Kevin Baxter from "Pro Twin" mentioned that some people have gone as far as polishing with jewelers polish and wheel, the outside of the chain (your particular type). Makes sense to me as a cheap way to extend the life of your shoes. Thank you for an informative video on how to properly make this crucial check of the cam chain tensioners.
I’m glad you found the video helpful. Yes, I’ve heard about that too. It’s definitely worth doing it if you’re not converting it to hydraulic or gear drive.
Great video dude ! I found this link on a hd forum about cam tensioner failure..saved me a ton of cash and sleepless nights ! Thanks brother..I've shared the link for this a few times ...scary shit a dishonest shop could check this same way in 30 min and tell u they were bad and charge 600 or more and litterly do nothing
A buddy of mine that has a 2006 Ultra change his at 50k and forgot all about it and at 117 the tensioners fell apart and the metal went through and destroyed a perfect running tc88 that had a lot of life left in her. We replaced it with a S&S 111 and it's a Runner now. Long story short $8500.00 later. Change the tentioners.
@@aronsgarage834 if you're changing your oil when you're suppose to and not leaving in for two years because you didn't ride it much last year! The bike will give you a lifetime of enjoyment. I have a Softail Duece that I bought in 2001 and even though it sits forever because I have other bikes I still change the oil once a year just like my Ultra that is my old faithful.
Great video, I check mine every second year but haven't lifted the tensioners yet. I already got the new SE kit home that will be installed in the future
I see that this an old video but I just had my mechanical tensioner replaced with the hydraulic replacement. It wasn't cheap but wasn't as bad as paying Harley to put new bars (12") on my '04 Road King. I had the stainless braided control cables instead of the black plastic. it is pretty bright to begin with. I've only ridden it home and started it again tonight, but the motor is so much quieter than it was. Granted my tensioner was ate up so that is to be expected. The reason I'm posting is I had that done at 24k miles or so and "if done right" I covered a lot of issues and don't have to worry about it again for a long time. I found this video by accident, I wasn't actually looking for this one and it is a good video, but on the 88 I suggest you put the hydraulic kit in. It replaces a lot of parts that may cause you an issue in the future. I have a bad back and no place to work on it so it cost me about $2 grand for the dealer to do it, but I got some help I think. Sounds like it was worth it so far though.
Glad you did the conversion early. Yes, I made made the video after buying my Harley 4.5 years ago. I’m actually doing the hydraulic conversion myself next spring which I’m planning to film. Got all the parts for it now, just need the time.
Harley-Davidson never should have gotten away from the evolution design with gears, all they had to do was bump up the design. As we all know the new Milwaukee 8 has basically went back to a gear design with less maintenance, even if you have to check the M8 it’s just one chain and one tensioner on the outside of plate for easy checking. Secondly, Harley-Davidson needs to get rid of the chain primary and 3 hole oil fill because Indian, Victory , Honda, and Yamaha have done it which is why they take away sales from Harley-Davidson to this day.
I replaced mine with the hydraulic tensioner upgrade and there is a lot less worry about failure and tensioner wear. Cam plate with high pressure oil pump, hydraulic tensioners and cam upgrade. Well worth the money to upgrade.
Totally agreed. Not being a gear head myself... I went the next step... with having a gear drive set installed. I felt that while I had the cam chest open, get rid of the offending parts!. It is not a cheap upgrade I grant you .. but its hard to put a $$ figure on peace of mind.
Stupid question, probably. But whats the fastest way to know if an 88 has been upgraded to the hydraulic tensioner? I recently bought an 05 road king and the bike had been completely disassembled and rebuilt and with add ons and upgrades. It has a 6 speed gear box now, as one example. So it makes me wonder, did he fix this well known tensioner issue while he was in there, also? Can i tell without pulling the cover?
@@rrmorris67 The only way that I know of is to remove the cam inspection plate and visually look to see if the tensioners are spring loaded or if they have been converted to the hydraulic system.
If you have to replace them , buy updated hydraulic setup, bolt cutters, and a adjustable push rods kit to do the job if not removing tank , rockers etc... if you do then install rocker lockers kit !
That’s the problem. They wear off at random times. Some at 30k some as early as 10k. So the longer term solution is converting it to either hydraulic or gear drive.
