Dude, this 3yr old vid is still doing God's work, lol. Right in the middle of building a 390 for my 74 Highboy and long story short, I was just getting ready to go the EFI route when I came across your vid. I'm always seeking the opposite opinion to whatever I want so I can get a true picture instead of just pie-eyes and this vid did that for me, so thank you! PS; think I'm going the old-fashion carb route 😅
Follow the directions, make sure you have good grounds and a good constant power. Put an FiTech EFI in my 64 Comet years ago and best thing I have ever done to it. Good clean wiring is your friend.
Just recently put a Fi Tech system on my '79 International Scout that I had been running a Carter AFB carb on since the '90s. I am so glad I did it so far and love what the EFI has done for my classic ride!
Thanks for making this video and pointing out the subtle things that most people (me included) tend to forget about that are needed to make an EFI work correctly. You're right, it's not just the cost of the unit itself.
I put a FiTech 400 HP base unit on a 1979 CJ7 with a mild built AMC 360. - Learning 1) Fuel command unit sucks! Boils fuel and will leave you stranded on the road. I fought this issue for about a year. Absolutely must open the fuel command remove the float and make the vent line a return line to the tank so it is circulating the fuel. 2) Voltage- old wires and modern technology don't mix 3) I was hoping the stinky exhaust smell I had with the carb would be eliminated or reduced with the EFI...Nope still smells terrible. 4) Fuel economy a plus with EFI! 5) Throttle response and cold/warm starts awesome compared to carb 5) Loss of that reliability feeling with EFI. When it stops working...kind of done versus the carb it never left me stranded.
I’m running a Holley sniper efi with a summit racing blueprint HEI distributor and MSD wires. I did buy the master kit, so it included everything, but it runs amazing. I also upgraded the alternator to a Tuff Stuff 120amp to help give clean more steady power. Seems to all work together great!
i did an atomic efi on my 67 impala and the only extra thing i had to buy was the return kit.. it came with the new fuel pump filters, everything… i did upgrade the whole ignition system with all msd components while i was in there… love it, will never run a carb ever again…!!! woke up my little 283…
Took years to get my haltech e8 running good in my 1987 rx7. My car came EFI but I originally thought a standalone would solve all the problems. Now I preach to only install ems on cars that run great haha. Thanks!
Good advice Nash, I installed the Fitech, I was an early adopter. I tried their “command center” thinking it would simplify my installation since I have dual tanks on my 1971 Bronco. I’ve since gone to frame mounted pumps with returns, then that progressed to in tank fuel pumps.. I probably have had every issue you touched on, spark plug wires arching, command center overheating and killing fuel pumps, wiring harness melted at an early style harness. Now I’m 5 plus years forward running two separate in tank pumps, using a relay triggered by my fuel pump wire to take the load off of the Fitech ECU.. I’m happy with the overall performance vs a carburetor.. no hot start issues and cranks up like a champ.
@@NashvilleEarlyBronco it’s been a process, but one mostly everything was not related to the throttle body itself. So ignition issues and fuel delivery issues, and me not knowing what I’m doing and learning as I go.. lately I wonder about fitech’s quality, I see quite a few ecu failure complaints on the fitech forum pages.. but overall I’m satisfied.. I’m about to install a sniper setup on a friends 74 Bronco.. I’m going to use all of my lessons learned installing mine to hopefully make this go super smooth.. !!! Love your channel by the way!!
I’ve got the Holley sniper system on my 302 and I absolutely love it. I made it easy and also purchased the entire Hyperspark ignition system by Holley. Everything was plug and play. Best part about it is SummitRacings and Holleys knowledge you can draw from. Great product!
all the problems with carbs can be solved at home without any phone calls and new motherboards waiting to arrive. Glad I learned how to make carbs happy I keep airboats running andwith all theother issues we have a carb is never the problem even though it is blamed alot.
I'm running a Fitech 600 blowthrough turbo on my "66". Mostly happy with it with the exception of a lean tip-in after a deceleration moment that I can't seem to tune out. Also doesn't seem to be as responsive off idle as a carb. I have learned a lot with tuning Fitech but still I'd like to get that dialed in 100% I'm sure these problems can be addressed with professional EFI tuner knowledge. There is certainly a learning curve with EFI and each brand of units. I might try the Pro-Flo if the Fitech fails ,but right now it's satisfactory.
Put a Fitech on my 4.2 ltr Holden V8 and in my opinion was a huge expensive time waster, I pulled it and sold it on Ebay, then bought and put a Quick Fuel 450 4 barrel on with the standard engine mounted fuel pump and voila! It starts cold on the electric choke warms up and drives good with good fuel economy, I was going to put fuel Injection on the Sons 383 69 Vette, but put a custom AED 750 Holley on and am amazed at how good it runs and more amazed at how fuel efficient it is, I agree with you on that the Fuel Injection will pick up any problem you have with your engine, EG: vacuum and exhaust leaks, ignition problems, fuel system, electrical system and so on, for me the benefits with the fuel injection are too little unless I was turbocharging, but even then I see a lot of successful blow through systems now, In my opinion I will put a custom AED carby on and spend my money on a good ignition system which when done properly will give huge efficiency benefits. Just my 2 cents. Cheers Brian.
Great video, I've had Fitech on my 1972 Challenger for about 5 years. A friend and I did the install. So far it's worked fine for me. My biggest complaint is with the external fuel pump noise. I think I will go with an in-tank pump soon.
I had a Holley Terminator kit that sadly just wouldn't tune properly so I sold it. I put carb back on, then a month later I bought Fitech system. Wasn't going to buy their crap fuel delivery system, so I bought an intank Aeromotive 340 stealth pump, used my own Holley reg, and didn't use the kit for timing or fan control. It was purely just for processing the fuel. It has been running near perfect for 2 years on my Cleveland here in Australia. So much so, that I haven't needed the display hooked up for about a year and a half. Don't expect these systems to "self learn" without you doing the basic checks and fixes yourself.
Jon - truth! I put a FiTech on my ‘66 Bronco 3 years ago. You nailed it! My Bronco runs great...now, after an EFI fuel tank/pump, new primary fuel line, a return fuel line and plenty of header/exhaust work. The only thing I would add to your vid is this: sometimes I wish I could just drop the carb back on it to rule out an EFI issue, but not possible due to the high pressure fuel system.
You can just run a mechanical fuel pump with a gas can as a fuel tank to eliminate the whole fuel system. Take the fuse out or disconnect the power wire for the electric fuel pump Just a thought.
Couldn't agree more, my FiTech has never run right, and partly because if the unit but also it magnified other issues. I am putting a new 6A box and blaster coil on to hopefully solve rpm noise issues. If it doesn't fix it, I will get a new distributor, which will suck because I cannot see the timing mark. Timing it will be nearly impossible without taking it somewhere and spending a bunch of cash....great Video!!
Im also a weekend mechanic. I purchased the Holley Sniper complete electronic package including distributor. Essentially, everything is new including the 440 engine. Its difficult to tell how good or bad the engine is running since I really dont have a baseline. I did have a problem with plug wires. I actually purchased 4 different sets of wires before I resolved the problem. The engine runs smooth but, I cant tell if im getting all of the power out of it. It has under 300 miles on it now. Im not sure what EFI parameters I should change. Its a little difficult to know what the EFI is doing especially with timing. But, I think its going to be a good system. You can see my videos at the CAMPBASE page.
Right now I have an engine on my dyno(408 Cleveland with a stock intake an a Pantera exhaust system) with the Holley Sniper system. I've run it using a carburetor and it made 485 horsepower and 485lbs/ft torque. Now it has the Sniper self learning system installed. I've run it for a while to allow it to tune itself and so far it seems to run pretty smooth. The only problem was that when it would idle after a while the computer would seem to reboot. It would speed up and run really rough for a while. I think it might have been because I had a bunch of the unused wires running close to my plug wires. I've moved them so hopefully that'll fix the problem. The plan is to run it some more and then do a few pulls at wide open throttle to see how it runs.
Will check out your videos, thanks! Throttle range and air flow are the limiting factors. Big mopar engines like big air flow and most of the EFI kits don’t match the 850 cfm Thermoquad. You might also look at the cam difference between the carb and EFI, maybe a cam change would help.
find a reputable tuner. which is a lot easier said than done. all your power is in the timing map, of course thats where the risk lives as well. you are better off not touching things you don't understand to be honest. You can get the calibration ALL fucked up. Find a good tuner you can trust. They will make a baseline pull, you'll know the power it makes. after the tune up you'll see if it gained or lost any power. drivability should be greatly improved..... if the tuner is worth a damn. have fun.
