Ludwig Supraphonic Vs Black Beauty | SpectreSoundStudios SHOOTOUT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Ludwig Supraphonic: bit.ly/2H1cXnG
Ludwig Black Beauty: bit.ly/2JLnMvH
Moongels: bit.ly/2Hw7FDU
Had Jackson Ward in the studio the other day & thought we'd shoot out two of the most popular recording snares in history!
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I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
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Supraphonic wins for me, deeper tone, nice!
I also prefer the Supraphonic. The black beauty seems to have more tonality, where I really I want snares not to have too much of a distinguishable tone.
The Supra is tuned about a step lower so that has something to do with it. I've tracked both drums a lot and the Black Beauty is usually a beefier sounding drum with the Supra being a bit punchier.
Just sounds like it was tuned lower, rather than any real deeper tone.
Agreed. The Black Beauty is great but it can sound a bit too metallic at times. Those brass snares can sound great in other situations but it depends on the song and the drummer. The Supraphonic is more universal and tends to blend in better.
Supraphonic all the way !
Great comparison! I would have loved to hear the drums at different tunings like low/medium/high and with/without moongel :)
definitely check out the video on my channel if you like stuff like that
Black beauty has more of a pop to it which I prefer
same here :D
I like it too!
For me its the equivalent of a strat vs a les paul lol
if you want a BB sound but dont want to pay the BB price tag, get a worldmax black on brass. same shell
Seemed like the Black Beauty had more "bite" and a tendency to cut through more. Would like to hear a comparison in a full mix for sure!
I want ALL the snares. Those are both beautiful snare drums. If I had to make a choice I’d say the supraphonic!
agree! both sounded great. the Beauty was a little too boomy for my tastes. it was more big band-y and led zepelin like. really just depends on what it's getting used for. for that riff/style- i liked the supraphonic. nice and crisp.
Supraphonic has more balls...
Bonham almost exclusively used a 14x6.5 supraphonic. It’s all about tuning...both drums have outrageous tuning range. This video only represents one tuning range and mic placement.
Supraphonic all the way but the Black Beauty would be incredible too in certain songs
I don't suppose they were tuned anywhere near the same, were they? The Black Beauty sounds like it was cranked up higher than the Supraphonic.
Yeah...
I feel the same about that.
Definitely. That's a problem with these comparisons. When tuned the same, that's when you can either pick out small nuances or realize how similar they can sound.
"Hey guys, check out how two different things sound different!"
Yeah, thanks a whole lot...
Awesome shootout! I found the Supraphonic to have less ping and a tighter snare sound that better serves more complex rhythms. Honestly, they both sound excellent but my vote is for Supraphonic.
Supraphonic is much more punchy! I love it! It has such a better impact.
instablaster.
I Prefer the harder attack of the Black Beauty, sound's like it'd be easier to get to cut through a metal mix.
I prefer the Black Beauty but I think it might have been tuned a hair higher. Totally unsure about the long ring on the floor tom though. Can't decide if I like it or not. Great job, Glenn! Thanks man!
Personally I've always gone for the long ring-out on my floor toms. I love how it kinda goes "DOOOOOOOOM" haha
You like doom metal, I assume?
That would be correct, Sir ;)
Nice, I have mad respect for the subgenre. Funny how the drums sometimes have a metric ton of reverb on them. Anyways, take it easy mate!
Yeah, I guess because of the incredibly slow yet BIG feel and sound the bands are trying to make, much reverb is one of the go-to's. Cheers, good talk :)
I gotta tell you though... Black Beauties don't take to rimshots all that well. They're resonant enough without hitting the rim.
Nothing cracks like a black beauty!
🤘😝🤘
Black beauty for me from what is shown, would have been nice to hear in a mix though
I like the Supraphonic more. I like a dryer snare then u can rim shot if u want a higher pitched hit, more versatile in my opinion.That black beauty seemed to be tuned higher. The floor Tom had a weird overtone as well.
I like the black beauty here, but they sound like they’re tuned different.
Exactly not a fair comparison
@@Webby582 agreed
both remind me to EZDrummer samples. :)) I prefer Black Beauty in heavy dense mix as it's very snappy. but for pop or general mix, I'd prefer the Supraphonic. it's just more pleasant in my ear.
