I think one of raiders strong suits was that he was basically a hard counter to dodgeattack spam with his hyperarmor, and to some parts i think the hyperarmor should be kept that way, because if you keep doing dodgeattacks and keep trading light damage for a raider heavy, you honestly deserve it
I liked his hyper armour, it was nice to feel the power of being a big raider picking up people charging them to walls kneeing them in the face, trading with the big axe I personally don’t like the ha changs
I liked the hyper armour but it was just there to become monke, it was kinda funny, but it's not more healthy since in teamfights I can't just throw heby
@@clankatron4831 Not really, the heavies were good for reads if you thought your opponent wasnt going to respect your chains and try to start their turn early or rely on dodge attacks to retake their turn. The heavies are a monkey-check for both sides
@@clankatron4831 You could indeed throw heavies in teamfights,because of the HA you could externally hit a lot of people, therefore interrupting their attacks and being a huge danger for every hero with a dodge-based kit
@@ndukwui We shouldn't respect a chain cause he has hyper armor at the beginning, that's forced. It basically gimped missed deflects into dodge attacks. Trying to dodge the attack and punish it isn't monke brain, whiffing heavies knowing that HA will carry you is. It also helps with consistency as every other hero as the same kind of HA on feint timing and this game DEFINITELY needs more consistency across the hero roster.
@@Taladays37 sorry but those missed deflects into dodge attacks negate raiders kit with the TG changes. The soft feint into storming tap and gb miss or bounce off, respectively. Chaining into instead light will miss aswell. The only thing raider could do would feint to neutral which freeze has shown us. The team wanted to make him similar to Warlord and Kensei, where both have access to moves where HA trades with opponents and work against those with dodge attacks (Warlord's light heavy combo and Kensei's finisher lights and heavies).
i really really hoped my main Raider would get good changes and not this.. the only good change i saw was the zone stamina cost change, the thing that was holding him was the trading potential and now its gone
@@nou8830 with his 12 stam zone, it really is mostly giving him the advantage. I was for sure thinking they'd reduce the damage, but the fact they didn't is really good
a rework means they change the aspects of a character and give them better purpose. This? this is an insult to the word. This is a numbers tuning. stam down, speed up. 1 extra chain and enhanced tap compare that with shinobi's changes. shugoki. aramusha...
Something worth noting so that you can hopefully bring it to the devs attention, two Shinobis can infinitely stun lock someone without the person ever being able to get out until they get revenge. If one Shinobi gets someone with sickle rain, in the middle of it the other Shinobi can backstep a light and do the unblockable sickle rain and get them again, and they repeat the loop until death or revenge. Hopefully you see this and bring it up in your Shinobi video.
Raider's only buffs was the zone stam cost decrease and superior light property on his tap... They nerfed his HA and removed the variable timing on his Tap and then proceeded to buff Stampede for no reason??? I dont understand how they want to make normal attacks offense viable if they dont get rid of the goddamn white flash and then nerf what makes stotming tap even remotely useable.
The thing is they basically didn't even buff stampede charge, it had a smaller hit box so you had to be closer to the opponent to even hit it, and it was way easier to whiff.
I think one extra buff that Raider could get is to make storming tap medium hitstun, so Raider can chain into his combo zone with better frame addvantge.
i really really dislike the armor changes, i dont know if its just my personal playstyle but raider in the testing grounds feels completely unplayable to me, i can respect that maybe theyre changing him to a more mix up dependent character but i loved the heavy trading playstyle and i got pretty good at it lol and it feels horrible to no longer be able to do that, i dont know if im alone in this but i feel like they changed his core fighting style and i dont like that
Exactly. His best tool and also the most used one was the heavy trading. Now he can use more zones but he can still be poked out of them in gangs and having the hyper armor fucked like this, removed any possibility for him to actual resist in gangs.
Raider still needs a roll catcher, better recovery on chain zone , I would like storming tap counting as a chain starter and the tg hyper armor feels very bad even if it was maybe needed . Right now he won’t ever compete against warlord or kensei as the devs entended
my opinion trying to bring everyone up to warlord standard is wrong everyone should be on raider standard and the game would be a lot better without too much spam and ofcourse players with recoveries so they can actually be punished if they do a mistake .
TL:DR I think raider has been nerfed rather than buffed Honestly, I've mained raider throughout my whole time playing the game, and except for the zone changes, it all feels awful. Storming tap straight up feels abysmal to use, the animation looks awful now, and the lack of a variable timing makes his offense feel 1) more boring because now all I can consistently use is the zone, and 2) easier to predict, because storming tap is such a big part of raiders offense. And in 4v4 now, he's even less fun to play, because it's so easy to knock him out of any chains now, which applies to 1v1 as well, because his dodge attack is awful, and his hyperarmour changes make him like every other character having to feint to neutral all the time now, whereas one of the most fun parts of raider was being able to trade with dodge attacks, and trade in general. Don't get me wrong, the hyper armour changes are healthy for the game overall as it creates a proper sense of balancing for hyperarmour characters in the game. But taking that away and not giving him anything to replace it, or giving him a proper offense feels awful now. I was really hopeful for the raider changes off the back of the last TG, but now, I'd honestly rather them leave the current build in then implement the changes, if anything was took from it, comboing zone and zone stam are pretty fun now
Il be honest if they had to tell me choices between this new raider or keep the old one...I would rather keep the old one these so call so re-work is not enough this is first and last character i play when im on this game and at this point am even less motivated to go on because of that
Disappointed with these underwhelming changes. Admittedly, Raider was the one I was looking forward to the most for a rework (even before the previous patch). Thanks for this video so that I'll temper my expectations now.
I'm an Orochi main and I was more exited for the raider changes. Dissapointing to see him only get this much. I thought these 3 would be bigger changes.
Best thing about Raider: Hitting some dodge-spamming Roach or Tiandi with a 34 damage heavy. Remove that and he is pretty much a OS Highlander with an UB zone.
Exactly which is the difficult on a dodge spamming orochi? Lool my dude can't earn a free heavy from a easy heavy? And Highlander, hitokiri, kensei, JJ, Gryphon and Warmonger can hit the tiandi dodge
That would definitely make him unique. If I’m not mistaken, no hero has access to an unblockable that can also chain into another one. The only two things that come close are Nuxia’s traps and a Kensei using the unblockable feat.
@@nuke1863 i think he meant in terms of the chain zone after the neutral zone being able to combo into things , JJ can’t do anything with the 2nd unblockable except feint it or let it fly while raider can go into gb or stunning tap and then continue the chain from there
I have 30 reps on raider so I think I have a pretty good feel for his play style. Raider was not viable at all but he was still a fun and very satisfying character to play in 4v4 because of his hyper armor trade heavies in team fights. He was also enjoyable because you could mix people up with the variable timings on storming tap in 1v1 scenarios and get good damage by trading heavies but now he feels terrible… you get interrupted constantly in ganks and his awful recoveries make him feel useless in most situations. There’s no point in picking raider imo when so many other characters can do his job better. Not a fan of the rework at all other than the lower stam on zones
thats the thing, they should give him chase + peel, ontop of reverting back his hyper armour anyway. i hate how the devs did this, its just forcing us to settle for less.
@@why8298 kensei has a much harder time getting to them and to be fair, all of his hyper armor is on third hit chain finishers and doesn’t lead into any mixups as his hyper armor heavies aren’t softfeintable. I think he is balanced.