Diesel Ramcharger I have one lined up but I have to do A, B, and C before I get there. Im thinking you are right. I could cause a serious engine problem If I don't configure this right. I have heard some engine pinging and it concerns me.
I kind of Did, by LS swapping. It started great, had twice the power as tired old 305 but it was 3 months work[20 hrs aweek ] making everything fit and not cheap. by time i was done $500 cdn engine was about 3000 cdn installed and running and doin all /most the work myself.
I got the FiTech HP400.. First one broken out of the box.. Took 7 weeks to get a replacement.. The FiTech fuel pump is junk.. Fit a Bosch 044 and Teflon fuel lines.. Apart from the touch screen with its horrible plugs.. The system is pretty good.. Just tech support is dire
I put the mopar fuel injection kit on my 1988 yj wrangler and got rid of the 2 barrel factory carter. Way more power, cleaner install (got ride of dozens of leaking vacuume lines) but it was not easy. The new wiring loom ran 1 common ground for all the new sensors, and it didn't work well. I rewired the kit with individual grounds from each sensor to the battery, and it worked much better. Because this kit was so generic to fit some many different 4.2s, i would not recommend it for the average diyer. This kit is a good bolt on kit if you have some knowledge. Been running flawlessly for 200k now.
go with all MSD products and install an good ground from the engine block to the body of the car. Make sure the cable is a thick battery cable so it can carry all the current. My car had a miss fire and I brought all new parts, coil pack, moduel, spark plug leads, spark plugs and new battery and it was still missfiring so it was just a bad ground at the end of the day. So I took off all factory grounds in the engine bay and install 1 big thick battery terminal cable straight from the engine block to body and negative terminal to the ground point too with another thick battery cable and the car runs fantastic.
I have a 1975 chevy k20. I got a edelbrock pro flo 4 xt with the edelbrock fuel sump. What I learned. it does not come with everything you need. Your gonna need fuel lines a return line, a plug for the extra water temp sensor and that I should of gotten a full exhaust upgrade. Also should of gotten a in tank fuel pump will prob get the in tank fuel pump and exhaust system done this year if I dont sell the truck
I have a ProFlo 4 on my Chevy truck making about 400HP. I also have a Sniper on my 1979 International Scout II with the 345ci engine. Both work well for me but there are two things I have to point out. Both systems are lacking a knock sensor input. The only EFI system I know that has a knock sensor is the Hamilton EFI, but I have never used that one. The Holy Sniper has a trigger wire for the A/C that the ProFlo 4 does not. Other than that, both systems have worked very well for me and I have been equally happy with both. Both systems are about 2 years old now and working well.
yes I watched all your videos! they were Great! I made the mistake of buying a FI-TECH! Junk!! Had to take it off and put a new carb back on! What a waste off money.
On a ford 5.0 EFI. the AFR is measured in the manifold. Which make the O2 sensor able to be removed. In fact...you can scrap the whole EGR System. Plug the EGR tube orifice at the head with pipe plugs. and eliminate all of the power robbing components completely.
I have on my Brazilian Ford Galaxie 75 an MSD ATOMIC EFI, still have backfiring problem only on decel, i change some settings and the "problem" almost solved but the car runs extremally better with EFI.
@@Turbochapman agree. Pressure regulator would get it done, but to do it right, it can cost 200 bucks or more from what I understand (never dun it). I may need to hit that option though if I can't get the fitech to behave. Any specific instructions on a regulator option just in case?
Nashville Early Bronco yeah I wasn’t knocking your decision to switch but unless you live in a place with crazy altitude changes while traveling from point A to B or very cold climate, the carburetor is a perfectly reliable and economical choice, and for all around performance, that model Edelbrock works great out of the box (about $340) for anything from a 302 to 460 that isn’t running a wild cam...
I under stand why people would like to update and do a efi conversion. I have done it but gone back to carbureted. It is old school, and is some thing I can mostly 95% of the time I can fix on the side of the road, or get it to limp along to get home. And not every one would use there classic for a daily driver. And if so does the $2500 to $3000. really make it worth it for the headaches and aggravation. Just to gain a bit more fuel mileage and a tad bit more throttle response. I do support if you want to change over to EFI but always consider the caust , the cause, and effect.
I had a 74 bronco with the Edelbrock performer Cam and intake and a small Holley floor barrel this was back in the '90s before aftermarket fuel injection. I'm thinking about either getting an old bronco or a trans am either way I'm thinking I want fuel injection. I would definitely go the package way fuel injection ignition intake manifold the whole matched package I believe in that. I would probably also put it on a freshly built engine new exhaust everything. But maybe not depending on what I end up buying. You had a lot of good info can't disagree that's for sure. I definitely see the benefit and fuel injection over a carburetor but it may not be as plug and Play easy as they advertise. I appreciate you pointing out these problems. Thank you
I am also a weekend mechanic hobbyists with a 1977 CJ5 304 v8 manual that I've installed the MSD Atomic EFI , MSD Distributor, MSD wires, MSD plugs, MSD 6al EFI ignition module and it's actually really great on cold starts, off camber inclines and declines where the carb can be a nightmare. However, for my application, there's a big undesired trade off hindering maximum performance. AFR readings go super rich off idle causing a hesitation or stumble that I've been unable to resolve within the ECU tuning capabilities. I've adjusted electronic timing, pump squirt and power enrichment percentages and AFR's on the handheld until my thumbs are calloused and nothing cleans up the hesitation. I've put at least 1,500 miles on it And the "self learning" feature is NON existent from all I've gathered. I'm about to do an LS SWAP, have it tuned and be done. Not yet convinced it was worth the time and $ and can't fully recommend the conversion. Appreciate your channel as I came across it living here in Nashville and looking up my next adventure. Best of luck to all! GT
Regardless as to which EFI you install, the key is to stick with basics installation fundamentals, which includes a fuel return line and a a quality fuel pressure regulator. Cool, properly regulated fuel is essential. If your plumbing is installed properly, vapor lock and hot starts will be a thing of the past. It’s also critical to keep all of the electrical components as cool and dry as possible. With a doubt, mount the ECU on the cold side of the firewall. Common sense measures go a long way with insuring the your EFI works well.
I don’t have fuel injection yet if I do the high pressure sump pump is sound in theory. You will not use more fuel than your mechanical pump can produce. The sump pump increases pressure to the injectors so the can operate properly to atomize the fuel properly that’s it . If you’re going through more fuel then with the mechanical and carb then you have issues. Just because you have pressure it does not meet you need more volume.
Nashville Early Bronco that’s why you have the sump pump the low pressure pump ( mechanical pump ) provides the “volume “ the fuel required into the sump the the high pressure pump (pump in the sump) pressurizes it . ( Diesels actually used this system somewhat they have a mechanical high pressure pump and a electric or mechanical lift pump )There’s videos of people using it and it works really well except in cold weather they can freeze. Your just wrong when you say you’re going to run out of fuel when u use this system. If you run out fuel with this system you woul run out when it’s carbed . In fact it this system used more fuel it wouldn’t be very efficient.Just think of the sump pump as a mini fuel tank and the mechanical pump running off the engine as a transfer pump . That’s all it is .
most people going with the fitech or ez efi or sniper already have a carbed 4bbl intake and won’t need to buy another. I personally have friends who have fitech on a lq9 and a 383sbc and there getting rid of there carb stuff because they work very well.
While I am totally supportive of the idea of “my car, my choice”, I personally like 40 plus year old cars because they are mechanically simple and easier to live with/diagnose/repair. I have heard the debate for nearly 35 years that a restored antique car is just as good as a brand new car ... I have never bought into that idea. To me, owning a antique to classic car is taking the good with the bad so the trade off for a simple carburetor and points distributor is that they may not be as smooth and dependable in every situation as new fuel injected car with a computer controlled ignition that works in conjunction with all the systems in the car and is able to adjust itself to correct for outside condition (from fuel/air trim to even elevation changes) automatically. Again, I understand and I’m ok with that. Fortunately, the age threshold of antique cars is now “new” enough to include cars that were factory made with fuel injection and electronic ignition system. There is also the ability to adapt modern engine/transmissions into older cars, complete with the computer management systems that controlled them, if you so desire ... which, in the long run, might be a better solution than an add on FI system. Again, I completely support anyone’s decision to modify yesterday’s cars with today’s technology if they so wish but, for my own needs and use, the original equipment on my 55 year old car largely suits my needs very well.