Michael Giles from King Crimson uses Supra i think
Seems like the Black Beauty is tuned higher than the Supraphonic. Thus, it's impossible to tell which snare is the best in this comparison.
SUPRAPHONIC...wins here.....neither should have had muffling.
Maybe a non rock drummer would have been useful , as well as this guy.
That Black Beauty is pretty sweet, but I definitely dig the Supraphonic more. It just sounds incredible!
I love the sound of the supraphonic, it has a much darker tonality and simply sits where I think a snare drum should be in a mix of any genre. The black beauty seems too bright for my taste, it might try to compete with instruments and vocals in the upper regions of the audible spectrum.
Loving the Supraphonic! Less of an overtone, and a much fuller body, so I think.
In my personal opinion, the Black Beauty. When my band recorded in Nashville in 2008, we tried a a bunch of snares. The one that won out, hands down, was the Black Beauty.
I think I liked the supraphonic more.. Has a bit more warmth to it.. The black beauty sounded a little more trebly in comparision..
Both sound amazing in difference ways, but the Black Beauty is tuned higher so the comparison is not a 100% fair imo. In a metal context I would probably use the Black Beauty, but in a pop/rock sort of setting I'd go with the Supraphonic because it sounds more mellow and has less ring to it (?)...but I don't own any of these snares anyway so fuck me.
You should do a follow-up to this and include the Supralite. It's only $200 but I've heard that it sounds AMAZING!
As expected, everyone commenting has a fave based on personal taste. I own a BB and Supra, both 6.5 depth, both with tube lugs, and they are both excellent. As Jeff Holden notes below, the BB brass shell naturally gives it a higher fundamental pitch and more overtones that ring out nicely, while the Supra's aluminum shell gives it a lower fundamental (at same head tuning) and a wonderful mid-range meaty 'thwack' that is easy to like. Both are HUGE and LOUD and have a good range of usable tuning, damping possibilities, head choices, etc.. It really comes down to artistic choice for each song. I just wish Ludwig didn't charge so much for them these days, and wish they would not put such crap throwoffs on them.
1st clip I prefer the Supraphonic
2nd clip I prefer the black beauty
As an individual snare I find the Supraphonic more desirable, but for metal I'd say surprisingly the black beauty won this shootout for me.
Would have liked to to see various things on both snares, but regardless good video!
I have one of each and to me, the 402 has a higher trebely thing going on while the black beauty is darker sounding. If you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you which one I prefer.
I prefer the black beauty. From a hi fi listening, it has a more rounded sound, a greater range of frequencies and above all a warmer sound. The supraphonic is beautiful but too dry
Assuming there was no eq on either of the snares, the black beauty has no balls and sounds really flat. Supraphonic has more depth to the sound. Doesn't sound GREAT, but sounds alright compared to the black beauty. Also lol'd at the missed choke at the end, haha.
Havent mixed a black beauty yet, but Supraphonic makes a lot of sense why its one the most recorded snares of all time! Love your vids glenn!
Here's my take on a supraphonic th-cam.com/video/7NAL-rf0EVg/w-d-xo.html
The spectrometer of the SD2 samples reveals they both have a bump at 200hz with the supraphonic 5db higher. The big difference being the black beauty has a cut at 400hz. Supra has slightly more at 1-2k and they both have similar small bump at 5k
Shit have been playing drums for over 10 years now. Not so much for the last year and a half which sucks Different story anyway) Never thought I would say this but the Supraphonic wins for me. The Black Beauty is in the top 5 THE snare drums of all time. Supraphonic had more body too it, will The Black Beauty sounded in a higher tuning and losses the body sound. Different tuning and dampening would make a difference to the snares. Too me The Black Beauty sounds killer in a low to medium tuning, the Supraphonic keeps it's fat body sound in higher tunings. They are both amazing snares. On this comparison Supraphonic, now where is my bank card :)
*Supraphonic* for sure. And here's me recording Sonor: th-cam.com/video/Atebq_T3aHU/w-d-xo.html
The Supra-phonic, hands down. It was fat, solid, flush. A great big smack down. The Black Beauty? Sounds good initially. The boing boing, got irritating, after a while. Much too ringy. Possibly good as a Metal, irritant, perhaps? Nice recording of those drums by the way.
