Even though this campaign is my favourite, it's only because I love Tzeentch. I disagree with "deleting" the winds of magic manipulation cause kairos would be WAY worse. Units are hard to get though and spamming chaos warriors is usually the play, which sucks. Economy sucks as well. Kairos SHOULD have EXTRA spells that you choose, not just trade spells, that kinda sucks as well. Changer of ways has AMAZING effects, I would make it less expensive though, you never get to use "break alliance" or "force war". CA won't do a thing about it though because dlc already made
I'd like Kairos to have 2 spell wheels like Manfred. One would be his standard Lor of Tzeentch, second could be formed from 2-3 fragments equiped at the time.
They actually mentioned in their thank you thing for the end of the year post that they plan to update the shadow of change races, although they mentioned it wouldn't be huge changes
@@parttimehero8640 This, when I go against Kairos as Kroq Gar I fear his magic pool, not the caster itself AND him stealing my settlement 5 turns behind my armies
The reason that the inefficient building structure can survive is the inaccessibility of the Southern Chaos Wastes. It caters to Kairos really well. He can have a fragile and high economy and play his plans in the mortal world while keeping his own realm safe. The only thing I'd really want to change is the cost of the changing of the ways. The prices are insane. I wanted a war between Kroq-gar and Wurrzag and I just couldn't afford it.
Teleport stance is a great tool to prevent the HEs from sailing along your coast waiting for their chance to come in and raid your settlements. Just wait for them to get close to your coast, and BAM, teleport onto them. Without it, you would have to sit in ambush stance and hope that they land and get caught, which is low % at the beginning of the campaign.
I honestly think either the southern chaos wastes need to be expanded/redone or Kairos needs to be moved somewhere else, it truly is just a horrible location to play in.
Kairos should get the Ku'garth treatment making his skill line less point heavy, plus, changing the fragments system. Campaing wise tzeentch needs to be more fun their economy the cultists camps being reworked to be more in line with khorne and nurgle and the income building should reach level 5 in my opinion. Research needs a reworks to be made more meaningful plus Tzeentch needs to have a way to replenish ammo and WoM as faction mechanic based around the province corruption and magic. Right now horrors quickly become useless as frontline units.
On the long distance travel issue in the Southern Wastes for Kairos' faction: While it is true it is a long distance and one that initially plagued me also because it makes defending it harder while you are only on 1 army, I found that basically it's completely avoidable and if you're force marching to each end and back, you're doing it wrong. What you really should be doing is setting up empty cults so that you can instantly teleport to that location with Kairos' army. When I started doing that, it was no longer an issue at all. I think most people fall into the trap of embedding the cultist on turn 1 because everyone does that in their other campaigns. I realised after quite a few attempts at this campaign, you should be sending him to the neighbouring Tzeentch faction's settlement and making a cult there so you can teleport back there when you reach the Slaanesh faction and complete your province. The cultist provides nothing in battle - he's very weak and only becomes useful when he gets summons and his special skills. I think trying to level him up to get to that stage at the cost of not making cults until you get another +1 capacity (takes ages) is basically not worth it. All he does early on is provide you with a tiny bit of extra campaign movement range IIRC. You'll be glad to use another unit of Furies or whatever you want instead. After you make your first cult, disband that starting cultist and make a new one (if you need the building, build that first). You're going to be on 1 capacity for a while and 15 turns between making each cult is too long. Disband and get a new cult faster. What I did was make the 2nd cult in the Slaanesh faction's capital and when I'm done with Oxyotl, I teleport back there and get to work on them. And I avoided war with them by trading the nearest settlement to them for non-aggression and transferring it back (should probably have a reliability penalty but there isn't one). I also avoid war with Teclis by transferring his minor settlement to the Skaven/Kroq-gar (transfer to you, then sell to them) and getting his faction into a war with them or the other Lizardmen faction to the north. That will keep them busy until I'm ready. Eventually I make a cult over there but he's honestly tied up in so many knots from those shenanigans I never hear from him again and find that the Lustria factions are the ones who declare war.