Hi Great Vid, I just want to say this about that. The fuel canister with a high pressure pump inside is not a bad idea.on a lot of vehicles this is the best way to go. The mechanical fuel pump puts out more than enough volume to keep up. Remember the object is to use less fuel.IMO LOL anyway great vid Keep em coming.
The biggest thing learned was i bought an engine that's with an EFI engine. Might not be Ford yet i did my research to find that it's a quit reliable engine yet it also can come with a kick in the ball's price tag as well if not carful. the price tag for mine is the cost of the starter, Alternate, Trans, Trans cooler, Engine wire harness, as well as a stand along or plug and play ECU to make it run then last is the exhaust. Led me be clear Chevy is great yet if you wish to dress up any early EFI V8 your looking at a ball park of $600. alone for just some beutiful valve cover's nothing else only valve covers.
What engine are you working on that the valve covers are that pricey? A set of center bolt valve covers for an SBC shouldn't cost more then a $100 for a really nice set.
also remember you should install a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel line cooler.. vapor lock does occur in fuel injectors and a locked injector is a nightmare to troubleshoot.
I put the Fitech 600hp on my 455 Oldsmobile. When I hit the gas pedal it falls on its face then pops. When I slowly accelerate, it dose fine. I have the electric fuel pump in the gas tank.
Great information!! Not one person realizes how much extra cost there is. On a Racing parts website this video should come up in the search instead of efi units. !
These plug and play kits are a lie. Sniper kit ~ 1000$ okay cool! This should be everything right?! Hyper spark kit ~ 800$ well my distributor was old anyways. Gas tank + built in pump ~ 600$ well my old tank was rusty and it’s easier than trying to retrofit. Special flare tool for efi lines ~ 200$ New stainless line + fittings ~ 250$ might as well some lines were probably 50years old. 150 amp alternator ~ 125$ nobody warned me the OE 60 amp unit wasn’t sufficient. Higher amp battery 150$ ~ because the old battery was finicky powering the pump + injectors and computer. 100 micron filter ~ 100$ well the 60 micron filter I had on the bench wasn’t recommended. But hey, at least I get 10mpg instead of 8 and slightly better throttle response now 😂 and if I have a dying urge to drive in below freezing temps I can generally fire up on the 2nd turn of the key!
what i have learned with efi system tbi versus manifold efi. for performance options the manifold efi such as edelbrock proflo works the best however..the sustainability of these products should always be considered..ie map sensors. o2 sensors and other sensors be advised most of these systems will not maintain sutainability past 5 years that means you will hunt for parts. one other point is these do not always work better then a carburetor in most situations. and they are high dollar range. from the block off plate to the fuel pump and fuel line upgrades. to the fitment challenges you have had. and year round sustainability for everyday use. you should post this...everyone who is doing a youtube video on efi does not say what the manufacture end of life is on these parts..and how you get replacement parts. much like when people upgrade the vehicle to wilwood or baer brakes..you cant walk into any parts store and get those brake pads they are special order.
That’s a big reason i won’t go efi. I just use a carb with a wideband gauge. I like the simplicity and the fact that I can walk into any parts store and get a rebuild kit and rebuild the carb right there should I need to
One of my customers has the Edelbrock Pro Flo 2 system on a 440 Chrysler in a '63 Dodge wagon. I built the engine and set up the EFI system on the dyno for him about 13 years ago. It has run well and given good fuel economy and drivabilty but he's had trouble with the system's Mallory distributor. It has been the weak link. It has never caused it to quit all together but it has caused it to run bad at least three times. This wasn't too big of a problem when Mallory was still around but now they are gone. Fortunately there is some guy who repairs the distributors otherwise the system would be junk.
@@nickgrillo4830 agreed. from a custom distributor to other pats..it becomes a challenge and you can wait weeks to get a part.i run a carb as well. with a pressure regulator and custom jetting. i am also going to reinstall my fuel cooler. to prevent vapor lock. i have even seem problems with electronic ignition systems and electric fuel pumps. it becomes problematic. i have found for troubleshooting. mechanical fuel pump and carburetor becomes the easiest. in fact fast efi had a recall on their throttle body for the map sensor port.
Ok, so after venting at length a couple days ago, I decide I'd give TUNING it one more shot... in doing so, I ran across the "Default Settings" option and thought what the heck... why not..can't hurt... made the selection and it is running like a dream... no hesitation whatsoever.. I'm glad to know my ~$2k investment was now worth it... lesson I learned is " just because I think I know how to tune better or beyond MSD's tuning with a custom tune doesn't mean I do know" !! This was a duhhh moment for me but, you don't know what you don't know. Would love to wheel with y'all sometime... I have a jeep but I'd dig running with broncos.. a jeep is just more affordable for me... I don't think I'd have regained interest if I hadn't ran across your channel so thanks for the helping hand lend GT
🙌🏼🙌🏼 that’s awesome! Way to go. I know, I try and out think myself all the time but when the solution is easy and right in front of me. Glad you got it going, let’s go wheel!
I was hoping for a little more. For people looking into these you can have o2 sensor bung installed on your exhaust system. They'll need to be welded on.
Once you go EFI, now you realize how sloppy a carb can be. Now your addicted ! My 1975 460 F250 runs WAY better ! In every aspect ! Torque, HP, WOT, Better Idle,Throttle response, Cold start, AND I'm getting about 50 more miles out of a fill up. (Aprox 30 gals of fuel). The down side ,I have had 2 different injector failures ! (which they replaced) So before I bolt my Sniper back on ,I will be upgrading my alt to a 140 amp system. And battery for really cold starts. Hopefully that will take care of the problem.
Robert Stewart I’ve had hood results with the TuffStuff brand alternator on my sniper. What filter are you running? I believe it calls for a 60 micron minimum but I went with a 100 micron filter
@@imawesomekbye So far so good with the new 140 amp alt. My 460 is back to it's really perky self with the Sniper reinstalled. It's actually a challenge to drive and NOT accidentally break both tires loose ! I've got a hi flow K&N in my cold air package that seals to the hood scoop.
Good stuff as usual. I remember sending you pics of my FiTech on my 76. Just bought a 68 and debating whether to go with EFI again or just leave it carb'd. Everything you mentioned I had to do to get the Fitech installed propertly, high pressure electric fuel pump, new lines, O2 sensor bong install, and some new wiring. It added up quickly. I kind of don't want to go down that road again.
Ah the good ole O2 sensor bong, must have clean water and a fresh bowl for it to hit just right. Don't forget about your O2 sensor bong guys! It's very important.
Great video! I have a Holley Sniper. Great product customer service great too. The issue I experienced was the coolant sensor. Holley sent me one as I had no signal. It still did not work. It seems to be an issue with other people as well. I ordered a Standard coolant sensor and now it works as it should. Also I agree the exhaust system is important. I am running open headers and the afr is all over. That is being corrected this Wednesday. It does point out issues and you will need to correct them. Would I do it again? Yes. Btw I have a mustang with a 302 and a 5 speed tremec.
Bought the fi tech it was junk ran great in the beginning but had issues later not idle right or idle high plus bought fuel command and fuel command sometimes would stop working hard starting was junk I went back to carb and now runs great fi tech was such a pos. My opinion
#1- GROUND CIRCUIT MUST BE PERFECT #2- block ALL "stove passages" in stock intakes #3- O² goes on main exhaust path... NOT header/manifold primary #4- fuel system filters... suck through steel (primary) push through paper (secondary)
Have watched you struggle for a while, These systems have a fatal flaw which is all the electronics are mounted on top of the manifold. Heat rises! Electronics don't do well when heated! I use a Howell Engineering tbi unit on my 69 U14 with a 351W and all the electronics are mounted remotely AWAY FROM HEAT. All I've ever done is replaced a bad O2 sensor ($24.00) using an OBD 1 analyzer . These are simple and work very well and I plan to use another of these on my 75 U15 also with a 351W. They are based on a 1998 GM tbi . I don't usually like GM stuff, but in this case this is an older system which has had all the initial bugs worked out, while the other systems are still struggling to re invent the wheel
This is why I absolutely advocate against deadheading these EFI units. At least with a return line, there is some level of flow through cooling effect. Secondly, a phenolic spacer and a heat shield is highly recommended. My sniper unit generally stays fairly cool under normal driving with these added steps.
