Round 4: "Is Intel Actually Screwed?" ft. Gordon of PC World
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- Sponsor: Deepcool AK620 Zero Dark on Amazon geni.us/apRI9Q
Steve and Gordon talk about Intel's Arc positioning, whether Intel will kill Arc, how people keep buying NVIDIA, and how AMD factors into all of this. The topic was filmed after the AMD RX 7600 and NVIDIA RTX 4060 Ti launches, and happened to line-up exactly with an Intel price drop on the A750 Arc GPUs. This is meant to be a fun discussion and follows-up on our long-running series entitled "Is Intel Screwed?" where Gordon & Steve discuss Intel's position. This originally came about because of Ryzen's launch.
Check out the @pcworld video here! • Has Leak Culture Gone ...
Round 1: (CPUs) Is Intel Actually Screwed? • "Is Intel Actually Scr...
Round 2: (CPUs) Is Intel Actually Screwed? • Round 2: "Is Intel Act...
Round 3: (GPUs & CPUs) Is Intel Actually Screwed? • Round 3: "Is Intel Act...
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Gordon Rants
01:58 - Is Intel Screwed? Pt. 4
03:28 - Intel Competitive Price Drops
07:07 - What About AMD's RX 7600?
09:16 - Gordon Rants Again
13:02 - Does Intel Need a High-End Option?
16:35 - Steve's Fear of AMD x Intel Meme Marketing
20:54 - Gordon Rants Even More Again
22:50 - Is Intel Going to Kill Arc?
25:54 - Blooper
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Host: Steve Burke
Co-Host: Gordon Mah Ung (PC World)
Video: Vitalii Makhnovets - เกม
![ทททททททท #27 [หลุยส์ เค โตมายังไง ณ สระบุรี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CaKoYw_Xmtg/mqdefault.jpg)
We shot a video with Gordon on PC World also! Talks about Leak Culture: th-cam.com/video/2q1wT2-THVI/w-d-xo.html
Check out our engineering interview with Noctua! th-cam.com/video/82LZkglNiQ0/w-d-xo.html
Round 1: (CPUs) Is Intel Actually Screwed? th-cam.com/video/A98J1om9eBI/w-d-xo.html
Round 2: (CPUs) Is Intel Actually Screwed? th-cam.com/video/A5hv5rnavzQ/w-d-xo.html
Round 3: (GPUs & CPUs) Is Intel Actually Screwed? th-cam.com/video/OX79nEdyzrc/w-d-xo.html
tech tubers "maintaining neutrality" is WHY WE HAVE NOW X3-4 TIMES OVERPRICED GPUs when compared to pre-mining in 2016.
you should rip ngreedia/ayyymd/untel new ones for their prices instead of "maintaining neutrality".
you should CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT GPUs being overpriced X3-4 TIMES instead of reviewing them. stop making basicaly ads for overpriced crap.
then general consumers might have a chance of knowing what crap they are wasting their money on.
instead you're like "hurr-durr people are buying ngreedia". OF COURSE THEY ARE BECAUSE EVEN YOU ARE MAKING ADS FOR NGREEDIA, your reviews are basically ads because YOU IGNORE THAT MINING IS GONE. you compare prices to mining era prices which is logicaly wrong. you basically defend overprice.
YOU ARE TO BLAME, Steve, Gordon, Linus, Jay, other Steve and Tim etc.. YOU ALL make ads for overpriced crap.
before mining in 2016 xx70 cards cost 300 bucks.
currently xx70 card IS THE 4080 16GB because its 30% lower performance than top card (the 4090) which is typical for xx70 cards of the past.
even 300 bucks for the 4050Ti (which is named 4060ti rn) would be a joke. actually anything more than 150 bucks for that card in 2023 is a joke.
400 bucks by ngreedia is insane when 4080 16GB MUST BE CHEAPER.
it is VERY BAD. there is no mining anymore to make money with GPUs, GPUs aren't shovels to dig gold anymore. their prices MUST go back to pre-mining level or ngreedia, ayyymd, untel can burn with their overpriced AF GPUs rotting on shelves.
DO NOT BUDGE to corporations' attempts to recondition the market to its insane overprice. DO NOT BUY. if you have to buy a GPU go used instead. or find another hobby, let corporations burn, let PC gaming as it is rn die and there WILL be WAY better priced products in the end.
ngreedia, ayyymd, untel are killing PC gaming with their overpriced crap, without way cheaper/faster GPUs nobody builds new PCs for new heavy games, sales drop and corporations are taking a hit from nobody buying their x3-4 times overpriced crap. as they should.
didnt they build arc? Without the pcie slot power stuff. yet.
if manufacturers make crap hardware they should expect it to not sell.
we are in the buyers market rn. we can choose from dozens way better used GPU options instead of buying x3-4 times ngreedia/ayyymd overprice. so why would anyone in their right mind buy overpriced AF crippled low-VRAM way too slow for its price ngreedia/ayyymd crap.
we won't until they drop prices to pre-mining 2016 level and offer WAY BETTER VALUE that should reflect that 1440p is the base level gaming in 2023, its not 1080p anymore, 1080p is extreme budget entry-level with GPUs that shouldn't cost more than 100-150 bucks just like entry-level 1080p montors are priced these days.
