I found both Suicide Squad movies mid, first one was okay, wasn't garbage, but wasn't great either, just like James Gunn's version. Though I think they should have stuck to using the already established Arkhamverse Suicide Squad from Batman Assault on Arkham. Would have made a lot more sense, and no need to race swap Deadshot, or gender swap Mr. Freeze since there's already Killer Frost.
@@GothamPaladin I agree. I was really excited for this game, then I beat it & got bored of it. I have a love/hate/whythefuckdoesthisgameathing type of relationship with SS. I only go back to play as Boomerang tbh.
@@finger3306 Back in 2016, WB Montreal was developing the “original” Suicide Squad game, it was supposed to be in the Arkhamverse and supposed to be a sequel to Arkham Origins until Sefton Hill saw a opportunity when WB gave it to Rocksteady. Sefton Hill scrapped everything and now made the game we have today.
Honestly I feel like the founders didn’t want to make this game and were self sabotaging the project until they realized it was going to happen so they abandoned ship.
The thing is, SSKTJL was in production WAY BEFORE James Gunn’s The Suicide Squad. They probably started production around the flop of the 1st one which makes no sense. And I also feel like the reason Sefton Hill took so long to review stuff, is because he didn’t want to make this game. Just my thoughts
2:38 I strongly disagree with you because part of why Arkham Asylum was made was because of WB/DC riding the hype train of the Dark Knight films (More specifically Batman begins).. The main issue is that RockSteady isn't how it is used because of how it changed dramatically
the fact that captain BOOMERANG uses guns sucks plus it also sucks that the developers are getting so much hate for working on this game especially if the rumor of the co creator of rocksteady leaving the team to avoid the back lash it’s true Also I agree that just because rocksteady made a bad game dosen’t mean they can’t make good games and hopefully the game they are working is a Superman game or a new Arkham
After this game, I doubt that WB will trust Rocksteady with a Superman game. I don't think a Superman movie is ever possible. Because so what you will. But the majority of Superman fans will not support a Superman product/game if he has a biological son with Lois who is in a gay relationship. The sales figures prove it.
I would say that DC Comics has to revamp much of the Superman mythos back to what it was pre-Superman's son aging up as non-straight. I doubt Hollyweird will support that. Then there is the Supergirl problem. I don't believe that Supergirl is well integrated with the story of her cousin. There is no way fans like her as an immature young adult. Let me say that I see Kara Zor-El as an openly gay lesbian in a relationship with Lena Luthor. I don't know if you would support that idea. Since to me, her straight choices are boring. Especially since the most logical straight-Kara choice is a pairing with ginger-beta-male-Jimmy Olsen. Then there is the need to integrate John Henry Irons with Natalie Irons as one of Kara's best friends. See? Too much for WB to accept.
@@extonjonas6820 why not then make it both focused on gunplay and well Melee? I Mean Wb made Arkham Origins Online which allowed you to play as mooks who had a first person shooter liked gameplay which people liked. Im still shocked to this day that Suicide Squad turned out the way that it did cause we have seen them do better before
I loved Arkham Origins Online. shame you can't play it no more without a mod on steam that has custom servers that people still go on. it's bitter sweat.
8:05 Rocksteady: adding a vehicle when our characters already move very well is stupid. Warner Monreal: I LOVE BRIDGES, MAKE VEHICLES TO CROSS BRIDGES!!
They should just expanding the lore as online game in Arkham Verse instead. Like playing as our custom charactors in Gotham or Metropolis or something like that.
I wonder if Sefton didnt review the work of his team because he was fed up with WB and kept putting off the reviews as a way to delay the game in defiance. As you said we dont know the real reasons, not to mention the internal issues with conduct of their employees. Any case i hope Rocksteady and Seftons new studio success in their next game.
@@Paradox-es3bl...But probably not like it is now! I would like an Arkham style Suicide squad game! Harley, Boomerang,Dead shot and King shark could have had unique fighting styles! And there could have been way more characters to play as!🫤
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader. Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting their new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB. Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing his him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
That was my take as well. It sounds like Sefton and Jaime Walker are getting thrown under the bus for this, but it strikes me that they didn't even want to do a Suicide Squad game. That was WB's idea. They've had a hard-on to shove Suicide Squad down the public's throat for over a decade, whether we wanted it or not. When a film director finally managed to make a decent film out of the idea, they gave him the keys to the damn kingdom. My take is that Jaime and Sefton were just following orders. Their seeming lack of concern could just as likely have been utter demoralization that the success they built was yanked out of their hands. What did they care anymore? They took their paychecks, put together a nest-egg, and started over. The only difference between them and Kojima is that they didn't make a fuss. Which ended up backfiring on them, because now they're getting the blame for everything. I watched WB do the exact same thing in the 80s and 90s after Frank Miller turned Batman into the most popular character in pop culture. Eventually, Frank decided "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," and cranked out crap like The Dark Knight Strikes Back. But lemme tell ya, I attended more than a few Comic-Con panels in the early '90s where Frank Miller expressed no small amount of resentment over the way his work was just taken out of his hands and exploited for all it was worth.
The whole time we thought this was coming from fresh new minds in rocksteady but it turns out this idea was coming from one of the founders they should have kept Paul Dini that man's writing when comes to Batman is immaculate
Says a sweet baby defender who wrote the article! Of course he is not going to say it was them! ...Even though the game is just like the kind of games they like to make.😡
It would’ve been a great game if Paul Dini wrote the script and the DCAU actors were reprising their roles as Flag, Waller, Luthor, Brainiac and the JL.
