For what you have in the engine, the double row timing chain is all you really need...with the exception of a 2nd dowel pin to keep that issue from happening again. What you have looks to be working well...no need to reinvent the wheel.
One of the great things about Australia is we don't need to salt our roads 4 months out of the year. We do still get rust though just it's different origin.
If you can machine a hole through the broken off dowel you can fill it with oil and use a punch that's the same size as the hole you drilled to tap it out. The punch will try to compress the oil and in turn will push the broken dowel out backwards. I've had to do this with bushings in blind holes before and it works pretty good.
Don’t worry Kyle, mustangs don’t go well on packed snow. Mine was ok with studded snows. 1996 mustang cobra with 315’s in the rear is put away till spring. 52 inches of snow has fallen in 5 days.
Just wanted to say good on you for actually reading through your comments. Most TH-camrs think they know more than any of their viewers so they dont bkther reading comments or if they do they dont take note if whats said. So thats good you actually read through them and actually thought about what was said, because not all of us are idiots talking like we know shit when we really dont. At least its something semi-simple and not a rebuild.
Man that’s great. Def a best case scenario! Put a Danny b belt drive on it, it works really well and looks nice. I have a couple bump sticks laying around if you need one. Bullet, I think in the .780 range. Glad it was minimal damage, you’ll have it back going pretty quick!
I'm a Gm guy buy like them all, 1 bolt and one dowel, i think stock form ok 👍 , but the after market manufacturers should offer a 3 bolt +dowel pin cam and timing gear!
I know you and I were talking about pistons kissing the valves. Glad to see it didn't severely destroy anything. Hopefully just some valves and some upgrades. All good brother 💪💪
Could be a damper issue too.. or just running it up on the 2 step too much. 2 steps and hard limiters are so fucking hard on valvetrain and cam drives. Instantaneous accelerations..brutal.
I forget how many lengths of those pins there are for sbf engines. You definitely need the right length. So contact your cam company and make sure you have the right length dowel pin. It's a big deal on a sbf. Good luck!
I had that happen to a new rebuild years ago the cam bolt was also stretched and the dowel brim on start up Lucky I had no damage at all just had to replace the dowel and new bolt
Was the cam bolt loose? Looks like to me you turned the cam bolt by hand? If you have the 7/16th cam bolt just put some RED LOCTITE on the bolt and tq the bolt to 70ft lbs and you will never have a problem! I have the ARP 7/16th cam bolt. If you need the part # I can give it to you. I forgot to mention if the cam is double pinned and the cam bolt comes loose you will shear both cam pins, I have been working on small block fords for 25 years and you learn from mistakes 😊 I have the same combo as you except I have Afr 205s heads and I'm supercharged, making 1210 rwhp and running 5.00s in the 1/8 & 7.90s in the 1/4 @ 3000lbs.
The bolt got loose because the pin broke the valves hit the pistons because engine was off timing on valve timing events … it’s a common issue on sbf with some decent spring pressure …
@georges8secpony I will have to disagree with you, from my experience, the pin is there for alignment and the bolt is what keeps the tension on the timing gear and prevents the timing gear from moving. If the timing gear bolt becomes loose the slightest bit the timing gear will move back and forth and break the pin then all hell breaks loose.
@ im pretty sure he knows how to trq a cam bolt and use red loctite … I have seen this on one of my clients 347ci street engine about 15yrs ago .. same story like above … high spring pressure high rpm solid roller sbf its ideal with the dual cam pin and the bigger can bolt for sure … sometimes things just fail its not always the installers fault … btw I have been building engines for over 25yrs and I have clients running 4.20s on 275s sb cars … so its not like I have don’t have any experience on what I’m saying …
I follow Neo mustangs and he just went through the dowel pin issue. Have to double pin them , at y’all’s power level. I hope I don’t have any issues. He was running his for like half a year or so chasing lower power issues before the bolt loosened up and bent valves.
Keep on going brother! I've got a question for everyone. Why do people talk like Camshaft install or removal is like Brain surgery? I've been doing it for 40÷ years. You can't hurt the lobes or the bearings unless something is already wrong. If it falls down inside, it's laying on the camshaft core.
Well that’s not bad it just sucks pulling it all the way and bam no testing. But money wise I’m sure you’re happy. So back to work make that money to go fast. Good luck tell dad black vette Wally says hi
probably a good idea to at least spray down the bottom with some fresh water , maibe even allready spray some of the nuts and bolts that you need to get off with a rust penetrant just to prevent most of the rust starting when the car dries up with the roadsaelt on everything sure the garagefloor will get wet but then again its going to be dry by the time youre going to work on it
Guess it's time to upgrade to a 7/16 cam bolt and double pin the cam. Also need red loctite on bolt. I just had a similar failure except the woodruff key on my crank slid out.. no fun.