My opinion is that I would not waste my money on a TBI system. TBI = stay carb, MPFI above all. Just my 2 cents. You do some great vids man, I'm currently running a Fitech MPFI system twin turbo and got it running pretty well until my car got totaled. I do however wish I would have saved and bought a Holley or Edelbrock though. I am not a fan of having the ECU in the throttle body and I don't mind doing a bit of extra wiring for a cleaner look. Also the Fitech seems to have an issue with "noise" in the electrical system and the way they want you to install the dizzy is a bit confusing and frustrating.
I disagree wholeheartedly. TBI is great for those who want to keep their square flange manifold and carb appearance, but want the increased driveability of EFI.
@rkstingray - I'm sure you would do that... and you're entitled to your opinion.... but a "well tuned carb" isn't a viable option for most drivers/owners, especially when traveling through elevation changes. Not everyone has the skill, or the will, to stop every 1,000ft of elevation and swap jets. A lot of people want the appearance of a carb, with EFI convenience... and you simply can't get that with port fuel injection.
I live in Portland, just north of Nashville. I seriously plan to go EFI on my 360 FE motor. I bought a 1973 Ford 250. I could definitely use your help. Lessons learned can be lessons taught. I would like to learn from your lessons learned. To be clear, I do not have any plans to replace the motor. So I would like to discuss with you further, what to expect. Thanks for your help.
I've had an EFI on my 92 K1500 since the day I bought it, and it is f'n garbage. The module goes out ALL THE TIME, and it costs $60 to replace it every time. You'll be extremely lucky to get 1000 miles out of one. I'm currently looking to sell/trade my entire Edelbrock intake/tbi/distributor setup because i'm beyond tired of dealing with it
The EFI is awesome but for the cost I prefer more in high end muscle cars like Charger 426, Challenger, Camaro in which you can take them to an advanced injection workshop and pay the high price, since the car has a high price. For a low-priced car, the EFI seems excessive.
I’ve nothing but good things to say about the two MSD Atomic EFI kits I’ve installed. Heard nothing but horror stories about Fitech hence I went with MSD.
How about putting a 4.7 out a mustang, into a extra cab ford ranger, and I will reroute the mustang exhaust system for the truck, ya know it got to have that deep sound
I installed an Edelbrock E-Street setup on my 70 vette.. Newly rebuilt with new exhaust.... It would not run past 4500rpm and that was the good part.. Starting was a bitch, cruising just did not happen very well... 3000rpm at 70 mph.. Acceleration was lots of missing.... I did the complete install 3 times and every time it was the same.. I sent the unit back to Edelbrock where they gladly updated the software.. Still the same or even worse...... I gave it away and I understand it has never run since.. I went back to the holly carb and it runs great, starts great turns 6000rpm+ and gets 17mpg cruising and 15 mpg in town... I guess if it works great but I have yet to actually see a person that did not have problems with whatever they installed....
I have installed three efi on three different cars in my collection, I hate carbs! EFI is so much more drivable, but I have never and will not buy or install a Fitech! They are total garbage!
I added efi to a 1966 cutlass using all GM parts no aftermarket stuff you have to remember GM efi cars came with a long warrant and have millions miles proof. aftermarket kits are for the track only
I'm interested in MPG gains. 67 Chevy, 2wd, 350, 4 speed is only getting 12.5 MPG. Starts instantly, dosen''t smell strongly of gas, Headers, full exhaust, Edelbrock intake and 1405 carb, tuned pretty well, new distributor. Besides an EFI system (I already drive like grandpa) and a T56... I don't see how to get better MPG.
Great video, but I do have to disagree with you on not using anything but an in tank high pressure pump. I had a Holley sniper, just bricked the ECU & bought the Pro-Flo 4. On a sbc 423 hp(dyno) the only thing that i have not had a issue with is the Robbmc surge tank fed with the mechanical fuel pump. I don't know the actual volume the (mechanical) pump puts out & have not held it at full throttle longer than 1/4 mile & with that, have never starved the EFI for fuel. I can't speak for any other surge tanks out there and especially the ones that do not return fuel to the tank, but the Robbmc unit has been turn key & trouble free.
I was thinking about getting one of these for my Dodge but now I'm rethinking everything I think it would be really a lot cheaper going with a 5.3 from a Chevy junkyard here I come
got the fitech 30005 and when initial frist start up i got it to run but for some reason i can not turn it off with my key i had to disconect the plug from my distributor..i have my white wire going to my fuse box to ignition fuse and my blue wire going to my green wire from my distributor which is my tach wire... i have a hei dis. and 355 small block 1990 k5 blazer...it wont shut down with the key off...
So, basically, there are no short-cuts- things need to be right in either system. One system is far more tolerant of mis-adjustment or deficiencies, the other is not. Regarding a “fuel sump”, presumably a small header near the throttle body for a reserve of fuel nearer to the engine?
I went with a Edelbrock avs2 650 cfm on 68 lincoln continental 460. Love it works perfect .Thought about EFI. seems like it needs a lot tweeking to get to run.2 adjustment on the carb and runs great.
I’ve got 5 Edelbrock carbs and I absolutely love them but I’ve never had a AVS Edelbrock. In your opinion do you like them better than the original Edelbrocks and if so what are the advantages of the AVS carbs?
I agree with most people on here. Running FItech for a year now, and it is junk, nobody can tune them, they self program? Nope, they are dangerous. Anybody want to buy mine? Lol Back to carb for me.
I’m 32 and been hot rodding and swapping ls motors since I was 19.So unfortunately can’t say I’ve had any of those ah ha moments doing the swaps. I have had many tuning OEM controllers though
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Dude, this 3yr old vid is still doing God's work, lol. Right in the middle of building a 390 for my 74 Highboy and long story short, I was just getting ready to go the EFI route when I came across your vid. I'm always seeking the opposite opinion to whatever I want so I can get a true picture instead of just pie-eyes and this vid did that for me, so thank you!
PS; think I'm going the old-fashion carb route 😅
Follow the directions, make sure you have good grounds and a good constant power. Put an FiTech EFI in my 64 Comet years ago and best thing I have ever done to it. Good clean wiring is your friend.
Just recently put a Fi Tech system on my '79 International Scout that I had been running a Carter AFB carb on since the '90s. I am so glad I did it so far and love what the EFI has done for my classic ride!
Thanks for making this video and pointing out the subtle things that most people (me included) tend to forget about that are needed to make an EFI work correctly. You're right, it's not just the cost of the unit itself.
Instablaster
I put a FiTech 400 HP base unit on a 1979 CJ7 with a mild built AMC 360. - Learning 1) Fuel command unit sucks! Boils fuel and will leave you stranded on the road. I fought this issue for about a year. Absolutely must open the fuel command remove the float and make the vent line a return line to the tank so it is circulating the fuel. 2) Voltage- old wires and modern technology don't mix 3) I was hoping the stinky exhaust smell I had with the carb would be eliminated or reduced with the EFI...Nope still smells terrible. 4) Fuel economy a plus with EFI! 5) Throttle response and cold/warm starts awesome compared to carb 5) Loss of that reliability feeling with EFI. When it stops working...kind of done versus the carb it never left me stranded.
To add to my thread I used the Holley/Summit kit Summit CD box for ignition and the Holley distributor for ignition control.
I’m running a Holley sniper efi with a summit racing blueprint HEI distributor and MSD wires. I did buy the master kit, so it included everything, but it runs amazing. I also upgraded the alternator to a Tuff Stuff 120amp to help give clean more steady power. Seems to all work together great!
What kind of car??
@@smoothoperator7023 it’s a 79’ f250 with a 400
i did an atomic efi on my 67 impala and the only extra thing i had to buy was the return kit.. it came with the new fuel pump filters, everything… i did upgrade the whole ignition system with all msd components while i was in there… love it, will never run a carb ever again…!!! woke up my little 283…
Took years to get my haltech e8 running good in my 1987 rx7. My car came EFI but I originally thought a standalone would solve all the problems. Now I preach to only install ems on cars that run great haha. Thanks!
Haha!
Good advice Nash, I installed the Fitech, I was an early adopter. I tried their “command center” thinking it would simplify my installation since I have dual tanks on my 1971 Bronco. I’ve since gone to frame mounted pumps with returns, then that progressed to in tank fuel pumps.. I probably have had every issue you touched on, spark plug wires arching, command center overheating and killing fuel pumps, wiring harness melted at an early style harness. Now I’m 5 plus years forward running two separate in tank pumps, using a relay triggered by my fuel pump wire to take the load off of the Fitech ECU.. I’m happy with the overall performance vs a carburetor.. no hot start issues and cranks up like a champ.