Or just a monster duellist to begin with, shjt team fighter should mean duel machine but no bash, shitty dodge attack storm tap, and a repetitive mixup with some really questionable animations and forcefully being put back to neutral with dodge attacks when the devs are making dodge attacks heavy parries so your read is rewarded with 12 damage light attack into a mixup that can again be dodge heavy attacked, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Stamina changes , zone flowing into chain and the light speed are perfectly good changes . However the hyper armor delay seems to take away something Raider was unique for. I believe that should be reverted and he gets back the original hyper armor timing . In addition to fixing the bug where he can't input his fury zone sometimes, he also needs to have less recovery for his fury zone , and have frame advantage after landing it so he can be on bar with other heros who get rewarded with frame advantage after finishers . Giving his storming tap more hitstun window so he could flow nicely into his finisher fury without interruption . The neutral zone into fury zone chain . and finally the ability to chase and catch back rollers more consistently
If you could go zone into zone it'd give him something unique and be able to compete with other characters. Find a middle for raiders hyperarmor because this doesn't feel good at all. Change some of the hitstun properties so he can chain into his zone without being lighted out of it if it's chained from a light or storming tap. Speaking of storming tap, give a massive buff to his running storming tap so it catches rolls and can peal like berserker. Reduce the massive recoverys as well and allow him to use his hyperarmor properly to trade with dodge attacks without getting that gb as well, honestly give raider some of his old animations back because these light ones are terrible.
@@Bova-Fett i'd rather it actually function than just give it ha, cause with it's long ass recovery I can imaginr taking a dodge attack and then a heavy afterwards because of the atrocious recovery.
@M9dno kensei also has like 6 different options while in that unblockable. Heres the list >let it fly >gb >hyper armor light softaint >hyper armor heavy softfaint that is faintable >dry dodge softfaint out of the unblockable >dodge attack softfaint out of the unblockable Do not compare raider and kensei when kensei is still leagues better. Onto another point, while I agree ha on the unblockable isn't a good idea but I do not agree with your reasoning.
As a hero with no confirmed damage, pushing his hyper armor timing back feels pointless. In order to get damage by trading, you have to rely on your opponent to make a mistake. To nerf that with no compensation is just kind of, like, why? Not to mention, since he has no opener, everyone does whiff light to heavy or zone. So they’ve effectively nerfed the opening abilities of a hero with no opening abilities. But hey, I can zone and light attack from the top now, yay I can finally use the kit I already have, thanks Ubi!
WARNING: *Rant Inbound* Coming from a semi-competent rep 35 raider main with around 350 hours on the char, they should have given him: - Hyper armor start up on his stampede charge (won't get as easily interrupted during group fights, thus making him a relevant alternative to warlord) - Hyper armor start up on his unblockable finisher (not neutral) - Bump up the stamina cost from 12 if they keep the neutral zone chain starter (increase to 15 for neutral and 25 for zone finisher due to hyper armor start up) - Keep current hyper armor start up (not the testing grounds version) - Enhanced lights on his neutral lights only to assist with transitioning into his prevalent combo pressure (not combo lights, that'd be a nightmare) - Revert his soft feint timings (nerf back to 500ms and bring back the variable timing) - Revert his neutral zone damage back to 22 (currently 24 in the testing grounds) or even lower it due to newly implemented neutral zone chain starters and stam cost - And finally, replace his god awful 4th feat "slippery" with something fuckin 4th feat worthy (and maybe tweak his unblockable recovery time idk im shy uwu~) Couldn't care less about his enhanced soft feint lights or his 1000ms to 900ms top heavy finishers Lol. Anyways, for a character who has no "opener" or bash, they nerfed the only highlights in his kit (being storming tap and his hyper armor) and justified it with adding already needed improvements. Explanation below // Variable timing on his soft-feint top lights added a layer of depth for mixup potential; you don't entirely know if he's going to do another storming tap immediately after, delay it, gb, or go through with the heavy/unblockable. Now, it has a strict, predictable, and janky looking timing/animation window. Their "reason" for getting rid of his variable timing was because it was reactable (500ms) so they decreased its time down to 400ms and, thus, got rid of the variable timing because "it wasn't necessary" since they buffed the attack speed. But I'd (and I'm sure many other raider mains will agree) argue that it's even more parriable or "reactable" due to its strict and predictable timing. Don't even mention his hyper armor. Like Freeze said in the video, any light or dodge attack can interrupt raider's combo-pressured chains (which was a very large and effective part of his kit). If the devs wanted to make raider an "alternative" (Lol) to Kensei and Warlord, they should have at least kept his variable timing and the hyper armor. What's so laughable though is that they nerf raider's hyper armor even though they left zerk's hyper armor untouched (who, keep in mind, got faster attacks and improved chase pressure from his most recent patch update). PLEASE SAVE OUR RAIDERS FREEEEEZE!!!!!!!!!!!
If they were gonna nerf the hyperarmor they should’ve made storming tap undodgable and they should’ve also reduced his chains zone recoveries it makes no sense
please freeze, ur my only hope of having raider get a proper rework. his rework is so bad, that i wouldnt even call it a rework. a pathetic attempt and im disapointed.
Oof, ask us Lawbringer mains how we feel. But don't worry, unlike Lawbringer Freeze actually has a reason to try and get Raider improved. My personal opinion is I hope he stays this way, just to spite Freeze and his vendetta against Lawbringers.
@@srafnos2073 Nope! If he wants to bash a characters viability when they have zero 1v1 offense then I sincerely hope Raider stays like this. My opinion is that he's viable now. Just like Freeze's opinion is LB is viable. Why advocate for someone who wants to see your main character stay left in the dust?
Raider needs the instant hyperarmor at LEAST after heavies and storming tap. Maybe not after zone or light. The chain zone needs better recovery and needs a damage nerf. I kinda miss being able to change the soft feint timings for the storming tap. I could do it very early in the heavy or I can delay it to the end of the heavy.
I’m more comfortable with the current Raider than testing grounds Raider, mainly cause I like doing my top heavy chain, but that won’t really work anymore now that he’s more vulnerable to interruption. I also like current storming tap more than testing grounds storming tap, variable timing and all.
tbh his new storming tap feels worse lol without the delay the 100ms increase doesnt help at all (im on ps4 btw and i parry it at a much higher rate id say from about 25%-40% of thr time bc of the delays i now parry it at a 70-90% of the time lel) 100ms dont matter if you know it happens at the same time so yeah i havent playdd shinobi nor orochi
@@Sethleon-qf8tl i mean Yeah that is defintly a true And good point But If Your Fighting a Raider No Matter What At Some Point he/She will go for it but bc of the variable timing it was Quite hard to parry But i think easy enough to block But now that its a fixed timing idk well see how he feels (TLDR: You Have a Good Point But 100% of the raiders will go for one even before the TG at some point and now it feels worse) But i probably just need to get used to it more Raider Mirrors Are Painful tho but so is any hero mirror so yeah
stampede charge is still easily react-able and gets dodged a lot, also give him better recoveries, better chase & openers, and/or fix his hyper armor. why does hito get so much HA and raider is fuxked.
Has anyone else realized that freeze is so fucking amazing? A video game must always have someone like freeze. I am so happy that freeze is ours. #thanksfreeze
Thanks freeze for educating the community on these matters. Personally I think the raider changes are good, shinobi is a hot mess that still needs a LOT of tweeks and changes. Orochi is also good, even though I don't really like all heroes getting a bash, still it's better than nothing.
@@aiellamori when fighting shinobi, you spend more time on your knees than a damn stripper in LA. He can get wall splats off of every dodge kick heavy followup, which leads into his stab thingy (I don't remember the bleed name). He keeps knocking you around, the amout of damage he deals and the ganking potential is too much. The bleed from wall splat and gb should be instantly removed.
@@aiellamori Dude Shinobi is a bash spam hero now. He literally needs to do a bash to enter his combo! And he gets his best combo after a counter. So expect Shinobis to turtle a lot!
@@erikfaru9780 I mean, all you need to do is dodge it, the opener bash is very expected. And he doesn't need to start with a bash, you can open with a light or heavy, because you can still backflip from those attacks, do your ranged and pull forward. I don't think Shinobi would turtle at all, his moveset can be used ina ton of other ways
Now these are a good rate of reworks (albeit need a few tweaks imo) I kinda want an animation overhaul. At this rate, too many hero’s will have good kits but strange animations. I hope they go back and add that last bit of polishing to really cement the changes.