Well with so different tunings it's hard to tell.. As is, the black beauty has more punch and will cute better in to a mix...
I was fully ready to say Supraphonic by the first beat, but the Black Beauty has something... else, very different sound that just kind of sat in nicely once drumming got busy, the Supraphonic had almost a bit too much of the classic woody snare tone and muddied things up just a bit too much with toms and kick. I'd recon Black Beauty would require slightly less EQ magic to sound awesome in a mix. Actually about that! How do they sound in a mix?!
But, all in all this was an awesome comparison and made my tiny bass player head think things... and now it hurts.
Hi Glen, for your next VC video, I really want to become an engineer besides being a musician and touring with my bands, but I'm from a more eastern European country (Romania) and the closest musical production university is in London or Ireland, a few thousands of kms away, it also costs 20.000£ a year or something like that, which is absurd. Do you think it is necessary to go to a production university to become a good producer?
They're both great.
Black Beauty has more of a Midrange **BAP** to it. Nice, tight and punchy.
The Supraphonic was close but in the first example it appeared to have more of a Ring.
At least that's what I got from my so-so Computer speakers. If I had to choose I would go for the Black Beauty. It seemed to have that edge and also carries more 'cachet..
Black Beauty being a brass shell, it's no wonder it rings like a bell. And Supraphonic being aluminum AND beaded is going to naturally be a drier sounding drum.
I've had seven different Ludwig snares over my "lifetime" as a drummer...with one of them being a Supraphonic. And I loved the sound of all of them. However, all but one of them had an issue where the snare wires would just suddenly be loose for no obvious reason. I would check the straps and they would be nice and taut. I'd adjust the strainer and all would be well for a while. Then they would suddenly loosen again. I did some research and found lots of posts where others had experienced the same thing. Had to be something weird with the strainers. Go figure.
In this maybe prefer the Supraphonic, but depends on its application, the music etc. Both sound phenomenal... Supra maybe a bit warmer, Black Beauty more snap? Maybe that's just the tuning? Great comparison though!
Hey glen, me and my band wanted to try to record some real drums instead of using samples for a Demo. All I have is an audio interface with 1 input, perhaps 2 inputs if I can borrow one from a friend (we do have a few drum mics we can borrow). I also have and a Zoom stereo recording Device. We don't really have money to buy anything else. How do you suggest recording drums with this kind of equipment?
Black beauty!!!!!
Apparently, Gar Samuelsson loaned his Black Beauty to Lars Ulrich when Metallica were recording Master Of Puppets. Kinda explains why Ulrich has never had a better snare tone since....
Black Beauty for me. But on the two there's something that annoy me on the Kick, a strange frequency that "buzz"
That might just be whatever you're listening through. I don't hear anything on the kick.
That's most probably a short reverb used in mixing. And I agree, sounds really annoying.
I don't hear anything buzzing on the kick, maybe you're thinking of the ghost notes on the snare he does in the first beat? Otherwise your speakers are probably blown.
PutItAway101 there are no ghost notes around 0:40, and I can clearly hear the reverb on speakers as well as headphones.
There could be a little room reverb, but there's nothing "buzzing" except for when he's playing the ghost notes. If your speakers are OK and you're hearing buzzing there, it's probably your ears that are blown.
The Supraphonic sounds incredible. Dare I say almost perfect. It has the right amount of stick crack, awesome low mid punch, and in my opinion a more satisfying ring. The Black Beauty does sound good, don't get me wrong, and that is an awesome Rock sound that is heard almost everywhere in the 90's and 2000's in Rock and Metal. It's hard to beat perfection.
Now, as a follow-up, I think it would be interesting to test both drums with Die-Cast Hoops on both of these drums (And especially on the batter side of the drum). It's a modification that is common enough on both drums it would be worth testing. Plus, this is a metal channel, and a Die-Cast hoop on either drum should produce a Rim Shot to kill for.
I own and love both, I prefer the Black Beauty slightly. It is a little more "beefy". However, if you are on a budget the Supra 402 is the winner since it is about $200 cheaper.
both of them sounds great but each them has own cons and pros so i would say depends on genre of music you are playing will decide your choice.