@@rawdez_ lol, what a twisted world view. First of all, a quick search shows we've all been blasting NVIDIA pretty hard for years now. The problem isn't reviewers. None of us has the power to affect overnight change on what a company valued at ONE TRILLION DOLLARS does. That takes the entire community and customer base to change, not just reviewers -- and reviewers have been complaining about pricing. Nice to blame reviewers on something a trillion dollar company does, though!
Literally too much fun making these videos with Steve and crew! If we lived in the same area we'd be in trouble :P
-Adam
That actually makes total sense...I've HAD a friend like that. It was fun. :)
Blaming regular people for buying a product instead of the mega corporations who manipulate the market and fuck customers is a super weird take. It's old, it's wrong, it's lazy. Individual people have NO bargaining power against mega corporations; this shouldn't be hard to understand.
But congrats for shifting blame into normal customers, surely it is people's fault that the gpu market is shit, and not lack of regulation leading to a monopolized market, right? Right?
It's fun watching you give an honest opinion... Even it's it's wrong :P RE: Does Intel need a "4090"
:P
You guys rock!
Nvidia inadvertently handed Intel a gift by refusing to increase the performance of the mid-tier ada gaming cards. Intel now has plenty of time to get Battlemage out the door.
Battlemage is soft cancelled. They fired the GPU division boss, Raja, and the gpu division has been dismantled and incorporated into the datacenter team. We won't see Battlemage gaming gpus, maybe a paper launch at best. Battlemage will be tiles for their data center CPU's, since that's a market they can be more competitive in
@@wile123456 Nvidia, AMD and Intel all target the datacenter, and then make gaming GPU's out of what comes out. Intel getting into GPU's was never about gaming, it was always about datacentre. Always.
Nothing has changed except what Intel wants to tell shareholders.
@@wile123456 LOL you hate Intel or what ? Orders are already confirmed for Battlemage and celestial. Why would they work on arc drivers if they have "cancelled Battlemage" ?
Battlemage isnt canceled.
@@wile123456 Stop posting fake info
It is REALLY impressive that even with a botched launch ARC has gotten 4% of the market in 1 year! That's no small feat! I wouldn't have thought Intel could manage that so fast.
I own an A770 and have had a really good experience.
I really hope Intel stays committed to the GPU market, the PC market needs this competition
How much did you pay for it? (Just curious) I got a 6650xt for roughly 200 (I'm counting the free game cause we were gonna get it anyway)...I looked at the Intel cards but got scared off by people saying how inconsistent they were
@@colestowing8695 I just got mine and paid 350 for the A770 LE
Your in luck. They have prepaid for the next 2 generations of production for it on TSMC.
@@colestowing8695Those new drivers are actually really good and make the a770 very competitive. Honestly all their gpu's are doing much better on top of this Battlemage is is supposed to have double the render slices of the a770 so I believe 64 render slices which is huge actually.
@John Smith yeah if they keep the prices in check could be very interesting
Gordon is a legend
Love filming with Gordon!
Gordon's rant of the week on the Maximum PC podcast was gold.
"Hey Gordon... we're in a restaurant". I stopped for a minute, Steve's face killed me.
@@cepheus3d You say chad, I see cringe
@@cepheus3d at least you are consistent
back in 2015, I was excited at the thought of getting a high end gpu for $600 when I get a job in the future.
8 years later and $600 can only get a 'midrange' lmao
In 2014, I got an R9 290 used for around $200 and it crushed any game I threw at it. Feels like a lifetime ago...
Thing is though, 8 years later your pay rate has doubled...
@@DailyCorvid has it tho?
@@DailyCorvid A lot of people might have more money in their accounts who have not been laid off in recent times, but the average cost of living including things like housing(More families of different generations are living together longer than ever in modern times), and cars(there is a reason more used cars, trucks, etc.. are on the road longer than ever before) has also increased, so it really negates the gains.
Damn must be incredibly depressing and stressful to move into the employment age after 2015.
Comedy Gold! Gordon: "F you NVIDIA!" Steve: "Hey Gordon, we're in a restaurant". Gordon looks around as if to remind himself and get his bearings. Love it!
it's kind of crazy how upgrading from a 1080 to a 4060 (same price range btw!) gives such a small performance uplift relative to what you'd expect after all these years
1080ti is still king in that bracket it seems
Ehh i sold my 1080ti in Dec before the mid tier cards came out.. because it still held value in dec. Sold it for 370$ with the waterblock. Bought a 6900xt with waterblock for 550$. And its over 2x the fps lol...
@@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305
I'm gonna do the same with my 3950X for a 12700k for almost twice the fps lol
@@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 i went to a 6750xt and it’s nice! but the perf uplift isn’t like 2x, closer to 1.5x but with RT support. still nice tho
Good deal!
These COMPUTEX talk shows are literally my favorite.
Love doing all these fun discussions!
@@GamersNexus Great stuff, love to hear it. Tis why your the best PC hardware guys on the internet n' not just youtube.
@@GamersNexus you always scrape away the last second before a disaster xD
first the closed off noctua talk and now Gordons f'yous XD
@@GamersNexus
The interviews are great, all the crap people showed off this year means little for consumers.
I've ignored LTT, Paul, and even L1's coverage this year because it's so boring. I appreciate you guys actually doing something interesting!
It's really great to see footage from a trade show again, after all the years of 'human malware' lockdown.
The unfiltered Gordon interview is always a highlight of these tech show events.
