of the products out there on the market you think of like a Squirt or a Smoove um you know those products are in the 20 to 30% oil you're probably here adding something more like you know 3 to 5% oil so it is tackier than pure hot wax”.
4. You asked me “Have you tested this already and have wear data to go against Josh's test data and field testing? ….. If you wish to counter a point - it is normal to do so basing your counter point on actual information to the same / similar level as what has been presented to you. If you cannot do this, you do not have a counter point”.
5. No. I haven’t tested it, but where is Josh’s test data and field testing data? Have you seen it? Where does he get the information that Squirt and Smoove are 20 to 30% oil? You criticise others for not publishing their test protocols and test data. Why not in this case? If GCN or Cade media had come up with this “hack”, I suspect you’d have been a bit more sceptical.
6. You then say “Please stop acting like this. If you havent figured it out, all you are doing is showing you have a baseless bias against.” Baseless bias against what?
7. You continue “Mostly people will see a comment from you and instantly know it is going to be more baseless rubbish”. I think you are muddling me up with someone else. The only comments I have made on your channel are pro waxing and defending you against Hambini’s and Durian’s attacks on you. How/where did you form this idea of me?
8. There then follows a 200 word rant against me, suggesting that I am “against ZFC information”, concluding with the words “There are plenty of other channels out there if all you like to do is take the equivalent of a dump from your keyboard”. I like your channel. I have five bikes, all with immersive wax drive trains. I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Goodness me, I just made some critical comments about Silca’s video and you react like this?
@@infocuslearning Infocus even just the start of your reply - honestly what is going on - cannot you not see just the basic argument logic fails. Yes josh says dirt will stick a little better. But the baseline comparison is the normal immersive wax - for which dirt sticks barely at all. So sticking a little better from a baseline of barely at all is hardly going to equal grinding paste. And with just a moments thought you would know this, obviously. As if IM wax with a bit of synergetic is going to act like a wet lube etc. And yet from this you launch your previous comment attack, and start rebuttal on this one. How can we have any level of intelligent discussion when you are acting like this?
Re point 2 - remember the comparison for IM waxing is vs drip lubes. So if the synergetic + wax picks up a little more dirt in normal riding - you are still resetting chain contamination extremely well every re wax as you are putting the chain in hundreds of ml of lubricant every re lube. Vs putting circa 3 to 5ml on a chain over 100 links long, so around 0.03 to 0.05ml of new lube going on top of old contaminated lubricant. This is one of the biggest reasons why IM waxing wins all the time re lowest wear as it easily keeps the lubricant on the chain lower friction. Again a more rapid increase in contamination in the wax from extremely low to something a little higher than extremely low does not suddenly mean it is now highly abrasive, or anything like what happens to those using drip lube only.
Re 3 - i dont get what point you are trying to make
Re 4 - Again, what point are you trying to make. YOU made a STATEMENT that the wax with synergetic would be grinding paste - based on nothing - not your own riding, and certainly not logic. It is YOUR statement, YOU are the one that should be backing it. I can counter it with simple logic. Again you are just lost here in your thinking
Re 5 - I am not sure if josh has his own control test data around increased contamination. It looks like the focus of the testing thus far has been around increased longevity in wet conditions - and yes it will be good to get some data on this as i am not sure when i can fit this testing in. For contamination gathering increase vs baseline - its difficult, you need a good contamination addition protocol for a start, and then long term testing. I dont think they have tests that go for thousands of kms per test like ZFC as it is extremely time consuming. So there are times where they can go ok we see an increase in longevity in wet conditions, but as the wax now has oil in it, it will pick up more dirt vs wax sans oil in it.
Squirt and smoove are fairly well known and tested by competitors like silca and others as they are good competitors in the space, and the wax base relatively well known and analyzed.
I expect the full test protocol with purdue will be out in due time. I know a fair bit about it from discussion with josh, hence i am not concerned about the lack of open publishing of it at this time - it is all part of PHD thesis, so it is private until post his doctorate as it is his thesis and testing that he is working with Silca.
No i would not have been sceptical of cade with any hack / tip like this. Why would i be? I am not carte blanche against cade. I am carte blanch about bad information in this space, especially when it is pumped out based on no actual knowledge or experience. Considering i take the time to properly explain each and every point i counter on anything or anyone - you should know by now that i counter or promote any information point on its merits, and this enables people to also counter any of my information specifically as well. Something i wish you would actually do.