While the dual pin deal is common and recommended by many well respected engine builders that is not the complete answer. it is absolutely critical that adequate clamping force from the bolt is achieved. i have seen where the pin has been to long, ends up sticking out the front of the cam gear and holds up the washer. I have seen soft washers flex and lose tension, i have seen bolts that bottom out in the cam before they are tight on the gear.. All possible contributors to this unfortunately common failure point on ford cams,, not just small blocks. the dual pin scenario is not a magic cure for all.
In the red car you should do a Godzilla or a coyote Gen 2 or 3 coyote keep it stock put bigger injectors and a twin turbo setup. That would be cool I know it always comes down to money I was just thinking of a coyote because you don't have to do nothing to them. 1000hp stock coyote
@@Motorsportkyle Do it..the initial cost may be higher, but no more valvetrain issues like a LS or SBF, and you can let it est up high with no issued. There's a learning curve, especially with the heads/porting, but embrace the future. 2V pushrod has peaked..there are almost no gains left to find, and a whole bunch of negatives (valvetrain). You are obviously going to take over SMRE someday..get ahead of the curve now.
Was that capscrew bolt that was retaining the timing chain to the camshaft a grade 8 bolt? Doubtful that the pin sheared first. My guess is the bolt loosened and the pin shearing was secondary.
Yeah, most guy like the one dowel idea. But obviously your little skinny dowel is not enough to give you full pleasure in the long term. Kudos for it being hard enough to fracture like that. You must really love your...car. Full disclosure. I might be a Chevy guy . But I did have a '68 Mustang convertible. I sold it because the local Ford guys didn't like the way that I drove the thing. It was in really good shape and, well, it's a Ford...I didn't treat it that way. I replaced it with a E30 convert. People so of rather see you thrash those things.
Do you think you forgot to tighten the cam gear witch sheared the dowel pin!? Will you mark ea piston to the hole you pull them out of because of the line to line coating being worn to ea cylinder specifically now??
Why change the double roller chain drive it didn't fail you. The dowel pin did, Double it, as you should do with the gear and belt, but I feel the belt may be more forgiving?
So that is what east coast snow looks like, kinda wet. I saw a guy use a sprinkle that follows over a hose looked like a tractor t parked his car over the hose and ran the sprinkler back and forth cleaned it like a pressure washer. Ever seen that?
Kyle , Australia calling , mate stick a Ford Barra in it . We would love to see that , plus Steve is doing that Barra in the shop . 🎉❤Barra Power . Let's Go 😊
Love the video..have to ask what I'm sure has been asked many times. Do you really like ford products or did it start during a hate dad rebellion time like we've all had..lol. just curious,not judging really
I am a Mopar guy so I was curious where is the dowel pin? Now I know. A Mopar cam has a longer snout than yours and uses a keyway. I have never seen one sheer. I am an engine guy so I'm curious about everything engine related. Does the belt drive use the same dowel pin? If so, you still have the same problem I believe?
Dowel pin ? Or is it a shear pin ? I have worked on equipment with shear pins built-in to them. So when bad things happen it acts like a fuse and tries to keep damage in check
Belt drive is better as it takes a lot of harmonics out of the entire engine. That is where gears are poor, worse than a chain. That cam bolt was loose. There was your problem
As a 69 year old ford guy, I say stick a Cleveland in there. Thanks for the video. You guys rock.
I concur 👍🏼
For what you have in the engine, the double row timing chain is all you really need...with the exception of a 2nd dowel pin to keep that issue from happening again. What you have looks to be working well...no need to reinvent the wheel.
One of the great things about Australia is we don't need to salt our roads 4 months out of the year. We do still get rust though just it's different origin.
You're doing some great videos Kyle, and I liked seeing "Juror #7" slither in for a shot....
Love this Ford channel
Love how dad come in and looks proud and also has the look “shoulda gone SML”
$100k engine vs a junkyard sbf. Kinda apples to pumpkins don’t you think
@@joshuaearnheart2756Yep!
Way to trigger the sbf guys!
@@joshuaearnheart2756 Yep!
@@darylmorse triggered? Hardly..
If you can machine a hole through the broken off dowel you can fill it with oil and use a punch that's the same size as the hole you drilled to tap it out. The punch will try to compress the oil and in turn will push the broken dowel out backwards. I've had to do this with bushings in blind holes before and it works pretty good.