I wonder if this would work. Shinobi after a roll can chain into finisher heavy or his combo (may be neutral) light. Raider should have a special chain link after a stunning tap. His light after a storming tap is enhanced, and has armour 100ms into the move. Raider can trade with dodge attacks and the light would count as a chain light so he can still go into a heavy, light, and zone. The light can be slown down to 533-600ms so that it can be baited out and punished on almost all levels but I would keep the move at 500ms. Also, if there is a needed delay window so the opponent doesn't I frame it than than that would be added.
I feel like Raider will need more time to cook in the oven. Some of these changes are good, but only was a step sideways not forward for his balance or fun factor. And that level is still bad.
I think that tg shinobi has a little bug where if he wallsplats you with the kick, he will get the guaranteed damage of the ranged heavy and in most cases i have experienced can roll forward and get a sickle rain before the enemy recovers from the wall (wallsplatting with the kick is also very easy since for some reason it has insane knockback)
Here is my stance on raiders changes and what im probably typing in the survey again: First the Things i Like: + 400ms Storming tap and Not being interrupted on Block is great for His offense and getting Into His chains + the neutral zone being a Chain starter is awesome too, so He doesnt have to awkwardly stare at You With His god awful zone recoveries + didnt know about this, but the fact that TG Raider cant be poked Out of His zone is really good too + finally Lights being standardized to 500ms was needed imo but these changes should have been there a Long Time ago IMO. Now to the Things i really dislike: - both zones have 12 stamina costs: i can See why they would give neutral zone the same stamina costs Like a heavy. But the 38 DMG zone? Seems a bit too good imo. Either turn the DMG down to like 30/32 (i would prefer that) or make the stamina cost higher. - If the neutral zone should function as alternative heavy (e.g. GB punish) why is its damage lower (Not sure If 20 or 22) than Most standardized heavies (24)? - obviously being lighted Out of HA heavies makes the HA on them obsolete. But i Cant really tell how to solve this "I trade through your Attack and GB you" problem tho - the already mentioned awful recoveries for the Chained zone. Either they lower the recoveries of it or let him chain right after it again (i would prefer that If they would make the Chained zone Not 12 stamina cost) My conclusion: Speaking of His flow and getting Into His offense they made a good step forward but there is still Work to be done to make him a viable Hero If its important: Rep 30 Raider, No competitive player
Shugoki with the unblockable which has HA as well gets the same damage as raiders chained zone. Being 12 stamina doesn't bottleneck Raider for using it. What i am not sure personally is about the neutral zone costing 12 stamina. You can feint it 6 times externally in teamfights as well as to someone who is OOS. I would think maybe a nerf to 18 or 20 stamina would be more appropriate for the neutral zone but still trying out to see.
@@lorddem1659 damn i couldnt believe that shugos charged unblockable only costs 12 stamina ... IMO 38 dmg for a move especially after CCU is a bit too high tho, No Matter If its jorm, shugo or raider. Thats an interesting Thing You pointed out and i accidently forgot. That really might be trouble. Maybe they find a way to differentiate neutral zone on GB and neutral zone from neutral. Cuz i really Like the idea of the neutral zone being his pseudo heavy on GB punish. But being oos against someone Who can feint an unblockable attack 5-6 Times?... Oh lord
Imo, he didn't need the nerf on his hyper armor, and I feel like his zone finisher should recieve hyper armor as well. Other than that, I feel like everything is almost perfect, especially chaining into other attacks from neutral zone
You forgot the mention the Iframes on his dodge stun tap have been considerably upped from the current version of the game. Adds him again to the list of characters of which to feint to neutral from
Bro, just put his HA back to being instant and give him superior lights on all sides. Give him that and he's fine, he'll be so much more fun to play because you can actually do stuff without bouncing off. But his zone chaining into his heavy is pretty cool.
The dodge attacks affect him now is so dumb, and the fact that orochi and so many dodge attack are heavy now instead of lights are just bad changes I don’t understand the process the devs have when buffing I don’t understand if someone could give me a genuinely good explanation as to why it’s good to sit their and feint into heavy parry of a dodge attack for 12 light damage is fun or engaging I’d be glad to here it. I used to have to deal with maybe one dodge spamming kensei or gryphon now it jj hito musha and Shugoki who’s is even worse because your at a stamina loss and he can chain from whiffed headbutt (which is ridiculous, you whiff a bash like his and I make a read I should get a gb)
So Raider's "buffs" aren't even noticable and thats a bad thing. The only one I really felt was his nerf to hyper armor like wtf ubi. That was his purpose big axe dude who punishes dodge attacks and aggressive players. You took the one thing that kep him alive and just spit on it
Have always loved playing Raider, for the S Tier Emote spam mostly but still. It just feels like you have to work so hard playing as him. Compared to all the cheese other characters have. I can for instance just randomly pick Kensei after not playing him for weeks, and easily cheese my way threw most dominion matches.
Raider is easily the worst of the three reworked heroes. They practically gave him scraps while taking away his ability to trade with dodge attacks. I really hoped this “rework” would make him viable again in high level gameplay but Ubisoft just did him dirty compared to others.
With hito's current HA workings and then taking raider's chain HA away seems like they are sending two messages to players. Why give with one hand and take with the other?
I think all raider needed to be viable is removal of option selects because two of them countered him very well, that being dodge parry os and gb parry os, one countering his tap and other countering his gb softfeint
I do also wish he got a few more chains and that storming tap was a opener instead of a chain so you could do a heavy afterwards and not just instantly end your chains.
maybe his armor should apply instantly after landing attacks? I still think he should have some form of undodgeable chain side light/soft feint light/ or damage bash soft feint instead of gb soft feint. something using his old chain light animation.
Freeze, I reported a bug for shinobi where if you sickle rain someone, then backflip, then target swap to another nearby enemy and do a range heavy, then roll towards that enemy, you can't perform the heavy for sickle rain. It would be interesting to see if you can reproduce this bug when getting footage for the shinobi video.
Okay hear me out stampede from neutral kinda like goki’s hug but if he picks you up he can carry you in any Direction while holding you so you could move people into a team fight out out of one or off a ledge or into a wall
I'd like to add, that changing the top heavy speed was bad in my opinion. See, so many people would parry the top heavy early having been conditioned to the timing of the side heavies. So the delay gave enough time to fake out the opponent. Also useful in ganks for when you need a slower timed attack. Objectively better to speed it up? In practice I don't think so - it's like Lawbringer's top finisher heavy delay.
During TG I’ve parried Orochi’s side dodge light as Raider but wasn’t able to get a side heavy punish. Am I missing something or is this a bug? Displayed here: 0:13
@@chacharealsmooth941 lmao but seriously im curious why people would think of orochi being overloaded. IMO they buffed shinobi too much and nerfed Raider too hard. But they almost got Orochis buff on point If it wasnt for the ugly kick animation and the Recovery cancel (100/200ms?) Delay.
@@nuke1863 maybe it has something to do with His dodge attacks essentially being option selects at this point due their GB vulnerability and its now a heavy parry for all of them, They also guarantee like 20 damage. On top of this storm rush is a 200ms indicator attack with undodgeable property, 24 damage and also is feintable, also accessible from front dodge to. Bash is unpunishable, He also has s on his back dodge attack. Hes very broken and requires tweaking
I think HA timing should stay as they are in live, his offensive pressure is worse than live orochi, and I'm saying that while maining orochi. Raider is an average team fighter that relies on trading and surprise stampede charge. Honestly to me I was never able to react to storming tap, so even if they sped it up it doesn't make any more difficult defending against it for me. It's the opposite, since it has fixed timing now, the only thing I have to decide is if I want to parry top. I don't have to worry about parry timing.