Re 6, 7 , 8 - I thought you have been you have a baseless bias against ZFC / me / anything and everything i say or do and that this has been going on for a bit now. However if i have your comment name confused with someone else i will apologize profusely - i deal with a lot of comments, and i have a number of serial attackers like controversial cyclist, illegal immigrant etc etc. I will try to find a way to load up your comments and check - but if i have you confused with another ID with this - my apologies are very deep and sincere.
So it is in that context that i come down hard on "critical comments on silca video" - if they are just (and i am sorry - but just mocking silca information based on your own thoughts that adding some synergetic will turn HM wax to a grinding paste......) - it very much fit the profile of one of the serial attackers mocking all good information in the waxing and chain lubrication space based on illogical BS. Such people work against good dialogue, discussion, debate and good information.
Again - if you had a concern, then you should have phrased that as a question "Hey adam i am concerned, wouldnt adding some oil to wax cause X", and then i would answer accordingly, and if you wish you could raise further concern if the answer didnt sit right and why it doesnt sit right etc. Your statement came across as an attack - as in obviously doing this tip by silca is ridiculous, its going to be a griding paste, and mocking it. I feel strongly you should not do such unless you have the backing for your statement, if not - you should raise it as a question and concern.
Been in the gym? 💪🏼
Sort of...... i have adjustable dumbells and barbells and kettle bells and chin up bar and few other things - as i age i have been upping the strength work to maintain muscle mass, strength and bone strength (especially as a mtb rider / racer im always going to be eating dirt / rocks sooner or later). I should have taken measurements - im not aiming to put on more muscle just maintain, but some tops dont really fit any more.... but maybe that is also the extra snacking i like to do as well! :)
@ good work 💪🏼 can’t go wrong with chucking some weights around.
P.S. I blame clothes feeling tighter on the tumble dryer
@@saracen888 Ha, i like it! Yeah i shld get another Dex scan.... last one was ages ago.... but probs an annual tracking of muscle, fat and bone density not a bad thing to ensure doing the right stuff to stay a little robust now im in my 50's..... Good field in master 5 this year despite some scratchings but Masters 6 had two entries, masters 7 had one etc - it seems there is a point it gets difficult to race mtb - need to stave that off. There are two guys in m8 who are AMAZING - showing that it absolutely can be done, so i want to be like them when i grow up :)
I only roll with the ZFC way, every other media outlet is just noise
Do you guys keep the wax pot on all the time? The reason I ask is that it takes a few hours to liquify in my crockpot and I'm hearing here that it's taking 10 minutes to reset chains
My slow cooker is on only when needed. My wax takes about 2 hours to melt. The 10 minutes will be the time taken handling a chain. This includes taking it off the bike / threading onto the swishing tool , turning on the pot / re-waxing , hanging up to drip / letting the wax set , breaking the wax / chain link bonds and re-installing on the bike. It helps to re-wax multiple chains in one waxing session. To avoid hot wax dripping in unintended places it's best to re-wax them one at a time , especially if your using a small pot e.g. 1.5 Litre capacity.
its about 10 mins actual labour time if doing a boiling water reset post a harsh wet ride, otherwise its about 3 to 4 mins labour time. Same as washing machine, you can do other fun stuff whilst wax is melting. A few hours is pretty long, i think some slow cookers on low are really slow, it may be worth trying it on high, and set a time to check it after 45 mins etc as its possible if left for hours on high it could get too hot.
Normally for me doing a re wax - i get back from a ride, pop chain off, onto swisher, into pot - turn pot on. Go have shower, eat lunch or a snack & a cuppa - pop stuff in the wash - give the bike a quick wipe down, and typically by around then the chain is ready to be swished and hang to set, and boom after that its just popping back on before next ride. I genuinely dont know any faster or labour time easier method than IM waxing like this to have an always clean low friction super low wear chain and drivetrain. All other options to try to remotely compete with the level of cleanliness and low wear of the above takes much longer, and typically has solvents to faff with and dispose of.
@dawn_rider Thank for the clarification. I guess I'm just a victim of me taking thing too literally.
I don't know the size of my pot, but have a glass bowl inside with the good wax in it and cheap wax to surround it.
@@zerofrictioncycling992Thanks
I used to enjoy Francis Cade until his channel was hijacked by Jimmi and his wife. They are so amateurish and talk nonsense a lot of the time. I still enjoy the Francis videos when he is on an adventure.