Weld something to it
I seen guys push the pilot bushing out of the back of an engine with bread
The blue car looks so much better with just some new headlights. 👍
Kyle you have a positive attitude on this. I'm sure you were looking forward to sick week as all of us were to see you run.
Nice disassemble…. Kyle talks just like Steve.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
dude this was some good stuff here, love you guys on how you are so down to earth at the same time light years ahead of most , keep up the good work.
Very Smart....Well spoken young man.
Great that you have minimal damage...Time to freshen up your engine!
Don’t worry Kyle, mustangs don’t go well on packed snow. Mine was ok with studded snows.
1996 mustang cobra with 315’s in the rear is put away till spring. 52 inches of snow has fallen in 5 days.
I would use the tig to weld on the end of the dowell to get something to grip the pin with vice grips
Good explanation on camshaft removal, Had me LOL.
Just wanted to say good on you for actually reading through your comments. Most TH-camrs think they know more than any of their viewers so they dont bkther reading comments or if they do they dont take note if whats said. So thats good you actually read through them and actually thought about what was said, because not all of us are idiots talking like we know shit when we really dont. At least its something semi-simple and not a rebuild.
Man that’s great. Def a best case scenario! Put a Danny b belt drive on it, it works really well and looks nice. I have a couple bump sticks laying around if you need one. Bullet, I think in the .780 range. Glad it was minimal damage, you’ll have it back going pretty quick!
Good video well done Kyle and Nate, look forward to seeing the motor refreshed and back at the track.
Fords Rule !
At breaking dowel pins. lol Chevy never would have done that. Retained with 3 bolts and a dowel pin. SMH
I'm a Gm guy buy like them all, 1 bolt and one dowel, i think stock form ok 👍 , but the after market manufacturers should offer a 3 bolt +dowel pin cam and timing gear!
@@stevearsenault4898 👍
I know you and I were talking about pistons kissing the valves. Glad to see it didn't severely destroy anything. Hopefully just some valves and some upgrades. All good brother 💪💪
john kasse puts twin dowels on his cams just because of that
Could be a damper issue too.. or just running it up on the 2 step too much. 2 steps and hard limiters are so fucking hard on valvetrain and cam drives. Instantaneous accelerations..brutal.
3 bolt cam gear setup would be much better
Yep I made fixture to double dowel mine, And also there are different hardness dowels.
Too hard has a tendecy to shear, softer is more bendy before complete failure..
@@LondonRednek Yep you have to balance that
Good idea to check for any rod slop, just in case.
carbide end mill to spot a flat on the broken dowel then carbide drill or end mill to remove the rest of the dowel
Everybody is a drifter when its snowing! Makes me feel like Taylor Ray! But enough jibber janber back yo the video!
haha gotta love t ray lol
good video, thanks for sharing what went wrong
Tough break. Glad that's all it was. Fix that cam n go racing. It lasted how long? Lotta street miles too. Save up for the fancy stuff.
I forget how many lengths of those pins there are for sbf engines. You definitely need the right length. So contact your cam company and make sure you have the right length dowel pin. It's a big deal on a sbf. Good luck!
Let’s see a big block go in. I’m sure you can find one out of a box truck just needing a refresh. A cam and intake.
I had that happen to a new rebuild years ago the cam bolt was also stretched and the dowel brim on start up
Lucky I had no damage at all just had to replace the dowel and new bolt
Excellent work
I’ve run double dowels on most of my solid roller SBFs in past depending on spring setup.
Cool 😎 video...keep living the dream ✨️
If you can’t remove the dowel in the cam , some machine shops high amp. electrode that can shatter the pin.
Was the cam bolt loose?
Looks like to me you turned the cam bolt by hand?
If you have the 7/16th cam bolt just put some RED LOCTITE on the bolt and tq the bolt to 70ft lbs and you will never have a problem! I have the ARP 7/16th cam bolt. If you need the part # I can give it to you.
I forgot to mention if the cam is double pinned and the cam bolt comes loose you will shear both cam pins, I have been working on small block fords for 25 years and you learn from mistakes 😊
I have the same combo as you except I have Afr 205s heads and I'm supercharged, making 1210 rwhp and running 5.00s in the 1/8 & 7.90s in the 1/4 @ 3000lbs.
The bolt got loose because the pin broke the valves hit the pistons because engine was off timing on valve timing events … it’s a common issue on sbf with some decent spring pressure …
@georges8secpony
I will have to disagree with you, from my experience, the pin is there for alignment and the bolt is what keeps the tension on the timing gear and prevents the timing gear from moving.
If the timing gear bolt becomes loose the slightest bit the timing gear will move back and forth and break the pin then all hell breaks loose.