-Give raider enhanced lights -stun tap during heavy into softfeint since its 12 dmg whilst leaving normal dodge storm tap at 15 dmg no stun - reduce recovery times and earlier ha cuz he's not wl and trades is what raider was about in team fights
Unrealated: I've been seeing people say that the new Orochi dodge recovery delay is bugged. I want to see where people are getting this, because I really want it to be true and wanna see it myself. Aparently UBI said it themselves but I dunno.
Raiders zone changes are fun, especially since you could chain it if you hit with it in the beginning but that’s about it. His hyper armor changes are wack and feels awkward to the point where you can get knocked out before you even think about your next move is. I had fun with the zone and his charge being faster is cool, but it’s still meh since you can STILL parry his zone after getting kneed in the face. Lights still bounce off of everything and openers are lacking. Such a shame, I wish he got more than this
Can Raider get a dash storming tap from a heavy parry? If that’s the case then he finally isn’t the only hero that gets only 12 damage from a heavy parry.
Yeah honestly Raider needs to get that hyper armor back for sure. If give him his hyper armor he should be able to come up a lot. Especially cause Warlord and Kensei when they do get their hyper armor it feels super early
Being a Raider main since year 2 of For Honor has been awful. I still remembering having to turtle because Raider had no Hyper Amor then. With this rework I was hoping that he would of gotten at least a roll catcher because delaying the stunning tap (i know its called storming tap) isn't a way to catch rollers efficiently. The only good thing that raider got was chaining from his zone and faster stun taps. Raider just falls short in everything. He's a lot fun to play with but I just wish he had something more, you know, and giving him enhanced lights isn't going to make him viable. I know this because you can easily just block raider forcing him to do a zone that can be interrupted or get a light parry from a stunning tap. Its not easy opening up people as raider
I think that raider should get his hyper armor left alone but just make his and warlords the same and i feel like they should give raider hyper amor on his first heavy and give him back his dodge gb as his storming tap is not really a mix up anymore ever since they removed the stun i just feel like that would be better i also feel that they should give him every three hit chain
As a raider main. I liked the stampade, uninterrupteble stunning... storming tap, stamina changes, faster lights and the chain from neutral zone changes. But, why the hyper armor change? And the variable timing stun... storming tap? I liked that😖
I think they should add armour to Raider's zone in chain and reduce the recoveries. Since it would hit much more often I think that the damage should be reduced to 32 or 34.
Keep current buff, light light heavy, variable timed storming tap, hyper armor, give raiders fury late hyper armor, and make every recovery better. And make his storming tap chase
Really like the changes to his top lights, tap, and zone, but I absolutely hate the hyper armor changes. It was raiders one saving grace and I feel like if they don’t give him a few more changes and buffs he’s just going to need another rework in a year or so, same as Orochi a few seasons back IMO.
Like freeze said. It’s a healthy change for the ha nerf. Hito use to have insta ha and that was a nightmare. The only real crime here is that they’re calling his changes a “rework”. He got nothing new and a small nerf. You can compare the changes to the other two TG heroes and they’re definitely reworked. Also a change I would like to see changes to shugoki. Just two. Take the HA off his zone and the 4th feat that knocks people down should not apply to his zone if it’s gonna have HA.
They needed to change storming tap to all sides (like shaman dagger cancel) while keeping its 500ms speed. In additon they should give hyper armor to his chain zone but same startup with testing ground for team fight and lower its recovery to normal state not like this absurd numbers.
Whats amazing is that it feels like storming tap is really just as bad if not worse. Im dogshit and i have dogshit mmr or whatever, but people have been parrying ST more 😳 and it feels more obvious now as well. I doubt it's cuz people are more scared of ST so their cat-like reflexes kick in and they can parry more effectively. I think it may be due to the soft feint changes. Raider regardless of viability still feels off. The zone changes are nice though.
He was already the most underpowered, and they took away his hyperarmor. That was the only think Raider could use against spammers like Orochi. But worry not, Anime pillow huggers got a buff on their Ninja bullshit :D Weebokiri got a dodge heavy, because why not. This game is so fucked.
I know he’s a Vanguard but he has a huge axe, I feel like it doesn’t make sense to speed up his attacks. The changes don’t fit with Raider’s identity in my view
I think one of raiders strong suits was that he was basically a hard counter to dodgeattack spam with his hyperarmor, and to some parts i think the hyperarmor should be kept that way, because if you keep doing dodgeattacks and keep trading light damage for a raider heavy, you honestly deserve it
i agree
And it’s great at countering safe dodge attacks because dodge attacks nowadays are just getting safer and safer
I swear. I hate that they slowed down the hyper armor activation time but I like the other changes
Hyper armor gbs thought
@@cormoranoimperatore8413 You can only hyper armor gb if the person attacks you during it so it isn’t that problematic I think
I liked his hyper armour, it was nice to feel the power of being a big raider picking up people charging them to walls kneeing them in the face, trading with the big axe I personally don’t like the ha changs
I liked the hyper armour but it was just there to become monke, it was kinda funny, but it's not more healthy since in teamfights I can't just throw heby
@@clankatron4831 Not really, the heavies were good for reads if you thought your opponent wasnt going to respect your chains and try to start their turn early or rely on dodge attacks to retake their turn. The heavies are a monkey-check for both sides
@@clankatron4831 You could indeed throw heavies in teamfights,because of the HA you could externally hit a lot of people, therefore interrupting their attacks and being a huge danger for every hero with a dodge-based kit
@@ndukwui We shouldn't respect a chain cause he has hyper armor at the beginning, that's forced. It basically gimped missed deflects into dodge attacks. Trying to dodge the attack and punish it isn't monke brain, whiffing heavies knowing that HA will carry you is. It also helps with consistency as every other hero as the same kind of HA on feint timing and this game DEFINITELY needs more consistency across the hero roster.
@@Taladays37 sorry but those missed deflects into dodge attacks negate raiders kit with the TG changes. The soft feint into storming tap and gb miss or bounce off, respectively. Chaining into instead light will miss aswell. The only thing raider could do would feint to neutral which freeze has shown us. The team wanted to make him similar to Warlord and Kensei, where both have access to moves where HA trades with opponents and work against those with dodge attacks (Warlord's light heavy combo and Kensei's finisher lights and heavies).
i really really hoped my main Raider would get good changes and not this.. the only good change i saw was the zone stamina cost change, the thing that was holding him was the trading potential and now its gone
Remember the option select removal. That's also an indirect buff to raider
i Agree
@@aiellamori yes that too was big big buff
@@aiellamori indirect but like, not unique to raider in the slightest.
@@nou8830 with his 12 stam zone, it really is mostly giving him the advantage. I was for sure thinking they'd reduce the damage, but the fact they didn't is really good
I think it's blown out of proportion to call this a "Rework"
a rework means they change the aspects of a character and give them better purpose.
This? this is an insult to the word. This is a numbers tuning. stam down, speed up. 1 extra chain and enhanced tap
compare that with shinobi's changes. shugoki. aramusha...
@@hanzo5q yeah, they had us the first half, I'm not gonna lie.
Yes they should call it by its name. a "Nerf"
Something worth noting so that you can hopefully bring it to the devs attention, two Shinobis can infinitely stun lock someone without the person ever being able to get out until they get revenge. If one Shinobi gets someone with sickle rain, in the middle of it the other Shinobi can backstep a light and do the unblockable sickle rain and get them again, and they repeat the loop until death or revenge. Hopefully you see this and bring it up in your Shinobi video.
Please read and talk about this its worth talking so the devs can see and fix
Raider's only buffs was the zone stam cost decrease and superior light property on his tap...
They nerfed his HA and removed the variable timing on his Tap and then proceeded to buff Stampede for no reason???
I dont understand how they want to make normal attacks offense viable if they dont get rid of the goddamn white flash and then nerf what makes stotming tap even remotely useable.
