EV Myths - Electric Car Heaters in Winter: Dead in an Hour?!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- When winter rolls around, electric car heaters suck up all the juice and EVs get stranded every day, right? Well, not quite...
This week's (extremely rare) snowy snarl-up along I-95 in Virginia supercharged the dated memes -- you've seen them: awful fonts, poor grammar, hyperbolic punctuation -- claiming that when this happens to electric cars, we're all doomed (DOOMED, I tell ye!!!) Having done many cold weather trips and lived to tell the tale, we thought that Greater Boston's first snow day of the season was the perfect opportunity to recreate an hours-long winter idling test in our 2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV.
Over seven hours, our Bolt stayed on in the driveway and quietly translated energy from its 66 kWh battery pack into cabin heat. How much did it gobble up and would we be walking home if this was happening anywhere other than our driveway?
Check out this loose-yet-illustrative cold-weather test to see why electric car heaters in winter don't make EVs the death trap that some folks would have us believe.
I-95 Virginia Snow Delays Context:
www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...
Report from Tesla Model Y Performance owner who was in the jam:
(Source: Reddit)
"Monday at around 5pm I was in traffic heading home on 95 south in Virginia and got stuck due to the snow storm. I ended up stuck in traffic for 16hrs! Thank goodness for my tesla. I was initially at 74% when the jam started and when I was able to get home I was around 61%. It was a nightmare being stuck in the traffic jam but I’m glad I was stuck in my tesla. I turned on camp mode and napped for a bit. I hope this is helpful to anyone and I’m praying for all those still without power in Virginia. I still don’t have power so when it gets too cold my partner and I will likely sleep in my car. It’s currently at 56%."
--------------------------------------
Questions/comments/suggestions welcome via plugandplayEV@gmail.com or over on Instagram/Twitter @plugandplayEV.
Fuel the channel by shouting us a cup of coffee via Ko-Fi (we'll write your name on the cup, honest): ko-fi.com/plugandplayev
** Big thanks to Bob, Dave and Brian for keeping the java flowing in 2021! **
--------------------------------------
Music from Uppbeat:
uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/illum...
License code: KE2TJGGYG2ZM8OOI - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I lived in Alabama when a similar situation hit us unexpectedly and stranded thousands upon thousands of cars across the southeast from Birmingham through I-20 to Atlanta. There were no electric cars at the time and thankfully I was one of the blessed ones to make it home that night. The next day I drove back out taking side roads to rescue friends and coworkers who had been stranded in near zero temps. What I found out was that many ICE cars ran out of gas because they started with low gas or they idled all night. Once they ran out of gas people were joining together in other cars to stay warm, or they simply abandoned their cars and walked to churches, hotels, places of business etc. that opened their doors to those who needed help. The reality is that we should always be prepared for unexpected bad weather regardless of the car we drive.
I am very excited for the day when I get my first EV and this video helped a lot. Thanks so much!
Thank you, Gerald! We're happy this is reaching beyond existing EV owners and perhaps helping a few like you feel confident that electric cars more than make the grade in winter. Pinned your comment to the top in case others are in your situation. Thanks again for the feedback! ⚡⚡
I live in the Midwest farther North than you are. All of us know that you don't go anywhere without at least a half tank of fuel. The one advantage of an ICE car is that someone can bring you a 2 or 5 gallon gas can and you get on down the road for a long ways or run the heat for hours. If you are in a BEV you can only get a small amount of extra energy using a Bluetti or something similar. Those don't hold nearly as much comparable energy as 1 gallon of gas.
@@desertdan100 I agree. You can also carry spare gas in winter weather just for this purpose. An EV you are out of luck.
I own a electric car. Don’t be fooled. They lose up to 50% battery power when cold. They are toys. It’s my backup car.
What EV, Mike? Because the 18,000 miles we've done in ours across 15 states this past 9 months feels like more than "toy" level!
And remember OP is in Alabama, with mostly warm temps and very little likelihood to see the dramatic range loss you claim.
Thank you for making this video! I'll be sharing it on my FB feed. It's staggering how much misinformation is out there about EV's and how people simply will not listen to anything that doesn't fit the narrative in their heads.
I don't really expect to reach - or care about reaching - the real anti-EV brigade, but it's important to show anyone on the fence that those claims are just garbage. Loss of range is one thing, especially as some people will need to know the ins and outs of that in winter, but claiming we can't heat the cabin in a traffic jam is just outright FUD.
Great test! It's amazing how quickly the anti-ev crowd jumped on this.
Thanks! I actually got the meme second-hand from a relative last winter and thought about a test, but it seemed like a crazy scenario to plan for... guess Virginia proves otherwise!
We have been in sudden snow-related jams for an hour or two on our travels though, so it's good to be able to show that electric vehicles would pass more regular cold weather delays with flying colors.
I like the fact that in an EV I’m much more likely to have a “full tank” since I charge every night. That already puts me at a huge advantage. If I’m properly dressed and preheat my Bolt I can travel comfortably for about 45min in sub-freezing temps on only heated seats and steering wheel. Also no worries about Carbon Monoxide poisoning with a snow blocked exhaust.
That's the thing, we have a greater likelihood of starting the journey full or high SOC thanks to home/workplace charging. And because EVs offer so much information about energy flow, their drivers are often more conscious of staying charged up and properly preparing for cold weather.
The potential of bidirectional charging shouldn't be overlooked either. As more EVs with that capability hit the road, the option for a vehicle at high SOC to help one low on juice in an emergency could be valuable in certain scenarios.
the more people in the car the easier it is to keep warm
Finally somebody that understands that fact about being able to charge it at home
Quick Charging an electric car will take 50 AMP service. Most households only have total of 100amp service. So what are you willing to turn off to charge your car overnight?
@@captseamus There can certainly be issues in getting adequate power out to your garage. However even my 20 year old contractor grade house had an open 50amp service meant for a electric stove. I actually ended up just using a 30amp breaker for a non-used dryer plug already in the garage. More than adequately quick. There are a lot of innovative solutions and even tax credits for installing home chargers these days. Car manufacturers are even subsiding it.
In a situation in which Vancouver, BC, Canada was hit with a snow storm a month ago I was at about 65% charge. I was scared as it was just bumper to bumper traffic. I didn't change to an eco/chill mode, I kept the music on and used heat/defrost, and I was stuck in traffic for about 2.5 hours. When I arrived home I used about 12% battery. Honestly not as bad as I thought, and I could have done a lot more to preserve some battery in those conditions.
I wonder if you just used your heated seats how much longer you get. Getting stuck on the road I wouldn't be looking for comfort. Just staying alive would be my main goal.
It's essentially 1kW or a bit below, so in a Bolt I estimate you'd get pretty close to the relative % of the pack in kWh. So on a 60kWh pack, roughly 15 hours at 25% SOC, 30 hours at 50%, and 45 hours at 75%.
Thank you from England. Very informative and mind settling. We do not get too cold here, but your video made the anxiety go away.
Great to hear, thanks for the feedback. I'm originally from the Lancashire area, so not as cold as Massachusetts but still good to know what might happen in the cold.
Been getting a lot of misinformation on this specific scenario on all my Social Media channels. Thank you for this test and look forward to other tests in colder weather (if we get any this year in the US Northeast).
Yep, truly bizarre how desperate some folks are to dismiss a new technology with crazy claims. Almost as hard to believe as no winter snow around these parts until after Christmas? Might have to head further North for a true test!
The good news is that you can discharge or use your battery no matter how cold it gets, without worrying about damage. You will notice that your lithium battery is dying much quicker than it had in warmer months. When temperatures reach this low, below freezing, it temporarily reduces the capacity.
Thanks for taking us through a practical winter test of the Bolt EV's capability to maintain comfortable cabin temperature over several hours. I would add that, in my Bolt, taking longer winter trips from Ottawa, Canada I'm always dressed for the conditions anyway. Better to be safe than sorry! Really appreciate your channel. Thanks!
Thanks! It feels like there's quite a gap between "winter-ready" US states and Canadian provinces vs. those further south and less prepared for the deep cold. Moving to Boston from NYC, it definitely took a harsh winter to upgrade our wardrobe with proper winter gear, so I guess the same is true of drivers and their vehicles.
So, taking longer trips in inclement weather in Canada in a gas vehicle you could carry spare gas just in case.
