Ok peeps - since a couple of illogical points have kept coming up - lets deal with that and pin this comment to top. So - comments like.... "Even as a layman, it's common knowledge that ceramic is significantly harder than any type of steel. The data you're presenting seems to contradict basic physics and well-established facts." and "He is right - ceramic bearings primary use if for high rpm applications - closer to 100000rpm than 100rpm…" So - if you think that it is that simple regarding relative hardness - then perhaps write to the major bearing mfg like SKF (one of Hambini's favorites) and tell them about that, as obviously they hadn't realised and need you to explain it too them. The fact that major industry bearing manufactures MAKE HYBRID CERAMIC BEARINGS might give you some pause. Why would they make them? Then ask - why would they claim much SUPERIOR wear life vs THEIR OWN STEEL BEARINGS in a like for like comparison and use case. Following on from that - the argument then re only for high speed applications - says who, and why? why would a bearing capable of outstanding lifespan and performance at 10,000 rpm suddenly have an issue at 90 rpm? If a bearing is having an outstanding lifespan at 10,000 rpm - that is clocking up a lot of revolutions. It takes a long time at 90rpm to clock up the same. So the two arguments coming through together make zero sense. Both HC are not a good bearing because Duh - the ceramic balls are harder, and oh also they are only suitable for high rpm - it is nonsensical. By that logic, the high rpm would take the bearing through its wear life in extremely short order as it is ripping through its cycle life. So then why would they be made? they cost more to make, and have a shorter lifespans because Duh, ceramic harder than steel dummy! The fact that they are made, and are made with claims of superior wear life, by leading industry mfg who make both HC and steel..... If you have found yourself in the above camp - i doubt you have even watched the video, and are commenting based on Hambini's information - for which you should then watch this video. Understand the content you are actually commenting on will be really helpful for you vs making a nonsensical illogical argument. And after this if you still dont believe me, email SKF then and let them know ceramic is harder than steel, your knowledge is obviously needed!
There is a relationship between friction and design rotational speed, since friction is heat, and making any bearing run hot well you're going to start degrading the grease and you're going to have fit issues, elevated temperature is always trouble. So if you have an actual high-speed bearing, it may under the circumstances just be what you're looking for for low-loss low-speed. The argument that materials should be matched and it's better than being hard... well that can be true but with the limitation that obviously nobody suggests using bearings made from chewing gum or even a soft metal Because they won't be able to stand up to the radial load. Plus in a bicycle you have the problem of ingress of harder material from the outside, all the shielding only does so much, and it should make a difference whether the ingress can be crushed and displaced by the bearing, or whether it ends up embedding itself or inducing permanent gouging. I don't know how much of a role that plays, but if lived experiences of cyclists are any indication, it just might?
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 They don't teach you not to throw ad hominems around? Then again if you can't tell my writing style from a machine, you can't be helped.
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 have you even watched the video? i show you information from SKF, which is not difficult to find, nor is other information from major industry players on hybrid ceramic vs steel. It must have been a quick google indeed. In this area i dont have "expertise" - i have a basic working knowledge. And that basic working knowledge is enough to destroy the supposed the bearing experts BS, because quite simply - it is BS. And it is enough to properly correct instances like your comment, where you havent even watched the video, and so are commenting off literally zero knowledge and missing a basic logic fail. If you are going to have input on this channel, please make it input that contributes something. I do not mean to sound harsh, but if you post utter rubbish that could mislead others who read it, i will correct it, and correct it strongly. If you wish to counter my correction - then do so - again - specifically with counter KNOWLEDGE - not demonstrating zero knowledge and logic fails. And it seems very clear from numerous comments now you are not even watching the video's you are putting counter comments on as they make no sense to anyone who has actually watched the information presented - doing this is just disrespectful. I can't fathom how / why people do this.
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 Im sorry but even if SKF dont make any for cycling - what does that mean to you? Many other industry mfg do - as we have gone through re schaeffler - another of Hambini's preffered brands for steel. My point - obviously - is they HC are a KNOWN & proven superior bearing for numerous applications, providing both greater efficiency and much longer lifespan. It is PROVEN AND KNOWN that many mfg easily know how to make sufficiently hardened races for HC bearings. IF they are not suitable for cycling - then we would for sure know about it by now. And we do know about it by now, and we know that quality options offer superior efficiency and lifespan vs steel - it mostly comes down to is it worth spending multiple times the money for these benefits if quality steel will do all one needs - again that is a separate discussion. IF hambini wishes to present that due to vibration and shock they are not suitable for cycling - then he needs to substantiate that. We have a baseline from industry (and again - it is by no means just skf claiming much longer lifespan, it is easily found for many industry mfg) that they are say 4x longer lifespan than steel (or even say just 3x as in the spreader bearing study shown). Then from that baseline - X vibration and X shock from cycling use would = what reduction in effective lifespan from that baseline? Vibration is quite a range and spectrum (frequency and amplitude) - the levels of both will impact lifespan of a bearing by X - a huge factor in that is the bearings own load ratings. ie - the small 6802 size bearings in a small hub such as a dt180, with a 100kg rider, who often rides shit roads - the lifespan impact on those bearings will be......??? Maybe they are only double the lifespan vs steel. What if they are much larger such as 6902 bearings, and the rider weighs 75kg, and rides "normal" roads. Maybe the impact is too small to be ever objectively measured? Then take large 6806 bearings, in the much lower vs hubs vibration and shock load of a bottom bracket. What impact on their lifespan does this application have? A reduction for 3x or 4x to 2.99x or 3.99x? So if he wants to claim - outright - UNSUITABLE - so cycling use takes a bearing with a 3 to 4x longer lifespan in other use cases such as a motor - then HE needs to substantiate that cycling reduces this all the way down to it now having 1/10th the effective lifespan of steel - according to his testing this was the cross over point in friction for HC vs steel and it kept going worse and worse after that. And that was in a BB test. How on earth has he tested a 6806 bearing, which in "normal" applications will have a 3 to 4x lifespan vs steel, and managed to get that to change to 1/10th - due to shock and vibration. Which we have no idea if or how he has even introduced into his testing, and honestly considering the 0.01w accuracy claimed measures - seems extremely unlikely to have been done. The level of shock and vibration to try to achieve this in a quality HC bearing would be beyond, and it would be such that it would absolutely impact the steel bearing lifespan as well. Considering we seen small HC bearings like 6802, in wheel hubs - carrying the weight of the rider zooming down the road or trails and all the vibration and shock this may bring, and still deliver easily ascertained superior lifespan vs steel - from so much real world use over well over decade - can you not see how unbelievably unlikely it is for Hambini's testing to be correct, or potentially - how has it even taken place, as really no one has any idea how such a result could be obtained. I hope this helps explain and that you can follow that logic path ok. I know you are a H fan, but you can either just be a blind fan and cling on with zero objectivity, or you can get your own mind back again, think properly for yourself, analyze a situation properly based on logic like the above - and use your intellect and energy to help others rather than fight for an obviously wrong cause / person. Pls note in my copy paste of previous comment - i didnt include your handle, many wouldnt have known - i simply copied and pasted that one as it was the text book example - it is obviously (sorry dont mean to be strong worded) - nonsense that ceramic harder so it cant work - when it is so easily checked that as a baseline they have far superior lifespan, obviously the major bearing mfg would not miss something so basic - why would they be made?! Why would any mfg make - at much higher cost - a bearing with a much shorter lifespan cos duh ceramic harder will damage steel... I just struggle how it is not obvious that major bearing mfg would know what they are doing, they make these bearings for a reason, and that reason - as they claim - is superior efficiency AND much superior lifespan. So that is the starting point, and H has to substantiate from his testing how they go from a baseline of 3 to 4x greater lifespan to 1/10th the lifespan. In a bottom bracket use case. It is not only bonkers from basic information and logic standpoint, but we also have so much real world experience to also back that they are superior. Not 1/10th the lifespan. Move from the dark side to the light. Use your energy and intellect for good.
A couple of the above deduced statements do not follow. There are differences between high speed and low speed bearings. Temperature and impact behavior primarily.
Its all in line - a whole lot of friction was maliciously thrown my way, so i have simply been removing it - thoroughly, to lessen the ability of that friction to try and come back in. Plus hopefully people have been able to a) learn a bunch about the ZFC testing, b) learn some actual facts about bearings and c) learn about a person in cycling who is portraying themselves as a hero holding companies to account - which obviously one is not if they are making all the crap up. So i am helping reduce friction for other companies and people who have been maligned by Hambini by helping show what hambini is and what he does.
These videos would not be needed if it were not for Hambini's website attack on Adam. Ultimately, only the absolute Fanboys would go to Hambini's website rather than watch his videos. However, this series of videos is good insurance for Adam in case Hambini decides to go him in TH-cam format. This series of videos is so comprehensive you would have to be dumber than a 5-year-old to make a slanderous video now. I actually predict there will be no anti Zero Friction Cycling video from Hambini now that this extensive catalogue is available. If he were to make that video he would only be opening himself up to his followers finding this catalog. Well played Adam I say
I think you have sufficiently dismantled the scarce creditability that Hambini had. I doubt anyone left who hasn't been convinced is worth the effort of convincing. Keep up the good work
Why wouldn't hambini need to try to 'pull the trigger' on real science, when that is how he has earned his not insubstantial YT income over the years, "I am an expert, listen to me"? Perhaps some REAL science got in the way! hambini is an expert based on what he says about his own background. That would mean that trump would be the better president because he has been a president, himself, before! 🤔 Let's hope that the 'fanboy' clubs don't win THAT upcoming vote. But hey, sheep don't always know they are sheep while they merely follow. Perhaps hambini has more in common with trump than he could possibly admit. Lies, lies, more lies, fairytales and votes?
Thanks, Adam. Very good information. I think you make very good points. Especially about keeping his test protocol secret. Scientific claims must have proof. I do love the idea of hybrid-ceramic bearings having 3-5 times the service life. Like chain waxing, it makes a lot of sense from that point of view. It's all just in up-front costs rather than much earlier replacement costs. It's just harder to make that psychological leap for many people. I don't think humans are wired to think long-term like that. But this kind of information can help overcome that instinct.
Wear is usually quantified by H/E ratio. This was established for metals by Oberle back in the 50s. (Some use H^2/E^3 for more accuracy, but H/E works fine). Ceramic balls have big advantages for high temp/high rpm applications but fewer advantages for low rpm.
Sure. But does the say 4x lifespan at 10,000rpm suddenly not be come that at 90rpm. Does it go from having 4x lifespan to 1/10th lifespan as per hambini's testing, or - like we actually see from real world cycling - still superior to much superior lifespan...
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Different regimes and load conditions - can't really infer anything. One of the biggest issues with ceramics is that they are brittle - when they shatter it's disastrous; whereas steel bearings go out of round but still work. Wear is more than just hardness and it took a long time for even big manufacturers to learn this. Not sure if the bearing manufacturers who specialize in bike bearings have the resources to test and develop these properly.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 A good place to start with wear is: TL Oberle, "Wear of metals", Journal of metals, 1951 and papers that cite this. Also, a good grasp of Hertzian contacts is necessary and that should be available in various texts. Impossible to have a coherent discussion of the topic without knowledge of these basics.
@@carlosflanders518 of course they do, but largely dont as cycling is such a tiny market vs industry. Have you ever heard of someone's Hybrid ceramic bearing shattering? I have seen one case of a ball breaking, ever - and that was in a very small size bearing in a wheel hub for a cheaper brand. The top brands have delivered much longer lifespans vs steel (basically lifetime as best as can tell), and in a Bottom bracket.... 1/10th the lifespan.... vs longer.... I think if you just run things through your circuits re what is happening with hambini's test and data.... and statements...
@@carlosflanders518 A good place to start is what industry claims re hybrid ceramic, industry studies such as the one demonstrated in this vid, and real world experience. If you are saying i cany have coherent discussion based on that information and reality vs a book - i am at a loss for words. Even vs your own comment, where we have covered the distinct lack big mfg (industry) testing re HC and cycling - after studying such material - the first thing anyone is likely to think is this needs to be tested in the application no? And it has been, for well over a decade, very, very successfully. You tell me how did hambini take a bearing, that will give typically 3 to 4x lifespan in many industry applications, put it in a bottom bracket application (not even the much harsher conditions of a wheel hub re shock and vibration, AND into small bearing sizes) - manage to take a 3 to 4x superior lifespan down to a 1/10th effective lifespan for the HC - so the running conditions would have had to have been something pretty unreal, and yet.... the steel bearings were unfazed? Perhaps worry less about a text book for the moment, and look at the situation and information being presented on the merits of that information from both sides. No need to tell me about H/E ratio's by Eberle in 1950 etc - just the basic facts and logic covered here. Tell me a specific point where the information / concern presented by me is incorrect, or correct and same re Hambini information - based on your knowledge. With respect, esoteric references to text books and ratio's adds nothing to no one regarding what is going on here
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 If that's how you judge people and ideas, you're right. But that's like giving a poor rating to a fine restaurant because you enjoy eating Fancy Feast cat food. TH-cam is what the presenter wants it to be, and Adam is getting the views that he wants--so he likely doesn't really care what you think--or whether you like Fancy Feast or not.