He's got a very entertaining "last honest journo in the industry and boy am I mad" kind of schtick going on. Like Steve, except more emotional. They really need to do a podcast or something, I bet it would be hilarious.
Gordon is a beauty and a joy forever. His personality and wisdom from the years are an asset to the community.
And yet if some dude on a forum, knowing just as much as gordon, would say this about nvidia you'd jump to his throat for even suggesting you buy anything less than a $5000 8090 ti
@@xFluing nah
@@kidman2505 I've had this happen to me so I'm pretty jaded sorry
@@xFluing that's unfortunate
I could watch a podcast of just these two, no guests required. Love seeing this particular collab.
PC world had Steve on for the 3d cpu blowing up.
Nobody is commenting on the mastery of editing at 8:26 & 8:38. I'm here for more of this!
I laughed so loud my wife came looking after me...
Don't forget about 16:20 lmao
LOL thanks for highlighting this
I don't get it.
Legend has it that Hawaiian shirt guy is still lost to this day.
I feel like Gordon just spoke for all the Tech channels that couldn’t be as blunt with their audience. I really mean the word ‘refreshing’ when I say this interview was refreshing.
It feels nice hearing someone prominent share the feeling of "why are the same people still buying Nvidia who won't shut up about it"
@@Enixious99
Yep! I’ve long said Nvidia will only stop being anti consumer when we really stop caring what they do.
For the first time in over 20 years, I no longer have an Nvidia graphics card in my PC. I've had an Intel ARC A770 16GB for about 3 weeks now, and honestly, I have to say I'm really satisfied. I was warned that I would have a ton of issues... but truth be told, I haven't had a SINGLE problem, be it compatibility or stability. I can only expect further improvements from this card. Greetings to everyone from Italy.
If Intel drivers have improved as much as implied, I would be interested in seeing a re-review of Arc against similarly priced GPUs. Also, what's the campatabilty with older titles? I still run a lot of older software like Jedi Knight, Baldur's Gate, etc etc. How does Arc work with Direct X 5&6. I know they emulate 9, but haven't heard much about prior DX versions.
Edit: fixed typos.
I love these videos with Gordon, and Der8auer, where its just an educational argument or rant, feels off the cuff, and genuine. Which is fun to see in the tech industry, instead of just marketing mumbo jumbo that makes no sense in the real world, lol.
100% agree lol great stuff
Gordon is a moron ,, De8auer is a weird GENIUS
The video with Leo from Kit Guru tech was especially good
Seeing Gordon these days reminds me that I’ve aged terribly. Been reading/watching him since 1998! My word.
Chin up mate... aging is still better than the alternative. ;-)
@@cairnex4473 is it
Only real ones remember Gordon when he started in boot/Maximum PC magazine... I miss those days (1999 PC gaming) RIP
@@cairnex4473
I've known people who would wholeheartedly disagree. Countries (like the US) should really allow euthanasia if the person actually wants it. It really beats spending your last 5 years with multiple cancers, watching your children die, being bed ridden, spending years in a nursing home, and being in constant agony and given just barely enough pain meds to not go mad. My Nana was 95 when she finally died, she wanted to die about 10 years earlier.
Don't worry. There are lots of young twinks out there waiting to call you "daddy" haha
Im stoked on ARC. The GPU market really needs this competition. I really hope Intel begins making their GPUs in their own fabs too vs TSMC where they are currently made.
Wish we had more videos with Gordon and Steve, it's just so damn nice to listen to these fellas talking
Honestly, I didn't expect Arc's drivers to improve this much this fast. I'd expected it to take at least a few months longer to get to where they are now.
Remember when in HLL people with a770 couldn't get over 50 fps and would drop below 20 in big fights. Now they stay over 100.
They kicked Raja Koduri out of the door and suddenly everything moved very fast.
@Azsune what's HLL?
Part of it is just getting enough cards out there that game developers start testing/optimizing for your hardware. Intel integrated graphics always had excellent software support because it was so ubiquitous. When Intel transitions their iGPU to Arc cores it will massively increase the install base.
@@Qbasz007 Hell let loose. I was able to find the acronym meaning. I gotcha man
I needed to replace my GTX 1070, so I tried an Arc A770 and had to RMA it. So I ended up getting a Radeon 6950XT. First non-NVidia card I’ve had since probably 2009, but their behavior during the HW Unboxed drama, along with their current gen cards being ass, convinced me to give the others a try, and so far AMD’s software and hardware are awesome!
ETA: Don’t be concerned about the RMA for the A770, if you’re considering an Intel card. I just got unlucky and got a bad one. Intel’s support was awesome, and I’d have gladly gone back to them, but by the time my refund was complete my financial situation had changed and I was able to go for a more expensive card, which Intel does not currently have.
I love watching these two get together and chat about stuff Gordon seems like a great guy!
Your videos with Gordon are always a treat.
So, how many modmats do we have to buy to guarantee a "Steve and Gordon Go to Best Buy" video?
@gamersnexus @pcworld when can we get this moving?
I certainly hope that Arc isn't dead. I feel like, for a first crack at dedicated GPUs, going up against competitors with decades in the field, Arc is pretty damn impressive. I'm looking forward to what Intel can do with future generations.
No more new A770LE
"Arc" isn't dead, the low powered variant of it is baked into their strategy for iGPU for the next several product lines starting with Meteor Lake. And no it's not just naming, it seems like the IP is substantially similar, it's the same tech. Just lower wattage and a bit smaller, basically.