Dress for the worst and enjoy. I don't wear a coat or winter boots while I am driving but always have the right stuff in the back, not to keep warm in the car (battery will take of that) but incase of being stuck in snow or an accident.
@@eugeniaskelley5194 LOL okay. SUV or hatchback, no thanks. PS: the point is to get away from the pollution.
Good video, great information,
Real facts, I like that!
Thank you
Thanks 👍Glad facts and hard data are still valued in some circles!
Thanks for the test and putting people's minds at ease. The time lapse starting around 5:30 was cool.
Thanks Tom! Only realized after that I screwed up the center console data visibility by taking the phone out of Bluetooth range. 🤦
Disclaimer: As mentioned in the video, this *is not* to say that EVs would make light work of the Virginia debacle! That was an extreme emergency situation in its own right that would challenge any vehicle's stored energy, gasoline or electrons. We simply debunk the myth that no EV could last even a few hours... clearly, a low state of charge, much like a low gas tank, would pose a problem in this scenario.
Further topics for discussion include:
-- What about lower temps? (Not dissimilar, but to be tested)
-- You can't top up a battery like a jerry can of gas. SparkCharge is one example that you can - www.sparkcharge.io/. Bidirectional charging is another potential solution, or even charging from the outlet of a combustion vehicle or generator, if worst comes to worst)
-- Greater energy savings from low-consumption options like Tesla's "Camp Mode" and other eco modes.
"You can't top up a battery like a jerry can of gas." Last time I was caught in a white-out all the gas stations were abandoned and it was 5 hours of frigid crawl before I could refuel. With an EV all you'd need to find is any 120V outlet, even in an abandoned gas station, and it would provide enough power to run the heater indefinitely.
Happy 😊 Christmas
And a Happy New Year! 🎉
heathed seats seem to be the answer to at least some comfort even if the battery state is less than ideal. ive been using mine for most of my trips around town, keeping the cabin heat turned off(other than short blasts when the window gets foggy) since all i would be doing is wasting energy and there has been maybe one extremely cold day where i felt they weren't enough. there are even seat covers with that function for people who bought a car wo them and those can't really consume more than 200W. so an iMiev could keep them going for like 3 days on a full battery.
@@yvs6663 I just use my seat heater as well. If it's really cold, I have a small fleece blanket in the car that I can put over my lap. Works great. Even w/ temps in the teens I can keep my seats on low and still be toasty.
Hope you can make another test in colder weather. Being from Montreal average winter temps are -15c(currently -27c) so really curious how the extreme cold would impact over all duration on a battery that is 70% charge
Just missed the cold snap in Boston as we were away, but hopefully there will be another to run a similar test. Lowest we see for extended periods is usually high teens/low 20s F, which isn't going to be nearly sufficient to replicate the conditions of our Canadian comrades!
Thanks for sucking it up for science for 7 hours in the freezing cold! Absolutely freezing just watching this. Ive been meaning to watch this for ages! I think you might have done an even colder one since then so I'm going to check your newer vids but really important stuff to illustrate. Like someone else mentioned, I think we are also much more likely to leave home on a full charge than with a full gas tank, so that's certainly part of the consideration - Liv
Yep, no problem at all for any EV leaving home with a normal state of charge... the joys of charging at home and/or work! Cheers!
and you can prewarm it and still leave at 100%
Another awesome video! Thanks
Glad you enjoyed, thanks for watching!
Got the “cross climate” Michelin tires this year and can’t believe the increase in dry, wet and snow! The high efficiency tires would spin on dry pavement and were scary in snow! I leave my Bolt on recirculate when I park to save juice when I remote preheat in the morning, no fogging with no one in the car!
I hear that a lot, just a slight tire upgrade from the Bolt stocks translates to a big improvement in grip and handling. Do you give up much range for that upgrade?
@@plugandplayEV can’t tell any difference when just driving daily routine! Someone would need to do long range testing to see! I would never go back no matter what it cost because of the safety I feel now! Better braking and acceleration, even sport mode won’t break the tires loose!
Awesome!
Very good info. Thanks for conducting this test. I’ve seen so many shares of that meme about EVs in the cold that I’m exhausted. I will anxiously await your further tests. In reality, most of the time we would not be starting from a cold battery or cabin so the start up wouldn’t be so high plus I would keep the cabin temp at much lower temp than I normally do. I feel better about getting trapped in snow in an EV than I do in an ICE car, especially after considering the tragic deaths of those in Pakistan a couple of days ago. Some died from hypothermia and others from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Sad but important points, thanks Scott. Re. other tests, our Canadian peers report similar outcomes maintaining the heat in temperatures far below freezing. Add in the likelihood of preconditioning the cabin from the wall then starting from 90%+ and an EV starts to look not just the equal of traditional cars, but the better option in many scenarios.
Good idea making this video to answer some of the common EV myths with some factual data 👍
It clearly highlights that an EV would be just fine in those conditions since you can channel all your available energy to only heating the cabin.
According to you test - you will need about 1.7 kWh per hour to stay comfortable.
A few additional thoughts:
No need putting on the heated steering wheel since you can't drive (stuck in traffic) and you can warm your hands on your seat.
Also, remember to turn off your headlights and turn down the cabin lights to a minimum (you don't need ambient lighting) and turn off the radio display also.
I think cabin temp of 72 Fahrenheit is reasonable if you are dressed for winter (like you would be if you drive in that kind of weather).
All good points, thanks Ernst. The headlights were off but I could certainly have shut off the steering wheel and left it at 72F. Didn't want to make any concessions to the potential "see, you had to skimp cos it's an EV!" crowd though, so kept it on and cranked it up. Planning another test if we get colder temps that will be more focused on lowest possible settings to keep everything comfortable yet efficient.
Thanks for doing this! Nice to see how different types of EVs would handle these situations.
Getting a 2017 Bolt Premier for my daughter. It is waiting on its battery replacement at the dealer. I read the the Bolt has aluminum doors and hood. How have your Bolts held up to salt and rust in the northeast. I am from western PA so we have similar winter weather. Just curious.
@@model3geek163 I’ve got a Model Y now, but had an S before this. Most (all?) of the body on that was aluminum and was awesome. Aluminum won’t rust, so road grit & salt won’t really effect those sections even if they scratch.
@@brianriebedriveselectric thanks I have a Model Y too. However this question is about the Chevy Bolt.
@@model3geek163 Aluminum panels on the Bolt should be fine in the winter. I wouldn’t worry about it. Hope she loves the Bolt!
@Model3Geek We had a 2017 until summer 2020 and it was in good shape after three winters. A little rust around the brakes but running through a touchless carwash that also blasts the undercarriage once or twice a month in winter seemed to keep things in check. Nothing on the body or hood of either of them. Generally very solid little budget EVs, battery recall notwithstanding.
Thanks. I just got my 2023 Bolt last August, so I am just learning about the heating. I pre-conditioned the battery, without turning on the heater. During a 3-mile trip across town with an outside temperature of 34 F, I needed to de-fog, but the air did not warm up during that brief time. I used the heated seat. I need to experiment more.
Thank you for making this video. Cool! I am impressed! Could you pls describe what indicators did you install in Torque Pro? The information is highly desireble
Thanks, and sure thing. It's actually an old set up that we pulled over from our 2017 Bolt days, so some of the data points aren't feeding correctly (e.g. Batt Capacity).
Once you have Torque Pro and a suitable OBDII dongle (we use Veepeak OBD Check), it's simply a case of importing the Bolt's PID file - available here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTc9__imm6XJ8_O2NE0PU2c0ePnjGes4e2slXluFzh-V2zOe49XU97o_ljivNLXCrgqPMiTjsB6gubQ/pub?gid=1683837621&single=true&output=csv - into Torque and picking the data points you want to see. The names are the same as those in my display, for the most part, so get the data feed set up, add the file, choose your PIDs and you're good to go!
Happy winter!
-20F with the wind chill tonight... winter indeed! 🥶
Thanks for helping to combat FUD!
Happy to do it!
Great video. I'm glad you did this with your Bolt. I've seen others do this with the Tesla because a big claim was made that you'd be stranded in a Tesla. The fact that the Tesla has a "Camp Mode" should tell people that the car is going to be very energy efficient over a lot of hours if you follow some guidelines to stay warm.