I admit I have saw, long time ago, his charts about ceramic balls degrading the metal races and wondered how he tested to get to those numbers. Hopefully Hambini will respond and clear the air. Cheers!
I am sure he will respond, but he absolutely will not clear the air. Get your Hambini wankword bingo card ready, and also a journey of twisted nonsensical incorrect engineering nonsense to try to "explain". His "Fans" will just go along with whatever - not even understanding what he says (ie the attack doc on ZFC - so much of that was just utter nonsensical BS) - just oh he used engineering language and he's and engineer so he must be right. He knows he can easily fool a lot of his audience with such, and so they cannot tell what he has made up and what is just outright contradictory / hypocritical / non sensical - so thats what he does. But when any of his points is put under scrutiny and basic logic - to those with working noodles - it falls apart in a heartbeat
Wether or not you agree with Hambini and/or his way of communicating still doesn´t remove the fact that many others agree with him, people who are totally independent of Hambini and his or any other´s products.
of course they do, they place tacit trust due to him being an "engineer" and he presents in a convincing manner. However anyone with some working neurons when presented with the clear and obvious issues will re think that position, as we are seeing. And even hambini fans - not one to date has been able to contest any point on its merit, not even remotely - the only fall back they have is hey he's an engineer. Watch the little summary re explanation at start of last weeks vid and tell me how my concern is incorrect. I can tell you, just simply and honestly - it is not. The odds that his testing took place are about the same as a comet and a meteor striking the earth at the exact same time in the same place - none of it makes any sense or holds up to the most basic questions and logic, and he refuses to answer any of these basic questions. Once you have a little bit of actual knowledge of HC bearings and what could be done to test them, you will see quite easily that his information and data presented is preposterous, and for sure the reason why the testing is secret is then rather concerning. And then take whats happening here and apply it to an even larger degree to his aero testing. Millions of people are taken advantage of every day by certain people and channels for their own commercial reasons (and other). That doesnt make the people taking advantage of others correct. It makes them something else entirely. So you can either remain in the "i have been and am still fooled" camp, or join us on planet reality. I promise planet reality is the better place to be.
One thing is clear, you are extremely passionate about what you believe to be true. The challenge is, as a self-professed hobbyist, that is evident that you have gained most of your knowledge through internet research, through conversations with manufacturer’s reps, and based your own testing (you cite these as sources in your 27 page document). Your accomplishments are impressive but your defense, technically, is weak as you don’t have citations or references and descend in slander in every preamble and summary. Professional engineers have a responsibilities in most countries, so if you really believe Hambini is misrepresenting facts you could go after him professionally. I don’t think you have much of a case though. Having a vested outcome in a particular result is not a crime, or likely a professional red flag even. Neither is being critical of a test method or technical assertions. Not disclosing your test method, ie having IP is completely normal in many businesses. Responding as you have looks a lot like tit for tat. I’m not taking a side but I find Hambini much more credible after trying to decipher your rambling videos (try not to get mad a me, this is not intended as an insult - it is an observation). I’m an engineer by training, and it’s painful to watch you miss the point on several of his critiques of the test method. In your shoes I’d like to think I’d call it quits now and/ or get some independent expert help, like a professional engineer for example as I can see this getting even more out of control. Hambini is deliberately provocative and he got way under your skin; he hasn’t even published the video yet. Hardly anyone would have seen the blog if you hadn’t posted six videos on it-from a pure business perspective a wait and see approach might have been better. They do say that all PR is good PR though. Sharing my thoughts only to provide my insight having trained and worked in technology for a long a$$ed time. Peace.
Hey Luc - 1) Technically the defense is oh so far from weak. I am not a bearing mfg, sales rep etc. So, seeking basic information (this topic is not technically difficult) from the major bearing mfg websites to support that hybrid ceramic bearings offer greatly increased wear life - i dont know what your concern is here. This is not a published paper needing citation, and due to my typical time issues, i only went through small % of what is easily found by anyone who wants to know more about hybrid ceramic bearings. 2) Yes it should be very clear H is mis representing facts via all of what has been covered here, as well as the tear down of his BS attack document - which i covered each point specifically. 3) There are cases where protecting testing IP is valid. For the reasons outlined in the video, it is bonkers that this is acceptable in this case - however, if you disagree - then thats fine, but wow - that sure would leave things one heck of mess if this was how things were generally done for marketing. Ie - Trek comes out with a new madone, and claims it saves 100w at 40km vs nearest competitor. How tested? Secret. Trust us bro. I try to take all feedback on board of course for improvement, however i will be unable to take on board you finding H more credible vs my "rambling". Yes i may be overly thorough, but at least in that each and every point is covered thoroughly and specifically. I demonstrated countless points from the H attack doc where what he put out was engineering nonsense. And numerous basic facts about the testing he didnt even know / or had incorrect etc. Honestly - from that point - you other suggestions are just - odd. I do not need expert help to cover point by point my own testing vs an obvious maliciously dishonest and wildly inaccurate attack doc. Nor to point out the massive flaws in his HC vs steel information. That has been done easily - just simply thoroughly. No i would not do a wait and see approach - Hopefully a lot more people are aware of it from me doing the video's - that is the point. Not all will agree (like you), but many will and do, and so many more than before now know who hambini is and what he does. Again - and i have covered all this - i am far from alone in receiving dishonest malicious attacks by him. The more of us that stand up to this insidious behaviour, the more know it and him for what it is. if you disagree - thats fine, but at least give the respect to take on board my reasons. I assume my core beliefs and morals around such things might be stronger than yours. You say its been painful to watch me miss the point on several critiques - well why dont you give me those? I have not had one specific counter yet. Its not under my skin - its simply dealing with what is, defending my integrity from dishonest attack (natural and normal), defending the integrity of ZFC (natural and normal) - and it wasnt in my control how much crap he put out needing correction. Now this one is covered so we can all understand that HC bearings do have a purpose, i can in future do videos covering this topic vs steel without it being a mess of people jumping in calling HC snake oil based on H's BS vid.
@@stickler6312 stickler by me taking the time to reply over 9 paragraphs is me giving him the respect to address the points he raised to me in his long comment that he took the time to write. Me stating counter points is not an attack. If i dont agree with some feedback points and advise why, that is not an attack. You may also notice i am responding to A LOT of comments on A LOT of video's. Thus i am typing very quickly - it is possible some aspects of reply may come across strong - but unless i am retorting to a frankly stupid comment (and his was not) - there is again a difference between me smashing out why i disagree vs attacking. Which honestly, i am sure you know, you just cant help yourself re your own comments.
@@infocuslearning oh but he has. many times - albeit he often does it in a strangely vague way. which when we cover his aero testing in the future - his level of secrecy there is next level - what wind tunnel - secret due to department of defence etc etc. This guy has more secrets than the CIA and Mi5
1. I have experienced hybrid ceramic bearings failing prematurely, with the races getting pitted, apparently from the races being too soft vs the harder ceramic balls. This may have been caused by the quality of the hybrid ceramic being too low, and a higher quality bearing may have avoided this problem-my point is that these bearings were sold at a premium price for cycling, and the did not provide premium performance. 2. bearing friction in a bike is mostly down to the type of seals used on the bearings (contact vs. non contact), the grease fill levels, and the type of grease used. If you want low friction, for a race or TT bike, use non contact seals, and be prepared to replace bearings fairly often. If you want long life, use contact seals. The difference in drag is still pretty small, typically less than one watt. DT Swiss uses a non contact seal on the inside of their hub bearings, and a contact seal on the outside, on their steel bearings (fairly high quality TPI bearings made in Taiwan). The current set of DT Swiss hub bearings on my gravel bike have lasted for well over 10,000 miles, still totally smooth. The fact is that ceramic bearings for bikes are a rip off, they may offer a couple of tenths of a watt advantage, but that is not worth the overly inflated prove charged for them. I do not give a #uck about ZFC's petty pissing match with Hambini, who cares, this looks like kids in the playground... The bottom line is that quality steel bearings offer excellent performance, and their price is so low, that one can affordably replace them whenever necessary-if you want the lowest rolling resistance, do not pay the high price for ceramics, use steel bearings with non-contact seals (like NTN LLB), and replace them when they get bad.
Yes for sure - and your experience is also not uncommon. You are correct, it is all about the quality of the races, and sadly - not all brands looking to make sales in this space will bring the quality behind the price tag. What brand bearings were they? Expensive but i can say from long experience some brands that do very hardened races like ceramic speed, enduro xd-15 - their bearings are practically indestructible. Hence ceramic speed lifetime warranty on coated, and 6 years on non coated. re 2 - Yes i will have some great hints and tips to cover for bearings now that i can delve into bearings without risk of triggering Hambini / Hambini fans since Hambini pulled the trigger already - so it is great i no longer need to avoid the topic for worry of being the one to kick off drama. The fact is QUALITY ceramic bearings are not a rip off. The right bearings will outlast how long many will own their bike, and with lower maintenance, and if ride often in harsh conditions - the ability to easily clean and reset the bearing vs replacing. Something i have much experience with in my cycling, and countless others around the world as well. If one only ever rides dry road, change their bikes every 2 to 5 years, dont care about saving a couple watts - for sure - why would one spend the big $$ on quality hybrid ceramic. Again the topic of is the cost worth it vs quality steel is whole discussion in itself. But absolutely for avid racers, and those who ride a lot in harsh conditions - the advantages of HC can be well worth it. This is not a pissing match or playground. Pls remember that a) hambini crafted a massively dishonest attack against zfc, for his own malicious reasons. I have simply covered that doc point by point. It also means i now will get to make some vids on bearings without risking triggering Hambini /' Hambini fans - as he pulled the trigger himself. So now having covered this one off, in future i can go into some great bearing hints and tips, as well as when it is or is not worth it to spend the $$ on ceramic - without people being triggered by simply believing Hambini's BS test / data carte blanche. So pls keep this in the actual perspective that it is.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I disagree that the ceramic bearings offered by Cycling companies are not a rip off. In many cases I am aware of, these same bearings are available through distributors for much less than what is charged by the cycling providers-for example, DT Swiss' "Sinc" ceramic bearings are just TPI hybrid ceramics. If one purchases them from DT Swiss, and their dealers, the customer is charged almost double what the same bearings cost from a standard industrial distributor. The massive price mark up charged by the cycling companies is where I perceive the rip off. I have heard good things about Enduro XD-15, I might try a pair sometime. I also disagree that bearings are "easy to clean/reset". A bearing in a bottom bracket is not accessible enough to clean very well, because one can only remove the outer seal/shield. I have tried this, flushing with WD-40, blowing out with a compressor, followed by the same with isopropyl alcohol, but the bearings still remain contaminated. I have only managed to clean bearings completely when they are removed from the shell, and both seals can be removed, but BB bearings cannot be removed very easily with damaging them, because they need to be removed by the inner race, which will often damage the races. Additionally, I would appreciate in depth discussions of bearings, seals, grease, and cleaning and maintenance, and actually discussing which bearings really are quality, as there is a huge amount of marketing BS out there when it comes to bearings, without the silly need to make this into a "beef" with Hambini, or anyone else for that matter. Taking the high road is often the best approach.
I've been following the Hambini drama from all your videos. I unfollowed him and blocked him several years ago due to his disrespectful behavior. I support everything you've been saying about him and his behavior. However, I really think it's time to let it go. I think you're taking it a bit too far now and I (and probably many others) are tired of hearing about him. What do you think about moving on already and no longer paying attention to him?
Hey there! thankyou - but this one i really needed to do so that i can finally do some videos around bearing hints and tips, and what is best options for X demographics etc - without triggering H fans who just believed his crap around hybrid ceramic carte blanche. (and it does help show more re how he fools people with BS engineering info for a double win). His info on HC bearings is a wrong that has long been needing correction - i have held of doing as i didnt want to be the one triggering drama, but since he pulled the trigger - i now get to cover bearing content - yeehaa.
Taking excessively long periods of time over multiple videos to try to prove yourself right doesnt automatically make you right. Thus video series pf yours has been painful... I'll be back when your content focus goes back to its oroginal focus
of course it doesnt harv. But if you had actually taken the time to watch any one of them, you would have seen that ....a) a big reason why they were long and multiple is that there was so much BS to correct b) i did so thoroughly so that no doubt on any point could be left and c) it is rather debasing to the just come at me with a length & correctness correlation. If you think i am incorrect on any point - please just tell me where i am incorrect. You know what is more painful than a thorough series tearing apart malicious dishonest BS to attack others - it is people who allow such to do so. Who will forgive anyone anything as long they find them a bit entertaining. Honestly, dont come back. Im not the channel nor the person for you, nor you for me. Go support obvious human pieces of crap if thats you, and just own that that is who you are.
