I found both Suicide Squad movies mid, first one was okay, wasn't garbage, but wasn't great either, just like James Gunn's version. Though I think they should have stuck to using the already established Arkhamverse Suicide Squad from Batman Assault on Arkham. Would have made a lot more sense, and no need to race swap Deadshot, or gender swap Mr. Freeze since there's already Killer Frost.
@@GothamPaladin I agree. I was really excited for this game, then I beat it & got bored of it. I have a love/hate/whythefuckdoesthisgameathing type of relationship with SS. I only go back to play as Boomerang tbh.
Honestly I feel like the founders didn’t want to make this game and were self sabotaging the project until they realized it was going to happen so they abandoned ship.
Stop trying to have sympathy. Sefton Hill was forcing his whole team to scrap the Arkham formula in favour of a fortnite shooter. Please accept that bloody advice for gods sake.
The thing is, SSKTJL was in production WAY BEFORE James Gunn’s The Suicide Squad. They probably started production around the flop of the 1st one which makes no sense. And I also feel like the reason Sefton Hill took so long to review stuff, is because he didn’t want to make this game. Just my thoughts
They should just expanding the lore as online game in Arkham Verse instead. Like playing as our custom charactors in Gotham or Metropolis or something like that.
2:38 I strongly disagree with you because part of why Arkham Asylum was made was because of WB/DC riding the hype train of the Dark Knight films (More specifically Batman begins).. The main issue is that RockSteady isn't how it is used because of how it changed dramatically
The difference is WB was more ok with Batman Arkham Asylum being more of it's own thing and not tying it so much to the movies as Suicide Squad was. Allowing the studio to do their own take on these characters that was darker but, not having to go the full realism route that Nolan did. In addition to not changing these characters to be more like their Nolanverse counterparts like they did with Harley Quinn and Deadshot in the game.
I remeber when everyone was screaming it was sweet baby Inc's fault. Turns out it was poor leadership choices. Bad management and bad ceos fuck things up.
The worst part is the game had potential before the shift to live service, but let’s explore how it could have been done better with that constraint in mind from the getgo. Metropolis is already beautiful and well planned, the close quarters combat is currently functional but a hard focus on Close Combat needs to happen. The beginning of the story is servicable. A group of villains are forced to team up to fight a group of brainwashed heroes, and manage to find their way into a vacant bat cave. Brilliant. Let’s say they’re in a contingency batcave beneath the Metropolis where Batman was storing experimental gear to use against the league in a similar eventuality. This is where everything should come together. This is the squad’s new base. First, we need to gear up. Scrap the guns, the bat cave can offer a variety of thematic, fun weapons and would naturally be restricted from creating most firearms. Set Brother Ai or Oracle up in the bat computer to give over access to the bat cave’s trophies and it’s gadget fabricators. Have the squad sworn in as honorary Bats, because the global threat is so dire that villains may be the world’s best hope. They won’t get access to drive Batman’s batmobile, use his themed personal gear, or wear his suit, but by taking down enemies they can spend XP to upgrade anything else or requisition villainous devices from past capers like mr freeze’s freeze ray or joker’s acid. They can also take down brainwashed heroes and opportunistic villains around town to grab their gimmicks or tools to open up a new range of fabricatable gear. Harley’s old gimmick weapons can be retrofitted with Wayne tech to give them a wow factor and versatility, and she can access experimental compounds like Shark Repellant to add levity. Deadshot finds a suit from his younger days and augments it with a utility belt, non-lethal elemental ammo, and detective vision goggles. Captain Boomerang gets access to the Baterangs, robin-range, and his own themed suit, a dream come true. King Shark rips the guts out of the bat power-armor and wears the carapace like a cardboard suit. He is very proud of his ingenuity. I suspect the desired pivot to vehicle transport was motivated by secondary gear/customization opportunities, so let’s actually try to follow that logic. We need to alter the traversal anyway because what we have in the game currently only works for combat. For overworld movement it is floaty and slow. Instead, Harley can have her signature bicycle with bat-cycle upgrade options to grapnel-turn, launch gadgets, or drive up walls. Deadshot’s suit can be upgraded to a wing suit with retrorockets similar to Batman beyond’s suit. Captain boomerang would have a boomerang themed drone platform, similar to green goblin’s that doubles as a giant boomerang he can aim at enemies like an orbital strike, or use as cover. We can’t access the Batmobile, so the team takes out its signature jetengine and then straps it haphazardly to king shark’s armor. He can now tear through the city like a megashark with a rocket strapped to it’s back, which he is. This sets up things mechanically. The story needed to bring in a wider range of second string heroes and villains that the squad could chew on and interact with during their quest to ultimately take down Brainiac, and unlock recordings of leaguers that Batman may have obtained to profile each of the heroes while establishing his contingency protocols. Brainiac’s control being absolute isn’t a problem, but the leaguers being brainwashed means that they need to express themselves as if they were not brainwashed but were instead deeply deluded. It can be revealed later that these husks of heroes are just ChatGPT driven corpses tasked with exploiting heroes hopes that they’re in there somewhere. It takes the villains to finally put them down for good. The endgame needs to conclude with the defeat of this earth’s brainiac, and the post game should be a conquest mode to reclaim the city from new threats looking to walk on Superman’s or the league’s grave.
Combat for each member must then also change with the gear. Harley is the CQC combo queen that uses gasses, grapnels, acrobatics, blunt melee weapons, and a boxing-glove-extending modified grapnel to dispatch foes. Higher combos lead to Mania bonuses that lead to more powerful attacks. Deadshot is all about zoning using misdirection and traps, then taking out marked targets with extreme damage from mid to long range. He builds up tunnel vision during melee combat, allowing him to mark and deal extreme damage to a single target. His play style creates distance or disengage opportunities to allow enemies to chase you into traps. Captain boomerang is all about setup and payoff. He can call in his giant boomerang, send out returners to deal damage from unexpected angles to bypass shields, and send out flocks of boomerangs that need to be juggled to build combo. Combos lead to Masterstrokes that send boomerangs out with massive arcs or with gimmicks attached that come back after 5 seconds to deal massive damage if the combo is maintained during that time. These masterstrokes act like helldiver orbitals in their ability to destroy foes caught in the aoe. King shark booster thrusts and hulk jumps into battle, landing and causing devastation. He builds frenzy for each injured, active foe, enhancing his lunging bite attacks. He deals aoe with big swings and massive charges. He focuses on big smacks of damage, drawing Aggro, and gets big grab attacks on single targets in Execute range of low health.
I wonder if Sefton didnt review the work of his team because he was fed up with WB and kept putting off the reviews as a way to delay the game in defiance. As you said we dont know the real reasons, not to mention the internal issues with conduct of their employees. Any case i hope Rocksteady and Seftons new studio success in their next game.
@@Paradox-es3bl...But probably not like it is now! I would like an Arkham style Suicide squad game! Harley, Boomerang,Dead shot and King shark could have had unique fighting styles! And there could have been way more characters to play as!🫤
That's kinda what I understood from his memo to Rocksteady employees saying that they would be free from WB's mandates and pressures if they left and joined him. With how much love and attention was put into the rest of the Arkham series, it really doesn't seem like he would do a complete 180 on how he managed things unless he just really didn't want to see this project see the light.
With the money they lost on this game, they could have given us that Man of Steel sequel they should have given us years ago. Or a second Justice League to wrap up the DCEU and give everyone closure. In the meantime, DC Universe Online has continued to quietly update their game with new content and stories a decade after release on multiple platforms like nothing ever happened. That game has outlived the New 52 AND will outlive KTJL.
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting his new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
That was my take as well. It sounds like Sefton and Jaime Walker are getting thrown under the bus for this, but it strikes me that they didn't even want to do a Suicide Squad game. That was WB's idea. They've had a hard-on to shove Suicide Squad down the public's throat for over a decade, whether we wanted it or not. When a film director finally managed to make a decent film out of the idea, they gave him the keys to the damn kingdom. My take is that Jaime and Sefton were just following orders. Their seeming lack of concern could just as likely have been utter demoralization that the success they built was yanked out of their hands. What did they care anymore? They took their paychecks, put together a nest-egg, and started over. The only difference between them and Kojima is that they didn't make a fuss. Which ended up backfiring on them, because now they're getting the blame for everything. I watched WB do the exact same thing in the 80s and 90s after Frank Miller turned Batman into the most popular character in pop culture. Eventually, Frank decided "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," and cranked out crap like The Dark Knight Strikes Back. But lemme tell ya, I attended more than a few Comic-Con panels in the early '90s where Frank Miller expressed no small amount of resentment over the way his work was just taken out of his hands and exploited for all it was worth.
I'm not gonna dig too deep, but with recent issues in general with WB, I'm sure this was a game they were forced to make rather than wanted to. I can definitely see for the last 15 years working on a series out of passion for the IP just to be told a 180 flip in direct is demanded, would suck any enthusiasm out of you. By no means am I excusing the founders' lack of cooperation and departure, but I can see why
The whole time we thought this was coming from fresh new minds in rocksteady but it turns out this idea was coming from one of the founders they should have kept Paul Dini that man's writing when comes to Batman is immaculate
Says a sweet baby defender who wrote the article! Of course he is not going to say it was them! ...Even though the game is just like the kind of games they like to make.😡
It would’ve been a great game if Paul Dini wrote the script and the DCAU actors were reprising their roles as Flag, Waller, Luthor, Brainiac and the JL.