If they keep making it in discrete format I'm not totally sure, and whether it stays an add-on card I'm also not sure, but honestly I think it has a big place in iGPUs on Desktop, iGPUs on laptop, and even really power-efficient discrete GPU on laptop.
Again, I dunno if them using it to great effect in more embedded-style uses will keep them motivated to do it in PCIe add-in cards, but I do think that use-case helps motivate them to push the design to be better at the higher end and achieve higher perf at the top end of the lineup, which benefits the lower-price lower-power parts indirectly. And like AMD and NVidia, having a solid desktop chip design you can scale down easily for low-power in iGPU or laptop GPU can be high-volume, profitable business, too.
Arc PCIe isn't IMO even the most interesting thing about Xe, it's laptop and iGPU. If Battlemage or Celestial are properly strong (and probably a lot higher wattage unfortunately), then maybe they'll stay relevant in PCIe cards. Almost doesn' matter though given the lower-wattage applications this design already looks like it will shine at starting with the next gen iGPUs. Hopefully they can challenge AMD's iGPUs for gaming, probably blow them out of the water for things like Premiere and DaVinci Resolve since video editor software all seems to prioritize intel so hard and intel's hardware video codecs have been so good...
Whoever is writing down the index descriptors...dude, you're a fuckn' legend.Keep up the good work.
It's time for these two guys to have their own podcast/news. I would watch/listen to all episodes on the seconds they would come out.
That only waters down their own channel's.
I'm not sure Steve would have time for that. I think he works something like 65-70 hours most weeks and upwards of 80-85 around product launches.
Gordon does have a news show that Steve appeared on not long ago.
@@TheCambo31 Closer to 90-100 every week and 100+ on launches!
@@GamersNexus Jeez Steve. Glad you are passionate about your work and can put in those long hours to put out great content, but I hope that you are making time for a break and getting out on the trails with your bike.
Arc has been great for me so far! Really hoping they don’t kill it 🤞
It has improved a TON! It's impressive actually how far they've come with drivers. Here's hoping the high-ups recognize the progress.
Yes, my A770 has been perfectly fine as well. Just a few days ago it dawned on me that it's been over five months since I put the A770 in my system. I'm very interested in seeing what Battlemage does and whether it'll use Adamantine cache.
@@deanclark8783 Will it pull 250-300 FPS, Ultra Settings, 1440p in games like COD or BattleField? Serious question.
I use an A770 LE for racing on a 4K tv it works with hdmi 2.1 great
Me too, me too... the market could really use Intel to step up and bring back some semblance of competition right about now
I still remember listening to the Maximum PC podcast and Gordon's rant of the week. Good times!
i have to say, i took a chance on arc at launch for its deep link features for creation and gaming. I am happy it gets better as it goes along, right now i find that much of the features for creation are waiting for integration from the application side of things. i am also not a normal demographic, im not afraid to take things apart and i have patience to work thru or around issues till they are solved. over all its been a good experience.
I went AMD this round and I couldn't be happier with my 6800xt. I might go Intel next if the cards and drivers are there. I do not see myself buying Nvidia for it a long time.
Same here. Went from a 1070 to a 6800xt and I'm happy. The only way I'd even consider nvidia from here on out is if their 80 tier cards drop to the $600-800 range. And honestly I don't see that happening. $800 is the absolute max that I would possibly consider spending on a gpu, but it would have to be one heck of a card and I'd really have to talk myself into it. More realistically the max for a gpu would be willing to spend is about $600. I did use ATI cards back in the day before AMD bought them, but this is my first AMD card.
I had two 2080TI's burn up so I went with a 7900XT that I got for only $799. Very happy.
Nvidia is getting out of the consumer market so I doubt they care.
@@1pcfred Just because they are pushing AI doesn't mean they're getting out of the consumer card market.
@@iambiggus Yea that's a very braindead assumption the guy has lol. AI is ginormous, so enterprise cards are gonna focus it, but why the hell would they give up on the consumer space as long as it makes them money? It's only justifiable if for every sale they somehow lost money in the GeForce lineup (like how the consoles play out)
"Were in a resturant" had me dying lmao
"were" ???? What's that?
"Sir, this is a Wendy's"
Love watching these things. Being somewhat new to PC gaming (been in it for maybe 3 or 4 months) it’s nice to learn new stuff.
Love the cut to gormless Gary in the background
Gordon is such a pleasure to watch. Have him on more often.
Almost forgot about this series, great episode, always love your talks with Gordon. Also 8:23 to 8:27 took me by surprise, dude was so random =)).
Wasn't that Adam Patrick Murray? It looks just like him haha!
@@ACallander22 it must be him
@@0Blueaura Busted :P
that dude made me crack up 😂
... and the one at @16:16! Why was everyone so lost!?!
It's almost like a boss told his employees to do it for entertainment 😱 No, it couldn't be
Gordon's the man! I enjoyed his work at MaximumPC and even more at PC World!!!
so as an Owner of an Arc Card I can tell you two things 1. the Arc Card is just a beefer version of their Integrated Graphics on their CPU, uses the same Drivers actually you wouldn't be able to do that if there wasn't similar Architecture. 2. it works together with the integrated GPU on your CPU if you have it.
the fact it's just a beefer version of what they put on the CPUs just makes me think as long as people keep buying them they won't kill them because they are going to be producing the Silica & Drivers either way. also the net benefit to Arc is that the Integrated Graphics improves every generation to every other Generation of Intel CPU rather then every 4-5 Generations. so even for the most Budget Oriented Consumer who can't afford a stand alone Graphics card there is a net benefit. the other thing I've noticed is the More Ram your system has the better.