Thank you! You don't need to drain the oil. As you're taking off the cover, though, a bit of oil will come out (50-100ml tops). Yes, you need a new gasket or use a gasket sealant (which I actually prefer).
@Calvin hi Calvin, the only time you need remove the camplate if you want to replace the rear shoe. However, in order to do that, first you need to take out the pushrods. It's a big job. Only checking them, on the other hand, is real simple.
@Calvin I totally get you. When I learned about all these, I myself too thought about abandoning it, or swapping it for a Sportster (bulletproof) but I do love my Dyna. I might do the gear conversion challenge at some point, and afterwards It'll be low maintenance. You did crack me up with the hobby part..but I agree
I'm about to change my tensioners out just for good measure...I'm at 25,000 mi, so I figure when I check them, might as well change them while I'm there & then I'll know it'll be a while before I have to crack this thing open again & give me some time to save up for a gear drive conversion...great hack on the tool...how old is this bike & it's only got 5,000 miles on it? Need to get out & put some more wear on those tensioners! Lol!
Yeah, good idea to change them while you are in there. I have now gathered all the parts for the hydraulic conversion, which I’m planning to do and record next spring. I bought the bike 5 and a half years ago with 1500 miles on the clock believe it or not! 😃 I now got around 8000, still like new lol It’s a 1999 Super Glide. What year is yours?
If I'm opening up the cam chest the cam plate, cams, and oil pump are all coming out for close inspection. The inner cam bearings are getting replaced.
@Krieger I totally agree which is one of the reasons I used all aftermarket parts the other reason is I felt the aftermarket parts were actually better quality
@@dickjohnson5025 Nope. Bean counter / bigger profit requirements. And it is truly a disgrace that Harley went that route on so many fronts on the Twin Cams and M8's considering its a premium brand with premium price tags dangling from them handlebars. Heck, the Yamaha Road Star (air cooled/pushrods/single/crank/no counter balancers/belt final drive) had cam driven gears when they made those fantastic bikes (1999-2015).
Heres some insight from my school bus mechanic father. When ever possible never pry steel metal, like tools against aluminum motor cases. So before you pried with screwdriver he would place some kind of contact protection pad. Hes had one too many, "Oops" moments! One thing no one shows is "hard to remove, because of heat, exhaust pipe mounting bolts. The rubber boot around electrical unit by oil filter is poorly designed closure. These pads are poor design. Im replacing pads with accessory plate hydraulic pads. I'd like to put chain drive, but not cost effective?
Great video, watched twice so far! Just bought an 01 RK and it appears to have been well taken care of. I can tell the carb has been modified, and it has nice flow intake and exhaust. 23.000 miles …No service records though. Can I possible see if tensioners have been upgraded by removing the small cover on the cam box cover? I'm definitely going with a borescope idea too!
Hi Eric, Thanks! That was my very first video. Probably not the best but really wanted help others with this. No, unfortunately you can’t check through that small cover. You need to the do the whole process. Fingers crossed yours has been converted! Let me know, Aron
It looks like I see the opening of the cross over pipe at the start of your video in the lower left hand corner at the start of your video? Are you able to take off the front header without removing the rear? The manual says to remove the entire exhaust, but I'd rather not mess with seating two exhaust gaskets and handling the whole system if I don't have to. I have 20K on my bike and am thinking about getting a Feuling 7088 kit, but at the very least, it's time to take a look. I can't tell if the center clamp on the cross over clamps the two pipe together or just holds the heat shield. Thanks.
Thanks. It's pretty easy. You take off the two cam sprockets and remove the tensioner (need a pair of circlip pliers). I did it once when I replaced the oil pressure relief spring. It was in the way. Hope this helps.
Sure. If you can do it yourself though you’ll reduce the cost to around $800. I’m going to do mine in the near future. I’ll most likely record it and upload the videos.
You got me thinking about acessing a view of the inside tensioner. I Have a inexoensive Endo-scope that plugs into my cell phone. I'm going to give it a try. I've also heard that both shoes wear pretty evenly. So the outside probably tells us what the indisde one looks like. Thx
Yes, that should work pretty good. The thing is I heard people having had the inside wear out faster. I guess it all depends on the camchains they installed. Some of them had really rough edges, just randomly from manufacturing.