I was not aware that hambini made an article but read it today. Zfc was simply dismantled on the basics when it comes to engineering and how to perform tests//handle results and measurements. Adam might talk a lot and sound convincing but has little to no knowledge how the lab tests should be conducted. He simply lacks background knowledge and is not willing to educate himself.
@@1mesonyx I suggest you watch just 5 to 10 minutes of any of the response video's where i go through each and every point specifically. It will appear to those with a) no mechanical knowledge and or b) just hambini fanboy a certain way. But as i demonstrate - his every point is just so easily rebutted and proven incorrect, which makes the document extremely embarrassing - especially from an engineering standpoint - for hambini. H relies on being able to fool the many of his audience who lack the knowledge and intelligence to easily understand why it is BS and that wont take the time to watch any of the rebuttal to his BS points. So - you can either be a person of honesty and character and watch a response vid- and pick any specific point you like and come back to me and let me know how my rebuttal is incorrect, or - if you have intelligence and character - now see Hambini for what he is. Or, you can not do anything of that and just be a blind Hambini fool like he is counting on you to be, he loves much of his audience to be his suckers for his often complete BS reamings etc - he wouldnt survive if most of his audience had a good noodle and good character to easily see through them.
Thanks again, Adam, for presenting us with more science, rather than Hambini's "entertainment + click-baiting methodology". Hambini's rants have often been enjoyable to watch, but for this little 'non-sheep', I'm never likely to merely listen to anything he says that isn't confirmed elsewhere, & then act on it. Was his aerospace experience with Concorde? 🤔
Thanks David - and re his aerospace experience i think that is highly unknown overall... he has been super cagey i believe about much of his employment history...
I simply have facts, honest and integrity on my side! :) Hambini can fool a lot of people (alas, many are easily fooled by his pseudo engineering babble) - but under scrutiny they are just very easily dismantled and shown for what they are (and who he is)
I think you really should quantify that somewhat. Any upgrades value can depend greatly on the cyclist. As long as the upgrade has some benefit, then it becomes a cost / benefit analysis for that cyclist. To me a carte blanche 95% tells me it is likely the person has rarely met a conspiracy they weren't all on board for.
How so? Define snake oil. Further, define snake oil for every single cyclist. The problem, is no can define any product as snake oil that is accepted by all. And the accusation implicit in "snake oil" ignores the tastes and requirements of a given cyclist. "Snake oil" is not an objective term. 95% is a made-up statistic
@@zerofrictioncycling992 well 95% is just a number pulled out of somebodys you-know-what - just like the claims you make.. Prove your claims - it is not difficult, if these bearings actually make any difference on a bike, prove it.. And no it does not depend on the cyclist - this is something that you can actually measure, otherwise you are talking about subjective nonsense and beliefs.. The only market with more BS than cycling is HIFI.. When somebody pays 1000$ for a powercord I bet you they can hear a difference... Ceramic bearings in bikes are nonsense - just like a 1000$ power cord. Of course - if you are vingegaard chasing 0.15w - yes then go for it.. anybody else 👎
Hambini, Hambini, Hambini, Hambini, Hambini ad infinitum. I’m fed up hearing about the bloke. He has somehow triggered a massive OCD response from you, and you’re giving him much more exposure than he should have (any publicity is good publicity. Right). Just let it go man, and carry on doing what you’re patently good at.
It is ok to disagree - but a) i felt it valuable to counter point by point his massively dishonest attack doc - and that just took what it took to get through, and then b) i think there is a lot of value in discussing whether it is true or not around Hybrid ceramic bearings suitability / benefits for cycling. And now having covered this foundation - i can then do vids on bearing hints and tips without triggering people who have been fooled by Hambini's information - i can reference them to here.
100 years ago, there was a man who created a following that we could have just ignored, and mostly did. Where did that silence end-up leaving the world after all those lies? Now, again in 2024, we have a man in the USA, just as in 2016, who has a following that believe all his lies. Just where could that lead the world if no-one speaks up? Truth is what we ALL need more of, some, like Adam here, get passionate about upholding truth. Thank you, Adam. 👍
@@davidlilja9180 Thankyou david. Yes i can understand why many are not willing to straighten their own spine against these types of people, but i dont understand those who criticize those that do. Your thoughts are a mirror to mine i think on that. As the old saying goes, all that is needed for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing. We have guy held up by many as hero for having the "courage" to hold companies / people / products to account - well one can't be doing that if they are just making it all up - that is insidious, and that is not what should be allowed to grow like it has in our lovely world of cycling. It is both fascinating and dismaying to see how popular the likes of Andrew Tate became etc - How? Such unbelievably obviously horrific person - and yet look at the support he gets. And yes - what is going on in USA, honestly i cant even comprehend how its possible. Watch the video from a couple days ago by You tube channel Legal eagle - that summarises upcoming risk in usa extremely well, very good channel
I appreciate one's desire to clear the air so to speak, but personally, I'd rather have the last 10 hours of video/editing/thinking about it spent on testing and more data about chain lubes. Save yourself the ulcer, it's not worth it, who cares anyway, even if one of you is ":right", no one watching these videos can feel a watt or two of possible savings, nor measure it consistently with their 1% margin of error at best power meter or butt dyno.
apologies 10k none of that makes sense to me at all. 1) you didnt have yours and your business' integrity attacked with made up dishonest BS by a high profile person in cycling. 2) In debunking that, people can learn more about the zfc test, as well as find out more about how shockingly dishonest the other party is (i am not the only one he has done this too). 3) i have not been able to make a video on bearing hints and tips previously as Hambini followers would have been triggered regarding ceramic bearings - so it is good to finally just get that covered first showing clearly who is selling them down a river re that information, so then in future i can do a video on groovy bearing knowledge thats actually helpful, and factual 4) testing isnt going anywhere - a lot of testing is private as there are not good options globally for mfg so i am very booked - open tests have been a bit of struggle to get to. In the intervening time as testing continues, i will have some groovy stuff to do on vids soon. I greatly appreciate the interest for normal content, and i will do my best to provide that for you, but - simply - sometimes in this world things come up that must be dealt with properly and for a variety of important reasons i covered in the prelude. it is also simply against my core nature to allow someone to maliciously and dishonestly attack me / my business and just oh ok - thats fine, let cyclings biggest and most dishonest bully just get away with such behaviour again - vs standing up against such, and standing with others who have done the same. if you cant support that - the we simply differ, a lot. As the saying goes, for evil to flourish all it needs is for good people to do nothing. Well thats not me. And part of the problem with the world is that is too many people. In this video in particular - you should be able to see very clearly what he is doing and why, and - if you were previously unsure if HC bearings were suitable for cycling - the knowledge in this video will help that a lot, so it is providing good value on multiple fronts. You should indeed care who is right if one party is constantly lying and misleading their audience to hate on people / companies / products for malicious reasons, and who is a good company / person providing excellent and factual information of use to cyclists. If you dont care about that - again, we just differ, a lot - re our core values, and i am unlikely to be the guy or channel for you.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I didn't actually follow any of the links on that site, but 'hambini' does appear to be as dodgy as he has almost always sounded!
It's jolly unsporting of you to use grown-up logic and verifiable data to attack Hambini's schoolboy essay. I do think, though, that you have made a mistake in thinking that Hambini ever did any testing before producing his Excel graphs. He "calculated" the results, no doubt based on something he read in his tribology book.
that has been a concern of mine indeed as well! Until i actually see the testing protocol and equipment, we have no idea if he didnt just simply enter whatever numbers he liked into his "calculations". It is BONKERS his testing on this is secret. Beyond bonkers. I think for sure a bookie to could run some odds on whether any actual testing took place or not or it was just H's fingers and an excel workbook
Chrome bearings are steel bearings, they are "chromium steel" - the addition of chromium to the steel alloy making them harder and thus longer lasting. Not many bearings "stainless steel" as such - all steel bearings are prone to rust if exposed - ie it is very common for any steel bearing - regardless of quality - to rust relatively quickly if water ingress occurs. Bearings are not generally meant to run exposed, they are meant to run sealed and greased, meaning protection against oxidation is not the primary goal for the steel being used - being hard and tough is. Proper stainless steels can have properties that are not desirable (more brittle etc). Here is a little information re enduro abec 5 level steel bearings re chrome steel; Description Enduro Standard Abec 5 are premium replacement bearings. These are great for hubs, pedals, and bottom brackets. ABEC 5 bearings feature: Grade 5 Chromium Steel Balls. In spec to 5/1,000,000″ (military grade) 52100 High Carbon Chromium Alloy Races .
If ceramic BBs had durability problems we would have heard about it a long time ago..the trouble is way too many youtube channels and MANUFACTURERS, push crap like oversize pulleys for $600 or $40000 wheels to be cool..a lot of newbe riders get online and drink the koolaid with zero knowledge ...a lube that cleans and lubes..🤣🤣🤣
yes indeed :) And yes there is that but....... people have to remember ALL brands who make products and sell stuff are there to make money and make a profit so they can keep going, pay staff, grow etc etc. Everyone should simply be responsible for their own commercial choices. If one gets somehow sucked into buying OSPW for watts savings vs about 50 other things first - well that is on them. And other times, people just like to pimp their bikes, personalize them with some cool bits etc - its everyones disposable spend - if a set of OSPW is more fun for someone than a bike fit - then its more fun for someone, we aint their mom. As long as someone isnt being actively lied to by a sales rep - its up to each person to be responsible for making their own decisions, and there are online bike calculators etc where one can ok well how much will 2w save me - oh - its like 2 seconds per 40km - hmm is that worth $600 plus labour if im only buying it for the performance claims. And lastly hahahaha - sorry - i do type fast... a lot of spend on cycling for a lot of people, vs other spend - its not much..... there is a demographic a lot of products are marketed for that has disposable income for fun stuff on bikes. Ie, i cant tell you what the average annual vehicle depreciation is for a lot of friends, cycling friends, cyclists i know well etc is - but its a lot. How many people dont blink at losing 20k or even 50k or more, in a year, in depreciaton on a car - thats normal. but oooh what did you spend on X for your bike are you crazy.... Ie i have no logical justification for my Bastion - but i will have it and love it for decades, and it was bloody expensive, but also the same cost as many peoples one year car depreciation - so there's that :) Do i need titanium cranks on my mtb - no. Do i love them every time i ride my bike - yes. Could i easily afford them. Yes. = Fun. Did i need to go xx-sl for my t-type upgrade on my race mtb - no, i am old and slow. Do i love it every time i ride it = yes. Could i easily afford = yes. Fun. Etc etc :) If any such fun purchases were going to be a financial stretch - i wouldnt do them, i would buy 2nd tier, 3rd tier level - whatever makes sense for my budget. Would i still love what i had - yes. I am just lucky enough to have fun discretionary spend on fun bike bits, and there is a lot like me in the world. So its not necessarily drinking some koolaid with no knowledge although im sure that happens, sometimes it can just also be for the love of bikes and fun stuff and fun discretionary spend on a hobby and sport we love. Others might like fishing and have a fkn nice boat, and do they need that triple evinrude outboard set up with 750HP - no, fun = yes. And the suv to tow the boat. and so on. Do what you love how you love to do it, and be responsible as you need to on your own spend and yeehaa.
i will bet he spent AT least that much time crafting his dishonest attack doc. It simply took that long because there was so much dishonest bs to correct as well as engineering nonsense. I just went through it point by point. If you think its tragic, perhaps you should direct that at the creator of that amount of dishonest rubbish to be corrected no?. Get some fairness and some basic morals Archieman and direct your tragic feelings where they should go - how about to the person who reams others based of BS for clicks and narcissism - thats not tragic to you?
Just because hybrid ceramic bearings have extra hard races, it doesn't make them more durable than full steel bearings. Because the relative hardness of the materials is the major factor in how fast they wear. Just having the hardest possible materials isn't better. They need to be well matched with each other.
I didnt say that. I said that they are simply and obviously hardened enough such they the races are not quickly worn by the harder ceramic balls as advised by hambini. The hardness's are obviously correctly matched, or why would the mfg make them.
@@cpt.slackbladder3187 what does that even mean? So you are saying only schaeffler has cracked how to make hybrid ceramic bearings? Perhaps then you would like to ask SKF and all the other major industry players how they are making HC bearings with claims on many times the lifespan vs their own steel bearings? Why oh why would all the major industry players being making HC bearings, with claims of greater lifespan and efficiency? I dont understand your point. HC bearings are a solved item. Obviously. And at no point did i say just have the hardest steel / race possible etc. I just said - as is 100% true - the quality mfg of HC bearings obviously know how to make the races sufficiently hardened. I am sorry i do not know what point you are trying to make. Watch the video perhaps i am extremely certain whatever concern you have is covered.
The SKF group video th-cam.com/video/3rOCZCv40E8/w-d-xo.html discusses how grease life is superior in HC compared to full steel bearings. HC bearings also perform much better in low/poor lubrication conditions which is shown at 2458s . I can't include a 2nd link as YT removes my comment.