Your video shows that this can be achieved almost equally in a car with a slightly smaller battery pack. I said on other channels before that people should also take a few things into consideration. We know the cars will perform well but if you live in colder climate areas then keep a decent warm blanket. You might even be able to find/buy a plugin thermal blanket. Something like that is going to use less energy as well. I also recommend having on hand a few bottles of water and some snack bars such as granola bars and/or some of those fruit bars as well maybe some of the small variety bags of chips. Just having on hand some things to sustain you until you can get going again.
Again, great video.
Thanks for the feedback and additional tips. This was an ad hoc test and not really geared to lower temps/survival mode, so we're looking at other scenarios to test. Turning down the heat and using back-up gear is one of those, so we'll definitely factor in the emergency items you suggest into the video planning. Cheers!
Appreciate ur perspective 🤓
Thanks for watching!
I regularly take 200 mile trip in my 2021 Bolt LT weekly. I drive over Sierra Nevada mountains on I-80 from Sacramento to Reno, NV. My latest trip it was 22 degrees over the pass. Compared to summer/spring/fall trips I have found I lost 50 miles of range. This was mainly due to running heater/defroster. Once I notice the range drop occurring I only ran defroster as needed intermittently to clear windshield for about 45 seconds every 5 to 7 minutes. Seat heaters and heated steering wheel on entire time. I was dressed lightly and got a little cold at highest elevation. I had to stop and DC fast charge about 30 miles before I usually do. Normally on this trip I stop and charge for only 15 minutes. This time I charged for 47 minutes with heater on while charging. Just to be sure I had additional range and could run heater/defroster more frequently during the drive.
Recently we had historic 16 feet of snow in just a few days around Lake Tahoe and highway 50 was jammed with drivers leaving South Lake Tahoe. A ICE driver posted on line that there were 200 EV’s with dead batteries that caused the jam. A reporter interviewed CalTrans, Nevada State Patrol, California Highway Patrol and Nevada Department of Transportation and not one agency new of or responded to an EV with a dead battery. The ICE drivers post was disproven. There were just too many cars overall trying to use the road and trees and wires were down all over the road. It’s funny how ridiculous anti-EV crowd can be, especially when they will all be driving then in 10 years or so.😁
That's the thing: if you're trapped and low on energy, the drivetrain of the vehicle isn't going to be the primary concern! An EV with a low battery will run out much as a gasser with too little in the tank will do the same. The fact that an electric vehicle can generally charge at home or work just makes it less likely that an EV owner will be among the "low fuel" group in the early stages of an emergency.
Great content as always. If everyone had an EV, we also wouldn't have any more carbon monoxide car deaths in winter.
Thanks! Yep, it was sad to read about folks in Texas trying to power their homes from a gas truck and being hospitalized by the fumes last year. Bidirectional charging and V2L technology hold a lot of potential as more cars get that capability and automakers look to offer home energy solutions.
Source?
@@plugandplayEV The recent blizzard got me spooked about power loss. Just before, I bought an auto inverter to plug into the Leaf. I would at least be able to power the fridge. My Ryobi 18V batteries are enough to power devices and my hot water. But, I'd prefer to have the V2L of the Ioniq5.
No but evs would still be catching fire and burning down houses
@@billyturner2396 Fires do happen. But, it's much less than gas cars.
I think in a real emergency you wouldn't need it at 75 degrees. In the winter I always get in the car with a coat so somewhere in the 60s would be fine. I'd leave the seat heater on, the steering wheel heater off and as low a cabin temperature as I could stand. I bet it would last as long as a gas car stopped in a traffic jam.
Totally agree. There are always those who would claim "you had to skimp because it's an EV" though, so I thought it better to err on the side of overly warm for this one. My preference is around 70F max and seat/steering wheel heaters on. With a coat, it would definitely be fine in the 60s as you suggest.
@@plugandplayEV You did ok because it got down to round 15⁰-17⁰ here in Virginia during that snow storm at night. So I'm sure someone if they new about this test and car would had there range temps the same. We have another storm coming so they say this Saturday 15th we'll see what the temperatures will be for this one if we get it.
Lots of variables but yes, into the teens Fahrenheit shouldn't change too much and a decent coat would likely have offset any night temperature decrease.
My Bolt's cabin temp is either on Hi or Low, no in between 😂
When I first started driving in winter, my mom always stressed to keep my tank full. That mindset is so important if a sudden storm hits like the one that stranded so many on the highway. A smart addition would be a battery powered CO (carbon monoxide) detector. I had one I kept in an old sports car I had with a leaky exhaust. If stuck in snow, besure to keep your car's exhaust exit area clear of being covered by snow.
Great tip, thanks for adding.
Nice job. No surprise for EV owners, but a great idea for dispelling myths of ICE drivers. If I were actually in this situation for an indeterminate amount of time I would probably set the cabin temperature much lower and crank up the seat heaters.
Right, there are several more energy-friendly steps we could take here to sip the electrons, rather than cranking up consumption as we did here. Just didn't want to give any room for the "oh you had to skimp because it's an EV" naysayers to dismiss the point!
Thanks for producing this video. I drive a 2020 Bolt also, and have seen the naysayer posts on social media that are mostly done in an absense of actual data (a nice way to say ignorance). I am curious about what appears to be an app on a phone that you are reading data from. Would you tell us more about it or point me to the place to learn about it? Thank you.
Cheers! It's just a drop in the ocean compared to the misinformation, but at least it's data driven and hopefully convinces a few people who might otherwise be on the fence that all they read about EVs isn't accurate.
The app is called Torque for Android and this is the paid version, Torque Pro. It takes data from an OBDII dongle (widely available for $20-30) plugged into the car.
Great cold weather test for EV. What phone app were you using to monitor the energy use, thanks
Thanks! It's called Torque Pro for Android, linked via iCar Pro BLE OBD2 dongle.
I’m thankful for the recent battery replacement at Mirak. Now that extra capacity is welcomed versus being at a reduced state over the past the year.
Glad they came through for you. I realized watching one of the recall updates I did near there that the battery crates were stacked high at the front by the service doors. Hopefully they're cranking them out quickly now, like other dealers we're hearing about, and the 2017-'19 group is cleared by Spring.
Got a great price on a 2019 Bolt in Jan of 2020 and it has been great. We are finally getting more charging stations in the area so we are comfortable going on longer trips. Getting the battery replacement so we now get the full charge is great as well. Sadly we test drove a 2022 and now my wife wants to upgrade already for the additional comfort features.../sigh.
Almost like a new car, congrats! If it helps at all, my wife and I both tested the new Bolt EUV and agreed we didn't see significant improvements to warrant "upgrading". Supercruise might be nice for those who value driver assist tech, but the car is essentially the same EV underneath as older Bolts. When we upgrade, it will be to access items we can't get on a Bolt, such as faster charging and a more spacious cabin/storage area.
I find that in my Bolt, 66 degrees is comfortable in sub freezing temperatures when using heated seat and steering wheel. I try to use the Auto and recycle cabin air too
Good to know, thanks. A natural follow on test would be to explore the optimum settings to conserve energy but stay comfortable. Completely overlooked recirculation on this one, for example.
@@plugandplayEV Thanks for this.
Yes, I was surprised you were not using recirculating mode, as you wouldn’t have CO to worry about.
Our winter kit includes blankets, or sleeping bags, so one could get by with just the seat warmer for the most part, as there is no need to keep the windshield clear of condensation.
I'll heat up my car while it's plugged in, then I'll just use the heated seat while driving. I find that it's more than adequate. If need be, I put a small fleece blanket over my lap. If I really must have the resistive heat on, I set it to 60 F. That's fine with a jacket on.
Thanks for this video ! It is good to know what to expect from EV car in the winter time . As I can see once it's warmed up it is using about 2 kw per hour. I ordered Bolt EUV and I would like to ask you to do some short video of trunk only capacity. Are you able to load trunk dropped floor down with airplane luggage bags upright beside each other ? I just want to know if 4 people traveling to the airport how many luggage bags will fit in the trunk. Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the feedback! Great idea, I'd be happy to do a quick one on trunk capacity. If the bags are carry ons, you can probably do four adult bags without the false floor removed. If it's two adults and two kids, we often do two adult cases and two smaller kid cases in the trunk. I'll see what we have and try a few variations.
@@plugandplayEV thanks waiting for video
Thanks for this!
Cheers, happy to do it!