@@extonjonas6820 why not then make it both focused on gunplay and well Melee? I Mean Wb made Arkham Origins Online which allowed you to play as mooks who had a first person shooter liked gameplay which people liked. Im still shocked to this day that Suicide Squad turned out the way that it did cause we have seen them do better before
I loved Arkham Origins Online. shame you can't play it no more without a mod on steam that has custom servers that people still go on. it's bitter sweat.
I wonder if Hill was trying to sabotage the project. Maybe he was dissatisfied with being told him and his team had to make a genre of game that they had no experience in. The little bit where he invited his old team to his new company where they'd be "free of WB's pressure and mandates" gave me this thought.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. No way do you create some of the best super hero games in recent decades and then turn around and create slop like this without doing it intentionally. I just hope that this game will be made non-canon, that it's some alternate universe or something, and that we'll get more/better Arkham games in the future. I could even see them doing different super heroes now that the ground work has been laid.
the fact that captain BOOMERANG uses guns sucks plus it also sucks that the developers are getting so much hate for working on this game especially if the rumor of the co creator of rocksteady leaving the team to avoid the back lash it’s true Also I agree that just because rocksteady made a bad game dosen’t mean they can’t make good games and hopefully the game they are working is a Superman game or a new Arkham
After this game, I doubt that WB will trust Rocksteady with a Superman game. I don't think a Superman movie is ever possible. Because so what you will. But the majority of Superman fans will not support a Superman product/game if he has a biological son with Lois who is in a gay relationship. The sales figures prove it.
I would say that DC Comics has to revamp much of the Superman mythos back to what it was pre-Superman's son aging up as non-straight. I doubt Hollyweird will support that. Then there is the Supergirl problem. I don't believe that Supergirl is well integrated with the story of her cousin. There is no way fans like her as an immature young adult. Let me say that I see Kara Zor-El as an openly gay lesbian in a relationship with Lena Luthor. I don't know if you would support that idea. Since to me, her straight choices are boring. Especially since the most logical straight-Kara choice is a pairing with ginger-beta-male-Jimmy Olsen. Then there is the need to integrate John Henry Irons with Natalie Irons as one of Kara's best friends. See? Too much for WB to accept.
I can totally understand Hill's position. He knew from the outset that these changes forced on him by WB would tank the game and without any other options he built himself a life raft and zogged off. It does suck for those left behind but he couldn't take everyone and get away with it.
Huge DC fan here. I have Harley Quinn art all over my home. Dude after I got the last achievement for this game during the same month it came out I haven't touched it since. Game is horrible. And I hate that it is.
Something that makes me think too, in addition to the points you presented. I think they saw the success of the adaptation of The Boys, which came out in 2019, 3 years after the first Suicide Squad, and thought for some reason that what people wanted most was to kill the Justice League heroes. I have this impression because of that live action commercial, where Will Arnet talks about killing the League as if it were the coolest thing in the world. Nobody wanted to kill beloved heroes and make fun of it. At the time I even thought, based on the title, that it was an audacious move by the studio and that they would have an incredible justification in the story to reverse it. But no, it was more of a hasty reading of what the public wanted.
This isn’t even possible since the game was created three years before that. Doesn’t really matter where the idea come from tbh, the game is trash either way
The problem is that companies need to realize that a studio known for making certain type of titles is likely unsuited to making another type! Its like trying to have a studio that makes live service games into one that makes single player games! Mind you its not impossible that they might end up with something halfway decent, but the odds of them producing something as good as the types of games they are known for is less than them working on something they have experience with! Basically, it's a bunch of corporate suits making decisions for things they have little to no understanding of & just assume Rocksteady could make a live service game because the Arkham trilogy was great!
Plus most talents had left Cocksteady by that point so all that's left were a bunch of Yes Men agreeing to whatever top execs wanted without a hint of irony.
8:05 Rocksteady: adding a vehicle when our characters already move very well is stupid. Warner Monreal: I LOVE BRIDGES, MAKE VEHICLES TO CROSS BRIDGES!!
Honestly, the concept is neat, especially if it was a standalone game. Sure, it would still be a bad stiry, but it would be a bad story without connecting to anything.
@silverhawkscape2677 I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stand alone game originally that didn't connect to the arkham games or was an elseworlds story like injustice.
If the developers just came out and said it’s worse than Arkham but it’s a new take that only the minority who like live service might like, then I’d respect them more. But pretending it’s good when it’s just average is the wrong move. Like why not just be honest, had me believing the game was gonna be a surprising great game lol
''maybe with him gone the future might be better'' you really said that about the man behind one the best action superhero studios of the early 2010's Sefton hill? no it wont get better cause he left, it will only get worse.
I personally enjoy the game, but I definitely see the flaws. I think story isn't too bad, and could be way worse. But some of the story they wanted to be left for the dlcs, like how the Justice League we kill are either clones or from a similar, parallel earth. It could've been executed better, but I enjoy it for what it is
This game is just the perfect example of doing everything wrong, like it boggles my mind that DC was like “yeah the c list villains can kill off our most popular heroes, you not what set it in the Arkhamverse while your at it!” Like why did they think killing off one of the most important adaptation of their most iconic character Batman in such an anti climactic way is beyond stupid. Like imagine a Sinister Six game set in the insomniac Spiderverse where the most famous playable character is Shocker and you have to kill off the avengers, and Spider-Man is shot and killed by fucking Screwball.
There was a tweet saying it was Stefon Hill's idea and that at the time Infinity war and Endgame were out which was in inspiration me personally I think it makes much more sense that corporate overlords over at WB were the reasons for all of the crap
So yeah, Harley Quinn and Deadshot are definitely movie versions of themselves. Boomerang’s inclusion came from the movie too as he has nothing to do with Rocksteady or Arkham and I suspect King Shark’s inclusion is also movie driven since he was the second movies’ standout character and Aquaman is straight missing from the Justice League. Plus I get Ezra vibes from SSSKJL’s Flash. I do feel like they may have left out SBI’s involvement in tanking the game but from what I understand you can’t criticize them because they have some kind of strangle hold on the industry. Now if Hill said he needed to escape studio mandates but the mandate wasn’t it being a live service so maybe he was referring to mandates with the story.
I honestly don’t care much that it’s in the Arkham universe. They have the multiverse in the game so this can easily take place in Arkham verse where everything happened the same way but Hal Jordan isn’t the current green lantern for all we know. My main complaint is just repetition during the endgame. Hopefully it pulls a borderlands 3 and starts off crappy but give it some time and it gets better, hopefully
Jason is such a good journalist and author. His articles are great and his books are dime great reads. I'm glad it was him that reported on this dumpster fire because we know he's giving us the truth.
Lore reasons can be a beautiful thing, or a horrible thing. That being said, I knew that there was more nuance to this situation than just “let’s ruin 15 years of storytelling and bring down an entire game studio for fun!”
yea, stinks like a poor attempt at damage control to me, im not born yesterday - put the most of the blame on one guy or couple of guys while the real perpetrators, who are to blame for the abysmal story and characters are'nt mentioned at all, i wouldn't be surprised if they forced Hill out just to have their way with the story and characters.
WB and dc really do need to make more games about different characters batman is not the only character yall got green arrow who yall can easily make a game off of
It’s a matter of who sells. Although I 100% agree. Superman and Flash could work but Green Arrow would be a lot easier. Assassin’s Creed parkour with freeflow combat and trick arrows is a recipe for success
The gameplay is actually fun for a while but does the repetitive. The team(not leaders) really actually did a good job for not having experience for working on a type of game they’ve never done before. Imagine if they could do what they really wanted without leadership fucking them over.
I don't mind in principle if the spinoff material has to incorporate bits of the movies. It's why guys like Rocket Raccoon and Dr. Strange were in Marvel vs Capcom 3 to begin with... but Infinite shafting over the X-Men and Fantastic Four because of the movie rights was just petty. My interpretation is that Suicide Squad takes place in an alternate universe similar to but different than the Arkham universe we played and best ignored for people wanting to do an Arkham binge.
as much as i don't like this game or the game mechanics of Gotham knights, im sure if they were given the chance to remake the games from the ground up but keep the dialogue, it could be possibly better but i highly doubt they would waste their time again.
These companies desperately need people who are knowledgeable of online culture, gaming culture and social media to tell them what the consumer mood is. It's so funny how major corporations keep writing off criticism from gamers online when we're the ones they need to convince to buy their product.
I really want to stress that as bad as baby is at writing, they are a outsourcing company - they write what they are told to write. The studio tells them to put in joker, they put in joker. They tell them to make it like the movie, they make it like the movie. Getting rid of baby wouldn't fix it, getting rid of cynical "chase the latest trend" CEOs will.
@@TheAussieBlue No. Their own website says otherwise. They have IMDB credits for their writing, which a simple consulting agency wouldn't get, because that's not how script doctoring works. Kim Belair admitted as such that they seek out "problems" in the gaming industry, then force their way into studios to "fix" the perceived problems. And if their role was simply to see if it meets "sensitivity checks," they wouldn't need to exist, as studios can hire people internally for that from HR for far cheaper. And on top of all of this, the latest info about them trying to extort Black Myth: Wukong for $7 million confirms what many already suspected about them: they are scammers and ESG bullies intentionally ruining the industry to get rich and push their agenda.