Wow! That has been a lot of issues. Glad it’s working now 👍🏼
@@NashvilleEarlyBronco it’s been a process, but one mostly everything was not related to the throttle body itself. So ignition issues and fuel delivery issues, and me not knowing what I’m doing and learning as I go.. lately I wonder about fitech’s quality, I see quite a few ecu failure complaints on the fitech forum pages.. but overall I’m satisfied.. I’m about to install a sniper setup on a friends 74 Bronco.. I’m going to use all of my lessons learned installing mine to hopefully make this go super smooth.. !!! Love your channel by the way!!
Thanks man! Good luck with the sniper
I’ve got the Holley sniper system on my 302 and I absolutely love it. I made it easy and also purchased the entire Hyperspark ignition system by Holley. Everything was plug and play. Best part about it is SummitRacings and Holleys knowledge you can draw from. Great product!
That’s awesome!
Same here, sniper efi, distributor, coil, cdi and Holley in tank fuel pump on a 347. Truck runs better than ever
Will you post a link to the kit you bought? My dad and I have a 69 bronco with a 302 and have been looking at aftermarket bolt on efi for it.
I have the Sniper on my SBC350. The support from Holly has been amazing. Just wanted to mention that.
The Holley one is absolutely junk…..burning up ecu’s right n left…..no thanks
all the problems with carbs can be solved at home without any phone calls and new motherboards waiting to arrive. Glad I learned how to make carbs happy I keep airboats running andwith all theother issues we have a carb is never the problem even though it is blamed alot.
I'm running a Fitech 600 blowthrough turbo on my "66". Mostly happy with it with the exception of a lean tip-in after a deceleration moment that I can't seem to tune out. Also doesn't seem to be as responsive off idle as a carb. I have learned a lot with tuning Fitech but still I'd like to get that dialed in 100% I'm sure these problems can be addressed with professional EFI tuner knowledge. There is certainly a learning curve with EFI and each brand of units. I might try the Pro-Flo if the Fitech fails ,but right now it's satisfactory.
Nice! Yeah sometimes I wish I had a degree in EFI 😂
Put a Fitech on my 4.2 ltr Holden V8 and in my opinion was a huge expensive time waster, I pulled it and sold it on Ebay, then bought and put a Quick Fuel 450 4 barrel on with the standard engine mounted fuel pump and voila! It starts cold on the electric choke warms up and drives good with good fuel economy, I was going to put fuel Injection on the Sons 383 69 Vette, but put a custom AED 750 Holley on and am amazed at how good it runs and more amazed at how fuel efficient it is, I agree with you on that the Fuel Injection will pick up any problem you have with your engine, EG: vacuum and exhaust leaks, ignition problems, fuel system, electrical system and so on, for me the benefits with the fuel injection are too little unless I was turbocharging, but even then I see a lot of successful blow through systems now, In my opinion I will put a custom AED carby on and spend my money on a good ignition system which when done properly will give huge efficiency benefits. Just my 2 cents. Cheers Brian.
Good insight 👍🏼
Great video, I've had Fitech on my 1972 Challenger for about 5 years. A friend and I did the install. So far it's worked fine for me. My biggest complaint is with the external fuel pump noise. I think I will go with an in-tank pump soon.
Yeah that is a noisy pump
I went for the internal pump. No regrets
I had a Holley Terminator kit that sadly just wouldn't tune properly so I sold it. I put carb back on, then a month later I bought Fitech system. Wasn't going to buy their crap fuel delivery system, so I bought an intank Aeromotive 340 stealth pump, used my own Holley reg, and didn't use the kit for timing or fan control. It was purely just for processing the fuel. It has been running near perfect for 2 years on my Cleveland here in Australia. So much so, that I haven't needed the display hooked up for about a year and a half. Don't expect these systems to "self learn" without you doing the basic checks and fixes yourself.
Nice! Glad you found something that worked
Jon - truth! I put a FiTech on my ‘66 Bronco 3 years ago. You nailed it! My Bronco runs great...now, after an EFI fuel tank/pump, new primary fuel line, a return fuel line and plenty of header/exhaust work.
The only thing I would add to your vid is this: sometimes I wish I could just drop the carb back on it to rule out an EFI issue, but not possible due to the high pressure fuel system.
You can just run a mechanical fuel pump with a gas can as a fuel tank to eliminate the whole fuel system. Take the fuse out or disconnect the power wire for the electric fuel pump Just a thought.
Working on installing a Holley Sniper TBI on my Pinzgauer 712M air-cooled engine.
I just put Holley sniper efi on my ‘68 Mustang. No complaints, but it did cost around $1500 total. I’d do it again if I had a chance.
Same with my 66 mustang all I needed was extra fuel line but plan on getting dei heat sleeves for fuel line
How big is the different on the consumption approximatly?
Couldn't agree more, my FiTech has never run right, and partly because if the unit but also it magnified other issues. I am putting a new 6A box and blaster coil on to hopefully solve rpm noise issues. If it doesn't fix it, I will get a new distributor, which will suck because I cannot see the timing mark. Timing it will be nearly impossible without taking it somewhere and spending a bunch of cash....great Video!!
Thanks man! Hope you get it figured out!
Wish I could post pics back, I just got the dash back and am re-assembling this weekend (if I can remember), haha
Im also a weekend mechanic. I purchased the Holley Sniper complete electronic package including distributor. Essentially, everything is new including the 440 engine. Its difficult to tell how good or bad the engine is running since I really dont have a baseline. I did have a problem with plug wires. I actually purchased 4 different sets of wires before I resolved the problem. The engine runs smooth but, I cant tell if im getting all of the power out of it. It has under 300 miles on it now. Im not sure what EFI parameters I should change. Its a little difficult to know what the EFI is doing especially with timing. But, I think its going to be a good system. You can see my videos at the CAMPBASE page.
Awesome! Yeah it’s hard to tell how it drives on a new engine
Right now I have an engine on my dyno(408 Cleveland with a stock intake an a Pantera exhaust system) with the Holley Sniper system. I've run it using a carburetor and it made 485 horsepower and 485lbs/ft torque. Now it has the Sniper self learning system installed. I've run it for a while to allow it to tune itself and so far it seems to run pretty smooth. The only problem was that when it would idle after a while the computer would seem to reboot. It would speed up and run really rough for a while. I think it might have been because I had a bunch of the unused wires running close to my plug wires. I've moved them so hopefully that'll fix the problem. The plan is to run it some more and then do a few pulls at wide open throttle to see how it runs.
Will check out your videos, thanks! Throttle range and air flow are the limiting factors. Big mopar engines like big air flow and most of the EFI kits don’t match the 850 cfm Thermoquad. You might also look at the cam difference between the carb and EFI, maybe a cam change would help.
find a reputable tuner. which is a lot easier said than done. all your power is in the timing map, of course thats where the risk lives as well. you are better off not touching things you don't understand to be honest. You can get the calibration ALL fucked up. Find a good tuner you can trust. They will make a baseline pull, you'll know the power it makes. after the tune up you'll see if it gained or lost any power. drivability should be greatly improved..... if the tuner is worth a damn. have fun.
Diesel Ramcharger I have one lined up but I have to do A, B, and C before I get there. Im thinking you are right. I could cause a serious engine problem If I don't configure this right. I have heard some engine pinging and it concerns me.
I kind of Did, by LS swapping. It started great, had twice the power as tired old 305 but it was 3 months work[20 hrs aweek ] making everything fit and not cheap. by time i was done $500 cdn engine was about 3000 cdn installed and running and doin all /most the work myself.
I got the FiTech HP400.. First one broken out of the box.. Took 7 weeks to get a replacement.. The FiTech fuel pump is junk.. Fit a Bosch 044 and Teflon fuel lines.. Apart from the touch screen with its horrible plugs.. The system is pretty good.. Just tech support is dire
That's why I got the sniper efi I got master kit all I needed was extra 10ft of fuel line for return but easy install was done in like 3hours
I put the mopar fuel injection kit on my 1988 yj wrangler and got rid of the 2 barrel factory carter. Way more power, cleaner install (got ride of dozens of leaking vacuume lines) but it was not easy. The new wiring loom ran 1 common ground for all the new sensors, and it didn't work well. I rewired the kit with individual grounds from each sensor to the battery, and it worked much better. Because this kit was so generic to fit some many different 4.2s, i would not recommend it for the average diyer. This kit is a good bolt on kit if you have some knowledge. Been running flawlessly for 200k now.
go with all MSD products and install an good ground from the engine block to the body of the car. Make sure the cable is a thick battery cable so it can carry all the current. My car had a miss fire and I brought all new parts, coil pack, moduel, spark plug leads, spark plugs and new battery and it was still missfiring so it was just a bad ground at the end of the day. So I took off all factory grounds in the engine bay and install 1 big thick battery terminal cable straight from the engine block to body and negative terminal to the ground point too with another thick battery cable and the car runs fantastic.