Very good. What app is on your phone for those numbers
Thanks! Torque for Android is the app. Usually referred to as Torque Pro as many users buy the paid version for $4.99.
Thanks for the awesome video. One thing to consider is that you don't have to worry about carbon monoxide that's generated by the gas engines. I do not believe it's safe to stay in an ICE car with engine running for a day as engine emission into the cabin builds up to dangerous levels.
Right, more and more I look at cars idling in multiple driveways or at drop off on these winter mornings and wonder how it's impacting the kids walking by on their way to school. One is probably insignificant, but the negative effects must add up over hundreds of exposures and elongated waits in densely used areas like a playground.
Thanks for this deep study. I think you have clearly busted this myth... It's also important to note that gasoline cars with would suffer the same risks if caught in a traffic jam on an empty tank.
Thanks, and yes, it's essentially a question of how much energy do you have when the emergency hits and how long can you run that energy until it's gone. Whether it's not having filled up with gas or not charging the EV the night before, starting that emergency with low energy is quickly going to turn into a problem, regardless of fuel type.
Except you can carry spare gas in your car.
@@eugeniaskelley5194 they actually make portable batteries to carry in the truck of your car for topping off. And it doesnt smell up your car.
Thanks for this. What is the smartphone app shown in the video that provides detailed info about state of systems in the Bolt? Is it iOS, Android, or both?
Many thanks!
This app is Torque (Pro edition - $4.99) and it's Android only. For iOS, I think Apple users go with Engine Link. Both are accessed via an OBD II adapter that hooks up to the app.
@@plugandplayEV Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I’ve already got a GPS transponder plugged into my OBD II port. Since for EVs we don’t pay gas taxes at the pump in the state of Oregon, we can pay either higher (rather exorbitant) registration fees or use the OReGo system that assesses Roadway Use Charges (RUC) based on actual miles driven in Oregon as reported by the GPS. The GPS dongle in the OBD II port also inhibits sharing of vehicle data with GM through Onstar. I might have to reconsider paying the higher registration fees; it certainly is in my best interests to have well-maintained roads.
Interesting test. My wife and I were stuck on the M62 (Yorkshire) for a couple of hours just before Christmas with the weather close to freezing in our diesel SUV in a queue caused by a combination of roadworks and an accident. I was thinking at the time that I was glad we weren't in our EV. However your experience suggests it wouldn't have been much of a problem. Thanks!
Glad to hear from my homeland, thanks Graham! There are potentially some older EVs that would struggle, but with most nowadays starting at 50 kWh and above, there's a lot of available energy to (slowly) consume when traffic comes to a standstill.
Until they run out of juice. In combustible engine you can carry spare fuel, or as someone can bring it to you. EV you need a tow truck.
In a pinch, my EV can charge another EV, as can several other models and most new ones which have outlets or bi-directional power. All it would take is an adapter and a charge cable, both of which we keep in our car.
@@eugeniaskelley5194 Okay Nancy
I live in Northern Canada were temps reach -20 C regularly. There are also fewer car chargers (and gas stations) although there is a large range drop below -20 C (30-40%) my EV still performs very well. And as someone also mentioned there is no risk of carbon monoxide when snowed in.
A company called eco flow sells a solar panel and a backup battery kit to charge the EV. I used this once when i had to sleep in my car one night while waiting for a road to open. Once the sun went down I had enough power in the portable battery to reduce the drain on the car battery. Worked perfectly.
Interesting solution thanks. With so many winter suggestions in the comments, there's a video somewhere in here about creating the ideal cold-weather EV kit. All cars can use a winter emergency kit, of course, but the desire to draw heat from the most energy-efficient source in an electric car is something such a kit could perhaps accomplish.
I'm so tired of the "imagine what would happen if everyone had an EV" silliness. Regardless, your video is great information for EV drivers. It is definitely food for thought about what I would do in this situation, and knowing the capabilities of my Bolt will be very helpful. Thank you for doing it, and if you happen to do a colder version, I'm here for it.
Thanks so much! I wish common sense and a little research would do the work for us, but media bubbles and confirmation bias are a powerful combination! Might have to head north for the really cold test... Greater Boston has been a positively balmy 30-40F for most of the winter so far!
Imagine if everybody had an EV. We'd have infrastructure to charge in situations like that. Okay, imagination concluded. Plus, most people's imagination doesn't seem to stretch very far. Are emergency 12-panel solar charging arrays really that far-fetched? I don't think so.
@@jessebrook1688 All it really takes is to look up... electricity lines and lighting everywhere. Sure, it requires upgrades to turn that into EV charge points but it's not as though the tech doesn't already exist. The reality is that all of these FUD tactics are rooted in a desire to slow the transition to electric vehicles, not share legitimate concerns about that transition. All we can do is expose these memes for the farce that they are and try to get that message to folks who are genuinely interested in driving electric but might factor this misinformation into their decision.
@@plugandplayEVWhen electric cars roamed city streets in the early 1900s, the owners would (very dangerously) connect their car to overhead power lines with a lead.
@@jessebrook1688 Some of the buses nearby in Cambridge/Watertown, MA are hooked up to overhead electrical wires for portions of their route... hopefully new EV drivers understand that's not an option for them!
I looked at buying a Bolt recently and was told that because of the battery recall there was no time frame on when I could take possession of a new Bolt.
We're starting to see a case or two of new buyers being told there's a 2022 Bolt EV or EUV they can have, but these are few and far between. Seems to be from the limited run GM did during a brief production restart back in November. Until production resumes again next month, all the battery packs they can make are being allocated to existing Bolts for the recall. If you can hold out, I'd estimate that sales will start flowing again around the start of Q2/spring.
Good info in this video. It would be interesting to see what results the Bolt in Auto mode at 70 degrees with auto defrost on. It most likely would be very close to your test. I figure defrost would be good to have on to keep condensation to a minimum inside the cabin.
My wife has found an initial blast of the auto defogger to clear, followed by fans on light (1 or 2) and only lower-level heat on seems to work well to keep the windscreen clear. Will have to test that in really cold conditions as well, but we've found the auto setting can get a little unpredictable on some trips.
Unless you have it on recirculate the dry air coming in will take care of that.
Very timely video. I was surprised that you didn’t use the AUTO setting and recirculate.
Why did it take so long for the miles/kWh to update; Is this different on the 2020 models .vs. 2017?
Just an oversight on my part. Slightly ad hoc test (hence not resetting the energy use to 0) but I'll us recirc on the colder temp test for sure.
The mi/kWh did decrease slowly but this was almost 300 miles since the last reset, so the relative impact of slowly drawing out via just heating was slower to register than it would be within the first 50-100 miles.
@@plugandplayEV Oh, thank you for that info. I hadn’t paid attention to the 300+ miles since reset. While waiting for my replacement battery I’ve been charging and resetting after short trips (30-40miles) to conform to the guidelines, so if I sit with the car turned on, in cold weather with heat on for 30mins to an hour , I see larger average consumption changes. Thanks for the clarification. 👍🏽
No problem! It's actually one of my nitpicks with the Bolt. I'd like to be able to reset manually, or have separate trip meters to monitor different segments. Minor but quite a handy feature if you're tracking metrics like this on a regular basis.
A lot of people don't realize how much energy is stored in these batteries. The average US home uses around 30kWh *per day*. Modern EV's usually have capacities over 60kWh. It doesn't take much math to realize that an EV could easily survive a winter storm traffic jam.
Very true. To be fair, we never paid much attention to our electricity bill beyond the total $$ amount before driving an EV.
Researching new models quickly encourages a familiarity with kWh, given it's a prominent spec related to range, and it's not far down that rabbit hole that new buyers learn about charging power levels and how their home electricity rates translate to "filling the tank". Once you have those pieces clear, it's just about doing the math, as you say.
Same here, 2017 Leaf (heat pump) keeps it all warm (69F) at about 500W. Days.
Thanks, it's great to have these reports from slightly older EVs, as the newer models have larger packs and should fare as well or much better. If a five year old Bolt/Leaf can cut it for days, we're in good shape ⚡👍
What I'm wondering is, with it plugged in, can you keep the heater on overnight or turn it on an hour before you're going anywhere so it's defrosted an warm by the time you leave?
Can you schedule it coming on or do it through an app on your phone?
Yes, you can schedule a departure time and set climate controls to start in various ways. For the Bolt, we did it through Alexa about 20 mins before leaving in winter.