The thing is they basically didn't even buff stampede charge, it had a smaller hit box so you had to be closer to the opponent to even hit it, and it was way easier to whiff.
@@Beanpolr easier to whiff but more annoying to deal with... if the smaller hitbox is indeed true.
Regardless, its a bad change nonetheless...
I think one extra buff that Raider could get is to make storming tap medium hitstun, so Raider can chain into his combo zone with better frame addvantge.
the raider smacked me into an ad with his knee. Nice transition though hahahah
Same
Yeah that was slick
i really really dislike the armor changes, i dont know if its just my personal playstyle but raider in the testing grounds feels completely unplayable to me, i can respect that maybe theyre changing him to a more mix up dependent character but i loved the heavy trading playstyle and i got pretty good at it lol and it feels horrible to no longer be able to do that, i dont know if im alone in this but i feel like they changed his core fighting style and i dont like that
Exactly. His best tool and also the most used one was the heavy trading. Now he can use more zones but he can still be poked out of them in gangs and having the hyper armor fucked like this, removed any possibility for him to actual resist in gangs.
Raider still needs a roll catcher, better recovery on chain zone , I would like storming tap counting as a chain starter and the tg hyper armor feels very bad even if it was maybe needed . Right now he won’t ever compete against warlord or kensei as the devs entended
my opinion trying to bring everyone up to warlord standard is wrong everyone should be on raider standard and the game would be a lot better without too much spam and ofcourse players with recoveries so they can actually be punished if they do a mistake .
I'd say make forward dodge storm tap undodgeable.
I think the chain zone can get lower recovery but with that stamina cost the damage needs to go down before that happens, way overtuned now
@@SoI_Badguy maybe !
@@trickmaster32 i would say leave it be as it is like i said everyone just get the raider treatment recoveries fore a gb punish simple !
TL:DR I think raider has been nerfed rather than buffed
Honestly, I've mained raider throughout my whole time playing the game, and except for the zone changes, it all feels awful.
Storming tap straight up feels abysmal to use, the animation looks awful now, and the lack of a variable timing makes his offense feel 1) more boring because now all I can consistently use is the zone, and 2) easier to predict, because storming tap is such a big part of raiders offense.
And in 4v4 now, he's even less fun to play, because it's so easy to knock him out of any chains now, which applies to 1v1 as well, because his dodge attack is awful, and his hyperarmour changes make him like every other character having to feint to neutral all the time now, whereas one of the most fun parts of raider was being able to trade with dodge attacks, and trade in general.
Don't get me wrong, the hyper armour changes are healthy for the game overall as it creates a proper sense of balancing for hyperarmour characters in the game. But taking that away and not giving him anything to replace it, or giving him a proper offense feels awful now.
I was really hopeful for the raider changes off the back of the last TG, but now, I'd honestly rather them leave the current build in then implement the changes, if anything was took from it, comboing zone and zone stam are pretty fun now
Il be honest if they had to tell me choices between this new raider or keep the old one...I would rather keep the old one these so call so re-work is not enough this is first and last character i play when im on this game and at this point am even less motivated to go on because of that
Disappointed with these underwhelming changes. Admittedly, Raider was the one I was looking forward to the most for a rework (even before the previous patch). Thanks for this video so that I'll temper my expectations now.
I'm an Orochi main and I was more exited for the raider changes. Dissapointing to see him only get this much. I thought these 3 would be bigger changes.
Sadly Raider got nerfed instead of reworked once again. but don't worry, we only have to wait a thousand more years till the next rework.
As a raider main iam severely disappointed and sad i hope they change it next season or not add it into the live game
Fr man. I love the stam cost changes but the rest are either meh or just bad. Straight up feel neglected out here
rep 70, day 1 raider here, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
No problem, we only have to wait another thousand years for next rework. Ubisoft follows the same Development roadmap as 3d world countries.
@@Nico_Conradie Calm down, he'll probably be in the next testing grounds like shugoki was.
Best thing about Raider: Hitting some dodge-spamming Roach or Tiandi with a 34 damage heavy. Remove that and he is pretty much a OS Highlander with an UB zone.
Exactly, they took away the one thing that made him great!
Except highlander can already trade with dodge attacks too if he starts with a light attack, so now highlander does that better than raider.
@@bartholomew7852 depends its inconsistent with a lot of heroes some are safe some are not some are only safe when they do it early.
Exactly which is the difficult on a dodge spamming orochi? Lool my dude can't earn a free heavy from a easy heavy? And Highlander, hitokiri, kensei, JJ, Gryphon and Warmonger can hit the tiandi dodge
I think Raider being able to chain one zone into another would be dope
Would definitely look cool lmao
That would definitely make him unique. If I’m not mistaken, no hero has access to an unblockable that can also chain into another one. The only two things that come close are Nuxia’s traps and a Kensei using the unblockable feat.
@@mackprime6975 JJ Sifu stance -> unblockable zone -> unblockable
@@nuke1863 i think he meant in terms of the chain zone after the neutral zone being able to combo into things , JJ can’t do anything with the 2nd unblockable except feint it or let it fly while raider can go into gb or stunning tap and then continue the chain from there
@@hobosatemychicken6203 "an unblockable that can also chain Into another one" Sounds Like they mean UB chaining Into another UB
11:30 Don't forget that Raiders Fire Flask is twice as slow as Warlords Fire Flask, Raider takes forever to throw his flask, another point to Warlord.
I have 30 reps on raider so I think I have a pretty good feel for his play style. Raider was not viable at all but he was still a fun and very satisfying character to play in 4v4 because of his hyper armor trade heavies in team fights. He was also enjoyable because you could mix people up with the variable timings on storming tap in 1v1 scenarios and get good damage by trading heavies but now he feels terrible… you get interrupted constantly in ganks and his awful recoveries make him feel useless in most situations. There’s no point in picking raider imo when so many other characters can do his job better. Not a fan of the rework at all other than the lower stam on zones
If he is going to have zero chase or peel then they need to just give him back his hyper armor.
thats the thing, they should give him chase + peel, ontop of reverting back his hyper armour anyway. i hate how the devs did this, its just forcing us to settle for less.
@@verrat3219 I’m fine with instant hyper armor chain heavies never returning, take them off kensei too, pure fucking cancer
@@why8298 kensei has a much harder time getting to them and to be fair, all of his hyper armor is on third hit chain finishers and doesn’t lead into any mixups as his hyper armor heavies aren’t softfeintable. I think he is balanced.
@@why8298 kensei is fine as is. Only has HA on finisher lights and side heavies
Or just a monster duellist to begin with, shjt team fighter should mean duel machine but no bash, shitty dodge attack storm tap, and a repetitive mixup with some really questionable animations and forcefully being put back to neutral with dodge attacks when the devs are making dodge attacks heavy parries so your read is rewarded with 12 damage light attack into a mixup that can again be dodge heavy attacked, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Stamina changes , zone flowing into chain and the light speed are perfectly good changes .
However the hyper armor delay seems to take away something Raider was unique for.
I believe that should be reverted and he gets back the original hyper armor timing .
In addition to fixing the bug where he can't input his fury zone sometimes, he also needs to have less recovery for his fury zone , and have frame advantage after landing it so he can be on bar with other heros who get rewarded with frame advantage after finishers .
Giving his storming tap more hitstun window so he could flow nicely into his finisher fury without interruption .
The neutral zone into fury zone chain .
and finally the ability to chase and catch back rollers more consistently
If you could go zone into zone it'd give him something unique and be able to compete with other characters. Find a middle for raiders hyperarmor because this doesn't feel good at all. Change some of the hitstun properties so he can chain into his zone without being lighted out of it if it's chained from a light or storming tap. Speaking of storming tap, give a massive buff to his running storming tap so it catches rolls and can peal like berserker. Reduce the massive recoverys as well and allow him to use his hyperarmor properly to trade with dodge attacks without getting that gb as well, honestly give raider some of his old animations back because these light ones are terrible.