Hi Adam, some time ago you did a few tests of trying to use a smaller container surrounded by water within an ultrasonic machine, in order to limit the solvent usage, but it wasn't particularly successful.
From memory the containers you tried were solid sided and the thought process was that some of the energy of the ultrasonic waves was being absorbed by the container rather than getting to where it is needed.
Have you tried with a really thin walled container like a zip lock bag or similar? Perhaps that might absorb less energy? Maybe I missed it.
Cheers,
Cameron
Hey Cameron! Yes correct - i did do some demonstration video as well (i think - ultrasonic like a boss vid) - in general there will be very low ultrasonic power doing this. Many solvents actually have pretty low cavitation power to begin with, and putting in a glass container surrounded by water - you now also have different viscosity liquids which hinders further. Putting in any thickness of plastic does also reduce drastically. A very thin plastic bag wont really hinder much, but overall - the path is less optimal thats for sure.
If one wishes to use water to reduce amount of cleaning solution - it really helps to a) use an aqueous solution (which is mostly proper ultrasonic solutions) and to use a glass container. Plastic bag can work but they may also rupture.
The best way to know if its working is simply to do the foil test demonstrated. If in 1 min there is significant damage to the foil, then yeehaa - strong cavitation and ultrasonic cleaning. Little to no damage, one is not getting much ultrasonic action going on and its not working well enough to bother faffing with US cleaning with that method - or you need to do a lot of repeat long runs to get anywhere.
Okay, so I’m doing something that most will cringe about but it works for me: I love the Silca immersion wax and am using it on my good bikes since March this year and I intend on sticking with it all year around, topping it up with Super Secret in between at times. On the commuter (I commute 200-300 km per week), I use the old chain from the good bike which is already at 0.5, it basically gets a second life (cringe) and is a chain from before I started waxing on the good bikes (when I was still using Squirt for all bikes). Also, I still use Squirt for the commuter bike chain (cringe) - I run it for another 5,000 km until it’s at 0.75, then that chain goes into the bin. I only have two chains left for the commuter and am wondering whether to switch to immersion waxing once I have to install a new chain.
Ha dont worry, i have heard oh so much worse in my time ! :) If you arent concerned with wear, running, cleanliness etc on commuter bike and that path is working, then its not a wrong path. I do still think that you will be wearing through cog and ring teeth going that path, and so depending on cost and riding pleasure levels - cost of replacing those post 2nd life chain vs if you went new chains on wax to 0.5%.
If you get a hardwearing chain/s - like link glide lg500 - and run a couple on rotation on immersive wax - wow wow wow that is a long term relationship for those chains and you DT parts. Popular is two chains on rotation so run one for one week and then swap. If you get caught on a wet commute and no time to re wax that chain - then wipe dry, add a good coating of SS drip for the next day and just do that as needed to get to weekend for chain swap.
But two hardy chains on rotation like that for commuting - that is going to see you through for such a long time, and it will be clean, and running lovely (and if needed, help you with any commuter cup segments! :))
Do Cade Media value high performance? High performance equipment, cycling, career and lifestyle?
I think so, they do cover a broad range of topics and i imagine they want their audience to be a very broad range including lots who have nice bikes and groupsets. As such i do find it perplexing that the one area that will save their audience the most money each year BY FAR as it is the part working like a bat out of hell and completely exposed to all contamination - is one's chain lubricant.
Nick just really seems to come from a place of he has never, ever, every tracked chain wear kms to lubricant - so if a lubricant path rips through chain, its running like meh or crap after a few thousand kms, and when you replace chain after 5ish thousand kms and need a new cassette and have made good inroads into your chain rings as well - he doesnt blink at that - that's all good an normal.
Maybe he is too used to paying w/sale, or getting free stuff, and doesnt ride high end stuff. He has no concept of what it means to many cyclists to get 10,000km + of perfect low friction super clean riding on expensive chains, cassttes and chain rings and then replace JUST THE CHAIN and repeat, and how much money this saves.
Not everyone who buys an expensive bike with a top tier groupset is rolling in it, and that the cost of replacing DT components is inconsequential. There has been a big increase in % of cyclists buying their bikes on finance. So they are paying interest on a 10k+ loan. And then having to spend hundreds or over 1k in a short time to replace chain and cassette due to running a shite lube (or a lube that quickly becomes a grinding paste due to riding conditions and the advice from a high profile mechanic is just pop more lube on) - its really not great.