I'm not disputing your concerns with his methodologies and somewhat dubious results (encompassing acres of "commercial-in-confidence" bullcrap): I've come across plenty like this in the bike industry, including when I was a journo for an Australian bike magazine, publicly disputing the borderline fraudulent findings of certain cycle fit protocols promoted by certain well-known identities which were of course correct because they were ex-pros, national level coaches and they said so. If I hear the phrase 'mid-foot cleat position' being used in anything except a joking tone ever again I will spit my dummy really really far. However, 6 videos in, this is starting to look like a vendetta, obviously by him against you, but reciprocally by you against him, and is not doing your good reputation any favours. The old saying: "You never win when wrestling pigs: you both end up covered in pig filth, and the pig loves it" springs to mind. Also, the cartoon showing the guy in front of a computer, & when his wife says come to bed, he replies "I'll be up in a while: there's somebody who's wrong on the internet I have to deal with". & if it's not Chipmunk Hambone and the Stinky Fruit Venereal, it'll be someone else. OTOH, as my dad is fond of saying: "If you're not making any enemies, you're not trying hard enough". (at what you're doing, not deliberately being abrasive, as my teenage self had to have it unpacked). When I saw the nearly hour-long runtime of this instalment I thought to myself "Do I really want to sit through another hour of listening about Hamboney's obvious jiggery-pokery, his evidence-free/light 'engineering' assertions yet again, when it's obvious that he's a crank and a shonk? I'm sure that there's something better that you could do with your time Adam, and I might wait for your wrap-up (in a condensed version!) of the (Ham)bones you have to pick with Mr. Chipmunk. You're not Robinson Crusoe in that respect, as I'm sure that you're aware. Otherwise, keep up the good work!
Thanks for taking the time to a) watch and b) provide considered feedback. For context on this one - i have wanted to do some video's on bearings for a long time, as it does fit in the low friction drivetrain focus by zfc - but i have avoided all this time because i cant do video's on bearings and hints and tips without discussing hybrid ceramic bearings, and then there is a whole swathe of people convinced they are just outright snake oil thanks Hambini's information - and thus without covering that topic off first, any vids would be a mess in the comments. There will be future focus on another area of his - and it you think it is a vendetta, and think less of me for it - at the end of the day i cannot please everyone / balance this right for all. I need to follow my own core beliefs and compass. We have a man who is viewed as a hero by many as "having the courage to hold X to account etc". Well, he isnt holding anyone to account when he is just making it up. I find that an insidious, malignant affront to the cycling world, and i will be doing my part to help more people know who he is and what he does. I dont care if its one person in a thousand, or how much negative flak i get - i am going to do stand up and do my part. The initial vids - it just took what it took to get through that much of BS document. Whatever time i took to do those vids, i am pretty sure he spent at least as much time crafting that attack doc. And my responses are point by point specific to leave no doubt (to those with working noodles) on any point. Since he triggered things with his attack doc, this free'd me up to finally get this video done so i can talk about bearings without being accused of being the one to trigger drama - so from me, its all win win win, and i hope that concerns re me vs hambini aside, if you had any doubts about information on HC bearings suitability in cycling i have hopefully helped there too.
Personally, I do not have any expertise to determine who is correct on this issue. Maybe you can post some links in the description or under this comment to help me look into it further. I have avoided ceramic bearings because of the Hambini video and not knowing better or have any sources of information. Maybe I did save myself some money even though I would have been happy to pay an arm and leg for ceramic bearings if I can conclusively figure out whether they are better myself. I guess I'm a cycling marketing teams wet dream. But I do try to look at more 'obscure' sources online and maybe Hambini lead me to an incorrect conclusion. You are not the first Hambini has attacked, and this drama on TH-cam isn't the first either. I don't know if you have seen the videos from Reginald Scot. He is a bike mechanic on TH-cam who got into a very public spat with Hambini too. I think the issue with Hambini is, he just isn't willing to do any introspection. When confronted, he can only double down and respond aggressively. I think that alone disqualifies him as an honest authority on anything. I mean I don't agree with with Reginald on everything. e.g. he recently did a piece on rim vs disc brakes. I am firmly in the disc brake camp. He did a video and then a follow up, which appeared to be quite intellectually honest. I get the same feel from you. In my head, I wonder, did he did make a mistake in his initial testing, then in his haste to gain viewers, posted his results. When challenged, he couldn't bring himself to admit fault? Is that what happened? Who knows, but I don't find him to be intellectually honest. Apologies, this is a rather cold and dispassionate read on the whole thing. I remember you talking about threats to your wife and child and this must be a huge emotional drain and I am sorry that this is happening to you.
In the future i will go over discussion on when HC are potentially worth the cost or not. If you have avoided HC - you havent dudded yourself really as quality steel is fantastic. But for some (avid racers - those riding a lot in harsh conditions) the benefits and extra durability and wear life of quality HC can be a real benefit. But before i can chat about that - i first had to cover off why that information by Hambini is utter BS, it goes against all other information - both from industry and well over a decade of very successful use in cycling - and so it if he wants to substantiate his position on HC - he needs to not have his testing secret that sits behind the only data that exists saying they are not suitable for cycling. It is entirely likely that you do not at all need to pay an arm and a leg more for HC. It is entirely likely that quality steel is perfect for you and all you will need. Simply the information that HC is crap, is - well - crap. And definitely some cyclists will and do get some great benefits (like me for instance).
@@zerofrictioncycling992 at the level I'm cycling at, I'm sure it makes negligible difference if I have high quality steel vs hc bearings. But I guess just knowing you have a premium product gives a pretty strong placebo boost 😂
@@jrmhng yeah for sure - for many its just a thing they do to pimp their bike a bit for some fun discretionary spend, for others you sometimes get ceramic speed etc included in certain wheelsets, or OEM with some frames BB. For avid racers they often will go ceramic - even at recreational level - again its just their hobby they are avid about, so pimping ones bike a bit often comes with that - but for others - especially those of us that ride a lot of wet offroad in winter / winter mtb racing / cx racing - the benefits then REALLY shine vs steel. The main thrust of this one as price vs benefit for whom really is a separate discussion - is simply to debunk the info that HC are snake oil and faster wear and soon higher friction as pitched by Hambini and his secret squirrel testing producing results that go against all other knowledge on HC bearings.
Hambini is living rent free in your head LFC… He is right - ceramic bearings primary use if for high rpm applications - closer to 100000rpm than 100rpm… companies selling “hybrid” ceramic bearings to cyclists should really have their margins scrutinised more closely…. You do not see cars being fitted with ceramic wheel bearings …. I wonder why…
they are looking at hybrid ceramic for cars now - especially EV's - for the improved efficiency. To date - why would a person purchasing a car pay say 1k more for vehicle to have more efficient bearings - they would never notice that in an ICE vehicle, but for improved range for EV's - it is looking closer. It is cost, not suitability to purpose as to why they are not used in cars. Already most bearings last the life of the vehicle, so the extra wear life is generally not needed etc etc. So there - you wondered why - its easily answered, and you can also google that yourself to read more from bearing mfg. And even without cars using currently, that has absolutely nothing to do with the extremely proven and successful use and advantages in cycling, for a very long time. It sucks when the real world + basic information about the advantages of hybrid ceramic simply exist. I dont think you have even watched the video. (also - you think we need to be talking 100,000 rpm for hybrid ceramic to be a think? there are so, so many applications they are used at very sane rpms. And guess what - if they last a long time clocking up 1 mil revolutions in 10 minutes, they last a long time taking 185 hours at 90 rpm to get to the same. Obviously.) Re the rent free - cant you guys come up with something better? He maliciously attacked me, and in an extremely dishonest manner. That was covered as it should be, and so whilst i am here - as part of helping ensure it is easy to know what person is what - it is absolutely time to cover what caused me to be on his hit list to begin with, as well as turn the spotlight around to where actual issues lie - which is not at ZFC.
This is not the point. It is not so much the question if hybrid ceramic bearings are ideal for cycling, or even better for high RPM applications. It just shows that the claim that hybrid ceramic bearings are bad for cycling is unsubstantiated. There is really no data supporting that claim. Adam even says that steel bearings are perfectly fine for most. However, practical evidence and Hambini actually contradicting himself is debunking his claim. Schaeffler has done it (solving the problem of race-wear), and so have others. He even said how. Doesn't Enduro offer life-long (limited) warranty on hybrid bearings? I wonder if they know what they are doing, as a producer of bearings for many industries, or if they should listen to Hambini.
@dominicbritt I have two Hambini BB so I´m an Hambini fan however the suspicious testing along with Hambini´s unusual silence about his charts and test protocol says more than I would like to admit about it´s validity. ZeroFriction might have striked a nerve.
Hybrid ceramic bearings can outlast steel bearings in some cycling applications, maybe all. A user might find that using longer-lasting hybrid ceramic bearings saves money in the long run as the result of greater durability. Moreover, a design spec doesn't mean a given product won't work perfectly well in an application that wasn't specified in the design. The list of tech and/or products commonly used for things beyond their original design purpose is very long.
@@wsbygt I am sure your BB's are great, and also the quality steel bearings - they are honestly perfect for many many cyclists who do not need to spend 3x the amount to go hybrid ceramic. Simply the information around hybrid ceramic from H is utter BS. They are proven superior wear life (again, for quality HC), and efficiency - so there are benefits to be had for some (avid racers, those of us riding frequently in harsh conditions etc). And it is BONKERS that his testing to back his claims is secret. Bonkers.
how so? By providing sound logic and thorough explanations backed by proof? Vs unsound logic backed by secret testing? Compared to that guy, you are saying im full of myself hahahahahahaha
Adam's testing & research has benefitted thousands and thousands of cyclists, so his positive reputation is secure. Your attack is pretty silly, and really reveals more about you than it does about him.
Let me guess, 2 watts gains but twice to three times more expensive? Irrelevant and waste of money. I'm a waxer however because it's make my drivetrain last longer(supposedly according to your data and other testimonies) and my hands cleaner.
Like with waxing it doesn't have to be about watts saved. It can be about durability. Durable products that cost more can possibly cost less in the long run through not having to repeatedly replace less durable options. It's up to the user to weigh the pros and cons though.
I said at the start the discussion around if they are worth the cost is a different discussion. this is a technical look at whether they are suitable or not suitable and hambini's information to prove they are not - which is utter BS, and unacceptably based on secret testing that makes no sense. In short - for a road rider who only rides in dry weather who is going to keep their bike for 2 to 5 years and doesnt care about a couple watts - absolutely - why spend the extra vs quality steel - quality steel is fantastic. But thats not everyone. Many also ride frequently in harsh conditions - and the ability to just clean and re grease a HC bearing vs replace a steel bearing - i can tell you wow wow wow thats better.
Lot's (thousands) of tests have been done with different hardness of materials. It is well established science that softer materials get worn disproportionately by harder materials. In your previous video I posted data that ceramic is approximately twice as hard are the hardest steel. I haven't tested any bearings personally, but my money is on ceramic hybrid bearings wearing faster then full steel and full ceramic bearings. I think the onus is on hybrid ceramic bearing manufacturers to provide convincing testing data to proive that theiir bearings somehow defy science. I don't see why averyone else has to believe that hybrid ceramic bearings are durable unless proved otherwise. Science works the other way around.
Until you factor that normally it is the balls in the bearing that do the majority of the wearing, so now you drastically slow that, and you have hard wearing races, and you have - as already demonstrated by industry information - a much longer lasting bearing. It is not defying science. Have you even watched the video? Obviously the major bearing mfg making hybrid ceramic bearings - such as one of hambini's favoured companies SKF - who claim 4x longer lifespan - know what they are doing. Perhaps watch the industry information section at least and have some knowledge before you make comments that are just objectively incorrect. Or google hybrid ceramic vs steel and lifespan etc (or... you know, watch the video you are commenting on before you comment..)
Ok peeps - since a couple of illogical points have kept coming up - lets deal with that and pin this comment to top.
So - comments like.... "Even as a layman, it's common knowledge that ceramic is significantly harder than any type of steel. The data you're presenting seems to contradict basic physics and well-established facts." and "He is right - ceramic bearings primary use if for high rpm applications - closer to 100000rpm than 100rpm…"
So - if you think that it is that simple regarding relative hardness - then perhaps write to the major bearing mfg like SKF (one of Hambini's favorites) and tell them about that, as obviously they hadn't realised and need you to explain it too them.
The fact that major industry bearing manufactures MAKE HYBRID CERAMIC BEARINGS might give you some pause. Why would they make them? Then ask - why would they claim much SUPERIOR wear life vs THEIR OWN STEEL BEARINGS in a like for like comparison and use case.
Following on from that - the argument then re only for high speed applications - says who, and why? why would a bearing capable of outstanding lifespan and performance at 10,000 rpm suddenly have an issue at 90 rpm? If a bearing is having an outstanding lifespan at 10,000 rpm - that is clocking up a lot of revolutions. It takes a long time at 90rpm to clock up the same.
So the two arguments coming through together make zero sense. Both HC are not a good bearing because Duh - the ceramic balls are harder, and oh also they are only suitable for high rpm - it is nonsensical. By that logic, the high rpm would take the bearing through its wear life in extremely short order as it is ripping through its cycle life.