Honestly I was expecting them to give HA to the zone.
@@Bova-Fett i'd rather it actually function than just give it ha, cause with it's long ass recovery I can imaginr taking a dodge attack and then a heavy afterwards because of the atrocious recovery.
@M9dno Kensei does from forward dodge light.
@M9dno kensei also has like 6 different options while in that unblockable.
Heres the list
>let it fly
>gb
>hyper armor light softaint
>hyper armor heavy softfaint that is faintable
>dry dodge softfaint out of the unblockable
>dodge attack softfaint out of the unblockable
Do not compare raider and kensei when kensei is still leagues better. Onto another point, while I agree ha on the unblockable isn't a good idea but I do not agree with your reasoning.
As a hero with no confirmed damage, pushing his hyper armor timing back feels pointless. In order to get damage by trading, you have to rely on your opponent to make a mistake. To nerf that with no compensation is just kind of, like, why? Not to mention, since he has no opener, everyone does whiff light to heavy or zone. So they’ve effectively nerfed the opening abilities of a hero with no opening abilities.
But hey, I can zone and light attack from the top now, yay I can finally use the kit I already have, thanks Ubi!
I was pretty disappointed with this testing grounds for Raider. They basically spit on him every time.
WARNING: *Rant Inbound*
Coming from a semi-competent rep 35 raider main with around 350 hours on the char, they should have given him:
- Hyper armor start up on his stampede charge (won't get as easily interrupted during group fights, thus making him a relevant alternative to warlord)
- Hyper armor start up on his unblockable finisher (not neutral)
- Bump up the stamina cost from 12 if they keep the neutral zone chain starter (increase to 15 for neutral and 25 for zone finisher due to hyper armor start up)
- Keep current hyper armor start up (not the testing grounds version)
- Enhanced lights on his neutral lights only to assist with transitioning into his prevalent combo pressure (not combo lights, that'd be a nightmare)
- Revert his soft feint timings (nerf back to 500ms and bring back the variable timing)
- Revert his neutral zone damage back to 22 (currently 24 in the testing grounds) or even lower it due to newly implemented neutral zone chain starters and stam cost
- And finally, replace his god awful 4th feat "slippery" with something fuckin 4th feat worthy (and maybe tweak his unblockable recovery time idk im shy uwu~)
Couldn't care less about his enhanced soft feint lights or his 1000ms to 900ms top heavy finishers Lol.
Anyways, for a character who has no "opener" or bash, they nerfed the only highlights in his kit (being storming tap and his hyper armor) and justified it with adding already needed improvements. Explanation below //
Variable timing on his soft-feint top lights added a layer of depth for mixup potential; you don't entirely know if he's going to do another storming tap immediately after, delay it, gb, or go through with the heavy/unblockable. Now, it has a strict, predictable, and janky looking timing/animation window. Their "reason" for getting rid of his variable timing was because it was reactable (500ms) so they decreased its time down to 400ms and, thus, got rid of the variable timing because "it wasn't necessary" since they buffed the attack speed. But I'd (and I'm sure many other raider mains will agree) argue that it's even more parriable or "reactable" due to its strict and predictable timing.
Don't even mention his hyper armor. Like Freeze said in the video, any light or dodge attack can interrupt raider's combo-pressured chains (which was a very large and effective part of his kit).
If the devs wanted to make raider an "alternative" (Lol) to Kensei and Warlord, they should have at least kept his variable timing and the hyper armor. What's so laughable though is that they nerf raider's hyper armor even though they left zerk's hyper armor untouched (who, keep in mind, got faster attacks and improved chase pressure from his most recent patch update).
PLEASE SAVE OUR RAIDERS FREEEEEZE!!!!!!!!!!!
If they were gonna nerf the hyperarmor they should’ve made storming tap undodgable and they should’ve also reduced his chains zone recoveries it makes no sense
Altwrnatively, the chain and finisher side heavies could be undodgeable and the storming tap not
Storming tap undodgeable hahaha
please freeze, ur my only hope of having raider get a proper rework. his rework is so bad, that i wouldnt even call it a rework. a pathetic attempt and im disapointed.
Oof, ask us Lawbringer mains how we feel.
But don't worry, unlike Lawbringer Freeze actually has a reason to try and get Raider improved. My personal opinion is I hope he stays this way, just to spite Freeze and his vendetta against Lawbringers.
@@iffyfox9749 I sincerely hope this is sarcasm
@@srafnos2073 Nope! If he wants to bash a characters viability when they have zero 1v1 offense then I sincerely hope Raider stays like this. My opinion is that he's viable now. Just like Freeze's opinion is LB is viable. Why advocate for someone who wants to see your main character stay left in the dust?
@M9dno Nah.
@@iffyfox9749 average wawbwinga main
Raider needs the instant hyperarmor at LEAST after heavies and storming tap. Maybe not after zone or light. The chain zone needs better recovery and needs a damage nerf. I kinda miss being able to change the soft feint timings for the storming tap. I could do it very early in the heavy or I can delay it to the end of the heavy.
Don't forget his delayed GB off the zone finsher. It gets a lot of people and was pretty good at forcing a reaction in OOS.
zone into zone ples
IT HAPPENED
I’m more comfortable with the current Raider than testing grounds Raider, mainly cause I like doing my top heavy chain, but that won’t really work anymore now that he’s more vulnerable to interruption. I also like current storming tap more than testing grounds storming tap, variable timing and all.
tbh his new storming tap feels worse lol without the delay the 100ms increase doesnt help at all (im on ps4 btw and i parry it at a much higher rate id say from about 25%-40% of thr time bc of the delays i now parry it at a 70-90% of the time lel) 100ms dont matter if you know it happens at the same time so yeah i havent playdd shinobi nor orochi
I always viewed that as part of it, if you aren't able to parry it you won't try, and will be less open for soft feint
I think the reason why your are parrying it is because you're expecting it because everyone is testing it out.
@@Sethleon-qf8tl i mean Yeah that is defintly a true And good point But If Your Fighting a Raider No Matter What At Some Point he/She will go for it but bc of the variable timing it was Quite hard to parry But i think easy enough to block But now that its a fixed timing idk well see how he feels (TLDR: You Have a Good Point But 100% of the raiders will go for one even before the TG at some point and now it feels worse) But i probably just need to get used to it more Raider Mirrors Are Painful tho but so is any hero mirror so yeah
"He feels like the redheaded stepchild"
Is that a shot taken at the one and only OS slayer (that turned out to be fake, that damn liar)?
You know it
What’s it about?
stampede charge is still easily react-able and gets dodged a lot, also give him better recoveries, better chase & openers, and/or fix his hyper armor. why does hito get so much HA and raider is fuxked.
Hito and raider have the same HA now, what are you talking about?
The op HA that hito had was removed long ago
This feels almost like a nerf, they nerfed the only thing he had that was gud :/
Rip HA
The hyper armor and the removal of variable timing on stun tap feel so bad
Let him keep his live HA and chain zone has HA as well. The double zone would be nice as well.
Stunning tap and hyper armor is all we need
Has anyone else realized that freeze is so fucking amazing? A video game must always have someone like freeze. I am so happy that freeze is ours. #thanksfreeze
Thanks freeze for educating the community on these matters.
Personally I think the raider changes are good, shinobi is a hot mess that still needs a LOT of tweeks and changes. Orochi is also good, even though I don't really like all heroes getting a bash, still it's better than nothing.
How is Shinobi still a mess?
@@aiellamori when fighting shinobi, you spend more time on your knees than a damn stripper in LA. He can get wall splats off of every dodge kick heavy followup, which leads into his stab thingy (I don't remember the bleed name). He keeps knocking you around, the amout of damage he deals and the ganking potential is too much. The bleed from wall splat and gb should be instantly removed.