There was a tweet saying it was Stefon Hill's idea and that at the time Infinity war and Endgame were out which was in inspiration me personally I think it makes much more sense that corporate overlords over at WB were the reasons for all of the crap
As always, don’t blame the employees just working hard to make a paycheck, blame the leaders who didn’t know how to make a good game. I hope that they see that this game didn’t make money and the other Arkham games made a lot so go back to what makes money since that’s all they seem to care about
No, a lot of times it is the employee’s fault. If it wasn’t why would these devs constantly talk up management on social media, parrot their views word for work or come out publicly supporting this bad stuff. They’re not forced to make social media posts supporting this stuff, they could stay silent. A good example of all this bad stuff in action would be the Saint’s Row Reboot
The problem is that companies need to realize that a studio known for making certain type of titles is likely unsuited to making another type! Its like trying to have a studio that makes live service games into one that makes single player games! Mind you its not impossible that they might end up with something halfway decent, but the odds of them producing something as good as the types of games they are known for is less than them working on something they have experience with! Basically, it's a bunch of corporate suits making decisions for things they have little to no understanding of & just assume Rocksteady could make a live service game because the Arkham trilogy was great!
Plus most talents had left Cocksteady by that point so all that's left were a bunch of Yes Men agreeing to whatever top execs wanted without a hint of irony.
I'm not gonna dig too deep, but with recent issues in general with WB, I'm sure this was a game they were forced to make rather than wanted to. I can definitely see for the last 15 years working on a series out of passion for the IP just to be told a 180 flip in direct is demanded, would suck any enthusiasm out of you. By no means am I excusing the founders' lack of cooperation and departure, but I can see why
Huge DC fan here. I have Harley Quinn art all over my home. Dude after I got the last achievement for this game during the same month it came out I haven't touched it since. Game is horrible. And I hate that it is.
Something that makes me think too, in addition to the points you presented. I think they saw the success of the adaptation of The Boys, which came out in 2019, 3 years after the first Suicide Squad, and thought for some reason that what people wanted most was to kill the Justice League heroes. I have this impression because of that live action commercial, where Will Arnet talks about killing the League as if it were the coolest thing in the world. Nobody wanted to kill beloved heroes and make fun of it. At the time I even thought, based on the title, that it was an audacious move by the studio and that they would have an incredible justification in the story to reverse it. But no, it was more of a hasty reading of what the public wanted.
This isn’t even possible since the game was created three years before that. Doesn’t really matter where the idea come from tbh, the game is trash either way
If the developers just came out and said it’s worse than Arkham but it’s a new take that only the minority who like live service might like, then I’d respect them more. But pretending it’s good when it’s just average is the wrong move. Like why not just be honest, had me believing the game was gonna be a surprising great game lol
as much as i don't like this game or the game mechanics of Gotham knights, im sure if they were given the chance to remake the games from the ground up but keep the dialogue, it could be possibly better but i highly doubt they would waste their time again.
Lore reasons can be a beautiful thing, or a horrible thing. That being said, I knew that there was more nuance to this situation than just “let’s ruin 15 years of storytelling and bring down an entire game studio for fun!”
The gameplay is actually fun for a while but does the repetitive. The team(not leaders) really actually did a good job for not having experience for working on a type of game they’ve never done before. Imagine if they could do what they really wanted without leadership fucking them over.
WB and dc really do need to make more games about different characters batman is not the only character yall got green arrow who yall can easily make a game off of
It’s a matter of who sells. Although I 100% agree. Superman and Flash could work but Green Arrow would be a lot easier. Assassin’s Creed parkour with freeflow combat and trick arrows is a recipe for success
I agree with some of the other comments that Sefton Hill taking forever to review progress & having the game delayed may have been an attempt at sabotage, like if the game is constantly failing to come together then surely it'll get cancelled especially since Warner Bros has been lots of projects the past couple of years. Then everyone will be moved to different projects that they can be passionate about and/or maybe successfully pitch a different game to the exeutives. However this project ended up being one of the few that the executives were adamant on releasing, regardless of how many people complained online or within the development team. It was probably based entirely on statistics "This movie did extremely well and this type of game is doing extremely well, so surely our game that's based on both will do extremely well!" "It doesn't matter that it's been several years since the movie came out, and this type of gameplay has been overdone by this point the numbers say it'll make money!" "What do you mean we've lost hundreds of millions of dollars because of this game?" At this point I'm waiting for the inevitable announcement of the game's various season passes being cancelled, the game's a flop which means the executives will want to stop spending resources on it. The question now is if the devs will be able to put out an actual ending or if the game's story will straight up be unfinished as one last insult to everyone including the people who like the game.
I personally enjoy the game, but I definitely see the flaws. I think story isn't too bad, and could be way worse. But some of the story they wanted to be left for the dlcs, like how the Justice League we kill are either clones or from a similar, parallel earth. It could've been executed better, but I enjoy it for what it is
Was Deadshot even in the most recent Suicide Squad? I’m pretty sure they had a different character. One that can call in weapons from anywhere. In the comics he was mapping the multiverse for Waller
I haven't played this game, but it seems to me that the connections this game has to the Arkham series are so thin it could be just easy to retcon them to not be connected, I'm saying it isn't personally, it just feels like they said that so the game could sell better
I can totally understand Hill's position. He knew from the outset that these changes forced on him by WB would tank the game and without any other options he built himself a life raft and zogged off. It does suck for those left behind but he couldn't take everyone and get away with it.