I find with Tzeentch (kairos specifically) for me it was more fun when I engaged in the schemes/changing of ways and stopped trying to play it like all the other factions. I kind of liked the conditional building effects too, it added a different dimension to Kairos campaign. Money and replenishment can be a challenge until you get multiple provinces and can manipulate the winds of magic. I appreciate everyones mileage may vary. Given that everyone's unit recruitment tier building has been lowered so I think that might be needed. His extra spell line needs looking at as do nearly all victory conditions. I like the asymetry of the campaigns and victory conditions, but as you say Festus, really? As for replenishment - it isn't great to start off with but it is Slaanesh needs some love way more than Kairos- one bad fight in unpleasant terrain it's quicker to re-hire an army than wait for replenishment.
Kairos needs a rework of his tech tree, both in terms of how it fits together and some of its bonuses, Kairos starting position is the only real issue and i think alot of it could be fixed in one of two ways, either let him use the portal the same way that belakor does (its the magic faction it just makes sense that hed be abel) or have a sea lane near each end of the southern wastes so that you could go from one end to the other without having to trek across it.
The tech tree for Tzeenthc makes no sense; it's just confusing. If they intended to make something caotic as the Lord of Change ways of thinking, they achieved it... at the cost of the fun... it's not fun at all
Thank you for elaborating further what issues you have with Tzeentch, that clears things up more and with some things I certainly agree. I myself take issue with the change of ways being so extremely expensive, that breaking an alliance or forcing war between nations will NEVER come into play during a normal campaign. Declaring war on someone and tactically forcing peace between you and one of the allies that joined in is WAY more effectice and even allows you to take the entire eastern part of the southern waste and build up your army while delaying Oxyotl. You have a bit of a trick start, but it's very managable if you abuse the force peace and transfering of settlements. Splitting the capitol into mortal and daemon buildings is utter trash. All it means is that you start with mortal buildings for the extra growth and end with a tier 5 daemon building for better defenses. Absolutely useless and either deserves to ne changed or down right removed for Tzeentch (Kairos). The way you obtain different spells and additional passive effects is pitiful at best and utterly useless once you unlock the blue scribes. Redundant and outdated. Kairos is one of the wealthiest monogod factions in the game. You can turn the entirety of the southern wastes (with exception of one tier 5 settlement for recruitment) into a money printing industry and easily defend your borders with your remote locations and the second legendary lord you gain on turn 3. Furthermore, monogods are sacking factions, who benefit greatly from sacking settlements. Kairos in particular can sack a settlement, then occupy it, sell it to a neutral faction for insane profit, steal it with the change of ways and sell it once again for even more profit and a potential ally. As mentioned before, forcing war amd breaking alliances is too expensive to ever do anything. In all of the campaigns I've played so far, they're not even worth researching - if they weren't in the way of free teleportation. Kairos' faction effects are stinky at best and an insult in reality. They impact his faction little to none. Furthermore is Tzeentch the ultimate loser of the DLC god factions, as he only has two lords. Vanilla bird himself and the instant campaign win boy as DLC, completely missing an FLC lord along the way like the other gods do. In terms of unit variety, it's like with every major chaos god. You fill your army with expendable trash until youvreplace them later with overwhelmingly powerful units and sack your income from your foes. Kairos has the advantage of his remote location. That allows him to make several income focused territories, which pay much faster for his armies than the other monogods except perhaps the maggot lord. Tzeentch in my opinion has three powerful playstyles: cav armies, sorcerer armies and chaos warrior frontlines with ranged spam. Especially the cav army exceeds in winning endurance fights. Cycle charging due to the barrier (especially with level 7 sorcerers that upgrade the barrier replenishment) allows you to bite off more than others could hope to chew. The spells are pretty great, the amount and low costs allow for pretty much unlimited magic, especially with the blue scribes in play. Tzeentch has issues, I'll gladly admit that - but it only requires a soft rework and a few tweaks here and there. It's not an awful race, just not a really finished one. It has a few weaknesses - but you can easily outweigh them with your strong aspects.
Daniel needs a rework. Needs buffs, a transmog system for his gear so you can really make him look the way you want. He needs items and ancillaries and he should also be rolled into Woc and just given access to that roster. Daemon prince's are ex mortals that are worshipped by mortals and kind of hated ny Daemons but begrudgingly followed. Daniel should have access to way more mortal troops. Daemon prince's are such an interesting concept in Warhammer and a player designed one was a great idea and should really be given far more attention
Even though this campaign is my favourite, it's only because I love Tzeentch. I disagree with "deleting" the winds of magic manipulation cause kairos would be WAY worse. Units are hard to get though and spamming chaos warriors is usually the play, which sucks. Economy sucks as well. Kairos SHOULD have EXTRA spells that you choose, not just trade spells, that kinda sucks as well. Changer of ways has AMAZING effects, I would make it less expensive though, you never get to use "break alliance" or "force war". CA won't do a thing about it though because dlc already made
I'd like Kairos to have 2 spell wheels like Manfred. One would be his standard Lor of Tzeentch, second could be formed from 2-3 fragments equiped at the time.