As always, don’t blame the employees just working hard to make a paycheck, blame the leaders who didn’t know how to make a good game. I hope that they see that this game didn’t make money and the other Arkham games made a lot so go back to what makes money since that’s all they seem to care about
No, a lot of times it is the employee’s fault. If it wasn’t why would these devs constantly talk up management on social media, parrot their views word for work or come out publicly supporting this bad stuff. They’re not forced to make social media posts supporting this stuff, they could stay silent. A good example of all this bad stuff in action would be the Saint’s Row Reboot
The people that made those games don't work at rocksteady anymore. It's rocksteady in name only. A lot of the people there, especially the writers, don't like the characters we actually like and want to see. They hate them. Even if they do another single-player game like the old arkham games, it'll either be characters we don't care for or if they give us one we do want, they'll piss all over him. The writing will be atrocious.
@@bryandedon7459It's very largely still the "old rocksteady". The people responsible for the Arkham games tried to cash in on the hype that infinity war had, so they tried to make the heroes lose in the next game. "The writers that love the characters" as you'd call them, jumped ship before the game released so that they wouldn't receive backlash. The current rocksteady team has more integrity than the people who left after forcing their employees to make this shit
I agree with some of the other comments that Sefton Hill taking forever to review progress & having the game delayed may have been an attempt at sabotage, like if the game is constantly failing to come together then surely it'll get cancelled especially since Warner Bros has been lots of projects the past couple of years. Then everyone will be moved to different projects that they can be passionate about and/or maybe successfully pitch a different game to the exeutives. However this project ended up being one of the few that the executives were adamant on releasing, regardless of how many people complained online or within the development team. It was probably based entirely on statistics "This movie did extremely well and this type of game is doing extremely well, so surely our game that's based on both will do extremely well!" "It doesn't matter that it's been several years since the movie came out, and this type of gameplay has been overdone by this point the numbers say it'll make money!" "What do you mean we've lost hundreds of millions of dollars because of this game?" At this point I'm waiting for the inevitable announcement of the game's various season passes being cancelled, the game's a flop which means the executives will want to stop spending resources on it. The question now is if the devs will be able to put out an actual ending or if the game's story will straight up be unfinished as one last insult to everyone including the people who like the game.
As much as I'd like to see a proper follow-up to the Arkham games, I truly think Rocksteady should take some time away from the Arkham-verse to just recharge themselves from the IP and probably use the time to make something else, even if it's something original inhouse
i still think this article was bought by WB there's a lot of words people already said about the squad and they literally just want to put a blame on someone fans knew and that they're the bad guys now not "poor WB"
The actual reason is that Sweet Baby Inc steered the development and practically no one from the initial Arkham series was still working with the company or in the development
It makes sense because the first two games were written by Dini knight has a good premise for story but the story isn’t the best because it was more level game based than story Pual Dini said he planned the story to be about hush and crane but he didn’t wrote anything at all (I think he would’ve kept crane and left hush out of the main story)
I haven't played this game, but it seems to me that the connections this game has to the Arkham series are so thin it could be just easy to retcon them to not be connected, I'm saying it isn't personally, it just feels like they said that so the game could sell better
Suicide Squad is not a failed concept for a live service. It's actually baffling how they messed this up. So, Amanda Waller sends the squad out on dangerous missions all the time. Because of that the game could have worked more like the newer Hitman games where you have a big open area to do the mission. Anything from killing terrorists, stealing important information or some other dangerous or trivial task that Waller has. There could be an overarching plot but it doesn't have to as long as the characters are good. And make it no multiverse or them killing the Justice League. Because the former is very dumb and ruins most stories, and the latter is so unrealistic that it isn't even funny - anyone who's seen the cutscenes knows what I'm saying. It's crazy how they dropped the ball with this.
I really don't understand either. On telling them every aspect of the game gone wrong, they either dismiss it as "Oh you are not a real fan you don't get it" or "Just wait till the game is FINISHED", like they are actively coping on the fact live service is MEANT to be terrible from the start and will be finished after years of releasing contents or people who criticized it are no longer fans. They are the schmucks developers listen to nowadays.
How to fix Rookstedy reputeitio: 1. Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League takes place a alternetiv univers like is erth 4, erth 2 is erth 5 and erth 1 contains all the ather Arkham games from 2009, exept for Arkham Kniths wich can take place in like erth 3. 2. Superman and Batman had too of a strong mind so brainac kildem and took over they're bodys and turn them into zombis he control but he cod control only 1 at a time thet is way sperma and Batman don't fith together. 3. Port the game to PS 4/Xbox one at 30 USD and 40 USD PS 5/Xbox series, 10 next gen upgrade, 60 USD the delaxul. 4. Afther the Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League situaision is calm down leth the comuniti wich WB existing ip shod they go or a new if to go with a new ip and wath idei shod they go with.
Idea, next Batman Arkham game can be (Batman-Arkham Extinction), we start off with Batman waking up inside a brainiac control pod, his system is shut down sense the squad killed the first Brainiac, he escapes the ship and now it's all open world, except all his gadgets are gone, Batman has no gadgets except say like his batclaw, (for traveling), the rest of the game is him staying undercover cause Waller is out to kill him (because of the clone Batman) and he has to find a way to get the other justice League, who are in the other dimensions that the squad have gone too, it's a way to not completely screw up the Arkham verse, and it's a way to give more to the franchise so people who have played forever will need to adapt just like Batman to having no gadgets, and new people will be introduced to a nerfed Batman and then go back and play the fully powered Batman.
Sefton Hill was obviously trying to avoid making the game because he knew it would fail and dc. These are just digging their own grave which is sad to see
Rocksteady was known for making amazing single player games, they've never done multiplayer or live-service. There's tons of studios that were "well respected" that have fallen as well quality wise over the years. I think they either sabotage this game or dropped the ball, the end-game loop is pretty much copy and paste from most dungeon crawlers or loot shooters but in way more vanilla and lifeless way, so that mixed with people just having crazy expectations in their minds because it was "rocksteady" is 100% what did this game in lol.
The problem is no one sat down and thought about what would actually be worth playing Suicide squad because the property is popular? Sure. Live service is good for certain models of games. Games you'll be playing for a long time that need a lot of content in order to remain fresh. Like fall guys or other multilayer games. You want it to base around that model. Not to fall into the trap of overmonetization I recommend instead looking at more successful online 4 player games and looking at what made them good and seeing if suicide squad can fir the same formulae. An idea. Suicide squad but it's like the payday franchise. Coop of up to 4 people can play from a roster of characters with different playstyles and load outs. Performing heists or assassinations on different famous buildings in the dc universe. From star labs to maybe a superheroes secret base to even the watch tower and you're taking out lesser powered heroes while the big guns are away. The problem is they wanted to make the game too big by involving superman and then it's just a superman or justice league game. Show us less popular villains who would get arrested and forced into the suicide squad and show off their powers. Like rat catcher taking out electrical systems or maybe killer Croc or king shark infiltrating through the water. A game like that which has a lot of flavour that would need to be worked on for a long time would be live service.
I’m playing it right now. It’s a good game but how they disrespect Batman was kind of out of wine. They could’ve done a few things better. It’s a decent game. I don’t like how they added the pride shit though
Was Deadshot even in the most recent Suicide Squad? I’m pretty sure they had a different character. One that can call in weapons from anywhere. In the comics he was mapping the multiverse for Waller
Margot Robbie has been dictating how Harley will look for years. Injustice 2 and Harley Quinn (cartoon) wrote her very well, but somehow they felt forced to copy her look from that crime against cinema.
I've been playing the game since it was free from Amazon a couple weeks ago. I would definitely say, it's not a bad game and I even think if any other studio had made it, it could have had some success. Still, just making it single player or co-op with more diverse missions would have been the best decision.
The biggest mistake was making this live service without even considering rocksteady isn't like a big studio that houses alot of staff that keep the game going. Second biggest mistake was making this game tied to the Arkham universe, if this had been a different universe then maybe it wouldn't be hated as bad it is now. Other mistake was not taking into consideration how story doesn't make sense which goes back to my second point on making this tied to the Arkham universe. Truth be told, WB and Rocksteady really messed up big time with this game. Had they just make this its own universe, get feedback on the gameplay by the fans, and take a step back with the story then maybe it would've been an ok game.
I had a high school classmate tell me she was thinking about quitting school two days before a 2 week long group project was due. Also, it was a two person project. Also, it was a huge part of our grade. Then after letting me waste time trying to get her to stay on, she only told me the next day that she had done nothing on the project. She was supposed to do a poster for it. I wasted most of the time trying to find out what she had done, which was nothing. I stayed up all night, bashing together something to make up for being the only one person presenter with no poster. It was 2002, and I definitely couldn't get a poster on Stalin done on such short notice. So I used my very 90s art program, printed out a communist looking hat brim, printed some rainbow stickers that said the students' and some black and red stickers that said the teacher's. Then I went in and went full ham on the class, sending the teacher and a student to "Siberia" after slapping stickers on stuff. I did manage to get a halfway decent grade, probably because the entire class was actually laughing at the jokes and paying attention to me mocking Stalin's policies. I had a kid say he is never going to forget that presentation while he was still laughing. It was actually an informative speech, albeit a very tongue in cheek one. My character became increasingly paranoid about the teacher taking control back, randomly banished another student, went on about how we should even delete them from photos. Then I attacked religion, started collectivisation, and suggested that the old churches made good grain silos. The whole time I acted more and more self important and paranoid, letting that increase gradually. It really showed well how Stalin was, casually suggesting liquidization. Sadly, most projects do not improve under such circumstances. I think the project would have been pretty tame had I not had to scramble to make something good enough to get over missing one third of the project. I'm amazed it worked and I got a B. Too bad this game couldn't figure out how to make humor work in their favor the same way. Probably because my report was about an hour instead of interminable, and didn't cost $75 per person.