I have a 1975 chevy k20. I got a edelbrock pro flo 4 xt with the edelbrock fuel sump. What I learned. it does not come with everything you need. Your gonna need fuel lines a return line, a plug for the extra water temp sensor and that I should of gotten a full exhaust upgrade. Also should of gotten a in tank fuel pump will prob get the in tank fuel pump and exhaust system done this year if I dont sell the truck
The edelbrock sump works just fine, I'm using it with my atomic efi and no issues. Beats running the return line.
I have a ProFlo 4 on my Chevy truck making about 400HP. I also have a Sniper on my 1979 International Scout II with the 345ci engine. Both work well for me but there are two things I have to point out. Both systems are lacking a knock sensor input. The only EFI system I know that has a knock sensor is the Hamilton EFI, but I have never used that one. The Holy Sniper has a trigger wire for the A/C that the ProFlo 4 does not. Other than that, both systems have worked very well for me and I have been equally happy with both. Both systems are about 2 years old now and working well.
Nice! That’s a good point
yes I watched all your videos! they were Great! I made the mistake of buying a FI-TECH! Junk!! Had to take it off and put a new carb back on! What a waste off money.
Brutal!
On a ford 5.0 EFI. the AFR is measured in the manifold. Which make the O2 sensor able to be removed. In fact...you can scrap the whole EGR System. Plug the EGR tube orifice at the head with pipe plugs. and eliminate all of the power robbing components completely.
That’s awesome
I have on my Brazilian Ford Galaxie 75 an MSD ATOMIC EFI, still have backfiring problem only on decel, i change some settings and the "problem" almost solved but the car runs extremally better with EFI.
I leaned, from you, to leave my carb on.
Haha! Glad to help
Agree!!!! Once you get a new pump, you cannot go back to carb without messing with pressure and other stuff, which can be more $$.
@@jimpalmer4061 sure you can. Just add a regulator and you can still run a carb.
@@Turbochapman agree. Pressure regulator would get it done, but to do it right, it can cost 200 bucks or more from what I understand (never dun it). I may need to hit that option though if I can't get the fitech to behave. Any specific instructions on a regulator option just in case?
Edelbrock performer 600cfm manual choke 1405 carb, best all around choice...
I wish I would have got into carburetors before I switched to EFI
Not if you want EFI.
Nashville Early Bronco yeah I wasn’t knocking your decision to switch but unless you live in a place with crazy altitude changes while traveling from point A to B or very cold climate, the carburetor is a perfectly reliable and economical choice, and for all around performance, that model Edelbrock works great out of the box (about $340) for anything from a 302 to 460 that isn’t running a wild cam...
1406... Learn to tune it. I love mine, so easy to run and install.
Stan Moon yes!
I under stand why people would like to update and do a efi conversion. I have done it but gone back to carbureted. It is old school, and is some thing I can mostly 95% of the time I can fix on the side of the road, or get it to limp along to get home. And not every one would use there classic for a daily driver. And if so does the $2500 to $3000. really make it worth it for the headaches and aggravation. Just to gain a bit more fuel mileage and a tad bit more throttle response. I do support if you want to change over to EFI but always consider the caust , the cause, and effect.
I had a 74 bronco with the Edelbrock performer Cam and intake and a small Holley floor barrel this was back in the '90s before aftermarket fuel injection. I'm thinking about either getting an old bronco or a trans am either way I'm thinking I want fuel injection. I would definitely go the package way fuel injection ignition intake manifold the whole matched package I believe in that. I would probably also put it on a freshly built engine new exhaust everything. But maybe not depending on what I end up buying. You had a lot of good info can't disagree that's for sure. I definitely see the benefit and fuel injection over a carburetor but it may not be as plug and Play easy as they advertise. I appreciate you pointing out these problems. Thank you
Nice! You bet!
I am also a weekend mechanic hobbyists with a 1977 CJ5 304 v8 manual that I've installed the MSD Atomic EFI , MSD Distributor, MSD wires, MSD plugs, MSD 6al EFI ignition module and it's actually really great on cold starts, off camber inclines and declines where the carb can be a nightmare. However, for my application, there's a big undesired trade off hindering maximum performance. AFR readings go super rich off idle causing a hesitation or stumble that I've been unable to resolve within the ECU tuning capabilities. I've adjusted electronic timing, pump squirt and power enrichment percentages and AFR's on the handheld until my thumbs are calloused and nothing cleans up the hesitation. I've put at least 1,500 miles on it And the "self learning" feature is NON existent from all I've gathered. I'm about to do an LS SWAP, have it tuned and be done. Not yet convinced it was worth the time and $ and can't fully recommend the conversion. Appreciate your channel as I came across it living here in Nashville and looking up my next adventure. Best of luck to all!
GT
Bummer about the self learning. Happy to help
Regardless as to which EFI you install, the key is to stick with basics installation fundamentals, which includes a fuel return line and a a quality fuel pressure regulator. Cool, properly regulated fuel is essential. If your plumbing is installed properly, vapor lock and hot starts will be a thing of the past. It’s also critical to keep all of the electrical components as cool and dry as possible. With a doubt, mount the ECU on the cold side of the firewall. Common sense measures go a long way with insuring the your EFI works well.
Great wisdom here. Totally agree
FiTech has an internal pressure regulator
@@boharris8179 so does Sniper.
I don’t have fuel injection yet if I do the high pressure sump pump is sound in theory. You will not use more fuel than your mechanical pump can produce. The sump pump increases pressure to the injectors so the can operate properly to atomize the fuel properly that’s it . If you’re going through more fuel then with the mechanical and carb then you have issues. Just because you have pressure it does not meet you need more volume.
Fuel injection usually requires 40-50 psi, which is more than they mechanical pump can produce.
Nashville Early Bronco that’s why you have the sump pump the low pressure pump ( mechanical pump ) provides the “volume “ the fuel required into the sump the the high pressure pump (pump in the sump) pressurizes it . ( Diesels actually used this system somewhat they have a mechanical high pressure pump and a electric or mechanical lift pump )There’s videos of people using it and it works really well except in cold weather they can freeze. Your just wrong when you say you’re going to run out of fuel when u use this system. If you run out fuel with this system you woul run out when it’s carbed . In fact it this system used more fuel it wouldn’t be very efficient.Just think of the sump pump as a mini fuel tank and the mechanical pump running off the engine as a transfer pump . That’s all it is .
most people going with the fitech or ez efi or sniper already have a carbed 4bbl intake and won’t need to buy another. I personally have friends who have fitech on a lq9 and a 383sbc and there getting rid of there carb stuff because they work very well.
I used the Edelbrock slump kit with my ProFlo 4, im happy with it so far.but I did have to run a vent hose back to the fuel tank
That’s great!
As recommended per Edelbrock....
While I am totally supportive of the idea of “my car, my choice”, I personally like 40 plus year old cars because they are mechanically simple and easier to live with/diagnose/repair. I have heard the debate for nearly 35 years that a restored antique car is just as good as a brand new car ... I have never bought into that idea. To me, owning a antique to classic car is taking the good with the bad so the trade off for a simple carburetor and points distributor is that they may not be as smooth and dependable in every situation as new fuel injected car with a computer controlled ignition that works in conjunction with all the systems in the car and is able to adjust itself to correct for outside condition (from fuel/air trim to even elevation changes) automatically. Again, I understand and I’m ok with that. Fortunately, the age threshold of antique cars is now “new” enough to include cars that were factory made with fuel injection and electronic ignition system. There is also the ability to adapt modern engine/transmissions into older cars, complete with the computer management systems that controlled them, if you so desire ... which, in the long run, might be a better solution than an add on FI system. Again, I completely support anyone’s decision to modify yesterday’s cars with today’s technology if they so wish but, for my own needs and use, the original equipment on my 55 year old car largely suits my needs very well.
Well said Brian
That's funny, I just started my Fitech project today!
I have a 302 in my 56 Ford Fairlane.
Oh that’s awesome! Good luck!
Dont bother fitting the FiTech fuel pump.. Its junk.. Buy a Bosch 044 and fit Teflon fuel lines..
Hi Great Vid, I just want to say this about that.
The fuel canister with a high pressure pump inside is not a bad idea.on a lot of vehicles this is the best way to go.