Coming from a 1080 Ti, I looked to NVIDIA to upgrade this year. I had eyes on the 4070 Ti, but the reviews steered me away. I ended up going with a 6950 XT and I'm super happy.
Edit: I have no "driver problems" and don't care much about heavy usage of RT & DLSS. There, took care of the low-hanging fruit. 🙂
are you enjoying the drivers
@@GewelReal lol, this 10+ year old hoax again still going?
@@GewelReal Just for gaming, I find AMD drivers better than Nvidia. I have AMD gaming PC and Nvidia production PC.
@@GewelReal They are good. So is the Adrenalin app, better than Nvidia in my opinion.
youre missing out on DLSS 3.... sad
Best part is when Adam is wandering around in the background. Made me laugh!
it was highly entertaining, as always. Thank you Gordon. Thank you Steve.
When I got a new GPU in December, I considered Intel. I wasn't quite comfortable with it at the time, but the value even then was a serious point for going with them. I went with an RX 6750 XT and have been very happy with that purchase.
Absolutely love your discussions with Gordon
That's the biggest gripe for me, is people are like "What are these PRICES" and I'm like, clearly there's a reason the 3050 was still above the (awful) MSRP before the 4060Ti launch. SOMEONE is buying this shit.
I think it's a combination of factors. Some people are buying them for sure, but supply has been "fixed" i a way where nvidia and AMD doesn't run into a situation where retailers are forced to drop prices. Back in the day, nvidia and AMD would have been encouraged to produce more product in order to increase market share and satisfy their wafer agreements. Since this has already been taken care off with datacenter products, they produce just enough cards to keep it in comfortable stock at the price it's at atm. This is at least what the rumors/channel leaks suggest.
Yes, the uninformed casual buyer.
And that needs to stop
@@patricktho6546 I'm far from uninformed and I just recently bought a 3060ti, stop pretending it's just always a bad choice to buy nvidia cards, it's cringe af
I bought a 3050 for my budget el-cheapo-PC last winter, lol, works absolutely fine.
@@bakubakubakubaku599 The more like Apple they become the less i want anything to do with them. Bought a 3060ti a couple years ago & am glad I didn't "upgrade" to the 4060 (because it's not an upgrade)
Seeing all the personalities interact with each other is my favourite part of computex!
Hey Steve - one of the things i dont know enough about in regards to purchasing or recommending intel arc is how the drivers have come along.
We hear "the drivers are better now", but havent gotten a fresh look at the driver software after its improvements. I would love a re-review of the driver/software package to see how the ux has improved
I'd love an Arc that competes with Nvidia's 70 and 80 cards.
If they aimed to steal the 6070's spot I think that'd do them a lot of good (I doubt they can pull it off for the next generation - need another generation of polish first).
Let's hope that the hard- and software teams at Intel are going to learn from past mistakes and deliver something better in all regards next time. The lackluster Alchemist launch was a disaster. If they had launched it a year earlier with the quality of drivers from today, that would have been a different story entirely.
@@seylaw any launch is an achievement. What you're expecting is unrealistic. You can't expect to win the first race you run.
@@seylaw Intel really just sucks with DX11 and depending how heavily a game relies on that, DX10 is also dog shit but in 3 or 4 years, this won't be an issue as the product's drivers just mature generally and DX10 features are moved to wrappers. The fact Intel has already acquired 6% of the dedicated GPU market in its first generation is telling of the limited competition provided by AMD and also their potential to reach a substantial market share. It's absolutely a big win from their perspective.
@@1pcfred I did not claim that Intel had to beat Nvidia with their first try. There is more than absolute performance to win me over. Ryzen 1000 wasn't the clear performance winner but still won the hearts and minds of the PC community. Intel failed to do so with Alchemist as both the hardware and software is just too bugged to be a decent enough experience. At least the market reaction agrees with me here. Is that going to change with better drivers? Maybe, but it is still behind a 6700XT most of the time and I doubt that will change with future driver updates. I hope Intel will do better with their second and third generation though.
i really hope they continue with Arc i am really really happy with mine and im actually impressed how quick they manage to improve drivers (even if it would have been cool if they worked from the start)
Same, and I didnt get Arc I got a 6700. But if they keep it up and make their GPUs a truely reliable platform, I'd be happy to pick up an Arc as my next GPU
I haven't had an Nvidia card since the 970 personally. it started when I was shopping for a dual monitor+gpu and realized gsync bumped up the cost pretty significantly overall. this was before RTX so I didn't see a huge reason to prefer team green over red and I just went with the more affordable option. been happy with AMD since.
10:23 "People associate gaming with nVidia."
Not only.
I shared my new build with some friends, and commented the pc would be for gaming and editing.
One of the guys asked "How will you render without an nVidia? You won't have cuda cores!"
Like "rendering" was something nobody could do before cudas were designed.
Yep. The worst part is that most people who complain about missing or "niche" (they're not for prosumers or professionals, but your average Joe isn't running an LLM or doing fluid physics simulations) features rarely or never use them.
The Gordon + Steve videos are some of the best. Always look forward to the meetups between these two.