If the game was just justice league game it would be ok it will be dog water the story it's not good shooting the justice league with is really not that fun people only hop on this game just for a DLC. When the people just get off the game
I honestly don’t care much that it’s in the Arkham universe. They have the multiverse in the game so this can easily take place in Arkham verse where everything happened the same way but Hal Jordan isn’t the current green lantern for all we know. My main complaint is just repetition during the endgame. Hopefully it pulls a borderlands 3 and starts off crappy but give it some time and it gets better, hopefully
i still think this article was bought by WB there's a lot of words people already said about the squad and they literally just want to put a blame on someone fans knew and that they're the bad guys now not "poor WB"
So yeah, Harley Quinn and Deadshot are definitely movie versions of themselves. Boomerang’s inclusion came from the movie too as he has nothing to do with Rocksteady or Arkham and I suspect King Shark’s inclusion is also movie driven since he was the second movies’ standout character and Aquaman is straight missing from the Justice League. Plus I get Ezra vibes from SSSKJL’s Flash. I do feel like they may have left out SBI’s involvement in tanking the game but from what I understand you can’t criticize them because they have some kind of strangle hold on the industry. Now if Hill said he needed to escape studio mandates but the mandate wasn’t it being a live service so maybe he was referring to mandates with the story.
It makes sense because the first two games were written by Dini knight has a good premise for story but the story isn’t the best because it was more level game based than story Pual Dini said he planned the story to be about hush and crane but he didn’t wrote anything at all (I think he would’ve kept crane and left hush out of the main story)
If you wanna rope swing and shoot at people like Harley does then just play uncharted multiplayer with the rope master perk 🤷♂️ old but still more fun then this
Do you think Sefton took so long to review is because behind the curtains he was planning to bail to cofound ANOTHER team? This is the perfect example of a game company burning through money then complaining "games are to expensive to make". Surprising no one, poor "Leadership" leads to failure.
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader. Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting their new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB. Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing his him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
Sefton Hill was obviously trying to avoid making the game because he knew it would fail and dc. These are just digging their own grave which is sad to see
I feel like if the game was featuring some random justice league, rather than the ARKHAM justice league, it would have been a lot better and maybe wouldn’t have flopped. As of right now I refuse to beileve that it’s canon to Arkham, im viewing this game as some sort of deleted scene in Arkham.
You wanna know a dc game focusing on villains that could have been a massive hit. Create another lego dc villains game. Or just a Lego Batman with villain levels. Some levels could even have Lego Batman and Robin as bosses. Or another Arkham Origins multiplayer project.
Jason is such a good journalist and author. His articles are great and his books are dime great reads. I'm glad it was him that reported on this dumpster fire because we know he's giving us the truth.
you're right the title is like of those isekai anime where they don't even bother to think a proper name less than five charatacters that's meaningful instead of writing a whole sumary of the anime.
They could have taken what they learned from the batman games and make four arkham game like: King Shark Arkham legacy or Captain Boomerang arkrham revenge
This whole article makes me think they should make a game based on the arkham origins online but tweak in and work on it like add other supervillians and better weapons I feel like that game would make more money and be a much better game
I only bought the game because I love harley quinn comics and her in the arkham games, and i heard that it's an arkham game, so i bought it. Sadly, i regret it
He wanted a surprise. He wasn’t writing with the intent to destroy the brand and I’d argue he didn’t. The point was to mirror IW/Endgame’s model of the heroes losing and then returning for revenge. That’s it. Employees even wanted him to put more teasers for their return so there would be less backlash but he was hellbent on doing what ended up being the final product, resulting in a player base starting off with
@@Rhyciz yeah but in the end of the day the blame kinda shifted from WB to RS to him personally, and to make the whole thing worse he jumped ship while everyone else drowned alongside the ship known as rocksteady.
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader. Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting their new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB. Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing his him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
Honestly, the concept is neat, especially if it was a standalone game. Sure, it would still be a bad stiry, but it would be a bad story without connecting to anything.
@silverhawkscape2677 I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stand alone game originally that didn't connect to the arkham games or was an elseworlds story like injustice.
I wonder if Hill was trying to sabotage the project. Maybe he was dissatisfied with being told him and his team had to make a genre of game that they had no experience in. The little bit where he invited his old team to his new company where they'd be "free of WB's pressure and mandates" gave me this thought.
Honestly, as much as the whole what happened when heroes turned villians and villian turned heroes sounds interesting they should have just started with the 2nd suicide squad game with bloodsport. Yeah the movie didn't do well but it got popular enough peacemaker is making a name for himself from his own show to being in mortal kombat
I had a high school classmate tell me she was thinking about quitting school two days before a 2 week long group project was due. Also, it was a two person project. Also, it was a huge part of our grade. Then after letting me waste time trying to get her to stay on, she only told me the next day that she had done nothing on the project. She was supposed to do a poster for it. I wasted most of the time trying to find out what she had done, which was nothing. I stayed up all night, bashing together something to make up for being the only one person presenter with no poster. It was 2002, and I definitely couldn't get a poster on Stalin done on such short notice. So I used my very 90s art program, printed out a communist looking hat brim, printed some rainbow stickers that said the students' and some black and red stickers that said the teacher's. Then I went in and went full ham on the class, sending the teacher and a student to "Siberia" after slapping stickers on stuff. I did manage to get a halfway decent grade, probably because the entire class was actually laughing at the jokes and paying attention to me mocking Stalin's policies. I had a kid say he is never going to forget that presentation while he was still laughing. It was actually an informative speech, albeit a very tongue in cheek one. My character became increasingly paranoid about the teacher taking control back, randomly banished another student, went on about how we should even delete them from photos. Then I attacked religion, started collectivisation, and suggested that the old churches made good grain silos. The whole time I acted more and more self important and paranoid, letting that increase gradually. It really showed well how Stalin was, casually suggesting liquidization. Sadly, most projects do not improve under such circumstances. I think the project would have been pretty tame had I not had to scramble to make something good enough to get over missing one third of the project. I'm amazed it worked and I got a B. Too bad this game couldn't figure out how to make humor work in their favor the same way. Probably because my report was about an hour instead of interminable, and didn't cost $75 per person.