The mechanical fuel pump puts out more than enough volume to keep up.
Remember the object is to use less fuel.IMO LOL anyway great vid Keep em coming.
True true. Good feedback
We are installing Holley Sniper on my 66 Charger (except for winter my daily driver).
I need the speed at my age, 78 years old.
The biggest thing learned was i bought an engine that's with an EFI engine. Might not be Ford yet i did my research to find that it's a quit reliable engine yet it also can come with a kick in the ball's price tag as well if not carful.
the price tag for mine is the cost of the starter, Alternate, Trans, Trans cooler, Engine wire harness, as well as a stand along or plug and play ECU to make it run then last is the exhaust.
Led me be clear Chevy is great yet if you wish to dress up any early EFI V8 your looking at a ball park of $600. alone for just some beutiful valve cover's nothing else only valve covers.
What engine are you working on that the valve covers are that pricey? A set of center bolt valve covers for an SBC shouldn't cost more then a $100 for a really nice set.
also remember you should install a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel line cooler..
vapor lock does occur in fuel injectors and a locked injector is a nightmare to troubleshoot.
Yep
Any links/pointers for a fuel line cooler?
I put the Fitech 600hp on my 455 Oldsmobile. When I hit the gas pedal it falls on its face then pops. When I slowly accelerate, it dose fine. I have the electric fuel pump in the gas tank.
lowriding1988 did you verify timing was correct? Is there leaks on the exhaust side. My issues was timing was off and had 2 exhaust leaks
This guy really reminds me of Mark from Car Audio Fabrication!
Great information!! Not one person realizes how much extra cost there is.
On a Racing parts website this video should come up in the search instead of efi units. !
Hahaha!
These plug and play kits are a lie.
Sniper kit ~ 1000$ okay cool! This should be everything right?!
Hyper spark kit ~ 800$ well my distributor was old anyways.
Gas tank + built in pump ~ 600$ well my old tank was rusty and it’s easier than trying to retrofit.
Special flare tool for efi lines ~ 200$
New stainless line + fittings ~ 250$ might as well some lines were probably 50years old.
150 amp alternator ~ 125$ nobody warned me the OE 60 amp unit wasn’t sufficient.
Higher amp battery 150$ ~ because the old battery was finicky powering the pump + injectors and computer.
100 micron filter ~ 100$ well the 60 micron filter I had on the bench wasn’t recommended.
But hey, at least I get 10mpg instead of 8 and slightly better throttle response now 😂 and if I have a dying urge to drive in below freezing temps I can generally fire up on the 2nd turn of the key!
what i have learned with efi system tbi versus manifold efi. for performance options the manifold efi such as edelbrock proflo works the best however..the sustainability of these products should always be considered..ie map sensors. o2 sensors and other sensors be advised most of these systems will not maintain sutainability past 5 years that means you will hunt for parts. one other point is these do not always work better then a carburetor in most situations. and they are high dollar range. from the block off plate to the fuel pump and fuel line upgrades. to the fitment challenges you have had. and year round sustainability for everyday use. you should post this...everyone who is doing a youtube video on efi does not say what the manufacture end of life is on these parts..and how you get replacement parts.
much like when people upgrade the vehicle to wilwood or baer brakes..you cant walk into any parts store and get those brake pads they are special order.
So true! Such a good point
That’s a big reason i won’t go efi. I just use a carb with a wideband gauge. I like the simplicity and the fact that I can walk into any parts store and get a rebuild kit and rebuild the carb right there should I need to
One of my customers has the Edelbrock Pro Flo 2 system on a 440 Chrysler in a '63 Dodge wagon. I built the engine and set up the EFI system on the dyno for him about 13 years ago. It has run well and given good fuel economy and drivabilty but he's had trouble with the system's Mallory distributor. It has been the weak link. It has never caused it to quit all together but it has caused it to run bad at least three times. This wasn't too big of a problem when Mallory was still around but now they are gone. Fortunately there is some guy who repairs the distributors otherwise the system would be junk.
@@nickgrillo4830 agreed. from a custom distributor to other pats..it becomes a challenge and you can wait weeks to get a part.i run a carb as well. with a pressure regulator and custom jetting. i am also going to reinstall my fuel cooler. to prevent vapor lock. i have even seem problems with electronic ignition systems and electric fuel pumps. it becomes problematic. i have found for troubleshooting. mechanical fuel pump and carburetor becomes the easiest. in fact fast efi had a recall on their throttle body for the map sensor port.
use ford eec-iv. problem solved
Ok, so after venting at length a couple days ago, I decide I'd give TUNING it one more shot... in doing so, I ran across the "Default Settings" option and thought what the heck... why not..can't hurt... made the selection and it is running like a dream... no hesitation whatsoever.. I'm glad to know my ~$2k investment was now worth it... lesson I learned is " just because I think I know how to tune better or beyond MSD's tuning with a custom tune doesn't mean I do know" !! This was a duhhh moment for me but, you don't know what you don't know. Would love to wheel with y'all sometime... I have a jeep but I'd dig running with broncos.. a jeep is just more affordable for me... I don't think I'd have regained interest if I hadn't ran across your channel so thanks for the helping hand lend
GT
🙌🏼🙌🏼 that’s awesome! Way to go. I know, I try and out think myself all the time but when the solution is easy and right in front of me. Glad you got it going, let’s go wheel!
We need a long term review now !
Thats what the ECU is for, the ultimate in tuning.
Great vid!!!! I’m so glad I found your vids
Thanks man!
You've been running the Pro-Flo 4 for a while now - what has been your experience so far? Highlights, lowlights?
I was hoping for a little more. For people looking into these you can have o2 sensor bung installed on your exhaust system. They'll need to be welded on.
Once you go EFI, now you realize how sloppy a carb can be. Now your addicted ! My 1975 460 F250 runs WAY better ! In every aspect ! Torque, HP, WOT, Better Idle,Throttle response, Cold start, AND I'm getting about 50 more miles out of a fill up. (Aprox 30 gals of fuel). The down side ,I have had 2 different injector failures ! (which they replaced) So before I bolt my Sniper back on ,I will be upgrading my alt to a 140 amp system. And battery for really cold starts. Hopefully that will take care of the problem.
Robert Stewart I’ve had hood results with the TuffStuff brand alternator on my sniper. What filter are you running? I believe it calls for a 60 micron minimum but I went with a 100 micron filter
@@imawesomekbye So far so good with the new 140 amp alt. My 460 is back to it's really perky self with the Sniper reinstalled. It's actually a challenge to drive and NOT accidentally break both tires loose ! I've got a hi flow K&N in my cold air package that seals to the hood scoop.
Took the Holley junk sniper out and put a Edelbrock Avs2 650cfm what a difference
Good stuff as usual. I remember sending you pics of my FiTech on my 76. Just bought a 68 and debating whether to go with EFI again or just leave it carb'd. Everything you mentioned I had to do to get the Fitech installed propertly, high pressure electric fuel pump, new lines, O2 sensor bong install, and some new wiring. It added up quickly. I kind of don't want to go down that road again.
That's awesome! Yeah, EFI isn't cheap.
Ah the good ole O2 sensor bong, must have clean water and a fresh bowl for it to hit just right.
Don't forget about your O2 sensor bong guys! It's very important.
I’m about to install the Fitech 600hp system and I also have the Fitech fuel command center which I hope goes well!
i'll keep my quadrajet on, for now!
Most Awesome! Good Info. Keep it coming! Mine is a 1974 Bronco.
Very helpful video. Think my 4 barrels will be fine now. Thanks much.
Great video! I have a Holley Sniper. Great product customer service great too. The issue I experienced was the coolant sensor. Holley sent me one as I had no signal. It still did not work. It seems to be an issue with other people as well. I ordered a Standard coolant sensor and now it works as it should. Also I agree the exhaust system is important. I am running open headers and the afr is all over. That is being corrected this Wednesday. It does point out issues and you will need to correct them. Would I do it again? Yes. Btw I have a mustang with a 302 and a 5 speed tremec.
Thats awesome
Bought the fi tech it was junk ran great in the beginning but had issues later not idle right or idle high plus bought fuel command and fuel command sometimes would stop working hard starting was junk I went back to carb and now runs great fi tech was such a pos. My opinion
Bummer man!
Yea all that money also called customer service they are worthless no help
Thanks for the info on this video , you just saved me some time and money .
Happy to help
All good points! Looks like my 70 camaro is gunna have a normal carb lol
hey my brother did anyone every tell you that you would be a excellent instructor...