@ im pretty sure he knows how to trq a cam bolt and use red loctite … I have seen this on one of my clients 347ci street engine about 15yrs ago .. same story like above … high spring pressure high rpm solid roller sbf its ideal with the dual cam pin and the bigger can bolt for sure … sometimes things just fail its not always the installers fault … btw I have been building engines for over 25yrs and I have clients running 4.20s on 275s sb cars … so its not like I have don’t have any experience on what I’m saying …
Lucky mate. Minimal damage equals no major spending.
Look forward to seeing it back together and will you put it back on the dyno??
@@chrisobrien9334 yes! Probably the hub dyno but im not sure. Maybe an engine dyno would be interesting
@ Just for piece of mind before you go racing. Good luck mate. Support from Victor Harbour 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
I feel your salty road pain, I'm from Canada
I follow Neo mustangs and he just went through the dowel pin issue. Have to double pin them , at y’all’s power level. I hope I don’t have any issues. He was running his for like half a year or so chasing lower power issues before the bolt loosened up and bent valves.
Keep on going brother! I've got a question for everyone. Why do people talk like Camshaft install or removal is like Brain surgery? I've been doing it for 40÷ years. You can't hurt the lobes or the bearings unless something is already wrong. If it falls down inside, it's laying on the camshaft core.
Well that’s not bad it just sucks pulling it all the way and bam no testing. But money wise I’m sure you’re happy. So back to work make that money to go fast. Good luck tell dad black vette Wally says hi
the old mans, i told you so face was priceless
Thanks for sharing the journey with us... That looked an awful much like Sugar Mamma in the back ground.
probably a good idea to at least spray down the bottom with some fresh water , maibe even allready spray some of the nuts and bolts that you need to get off with a rust penetrant just to prevent most of the rust starting when the car dries up with the roadsaelt on everything
sure the garagefloor will get wet but then again its going to be dry by the time youre going to work on it
Don't know why but the pin is rare to break on anything else with that kind of spring pressure.
Called it love to see it usually happen at 500 hp lol let alone 1800 usually dual pinning with some titanium dowel or tungsten same with the crank
Loose camshaft bolt . 🙆♂ Hope to see you up and running soon. A good tig welder can build up the dowel pin get it out.
Guess it's time to upgrade to a 7/16 cam bolt and double pin the cam. Also need red loctite on bolt. I just had a similar failure except the woodruff key on my crank slid out.. no fun.
Good solid imfo in this video .
Could you add another dowel? Kinda like the dual key way crank snouts for blower stuff. But I've never seen a cams dowel sheared.
While the dual pin deal is common and recommended by many well respected engine builders that is not the complete answer. it is absolutely critical that adequate clamping force from the bolt is achieved. i have seen where the pin has been to long, ends up sticking out the front of the cam gear and holds up the washer. I have seen soft washers flex and lose tension, i have seen bolts that bottom out in the cam before they are tight on the gear.. All possible contributors to this unfortunately common failure point on ford cams,, not just small blocks. the dual pin scenario is not a magic cure for all.
Definitely needs 2 pins and a 7/16” fine thread bolt with hard washer👍 😁
In the red car you should do a Godzilla or a coyote Gen 2 or 3 coyote keep it stock put bigger injectors and a twin turbo setup. That would be cool I know it always comes down to money I was just thinking of a coyote because you don't have to do nothing to them. 1000hp stock coyote
@@boostedperformance4529 yeah the coyote swap is pretty attractive to me 🤔
Do a 4.6 mod motor nothing sounds better or closer has 100s of smashed 2006 and up mustangs
I'm pretty sure he's well north of 1k already, and the coyote will need all the same stuff he's already done at that point. It'd rev easier though.
@@Motorsportkyleyal should build a set of billet heads for the coyote
@@Motorsportkyle
Do it..the initial cost may be higher, but no more valvetrain issues like a LS or SBF, and you can let it est up high with no issued. There's a learning curve, especially with the heads/porting, but embrace the future. 2V pushrod has peaked..there are almost no gains left to find, and a whole bunch of negatives (valvetrain). You are obviously going to take over SMRE someday..get ahead of the curve now.
Talk to Dewey, he knows a guy who can fix that. Make sure you use the right kind of "snake oil" when you reinstall the cam on that sick horse.
Great content thanks for sharing
It would be nice to machine the dowel for a bigger stronger one. You should have some availability to do that.
Don't feel bad about weather Kyle it's 17 degrees in Kentucky tonight .
The smart a## face of Steve, priceless! 😂😂😂
Hello Kyle, gives you some time to consider your options!