So then why would they be made? they cost more to make, and have a shorter lifespans because Duh, ceramic harder than steel dummy! The fact that they are made, and are made with claims of superior wear life, by leading industry mfg who make both HC and steel..... If you have found yourself in the above camp - i doubt you have even watched the video, and are commenting based on Hambini's information - for which you should then watch this video. Understand the content you are actually commenting on will be really helpful for you vs making a nonsensical illogical argument. And after this if you still dont believe me, email SKF then and let them know ceramic is harder than steel, your knowledge is obviously needed!
There is a relationship between friction and design rotational speed, since friction is heat, and making any bearing run hot well you're going to start degrading the grease and you're going to have fit issues, elevated temperature is always trouble. So if you have an actual high-speed bearing, it may under the circumstances just be what you're looking for for low-loss low-speed.
The argument that materials should be matched and it's better than being hard... well that can be true but with the limitation that obviously nobody suggests using bearings made from chewing gum or even a soft metal Because they won't be able to stand up to the radial load. Plus in a bicycle you have the problem of ingress of harder material from the outside, all the shielding only does so much, and it should make a difference whether the ingress can be crushed and displaced by the bearing, or whether it ends up embedding itself or inducing permanent gouging. I don't know how much of a role that plays, but if lived experiences of cyclists are any indication, it just might?
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 They don't teach you not to throw ad hominems around? Then again if you can't tell my writing style from a machine, you can't be helped.
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 have you even watched the video? i show you information from SKF, which is not difficult to find, nor is other information from major industry players on hybrid ceramic vs steel. It must have been a quick google indeed.
In this area i dont have "expertise" - i have a basic working knowledge. And that basic working knowledge is enough to destroy the supposed the bearing experts BS, because quite simply - it is BS.
And it is enough to properly correct instances like your comment, where you havent even watched the video, and so are commenting off literally zero knowledge and missing a basic logic fail. If you are going to have input on this channel, please make it input that contributes something. I do not mean to sound harsh, but if you post utter rubbish that could mislead others who read it, i will correct it, and correct it strongly. If you wish to counter my correction - then do so - again - specifically with counter KNOWLEDGE - not demonstrating zero knowledge and logic fails.
And it seems very clear from numerous comments now you are not even watching the video's you are putting counter comments on as they make no sense to anyone who has actually watched the information presented - doing this is just disrespectful. I can't fathom how / why people do this.
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 Im sorry but even if SKF dont make any for cycling - what does that mean to you? Many other industry mfg do - as we have gone through re schaeffler - another of Hambini's preffered brands for steel. My point - obviously - is they HC are a KNOWN & proven superior bearing for numerous applications, providing both greater efficiency and much longer lifespan. It is PROVEN AND KNOWN that many mfg easily know how to make sufficiently hardened races for HC bearings.
IF they are not suitable for cycling - then we would for sure know about it by now. And we do know about it by now, and we know that quality options offer superior efficiency and lifespan vs steel - it mostly comes down to is it worth spending multiple times the money for these benefits if quality steel will do all one needs - again that is a separate discussion.
IF hambini wishes to present that due to vibration and shock they are not suitable for cycling - then he needs to substantiate that. We have a baseline from industry (and again - it is by no means just skf claiming much longer lifespan, it is easily found for many industry mfg) that they are say 4x longer lifespan than steel (or even say just 3x as in the spreader bearing study shown).
Then from that baseline - X vibration and X shock from cycling use would = what reduction in effective lifespan from that baseline? Vibration is quite a range and spectrum (frequency and amplitude) - the levels of both will impact lifespan of a bearing by X - a huge factor in that is the bearings own load ratings. ie - the small 6802 size bearings in a small hub such as a dt180, with a 100kg rider, who often rides shit roads - the lifespan impact on those bearings will be......??? Maybe they are only double the lifespan vs steel. What if they are much larger such as 6902 bearings, and the rider weighs 75kg, and rides "normal" roads. Maybe the impact is too small to be ever objectively measured?
Then take large 6806 bearings, in the much lower vs hubs vibration and shock load of a bottom bracket. What impact on their lifespan does this application have? A reduction for 3x or 4x to 2.99x or 3.99x?
So if he wants to claim - outright - UNSUITABLE - so cycling use takes a bearing with a 3 to 4x longer lifespan in other use cases such as a motor - then HE needs to substantiate that cycling reduces this all the way down to it now having 1/10th the effective lifespan of steel - according to his testing this was the cross over point in friction for HC vs steel and it kept going worse and worse after that.
And that was in a BB test. How on earth has he tested a 6806 bearing, which in "normal" applications will have a 3 to 4x lifespan vs steel, and managed to get that to change to 1/10th - due to shock and vibration. Which we have no idea if or how he has even introduced into his testing, and honestly considering the 0.01w accuracy claimed measures - seems extremely unlikely to have been done. The level of shock and vibration to try to achieve this in a quality HC bearing would be beyond, and it would be such that it would absolutely impact the steel bearing lifespan as well.
Considering we seen small HC bearings like 6802, in wheel hubs - carrying the weight of the rider zooming down the road or trails and all the vibration and shock this may bring, and still deliver easily ascertained superior lifespan vs steel - from so much real world use over well over decade - can you not see how unbelievably unlikely it is for Hambini's testing to be correct, or potentially - how has it even taken place, as really no one has any idea how such a result could be obtained.
I hope this helps explain and that you can follow that logic path ok. I know you are a H fan, but you can either just be a blind fan and cling on with zero objectivity, or you can get your own mind back again, think properly for yourself, analyze a situation properly based on logic like the above - and use your intellect and energy to help others rather than fight for an obviously wrong cause / person.
Pls note in my copy paste of previous comment - i didnt include your handle, many wouldnt have known - i simply copied and pasted that one as it was the text book example - it is obviously (sorry dont mean to be strong worded) - nonsense that ceramic harder so it cant work - when it is so easily checked that as a baseline they have far superior lifespan, obviously the major bearing mfg would not miss something so basic - why would they be made?! Why would any mfg make - at much higher cost - a bearing with a much shorter lifespan cos duh ceramic harder will damage steel... I just struggle how it is not obvious that major bearing mfg would know what they are doing, they make these bearings for a reason, and that reason - as they claim - is superior efficiency AND much superior lifespan.
So that is the starting point, and H has to substantiate from his testing how they go from a baseline of 3 to 4x greater lifespan to 1/10th the lifespan. In a bottom bracket use case.
It is not only bonkers from basic information and logic standpoint, but we also have so much real world experience to also back that they are superior. Not 1/10th the lifespan.
Move from the dark side to the light. Use your energy and intellect for good.
A couple of the above deduced statements do not follow. There are differences between high speed and low speed bearings. Temperature and impact behavior primarily.
For a channel called "Zero Friction Cycling" there sure seems to be a lot of friction lately.
Its all in line - a whole lot of friction was maliciously thrown my way, so i have simply been removing it - thoroughly, to lessen the ability of that friction to try and come back in. Plus hopefully people have been able to a) learn a bunch about the ZFC testing, b) learn some actual facts about bearings and c) learn about a person in cycling who is portraying themselves as a hero holding companies to account - which obviously one is not if they are making all the crap up. So i am helping reduce friction for other companies and people who have been maligned by Hambini by helping show what hambini is and what he does.
These videos would not be needed if it were not for Hambini's website attack on Adam. Ultimately, only the absolute Fanboys would go to Hambini's website rather than watch his videos. However, this series of videos is good insurance for Adam in case Hambini decides to go him in TH-cam format. This series of videos is so comprehensive you would have to be dumber than a 5-year-old to make a slanderous video now. I actually predict there will be no anti Zero Friction Cycling video from Hambini now that this extensive catalogue is available. If he were to make that video he would only be opening himself up to his followers finding this catalog. Well played Adam I say
That's true, but to be honest Hambini *is* a bit of a drag 🤣 @zerofrictioncycling992
I think you have sufficiently dismantled the scarce creditability that Hambini had. I doubt anyone left who hasn't been convinced is worth the effort of convincing. Keep up the good work
Why wouldn't hambini need to try to 'pull the trigger' on real science, when that is how he has earned his not insubstantial YT income over the years, "I am an expert, listen to me"? Perhaps some REAL science got in the way!
hambini is an expert based on what he says about his own background. That would mean that trump would be the better president because he has been a president, himself, before! 🤔 Let's hope that the 'fanboy' clubs don't win THAT upcoming vote. But hey, sheep don't always know they are sheep while they merely follow.
Perhaps hambini has more in common with trump than he could possibly admit. Lies, lies, more lies, fairytales and votes?
When the time comes to make a point, you never fail, thank you for your passionate work.
Thanks, Adam. Very good information. I think you make very good points. Especially about keeping his test protocol secret. Scientific claims must have proof. I do love the idea of hybrid-ceramic bearings having 3-5 times the service life. Like chain waxing, it makes a lot of sense from that point of view. It's all just in up-front costs rather than much earlier replacement costs. It's just harder to make that psychological leap for many people. I don't think humans are wired to think long-term like that. But this kind of information can help overcome that instinct.
Wear is usually quantified by H/E ratio. This was established for metals by Oberle back in the 50s. (Some use H^2/E^3 for more accuracy, but H/E works fine). Ceramic balls have big advantages for high temp/high rpm applications but fewer advantages for low rpm.
Sure. But does the say 4x lifespan at 10,000rpm suddenly not be come that at 90rpm. Does it go from having 4x lifespan to 1/10th lifespan as per hambini's testing, or - like we actually see from real world cycling - still superior to much superior lifespan...
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Different regimes and load conditions - can't really infer anything. One of the biggest issues with ceramics is that they are brittle - when they shatter it's disastrous; whereas steel bearings go out of round but still work. Wear is more than just hardness and it took a long time for even big manufacturers to learn this. Not sure if the bearing manufacturers who specialize in bike bearings have the resources to test and develop these properly.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 A good place to start with wear is: TL Oberle, "Wear of metals", Journal of metals, 1951 and papers that cite this. Also, a good grasp of Hertzian contacts is necessary and that should be available in various texts. Impossible to have a coherent discussion of the topic without knowledge of these basics.
@@carlosflanders518 of course they do, but largely dont as cycling is such a tiny market vs industry. Have you ever heard of someone's Hybrid ceramic bearing shattering? I have seen one case of a ball breaking, ever - and that was in a very small size bearing in a wheel hub for a cheaper brand. The top brands have delivered much longer lifespans vs steel (basically lifetime as best as can tell), and in a Bottom bracket.... 1/10th the lifespan.... vs longer.... I think if you just run things through your circuits re what is happening with hambini's test and data.... and statements...
@@carlosflanders518 A good place to start is what industry claims re hybrid ceramic, industry studies such as the one demonstrated in this vid, and real world experience. If you are saying i cany have coherent discussion based on that information and reality vs a book - i am at a loss for words.
Even vs your own comment, where we have covered the distinct lack big mfg (industry) testing re HC and cycling - after studying such material - the first thing anyone is likely to think is this needs to be tested in the application no?
And it has been, for well over a decade, very, very successfully.
You tell me how did hambini take a bearing, that will give typically 3 to 4x lifespan in many industry applications, put it in a bottom bracket application (not even the much harsher conditions of a wheel hub re shock and vibration, AND into small bearing sizes) - manage to take a 3 to 4x superior lifespan down to a 1/10th effective lifespan for the HC - so the running conditions would have had to have been something pretty unreal, and yet.... the steel bearings were unfazed?
Perhaps worry less about a text book for the moment, and look at the situation and information being presented on the merits of that information from both sides. No need to tell me about H/E ratio's by Eberle in 1950 etc - just the basic facts and logic covered here. Tell me a specific point where the information / concern presented by me is incorrect, or correct and same re Hambini information - based on your knowledge. With respect, esoteric references to text books and ratio's adds nothing to no one regarding what is going on here
Just a question would waxing bearings instead of grease be better
No, wax does not work in bearings at all - wax is great for sliding friction (up to a load limit), it is not suitable for rolling friction
Adam wins on facts, logic, and reason. While he might be too wordy for some, it's better to have truth on your side than style!
@@theillegalimmigrant9314 If that's how you judge people and ideas, you're right. But that's like giving a poor rating to a fine restaurant because you enjoy eating Fancy Feast cat food. TH-cam is what the presenter wants it to be, and Adam is getting the views that he wants--so he likely doesn't really care what you think--or whether you like Fancy Feast or not.
I admit I have saw, long time ago, his charts about ceramic balls degrading the metal races and wondered how he tested to get to those numbers. Hopefully Hambini will respond and clear the air. Cheers!