I am sure at heart Cade would like that he information they provide to their audience, when followed, gives their audience a great experience. Simply advice in this area will not. Advice that will absolutely have people needing to replace DT components post winter vs have a great DT at end of winter, basically they are actively advising against how to have a great DT come winters end, and that is just really poor and they should do better.
I will never forget one of my customers when i had the workshop going. He had saved for a long time to buy his dream bike with a dura ace groupset. He was running a poor lube (which of course he thought was a great lube cos thats what the bike shop recommended). When he brought the bike to me he had ridden the bike 3000km (thanks to strava making this easy). Chain was at 1.5% wear. He needed new chain, new cassette, and new chain rings. This was high hundreds of bucks. He was literally crestfallen, and he was genuinely stressed about how to break that news to his partner. It wasnt part of the deal buying that bike that it would cost the same as a Ferrari to run.
Thankfully, waxed life after that, and its been yeehaa. But this is part of my personal passion re focus in this area. I dont think CADE get it AT ALL that the above will be happening to cyclists all over the world to some level. I am lucky i have a good discretionary budget for cycling spend, but even still - there are a heck of lot of fun things i have bought that i would not have had the clearance to buy if those $$ had had to be spend constantly buying new chains, cassettes and chain rings.
I used silicone spray on my derailleur pivots and my cassetes are either alloy or coated steel so rust isn't an option.
Oh man, watching the clip of him talking is embarrassing.
I am shocked at how Francis could get such a simple concept wrong . I have emailed him .
Adam is well intentioned and trying his best . He is still learning .
I guess that drip-on wax can be washed away as I guess (again) that the emulgeator don't evaporate. I will try it with squirt, silca and decathlon lubes. It is not like you pour water on them, and they gone, but need to rub them a bit. However, saying that immersive wax can be washed away with water sounds like that you could wash away a stick of candle with water.
I tried to wash down drip-on wax with water, here are my findings:
Decathlon wax: I was able to totally clean it up from the metal ruler by gently rub it under water. This wax is BS from the very beginning, don't even consider buying it.
Squirt (don't know which one, standard or ebike): I had some initial solubility, but then I just smeared the whole thing on the ruler. I guess it should stay in the chain even in rain
Silca secret wax: It did not stick well to begin with, as it released the ruler by the slightest touch. However, after that I was able to smear it in the same way as the Squirt, so I guess it stays in the chain in wet conditions.
First I dried the drops on my heater, and it resulted in some strange result as well. The Squirt and the Decathlon wax stayed in place, but the Silca wax melted away, and left some black residuals, which may be the additives they are using. Because of that I added one more drops from each wax and let them dry overnight.
FYI--ive seen news where SRAM AXS has had a number of chains snapping at pro cyclocross races this season,,,,,,
Yes thats been really interesting! I havent had a chance to play with tensile test machine for ages, and alas even then i cant yet test chain line angles to put pin riveting to the test. But the chains i tested straight line, sram 12spd eagle were very strong.
It could be any number of things. It could be a bad batch - any poor riveting on any pin will fail relatively easily under load on chain line angles. It could be chain line angles are often fairly extreme due to set up with how outboard chain ring is and cassette range / position. Past the lateral flexibility of the chain this really starts to load up the outer plate trying to be pried off the pins - and this can also just lead to fatigue failure of the rivets - ie its ok for some riding leading up to race, but cracks were starting by race time. it could be riders shift behavior and thinking that its generally best to shift under full pedalling load as much as possible, especially when i want to shift 3 cogs at once for this upcoming mulch hill or hairpin.
Things like this can be really hard for gen pop to ever get to know the story - if it is /was sram chains batch / mfg issue - that will likely be kept under wraps - sram havent exactly been open on some fronts recently. If its set up / rider behavior thats changed, it is unlikely the team or riders will give an update to us on that. It is likely the issue will be solved, but sadly unlikely we will know what it was :(
Of the chains we sell, and we sell A LOT of chains for ybn, sram across road, gravel, eagle and t-type, and shimano - chain failures overall remain very rare, and at least half of the failures we do have reported and checking through things - there is not a repeat failure. only a couple of times in 8 years have we had a rider have multiple chain failures for any brand - and on chatting we do find every time that yes they have a habit of shifting under very high load as standard practice. So at this stage we havent seen any sram chain failures reported for a while now, and hopefully there are no batch issues that will change that as it is a right pain for everyone when a chain fails!