I buy NVIDIA card. kiss my ass.
My name is Adam and that was actually my point for a while. Folks skipped value to buy a brand, and it screwed us all. Thanks for bringing that up Gordon.
Also, GN guys behind the scene, great job with the sound, fantastic work in a tough situation on all of the videos, lots of credit for your audio professionalism, as an amateur audio engineer.
The real issue with DLSS 3, especially in the context of the RTX 4060 controversial launch, is that this technology may very well run on NVIDIA’s RTX 30 series for what we know… and that it may just be an artificial benefit for the new produit line.
I’ve been listening/reading to Gordon talk smack for 15,16 I don’t know how many years. Gordon is awesome.
With the recent price drops that AMD had, I built a Ryzen 5600X, 32GB Ram, and a RX 6700 XT. Not even disappointed. Didn't build it as a gaming machine but for audio recording and some streaming. Being able to afford a graphics card to do some gaming too was such a nice bonus.
Exactly. I have both Nvidia and AMD cards... my secondary card is a cheap 6750XT which is more or less the performance of an RTX 3080... with more VRAM. Which is a performance sweet spot that will last for many years because of how many people have them. If I had to give up my flagship card, I'd still be pretty darn happy with this. The Intel cards are fine at this point, but they don't quite reach into a performance range I'd recommend for anyone buying a new card.
Gordon is always a good guest. Way back when (90's) I had a subscription to PC World!
When it came time to put the 1080ti in the living room pc, it's replacement for my rig was 6900xt and I don't regret it at all. It's going to take a while before I buy another Nvidia gpu at this point.
GORDON!
Been a fan of Gordon's tech journalism since the MaximumPC days. That whole crew had a lot of integrity, not afraid to slam a major advertiser for bad hardware. Real tech nerds, too. I learned a ton about the evolution of PC hardware from that magazine, down to the base materials. I subscribed until they closed down.
*News to me but figured they'd die eventually. Had a sub since "boot" days. Gordon left, later became fewer pages and finer, unreadable print. Was done with that.*
@@blackrifle6736 Hmm. Looks like I'm partly wrong. They were still in circulation recently. I know they shut down the print mag for a bit, at least, after Ziff-Davis bought them out and ran them into the ground (unless I'm misremembering who -- ZD did that a lot at the time). Gordon went to PC World in Nov 2014, which sounds about right for my subscription stopping mid-year, and my sub was still good for 3 more years, I think. I remember hearing someone, maybe the original EIC, was going to revive it, but I guess I lost interest with waiting. They shut down the website officially in 2016 and it became PC Gamer's Hardware section. As of this April, the magazine and its "sister" mag MacWorld went digital-only. Aside from that, details on if/when it went out of print and came back didn't jump out in my quick search.
@@bloodgain *Thanks for giving the good try and increasing my knowledge. Cheers!*
I ended up going AMD since Arc at the time wasn’t super common and considered unstable and I didn’t want to bother buying a windows license so AMD on Linux just made sense, grabbed a 6700xt off facebook to replace the 1070 that I used while waiting for getting a new card.
Gordon's monologue felt like a wrestling promo. A great one at that
That man in the background is just my spirit animal, stumbling about in the gpu market. Great metaphore guys.
I got an Arc A770 a week ago, and honestly - love it! The performance has been amazing, even on older games.
I was hesitant at first as I read it had a heap of issues with older games, and yet I ran some of my favourite older games (Dark Crusade, Battle for Middle-Earth, F:NV) and none had an issue at all.
Really excited to see what they do in the future with their GPUs!
Have you tried VATS in FO:NV. The game worked fine, but once I got deeper in I realized that VATS with guns was near 0% even as my skills improved.
People be like "waahhh this GPU gets 10FPS more for the same price!"
but like, does it even matter when you're plenty satisfied with an "inferior" product?
@peterscott2662 I haven't played enough to say if that has happened, but I do also heavily mod my games, so it may be difficult for me based on that
@@vampurrrrr Mine was heavily modded (with TTW mod) before I discovered it. So I started by blaming the mods. But it wasn't.
These guys need to have a weekly podcast.
This Chinese man knows what he's talking about! Very nice to listen to, and nothing to argue with.
Me personally would buy AMD GPU, because of these points:
1. Beter value for lower price.
2. RTX is a deathborn technology and will be replaced with more performant hardware-independent technologies soon (ex. Nanites of UE5).
3. AMD open-sourse and open-tech politics (Mantle, Vulkan, TrueSound, FreeSync, etc.)
That zooming in on the random confused guy got me lol. Cameraman knows 😂
I wish he had a platform to speak candidly outside of interviews with other journalists. He's very insightful and very experienced, so he'll give you perspectives other journalists can't.
In light of the 4060ti situation, it would bee really cool if GN re-ran the ARC bench's with latest drivers. In the UK an A770 Phantom Gaming is only £269!
We already reran it. All those numbers were new.
Only price I can find for that card is £400 and up.
Compare to Nvidia the pricing of the ARC GPU's is fine. But the issue Intel has is AMD cards. AMD cards right now give better performance for even less.
Arc750 is their best offer and usually you can find the RX6600 that performs close cheaper.
Then you have the ARc770 that performs around a RX6650XT performance but you can find it being sold around $350-400 when with that money you can get RX6700 or even RX6700XT that they destroy the ARC770.
And all this without even mentioning the new RX7600 that around 270-300 is actually quite competitive.