I am sure he will respond, but he absolutely will not clear the air. Get your Hambini wankword bingo card ready, and also a journey of twisted nonsensical incorrect engineering nonsense to try to "explain". His "Fans" will just go along with whatever - not even understanding what he says (ie the attack doc on ZFC - so much of that was just utter nonsensical BS) - just oh he used engineering language and he's and engineer so he must be right. He knows he can easily fool a lot of his audience with such, and so they cannot tell what he has made up and what is just outright contradictory / hypocritical / non sensical - so thats what he does. But when any of his points is put under scrutiny and basic logic - to those with working noodles - it falls apart in a heartbeat
@@zerofrictioncycling992 🤙 Meanwhile we are getting through some great content! Thank you!
Wether or not you agree with Hambini and/or his way of communicating still doesn´t remove the fact that many others agree with him, people who are totally independent of Hambini and his or any other´s products.
of course they do, they place tacit trust due to him being an "engineer" and he presents in a convincing manner. However anyone with some working neurons when presented with the clear and obvious issues will re think that position, as we are seeing. And even hambini fans - not one to date has been able to contest any point on its merit, not even remotely - the only fall back they have is hey he's an engineer.
Watch the little summary re explanation at start of last weeks vid and tell me how my concern is incorrect. I can tell you, just simply and honestly - it is not. The odds that his testing took place are about the same as a comet and a meteor striking the earth at the exact same time in the same place - none of it makes any sense or holds up to the most basic questions and logic, and he refuses to answer any of these basic questions. Once you have a little bit of actual knowledge of HC bearings and what could be done to test them, you will see quite easily that his information and data presented is preposterous, and for sure the reason why the testing is secret is then rather concerning.
And then take whats happening here and apply it to an even larger degree to his aero testing.
Millions of people are taken advantage of every day by certain people and channels for their own commercial reasons (and other). That doesnt make the people taking advantage of others correct. It makes them something else entirely.
So you can either remain in the "i have been and am still fooled" camp, or join us on planet reality. I promise planet reality is the better place to be.
One thing is clear, you are extremely passionate about what you believe to be true. The challenge is, as a self-professed hobbyist, that is evident that you have gained most of your knowledge through internet research, through conversations with manufacturer’s reps, and based your own testing (you cite these as sources in your 27 page document). Your accomplishments are impressive but your defense, technically, is weak as you don’t have citations or references and descend in slander in every preamble and summary. Professional engineers have a responsibilities in most countries, so if you really believe Hambini is misrepresenting facts you could go after him professionally. I don’t think you have much of a case though. Having a vested outcome in a particular result is not a crime, or likely a professional red flag even. Neither is being critical of a test method or technical assertions. Not disclosing your test method, ie having IP is completely normal in many businesses. Responding as you have looks a lot like tit for tat. I’m not taking a side but I find Hambini much more credible after trying to decipher your rambling videos (try not to get mad a me, this is not intended as an insult - it is an observation). I’m an engineer by training, and it’s painful to watch you miss the point on several of his critiques of the test method. In your shoes I’d like to think I’d call it quits now and/ or get some independent expert help, like a professional engineer for example as I can see this getting even more out of control. Hambini is deliberately provocative and he got way under your skin; he hasn’t even published the video yet. Hardly anyone would have seen the blog if you hadn’t posted six videos on it-from a pure business perspective a wait and see approach might have been better. They do say that all PR is good PR though. Sharing my thoughts only to provide my insight having trained and worked in technology for a long a$$ed time. Peace.
Hey Luc -
1) Technically the defense is oh so far from weak. I am not a bearing mfg, sales rep etc. So, seeking basic information (this topic is not technically difficult) from the major bearing mfg websites to support that hybrid ceramic bearings offer greatly increased wear life - i dont know what your concern is here. This is not a published paper needing citation, and due to my typical time issues, i only went through small % of what is easily found by anyone who wants to know more about hybrid ceramic bearings.
2) Yes it should be very clear H is mis representing facts via all of what has been covered here, as well as the tear down of his BS attack document - which i covered each point specifically.
3) There are cases where protecting testing IP is valid. For the reasons outlined in the video, it is bonkers that this is acceptable in this case - however, if you disagree - then thats fine, but wow - that sure would leave things one heck of mess if this was how things were generally done for marketing. Ie - Trek comes out with a new madone, and claims it saves 100w at 40km vs nearest competitor. How tested? Secret. Trust us bro.
I try to take all feedback on board of course for improvement, however i will be unable to take on board you finding H more credible vs my "rambling". Yes i may be overly thorough, but at least in that each and every point is covered thoroughly and specifically. I demonstrated countless points from the H attack doc where what he put out was engineering nonsense. And numerous basic facts about the testing he didnt even know / or had incorrect etc.
Honestly - from that point - you other suggestions are just - odd. I do not need expert help to cover point by point my own testing vs an obvious maliciously dishonest and wildly inaccurate attack doc. Nor to point out the massive flaws in his HC vs steel information. That has been done easily - just simply thoroughly.
No i would not do a wait and see approach - Hopefully a lot more people are aware of it from me doing the video's - that is the point. Not all will agree (like you), but many will and do, and so many more than before now know who hambini is and what he does. Again - and i have covered all this - i am far from alone in receiving dishonest malicious attacks by him. The more of us that stand up to this insidious behaviour, the more know it and him for what it is.
if you disagree - thats fine, but at least give the respect to take on board my reasons. I assume my core beliefs and morals around such things might be stronger than yours.
You say its been painful to watch me miss the point on several critiques - well why dont you give me those? I have not had one specific counter yet.
Its not under my skin - its simply dealing with what is, defending my integrity from dishonest attack (natural and normal), defending the integrity of ZFC (natural and normal) - and it wasnt in my control how much crap he put out needing correction. Now this one is covered so we can all understand that HC bearings do have a purpose, i can in future do videos covering this topic vs steel without it being a mess of people jumping in calling HC snake oil based on H's BS vid.
Hambini isn't a professional engineer. If you think I am wrong about that, please provide the evidence.
@@stickler6312 He doesn't claim to be a professional engineer. He just says he works in "an engineering role"
@@stickler6312 stickler by me taking the time to reply over 9 paragraphs is me giving him the respect to address the points he raised to me in his long comment that he took the time to write. Me stating counter points is not an attack. If i dont agree with some feedback points and advise why, that is not an attack. You may also notice i am responding to A LOT of comments on A LOT of video's. Thus i am typing very quickly - it is possible some aspects of reply may come across strong - but unless i am retorting to a frankly stupid comment (and his was not) - there is again a difference between me smashing out why i disagree vs attacking.
Which honestly, i am sure you know, you just cant help yourself re your own comments.
@@infocuslearning oh but he has. many times - albeit he often does it in a strangely vague way. which when we cover his aero testing in the future - his level of secrecy there is next level - what wind tunnel - secret due to department of defence etc etc. This guy has more secrets than the CIA and Mi5
1. I have experienced hybrid ceramic bearings failing prematurely, with the races getting pitted, apparently from the races being too soft vs the harder ceramic balls. This may have been caused by the quality of the hybrid ceramic being too low, and a higher quality bearing may have avoided this problem-my point is that these bearings were sold at a premium price for cycling, and the did not provide premium performance. 2. bearing friction in a bike is mostly down to the type of seals used on the bearings (contact vs. non contact), the grease fill levels, and the type of grease used. If you want low friction, for a race or TT bike, use non contact seals, and be prepared to replace bearings fairly often. If you want long life, use contact seals. The difference in drag is still pretty small, typically less than one watt. DT Swiss uses a non contact seal on the inside of their hub bearings, and a contact seal on the outside, on their steel bearings (fairly high quality TPI bearings made in Taiwan). The current set of DT Swiss hub bearings on my gravel bike have lasted for well over 10,000 miles, still totally smooth. The fact is that ceramic bearings for bikes are a rip off, they may offer a couple of tenths of a watt advantage, but that is not worth the overly inflated prove charged for them. I do not give a #uck about ZFC's petty pissing match with Hambini, who cares, this looks like kids in the playground... The bottom line is that quality steel bearings offer excellent performance, and their price is so low, that one can affordably replace them whenever necessary-if you want the lowest rolling resistance, do not pay the high price for ceramics, use steel bearings with non-contact seals (like NTN LLB), and replace them when they get bad.
Yes for sure - and your experience is also not uncommon. You are correct, it is all about the quality of the races, and sadly - not all brands looking to make sales in this space will bring the quality behind the price tag. What brand bearings were they? Expensive but i can say from long experience some brands that do very hardened races like ceramic speed, enduro xd-15 - their bearings are practically indestructible. Hence ceramic speed lifetime warranty on coated, and 6 years on non coated.
re 2 - Yes i will have some great hints and tips to cover for bearings now that i can delve into bearings without risk of triggering Hambini / Hambini fans since Hambini pulled the trigger already - so it is great i no longer need to avoid the topic for worry of being the one to kick off drama.
The fact is QUALITY ceramic bearings are not a rip off. The right bearings will outlast how long many will own their bike, and with lower maintenance, and if ride often in harsh conditions - the ability to easily clean and reset the bearing vs replacing. Something i have much experience with in my cycling, and countless others around the world as well. If one only ever rides dry road, change their bikes every 2 to 5 years, dont care about saving a couple watts - for sure - why would one spend the big $$ on quality hybrid ceramic. Again the topic of is the cost worth it vs quality steel is whole discussion in itself. But absolutely for avid racers, and those who ride a lot in harsh conditions - the advantages of HC can be well worth it.
This is not a pissing match or playground. Pls remember that a) hambini crafted a massively dishonest attack against zfc, for his own malicious reasons. I have simply covered that doc point by point. It also means i now will get to make some vids on bearings without risking triggering Hambini /' Hambini fans - as he pulled the trigger himself. So now having covered this one off, in future i can go into some great bearing hints and tips, as well as when it is or is not worth it to spend the $$ on ceramic - without people being triggered by simply believing Hambini's BS test / data carte blanche.
So pls keep this in the actual perspective that it is.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I disagree that the ceramic bearings offered by Cycling companies are not a rip off. In many cases I am aware of, these same bearings are available through distributors for much less than what is charged by the cycling providers-for example, DT Swiss' "Sinc" ceramic bearings are just TPI hybrid ceramics. If one purchases them from DT Swiss, and their dealers, the customer is charged almost double what the same bearings cost from a standard industrial distributor. The massive price mark up charged by the cycling companies is where I perceive the rip off. I have heard good things about Enduro XD-15, I might try a pair sometime. I also disagree that bearings are "easy to clean/reset". A bearing in a bottom bracket is not accessible enough to clean very well, because one can only remove the outer seal/shield. I have tried this, flushing with WD-40, blowing out with a compressor, followed by the same with isopropyl alcohol, but the bearings still remain contaminated. I have only managed to clean bearings completely when they are removed from the shell, and both seals can be removed, but BB bearings cannot be removed very easily with damaging them, because they need to be removed by the inner race, which will often damage the races. Additionally, I would appreciate in depth discussions of bearings, seals, grease, and cleaning and maintenance, and actually discussing which bearings really are quality, as there is a huge amount of marketing BS out there when it comes to bearings, without the silly need to make this into a "beef" with Hambini, or anyone else for that matter. Taking the high road is often the best approach.
I've been following the Hambini drama from all your videos. I unfollowed him and blocked him several years ago due to his disrespectful behavior. I support everything you've been saying about him and his behavior. However, I really think it's time to let it go. I think you're taking it a bit too far now and I (and probably many others) are tired of hearing about him. What do you think about moving on already and no longer paying attention to him?
Hey there! thankyou - but this one i really needed to do so that i can finally do some videos around bearing hints and tips, and what is best options for X demographics etc - without triggering H fans who just believed his crap around hybrid ceramic carte blanche. (and it does help show more re how he fools people with BS engineering info for a double win). His info on HC bearings is a wrong that has long been needing correction - i have held of doing as i didnt want to be the one triggering drama, but since he pulled the trigger - i now get to cover bearing content - yeehaa.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I really appreciate how much time and effort goes into your videos and your work. Thank you for everything you do
Tired of hearing about 'who'? Oh, that self-professed cycling expert from the UK.
@@zerofrictioncycling992
No, keep the exposure up.
INTENSIFIY...
Taking excessively long periods of time over multiple videos to try to prove yourself right doesnt automatically make you right. Thus video series pf yours has been painful... I'll be back when your content focus goes back to its oroginal focus
of course it doesnt harv. But if you had actually taken the time to watch any one of them, you would have seen that ....a) a big reason why they were long and multiple is that there was so much BS to correct b) i did so thoroughly so that no doubt on any point could be left and c) it is rather debasing to the just come at me with a length & correctness correlation. If you think i am incorrect on any point - please just tell me where i am incorrect.
You know what is more painful than a thorough series tearing apart malicious dishonest BS to attack others - it is people who allow such to do so. Who will forgive anyone anything as long they find them a bit entertaining.
Honestly, dont come back. Im not the channel nor the person for you, nor you for me. Go support obvious human pieces of crap if thats you, and just own that that is who you are.
I was not aware that hambini made an article but read it today.
Zfc was simply dismantled on the basics when it comes to engineering and how to perform tests//handle results and measurements.
Adam might talk a lot and sound convincing but has little to no knowledge how the lab tests should be conducted. He simply lacks background knowledge and is not willing to educate himself.