Idea, next Batman Arkham game can be (Batman-Arkham Extinction), we start off with Batman waking up inside a brainiac control pod, his system is shut down sense the squad killed the first Brainiac, he escapes the ship and now it's all open world, except all his gadgets are gone, Batman has no gadgets except say like his batclaw, (for traveling), the rest of the game is him staying undercover cause Waller is out to kill him (because of the clone Batman) and he has to find a way to get the other justice League, who are in the other dimensions that the squad have gone too, it's a way to not completely screw up the Arkham verse, and it's a way to give more to the franchise so people who have played forever will need to adapt just like Batman to having no gadgets, and new people will be introduced to a nerfed Batman and then go back and play the fully powered Batman.
As much as I'd like to see a proper follow-up to the Arkham games, I truly think Rocksteady should take some time away from the Arkham-verse to just recharge themselves from the IP and probably use the time to make something else, even if it's something original inhouse
Seeing this makes me concerned for the new Wonder Woman game coming soon but at least she looks beautiful facial model wise and has her feminine beauty and I also heard Sweet Baby Stink isnt involved in that game as WB needs a win this year or next year badly.
I’m playing it right now. It’s a good game but how they disrespect Batman was kind of out of wine. They could’ve done a few things better. It’s a decent game. I don’t like how they added the pride shit though
I mixed up James Gunn’s Suicide Squad Movie with the the garbage one. My bad but point still stands 🤝
Dont worry, we all commit mistakes
That's what makes us human
@@frank8917 what a legend reply
@@frank8917 I understood that reference.
I found both Suicide Squad movies mid, first one was okay, wasn't garbage, but wasn't great either, just like James Gunn's version. Though I think they should have stuck to using the already established Arkhamverse Suicide Squad from Batman Assault on Arkham. Would have made a lot more sense, and no need to race swap Deadshot, or gender swap Mr. Freeze since there's already Killer Frost.
Hold on so WB considered the original Suicide Squad movie a success ? not the one from James Gunn ?????
So you’re telling me the game was bad because of poor management? Shockerrrr
“I will chase you to the ends of the Earth!”
And the Woke shit.
@@Aleks96I think that is part of the poor management.
Only a true novice in business actively tells potential customers to not buy their product.
management thta had SBI in its ear
@@Aleks96wokeness got nothing to do with it
James did the one in 2021 bruh.
WB did 2016.
doesn’t really matter though
Damn my sense of time is ass
Point still stands tho
@@GothamPaladin I agree. I was really excited for this game, then I beat it & got bored of it.
I have a love/hate/whythefuckdoesthisgameathing type of relationship with SS. I only go back to play as Boomerang tbh.
@@GothamPaladinlol, I thought that was a joke as in the 2016 shitty one by WB never existed 😂
Jared Leto Joker is ass. Rather have Joaquin Phoenix continue to play joker. Never any good live action jokers anymore ever since Heath Ledger died.
They should have made Aaron Cash commissioner sense Gordon is the Mayor
@@bigwhopper6501uh he became one in arkham knight and he became police commisioner after jim gordon running for mayor
*since. Bro are you a child or dumb?
It's a travesty that the legendary Kevin Conroy's last voiced game as Batman is suicide squad
Soon the game will not be canon ha ha ha.
We can only hope
The best option honestly
@@megatron2171 maybe a soft reboot for arkham
Literally the ONLY way to get the fans back on their side and the only way for them to show they have their fucking head straight now
Make this Harley’s crazy dream. The devs can do this in Arkham Shadow
😅 this game sucks. It disrespects Arkham Batman. Killed all the good. Characters but I am happy for Batman Arkham shadow
Disrespect is a strong word
How you know
@@HunterRamirez-rl3by I agree, but what else can you call it? they did not exactly handle it well.
@@LB-hr9vuyou can call it Sefton Hills usual shit writing😂 arkham knight is the same with its story, just ass because of Sefton
@@finger3306 Back in 2016, WB Montreal was developing the “original” Suicide Squad game, it was supposed to be in the Arkhamverse and supposed to be a sequel to Arkham Origins until Sefton Hill saw a opportunity when WB gave it to Rocksteady. Sefton Hill scrapped everything and now made the game we have today.
The best part about hitting rock bottom is it's only upwards from here on. Whatever comes next can't be worse
Insert J Jonah Jameson laughing meme here
th-cam.com/video/lhckuhUxcgA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AB0861_gzKhqMY7k
It can.
Oh they pull out the shovels and tnt and drills.
Good job on tempting fate.
Honestly I feel like the founders didn’t want to make this game and were self sabotaging the project until they realized it was going to happen so they abandoned ship.
Exactly my comment
agree
The thing is, SSKTJL was in production WAY BEFORE James Gunn’s The Suicide Squad.
They probably started production around the flop of the 1st one which makes no sense.
And I also feel like the reason Sefton Hill took so long to review stuff, is because he didn’t want to make this game.
Just my thoughts
I heard the first one made a ton of money, so it still makes business sense to try to capitalize on that.
The game is so bad like the story sucks and the gameplay is so boring
yet people will tell you it's good. I don't think this crap is worth the price they chare for it.
@@LB-hr9vu the game should be free to play or at least not as expensive
@@lolbitandftfoxysayhello6262 Exactly! this game should not cost 50$.
@@LB-hr9vu Maeby 20$ or even 32$
@@LB-hr9vuThose people lack brains.
2:38 I strongly disagree with you because part of why Arkham Asylum was made was because of WB/DC riding the hype train of the Dark Knight films (More specifically Batman begins)..