@@aiellamori Dude Shinobi is a bash spam hero now. He literally needs to do a bash to enter his combo! And he gets his best combo after a counter. So expect Shinobis to turtle a lot!
@@pax_sxprano hmm...didn't know I can block bashes. Thanks for the tip!
@@erikfaru9780 I mean, all you need to do is dodge it, the opener bash is very expected. And he doesn't need to start with a bash, you can open with a light or heavy, because you can still backflip from those attacks, do your ranged and pull forward. I don't think Shinobi would turtle at all, his moveset can be used ina ton of other ways
Now these are a good rate of reworks (albeit need a few tweaks imo) I kinda want an animation overhaul. At this rate, too many hero’s will have good kits but strange animations. I hope they go back and add that last bit of polishing to really cement the changes.
I wonder if this would work. Shinobi after a roll can chain into finisher heavy or his combo (may be neutral) light. Raider should have a special chain link after a stunning tap. His light after a storming tap is enhanced, and has armour 100ms into the move. Raider can trade with dodge attacks and the light would count as a chain light so he can still go into a heavy, light, and zone. The light can be slown down to 533-600ms so that it can be baited out and punished on almost all levels but I would keep the move at 500ms. Also, if there is a needed delay window so the opponent doesn't I frame it than than that would be added.
I feel like Raider will need more time to cook in the oven. Some of these changes are good, but only was a step sideways not forward for his balance or fun factor. And that level is still bad.
Revert HA and ST changes, all 3 hit chains, Keep zone changes, zone into zone, ST as chain starter, enhanced lights, top heavy on light parry
I hope they keep the HA and variable timing storming tap from the live version keep the combo zone testing ground change
I think that tg shinobi has a little bug where if he wallsplats you with the kick, he will get the guaranteed damage of the ranged heavy and in most cases i have experienced can roll forward and get a sickle rain before the enemy recovers from the wall (wallsplatting with the kick is also very easy since for some reason it has insane knockback)
Whats up with the light parry punish? Side heavy didn't work twice
Please PLEASE someone answer! What is up with light parries? Most of em dont work!
Here is my stance on raiders changes and what im probably typing in the survey again:
First the Things i Like:
+ 400ms Storming tap and Not being interrupted on Block is great for His offense and getting Into His chains
+ the neutral zone being a Chain starter is awesome too, so He doesnt have to awkwardly stare at You With His god awful zone recoveries
+ didnt know about this, but the fact that TG Raider cant be poked Out of His zone is really good too
+ finally Lights being standardized to 500ms was needed imo
but these changes should have been there a Long Time ago IMO.
Now to the Things i really dislike:
- both zones have 12 stamina costs: i can See why they would give neutral zone the same stamina costs Like a heavy. But the 38 DMG zone? Seems a bit too good imo. Either turn the DMG down to like 30/32 (i would prefer that) or make the stamina cost higher.
- If the neutral zone should function as alternative heavy (e.g. GB punish) why is its damage lower (Not sure If 20 or 22) than Most standardized heavies (24)?
- obviously being lighted Out of HA heavies makes the HA on them obsolete. But i Cant really tell how to solve this "I trade through your Attack and GB you" problem tho
- the already mentioned awful recoveries for the Chained zone. Either they lower the recoveries of it or let him chain right after it again (i would prefer that If they would make the Chained zone Not 12 stamina cost)
My conclusion:
Speaking of His flow and getting Into His offense they made a good step forward but there is still Work to be done to make him a viable Hero
If its important: Rep 30 Raider, No competitive player
Shugoki with the unblockable which has HA as well gets the same damage as raiders chained zone. Being 12 stamina doesn't bottleneck Raider for using it. What i am not sure personally is about the neutral zone costing 12 stamina. You can feint it 6 times externally in teamfights as well as to someone who is OOS. I would think maybe a nerf to 18 or 20 stamina would be more appropriate for the neutral zone but still trying out to see.
I would like to add they did increase his neutral zone dmg from 22 to 24 to be a viable GB punish . one thing less to worry about.
@@lorddem1659 damn i couldnt believe that shugos charged unblockable only costs 12 stamina ... IMO 38 dmg for a move especially after CCU is a bit too high tho, No Matter If its jorm, shugo or raider.
Thats an interesting Thing You pointed out and i accidently forgot. That really might be trouble. Maybe they find a way to differentiate neutral zone on GB and neutral zone from neutral. Cuz i really Like the idea of the neutral zone being his pseudo heavy on GB punish. But being oos against someone Who can feint an unblockable attack 5-6 Times?... Oh lord
@@Sam-A oh really? thanks for checking that one
Zone does 24 dmg
Imo, he didn't need the nerf on his hyper armor, and I feel like his zone finisher should recieve hyper armor as well. Other than that, I feel like everything is almost perfect, especially chaining into other attacks from neutral zone
You forgot the mention the Iframes on his dodge stun tap have been considerably upped from the current version of the game. Adds him again to the list of characters of which to feint to neutral from
Bro, just put his HA back to being instant and give him superior lights on all sides. Give him that and he's fine, he'll be so much more fun to play because you can actually do stuff without bouncing off. But his zone chaining into his heavy is pretty cool.
The dodge attacks affect him now is so dumb, and the fact that orochi and so many dodge attack are heavy now instead of lights are just bad changes I don’t understand the process the devs have when buffing I don’t understand if someone could give me a genuinely good explanation as to why it’s good to sit their and feint into heavy parry of a dodge attack for 12 light damage is fun or engaging I’d be glad to here it. I used to have to deal with maybe one dodge spamming kensei or gryphon now it jj hito musha and Shugoki who’s is even worse because your at a stamina loss and he can chain from whiffed headbutt (which is ridiculous, you whiff a bash like his and I make a read I should get a gb)
orochi isn’t that good
So Raider's "buffs" aren't even noticable and thats a bad thing. The only one I really felt was his nerf to hyper armor like wtf ubi. That was his purpose big axe dude who punishes dodge attacks and aggressive players. You took the one thing that kep him alive and just spit on it
its okay bro, it’s testing grounds, they can change many things. chill.
If u time it well u can still use dodge attack and block the heavy
Have always loved playing Raider, for the S Tier Emote spam mostly but still. It just feels like you have to work so hard playing as him. Compared to all the cheese other characters have. I can for instance just randomly pick Kensei after not playing him for weeks, and easily cheese my way threw most dominion matches.
Raider is easily the worst of the three reworked heroes. They practically gave him scraps while taking away his ability to trade with dodge attacks. I really hoped this “rework” would make him viable again in high level gameplay but Ubisoft just did him dirty compared to others.
Raider just gets another nerf and is back to his old home in C Tier
With hito's current HA workings and then taking raider's chain HA away seems like they are sending two messages to players. Why give with one hand and take with the other?
how about a knee opener from S+GB like ring the bell? would that be a little too over powered?
I don't regret not skipping the ad like I always do. This was funny
thank you.
I'm glad they let me do these jokes :D
I have a question orochis dodge attack is for some reason now a heavy parry is this a buck or was it mention in the patch notes?
Definitely a bug
I think all raider needed to be viable is removal of option selects because two of them countered him very well, that being dodge parry os and gb parry os, one countering his tap and other countering his gb softfeint
I kinda wanna see what's changed for Orochi in action since I can't really play atm.
This is very late but is the dodge ST 400ms or 500ms?
I do also wish he got a few more chains and that storming tap was a opener instead of a chain so you could do a heavy afterwards and not just instantly end your chains.
maybe his armor should apply instantly after landing attacks? I still think he should have some form of undodgeable chain side light/soft feint light/ or damage bash soft feint instead of gb soft feint. something using his old chain light animation.
Freeze, I reported a bug for shinobi where if you sickle rain someone, then backflip, then target swap to another nearby enemy and do a range heavy, then roll towards that enemy, you can't perform the heavy for sickle rain. It would be interesting to see if you can reproduce this bug when getting footage for the shinobi video.