I swear, Shareholders aren't real people. They're weird synthetic things that try to guess what people will like based on buzzwords. "Live service? Hmn, yes! I too am a people that enjoys the Live Service in the video games. Other fellow people will also like this and give us all of their currency."
Despite goofing off sometimes, I try and stay away from conspiracy theories, even petty ones about video game companies. I will say that something seemed 'off' about this whole idea for a long time, as very little about it made sense. The idea seemed to be based on the "Suicide Squad Vs. JLA" idea from th comics, yet they were using WB movie designs, and those movies while apparently doing okay were not supposed to have been mega successes that I would have expected to spawn this kind of video game investment. Especially since the fan reception was very mediocre, especially to the first one. "Suicide Squad" never being an A-list IP as was mentioned here. I did hear some stuff about "toxic positivity" among the design team, and some weird stories I heard here and there is why I gave this one a pass as I'm exactly the person who this should have been for, given that I thought both Suicide Squad movies were okay, and really liked a lot of the comics going back a long time. Weird rumors is why I gave this one a major pass. While my source isn't exactly super reliable, some people claiming to be under NDAs I met in MMOs. It mostly occurs to me that this is weirdly accurate in the way some things were said to what they described. According to their story this game is part of a corporate espionage campaign. The basic gist of it is that since Disney bought Marvel, there has been a coalition of investors who are fans of certain IPs, their endgame plan is that they want to get DC and Marvel under one banner, which is something fans had been drooling over for a very long time, and things like Star Wars and Star Trek are also targets. The thing is what this "Billionaire Boy's Club" has in mind would set off all kinds of alarm bells about monopolies and such, so their plan is to try and devalue all of this stuff given where it was going even before Disney took over, and then the argument can't be made that they are doing anything wrong, as they point to the foreign market as competition and argue the need for US pop culture to re-build. This is supposed to be why so many investors haven't jumped ship on all these failures, and will soak 200 million in losses on a game like this, with certain studios being in on it. The bottom line is they are bankrolling failure so they can take everything over and then once they have all these once competing franchises under their umbrella they can do it all right and be the god kings of pop culture. According to this no longer will people wonder what would happen if the Justice League and Avengers existed in the same universe, because they will... and given what these idiots are doing, people will welcome their dare I say... Amalgam creation. This is the real reason, the investors, or enough of them, keep bankrolling the same garbage, it's working as intended as IP value is dropping and stocks are tanking. Supposedly the people involved are mostly American, but some like Elon Musk might be involved, and the bottom line is they can afford it, especially working together and eventually we'll see the endgame when these things get sold, bought out, bounce around, and then wind up under the same umbrella with annoucements like "Finally DC and Marvel together", these IPs are in many cases even older than the people doing it, so it takes major effort and they figure stuff like that is worth controlling, not to mention the people doing it are both savvy in business, and genuine fans. You'd be surprised how many math nerds who are good at finance, were picked on and loved comic books and Star Wars and stuff. Or so this conspiracy says. For those who read this far, the most insane bit is my source says, I will know it's all true, when we see a Star Wars/Star Trek mini-series that sets up an ultimate fan wank crossover... which nerds had been arguing for a long time. Supposedly we will know it's their version as they will be setting it up where Star Trek is supposed to be like the future of earth and forward of here, where the set up will literally have time travel elements where the Star Wars stuff will be crossing over from earlier in the time line, in an entirely different galaxy. Literally "A long, long, time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away". Supposedly the idea is going to be that the so called Q Continuum will be re-defined for this as super powerful intelligent force entities, similar to what Valkorian wasin SWTOR, but more so, that exist far later in the time line from anything that happens in any of the Star Wars material ever produced, with the possible implication being that something wipes out all the Star Wars stuff, and part of why the time travel stuff is happening from their end is to prevent that from happening. It's apparently a work in progress from a number of investors as these are secondary licenses, but very much in their sights now... but I might be enjoying this resurgence when I am retirement age (a little over 15 years) perhaps sooner, depending on how things play out.... but it will be carefully scripted to seen spontaneous as opposed to manipulated.... and yes, i know... that does sound like someone's fan fiction, but sometimes that can be good... and well, it is probably at least slightly more creative than what we're getting now.
I mixed up James Gunn’s Suicide Squad Movie with the the garbage one. My bad but point still stands 🤝
Dont worry, we all commit mistakes
That's what makes us human
@@frank8917 what a legend reply
@@frank8917 I understood that reference.
I found both Suicide Squad movies mid, first one was okay, wasn't garbage, but wasn't great either, just like James Gunn's version. Though I think they should have stuck to using the already established Arkhamverse Suicide Squad from Batman Assault on Arkham. Would have made a lot more sense, and no need to race swap Deadshot, or gender swap Mr. Freeze since there's already Killer Frost.
Hold on so WB considered the original Suicide Squad movie a success ? not the one from James Gunn ?????
So you’re telling me the game was bad because of poor management? Shockerrrr
“I will chase you to the ends of the Earth!”
And the Woke shit.
management thta had SBI in its ear
@@Aleks96wokeness got nothing to do with it
@@OteimPrincewill Woknis has everything to do with it!
James did the one in 2021 bruh.
WB did 2016.
doesn’t really matter though
Damn my sense of time is ass
Point still stands tho
@@GothamPaladin I agree. I was really excited for this game, then I beat it & got bored of it.
I have a love/hate/whythefuckdoesthisgameathing type of relationship with SS. I only go back to play as Boomerang tbh.
@@GothamPaladinlol, I thought that was a joke as in the 2016 shitty one by WB never existed 😂
Jared Leto Joker is ass. Rather have Joaquin Phoenix continue to play joker. Never any good live action jokers anymore ever since Heath Ledger died.
Soon the game will not be canon ha ha ha.
We can only hope
The best option honestly
@@megatron2171 maybe a soft reboot for arkham
Literally the ONLY way to get the fans back on their side and the only way for them to show they have their fucking head straight now
Make this Harley’s crazy dream. The devs can do this in Arkham Shadow
They should have made Aaron Cash commissioner sense Gordon is the Mayor
@@bigwhopper6501uh he became one in arkham knight and he became police commisioner after jim gordon running for mayor
*since. Bro are you a child or dumb?
Honestly I feel like the founders didn’t want to make this game and were self sabotaging the project until they realized it was going to happen so they abandoned ship.
Exactly my comment
agree
Its obvious. Bloomberg hit piece.
If that's true that's a great decision
Stop trying to have sympathy. Sefton Hill was forcing his whole team to scrap the Arkham formula in favour of a fortnite shooter.
Please accept that bloody advice for gods sake.
The thing is, SSKTJL was in production WAY BEFORE James Gunn’s The Suicide Squad.
They probably started production around the flop of the 1st one which makes no sense.
And I also feel like the reason Sefton Hill took so long to review stuff, is because he didn’t want to make this game.
Just my thoughts
I heard the first one made a ton of money, so it still makes business sense to try to capitalize on that.
Sefton Hill activated the knightfall protocol, and dipped 😂
an a-hole through and through that guy was, anyway, I have yet to see what his new studios where he ignore employees until the last second works.
It's a travesty that the legendary Kevin Conroy's last voiced game as Batman is suicide squad
Turned out he did some lines for MultiVersus which just got re-released, so that's... something, I guess?
At least you can tell by his performance he had a blast doing it.
i believe Crisis on infinite earths was his actual last performance since it released in July 16, 2024 where as this crap released in February.
@@madsteve92if they actually cared they’d know that already
Rocksteady - made its money on single player stories.
WB - Na you need to do live service
They should just expanding the lore as online game in Arkham Verse instead.
Like playing as our custom charactors in Gotham or Metropolis or something like that.
The best part about hitting rock bottom is it's only upwards from here on. Whatever comes next can't be worse
Insert J Jonah Jameson laughing meme here
th-cam.com/video/lhckuhUxcgA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AB0861_gzKhqMY7k
It can.
Oh they pull out the shovels and tnt and drills.
Good job on tempting fate.
2:38 I strongly disagree with you because part of why Arkham Asylum was made was because of WB/DC riding the hype train of the Dark Knight films (More specifically Batman begins)..
The main issue is that RockSteady isn't how it is used because of how it changed dramatically
Actually there was a game with more influence from the dark knight movies but it was cancelled in favor of letting the Arkham games stand on there own
The difference is WB was more ok with Batman Arkham Asylum being more of it's own thing and not tying it so much to the movies as Suicide Squad was. Allowing the studio to do their own take on these characters that was darker but, not having to go the full realism route that Nolan did. In addition to not changing these characters to be more like their Nolanverse counterparts like they did with Harley Quinn and Deadshot in the game.
I remeber when everyone was screaming it was sweet baby Inc's fault. Turns out it was poor leadership choices. Bad management and bad ceos fuck things up.