1,320 👍's up Kyle Morris thank you for sharing 🤗
Ditch the small block, slap in a brand new SMX! That’s what Steve said with that expression!
I don't think he has 125k to spend on an engine, let alone, where you can only get replacement parts, from one supplier!
@ it only takes like 80 hours to run the program! Next time Steve leaves out of town he should fire up the cnc!
Get the valves done and a new dowelpin
Was that capscrew bolt that was retaining the timing chain to the camshaft a grade 8 bolt? Doubtful that the pin sheared first. My guess is the bolt loosened and the pin shearing was secondary.
Yeah, most guy like the one dowel idea. But obviously your little skinny dowel is not enough to give you full pleasure in the long term. Kudos for it being hard enough to fracture like that. You must really love your...car.
Full disclosure. I might be a Chevy guy . But I did have a '68 Mustang convertible. I sold it because the local Ford guys didn't like the way that I drove the thing. It was in really good shape and, well, it's a Ford...I didn't treat it that way. I replaced it with a E30 convert. People so of rather see you thrash those things.
Do you think you forgot to tighten the cam gear witch sheared the dowel pin!? Will you mark ea piston to the hole you pull them out of because of the line to line coating being worn to ea cylinder specifically now??
Why change the double roller chain drive it didn't fail you. The dowel pin did, Double it, as you should do with the gear and belt, but I feel the belt may be more forgiving?
So that is what east coast snow looks like, kinda wet. I saw a guy use a sprinkle that follows over a hose looked like a tractor t parked his car over the hose and ran the sprinkler back and forth cleaned it like a pressure washer. Ever seen that?
Nice Cameo DAD!!!!! Lol! edit. New scriber, you missed major carnage.
The dreaded dowel pin on the small block ford's.. I hate it got ya man.. but don't feel alone its gotten many of us.. lol
Cool. 100% Do it.😀
When you showed the engine turning over i saw the first rocker on the passenger side moving, I fully expected you broke the camshaft
Tri I pin will help stop that problem.
Looks like a SML for Christmas 😂
Take sugar mama to sick week?
Also you run Antifreeze/coolant while on the track?
Every time that’s happened to me I always bust the front off the camshaft
Pretend to break stuff to add more power = win 😊
We ford guys usally dual pin the timing gears.
Now double pin it along with the upper sprocket & you’re good to go.
Kyle I have no idea I never work on a Ford with that being said
A bad day racing is a better day than working
Kyle , Australia calling , mate stick a Ford Barra in it . We would love to see that , plus Steve is doing that Barra in the shop . 🎉❤Barra Power . Let's Go 😊
*Amsterdam was added to the call. Yes, Barra for the win.
Barra is missing 2 cylinders!
@@STUART5.7 but lighter and better power for Drag and Drive .
Would be pretty sweet but I don't see him doing it since SM is mainly about V8s
@@kenmackay9276 a barra is not lighter than a small block Windsor
Love the video..have to ask what I'm sure has been asked many times. Do you really like ford products or did it start during a hate dad rebellion time like we've all had..lol. just curious,not judging really
Murica F'Yeah 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
Maybe a 363???
Glad it’s not catastrophic and just a few valves. What was wrong with the other Mustang that was making it Skip you never said.
I drive a roll pin in, and then another inside that roll pin
I am a Mopar guy so I was curious where is the dowel pin? Now I know. A Mopar cam has a longer snout than yours and uses a keyway. I have never seen one sheer. I am an engine guy so I'm curious about everything engine related. Does the belt drive use the same dowel pin? If so, you still have the same problem I believe?
Love blueberry, great dragger. Glad you didn't have a bunch of damage brother.
Cherry...?!??....not chili pepper.?....cherry??....good grief....they just gonna bust innit.....oh my.....😂
What BROKE my Small Block Ford? i know why it broke grand-mom test drove for ice-cream! like pops wagon! it don't fail it great machine to keep!
Dowel pin ? Or is it a shear pin ? I have worked on equipment with shear pins built-in to them. So when bad things happen it acts like a fuse and tries to keep damage in check
I sheared a pin in my driveway loading the car on the trailer
Kyle, what oil pump in your twin turbo sbf? SV or HV?
So, do you double dowell the next drive, or key it?
I weld a nut on the dowl and pull it out.
Probably have to use a small endmill and peck it out.
single cam bolt curse.
Belt drive is better as it takes a lot of harmonics out of the entire engine. That is where gears are poor, worse than a chain.
That cam bolt was loose. There was your problem
You broke the camshaft
❤❤❤Dewey❤❤❤
you can run radiator fluid on the track?
@@kljunatic8157 no you cant! I put coolant in it before it got freezing outside
A cameo by Dad!