Kairos as the magic user has the same problem as Mazdamundi both should be a force of nature when it comes to magic... But they don't feel like it
They actually mentioned in their thank you thing for the end of the year post that they plan to update the shadow of change races, although they mentioned it wouldn't be huge changes
@@parttimehero8640 This, when I go against Kairos as Kroq Gar I fear his magic pool, not the caster itself AND him stealing my settlement 5 turns behind my armies
I can sum up what Tzeentch has been missing in 3 simple words...
Engrimm Van Horstmann
The reason that the inefficient building structure can survive is the inaccessibility of the Southern Chaos Wastes.
It caters to Kairos really well. He can have a fragile and high economy and play his plans in the mortal world while keeping his own realm safe.
The only thing I'd really want to change is the cost of the changing of the ways. The prices are insane. I wanted a war between Kroq-gar and Wurrzag and I just couldn't afford it.
Kairos can go anywhere through the cults, while Sarthorael builds the empire slowly.
Good point on the map, why is everything so far inland on such a thin strip of land.
Teleport stance is a great tool to prevent the HEs from sailing along your coast waiting for their chance to come in and raid your settlements. Just wait for them to get close to your coast, and BAM, teleport onto them. Without it, you would have to sit in ambush stance and hope that they land and get caught, which is low % at the beginning of the campaign.
I honestly think either the southern chaos wastes need to be expanded/redone or Kairos needs to be moved somewhere else, it truly is just a horrible location to play in.
Kairos should get the Ku'garth treatment making his skill line less point heavy, plus, changing the fragments system. Campaing wise tzeentch needs to be more fun their economy the cultists camps being reworked to be more in line with khorne and nurgle and the income building should reach level 5 in my opinion. Research needs a reworks to be made more meaningful plus Tzeentch needs to have a way to replenish ammo and WoM as faction mechanic based around the province corruption and magic. Right now horrors quickly become useless as frontline units.
On the long distance travel issue in the Southern Wastes for Kairos' faction:
While it is true it is a long distance and one that initially plagued me also because it makes defending it harder while you are only on 1 army, I found that basically it's completely avoidable and if you're force marching to each end and back, you're doing it wrong. What you really should be doing is setting up empty cults so that you can instantly teleport to that location with Kairos' army. When I started doing that, it was no longer an issue at all.
I think most people fall into the trap of embedding the cultist on turn 1 because everyone does that in their other campaigns. I realised after quite a few attempts at this campaign, you should be sending him to the neighbouring Tzeentch faction's settlement and making a cult there so you can teleport back there when you reach the Slaanesh faction and complete your province. The cultist provides nothing in battle - he's very weak and only becomes useful when he gets summons and his special skills. I think trying to level him up to get to that stage at the cost of not making cults until you get another +1 capacity (takes ages) is basically not worth it. All he does early on is provide you with a tiny bit of extra campaign movement range IIRC. You'll be glad to use another unit of Furies or whatever you want instead.
After you make your first cult, disband that starting cultist and make a new one (if you need the building, build that first). You're going to be on 1 capacity for a while and 15 turns between making each cult is too long. Disband and get a new cult faster.
What I did was make the 2nd cult in the Slaanesh faction's capital and when I'm done with Oxyotl, I teleport back there and get to work on them. And I avoided war with them by trading the nearest settlement to them for non-aggression and transferring it back (should probably have a reliability penalty but there isn't one).
I also avoid war with Teclis by transferring his minor settlement to the Skaven/Kroq-gar (transfer to you, then sell to them) and getting his faction into a war with them or the other Lizardmen faction to the north. That will keep them busy until I'm ready. Eventually I make a cult over there but he's honestly tied up in so many knots from those shenanigans I never hear from him again and find that the Lustria factions are the ones who declare war.
I find with Tzeentch (kairos specifically) for me it was more fun when I engaged in the schemes/changing of ways and stopped trying to play it like all the other factions. I kind of liked the conditional building effects too, it added a different dimension to Kairos campaign. Money and replenishment can be a challenge until you get multiple provinces and can manipulate the winds of magic. I appreciate everyones mileage may vary.