2:10 2016? The one by James Gunn was in 2021. The 2016 film was panned by critics and was wildly hated.
Huh?
It was still considered a (slight) commercial success. This game has basically been in development hell for 7 years
True he did misspeak here however tho it was widely hated the film did well financially
At the end of the day the executives aren't looking at reviews they're looking at money what brings in money
I loved the first one
The 2016 suicide squad movie wasn't James guun
The game is so bad like the story sucks and the gameplay is so boring
yet people will tell you it's good. I don't think this crap is worth the price they chare for it.
@@LB-hr9vu the game should be free to play or at least not as expensive
@@lolbitandftfoxysayhello6262 Exactly! this game should not cost 50$.
@@LB-hr9vu Maeby 20$ or even 32$
@@LB-hr9vuThose people lack brains.
The worst part is the game had potential before the shift to live service, but let’s explore how it could have been done better with that constraint in mind from the getgo.
Metropolis is already beautiful and well planned, the close quarters combat is currently functional but a hard focus on Close Combat needs to happen. The beginning of the story is servicable. A group of villains are forced to team up to fight a group of brainwashed heroes, and manage to find their way into a vacant bat cave. Brilliant. Let’s say they’re in a contingency batcave beneath the Metropolis where Batman was storing experimental gear to use against the league in a similar eventuality. This is where everything should come together. This is the squad’s new base.
First, we need to gear up. Scrap the guns, the bat cave can offer a variety of thematic, fun weapons and would naturally be restricted from creating most firearms. Set Brother Ai or Oracle up in the bat computer to give over access to the bat cave’s trophies and it’s gadget fabricators. Have the squad sworn in as honorary Bats, because the global threat is so dire that villains may be the world’s best hope. They won’t get access to drive Batman’s batmobile, use his themed personal gear, or wear his suit, but by taking down enemies they can spend XP to upgrade anything else or requisition villainous devices from past capers like mr freeze’s freeze ray or joker’s acid. They can also take down brainwashed heroes and opportunistic villains around town to grab their gimmicks or tools to open up a new range of fabricatable gear.
Harley’s old gimmick weapons can be retrofitted with Wayne tech to give them a wow factor and versatility, and she can access experimental compounds like Shark Repellant to add levity. Deadshot finds a suit from his younger days and augments it with a utility belt, non-lethal elemental ammo, and detective vision goggles. Captain Boomerang gets access to the Baterangs, robin-range, and his own themed suit, a dream come true. King Shark rips the guts out of the bat power-armor and wears the carapace like a cardboard suit. He is very proud of his ingenuity.
I suspect the desired pivot to vehicle transport was motivated by secondary gear/customization opportunities, so let’s actually try to follow that logic. We need to alter the traversal anyway because what we have in the game currently only works for combat. For overworld movement it is floaty and slow. Instead, Harley can have her signature bicycle with bat-cycle upgrade options to grapnel-turn, launch gadgets, or drive up walls. Deadshot’s suit can be upgraded to a wing suit with retrorockets similar to Batman beyond’s suit. Captain boomerang would have a boomerang themed drone platform, similar to green goblin’s that doubles as a giant boomerang he can aim at enemies like an orbital strike, or use as cover. We can’t access the Batmobile, so the team takes out its signature jetengine and then straps it haphazardly to king shark’s armor. He can now tear through the city like a megashark with a rocket strapped to it’s back, which he is.
This sets up things mechanically. The story needed to bring in a wider range of second string heroes and villains that the squad could chew on and interact with during their quest to ultimately take down Brainiac, and unlock recordings of leaguers that Batman may have obtained to profile each of the heroes while establishing his contingency protocols. Brainiac’s control being absolute isn’t a problem, but the leaguers being brainwashed means that they need to express themselves as if they were not brainwashed but were instead deeply deluded. It can be revealed later that these husks of heroes are just ChatGPT driven corpses tasked with exploiting heroes hopes that they’re in there somewhere. It takes the villains to finally put them down for good.
The endgame needs to conclude with the defeat of this earth’s brainiac, and the post game should be a conquest mode to reclaim the city from new threats looking to walk on Superman’s or the league’s grave.
Combat for each member must then also change with the gear.
Harley is the CQC combo queen that uses gasses, grapnels, acrobatics, blunt melee weapons, and a boxing-glove-extending modified grapnel to dispatch foes. Higher combos lead to Mania bonuses that lead to more powerful attacks.
Deadshot is all about zoning using misdirection and traps, then taking out marked targets with extreme damage from mid to long range. He builds up tunnel vision during melee combat, allowing him to mark and deal extreme damage to a single target. His play style creates distance or disengage opportunities to allow enemies to chase you into traps.
Captain boomerang is all about setup and payoff. He can call in his giant boomerang, send out returners to deal damage from unexpected angles to bypass shields, and send out flocks of boomerangs that need to be juggled to build combo. Combos lead to Masterstrokes that send boomerangs out with massive arcs or with gimmicks attached that come back after 5 seconds to deal massive damage if the combo is maintained during that time. These masterstrokes act like helldiver orbitals in their ability to destroy foes caught in the aoe.
King shark booster thrusts and hulk jumps into battle, landing and causing devastation. He builds frenzy for each injured, active foe, enhancing his lunging bite attacks. He deals aoe with big swings and massive charges. He focuses on big smacks of damage, drawing Aggro, and gets big grab attacks on single targets in Execute range of low health.
Rocksteady studio was the equivalent of spongebob's mind meme.
Putting it in the Arkham verse was such a bad idea because the amount of plotholes is insane
I wonder if Sefton didnt review the work of his team because he was fed up with WB and kept putting off the reviews as a way to delay the game in defiance. As you said we dont know the real reasons, not to mention the internal issues with conduct of their employees.
Any case i hope Rocksteady and Seftons new studio success in their next game.
Supposedly they wanted to make the game in the first place 🤷♀️
@@Paradox-es3bl...But probably not like it is now!
I would like an Arkham style Suicide squad game!
Harley, Boomerang,Dead shot and King shark could have had unique fighting styles!
And there could have been way more characters to play as!🫤
There won’t be any more games.
@@HerowebcomicsThat was the game I was expecting.
That's kinda what I understood from his memo to Rocksteady employees saying that they would be free from WB's mandates and pressures if they left and joined him. With how much love and attention was put into the rest of the Arkham series, it really doesn't seem like he would do a complete 180 on how he managed things unless he just really didn't want to see this project see the light.
With the money they lost on this game, they could have given us that Man of Steel sequel they should have given us years ago. Or a second Justice League to wrap up the DCEU and give everyone closure.
In the meantime, DC Universe Online has continued to quietly update their game with new content and stories a decade after release on multiple platforms like nothing ever happened. That game has outlived the New 52 AND will outlive KTJL.
Yeah! I've been playing dcuo and enjoying it WAY more then the other games that WB was pushing for.
Does that mean we could get a Workers cut?
Considering Sefton Hill (and the other co-founder) was the one responsible for three of the best superhero games of all time, I highly doubt he all of a sudden lost his way and became a bad leader
Him delaying reviewing his team’s work certainly didn’t help matters but it seems to be more intentional rather than not. It was even mentioned in the video that after starting his new company, Hill reached out to some of their old co workers offering them the opportunity to make a game free from the pressure of WB
Seems pretty obvious that he was unhappy with what WB was forcing him & his team to do. He was stalling intentionally to either bide time until he was able to start his own company or maybe as a way to express his disinterest in the game to WB
It seems like he knew the game couldn't be saved and was trying to abandon ship
@@twinodoom Exactly
That was my take as well. It sounds like Sefton and Jaime Walker are getting thrown under the bus for this, but it strikes me that they didn't even want to do a Suicide Squad game. That was WB's idea. They've had a hard-on to shove Suicide Squad down the public's throat for over a decade, whether we wanted it or not. When a film director finally managed to make a decent film out of the idea, they gave him the keys to the damn kingdom.
My take is that Jaime and Sefton were just following orders. Their seeming lack of concern could just as likely have been utter demoralization that the success they built was yanked out of their hands. What did they care anymore? They took their paychecks, put together a nest-egg, and started over. The only difference between them and Kojima is that they didn't make a fuss. Which ended up backfiring on them, because now they're getting the blame for everything.
I watched WB do the exact same thing in the 80s and 90s after Frank Miller turned Batman into the most popular character in pop culture. Eventually, Frank decided "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," and cranked out crap like The Dark Knight Strikes Back. But lemme tell ya, I attended more than a few Comic-Con panels in the early '90s where Frank Miller expressed no small amount of resentment over the way his work was just taken out of his hands and exploited for all it was worth.
I'm not gonna dig too deep, but with recent issues in general with WB, I'm sure this was a game they were forced to make rather than wanted to. I can definitely see for the last 15 years working on a series out of passion for the IP just to be told a 180 flip in direct is demanded, would suck any enthusiasm out of you. By no means am I excusing the founders' lack of cooperation and departure, but I can see why
I regret pre ordering it
As you should. Don’t pre-order games.
@@Paradox-es3bl I mean I don't regret preordering Resident Evil 4 Remake. That shit and the Deluxe edition was lit.
I don't
@@Baised-_-RinYou now see how bad it is.