Depends how much it is grooved and worn off, but it’s definitely time to think about and plan when and what kit you’re going to replace them with. Whether or not to convert to hydraulic or gear drive, which most of us do
At 10 k miles and 18 years old mine looked fine. I replaced the outside one because it was so easy. The inside one I left alone a lot more work. Usually they give you a warning by making a noise when worn through. If I had to do it again I would not check till 20k miles.
Not really sure. I have heard roughly around 800. I have not changed them or done the conversion yet ( I’ll convert it to hydraulic soon though). I will anticipate at least 6 hours..
Need to pull the camchest unfortunately, so a pretty big job. Which is why most people while they are at it, they end up doing the conversion to either gear drive or hydraulic tensioners.
@@aronsgarage834 took them a lot longer than that to take off exhaust and cam cover. Guy over here does the complete job ( replace outer and inner ) plus cam bearing Inc pads and springs ( tank off ) £500
эх, гдеж ты раньше был с этим видео, когда я не знал как посмотреть задний башмак.. до меня дошло что можно было так сделать только после того как все разобрал.. а старый башмак, который я поменял, еще походил бы..😁
@@gilbertquick2412 Not Possible ... There is one in front of cam plate , and one in back of cam plate. YOu must pull the cam plate all the way out to remove the back one... and since the cam plate is pulled, I suggest owners go ahead and pull tin plated cam bearings and replace with case hardened timken cam bearings...
No, it doesn’t, anyone reading this do NOT run the motor without the tensioners. Just imagine the chains flopping all around in there, yea. And if even remotely true, imagine how screwed the guy that bought the bike was. This is either really bad trolling or a very inept individual.
The idea would be to have something that would wear down before the metal chain. A roller bearing would have been better if you ask me but I'm sure there was a good reason for not using one. Several motorcycle brands have something slightly similar so it wasn't just Harley that used that.
What year and model is this? Do you prefer the 88? If so why? Thanks. I am trying to decide what to get next. I had a 2005 Softail and it was fine as long as I stayed under 60-65 when It would buzz the foot pegs something fierce at any over that speed?
Mine is a 1999 Dyna Super Glide. I have never had a softail so can’t compare but I know it’s a rigid mounted engine with balance shafts (88B engine). Dynas have 88A engines, no balancer and are rubber mounted. At idle the engine is jumping around and everything is shaking but once you are rolling on the road it smooths out to a very enjoyable ride at pretty much any speed. It has that pleasant vibration through the handlebars, foot pegs never caused any trouble. I love mine because 88 is still a carb model and has that characteristic vibration and sound. I wouldn’t change it for anything.
@@dry509 I only have 7000 miles only the clock and checked the tensioners at 6000, they were ok. But I’m planning to convert to hydraulic next winter because not only are the the spring loaded tensioners a weak link but also the camshaft inner bearings can bite the dust any time. Once you do the conversion though, engine becomes pretty bulletproof.
@@dry509 Any Dyna from 1999 to 2006. Hopefully you find a good one that has already been upgraded with hydraulic tensioners or gear drive. If not, you will need to factor in the cost getting it done yourself.
Wouldn't be surprised if the fuel in the oil from blow by trashes the plastic. Seen videos of 3 turns out and up the idle jet. If you can smell unburned fuel on the dipstick it's not good.
I have an 02 Road King with 88TC, Mileage was in low 30s K when I got it.. Now 5 years later it has almost 57k on it.. I feel confident someone (previous owner) did something to it, I have not been able to look up any service records, HD has none anyway.. However I would like to inspect and see at least what it was upgraded with and if it needs service.