Okay hear me out stampede from neutral kinda like goki’s hug but if he picks you up he can carry you in any Direction while holding you so you could move people into a team fight out out of one or off a ledge or into a wall
I'd like to add, that changing the top heavy speed was bad in my opinion. See, so many people would parry the top heavy early having been conditioned to the timing of the side heavies. So the delay gave enough time to fake out the opponent. Also useful in ganks for when you need a slower timed attack.
Objectively better to speed it up? In practice I don't think so - it's like Lawbringer's top finisher heavy delay.
During TG I’ve parried Orochi’s side dodge light as Raider but wasn’t able to get a side heavy punish. Am I missing something or is this a bug?
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Unintended bug, all heroes get a heavy parry now, it's such a ridiculously lazy bug
sadly it seems they're still scared of buffing raider
@@empresscleo1313
This
@@lifewasgiventous1614 I can obviously See where shinobi is overloaded. But can You explain why orochi might be?
@@nuke1863 It is obvious, he can use dodge recovery cancel and he has a bash now. OveRloAd.
@@chacharealsmooth941 lmao but seriously im curious why people would think of orochi being overloaded. IMO they buffed shinobi too much and nerfed Raider too hard. But they almost got Orochis buff on point If it wasnt for the ugly kick animation and the Recovery cancel (100/200ms?) Delay.
@@nuke1863 maybe it has something to do with His dodge attacks essentially being option selects at this point due their GB vulnerability and its now a heavy parry for all of them, They also guarantee like 20 damage. On top of this storm rush is a 200ms indicator attack with undodgeable property, 24 damage and also is feintable, also accessible from front dodge to. Bash is unpunishable, He also has s on his back dodge attack. Hes very broken and requires tweaking
I love the zone changes but hyper armor doesn't boat well with me.
As a rep 70 raider, I’ll take the old familiar guy. Can’t say I’ve traded once in TG like I used to. Rip top heavy.
When are those changes go live?
I think HA timing should stay as they are in live, his offensive pressure is worse than live orochi, and I'm saying that while maining orochi. Raider is an average team fighter that relies on trading and surprise stampede charge.
Honestly to me I was never able to react to storming tap, so even if they sped it up it doesn't make any more difficult defending against it for me. It's the opposite, since it has fixed timing now, the only thing I have to decide is if I want to parry top. I don't have to worry about parry timing.
What are the maxpunsihes o thef reworked heroes?
-Give raider enhanced lights
-stun tap during heavy into softfeint since its 12 dmg whilst leaving normal dodge storm tap at 15 dmg no stun
- reduce recovery times and earlier ha cuz he's not wl and trades is what raider was about in team fights
Unrealated: I've been seeing people say that the new Orochi dodge recovery delay is bugged. I want to see where people are getting this, because I really want it to be true and wanna see it myself. Aparently UBI said it themselves but I dunno.
Raiders zone changes are fun, especially since you could chain it if you hit with it in the beginning but that’s about it. His hyper armor changes are wack and feels awkward to the point where you can get knocked out before you even think about your next move is. I had fun with the zone and his charge being faster is cool, but it’s still meh since you can STILL parry his zone after getting kneed in the face. Lights still bounce off of everything and openers are lacking. Such a shame, I wish he got more than this
Can Raider get a dash storming tap from a heavy parry? If that’s the case then he finally isn’t the only hero that gets only 12 damage from a heavy parry.
I like the ha changes makes him less annoying to deal with in 4s but hope they buff him in other places to make up for it
Yeah honestly Raider needs to get that hyper armor back for sure. If give him his hyper armor he should be able to come up a lot. Especially cause Warlord and Kensei when they do get their hyper armor it feels super early
Storming tap seems worse, it feels easier to parry now that it's a consistent timing every time
Being a Raider main since year 2 of For Honor has been awful. I still remembering having to turtle because Raider had no Hyper Amor then. With this rework I was hoping that he would of gotten at least a roll catcher because delaying the stunning tap (i know its called storming tap) isn't a way to catch rollers efficiently. The only good thing that raider got was chaining from his zone and faster stun taps. Raider just falls short in everything. He's a lot fun to play with but I just wish he had something more, you know, and giving him enhanced lights isn't going to make him viable. I know this because you can easily just block raider forcing him to do a zone that can be interrupted or get a light parry from a stunning tap. Its not easy opening up people as raider
I think that raider should get his hyper armor left alone but just make his and warlords the same and i feel like they should give raider hyper amor on his first heavy and give him back his dodge gb as his storming tap is not really a mix up anymore ever since they removed the stun i just feel like that would be better i also feel that they should give him every three hit chain
You know what I want a video on? How the option select changes affect conqueror. I dread fighting one with a character without a bash
He should have a side bash where he pushes you with the staff of the axe. Give a free light or could be gb'd, or into any heavy or zone
As a raider main. I liked the stampade, uninterrupteble stunning... storming tap, stamina changes, faster lights and the chain from neutral zone changes. But, why the hyper armor change? And the variable timing stun... storming tap? I liked that😖
I think they should add armour to Raider's zone in chain and reduce the recoveries. Since it would hit much more often I think that the damage should be reduced to 32 or 34.
I know you're gonna do the characters first but are you also going to go over the option select removal?
he will
Keep current buff, light light heavy, variable timed storming tap, hyper armor, give raiders fury late hyper armor, and make every recovery better. And make his storming tap chase
I thought I was tripping when I wasn't getting confirmed heavies on orochi dodge light parries, but it happened to you too :S
When will his rework be released?
Really like the changes to his top lights, tap, and zone, but I absolutely hate the hyper armor changes. It was raiders one saving grace and I feel like if they don’t give him a few more changes and buffs he’s just going to need another rework in a year or so, same as Orochi a few seasons back IMO.
Like freeze said. It’s a healthy change for the ha nerf. Hito use to have insta ha and that was a nightmare. The only real crime here is that they’re calling his changes a “rework”. He got nothing new and a small nerf. You can compare the changes to the other two TG heroes and they’re definitely reworked. Also a change I would like to see changes to shugoki. Just two. Take the HA off his zone and the 4th feat that knocks people down should not apply to his zone if it’s gonna have HA.
They needed to change storming tap to all sides (like shaman dagger cancel) while keeping its 500ms speed. In additon they should give hyper armor to his chain zone but same startup with testing ground for team fight and lower its recovery to normal state not like this absurd numbers.
0:13 Seems I’m not the only one who thought that Orochi’s dodge attack was still a light parry
Yeah that's a dumb change. Orochi's are going to spam dodge more than ever and they're barely going to get punished for it
@@xxxTheMotleyCrewxxx if u have crush and counters or deflects u can still punish it really good
@@Kbutcanufightho ok, how about the rest of the cast?
Whats amazing is that it feels like storming tap is really just as bad if not worse. Im dogshit and i have dogshit mmr or whatever, but people have been parrying ST more 😳 and it feels more obvious now as well.
I doubt it's cuz people are more scared of ST so their cat-like reflexes kick in and they can parry more effectively.
I think it may be due to the soft feint changes.
Raider regardless of viability still feels off. The zone changes are nice though.
Wait, you can do testing ground in custom matches?
👍
He was already the most underpowered, and they took away his hyperarmor. That was the only think Raider could use against spammers like Orochi.
But worry not, Anime pillow huggers got a buff on their Ninja bullshit :D Weebokiri got a dodge heavy, because why not.
This game is so fucked.
Wait... you can use testing grounds changes in custom?
I know he’s a Vanguard but he has a huge axe, I feel like it doesn’t make sense to speed up his attacks. The changes don’t fit with Raider’s identity in my view
When is the survey coming out? I missed out last time and would very much like to participate. I checked their website and couldn't find it.
i completly agree with you on this one. i miss trading with everybody. now a viking beast has to fear for himself that he can get hit