@@Paradox-es3blI pre ordered Elden ring and the DLC i don’t give a fck lol sometimes you can
The whole time we thought this was coming from fresh new minds in rocksteady but it turns out this idea was coming from one of the founders they should have kept Paul Dini that man's writing when comes to Batman is immaculate
Says a sweet baby defender who wrote the article!
Of course he is not going to say it was them!
...Even though the game is just like the kind of games they like to make.😡
It would’ve been a great game if Paul Dini wrote the script and the DCAU actors were reprising their roles as Flag, Waller, Luthor, Brainiac and the JL.
@@cameronmcewen7192 that's true I agree with you
@@cameronmcewen7192 I'm down for any Paul Dini Batman project
Especially for Arkham Knight. That story sucked so much.
The funny thing is this game being a shooting game could have worked too. Remember Gotham City Imposters and Arkham origins Online?
Not really. The whole problem is that most of the squad does not use guns as their primary weapon. It is not a problem gameplay wise really
@@extonjonas6820 why not then make it both focused on gunplay and well Melee? I Mean Wb made Arkham Origins Online which allowed you to play as mooks who had a first person shooter liked gameplay which people liked. Im still shocked to this day that Suicide Squad turned out the way that it did cause we have seen them do better before
I loved Arkham Origins Online. shame you can't play it no more without a mod on steam that has custom servers that people still go on. it's bitter sweat.
@@LB-hr9vu I should probably get that mod so I can play Origins Online.
@@Samuel152 the people who do go on it are real chill as they go on it from time to time. it's better if you play it with friends of course.
I wonder if Hill was trying to sabotage the project. Maybe he was dissatisfied with being told him and his team had to make a genre of game that they had no experience in. The little bit where he invited his old team to his new company where they'd be "free of WB's pressure and mandates" gave me this thought.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. No way do you create some of the best super hero games in recent decades and then turn around and create slop like this without doing it intentionally. I just hope that this game will be made non-canon, that it's some alternate universe or something, and that we'll get more/better Arkham games in the future. I could even see them doing different super heroes now that the ground work has been laid.
No Hill fd up. So in the End WB and Hill deserve it.
Kind of ironic because an actual justice league game could work with live service in mind
the fact that captain BOOMERANG uses guns sucks plus it also sucks that the developers are getting so much hate for working on this game especially if the rumor of the co creator of rocksteady leaving the team to avoid the back lash it’s true
Also I agree that just because rocksteady made a bad game dosen’t mean they can’t make good games and hopefully the game they are working is a Superman game or a new Arkham
After this game, I doubt that WB will trust Rocksteady with a Superman game. I don't think a Superman movie is ever possible. Because so what you will. But the majority of Superman fans will not support a Superman product/game if he has a biological son with Lois who is in a gay relationship. The sales figures prove it.
I would say that DC Comics has to revamp much of the Superman mythos back to what it was pre-Superman's son aging up as non-straight. I doubt Hollyweird will support that. Then there is the Supergirl problem. I don't believe that Supergirl is well integrated with the story of her cousin. There is no way fans like her as an immature young adult. Let me say that I see Kara Zor-El as an openly gay lesbian in a relationship with Lena Luthor. I don't know if you would support that idea. Since to me, her straight choices are boring. Especially since the most logical straight-Kara choice is a pairing with ginger-beta-male-Jimmy Olsen. Then there is the need to integrate John Henry Irons with Natalie Irons as one of Kara's best friends. See? Too much for WB to accept.
I can totally understand Hill's position. He knew from the outset that these changes forced on him by WB would tank the game and without any other options he built himself a life raft and zogged off. It does suck for those left behind but he couldn't take everyone and get away with it.
Correction: 2016 was not named gunns suicide squad it was David ayers
And the cut we got wasn’t even his vision.
Thank you Jason for putting your self though hell just for a article
He's a Bloomberg reporter not a D Day survivor.
@@Awesomeisme7000No one asked you.
Huge DC fan here. I have Harley Quinn art all over my home. Dude after I got the last achievement for this game during the same month it came out I haven't touched it since. Game is horrible. And I hate that it is.
Something that makes me think too, in addition to the points you presented. I think they saw the success of the adaptation of The Boys, which came out in 2019, 3 years after the first Suicide Squad, and thought for some reason that what people wanted most was to kill the Justice League heroes. I have this impression because of that live action commercial, where Will Arnet talks about killing the League as if it were the coolest thing in the world. Nobody wanted to kill beloved heroes and make fun of it. At the time I even thought, based on the title, that it was an audacious move by the studio and that they would have an incredible justification in the story to reverse it. But no, it was more of a hasty reading of what the public wanted.
This isn’t even possible since the game was created three years before that. Doesn’t really matter where the idea come from tbh, the game is trash either way
The problem is that companies need to realize that a studio known for making certain type of titles is likely unsuited to making another type! Its like trying to have a studio that makes live service games into one that makes single player games! Mind you its not impossible that they might end up with something halfway decent, but the odds of them producing something as good as the types of games they are known for is less than them working on something they have experience with!
Basically, it's a bunch of corporate suits making decisions for things they have little to no understanding of & just assume Rocksteady could make a live service game because the Arkham trilogy was great!
Plus most talents had left Cocksteady by that point so all that's left were a bunch of Yes Men agreeing to whatever top execs wanted without a hint of irony.
What he will not mention is hiring a ton of very poorly underqualified people as the studio bled senior talent.
Sorry but my monumental dislike for Harley Quinn protects me from Suicide Squad based projects. It's a rare genetic immunity to cancer.
Funky, I only dislike her after TAS was done and gone, it's like they forgot what she was supposed to be.
8:05 Rocksteady: adding a vehicle when our characters already move very well is stupid.
Warner Monreal: I LOVE BRIDGES, MAKE VEHICLES TO CROSS BRIDGES!!
…you do realize it was Sefton Hill who pitched the idea for vehicles not WB right?
@@morris01I think they are referring to Gotham knights and Arkham origins
Are they stupid?
If they don’t make that damn Batman beyond sequel to knight im gonna…
Personally my least fav Batman design in the Arkham Verse
its still really good! Its just the others hit so much harder for me
Honestly, the concept is neat, especially if it was a standalone game. Sure, it would still be a bad stiry, but it would be a bad story without connecting to anything.
Exactly the problem. If it was independent it would be less painful but not got to drag the Arkham series with it.
@silverhawkscape2677 I wouldn't be surprised if this was a stand alone game originally that didn't connect to the arkham games or was an elseworlds story like injustice.
If the developers just came out and said it’s worse than Arkham but it’s a new take that only the minority who like live service might like, then I’d respect them more. But pretending it’s good when it’s just average is the wrong move. Like why not just be honest, had me believing the game was gonna be a surprising great game lol
''maybe with him gone the future might be better'' you really said that about the man behind one the best action superhero studios of the early 2010's Sefton hill? no it wont get better cause he left, it will only get worse.
I personally enjoy the game, but I definitely see the flaws. I think story isn't too bad, and could be way worse. But some of the story they wanted to be left for the dlcs, like how the Justice League we kill are either clones or from a similar, parallel earth. It could've been executed better, but I enjoy it for what it is
This game is just the perfect example of doing everything wrong, like it boggles my mind that DC was like “yeah the c list villains can kill off our most popular heroes, you not what set it in the Arkhamverse while your at it!” Like why did they think killing off one of the most important adaptation of their most iconic character Batman in such an anti climactic way is beyond stupid. Like imagine a Sinister Six game set in the insomniac Spiderverse where the most famous playable character is Shocker and you have to kill off the avengers, and Spider-Man is shot and killed by fucking Screwball.
There was a tweet saying it was Stefon Hill's idea and that at the time Infinity war and Endgame were out which was in inspiration me personally I think it makes much more sense that corporate overlords over at WB were the reasons for all of the crap
So yeah, Harley Quinn and Deadshot are definitely movie versions of themselves. Boomerang’s inclusion came from the movie too as he has nothing to do with Rocksteady or Arkham and I suspect King Shark’s inclusion is also movie driven since he was the second movies’ standout character and Aquaman is straight missing from the Justice League. Plus I get Ezra vibes from SSSKJL’s Flash. I do feel like they may have left out SBI’s involvement in tanking the game but from what I understand you can’t criticize them because they have some kind of strangle hold on the industry. Now if Hill said he needed to escape studio mandates but the mandate wasn’t it being a live service so maybe he was referring to mandates with the story.
I honestly don’t care much that it’s in the Arkham universe. They have the multiverse in the game so this can easily take place in Arkham verse where everything happened the same way but Hal Jordan isn’t the current green lantern for all we know. My main complaint is just repetition during the endgame. Hopefully it pulls a borderlands 3 and starts off crappy but give it some time and it gets better, hopefully
As someone who enjoys Borderlands 3, this game is dead in the water, nothing is saving it.
Jason is such a good journalist and author. His articles are great and his books are dime great reads. I'm glad it was him that reported on this dumpster fire because we know he's giving us the truth.
To be fair, Into the Spider-Verse did influence Insomniac’s Miles Morales 🤷♂️
That's because he was a peter clone in the comics.
Lore reasons can be a beautiful thing, or a horrible thing. That being said, I knew that there was more nuance to this situation than just “let’s ruin 15 years of storytelling and bring down an entire game studio for fun!”
yea, stinks like a poor attempt at damage control to me, im not born yesterday - put the most of the blame on one guy or couple of guys while the real perpetrators, who are to blame for the abysmal story and characters are'nt mentioned at all, i wouldn't be surprised if they forced Hill out just to have their way with the story and characters.