As far as keeping it on overnight, some EVs have a "camp" or "utility" mode that allows them to stay on for many hours at a time. The Bolt wasn't one of them and would typically turn off after an hour in park, although there was a workaround to extend that period, if I recall correctly.
You read my mind. I normally heat my home at 67-69 degrees Fahrenheit. I wear a coat in the winter when driving and like many people in the upper Midwest region of the United States try to carry a blanket etc. Stranded on the highway not knowing how long I might be there I'd set the temperature of the car to make up what my clothing didn't, perhaps somewhere in the 50's or low 60's. A 25 degree difference over the setting you had might not matter If the temperatures were in the teens. Still I'd guess it might make a big difference if the outside cold was merely at 32 or so...
Right, I think a natural follow-on test would happen in colder temps, with the focus on the most energy efficient settings for elongated idle time. In this case I didn't want to give any fodder for the "see? you always have to skimp on heat in an EV" detractors, so erred on the side of cranking it up rather than down. Like you, I'd be okay in the high sixties and would certainly carry warmer accessories in case of cold weather delays.
In the Midwest out on the open road things are going to be much different than parked next your home sheltered.
When it is 30 degrees with a 30 mile an hour wind blowing across your vehicle things are a whole lot different if you are sitting stationary on the road. You will be forced to get out and clear snow off of or around your vehicle because the snow will be blowing and forming drifts.
Most of the time people are trying to crawl forward if possible. If the road is shutdown they are trying to find an alternate route around the road closing. What happens when you have to travel miles out of your way just to detour around? It happens.
I was driving across Nebraska 1 winter in a 1 ton extended cargo van heading West years ago. I was on I 80 going West through Iowa on My way to Colorado and had just got into Omaha.
Luckily I had decided to stop and grab a bite to eat at a Local Truck stop and decided to stop and fuel up in Omaha instead of Lincoln that was around 70 miles farther West.
A Blizzard came up or kicked in and it started out with freezing Drizzle First while we were eating.
Farther West of Omaha it had already changed from ice to snow and started blowing.
We thought we could get keep going and get through it with no problem. We were wrong because in the area between Omaha and Lincoln things went to crap in less than a half hour from the time we started driving.
We soon found out that traffic dropped to a crawl of about 35 miles an hour and cars were spinning out all over the place from the ice, snow and wind. I watched a car be pushed sideways across 2 lanes and into the median. I immediately stuck 2 wheels off of the shoulder onto the grass and kept creeping along.
2 hours later we drove the 60 miles to the edge of Lincoln to an off ramp at Waverly Nebraska. They had closed off the interstate in front and behind us. We had to get off at that point and head back toward where we came from on a secondary road or old HWY 6 and head back toward Omaha and the truck stop we had just left. There were no Hotels that we could check into because of the storm.
There were no gas stations open because it was late and the couple mom and pop stations in the small towns were closed. We barely made it back to Omaha only because I had filled up the tank before leaving Omaha.
We had to fill up the gas tank and idle the van and sleep in the parking lot of the truck stop. We slept in shifts of 4 hours just to make sure that we would not run out of gas. We did not need to refill the tank for almost 8 hours of idling to keep warm.
If that was a BEV we would have been screwed. That was a long time ago and to this day there are no good places to recharge an EV and I seriously doubt most would have the range to do it.
The other issue is the amount of time it takes to recharge even at a DC fast charger.
Can you imagine the lines of vehicles trying to get into and recharge if everyone there had an EV.
I had to wait almost an hour in line that night to refuel with all of those vehicles ahead of me filling up in 8 to 10 minutes each.
Granted this is a worse case scenario but it does happen in the real world. Mother nature does not give a rip about us or our feelings.
If someone in area gives you advice about their issues or if something won't work , listen to them.
If you go to Alaska going into Winter and someone tells you I wouldn't do it, pay attention to what they are telling you.
If someone in the Midwest tells you if I were you I would not do it or if you do you are going to be sorry listen to them.
Thank God that night I took the advice of a friendly older trucker we struck up a conversation with.
He said weathers moving in and it is a long ways to Lincoln if it catches you.
He said if I were you boys I would fill up here before you head out because it might be your last chance to do it and you might not make it to Lincoln. I chuckled a bit but took his advice and topped off our tank before leaving the truck stop.
In some areas it can be the difference between life and death, don't gamble with it because you might lose.
Your warnings and cold weather prep are valuable and well-taken, but it's important to remember that EVs operate far more efficiently than combustion at lower speed. So a few scenarios to consider:
1) If you're stopped in freezing conditions for a long time, this test is representative. An EV just sitting uses only a small amount of energy to maintain heat, maybe 1-2kW draw on packs that are often 70kWh+ these days, so even a half-charged EV could heat for days if caught out.
2) If the traffic is moving slowly, only a little more energy than scenario 1 is required, and when the EV slows down around 60-70% of that energy is recouped by regenerative braking. An EV's range almost doubles in 20-30mph traffic, meaning again even a half-charged EV would have range in the 100s at lower speeds.
3) If traffic gets moving again and/or you find a longer detour route, the driver still controls their speed. Again, scenario 2 can play out here by taking the slower roads and reaching home/destination/charge station. Electricity is everywhere and we carry portable charge cords that plug into regular 110V outlets. In a true low charge emergency, any kindly soul with an outlet can help. Or a friendly EV driver in a model like ours, which is capable of charging other EVs.
Finally, remember that EVs typically charge overnight at home, meaning most owners leave home with 80% charge or more. In winter, most will probably go to 90% or full to have a buffer. So it's quite a scenario that has an EV driver leaving fully charged, depleting their battery over several hours of driving, and getting caught a long way from a charging station in unexpected weather and nowhere to go. As with a gas car or any poorly planned trip, this would be a case of fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
@@plugandplayEV The only Caveat I have is that in the Midwest wind is a factor. Most people in The Midwest drive Teslas and Chevy Volts. I drove a Volt. When it comes to winter range the Tesla is king. It makes use of a HeatPump for heating which is more efficient and it is very slippery in the wind. A friend of mine drives a Tesla and I don't have a volt now.
The Chevy Volt is a good car but my Leaf was more efficient but it just did not have the range for long distance travel.
The wind is a huge factor and will drop your range the harder it blows. I do agree that an EV would just sip power at 35 mph on a calm day.
Now change that to a constant 30 mile an hour wind gusting to 60mph and drive 35 mph. It is a huge difference and driving through snow drops your range more. I know I have done it for years.
My advice in the winter is to make sure you are fully charged before heading out and get an Eco flow power supply and the extra battery and throw it in the trunk, backseat or wherever.
If you leave the city and head into rural areas it could be a good bit of insurance and carry winter supplies in your car including a shovel and tow strap so someone can help get you out.
Most new cars have little ground clearance.😁
Range estimators are part of this problem, most of them are terrible they give an instantaneous reading when you turn on heat or AC, they do more harm than good. Watch your battery percentage.
Very cool, I was curious how much it would pull with heating only. Does the cabin heat up pretty quickly compared to an ICE car?
It's been a while since we had a regular combustion daily driver... almost two decades now, in fact! But yes, all EVs I've tested warm up quickly. The Bolt has some quirks around 70F where its auto settings don't always get the temp right, but if you crank it up to HI heat you'll have a hot cabin within a few minutes.
The other thing to note is that most EV owners will remote start the car to "precondition" the cabin, especially if they're plugging in. That draws the energy from the home/grid, rather than the car's battery, so you jump into a hot car with no loss of range until you unplug + drive away.
@@plugandplayEV Thanks for the great information, we are looking at a Bolt EUV and were just curious how quick it would warm up in the Ohio winter climate. I will have to do that preconditioning would make getting in the car a lot easier in the winter.
Thanks! I can't tag here but you can look for Everyday EV here on TH-cam. Brandon the channel creator lives in Cleveland, OH and has a 2019 Bolt EV... EUV should be similar in winter.
Fun fact. The Chevy Volts will run the gas engine to help heat the car when it's cold. You can turn this as low as 15F but it will happen. Wish I could turn it off altogether because this mode doesn't hold the temperature as well as all electric, or hybrid-gas mode. My daily commute is so short that even with the battery drain on our smaller batteries, I wouldn't need to burn that gas.