Found the a770 in uk online for £259 (Asrock Phantom Gaming D with 8GB), the 16GB is at £399 (Acer Predator BiFrost OC). Seem very competitive to me
@@GamersNexus Oops. need to find that video lol
loving all these crossover episodes
Love that intro rant, Gordon hit the nail on the head. Everyone will bitch about NVIDIA and turn around and scoop up a 4070 Ti.
I feel so called out 5 seconds into the video and I couldn't be happier
Gordon is great
It'd be ironic if ARM ends up dominating the desktop CPU and Intel dominates GPU's
It's what nvidia deserves
f'ing christ you are 100% right. 🤣🤣🤣 Nvidia deciding to be a baddie after being refused an X86 licence, and Intel's prior big sins as a cpu provider?
Yeah like snugging under a warm blanket as far as fates go.
He is right. If you bought an Nvidia card you are the problem. Bunch of tards with their parents money buying these overpriced POS and then crying about it on the internet.
Datacentre is where the big money is. Intel and AMD can sell CPU's for $10k plus.
Nvidia can sell GPU's and AI accelerators for $100k plus.
Intel and AMD don't care about the desktop market. Desktop is a side hussle for all 3 companies.
@@antontaylor4530 Intel data center earnings is lower than client, AMD has both almost the same. Both is available on the internet
I don't know how you got the conclussion of it being "a side hussle" and "they don't care"
Neither is gonna happen and it's hilarious how Nvidia people want Intel in GPUs over AMD, just shows how dumb you are tbh
I remember reading Gordon's articles in Maximum PC magazine 20 years ago!
Have an a770 16gb.
I love it!
The only issue I've had, and maybe its on me for not setting up things in obs correctly, is that av1 encoding seems to have a slightly higher performance hit than nvenc did on the gtx1080 I used to have.
Beyond that, every game I've thrown at it (I havent tried ac6 or starfield yet) has played fine. Always way above 120fps (where I tend to cap games at) at native 1080p ultra settings (minus ray tracing because I personally dont think its worth the performance hit).
Bought an A770 with my new build primarily in support of what Intel is trying to do, but man its actually a very competint card for the money. Strongly believe the VRAM was a good choice and the drivers do keep getting better.
Also if you have the paitence for it, switching games that perform somewhat poorly to run on DXVK often solves the issue. Some games ive done this with have gone from 20-40fps range at 1440p to 100fps+ at the same resolution.
20:00, you can really tell that Steve is having fun, I'm really glad to have him on this platform!
A few times you and Gordon both touched on how the Intel discrete GPU user experience has been greatly improved since launch. Would you consider doing an info piece on that topic? Maybe review the new Intel card and then at the same time go over how things have improved since the initial video you guys made?
Thanks, Steve.
th-cam.com/video/ecfV17wrjfs/w-d-xo.html is from February. I think it's going to be quarterly moving forward. Also Dawid does tech stuff has a video where the point was to use it for a month and get footage of the explosion when it happens. That never came for him.
Damn good video! Good to see yall be yourselves outside the normal work/self
6750XT Owner here, love the card, got it on sale recently and for the price it's a beast.
I was shopping for a $500 price range card for my first build in years, but I ended up going with the Arc A750 after watching all these videos you guys have made about it. It’s really nice to have a third option for GPUs
For me ARC isnt even close to an option. I paid 350$ for the 16gb LE A770 and my favorite games dont work. SWTOR and the historical Total War Titles pre Warhammer 1 have game breaking bugs. Even ones that do like CK3 and M&B2 Bannerlord have bugs that while they dont crash the game making it unplayable I dont want my ck3 portrait to be the monster from lvl1 of escape the backrooms or my foliage on the campaign back to be a flashing mess of black rectangles because trees cant load properly. Performance wise on esports titles its closer to my RX 480 8gb than I really wouldve hoped only gaining about 50 fps in CSGO and League, which crashes every 10th game I play. My computer also can no longer wake up from sleep mode despite the latest drivers. Id buy a 4060ti with terrible vram for $400 when I know Id get more performance, my games would work, and by the time Im done with the card my energy bill will give me the 50$ back since the arc cards have 0 optimization done for power saving. They brute force their way through every game.
very excited to see what intel puts out. on linux, you're kind of stuck with amd or integrated graphics, and intel is very good about making linux drivers for their products
@@cpin5224 You aren't stuck with AMD.
AMD was the only graphics company that has consistently supported Linux. 😐
@@CleonofAthens hace you tried using dxvk
Gordan!! Absoulutely love this man! ❤
The best 20 seconds of a intro ever! I'm beyond sick of all these kids crying about value, when in reality it's all about how much you want to spend in that time of current products..
I mostly game in VR and I really needed to upgrade from my 5700XT. Unfortunately AMD 7000 series seems to have issues, depending on the game and/or headset and Intel’s Arc isn’t officially supported with the Quest 2 (which I use).
If AMD can get the VR issues sorted with the 7000 series, it’d be a much welcomed option to the VR space. Some people have no issues and to others it’s not playable. Most end up in the middle of the spectrum where some games are flawless and others have visual artifacts or microstutter terribly.
I’m really excited to see what Intel has in store for the next generation of Arc.
I was in the same boat. I really wanted to go the 7900 XTX, but had to settle with Nvidia again because of VR and wasn’t that pleased after the whole VRAM shenanigans.