I like the gameplay and characters just the way they killed off characters makes it terrible
Yea, and we can say "thanks" to sweet baby for that
@@JosephPaohe didn’t mention it in the article but it also revealed clone theory and the league is alive
@Flareguy Yea, but they made them into baffling baffoons.
@@JosephPaoLike making wonder woman death being sad while not caring about the others like Batman
You have bad taste.
WB and dc really do need to make more games about different characters batman is not the only character yall got green arrow who yall can easily make a game off of
It’s a matter of who sells. Although I 100% agree. Superman and Flash could work but Green Arrow would be a lot easier. Assassin’s Creed parkour with freeflow combat and trick arrows is a recipe for success
Green arrow Arkhamverse is both possible and an absolutely amazing idea that they’re stupid not to do
I wonder whats gonna happen to dc games in the future with james gunn having dc games connected to the movies and animated stuff
The gameplay is actually fun for a while but does the repetitive. The team(not leaders) really actually did a good job for not having experience for working on a type of game they’ve never done before. Imagine if they could do what they really wanted without leadership fucking them over.
Marvel vs Capcom infinite is more Disney fault because they wanted to promote the MCU characters
I don't mind in principle if the spinoff material has to incorporate bits of the movies. It's why guys like Rocket Raccoon and Dr. Strange were in Marvel vs Capcom 3 to begin with... but Infinite shafting over the X-Men and Fantastic Four because of the movie rights was just petty.
My interpretation is that Suicide Squad takes place in an alternate universe similar to but different than the Arkham universe we played and best ignored for people wanting to do an Arkham binge.
as much as i don't like this game or the game mechanics of Gotham knights, im sure if they were given the chance to remake the games from the ground up but keep the dialogue, it could be possibly better but i highly doubt they would waste their time again.
These companies desperately need people who are knowledgeable of online culture, gaming culture and social media to tell them what the consumer mood is. It's so funny how major corporations keep writing off criticism from gamers online when we're the ones they need to convince to buy their product.
@02:01 Why is Green Lantern wearing a diaper?
Not mentioning the elephant in the room of Sweet Baby Inc and the piss-poor writing they did on it.
I really want to stress that as bad as baby is at writing, they are a outsourcing company - they write what they are told to write. The studio tells them to put in joker, they put in joker. They tell them to make it like the movie, they make it like the movie.
Getting rid of baby wouldn't fix it, getting rid of cynical "chase the latest trend" CEOs will.
@@TheAussieBlue
No. Their own website says otherwise. They have IMDB credits for their writing, which a simple consulting agency wouldn't get, because that's not how script doctoring works. Kim Belair admitted as such that they seek out "problems" in the gaming industry, then force their way into studios to "fix" the perceived problems. And if their role was simply to see if it meets "sensitivity checks," they wouldn't need to exist, as studios can hire people internally for that from HR for far cheaper. And on top of all of this, the latest info about them trying to extort Black Myth: Wukong for $7 million confirms what many already suspected about them: they are scammers and ESG bullies intentionally ruining the industry to get rich and push their agenda.
As always, don’t blame the employees just working hard to make a paycheck, blame the leaders who didn’t know how to make a good game. I hope that they see that this game didn’t make money and the other Arkham games made a lot so go back to what makes money since that’s all they seem to care about
No, a lot of times it is the employee’s fault. If it wasn’t why would these devs constantly talk up management on social media, parrot their views word for work or come out publicly supporting this bad stuff. They’re not forced to make social media posts supporting this stuff, they could stay silent. A good example of all this bad stuff in action would be the Saint’s Row Reboot
@@marcar9marcar972 Some do it because of the Implication.
The people that made those games don't work at rocksteady anymore. It's rocksteady in name only. A lot of the people there, especially the writers, don't like the characters we actually like and want to see. They hate them. Even if they do another single-player game like the old arkham games, it'll either be characters we don't care for or if they give us one we do want, they'll piss all over him. The writing will be atrocious.
@@bryandedon7459It's very largely still the "old rocksteady". The people responsible for the Arkham games tried to cash in on the hype that infinity war had, so they tried to make the heroes lose in the next game. "The writers that love the characters" as you'd call them, jumped ship before the game released so that they wouldn't receive backlash. The current rocksteady team has more integrity than the people who left after forcing their employees to make this shit
I thought it was the game in a nutshell
I agree with some of the other comments that Sefton Hill taking forever to review progress & having the game delayed may have been an attempt at sabotage, like if the game is constantly failing to come together then surely it'll get cancelled especially since Warner Bros has been lots of projects the past couple of years. Then everyone will be moved to different projects that they can be passionate about and/or maybe successfully pitch a different game to the exeutives.
However this project ended up being one of the few that the executives were adamant on releasing, regardless of how many people complained online or within the development team.
It was probably based entirely on statistics "This movie did extremely well and this type of game is doing extremely well, so surely our game that's based on both will do extremely well!" "It doesn't matter that it's been several years since the movie came out, and this type of gameplay has been overdone by this point the numbers say it'll make money!"
"What do you mean we've lost hundreds of millions of dollars because of this game?"
At this point I'm waiting for the inevitable announcement of the game's various season passes being cancelled, the game's a flop which means the executives will want to stop spending resources on it. The question now is if the devs will be able to put out an actual ending or if the game's story will straight up be unfinished as one last insult to everyone including the people who like the game.
10:18 for the people who didn't notice but ClownPuncher139 (or the guy who did the arkham iceberg) was in that part playing king shark
Polka-Dot Man wasn't in it. That's why.
Not even Condiment King, I can’t respect it
As much as I'd like to see a proper follow-up to the Arkham games, I truly think Rocksteady should take some time away from the Arkham-verse to just recharge themselves from the IP and probably use the time to make something else, even if it's something original inhouse
i still think this article was bought by WB there's a lot of words people already said about the squad and they literally just want to put a blame on someone fans knew and that they're the bad guys now not "poor WB"
WB's only fault was greenlighting that garbage.
^ that and pressuring the studio to make something they had no business making
One of the obvious ways the movie harmed this game was the debacle about two Deadshots which raised more questions when we got an answer to it.
The actual reason is that Sweet Baby Inc steered the development and practically no one from the initial Arkham series was still working with the company or in the development
I don't think enough people wanted to kill the justice passe for this game too be successful even if it was a good game
the saddest part is that this will probably be the last arkhamverse game too :(
It makes sense because the first two games were written by Dini knight has a good premise for story but the story isn’t the best because it was more level game based than story
Pual Dini said he planned the story to be about hush and crane but he didn’t wrote anything at all (I think he would’ve kept crane and left hush out of the main story)
Do more research on your videos. James Gunn SS came out in 2021. Had to stop watching this. Get you info right before posting
is like people never do a class work group in the school
I haven't played this game, but it seems to me that the connections this game has to the Arkham series are so thin it could be just easy to retcon them to not be connected, I'm saying it isn't personally, it just feels like they said that so the game could sell better
Suicide Squad is not a failed concept for a live service. It's actually baffling how they messed this up.
So, Amanda Waller sends the squad out on dangerous missions all the time. Because of that the game could have worked more like the newer Hitman games where you have a big open area to do the mission. Anything from killing terrorists, stealing important information or some other dangerous or trivial task that Waller has. There could be an overarching plot but it doesn't have to as long as the characters are good.
And make it no multiverse or them killing the Justice League. Because the former is very dumb and ruins most stories, and the latter is so unrealistic that it isn't even funny - anyone who's seen the cutscenes knows what I'm saying.
It's crazy how they dropped the ball with this.
Honestly I want to know who does love this game? Not to judge but to simply ask… how?
I really don't understand either. On telling them every aspect of the game gone wrong, they either dismiss it as "Oh you are not a real fan you don't get it" or "Just wait till the game is FINISHED", like they are actively coping on the fact live service is MEANT to be terrible from the start and will be finished after years of releasing contents or people who criticized it are no longer fans. They are the schmucks developers listen to nowadays.
How to fix Rookstedy reputeitio:
1. Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League takes place a alternetiv univers like is erth 4, erth 2 is erth 5 and erth 1 contains all the ather Arkham games from 2009, exept for Arkham Kniths wich can take place in like erth 3.
2. Superman and Batman had too of a strong mind so brainac kildem and took over they're bodys and turn them into zombis he control but he cod control only 1 at a time thet is way sperma and Batman don't fith together.
3. Port the game to PS 4/Xbox one at 30 USD and 40 USD PS 5/Xbox series, 10 next gen upgrade, 60 USD the delaxul.
4. Afther the Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League situaision is calm down leth the comuniti wich WB existing ip shod they go or a new if to go with a new ip and wath idei shod they go with.
I mean, i liked the gameplay, it's just the story just didn't work out for me
Idea, next Batman Arkham game can be (Batman-Arkham Extinction), we start off with Batman waking up inside a brainiac control pod, his system is shut down sense the squad killed the first Brainiac, he escapes the ship and now it's all open world, except all his gadgets are gone, Batman has no gadgets except say like his batclaw, (for traveling), the rest of the game is him staying undercover cause Waller is out to kill him (because of the clone Batman) and he has to find a way to get the other justice League, who are in the other dimensions that the squad have gone too, it's a way to not completely screw up the Arkham verse, and it's a way to give more to the franchise so people who have played forever will need to adapt just like Batman to having no gadgets, and new people will be introduced to a nerfed Batman and then go back and play the fully powered Batman.