The main issue is that RockSteady isn't how it is used because of how it changed dramatically
The 2016 suicide squad movie wasn't James guun
the fact that captain BOOMERANG uses guns sucks plus it also sucks that the developers are getting so much hate for working on this game especially if the rumor of the co creator of rocksteady leaving the team to avoid the back lash it’s true
Also I agree that just because rocksteady made a bad game dosen’t mean they can’t make good games and hopefully the game they are working is a Superman game or a new Arkham
After this game, I doubt that WB will trust Rocksteady with a Superman game. I don't think a Superman movie is ever possible. Because so what you will. But the majority of Superman fans will not support a Superman product/game if he has a biological son with Lois who is in a gay relationship. The sales figures prove it.
I would say that DC Comics has to revamp much of the Superman mythos back to what it was pre-Superman's son aging up as non-straight. I doubt Hollyweird will support that. Then there is the Supergirl problem. I don't believe that Supergirl is well integrated with the story of her cousin. There is no way fans like her as an immature young adult. Let me say that I see Kara Zor-El as an openly gay lesbian in a relationship with Lena Luthor. I don't know if you would support that idea. Since to me, her straight choices are boring. Especially since the most logical straight-Kara choice is a pairing with ginger-beta-male-Jimmy Olsen. Then there is the need to integrate John Henry Irons with Natalie Irons as one of Kara's best friends. See? Too much for WB to accept.
Sefton Hill activated the knightfall protocol, and dipped 😂
an a-hole through and through that guy was, anyway, I have yet to see what his new studios where he ignore employees until the last second works.
Rocksteady studio was the equivalent of spongebob's mind meme.
2:10 2016? The one by James Gunn was in 2021. The 2016 film was panned by critics and was wildly hated.
Huh?
It was still considered a (slight) commercial success. This game has basically been in development hell for 7 years
True he did misspeak here however tho it was widely hated the film did well financially
At the end of the day the executives aren't looking at reviews they're looking at money what brings in money
I loved the first one
The funny thing is this game being a shooting game could have worked too. Remember Gotham City Imposters and Arkham origins Online?
Not really. The whole problem is that most of the squad does not use guns as their primary weapon. It is not a problem gameplay wise really
@@extonjonas6820 why not then make it both focused on gunplay and well Melee? I Mean Wb made Arkham Origins Online which allowed you to play as mooks who had a first person shooter liked gameplay which people liked. Im still shocked to this day that Suicide Squad turned out the way that it did cause we have seen them do better before
I loved Arkham Origins Online. shame you can't play it no more without a mod on steam that has custom servers that people still go on. it's bitter sweat.
@@LB-hr9vu I should probably get that mod so I can play Origins Online.
@@Samuel152 the people who do go on it are real chill as they go on it from time to time. it's better if you play it with friends of course.
I regret pre ordering it
As you should. Don’t pre-order games.
@@Paradox-es3bl I mean I don't regret preordering Resident Evil 4 Remake. That shit and the Deluxe edition was lit.
I don't
@@Baised-_-RinYou now see how bad it is.
@@Paradox-es3blI pre ordered Elden ring and the DLC i don’t give a fck lol sometimes you can
Does that mean we could get a Workers cut?
8:05 Rocksteady: adding a vehicle when our characters already move very well is stupid.
Warner Monreal: I LOVE BRIDGES, MAKE VEHICLES TO CROSS BRIDGES!!
…you do realize it was Sefton Hill who pitched the idea for vehicles not WB right?
@@morris01I think they are referring to Gotham knights and Arkham origins
Are they stupid?
Rocksteady - made its money on single player stories.
WB - Na you need to do live service
They should just expanding the lore as online game in Arkham Verse instead.
Like playing as our custom charactors in Gotham or Metropolis or something like that.
I wonder if Sefton didnt review the work of his team because he was fed up with WB and kept putting off the reviews as a way to delay the game in defiance. As you said we dont know the real reasons, not to mention the internal issues with conduct of their employees.
Any case i hope Rocksteady and Seftons new studio success in their next game.
Supposedly they wanted to make the game in the first place 🤷♀️
@@Paradox-es3bl...But probably not like it is now!
I would like an Arkham style Suicide squad game!
Harley, Boomerang,Dead shot and King shark could have had unique fighting styles!
And there could have been way more characters to play as!🫤
There won’t be any more games.
@@HerowebcomicsThat was the game I was expecting.
Correction: 2016 was not named gunns suicide squad it was David ayers
And the cut we got wasn’t even his vision.
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader. Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting their new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB. Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing his him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
It seems like he knew the game couldn't be saved and was trying to abandon ship
@@twinodoom Exactly
That was my take as well. It sounds like Sefton and Jaime Walker are getting thrown under the bus for this, but it strikes me that they didn't even want to do a Suicide Squad game. That was WB's idea. They've had a hard-on to shove Suicide Squad down the public's throat for over a decade, whether we wanted it or not. When a film director finally managed to make a decent film out of the idea, they gave him the keys to the damn kingdom.
My take is that Jaime and Sefton were just following orders. Their seeming lack of concern could just as likely have been utter demoralization that the success they built was yanked out of their hands. What did they care anymore? They took their paychecks, put together a nest-egg, and started over. The only difference between them and Kojima is that they didn't make a fuss. Which ended up backfiring on them, because now they're getting the blame for everything.
I watched WB do the exact same thing in the 80s and 90s after Frank Miller turned Batman into the most popular character in pop culture. Eventually, Frank decided "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," and cranked out crap like The Dark Knight Strikes Back. But lemme tell ya, I attended more than a few Comic-Con panels in the early '90s where Frank Miller expressed no small amount of resentment over the way his work was just taken out of his hands and exploited for all it was worth.