Was there compression and EQ? Is the reverb just rooms and overheads. Is is just to total mics that make it sound processed? Sounds like maybe the rooms, overheads and close mics make it sound this way.
Black Beauty has too much ring for my taste, but that may be fixable with tuning. The Supraphonic is a little darker than I'd like. Of the two, I'd go with the Supraphonic, based only on this video.
I really want to say Supraphonic, because Bonham; but in reality, if I was buying a snare for my drum set... Black Beauty.
I feel like I'm betraying someone....
Black beauty - It's got a little more snap/presence I think because you can hear the overtone come through compared to the other. The Supraphonic has a flatter sound. Both respond great though. I think the Black Beauty would stand out in a mix more with fewer adjustments.
Sound's like the Black Beauty would be better for metal,and the Supraphonic better for classic/heavy Rock!!!I guess it's just why that's what we are used to listen through the years but sure there are not rules....
Superphonic all the way. The black beauty has a very pleasing ring to it, that I actually like, but it's not as tight.
I hate to say it because I own a 14 x 16.5 Supraphonic, but I prefer the black beauty. There is a certain ring in the Supraphonic in mine and the one here that I don't care fore as much, the Black Beauty is cleaner and more crisp. I'm going to say that some of this choice is based on the music. If it is heavier, the Black Beauty is where it is at, but if it is a bit slower and more funky, I think the Supraphonic is more appropriate to fill out the spaces between the hits more naturally. with the whole band.
I think all here is a matter of sound preferences of the drummer, the group and the song. both sound great and are slightly different. i got a Supraphonic from the 80s and restored it for a couple of months and now used it on few shows and people get crazy :) the soundguys love it too, this drum has everything i want from a snare and is really flexible in terms of tuning
PS: I guess most Ludwigs are like that?
Both sound too low for my likings. I like it more in the upper midrange. Don't know if different tunings would make them better for me but if i had to choose i'd probably go with the black beauty, probably without the moongel. A lower sounding snare with some more ring to it definitely can be nice too. Not St. Anger trashcan ring but a bit more. ^^
Dont know.. the Black Beauty will cut through no doubt, straight forward and tight...but that F*&kin Super is just so deep, and alittle offsetting in tone. Comes through really nice...guess it depends on what you need. I think all drummers need both..LOL
For my taste, the Supraphonic wins this comparison.
The Black Beauty isn't bad at all, it sounds very good too.
But the Supraphonic has a tighter attack, which gives the edge to this drum.
supraphonic sounds more balanced and mellow whereas the black beauty has a slightly abrasive crack to it. Supraphonic for me. I have a 30 ish year old 14 x 5 and love it.
Why belt the hell out the cymbals , when demonstrating the snares.
Just posing..!
+1 to the Black Beauty, Supraphonic sounds to much like an 80's snare for my taste.
Supra have more different tones and is much more deep and versatile sound and tone…
Both snares sounds great, but supra Wins …
Gimme a break... everyone knows that the tone is in the wood... the stick wood... drum tone is in the drumsticks... gotta have drumsticks made outta the right wood...
The plate(?) reverb was a bit too pronounced in the quiet comparison part to my taste. Otherwise great, simple comparison. I'd take the Supraphonic!
supraphonic wins IMO. Robust thwack sound it just packs more punch where it counts. I own one from 1965 and even then they still blow so many modern snares out of the water.
Spura sounds much fatter and controlled, which I like. It looks like it doesn't cut through the mix when he's playing metal but it probably has to do with the tuning. It sounds like supra is tuned lower.
Glenn what’s your take on a substantial age difference in bands. I’m 18 and I’m playing with guys in their 40s. We get along but it’s weird I can’t figure out what to do if anything?
Black Beauty deff seems like it hold hold it's own in a mix better with high gain and lots of down tuning. The Supraphonic does a much better sound on it's own but that's not how to buy equipment for a band.
I love the deep fatness and warmth of the Supraphonic and if I had to pick just one that would be it, but I can see how you might want that immediate punchy crispness of the Black Beauty for some applications, I think it sounded better than the Supraphonic on the fast Painkiller-style beat.