Given that everyone's unit recruitment tier building has been lowered so I think that might be needed.
His extra spell line needs looking at as do nearly all victory conditions. I like the asymetry of the campaigns and victory conditions, but as you say Festus, really?
As for replenishment - it isn't great to start off with but it is Slaanesh needs some love way more than Kairos- one bad fight in unpleasant terrain it's quicker to re-hire an army than wait for replenishment.
Kairos needs a rework of his tech tree, both in terms of how it fits together and some of its bonuses, Kairos starting position is the only real issue and i think alot of it could be fixed in one of two ways, either let him use the portal the same way that belakor does (its the magic faction it just makes sense that hed be abel) or have a sea lane near each end of the southern wastes so that you could go from one end to the other without having to trek across it.
Tzeentch factions able to use the portal is a great idea!
The tech tree for Tzeenthc makes no sense; it's just confusing. If they intended to make something caotic as the Lord of Change ways of thinking, they achieved it... at the cost of the fun... it's not fun at all
Brettonia is also in desperate need of rework - it didn't saw any changes since Warhammer 1.
Thank you for elaborating further what issues you have with Tzeentch, that clears things up more and with some things I certainly agree. I myself take issue with the change of ways being so extremely expensive, that breaking an alliance or forcing war between nations will NEVER come into play during a normal campaign. Declaring war on someone and tactically forcing peace between you and one of the allies that joined in is WAY more effectice and even allows you to take the entire eastern part of the southern waste and build up your army while delaying Oxyotl. You have a bit of a trick start, but it's very managable if you abuse the force peace and transfering of settlements.
Splitting the capitol into mortal and daemon buildings is utter trash. All it means is that you start with mortal buildings for the extra growth and end with a tier 5 daemon building for better defenses. Absolutely useless and either deserves to ne changed or down right removed for Tzeentch (Kairos).
The way you obtain different spells and additional passive effects is pitiful at best and utterly useless once you unlock the blue scribes. Redundant and outdated.
Kairos is one of the wealthiest monogod factions in the game. You can turn the entirety of the southern wastes (with exception of one tier 5 settlement for recruitment) into a money printing industry and easily defend your borders with your remote locations and the second legendary lord you gain on turn 3. Furthermore, monogods are sacking factions, who benefit greatly from sacking settlements. Kairos in particular can sack a settlement, then occupy it, sell it to a neutral faction for insane profit, steal it with the change of ways and sell it once again for even more profit and a potential ally.
As mentioned before, forcing war amd breaking alliances is too expensive to ever do anything. In all of the campaigns I've played so far, they're not even worth researching - if they weren't in the way of free teleportation.
Kairos' faction effects are stinky at best and an insult in reality. They impact his faction little to none. Furthermore is Tzeentch the ultimate loser of the DLC god factions, as he only has two lords. Vanilla bird himself and the instant campaign win boy as DLC, completely missing an FLC lord along the way like the other gods do.
In terms of unit variety, it's like with every major chaos god. You fill your army with expendable trash until youvreplace them later with overwhelmingly powerful units and sack your income from your foes. Kairos has the advantage of his remote location. That allows him to make several income focused territories, which pay much faster for his armies than the other monogods except perhaps the maggot lord. Tzeentch in my opinion has three powerful playstyles: cav armies, sorcerer armies and chaos warrior frontlines with ranged spam. Especially the cav army exceeds in winning endurance fights. Cycle charging due to the barrier (especially with level 7 sorcerers that upgrade the barrier replenishment) allows you to bite off more than others could hope to chew. The spells are pretty great, the amount and low costs allow for pretty much unlimited magic, especially with the blue scribes in play.
Tzeentch has issues, I'll gladly admit that - but it only requires a soft rework and a few tweaks here and there. It's not an awful race, just not a really finished one. It has a few weaknesses - but you can easily outweigh them with your strong aspects.
Daniel needs a rework. Needs buffs, a transmog system for his gear so you can really make him look the way you want. He needs items and ancillaries and he should also be rolled into Woc and just given access to that roster.
Daemon prince's are ex mortals that are worshipped by mortals and kind of hated ny Daemons but begrudgingly followed. Daniel should have access to way more mortal troops.
Daemon prince's are such an interesting concept in Warhammer and a player designed one was a great idea and should really be given far more attention
I disagree