The whole time we thought this was coming from fresh new minds in rocksteady but it turns out this idea was coming from one of the founders they should have kept Paul Dini that man's writing when comes to Batman is immaculate
Says a sweet baby defender who wrote the article!
Of course he is not going to say it was them!
...Even though the game is just like the kind of games they like to make.😡
It would’ve been a great game if Paul Dini wrote the script and the DCAU actors were reprising their roles as Flag, Waller, Luthor, Brainiac and the JL.
@@cameronmcewen7192 that's true I agree with you
@@cameronmcewen7192 I'm down for any Paul Dini Batman project
Especially for Arkham Knight. That story sucked so much.
Thank you Jason for putting your self though hell just for a article
He's a Bloomberg reporter not a D Day survivor.
There was a tweet saying it was Stefon Hill's idea and that at the time Infinity war and Endgame were out which was in inspiration me personally I think it makes much more sense that corporate overlords over at WB were the reasons for all of the crap
As always, don’t blame the employees just working hard to make a paycheck, blame the leaders who didn’t know how to make a good game. I hope that they see that this game didn’t make money and the other Arkham games made a lot so go back to what makes money since that’s all they seem to care about
No, a lot of times it is the employee’s fault. If it wasn’t why would these devs constantly talk up management on social media, parrot their views word for work or come out publicly supporting this bad stuff. They’re not forced to make social media posts supporting this stuff, they could stay silent. A good example of all this bad stuff in action would be the Saint’s Row Reboot
Marvel vs Capcom infinite is more Disney fault because they wanted to promote the MCU characters
If they don’t make that damn Batman beyond sequel to knight im gonna…
The problem is that companies need to realize that a studio known for making certain type of titles is likely unsuited to making another type! Its like trying to have a studio that makes live service games into one that makes single player games! Mind you its not impossible that they might end up with something halfway decent, but the odds of them producing something as good as the types of games they are known for is less than them working on something they have experience with!
Basically, it's a bunch of corporate suits making decisions for things they have little to no understanding of & just assume Rocksteady could make a live service game because the Arkham trilogy was great!
Plus most talents had left Cocksteady by that point so all that's left were a bunch of Yes Men agreeing to whatever top execs wanted without a hint of irony.
I'm not gonna dig too deep, but with recent issues in general with WB, I'm sure this was a game they were forced to make rather than wanted to. I can definitely see for the last 15 years working on a series out of passion for the IP just to be told a 180 flip in direct is demanded, would suck any enthusiasm out of you. By no means am I excusing the founders' lack of cooperation and departure, but I can see why
Not mentioning the elephant in the room of Sweet Baby Inc and the piss-poor writing they did on it.
Huge DC fan here. I have Harley Quinn art all over my home. Dude after I got the last achievement for this game during the same month it came out I haven't touched it since. Game is horrible. And I hate that it is.
Something that makes me think too, in addition to the points you presented. I think they saw the success of the adaptation of The Boys, which came out in 2019, 3 years after the first Suicide Squad, and thought for some reason that what people wanted most was to kill the Justice League heroes. I have this impression because of that live action commercial, where Will Arnet talks about killing the League as if it were the coolest thing in the world. Nobody wanted to kill beloved heroes and make fun of it. At the time I even thought, based on the title, that it was an audacious move by the studio and that they would have an incredible justification in the story to reverse it. But no, it was more of a hasty reading of what the public wanted.
This isn’t even possible since the game was created three years before that. Doesn’t really matter where the idea come from tbh, the game is trash either way
I wonder whats gonna happen to dc games in the future with james gunn having dc games connected to the movies and animated stuff
10:18 for the people who didn't notice but ClownPuncher139 (or the guy who did the arkham iceberg) was in that part playing king shark
To be fair, Into the Spider-Verse did influence Insomniac’s Miles Morales 🤷♂️
Kind of ironic because an actual justice league game could work with live service in mind
If the developers just came out and said it’s worse than Arkham but it’s a new take that only the minority who like live service might like, then I’d respect them more. But pretending it’s good when it’s just average is the wrong move. Like why not just be honest, had me believing the game was gonna be a surprising great game lol
I like the gameplay and characters just the way they killed off characters makes it terrible
Yea, and we can say "thanks" to sweet baby for that
@@JosephPaohe didn’t mention it in the article but it also revealed clone theory and the league is alive
@Flareguy Yea, but they made them into baffling baffoons.
@@JosephPaoLike making wonder woman death being sad while not caring about the others like Batman
You have bad taste.
as much as i don't like this game or the game mechanics of Gotham knights, im sure if they were given the chance to remake the games from the ground up but keep the dialogue, it could be possibly better but i highly doubt they would waste their time again.
Wasn’t it remade like 2 times? Before the final product
Lore reasons can be a beautiful thing, or a horrible thing. That being said, I knew that there was more nuance to this situation than just “let’s ruin 15 years of storytelling and bring down an entire game studio for fun!”
The gameplay is actually fun for a while but does the repetitive. The team(not leaders) really actually did a good job for not having experience for working on a type of game they’ve never done before. Imagine if they could do what they really wanted without leadership fucking them over.
WB and dc really do need to make more games about different characters batman is not the only character yall got green arrow who yall can easily make a game off of
It’s a matter of who sells. Although I 100% agree. Superman and Flash could work but Green Arrow would be a lot easier. Assassin’s Creed parkour with freeflow combat and trick arrows is a recipe for success
Green arrow Arkhamverse is both possible and an absolutely amazing idea that they’re stupid not to do
Such a W channel
Polka-Dot Man wasn't in it. That's why.