That’s actually kinda a cool idea that could work, with some refining
It also doesn't help that Margot Robbie is playing New 52 Harley Quinn and the one from The Suicide Squad is Pre-new52 Harley Quinn
5:50 i can understand deadshot using guns, maybe even Harley, but NOT Captain Boomerang
WB should definitely should have a tighter grip on their IP when it comes to large video games like these
Sefton Hill was obviously trying to avoid making the game because he knew it would fail and dc. These are just digging their own grave which is sad to see
Rocksteady was known for making amazing single player games, they've never done multiplayer or live-service. There's tons of studios that were "well respected" that have fallen as well quality wise over the years. I think they either sabotage this game or dropped the ball, the end-game loop is pretty much copy and paste from most dungeon crawlers or loot shooters but in way more vanilla and lifeless way, so that mixed with people just having crazy expectations in their minds because it was "rocksteady" is 100% what did this game in lol.
The problem is no one sat down and thought about what would actually be worth playing
Suicide squad because the property is popular? Sure.
Live service is good for certain models of games.
Games you'll be playing for a long time that need a lot of content in order to remain fresh. Like fall guys or other multilayer games.
You want it to base around that model. Not to fall into the trap of overmonetization
I recommend instead looking at more successful online 4 player games and looking at what made them good and seeing if suicide squad can fir the same formulae.
An idea. Suicide squad but it's like the payday franchise.
Coop of up to 4 people can play from a roster of characters with different playstyles and load outs. Performing heists or assassinations on different famous buildings in the dc universe. From star labs to maybe a superheroes secret base to even the watch tower and you're taking out lesser powered heroes while the big guns are away.
The problem is they wanted to make the game too big by involving superman and then it's just a superman or justice league game.
Show us less popular villains who would get arrested and forced into the suicide squad and show off their powers. Like rat catcher taking out electrical systems or maybe killer Croc or king shark infiltrating through the water.
A game like that which has a lot of flavour that would need to be worked on for a long time would be live service.
Can't wait to play Superman wielding a minigun.
I’m playing it right now. It’s a good game but how they disrespect Batman was kind of out of wine. They could’ve done a few things better. It’s a decent game. I don’t like how they added the pride shit though
Was Deadshot even in the most recent Suicide Squad? I’m pretty sure they had a different character. One that can call in weapons from anywhere. In the comics he was mapping the multiverse for Waller
Bloodsport, I would like to see him in the game
Such a W channel
Margot Robbie has been dictating how Harley will look for years. Injustice 2 and Harley Quinn (cartoon) wrote her very well, but somehow they felt forced to copy her look from that crime against cinema.
I've been playing the game since it was free from Amazon a couple weeks ago. I would definitely say, it's not a bad game and I even think if any other studio had made it, it could have had some success. Still, just making it single player or co-op with more diverse missions would have been the best decision.
The biggest mistake was making this live service without even considering rocksteady isn't like a big studio that houses alot of staff that keep the game going.
Second biggest mistake was making this game tied to the Arkham universe, if this had been a different universe then maybe it wouldn't be hated as bad it is now.
Other mistake was not taking into consideration how story doesn't make sense which goes back to my second point on making this tied to the Arkham universe.
Truth be told, WB and Rocksteady really messed up big time with this game. Had they just make this its own universe, get feedback on the gameplay by the fans, and take a step back with the story then maybe it would've been an ok game.
You know it’s a disaster when the developers are tripping too💀
I had a high school classmate tell me she was thinking about quitting school two days before a 2 week long group project was due. Also, it was a two person project. Also, it was a huge part of our grade. Then after letting me waste time trying to get her to stay on, she only told me the next day that she had done nothing on the project. She was supposed to do a poster for it. I wasted most of the time trying to find out what she had done, which was nothing. I stayed up all night, bashing together something to make up for being the only one person presenter with no poster. It was 2002, and I definitely couldn't get a poster on Stalin done on such short notice. So I used my very 90s art program, printed out a communist looking hat brim, printed some rainbow stickers that said the students' and some black and red stickers that said the teacher's. Then I went in and went full ham on the class, sending the teacher and a student to "Siberia" after slapping stickers on stuff. I did manage to get a halfway decent grade, probably because the entire class was actually laughing at the jokes and paying attention to me mocking Stalin's policies. I had a kid say he is never going to forget that presentation while he was still laughing.
It was actually an informative speech, albeit a very tongue in cheek one. My character became increasingly paranoid about the teacher taking control back, randomly banished another student, went on about how we should even delete them from photos. Then I attacked religion, started collectivisation, and suggested that the old churches made good grain silos.
The whole time I acted more and more self important and paranoid, letting that increase gradually. It really showed well how Stalin was, casually suggesting liquidization.
Sadly, most projects do not improve under such circumstances. I think the project would have been pretty tame had I not had to scramble to make something good enough to get over missing one third of the project. I'm amazed it worked and I got a B.
Too bad this game couldn't figure out how to make humor work in their favor the same way. Probably because my report was about an hour instead of interminable, and didn't cost $75 per person.
I swear, Shareholders aren't real people. They're weird synthetic things that try to guess what people will like based on buzzwords.
"Live service? Hmn, yes! I too am a people that enjoys the Live Service in the video games. Other fellow people will also like this and give us all of their currency."
Despite goofing off sometimes, I try and stay away from conspiracy theories, even petty ones about video game companies. I will say that something seemed 'off' about this whole idea for a long time, as very little about it made sense. The idea seemed to be based on the "Suicide Squad Vs. JLA" idea from th comics, yet they were using WB movie designs, and those movies while apparently doing okay were not supposed to have been mega successes that I would have expected to spawn this kind of video game investment. Especially since the fan reception was very mediocre, especially to the first one. "Suicide Squad" never being an A-list IP as was mentioned here.
I did hear some stuff about "toxic positivity" among the design team, and some weird stories I heard here and there is why I gave this one a pass as I'm exactly the person who this should have been for, given that I thought both Suicide Squad movies were okay, and really liked a lot of the comics going back a long time. Weird rumors is why I gave this one a major pass.
While my source isn't exactly super reliable, some people claiming to be under NDAs I met in MMOs. It mostly occurs to me that this is weirdly accurate in the way some things were said to what they described. According to their story this game is part of a corporate espionage campaign.
The basic gist of it is that since Disney bought Marvel, there has been a coalition of investors who are fans of certain IPs, their endgame plan is that they want to get DC and Marvel under one banner, which is something fans had been drooling over for a very long time, and things like Star Wars and Star Trek are also targets. The thing is what this "Billionaire Boy's Club" has in mind would set off all kinds of alarm bells about monopolies and such, so their plan is to try and devalue all of this stuff given where it was going even before Disney took over, and then the argument can't be made that they are doing anything wrong, as they point to the foreign market as competition and argue the need for US pop culture to re-build. This is supposed to be why so many investors haven't jumped ship on all these failures, and will soak 200 million in losses on a game like this, with certain studios being in on it. The bottom line is they are bankrolling failure so they can take everything over and then once they have all these once competing franchises under their umbrella they can do it all right and be the god kings of pop culture. According to this no longer will people wonder what would happen if the Justice League and Avengers existed in the same universe, because they will... and given what these idiots are doing, people will welcome their dare I say... Amalgam creation. This is the real reason, the investors, or enough of them, keep bankrolling the same garbage, it's working as intended as IP value is dropping and stocks are tanking. Supposedly the people involved are mostly American, but some like Elon Musk might be involved, and the bottom line is they can afford it, especially working together and eventually we'll see the endgame when these things get sold, bought out, bounce around, and then wind up under the same umbrella with annoucements like "Finally DC and Marvel together", these IPs are in many cases even older than the people doing it, so it takes major effort and they figure stuff like that is worth controlling, not to mention the people doing it are both savvy in business, and genuine fans. You'd be surprised how many math nerds who are good at finance, were picked on and loved comic books and Star Wars and stuff. Or so this conspiracy says.
For those who read this far, the most insane bit is my source says, I will know it's all true, when we see a Star Wars/Star Trek mini-series that sets up an ultimate fan wank crossover... which nerds had been arguing for a long time. Supposedly we will know it's their version as they will be setting it up where Star Trek is supposed to be like the future of earth and forward of here, where the set up will literally have time travel elements where the Star Wars stuff will be crossing over from earlier in the time line, in an entirely different galaxy. Literally "A long, long, time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away". Supposedly the idea is going to be that the so called Q Continuum will be re-defined for this as super powerful intelligent force entities, similar to what Valkorian wasin SWTOR, but more so, that exist far later in the time line from anything that happens in any of the Star Wars material ever produced, with the possible implication being that something wipes out all the Star Wars stuff, and part of why the time travel stuff is happening from their end is to prevent that from happening. It's apparently a work in progress from a number of investors as these are secondary licenses, but very much in their sights now... but I might be enjoying this resurgence when I am retirement age (a little over 15 years) perhaps sooner, depending on how things play out.... but it will be carefully scripted to seen spontaneous as opposed to manipulated.... and yes, i know... that does sound like someone's fan fiction, but sometimes that can be good... and well, it is probably at least slightly more creative than what we're getting now.