Regarding 7:08, maybe coat the chain with powder , use a fine brush to remove the excess and heat in the air fryer ( not if used for food ) at low temperature ? You may have an issue with powder circulating inside the dryer ? I've read the SDS for the Pinpoint powder and 99% of it by weight is talc ! The data sheet also says ...
" Under normal conditions of use, this product is not expected to create any unusual hazard. This product is not flammable, not reactive, not explosive has no flash point, and poses no special hazards in the presence of fire. "
If it works you will want to do the same for just the powder, just to check that heat alone doesn't change its colour.
Thanks and yep i did try that! I put some on a ybn, worked in with gloved fingers, chucked it in the workshop air fryer for 10 mins at 80c. Still came out pink. Heres me thinking this powder would make it easy hahahaha - apply and if any grease or oil present it would simply nicely show......
alas this little project is proving more difficult to get a nice clear tangible assessment....
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Does any solvent that gives a positive result on its own , when evaporated turn the powder colour back to pink ? It would be helpful to know what causes the colour change and I doubt AGC will tell you. Even if you manage to get the dye into the chain grease, its possible the chemical structures don't exist to make the colour change ?
@@dawn_rider Hmm good point, i will have to do some testing of that too - will try to play more this week!
Honestly, living in Brisbane, I’m always confused about the references to ‘winter’ being so hard. Winter for me means the driest time of year! I’m interested in hearing about what I need to do different with my waxing routine when I get hammered with a summer storm in 30 degree centigrade heat! (I have the same issue with ‘winter gear’ advice - I need warm, not waterproof, and summer rain is the most annoying wrapping myself in plastic just makes me boil alive!).
Also that guy is a bike mechanic, he has a lot of weird opinions about all sorts of things, I just wouldn’t take his opinions at face value.
yeah for chain its really still the same - the issue is the crap the water brings in. Just re lubing - you are not really doing much to get that out. So post wet ride recommended is to always re wax if practical, if not - then wipe chain and re lube with wax compatible drip lube so its protected from rusting and re lubed for next ride, and keep doing this until you can re wax to reset.
The kit challenge is tougher...... If you get cold (need warm) - i guess its still popping on at least some water proof layers like a vest and arm warmers, that are then easily removed. I think you can get waterproof (or resistant) in such - and if they are at least water resistant, then they can be enhanced with nikwax tech wash + water proofing spray. If its not proper waterproof clothing, they wont hold up to a sustained downpour, but they will hold up for a bit.
Ie i have kit that is treated as such - and so if its "showers possible" - and i get caught in a shower - then i have a pretty good chance that it will be ok (and here being usually cooler i can pack a jacket if its not going to be), and then i have proper water proof stuff for if im heading out and its raining solid or going to be raining solid soon enough.
I also do the tech wash and spray on a bunch of my weekend casual wear on my outdoor pants and jacket/s etc - handy for standing in the rain at mini me sports events when the rain is coming in sideways and umbrella not so good. Many parents will have a waterproof jacket but their jeans let them down!!! :)
I had a local riding buddy condemn your practices with chain waxing . Their chain is a mess we had a debate and have now parted ways . Squirt accumulation over time in ther case .
Yeah squirt can honestly be a great option for many - but..... many on either wax drips like squirt, or wet lubes - dont get to know their treatment lifespans for their riding. Apply a wet lube too much / too often / both - you get a black mess. Apply some wax drips like squirt / smoove to much, to often / both - you get quite an excess gunk build up and one that can be a really tough clean. Squirt and smoove applied correctly (the right amount, excess wiped after work in, re apply when needed) - they remain relatively clean for an impressive number of miles. however - they are still a tougher clean when maintenance is needed, and if that is frequently due to wet conditions - they can be a bit of work.
47:22 .... imho Conflict of interest is the main reason Nick is dismissing wax, if everyone used wax he would loose a big chunk, possibly the majority of his sales - chains, fancy chain lube bottles, regularly servicing oily gritty drivetrains and replacing high end components is his bread and butter. Nick can happily spout poorly delivered misinformation as he is only interested in himself.
Def not the majority of work. Tube replacement and tube ups are the leading jobs by a lot