Not even Condiment King, I can’t respect it
I agree with some of the other comments that Sefton Hill taking forever to review progress & having the game delayed may have been an attempt at sabotage, like if the game is constantly failing to come together then surely it'll get cancelled especially since Warner Bros has been lots of projects the past couple of years. Then everyone will be moved to different projects that they can be passionate about and/or maybe successfully pitch a different game to the exeutives.
However this project ended up being one of the few that the executives were adamant on releasing, regardless of how many people complained online or within the development team.
It was probably based entirely on statistics "This movie did extremely well and this type of game is doing extremely well, so surely our game that's based on both will do extremely well!" "It doesn't matter that it's been several years since the movie came out, and this type of gameplay has been overdone by this point the numbers say it'll make money!"
"What do you mean we've lost hundreds of millions of dollars because of this game?"
At this point I'm waiting for the inevitable announcement of the game's various season passes being cancelled, the game's a flop which means the executives will want to stop spending resources on it. The question now is if the devs will be able to put out an actual ending or if the game's story will straight up be unfinished as one last insult to everyone including the people who like the game.
is like people never do a class work group in the school
Are y’all going to play the game again when deathstroke is available? 😅
I personally enjoy the game, but I definitely see the flaws. I think story isn't too bad, and could be way worse. But some of the story they wanted to be left for the dlcs, like how the Justice League we kill are either clones or from a similar, parallel earth. It could've been executed better, but I enjoy it for what it is
But they also should have online servers for online multi-player with an optional squad vs squad mode
Personally my least fav Batman design in the Arkham Verse
its still really good! Its just the others hit so much harder for me
I only want to see what deathstroke will bring to the table.
Was Deadshot even in the most recent Suicide Squad? I’m pretty sure they had a different character. One that can call in weapons from anywhere. In the comics he was mapping the multiverse for Waller
Bloodsport, I would like to see him in the game
I haven't played this game, but it seems to me that the connections this game has to the Arkham series are so thin it could be just easy to retcon them to not be connected, I'm saying it isn't personally, it just feels like they said that so the game could sell better
I don't think enough people wanted to kill the justice passe for this game too be successful even if it was a good game
I can totally understand Hill's position. He knew from the outset that these changes forced on him by WB would tank the game and without any other options he built himself a life raft and zogged off. It does suck for those left behind but he couldn't take everyone and get away with it.
should have just made that damian batman game where bruce wayne is alfred and gotham is run by new and some legacy villains
If the game was just justice league game it would be ok it will be dog water the story it's not good shooting the justice league with is really not that fun people only hop on this game just for a DLC. When the people just get off the game
I honestly don’t care much that it’s in the Arkham universe. They have the multiverse in the game so this can easily take place in Arkham verse where everything happened the same way but Hal Jordan isn’t the current green lantern for all we know. My main complaint is just repetition during the endgame. Hopefully it pulls a borderlands 3 and starts off crappy but give it some time and it gets better, hopefully
I mean, i liked the gameplay, it's just the story just didn't work out for me
i still think this article was bought by WB there's a lot of words people already said about the squad and they literally just want to put a blame on someone fans knew and that they're the bad guys now not "poor WB"
WB's only fault was greenlighting that garbage.
^ that and pressuring the studio to make something they had no business making
We already know why: live service and SBI.
So yeah, Harley Quinn and Deadshot are definitely movie versions of themselves. Boomerang’s inclusion came from the movie too as he has nothing to do with Rocksteady or Arkham and I suspect King Shark’s inclusion is also movie driven since he was the second movies’ standout character and Aquaman is straight missing from the Justice League. Plus I get Ezra vibes from SSSKJL’s Flash. I do feel like they may have left out SBI’s involvement in tanking the game but from what I understand you can’t criticize them because they have some kind of strangle hold on the industry. Now if Hill said he needed to escape studio mandates but the mandate wasn’t it being a live service so maybe he was referring to mandates with the story.
WB should definitely should have a tighter grip on their IP when it comes to large video games like these
It makes sense because the first two games were written by Dini knight has a good premise for story but the story isn’t the best because it was more level game based than story
Pual Dini said he planned the story to be about hush and crane but he didn’t wrote anything at all (I think he would’ve kept crane and left hush out of the main story)
If you wanna rope swing and shoot at people like Harley does then just play uncharted multiplayer with the rope master perk 🤷♂️ old but still more fun then this
A fellow Uncharted fan? I thought we were extinct 😂
@@Rhyciz oh I’m definitely one of the older ones I come from U3 multiplayer lol
Uncharted is a goated series
Would a Hack and slash brawling style have made a difference? 🤔
Do you think Sefton took so long to review is because behind the curtains he was planning to bail to cofound ANOTHER team?
This is the perfect example of a game company burning through money then complaining "games are to expensive to make".
Surprising no one, poor "Leadership" leads to failure.
The man was Slimey for it.
@@baki484Sweet baby was slimy for it!😡
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader. Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting their new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB. Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing his him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
Sefton Hill was obviously trying to avoid making the game because he knew it would fail and dc. These are just digging their own grave which is sad to see
They knew damn well we would be upset
It also doesn't help that Margot Robbie is playing New 52 Harley Quinn and the one from The Suicide Squad is Pre-new52 Harley Quinn
I feel like if the game was featuring some random justice league, rather than the ARKHAM justice league, it would have been a lot better and maybe wouldn’t have flopped. As of right now I refuse to beileve that it’s canon to Arkham, im viewing this game as some sort of deleted scene in Arkham.
Arkham Justice League should have DCAU actors.
You wanna know a dc game focusing on villains that could have been a massive hit. Create another lego dc villains game. Or just a Lego Batman with villain levels. Some levels could even have Lego Batman and Robin as bosses. Or another Arkham Origins multiplayer project.