It's also interesting (with a smart charger) to see the cars pull power to keep the battery from getting too cold overnight, even when it's fully charged. In my garage right now, it's pulling about .15kW - .20kW every 75 minutes or so.
Interesting to note how that mixed system manages heat. We briefly used a 2012 Volt as our daily driver through one winter but it would only run gas mode at a certain frozen temp. Don't recall the details and didn't test at the time, but I'm assuming we missed a setting or the newer model years just handled it better?
@@plugandplayEV it would run the gas engine, when it was more efficient than the battery. Mine would do it at 28°F or lower. At that temperature waste heat from the engine suddenly became a valuable resource (to heat the cabin) thus raising the thermal efficiency of the engine from 32% to 60-80% as the normal 68% waste heat could now be employed to heat the cabin.
Hoping to try
Let us know how you get on!
Thanks for this. It was well done and very interesting.
During the test, it appeared that the HVAC system was set to Recirculate most of the time. In a "Virginia" situation I'd be concerned about running out of oxygen. Do you have any idea if the HVAC system is designed to have a small amount of fresh air coming in when set to recirculate?
Thanks! It was actually recirculate turned off, which others have suggested would be a better option for both energy saving and avoiding pulling in what would presumably be quite CO-heavy air outside. In any case, I overlooked that setting on this occasion so wasn't really thinking about preferences in either direction.
@@plugandplayEV Respectfully, I think this is an important issue worthy of a retest.
Absolutely, feedback is always appreciated and this one came up a few times. Time and work permitting, I'll block out an afternoon for an adjusted test.
@@plugandplayEV Great!
Cars are not air tight like a submarine or space shuttle. Air will find a way to diffuse and balance from outside to inside. Unless you are in a tunnel with an extreme amount of exhaust this would not deplete your oxygen.
If you own an electric car all your energy should come from solar, wind, and hydro.
Ideally, that would be the goal yes.
Thanks. Here the ambient tonight will be minus 28 Celsius. It would be interesting to see your test conducted under those conditions.
-22 c on my way to work tonight in Quebec and i was consuming 2 kw to keep the car at 22 c.
Yeah, it would be good to do but we rarely get that low around suburban Boston. This week will dip down briefly to -15C but even that will only be in the wee hours. Daytime is closer to the realm of -5C and what you see here, so we'd probably need to travel up to Maine or New Hampshire to get more reliably cold conditions.
Useful data point, thanks Philippe.
I charged my 2020 Bolt to 90% before driving 110 miles. When I started it was -20F. The first 65 miles were at 70mph with the heat on low. Periodically I had to put the defroster on max. The last 45 miles were at 50mph and the temperature at the terminus was -8F. I only had 15 mile range left.
It is interesting to look how differently each brand of BEVs behaves in cold weather. I have seen that Teslas try to keep their battery at a certain temperature even while unused in cold weather and since I don't have one, I also ignore if it is a user selectable function or if it just does that while plugged (my parking neighbour has a Model 3 almost always plugged on 120V and I when I approach it I hear its fans quite often any time of day. For what I know and observed, my VW ID.4 leaves the battery get cold, plugged or unplugged, and just raise it at 8°C while operating and it does not complain about any power limitation when leaving (unfortunately, this "cold blood" attitude makes it to charge slower on fast charging stations). Also here in Canada, our ID.4s are equipped with heat pumps, which reduces greatly heating energy consumption, however not of great advantage in very low temperatures where heat pumps perform less and resistive heating needs to kick in.
Guess they need to install a little decaying radioactive isotope heater. See the movie 'The Martian' ..LOL!
If our next EV doesn't have an RTG heater and SS battery with 1k miles per charge, we're out!
Thanks for the test. That is useful information.
A few thoughts. There humans in the car will also provide some heat. I usually run about 68F, so my rate would be slower to begin with. If I were stuck on a road, I would likely lower the temp once it looked like there might be an extended wait. I know the power needed for the steering wheel is small relative to everything else, but I would turn that off until I was ready to drive again.
I also realize that using all the heat and at a higher setting just demonstrates how much cushion there actually is with an EV.
Hello, what's your charge rate in the colder weather?
In a 2020 and fast charging a cold pack, we'll typically see a starting rate of 30kW. Best bet on a trip is to start full, precondition the car from the wall a couple of times, then drive for as long as comfort allows before fast charging.
Unless it's way below freezing outside, the pack should be warm enough to get closer to 40-50kW if you fast charge on a capable station after driving.
I have a Bolt as well.I assume I would warm it up and then turn off the heat and just use the heated seat and the heated steering while until things start to get cold--but maybe your approach is better. 1 or 2 KwH is not much consumption.
I often err towards your approach but my family prefers the heat, so yes it's heavily dependent on personal preference. In this case, it was aimed at the FUD around EVs and we didn't want to leave any room for criticism that "xx temp is too low, EVs can't heat up!" Seems daft but we know those people are out there!
Can you tell me what app you are using to get your battery info? thanks
Sure, it's Torque Pro for Android, hooked up via the iCar Pro OBDII dongle.
@@plugandplayEV I have an iPhone, any recommendations for an iPhone so I can get the info you get on the Torque Pro? thanks
@@Flying-4-Fun I've heard Bolt owners with Apple devices using an app called Engine Link, which should deliver the same data points. Car Scanner is another, although I haven't tried it personally.
People who live in cold country usually take precautions like extra warm clothing blankets etc.
We don't like our tanks bellow half though some are ok with 1/5.
People who own EVs would probably be doing the same thing.
Its always better to have something and not need it then need it and not have it.
Absolutely right Tony 👍 These scenarios tend to be much worse when they happen in areas that aren't used to the conditions, as we saw with Texas last winter. And in general, EV owners like to stay well above 50%, usually much closer to 80-90% state of charge in daily use, so in most cases we'd be talking about depleting a battery with lots of energy available. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail!
My cabin temp is never set as high as you have. I keep it at 21.5 Celsius and fan speed on 1 and I am never cold in my car (my house is around 21.5 as well (21.5 = 71 Fah)
Our go-to in the car is typically 70-72F. If I recall correctly, I wanted to use higher temps in the test as a rebuttal to naysayers claiming EV drivers would have to skimp on heat to conserve energy.
Good reason to keep the battery full and the those trucks if they have kept the tanks full can keep the diesel heater, not the engine running for about two weeks. Modern rigs use just over a half a gallon to run the engine per hour. Wonder how my Ioniq 5 will do on the test…
Yep. Did you get the heat pump? Can't recall which versions of the Ioniq 5 got that in the US but it would be interesting to compare the impact with and without.
@@plugandplayEV yes the AWD has the heat pump but I’m very disappointed with the range in these cold winter days. The heated seats are much better than the bolts. It has climate start on the app and the car gets toasty warm vey fast.
Good job!
Cheers!
Great video. I just want to add that using the heater during driving. You will suffer a range loss. I started with 90 % battery (2017) and drove around 115 miles. Some stops during this distance. I calculate approx 1 hr to 90 min. Mixed speeds but no freeway. When I got home I had 60 miles remaining.
Outside temp around 52 deg F. Inside setting 72 deg F. No LRR tires.
Edited: one weird thing though. I did the same the day after, not that many miles but otherwise same condition. I had the heater turned off. Everything was as I expected it to be. Then I changed it to 74 deg F. Still with heater turned off. Then after a while the bolt decided to give me some bursts of cabin heat. On 2 occasions this happened during that trip. I could see the increase to 6 kw on the dash. After about a minute it went back to normal energy usage. I double checked that the heater was in off mode but fan was on setting 2. This phenomenon only happens with temp in 74 setting. I have not tried higher but in 72 it does not happen.
Maybe some other bolt owners have experienced something similar.
This is probably caused by auto-defog setting which can be turned off in the vehicle settings.
@@CSEV661 Never seen that setting but I will look for it. Thanks
Driving certainly changes the range dynamics in winter, but this test is really only aimed at energy consumption when there's a standstill. While driving in cold weather, heat pumps and battery conditioning can help to mitigate range losses/improve charging times, but that's undeniably not a strength of EVs at this stage.
What was the app you used on your phone to show the battery outputs.?
It's called Torque for Android. This version is Torque Pro, which was a one time fee of $4.99 when we got it.
@@plugandplayEV is it available for iPhone
Unfortunately not. I've noticed most Apple users with a Bolt use an app called Engine Link.