Thank you
Stay away from Holley is what I learned
#1- GROUND CIRCUIT MUST BE PERFECT
#2- block ALL "stove passages" in stock intakes
#3- O² goes on main exhaust path... NOT header/manifold primary
#4- fuel system filters... suck through steel (primary) push through paper (secondary)
Have watched you struggle for a while, These systems have a fatal flaw which is all the electronics are mounted on top of the manifold. Heat rises! Electronics don't do well when heated! I use a Howell Engineering tbi unit on my 69 U14 with a 351W and all the electronics are mounted remotely AWAY FROM HEAT. All I've ever done is replaced a bad O2 sensor ($24.00) using an OBD 1 analyzer . These are simple and work very well and I plan to use another of these on my 75 U15 also with a 351W. They are based on a 1998 GM tbi . I don't usually like GM stuff, but in this case this is an older system which has had all the initial bugs worked out, while the other systems are still struggling to re invent the wheel
That’s awesome to hear! Totally agree about the heat
This is why I absolutely advocate against deadheading these EFI units. At least with a return line, there is some level of flow through cooling effect. Secondly, a phenolic spacer and a heat shield is highly recommended. My sniper unit generally stays fairly cool under normal driving with these added steps.
Ford sucks
Way to make a comment that has nothing to do with what we are talking about
My opinion is that I would not waste my money on a TBI system. TBI = stay carb, MPFI above all. Just my 2 cents. You do some great vids man, I'm currently running a Fitech MPFI system twin turbo and got it running pretty well until my car got totaled. I do however wish I would have saved and bought a Holley or Edelbrock though. I am not a fan of having the ECU in the throttle body and I don't mind doing a bit of extra wiring for a cleaner look. Also the Fitech seems to have an issue with "noise" in the electrical system and the way they want you to install the dizzy is a bit confusing and frustrating.
Yeah, the ECU has to stay out of the throttle body
I disagree wholeheartedly. TBI is great for those who want to keep their square flange manifold and carb appearance, but want the increased driveability of EFI.
@@driverjamescopeland a well tuned carb would be better cost for cost I would go multi-port over tbi
@rkstingray - I'm sure you would do that... and you're entitled to your opinion.... but a "well tuned carb" isn't a viable option for most drivers/owners, especially when traveling through elevation changes. Not everyone has the skill, or the will, to stop every 1,000ft of elevation and swap jets. A lot of people want the appearance of a carb, with EFI convenience... and you simply can't get that with port fuel injection.
I replace the spider valve efi on my 98' chev 5.0L it was a pain in the a** !
I live in Portland, just north of Nashville. I seriously plan to go EFI on my 360 FE motor. I bought a 1973 Ford 250. I could definitely use your help. Lessons learned can be lessons taught. I would like to learn from your lessons learned. To be clear, I do not have any plans to replace the motor. So I would like to discuss with you further, what to expect. Thanks for your help.
I've had an EFI on my 92 K1500 since the day I bought it, and it is f'n garbage. The module goes out ALL THE TIME, and it costs $60 to replace it every time. You'll be extremely lucky to get 1000 miles out of one. I'm currently looking to sell/trade my entire Edelbrock intake/tbi/distributor setup because i'm beyond tired of dealing with it
Great video! I’m thinking of getting a Holley Sniper for my 65 Mustang.
The EFI is awesome but for the cost I prefer more in high end muscle cars like Charger 426, Challenger, Camaro in which you can take them to an advanced injection workshop and pay the high price, since the car has a high price. For a low-priced car, the EFI seems excessive.
I’ve nothing but good things to say about the two MSD Atomic EFI kits I’ve installed. Heard nothing but horror stories about Fitech hence I went with MSD.
How about putting a 4.7 out a mustang, into a extra cab ford ranger, and I will reroute the mustang exhaust system for the truck, ya know it got to have that deep sound
I installed an Edelbrock E-Street setup on my 70 vette.. Newly rebuilt with new exhaust.... It would not run past 4500rpm and that was the good part.. Starting was a bitch, cruising just did not happen very well... 3000rpm at 70 mph.. Acceleration was lots of missing.... I did the complete install 3 times and every time it was the same.. I sent the unit back to Edelbrock where they gladly updated the software.. Still the same or even worse...... I gave it away and I understand it has never run since.. I went back to the holly carb and it runs great, starts great turns 6000rpm+ and gets 17mpg cruising and 15 mpg in town... I guess if it works great but I have yet to actually see a person that did not have problems with whatever they installed....
I have installed three efi on three different cars in my collection, I hate carbs! EFI is so much more drivable, but I have never and will not buy or install a Fitech! They are total garbage!
I'm annoyed with my sniper probably going back to carb I grew up with and know well.
Um on second thought I'll keep my 4 bbl
I added efi to a 1966 cutlass using all GM parts no aftermarket stuff you have to remember GM efi cars came with a long warrant and have millions miles proof. aftermarket kits are for the track only
I'm interested in MPG gains. 67 Chevy, 2wd, 350, 4 speed is only getting 12.5 MPG. Starts instantly, dosen''t smell strongly of gas, Headers, full exhaust, Edelbrock intake and 1405 carb, tuned pretty well, new distributor. Besides an EFI system (I already drive like grandpa) and a T56... I don't see how to get better MPG.
I have a 68 charger with a 550 hp stroked 440, Do you know if an efi unit will help with carb heat soak issues
Yeah, you don't have them because you don't have a carb. Huge Input to ECU is temp, and of course adjusts enrichment to match that
Great video, but I do have to disagree with you on not using anything but an in tank high pressure pump. I had a Holley sniper, just bricked the ECU & bought the Pro-Flo 4. On a sbc 423 hp(dyno) the only thing that i have not had a issue with is the Robbmc surge tank fed with the mechanical fuel pump. I don't know the actual volume the (mechanical) pump puts out & have not held it at full throttle longer than 1/4 mile & with that, have never starved the EFI for fuel. I can't speak for any other surge tanks out there and especially the ones that do not return fuel to the tank, but the Robbmc unit has been turn key & trouble free.
I was thinking about getting one of these for my Dodge but now I'm rethinking everything I think it would be really a lot cheaper going with a 5.3 from a Chevy junkyard here I come
Your right I can just do a ls 5.3 swap for cheaper thanks bro you save me bigger money
@@darkside2521 your welcome
got the fitech 30005 and when initial frist start up i got it to run but for some reason i can not turn it off with my key i had to disconect the plug from my distributor..i have my white wire going to my fuse box to ignition fuse and my blue wire going to my green wire from my distributor which is my tach wire... i have a hei dis. and 355 small block 1990 k5 blazer...it wont shut down with the key off...
So, basically, there are no short-cuts- things need to be right in either system. One system is far more tolerant of mis-adjustment or deficiencies, the other is not. Regarding a “fuel sump”, presumably a small header near the throttle body for a reserve of fuel nearer to the engine?
You got it
Nice Bronco and as for that Bronco power wheel ML TOY is making some power upgrades
Really!? I’ll have to check it outp
I went with a Edelbrock avs2 650 cfm on 68 lincoln continental 460. Love it works perfect .Thought about EFI. seems like it needs a lot tweeking to get to run.2 adjustment on the carb and runs great.
I’ve got 5 Edelbrock carbs and I absolutely love them but I’ve never had a AVS Edelbrock. In your opinion do you like them better than the original Edelbrocks and if so what are the advantages of the AVS carbs?
@@matthewjohnson2495 Throtle response is amazing with AVS 2. Carb .I do have 1406 on my 75 Gran torino love it also.
I have a 86 mustang gt and was wondering how to go from fuel injection to carb?
Thank you
Hagerty says a tach sweep on start up will cause the kit to flood out. How do you stop that. ??
Great info, as always, Jon!
Thanks Mike!
I agree with most people on here. Running FItech for a year now, and it is junk, nobody can tune them, they self program? Nope, they are dangerous. Anybody want to buy mine? Lol
Back to carb for me.
Haha! Yeah I hear ya
Do you have your fitech for sale? Haha I’m interested
I’m 32 and been hot rodding and swapping ls motors since I was 19.So unfortunately can’t say I’ve had any of those ah ha moments doing the swaps.
I have had many tuning OEM controllers though
My 71 caprice Four barrel edelbrock. Sum-bitch runs rich or idles high. If it sits for a week i got pump that carb 30 times to start
fuel pump or carb problem
What was the reason for needing a new Intake and Distributor for the fiTech System?
Stock intake didn’t fit. It needed to be the square opening for the throttle body. And the FiTech needed a 2 wire distributor