Jason is such a good journalist and author. His articles are great and his books are dime great reads. I'm glad it was him that reported on this dumpster fire because we know he's giving us the truth.
you're right the title is like of those isekai anime where they don't even bother to think a proper name less than five charatacters that's meaningful instead of writing a whole sumary of the anime.
They could have taken what they learned from the batman games and make four arkham game like: King Shark Arkham legacy or Captain Boomerang arkrham revenge
At first, I thought you were talking about the movie
This whole article makes me think they should make a game based on the arkham origins online but tweak in and work on it like add other supervillians and better weapons I feel like that game would make more money and be a much better game
The suits: "Huh... guess this means that no-one likes DC anymore! That is the *only* thing we'll learn from this!"
I only bought the game because I love harley quinn comics and her in the arkham games, and i heard that it's an arkham game, so i bought it. Sadly, i regret it
They could also make the game offline not live service
What the hell happen inside sefton hill's head?
He wanted a surprise. He wasn’t writing with the intent to destroy the brand and I’d argue he didn’t. The point was to mirror IW/Endgame’s model of the heroes losing and then returning for revenge. That’s it. Employees even wanted him to put more teasers for their return so there would be less backlash but he was hellbent on doing what ended up being the final product, resulting in a player base starting off with
"Sweet baby and these out of touch corpos suck!"
Would be my guess!😡
He probably just did not want to do this. And this was a symbol of his frustration
@@Rhyciz yeah but in the end of the day the blame kinda shifted from WB to RS to him personally, and to make the whole thing worse he jumped ship while everyone else drowned alongside the ship known as rocksteady.
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader. Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting their new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB. Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing his him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
The Daikatana of the 2020s. Every decade seems to have one.
Honestly, the concept is neat, especially if it was a standalone game. Sure, it would still be a bad stiry, but it would be a bad story without connecting to anything.
Exactly the problem. If it was independent it would be less painful but not got to drag the Arkham series with it.
@silverhawkscape2677 I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stand alone game originally that didn't connect to the arkham games or was an elseworlds story like injustice.
I wonder if Hill was trying to sabotage the project. Maybe he was dissatisfied with being told him and his team had to make a genre of game that they had no experience in. The little bit where he invited his old team to his new company where they'd be "free of WB's pressure and mandates" gave me this thought.
Honestly, as much as the whole what happened when heroes turned villians and villian turned heroes sounds interesting they should have just started with the 2nd suicide squad game with bloodsport. Yeah the movie didn't do well but it got popular enough peacemaker is making a name for himself from his own show to being in mortal kombat
I had a high school classmate tell me she was thinking about quitting school two days before a 2 week long group project was due. Also, it was a two person project. Also, it was a huge part of our grade. Then after letting me waste time trying to get her to stay on, she only told me the next day that she had done nothing on the project. She was supposed to do a poster for it. I wasted most of the time trying to find out what she had done, which was nothing. I stayed up all night, bashing together something to make up for being the only one person presenter with no poster. It was 2002, and I definitely couldn't get a poster on Stalin done on such short notice. So I used my very 90s art program, printed out a communist looking hat brim, printed some rainbow stickers that said the students' and some black and red stickers that said the teacher's. Then I went in and went full ham on the class, sending the teacher and a student to "Siberia" after slapping stickers on stuff. I did manage to get a halfway decent grade, probably because the entire class was actually laughing at the jokes and paying attention to me mocking Stalin's policies. I had a kid say he is never going to forget that presentation while he was still laughing.
It was actually an informative speech, albeit a very tongue in cheek one. My character became increasingly paranoid about the teacher taking control back, randomly banished another student, went on about how we should even delete them from photos. Then I attacked religion, started collectivisation, and suggested that the old churches made good grain silos.
The whole time I acted more and more self important and paranoid, letting that increase gradually. It really showed well how Stalin was, casually suggesting liquidization.
Sadly, most projects do not improve under such circumstances. I think the project would have been pretty tame had I not had to scramble to make something good enough to get over missing one third of the project. I'm amazed it worked and I got a B.
Too bad this game couldn't figure out how to make humor work in their favor the same way. Probably because my report was about an hour instead of interminable, and didn't cost $75 per person.
2:53
I would’ve said transformers: Rise of the dark spark for that
Idea, next Batman Arkham game can be (Batman-Arkham Extinction), we start off with Batman waking up inside a brainiac control pod, his system is shut down sense the squad killed the first Brainiac, he escapes the ship and now it's all open world, except all his gadgets are gone, Batman has no gadgets except say like his batclaw, (for traveling), the rest of the game is him staying undercover cause Waller is out to kill him (because of the clone Batman) and he has to find a way to get the other justice League, who are in the other dimensions that the squad have gone too, it's a way to not completely screw up the Arkham verse, and it's a way to give more to the franchise so people who have played forever will need to adapt just like Batman to having no gadgets, and new people will be introduced to a nerfed Batman and then go back and play the fully powered Batman.
That’s actually kinda a cool idea that could work, with some refining
Your voice makes me laugh. Like in a good way. Just subscribed. Good takes.
As much as I'd like to see a proper follow-up to the Arkham games, I truly think Rocksteady should take some time away from the Arkham-verse to just recharge themselves from the IP and probably use the time to make something else, even if it's something original inhouse
Seeing this makes me concerned for the new Wonder Woman game coming soon but at least she looks beautiful facial model wise and has her feminine beauty and I also heard Sweet Baby Stink isnt involved in that game as WB needs a win this year or next year badly.
trusted journalist from bloomberg, oi vey goiyem
I’m playing it right now. It’s a good game but how they disrespect Batman was kind of out of wine. They could’ve done a few things better. It’s a decent game. I don’t like how they added the pride shit though
Look. Redo this as solo and I’d be happy 😂
They couldn’t have used a different villain?