Snow tends to fall when the temp is between maybe 20-35F. I think this is a very reasonable temp for this test.
Right. There is certainly a scenario where snow falls at that temp, then temperatures plunge with cars stuck, but the same parameters will apply as used in this test. EV will already be warm and only using minimal energy to top off the heat.
Ford advertises that the F-150 Lightning will be able to power a modest home for several days in the event of a power failure, but some people believe that same truck can't even keep it's cabin warm for a few hours in the snow? 😆
Another argument I'd heard was that if a gas car runs out of gas a tow driver can just bring a gallon and get them on their way. Fair argument, but as Kyle Connor showed in a recent video you can tow charge an EV very quickly. Assuming that the Bolt can regen about 60 kW (more or less) if you get a truck to pull it at 20 MPH you'd regen about 10-15 miles of range for every mile driven. Not as easy as a gas can, but just about any pickup or SUV with a tow package could do it.
Great point, I should add tow charging to the list, thanks! Also:
-- Mobile charge solutions like Sparkcharge
-- Bidirectional charging EVs, like V2L on Kia-Hyundai models + whatever VW
-- Any EV with an outlet, like the Rivian + other new electric trucks recently announced (Silverado EV will have 10kW+ of total power output... trickle charge multiple EVs at a time?!)
-- Any generator option powerful enough to add 10-15 miles range, as you said.
It's really all about access in an emergency and any car in a jam without enough fuel/juice is going to need a solution to come to them. Actually pretty exciting when you consider all the potential applications of pulling energy *out of* a massive battery on wheels!
@@plugandplayEV Sparkcharge is a good concept, but you make a good point that it's probably better to just tie the charger to a large EV battery. Imagine instead something like a Hummer with a 200 kWh battery and build in a 100 kW CCS system. It could pull up to a stranded EV, plug in for a few minutes and add 10 kWh to their battery and move along. Could easily do that 10-15 times along a stretch of highway before needing to recharge somewhere. Add in V2V capabilities and any EV owner could help out any other EV owner get a few miles of range. Much easier and safer than trying to transfer gas from one car's tank to another (if anyone even tries something like that).
In upstate NY, AAA bought Sparkcharger units for their mobile emergency trucks. Will probably see AAA add more such untis as more customers purchase Evs.
Proudly manufactured in Buffalo, NY, if I recall correctly? Have doubts about their subscription service but hope they figure out several deployments and do well.
Also it’s dark now the headlights would be on ?
If I'm in a traffic jam not moving for hours, I'm definitely turning off the lights! Maybe hazards on? Don't know what most people chose to do in Virginia.
Thank you
Thanks for watching and commenting, much appreciated.
I rarely use my resistive heater in the Tesla. I just use the seat heater on low and I have a small fleece blanket that I can put on my lap if needed. My battery would last for days.
I think that's good for some of us, but once there are a few folks in the car the heater is usually required. In an emergency though, you'd think most would revert to energy saving and have a blanket on hand to heat individuals, along with the seat heater.
@@plugandplayEVI would hope that in winter conditions, there would be a blanket in the car for every passenger, and at least in the Bolt EV Premier trim, all four seating positions have a seat heater. The middle passenger in the back, if you have one, does not. With five possible people in the car, and all the seat heaters on, I bet the car would last quite a long time.
@@SweetBearCub Absolutely. The Bolt EV is a nice size inside for the vehicle class, but five folks will definitely be snuggled up to each other... I think the heat will be sufficient in that scenario, even if the space/comfort suffers! This also reminds me of the need to do a winter prep kit video, thanks.
Yours is a 2020, correct? If you are charged to 100%, how much range do you have fully. I’m interested in overall battery degradation.
Yes, it's a 2020. Range in miles varies a lot by season, speed and terrain as you know, but we typically see 220 miles on a charge at highway speeds in non-winter conditions, then closer to 280-290 miles around town. We haven't charged to 100% for many months now due to the recall guidance, but haven't seen any obvious degradation so far after two years in the car.
@@plugandplayEV awesome. Thank you for the heads up. It is much appreciated.
Any time!
Curious what the energy pull would be using a plug in electric blanket.
Should be minimal. 12V x 4-5 amps reported on some products would only hit 50 watts.
My electric jacket uses much less than 50 watts. You could last for days.
Real opportunity here for winter accessories companies to sell some gear!
Also, if it’s in a garage, such as if you have an extended power outage at home, it’ll won’t have to heat up as much, so the time will be longer. (That’s not the scenario you’re addressing here, but related.)
Plus, if you set it to, 65 degrees instead of 72, it’ll last longer too.
Thanks. Yes, many scenarios and the consumption could easily be improved here with a number of extra steps that a lot of drivers would take in regular winter driving and/or an extended delay. More testing to come, if we get the right temperatures and can squeeze it in.
That would be great for people who have garages to put a car in. What about major cities. Most people use their garages for storage.
@@eugeniaskelley5194, all you ultimately need is sufficient proximity to a electric outlet billed to your electric bill. So, that could be in your driveway rather than your garage, for example.
I personally find my car to be one of the most important things to have a storage place, so I put in the garage first, and then other stuff second, but perhaps that’s just me.
I think that Tesla, Electrify America/Canada, and various Government programs around the world, put a little too much emphasis on expensive DC fast charging for road-trips, and not enough on cheap, low-speed AC charging for apartment/condominium developers. Both are important!
How are you getting the statistics on your phone?
It's an Android-only app called Torque Pro, which accesses the data via a $30 OBD II adapter plugged into the car. Apple owners use an app called Engine Link, which I believe does much the same.
@@plugandplayEV Thank you! I appreciate your content.
if you in the middle of nowhere. you can ask someone to bring you a gas but can you ask for ev charger or do they make portable EV charger?
Yes, a company called SparkCharge had portable charge units that would add enough miles in 30 minutes to get to a nearby charger. AAA have also added the service in select areas, although it hasn't been used much as far as we've seen.
Beyond that, there are now models of EV that can charge others right from their own pack (V2L/bidirectional charging).
Somewhat helpful. What happens when you have 6 inches of snow on the ground and have to climb a 650 foot mountain? This is what we face in New England and many in NE have to climb mountains in the snow (half in my town live on the mountain - about 9000 people). One of my neighbors owns a Chevy Bolt and when it snows, they just use their gas car - the electric car has no hope getting them home. I wish someone would test one of these under much more severe conditions like we face in New England. So far no one has posted that where you need snow tires to get home not the high efficiency tires all these cars come with. As a result own a Subaru AWD with all weather tires (rated for snow).
Remember this test is aimed at the criticism that electric cars will die in a freezing traffic jam, rather than assessing winter driving capability.
There are certainly some scenarios in which I wouldn't recommend a Bolt specifically, as it has no AWD version and remote winter driving could be a challenge. This just wasn't a video aimed at that topic, though your points are valuable and well noted.
Your concern has nothing to do with the car being electric. Your concern relates to snow traction, which has more to do with which wheels are driven and what tires are used. Many EVs are now available with AWD and their AWD systems are superior to most if not all ICE AWD systems because they can be completely independently controlled front and rear. Some EVs that use hub motors can drive individual wheels independently.
For what its worth, I just got back from a 900 mile road trip in my Chevy Bolt driving almost entirely through freezing or sub-freezing temperatures. This also included driving over a completely snow-covered and iced-over 5,000 ft mountain pass. The car was riding on Bridgestone Blizzak WS90 winter tires. Aside from having to slow down, as did everyone else, I had absolutely zero issues. I even took a detour to a lodge in the mountains, which required climbing about 1,500 feet over the course of 3-4 miles (in heavy snow) and had no problem driving through an unplowed parking lot (where, ironically, a Subaru got stuck).
If you want to check out someone testing EVs in Nordic winter conditions (i.e. actually in Norway) check out Bjorn Nyland on TH-cam. If you want to hate on EVs, do it for a valid reason.
@@plugandplayEV Thank you for your reply. Completely understand. FWD cars (gas and electric with snow tires) get stuck trying to climb our mountain with snow on the ground with snow tires, so it is known you don't try that around here. If the roads are clear of ice and snow, that is a different matter.