One thing you can look at to indicate someone has been in the cam chest.. Look at the pushrod assembly/cover tubes. 99% of the time when they go in to the cam chest … to avoid cost and time of taking off the rocker arm assembly they use cut the factory pushrods and install the adjustable ones... which have a DIFFERENT cover tube... the Clip secton is a lot longer. Easy to see and determine.. Does this help?? No kidding.. you do NOT want a tensioner to wear thru... results can be very costly... Good luck!!
pardon... miss worded a bit... those pushrods are used when they change out to either gear drive or upgrade anything inside the cam chest is what I meant to say.. Good luck sir... hope this helps a bit
When are people going to figure out that you can remove those tensioners and run these engines without them. The engineers that designed these gears and that chain measurement never intended for some tensioner to be used on the non tension side of those chains. The tensioners was created by sales marketing competition to get rid of the sonic hum. I removed all my tensioners on my early 2000,s 88 TC engines and they do well
Timing chains need to have tensioners. Not only do they control timing stability, but they also improve resistance to wear. Yes, you might be able to run your bike without the tensioners for a while, but your chain and sprockets will wear out much faster due to the slack (tensioners absorb shock and vibration as well), and eventually it can jump having the piston and valves collide with each other.
I think i can get to all the hex bolts without taking off the exhaust!! One or two bolts are a little close to the exhaust but i stuck a long Allen wrench on the bolts and cracked them lose. I,m hoping I can do it that way because i fear not being able to get the exhaust back on correctly. If I can see and do what i have to without taking off the exhaust Great. If I need to change them well, I guess the exhaust will have to come off for sure then. I am looking for the cheapest way to do the work. I know without adjustable push rods there is more work involved but I am on disability and don't make crazy money anymore. Although it looks like i can get to all the bolts with the exhaust still connected, I am hoping i don't have to beat the cam cover off with a rubber mallet cause then I will definitely take the exhaust off!! I don't know why I am scared to take the exhaust off, but I AM LOL. I used to have a good friend that knew Harleys inside and out and had the tools to do what has to be done and he and I used to work on my bike all the time, then go for a ride. I've since moved 1200 miles away and have no friends like that where I am now, so I'm on my own. I pray my tensioners are okay but it is a 2001 with 24000 miles so I'm thinking they definitely have to be replaced. If I want to ride I'm going to have to do it myself cause being on disability I sure can't afford a Harley mechanic.
You can try without the exhaust off but I think it’s going to be a struggle. Taking the exhaust off and putting it back on is not much or difficult work. Plus, at least you get a little practice for next time when actually replacing the shoes. It’s always better to do it the right way.
@@aronsgarage834 It's done already Got it off no problem. Exhaust is still on. I just had to look at the tensioners. JUST in TIME too. The primary was about to grenade. If I had started that bike one more time I think that would've done the trick and i could've used my motor for a boat anchor. Harley is picking it up for me Monday. I thought about attempting the repair myself but..... They are just going to put new stock tensioners on, Didn't have the money for the upgrade since I just became disabled. They are charging $180 for both tensioners and 6 hours labor.. about $1000 bucks. I ll know the job will be done right!! LoL
@@aronsgarage834 Thank you so much for your replies!! I do appreciate it. Taking the time to help me!! I will message you and let you know how everything turns out when I get the bike back. I'm praying once they break into the chest there's nothing else that needs work. Lol. Thanks again!!!
The preparation for removing the plate is a couple of grulling hours. A large list of tool and when you do get the heaers bolts off you have to pry them off the engine. Just saying for thos who want to tackle this be prepared.
My 2005 Road King Custom's tensioner broke and it cost me $1,100 to fix - damn Harley dealer sold it to me without telling me it had to be replaced and it broke 1000 miles after buying it used - bastards!
What happened when it broke ? In a sense what did they end up having to fix..?. I'm thinking of doing Mine in the winter but I just bought my 2005 RK classic and dont know if its really bad or not
I would never attempt to do that. It may run for a while without tensioners but then as the chains stretch it can jump timing causing a lot of trouble.
@@aronsgarage834 they are very short triple row chains. and after 20 thousand miles, we see very little sloop in the chain tension. We are going to continue this method, and continue to document the results as a result of milage. We will soon see enough if they really are required or not.........
Hmm, very interesting. If you’ve passed the 20k test and still going strong it sounds quite promising. How frequently do you check them, every 10k? When do you think you’ll reach 40k?
@@aronsgarage834 don't know when I will see 40K miles.......but when I get there, yes I will re-check ; given I have to pull the cam plate completely out, as to check the rear cam chain as well................in the mean time , just one lest issue to worry about......