@@1mesonyx I suggest you watch just 5 to 10 minutes of any of the response video's where i go through each and every point specifically. It will appear to those with a) no mechanical knowledge and or b) just hambini fanboy a certain way. But as i demonstrate - his every point is just so easily rebutted and proven incorrect, which makes the document extremely embarrassing - especially from an engineering standpoint - for hambini. H relies on being able to fool the many of his audience who lack the knowledge and intelligence to easily understand why it is BS and that wont take the time to watch any of the rebuttal to his BS points.
So - you can either be a person of honesty and character and watch a response vid- and pick any specific point you like and come back to me and let me know how my rebuttal is incorrect, or - if you have intelligence and character - now see Hambini for what he is. Or, you can not do anything of that and just be a blind Hambini fool like he is counting on you to be, he loves much of his audience to be his suckers for his often complete BS reamings etc - he wouldnt survive if most of his audience had a good noodle and good character to easily see through them.
Thanks again, Adam, for presenting us with more science, rather than Hambini's "entertainment + click-baiting methodology". Hambini's rants have often been enjoyable to watch, but for this little 'non-sheep', I'm never likely to merely listen to anything he says that isn't confirmed elsewhere, & then act on it. Was his aerospace experience with Concorde? 🤔
Thanks David - and re his aerospace experience i think that is highly unknown overall... he has been super cagey i believe about much of his employment history...
Would anyone cross Kerin again after this demolition?
I simply have facts, honest and integrity on my side! :) Hambini can fool a lot of people (alas, many are easily fooled by his pseudo engineering babble) - but under scrutiny they are just very easily dismantled and shown for what they are (and who he is)
Sounds good
95% off all bikeupgrades are snakeoil...
I think you really should quantify that somewhat. Any upgrades value can depend greatly on the cyclist. As long as the upgrade has some benefit, then it becomes a cost / benefit analysis for that cyclist. To me a carte blanche 95% tells me it is likely the person has rarely met a conspiracy they weren't all on board for.
How so? Define snake oil. Further, define snake oil for every single cyclist. The problem, is no can define any product as snake oil that is accepted by all. And the accusation implicit in "snake oil" ignores the tastes and requirements of a given cyclist. "Snake oil" is not an objective term. 95% is a made-up statistic
@@zerofrictioncycling992 well 95% is just a number pulled out of somebodys you-know-what - just like the claims you make.. Prove your claims - it is not difficult, if these bearings actually make any difference on a bike, prove it.. And no it does not depend on the cyclist - this is something that you can actually measure, otherwise you are talking about subjective nonsense and beliefs.. The only market with more BS than cycling is HIFI.. When somebody pays 1000$ for a powercord I bet you they can hear a difference... Ceramic bearings in bikes are nonsense - just like a 1000$ power cord. Of course - if you are vingegaard chasing 0.15w - yes then go for it.. anybody else 👎
@@robinseibel7540 made up statistics - just like gains with ceramic bearings.
Hambini, Hambini, Hambini, Hambini, Hambini ad infinitum. I’m fed up hearing about the bloke. He has somehow triggered a massive OCD response from you, and you’re giving him much more exposure than he should have (any publicity is good publicity. Right). Just let it go man, and carry on doing what you’re patently good at.
Well I´m interested. If you think this is not important: skip the video and have a glass of water.
It is ok to disagree - but a) i felt it valuable to counter point by point his massively dishonest attack doc - and that just took what it took to get through, and then b) i think there is a lot of value in discussing whether it is true or not around Hybrid ceramic bearings suitability / benefits for cycling. And now having covered this foundation - i can then do vids on bearing hints and tips without triggering people who have been fooled by Hambini's information - i can reference them to here.
100 years ago, there was a man who created a following that we could have just ignored, and mostly did. Where did that silence end-up leaving the world after all those lies?
Now, again in 2024, we have a man in the USA, just as in 2016, who has a following that believe all his lies. Just where could that lead the world if no-one speaks up?
Truth is what we ALL need more of, some, like Adam here, get passionate about upholding truth. Thank you, Adam. 👍
@@davidlilja9180 Thankyou david. Yes i can understand why many are not willing to straighten their own spine against these types of people, but i dont understand those who criticize those that do. Your thoughts are a mirror to mine i think on that. As the old saying goes, all that is needed for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.
We have guy held up by many as hero for having the "courage" to hold companies / people / products to account - well one can't be doing that if they are just making it all up - that is insidious, and that is not what should be allowed to grow like it has in our lovely world of cycling.
It is both fascinating and dismaying to see how popular the likes of Andrew Tate became etc - How? Such unbelievably obviously horrific person - and yet look at the support he gets. And yes - what is going on in USA, honestly i cant even comprehend how its possible.
Watch the video from a couple days ago by You tube channel Legal eagle - that summarises upcoming risk in usa extremely well, very good channel
"VW golf is better tgan a Lamborghini because the maintanance and costs of a Lamborghini are higher than a Golf"
- Hambini logic
Hambini is delusional
Alas no he isn't - he is something much worse. He knows. He absolutely knows. So then the question is why did he put such information out there....
I appreciate one's desire to clear the air so to speak, but personally, I'd rather have the last 10 hours of video/editing/thinking about it spent on testing and more data about chain lubes. Save yourself the ulcer, it's not worth it, who cares anyway, even if one of you is ":right", no one watching these videos can feel a watt or two of possible savings, nor measure it consistently with their 1% margin of error at best power meter or butt dyno.
apologies 10k none of that makes sense to me at all. 1) you didnt have yours and your business' integrity attacked with made up dishonest BS by a high profile person in cycling. 2) In debunking that, people can learn more about the zfc test, as well as find out more about how shockingly dishonest the other party is (i am not the only one he has done this too). 3) i have not been able to make a video on bearing hints and tips previously as Hambini followers would have been triggered regarding ceramic bearings - so it is good to finally just get that covered first showing clearly who is selling them down a river re that information, so then in future i can do a video on groovy bearing knowledge thats actually helpful, and factual 4) testing isnt going anywhere - a lot of testing is private as there are not good options globally for mfg so i am very booked - open tests have been a bit of struggle to get to. In the intervening time as testing continues, i will have some groovy stuff to do on vids soon.
I greatly appreciate the interest for normal content, and i will do my best to provide that for you, but - simply - sometimes in this world things come up that must be dealt with properly and for a variety of important reasons i covered in the prelude. it is also simply against my core nature to allow someone to maliciously and dishonestly attack me / my business and just oh ok - thats fine, let cyclings biggest and most dishonest bully just get away with such behaviour again - vs standing up against such, and standing with others who have done the same.
if you cant support that - the we simply differ, a lot. As the saying goes, for evil to flourish all it needs is for good people to do nothing. Well thats not me. And part of the problem with the world is that is too many people.
In this video in particular - you should be able to see very clearly what he is doing and why, and - if you were previously unsure if HC bearings were suitable for cycling - the knowledge in this video will help that a lot, so it is providing good value on multiple fronts. You should indeed care who is right if one party is constantly lying and misleading their audience to hate on people / companies / products for malicious reasons, and who is a good company / person providing excellent and factual information of use to cyclists. If you dont care about that - again, we just differ, a lot - re our core values, and i am unlikely to be the guy or channel for you.
Is hambini even his name?
It's not the one on his birth certificate. Surprised you needed to ask this.
oooh there is a whole bunch of fun around his name. Pls go to hambini.cc website and have a read of that.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I didn't actually follow any of the links on that site, but 'hambini' does appear to be as dodgy as he has almost always sounded!
40:05 THE DESIGN IS VERY HUMAN
It's jolly unsporting of you to use grown-up logic and verifiable data to attack Hambini's schoolboy essay. I do think, though, that you have made a mistake in thinking that Hambini ever did any testing before producing his Excel graphs. He "calculated" the results, no doubt based on something he read in his tribology book.
that has been a concern of mine indeed as well! Until i actually see the testing protocol and equipment, we have no idea if he didnt just simply enter whatever numbers he liked into his "calculations". It is BONKERS his testing on this is secret. Beyond bonkers. I think for sure a bookie to could run some odds on whether any actual testing took place or not or it was just H's fingers and an excel workbook
How about Chrome Bearings, I believe that they are harder than Stainless Steel Bearings.
Chrome bearings are steel bearings, they are "chromium steel" - the addition of chromium to the steel alloy making them harder and thus longer lasting. Not many bearings "stainless steel" as such - all steel bearings are prone to rust if exposed - ie it is very common for any steel bearing - regardless of quality - to rust relatively quickly if water ingress occurs. Bearings are not generally meant to run exposed, they are meant to run sealed and greased, meaning protection against oxidation is not the primary goal for the steel being used - being hard and tough is. Proper stainless steels can have properties that are not desirable (more brittle etc).
Here is a little information re enduro abec 5 level steel bearings re chrome steel;
Description
Enduro Standard Abec 5 are premium replacement bearings. These are great for hubs, pedals, and bottom brackets.
ABEC 5 bearings feature:
Grade 5 Chromium Steel Balls.
In spec to 5/1,000,000″ (military grade)
52100 High Carbon Chromium Alloy Races .
Ask Hambini
You can if you want some made up nonsense. If you would like to explain how any one of my points is incorrect and why - please do.
If ceramic BBs had durability problems we would have heard about it a long time ago..the trouble is way too many youtube channels and MANUFACTURERS, push crap like oversize pulleys for $600 or $40000 wheels to be cool..a lot of newbe riders get online and drink the koolaid with zero knowledge ...a lube that cleans and lubes..🤣🤣🤣
yes indeed :) And yes there is that but....... people have to remember ALL brands who make products and sell stuff are there to make money and make a profit so they can keep going, pay staff, grow etc etc. Everyone should simply be responsible for their own commercial choices. If one gets somehow sucked into buying OSPW for watts savings vs about 50 other things first - well that is on them. And other times, people just like to pimp their bikes, personalize them with some cool bits etc - its everyones disposable spend - if a set of OSPW is more fun for someone than a bike fit - then its more fun for someone, we aint their mom. As long as someone isnt being actively lied to by a sales rep - its up to each person to be responsible for making their own decisions, and there are online bike calculators etc where one can ok well how much will 2w save me - oh - its like 2 seconds per 40km - hmm is that worth $600 plus labour if im only buying it for the performance claims.
And lastly hahahaha - sorry - i do type fast... a lot of spend on cycling for a lot of people, vs other spend - its not much..... there is a demographic a lot of products are marketed for that has disposable income for fun stuff on bikes. Ie, i cant tell you what the average annual vehicle depreciation is for a lot of friends, cycling friends, cyclists i know well etc is - but its a lot. How many people dont blink at losing 20k or even 50k or more, in a year, in depreciaton on a car - thats normal. but oooh what did you spend on X for your bike are you crazy.... Ie i have no logical justification for my Bastion - but i will have it and love it for decades, and it was bloody expensive, but also the same cost as many peoples one year car depreciation - so there's that :)
Do i need titanium cranks on my mtb - no. Do i love them every time i ride my bike - yes. Could i easily afford them. Yes. = Fun. Did i need to go xx-sl for my t-type upgrade on my race mtb - no, i am old and slow. Do i love it every time i ride it = yes. Could i easily afford = yes. Fun. Etc etc :)
If any such fun purchases were going to be a financial stretch - i wouldnt do them, i would buy 2nd tier, 3rd tier level - whatever makes sense for my budget. Would i still love what i had - yes. I am just lucky enough to have fun discretionary spend on fun bike bits, and there is a lot like me in the world. So its not necessarily drinking some koolaid with no knowledge although im sure that happens, sometimes it can just also be for the love of bikes and fun stuff and fun discretionary spend on a hobby and sport we love. Others might like fishing and have a fkn nice boat, and do they need that triple evinrude outboard set up with 750HP - no, fun = yes. And the suv to tow the boat. and so on. Do what you love how you love to do it, and be responsible as you need to on your own spend and yeehaa.
Nearly 5 hours worth of video over Hambini, tragic really that.
i will bet he spent AT least that much time crafting his dishonest attack doc. It simply took that long because there was so much dishonest bs to correct as well as engineering nonsense. I just went through it point by point. If you think its tragic, perhaps you should direct that at the creator of that amount of dishonest rubbish to be corrected no?.
Get some fairness and some basic morals Archieman and direct your tragic feelings where they should go - how about to the person who reams others based of BS for clicks and narcissism - thats not tragic to you?
@@archieman123 Well worth it
Just because hybrid ceramic bearings have extra hard races, it doesn't make them more durable than full steel bearings. Because the relative hardness of the materials is the major factor in how fast they wear. Just having the hardest possible materials isn't better. They need to be well matched with each other.
I didnt say that. I said that they are simply and obviously hardened enough such they the races are not quickly worn by the harder ceramic balls as advised by hambini. The hardness's are obviously correctly matched, or why would the mfg make them.
@@zerofrictioncycling992wrong…ask Schaeffler.