Yup, exactly the same for me, the 7900XTX has worse performance in IL-2 sturmovik VR than a 3080, unacceptable. Ended up getting a 4090, since i need the power for the bigscreen beyond.
Your videos with Gordon are always a treat
Mercy Bucket, more of the same entertaining, informative and fun viewing and listening. Back to you Steve.
Infinite love for Gordon. He da man! :D
Thank you Steve, for bringing him in. Back to you Steve!
Loved every second of this get together and pcworld has a new subscriber.
This should be a monthly series with leading pc content creators about the state of pc technology regarding different topics.
Legend has it that dude is still walking around looking up and bewildered
Also I had a 3070 at the time of the launch of the Intel cards so I didn't pick one up but I'm waiting for the next gen Intel to see what they can do I mean they brought the cards from a buggy mess to something that's actually competitive in such a short amount of time they're really trying to improve and make this happen
My best Chinese friend here in Xi'an china is also named Gordon. This guy Gordon is a kick in the pants and I love it. I hope he never changes.
I have another friend that has a very similar personality, whom i value greatly, and he is also Chinese.
I don't buy nVidia. Value just isn't in their line up. I just purchased a AMD RX6800XT, and got it new in the low $400s. Very happy with it.
Love Gordon, grew up reading his articles, love his work.
My next GPU will most likely be a Sapphire AMD card because Nvidia is out of contention without EVGA and given the latest issues with Asus and Gigabyte I've lost faith in those brands. Its going to be best warranty and best one of Steve's teardowns that makes my mind up.
i,m glad i don't live in the US we have 5 years warranty
My Strix 4090 has never given me any issues.
I don't know what to think about Sapphire. On one hand the fact you can replace fans easily is nice, on another end I remember return rates from an european retailer if I'm not mistaken and thoses were abysmal
powercolor is also a top contender for AMD cards, they actually shows their gpu production factory and i was really impressed on the quality control and the stress testing they did for their cards, it was insane how high quality it is
And ASRock, I had an RX 580 from them when they moved into GPUs and quite frankly it's ridiculous, way to OC and the heat solutions are just insane unless you want to treat it as disposable.
I actually swapped my 2060 Super to an RX 6600XT last month. So far, it's a very good GPU for 1440p as long as it's not ultra settings everything. I've been an Nvidia GPU owner since the early 2000s but since pricing has gotten higher with current RTX cards, moving to team Red seems to be great for me. If the RX 8000s series will be great in price and performance, I'll be happy to buy a higher-end Radeon desktop GPU. o7
1080p came in 2005 and became one of the most popular resolution to game on. 1440p just never caught on in the same way. Everyone now seems to be only talking about 4k this 4k that. It is easier back than to segment the cards because every one was gaming on 1080p (just reduce SM by 10%-15% each tier). But now at the high end you need a card that 4x as powerful to run 4k. But at the mid and low tiers many people are still gaming at 1080p. You run into a point where even if Nvidia gave you more SMs you won't have enough load to fully utilize it at low res. People at this segment are also less likely to suddenly get a 1440p high refresh rate monitor just because they upgraded their GPU. So even if Nvidia made 4060Ti a good 1440p card it will still be poor values for most users on 1080p. Bleeding edge lithography node are also much more expansive + the R&D cost so each SM cost more. The market will only be better if we stop chasing for ever higher resolutions.
I really love the auto generated comments for PCWorld. Thanks
Enjoying these Gordon videos and started watching @pcworld after the last in the series. I recently did my first new build in about a decade with gaming class laptops to fill the more recent gaps my latest one with RTX 3070 140w laptop GPU.
I went with Nvidia 4070 Ti in the end because I talked myself into spending that fluffing much on a card and it boiled down to that over the 7900XT with way more VRAM!! :( Nvidia mindshare got to me hard on that purchase but it was because of the better RT performance and new super resolution upscaling at the time. I've since found it to be a pretty mediocre feature in it's current state and aside from playing Portal RTX again compared to laptop 3070 RTX I'm feeling like I paid a 30% nVidia tax for features I only care about %10 of the time (and probably wouldn't miss).
I feel like the video tried to touch on this aspect but didn't fully articulate the bleed over effect of gamers who would go AMD/Intel graphics if they didn't get FOMO over missing out on features they'll likely not appreciate 95%+ of the time or even miss... DLSS is pretty great but the AMD version is plenty good for most folks...RT is fantastic in the 5% of games where I notice or even care about it. I hope in a year I'm not really hating the 12GB of VRAM vs the 20GB I could have had with 7900xt.
TL;DR AMD and Intel if they can sweeten the driver stack with superfluous features used rarely it'd help a lot with mindshare.
Allright, Gordon is awesome. Always has been. What I think would be great is if he made it somehow his part time YT job to make lots of guest appearances on different channels, ha! I'd love to see him on a LTT video, Hardware Unboxed, MKBHD, podcast guest on Moore's Law is Dead, etc. He's just a joy to watch interact with others.
So I got an Arc 750 at launch (on a wait list, was going through emails when the notification came in, click...click...click pay 😮😬). I don't game, just tinker since 1991 with PCs (I might be the only one here watching this who's older than Gordon) and always jump on any old bandwagon (yes, I ran a Cyrix CPU for a while!). Oddball out is my middle name.
Loved this video! Also editing was hilarious with the wanderers in the background, hahaha! :D