@@ouch1011 Actually, it has everything to do with the drivetrain chosen. My comment is not only about electric cars in my town on our mountain, it applies to gas cars as well. When I moved here, I had a FWD Honda Accord and Saab 9-3 with snow tires. Neither could get me home with 6 inches of snow on the road, which happens frequently (just happened again last Friday). I was forced when those two cars wore out to get AWD as you suggest with snow tires. While it may be easy for you to buy a Tesla with AWD costing well north of $50,000, many don't or cannot pay that much for a car. An AWD Subaru starts a little less than half that amount. Why it is so popular on our mountain especially in the winter - with snow tires. I don't hate electric vehicles as you insinuate. I am just limited right now by our geography and the cold weather along with the snow on the roads. Nothing more - nothing less. You seem particularly angry when I state something that is factual.
good vid.
Thanks! We'll be making an updated version with our Ioniq 5 this winter when the temps drop 🥶
nice.@@plugandplayEV
Would it not be better to sweep all the snow off the car? Expending heat to melt the snow on the windshield. I understand it's not a lot, but every little bit helps.
Yes, I think any energy saving option in cold weather is smart and worth considering. For most, this should just be plugged in and doing all the conditioning/melting from the grid anyway.
In this test, I didn't want to give much leeway to folks saying we had to make special exceptions for an EV, so we started 2/3 charged, preconditioned from the car's energy, and left climate settings at more than comfortable temps (we'd usually go with 70F and certainly lower than that in an emergency scenario of unknown duration).
Even with those inefficiencies, the Bolt EV would be fine for the same amount again and still have enough juice to comfortably reach a charge station.
The heat that is melting snow is already heat that has left the cabin. Also, any snow on the car will be insulation reducing the rate of heat loss.
Not that it would likely make a big difference, i think i would have the hazard lights going in a stalled traffic situation on the freeway
That makes sense, though as you say that energy draw would be minimal. Headlights and cabin lighting would be another factor to consider in a long delay.
You should of put the car on automatic heat. It would of used a bit less than having the blower constantly blowing. Either way still a nice test for all to see.
We've found the Bolt's auto heat a bit flaky over the years, sometimes blowing cold when you'd expect heat. Could just be at the start and we haven't given it a fair shake, but our habit now is to adjust manually. If we manage future tests, we'll definitely give it a go with auto though, cheers 👍
Is there a reason why the Battery Capacity PID did not display?
This was set up for our old 2017 Bolt and it could be an old PID. Will check, thanks.
@@plugandplayEV I thought that might be the case. Before you turned in your 2017 BOLT EV , did you check the capacity of that battery? I can't remember if you checked capacity in any of your videos.
Thanks!
@@cwilsonpa The last reading I can recall was January 2020 when we got the new lease (2017 was due back in the spring). The 2017 had 59.4 kWh on the Bat Capacity PID at that point, around 30,000 miles on the clock.
@@plugandplayEV Interesting, I checked my 2017 BOLT yesterday and it was a shocking a 51.8kWh. The temp was 23degF. I will check it again on a day when it is 50degF or better (if that matters). I wish I checked it when it was new. Most of my charging has been at home on Level 2 , with less than 10-15 total DC Fast charges in 37000 miles. I wanted to check the battery before my upcoming battery replacement , which should be in the next couple of weeks. I will check the replacement battery early on to have a baseline to. Next I'll display all my cell groups to see if any are low. Thanks again.
@@cwilsonpa Sure thing. I should have logged that one a bit more judiciously over the years but I do remember the 2017 often being slightly above 60 kWh and questioning the results.
On the final long trip we did with the 2017 at 32k miles, we were able to go 192 miles on 55kWh and roughly 15 miles left on the GOM, which would make the 59 kWh reading pretty accurate and not bad at all, given our DCFC use on longer trips.
Thanks man! Please tell me you didn't actually SIT all that time in your car...?!?
No no, just popped in and out from the (warm) house! I did do a full hour in the middle there though, to see how if would feel if stuck. Perfectly warm, no worries at all.
I usually only use seat heaters and wheel heaters. Unless I have to the heat stays off unless its brutally cold. Or theres another needy human in the car thats "cold" lol
Ha, yes, my wife and kids often have the temerity to ask for real heat... the cheek!
Fine if you are stranded but does any manufacturer use the battery cooling system when moving to capture waste heat without depleteing the battery for reasons other than range? I see Nissan have a heat pump system claiming less power consumption. However, the same article suggested most internal combustion engines use exhaust gas heat to heat the cabin. The best known of these rarities is the VW air cooled bettle. In reality most use heat from the liquid coolant used to control engine temperature within the block and cylinder head. I am happy to have motorists accuse me of nit picking but not authors that are supposed to represent a manufacturer.
So if the car were to become immobile and have to be left on the road with a completely dead battery is that harmful to the car ?
It's not something you want to do as a rule, but there's buffer at either end of the pack to allow some protection. Batteries in general don't want to be left at 0% or 100% for extended periods of time.
Please make a trial with a 5 years old battery to see if it works as good
Interesting suggestion, though the only real difference would be available battery capacity to draw from. So a battery might have degraded 10% in that period, which for a Bolt EV would leave around 55-58 kWh remaining. It would be a similar power draw and outcome, just drawing from a smaller pool of energy.
why are you not clicking on center to reuse air inside car instead pulling outside air, heats faster ,and uses less power to maintain heat
Because I screwed up and got Dad brain while the kids nagged me to go sledding... on the list for next test (when kids are asleep or in school!)
It’s sort of the same thing as people at home running their heater. If you want to wear shorts and a tank top during the winter time, you have to keep the heater cranked up especially when it’s below freezing. If you get smart and put on some layers, you don’t need to supplement with heat as much. Apply the same logic to when you’re driving an EV. If it’s really cold outside, just run your defroster on low and wear some layers. You will preserve more driving range and be ready to hop out in the cold when you’re done with your drive. Problem solved
Thermal undies and layers are where it's at for winter range. But then there was always that one kid at school who wore shorts on a snow day, so I guess we have to cater to everyone!
Consider a PHEV like Prius Prime.
Much better concept, especially in the winter.
Loses most of the benefits of an all-electric platform. We've no need for the gas component any longer (haven't done since 2017), but did briefly use a Chevy Volt as our stepping stone to all-electric. If others can use a PHEV to drive electric most of them time, definitely an option.
Are you driving during this test?
No sir, just a basic test of the heater energy consumption. We've done several winter road trips though, if you have questions re. driving consumption.
Doubtful any of the naysayers would watch this and be able to make any sense of it imo. They're all lost in misinformation/bias anyway. Good debunking video none the less. The real truth is a gas car will burn at least half a gallon an hour idling and won't give you any heat if off. An ev however doesn't really idle and you could very likely survive for days maybe well over a week off just using the seat heater with occasional cabin heater, if the seat wasn't enough. Of course that said food and water will be your real problem at much beyond a day.
Hopefully this reaches some people in the middle, or those with mild doubts, who read the misinformed "opinion" pieces and wonder how accurate they are. Agree that those with an anti-EV mindset are usually too far gone and only want to see content that confirms their biases, so there's no real expectation that facts will change the picture there. Thanks for the perspective 👍
How would an ICE car fare in a similar test?
Similar results, I'd imagine, depending on how much was in the tank at the time of stopping. Combustion is a less efficient process than battery electric in terms of converting fuel to power, but is more energy dense than a battery pack (33.7 kWh per gallon vs. 60-100kWh total in most current EV battery packs).
Some folks ran out of gas in the Virginia freeze up but presumably they were already low. Avoiding the fumes of thousands of idling engines would be a win in itself though.
If it were me stranded, I would be wearing my jacket. The heated seats would be off as well as the steering wheel. Also, I would have the heat at 60-62.
That's the tricky thing with these tests: they're heavily subject to personal preference and only a few can realistically be replicated, due to the time and changing weather.
We deliberately erred on the side of keeping it more warm than necessary on this one so that there's no room for "oh you still had to skimp on heat because it's an EV". Hopefully the Virginia event prompts more drivers to stock up the car with a warm jacket + gloves, a blanket, and other provisions suited to an elongated jam in freezing weather.
@@plugandplayEV Yes, everyone should have a winter kit for their car...you never know. I also like that you ran the test in your Bolt. We plan to buy an EUV when they are available for sale again.
I Will not be afraid in my BMW I3s whit 33 kWt battery
i3 is still on my bucket list, even after all these years. Bit of an early icon at this point 🙌
No heat pump for an EV is a deal breaker.