Supraphonic for the first example, Black beauty for the second. The beauty just cuts through the kicks better.
I usually prefer the Ludalloy/Aluminum drums but the brass Ludwigs do have a cool, edgy upper mid thing. It would really depend on the track, if I had the luxury of both.
supraphonic for me.
PS: if you want a black beauty but dont want to pay the BB price tag, get a worldmax black on brass, same shell.
The supraphonic wins in my opinion! I am a bassist, not a drummer, so it’s impossible for me to explain why, but I think it’s miles ahead of the Black beauty!
For metal definetely Beauty, it has more punch, imo. Supraphonic might be just what jazz needs because it feels softer.
Black Beauty cut better and was preferred in a mix, but the Supraphonic felt more sonicly similar to the rest of the kit. I would use the BB and try and work with miking either close or room to mimic some of the roundness of the Supra.
The Black Beauty seems to have a more crispy and punchy tone than the Supraphonic, so I prefer the Beauty. The Supraphonic still sounds terrific though!
love the supraphonic but that black beauty sounds way better. i am 66 years old and i know when to change my ways for the better. tradition goes to the curve and innovation speaks the loudest. black beauty the winner. after reading peoples comments , i say it is a personal choice and what ever makes you happy.
Black Beauty has more action, and the Supraphonic is an absolute cannon!
Bogus comparison. They are not tuned the same.The Supraphonic is tuned to a noticeably lower pitch (down a little more than a half step) on the top head than the Black Beauty.
The Supraphonic has a fatter/dryer sound to it that I’m really digging. It sounds closer to Matt Cameron’s snare on “Superunkown”, I know Glen’s opinions on grunge music, but the snare on that record sounds amazing.
Black beauty had a better all around tone and a longer tail. The other one had a better short tail better suited for metal or rock imo. Both great snares. 2nd one for me.
...I mean, he's good, but he definitely could be a lot better if he worked on his technique a little. His arms are all cramped up. Dude, relax a little
I liked the Black Beauty better...like another said, it cut through slightly better. Loved both of em really. That kid had some cool chops.
my typical issue with the black beauty is the ping, which is illustrated here, and becomes annoying to me when the snare is played at higher bpms. I liked it better in the beginning with the slower rhythm and it had more crack, but the second round it got irritating and the ping took over the drum mix. so supraphonic wins in this battle overall.
Black Beauty for me. The Supraphonic has a dead, flat tone to it. The Black Beauty, on the other hand is brighter, and has a more defined attack and a nice ring that sustains just long enough to give a truly acoustic feel to each hit.
Seems that the black beauty has a higher pitch... (I like a bit more)
Cheers from Brazil!
Sorry the english...
Supra.
To me, the black beauty had a bit more ring to it. If tuning the supraphonic to a ringier sound, I might prefer it because of the punch, but the black beauty wins this round.
Hey Glenn, both of these snares sounded killer, but there is a third, more affordable option. Ludwig also has the Black Magic snare. Brass shell, tube lugs, triple flanged hoops and it comes in three different depths 5.5",6.5",& 8". The best part is it's only $299 ($399 for the 8") US. Love the videos Glenn, keep them coming!
Supraphonic. Warmer, feels less disconnected from the rest of the kit. Depends on what you're going for, of course.
I personally love the black beauty better because i personally like the sound of brass drums. In the context of your kit, the supraphonic works better
Supra but I must say the tuning is very different so the BB with a lower tuning might be even better. Not that I dislike higher tuning but it doesn't really work in that case for me.
Just me that thought they both sounded pretty phase-y and thuddy? Would have been nice to hear their true character without the gel too!
Think I prefer the BB from this though, just because more of the character actually gets through rather than just the thud
that black beauty would be great for solo drumming....the supraphonic would probably beef up a full band mix a bit better.
Black Beauty does it for me, but I can't define exactly why.
Black beauty wins out to me. I prefer a pop rather then a crack when it comes to a snare. The supraphonic sounds lovely, but it's not my cup of tea.
Black Beauty
whatever snare drum ali richardson is using on the latest bleed from within album - no samples on that record because he CAN actually hit his drums good enough.