@@cpt.slackbladder3187 what does that even mean? So you are saying only schaeffler has cracked how to make hybrid ceramic bearings? Perhaps then you would like to ask SKF and all the other major industry players how they are making HC bearings with claims on many times the lifespan vs their own steel bearings?
Why oh why would all the major industry players being making HC bearings, with claims of greater lifespan and efficiency? I dont understand your point. HC bearings are a solved item. Obviously. And at no point did i say just have the hardest steel / race possible etc. I just said - as is 100% true - the quality mfg of HC bearings obviously know how to make the races sufficiently hardened.
I am sorry i do not know what point you are trying to make. Watch the video perhaps i am extremely certain whatever concern you have is covered.
The SKF group video th-cam.com/video/3rOCZCv40E8/w-d-xo.html discusses how grease life is superior in HC compared to full steel bearings. HC bearings also perform much better in low/poor lubrication conditions which is shown at 2458s . I can't include a 2nd link as YT removes my comment.
I'm not disputing your concerns with his methodologies and somewhat dubious results (encompassing acres of "commercial-in-confidence" bullcrap): I've come across plenty like this in the bike industry, including when I was a journo for an Australian bike magazine, publicly disputing the borderline fraudulent findings of certain cycle fit protocols promoted by certain well-known identities which were of course correct because they were ex-pros, national level coaches and they said so. If I hear the phrase 'mid-foot cleat position' being used in anything except a joking tone ever again I will spit my dummy really really far. However, 6 videos in, this is starting to look like a vendetta, obviously by him against you, but reciprocally by you against him, and is not doing your good reputation any favours. The old saying: "You never win when wrestling pigs: you both end up covered in pig filth, and the pig loves it" springs to mind. Also, the cartoon showing the guy in front of a computer, & when his wife says come to bed, he replies "I'll be up in a while: there's somebody who's wrong on the internet I have to deal with". & if it's not Chipmunk Hambone and the Stinky Fruit Venereal, it'll be someone else. OTOH, as my dad is fond of saying: "If you're not making any enemies, you're not trying hard enough". (at what you're doing, not deliberately being abrasive, as my teenage self had to have it unpacked).
When I saw the nearly hour-long runtime of this instalment I thought to myself "Do I really want to sit through another hour of listening about Hamboney's obvious jiggery-pokery, his evidence-free/light 'engineering' assertions yet again, when it's obvious that he's a crank and a shonk? I'm sure that there's something better that you could do with your time Adam, and I might wait for your wrap-up (in a condensed version!) of the (Ham)bones you have to pick with Mr. Chipmunk. You're not Robinson Crusoe in that respect, as I'm sure that you're aware. Otherwise, keep up the good work!
Thanks for taking the time to a) watch and b) provide considered feedback.
For context on this one - i have wanted to do some video's on bearings for a long time, as it does fit in the low friction drivetrain focus by zfc - but i have avoided all this time because i cant do video's on bearings and hints and tips without discussing hybrid ceramic bearings, and then there is a whole swathe of people convinced they are just outright snake oil thanks Hambini's information - and thus without covering that topic off first, any vids would be a mess in the comments.
There will be future focus on another area of his - and it you think it is a vendetta, and think less of me for it - at the end of the day i cannot please everyone / balance this right for all. I need to follow my own core beliefs and compass. We have a man who is viewed as a hero by many as "having the courage to hold X to account etc". Well, he isnt holding anyone to account when he is just making it up. I find that an insidious, malignant affront to the cycling world, and i will be doing my part to help more people know who he is and what he does. I dont care if its one person in a thousand, or how much negative flak i get - i am going to do stand up and do my part.
The initial vids - it just took what it took to get through that much of BS document. Whatever time i took to do those vids, i am pretty sure he spent at least as much time crafting that attack doc. And my responses are point by point specific to leave no doubt (to those with working noodles) on any point.
Since he triggered things with his attack doc, this free'd me up to finally get this video done so i can talk about bearings without being accused of being the one to trigger drama - so from me, its all win win win, and i hope that concerns re me vs hambini aside, if you had any doubts about information on HC bearings suitability in cycling i have hopefully helped there too.
Personally, I do not have any expertise to determine who is correct on this issue. Maybe you can post some links in the description or under this comment to help me look into it further. I have avoided ceramic bearings because of the Hambini video and not knowing better or have any sources of information. Maybe I did save myself some money even though I would have been happy to pay an arm and leg for ceramic bearings if I can conclusively figure out whether they are better myself. I guess I'm a cycling marketing teams wet dream. But I do try to look at more 'obscure' sources online and maybe Hambini lead me to an incorrect conclusion.
You are not the first Hambini has attacked, and this drama on TH-cam isn't the first either. I don't know if you have seen the videos from Reginald Scot. He is a bike mechanic on TH-cam who got into a very public spat with Hambini too. I think the issue with Hambini is, he just isn't willing to do any introspection. When confronted, he can only double down and respond aggressively. I think that alone disqualifies him as an honest authority on anything. I mean I don't agree with with Reginald on everything. e.g. he recently did a piece on rim vs disc brakes. I am firmly in the disc brake camp. He did a video and then a follow up, which appeared to be quite intellectually honest. I get the same feel from you.
In my head, I wonder, did he did make a mistake in his initial testing, then in his haste to gain viewers, posted his results. When challenged, he couldn't bring himself to admit fault? Is that what happened? Who knows, but I don't find him to be intellectually honest.
Apologies, this is a rather cold and dispassionate read on the whole thing. I remember you talking about threats to your wife and child and this must be a huge emotional drain and I am sorry that this is happening to you.
In the future i will go over discussion on when HC are potentially worth the cost or not. If you have avoided HC - you havent dudded yourself really as quality steel is fantastic. But for some (avid racers - those riding a lot in harsh conditions) the benefits and extra durability and wear life of quality HC can be a real benefit.
But before i can chat about that - i first had to cover off why that information by Hambini is utter BS, it goes against all other information - both from industry and well over a decade of very successful use in cycling - and so it if he wants to substantiate his position on HC - he needs to not have his testing secret that sits behind the only data that exists saying they are not suitable for cycling.
It is entirely likely that you do not at all need to pay an arm and a leg more for HC. It is entirely likely that quality steel is perfect for you and all you will need. Simply the information that HC is crap, is - well - crap. And definitely some cyclists will and do get some great benefits (like me for instance).
@@zerofrictioncycling992 at the level I'm cycling at, I'm sure it makes negligible difference if I have high quality steel vs hc bearings. But I guess just knowing you have a premium product gives a pretty strong placebo boost 😂
@@jrmhng yeah for sure - for many its just a thing they do to pimp their bike a bit for some fun discretionary spend, for others you sometimes get ceramic speed etc included in certain wheelsets, or OEM with some frames BB. For avid racers they often will go ceramic - even at recreational level - again its just their hobby they are avid about, so pimping ones bike a bit often comes with that - but for others - especially those of us that ride a lot of wet offroad in winter / winter mtb racing / cx racing - the benefits then REALLY shine vs steel.
The main thrust of this one as price vs benefit for whom really is a separate discussion - is simply to debunk the info that HC are snake oil and faster wear and soon higher friction as pitched by Hambini and his secret squirrel testing producing results that go against all other knowledge on HC bearings.
Hambini is living rent free in your head LFC…
He is right - ceramic bearings primary use if for high rpm applications - closer to 100000rpm than 100rpm… companies selling “hybrid” ceramic bearings to cyclists should really have their margins scrutinised more closely….
You do not see cars being fitted with ceramic wheel bearings …. I wonder why…
they are looking at hybrid ceramic for cars now - especially EV's - for the improved efficiency. To date - why would a person purchasing a car pay say 1k more for vehicle to have more efficient bearings - they would never notice that in an ICE vehicle, but for improved range for EV's - it is looking closer. It is cost, not suitability to purpose as to why they are not used in cars. Already most bearings last the life of the vehicle, so the extra wear life is generally not needed etc etc. So there - you wondered why - its easily answered, and you can also google that yourself to read more from bearing mfg. And even without cars using currently, that has absolutely nothing to do with the extremely proven and successful use and advantages in cycling, for a very long time. It sucks when the real world + basic information about the advantages of hybrid ceramic simply exist. I dont think you have even watched the video.
(also - you think we need to be talking 100,000 rpm for hybrid ceramic to be a think? there are so, so many applications they are used at very sane rpms. And guess what - if they last a long time clocking up 1 mil revolutions in 10 minutes, they last a long time taking 185 hours at 90 rpm to get to the same. Obviously.)
Re the rent free - cant you guys come up with something better? He maliciously attacked me, and in an extremely dishonest manner. That was covered as it should be, and so whilst i am here - as part of helping ensure it is easy to know what person is what - it is absolutely time to cover what caused me to be on his hit list to begin with, as well as turn the spotlight around to where actual issues lie - which is not at ZFC.
This is not the point. It is not so much the question if hybrid ceramic bearings are ideal for cycling, or even better for high RPM applications.
It just shows that the claim that hybrid ceramic bearings are bad for cycling is unsubstantiated.
There is really no data supporting that claim.
Adam even says that steel bearings are perfectly fine for most.
However, practical evidence and Hambini actually contradicting himself is debunking his claim.
Schaeffler has done it (solving the problem of race-wear), and so have others. He even said how.
Doesn't Enduro offer life-long (limited) warranty on hybrid bearings? I wonder if they know what they are doing, as a producer of bearings for many industries, or if they should listen to Hambini.
@dominicbritt I have two Hambini BB so I´m an Hambini fan however the suspicious testing along with Hambini´s unusual silence about his charts and test protocol says more than I would like to admit about it´s validity. ZeroFriction might have striked a nerve.
Hybrid ceramic bearings can outlast steel bearings in some cycling applications, maybe all. A user might find that using longer-lasting hybrid ceramic bearings saves money in the long run as the result of greater durability. Moreover, a design spec doesn't mean a given product won't work perfectly well in an application that wasn't specified in the design. The list of tech and/or products commonly used for things beyond their original design purpose is very long.
@@wsbygt I am sure your BB's are great, and also the quality steel bearings - they are honestly perfect for many many cyclists who do not need to spend 3x the amount to go hybrid ceramic. Simply the information around hybrid ceramic from H is utter BS. They are proven superior wear life (again, for quality HC), and efficiency - so there are benefits to be had for some (avid racers, those of us riding frequently in harsh conditions etc). And it is BONKERS that his testing to back his claims is secret. Bonkers.
You are full of yourself...
how so? By providing sound logic and thorough explanations backed by proof? Vs unsound logic backed by secret testing? Compared to that guy, you are saying im full of myself hahahahahahaha
Adam's testing & research has benefitted thousands and thousands of cyclists, so his positive reputation is secure. Your attack is pretty silly, and really reveals more about you than it does about him.
Let me guess, 2 watts gains but twice to three times more expensive?
Irrelevant and waste of money.
I'm a waxer however because it's make my drivetrain last longer(supposedly according to your data and other testimonies) and my hands cleaner.
Like with waxing it doesn't have to be about watts saved. It can be about durability. Durable products that cost more can possibly cost less in the long run through not having to repeatedly replace less durable options. It's up to the user to weigh the pros and cons though.
I said at the start the discussion around if they are worth the cost is a different discussion. this is a technical look at whether they are suitable or not suitable and hambini's information to prove they are not - which is utter BS, and unacceptably based on secret testing that makes no sense.
In short - for a road rider who only rides in dry weather who is going to keep their bike for 2 to 5 years and doesnt care about a couple watts - absolutely - why spend the extra vs quality steel - quality steel is fantastic.
But thats not everyone. Many also ride frequently in harsh conditions - and the ability to just clean and re grease a HC bearing vs replace a steel bearing - i can tell you wow wow wow thats better.
Lot's (thousands) of tests have been done with different hardness of materials. It is well established science that softer materials get worn disproportionately by harder materials. In your previous video I posted data that ceramic is approximately twice as hard are the hardest steel. I haven't tested any bearings personally, but my money is on ceramic hybrid bearings wearing faster then full steel and full ceramic bearings.
I think the onus is on hybrid ceramic bearing manufacturers to provide convincing testing data to proive that theiir bearings somehow defy science. I don't see why averyone else has to believe that hybrid ceramic bearings are durable unless proved otherwise. Science works the other way around.
In my previous comment I assumed Silicon nitride balls which you confirmed in this video is what the hybrid bearings use.
Until you factor that normally it is the balls in the bearing that do the majority of the wearing, so now you drastically slow that, and you have hard wearing races, and you have - as already demonstrated by industry information - a much longer lasting bearing. It is not defying science.
Have you even watched the video? Obviously the major bearing mfg making hybrid ceramic bearings - such as one of hambini's favoured companies SKF - who claim 4x longer lifespan - know what they are doing.
Perhaps watch the industry information section at least and have some knowledge before you make comments that are just objectively incorrect. Or google hybrid ceramic vs steel and lifespan etc (or... you know, watch the video you are commenting on before you comment..)
It´s getting boring with all this Hambini rant... Just ignore him. No one cares about his channel... Produce relevant stuff again. Please!