@@aronsgarage834 You forget to mention their are two (2) sets of triple row chains ; one in back and one in front. We did not measure amount of slack at 6 miles. But at 20 thousand miles, and these chains so short, we did measure a small amount of slack, and etched that number on the case. So, when we get to 40 or 50 thousand miles, we can calculate the delta, if any.....Otherwise, we see no real useful purpose of these chain tensioners ; other than just another factory installed hand-grenade waiting to blow-up inside the motor...........................
I would NEVER get close to that cavity with ANYTHING that can slip out of your hand and fall down in the hole. I'd tape a string or chain or anything to it.
you are excellent at presenting the task at hand, thank you
I appreciate that, thank you
Kevin Baxter from "Pro Twin" mentioned that some people have gone as far as polishing with jewelers polish and wheel, the outside of the chain (your particular type).
Makes sense to me as a cheap way to extend the life of your shoes.
Thank you for an informative video on how to properly make this crucial check of the cam chain tensioners.
I’m glad you found the video helpful. Yes, I’ve heard about that too. It’s definitely worth doing it if you’re not converting it to hydraulic or gear drive.
Great video dude ! I found this link on a hd forum about cam tensioner failure..saved me a ton of cash and sleepless nights ! Thanks brother..I've shared the link for this a few times ...scary shit a dishonest shop could check this same way in 30 min and tell u they were bad and charge 600 or more and litterly do nothing
Thanks Matthew, I appreciate that! And you’re absolutely right!
No thank you dude, I've shared this in a few groups .. not normally into be friends with strangers on fb , but hit me up matt lee lol
There are too many of you on FB lol . Easier if you friend me Aron Vetesi. Cheers
Thanks for this... im buying my 1st TC88 and have heard about these issues...appreciate the knowledge...cheers.
A buddy of mine that has a 2006 Ultra change his at 50k and forgot all about it and at 117 the tensioners fell apart and the metal went through and destroyed a perfect running tc88 that had a lot of life left in her. We replaced it with a S&S 111 and it's a Runner now. Long story short $8500.00 later. Change the tentioners.
Definitely worth keeping strict service intervals and change them well before it’s recommended.
@@aronsgarage834 if you're changing your oil when you're suppose to and not leaving in for two years because you didn't ride it much last year! The bike will give you a lifetime of enjoyment. I have a Softail Duece that I bought in 2001 and even though it sits forever because I have other bikes I still change the oil once a year just like my Ultra that is my old faithful.
@@marvinr5054 I couldn’t agree more. The saying goes for everything, what you put in is what you get out.
Great video, I check mine every second year but haven't lifted the tensioners yet. I already got the new SE kit home that will be installed in the future
I see that this an old video but I just had my mechanical tensioner replaced with the hydraulic replacement. It wasn't cheap but wasn't as bad as paying Harley to put new bars (12") on my '04 Road King. I had the stainless braided control cables instead of the black plastic. it is pretty bright to begin with. I've only ridden it home and started it again tonight, but the motor is so much quieter than it was. Granted my tensioner was ate up so that is to be expected. The reason I'm posting is I had that done at 24k miles or so and "if done right" I covered a lot of issues and don't have to worry about it again for a long time. I found this video by accident, I wasn't actually looking for this one and it is a good video, but on the 88 I suggest you put the hydraulic kit in. It replaces a lot of parts that may cause you an issue in the future. I have a bad back and no place to work on it so it cost me about $2 grand for the dealer to do it, but I got some help I think. Sounds like it was worth it so far though.
Glad you did the conversion early. Yes, I made made the video after buying my Harley 4.5 years ago. I’m actually doing the hydraulic conversion myself next spring which I’m planning to film. Got all the parts for it now, just need the time.
This was really useful, i will check those shoes as soon as i can... Thank You so much for this video
You’re very welcome
Thank you, a very helpful and clear video!!!
Thanks Karl. I'm glad it was helpful for you. All the best. Aron
Hi Aron, actually my name is Michael ;-) But thanks again for the great video! Greetings from Belgium!
Sorry Michael. Greetings from London :) Happy riding in 2019!
You too Aron! Ride safe!
thanks for the video, I had to drain the oil to do this but the video helped a lot!
I’m glad it was helpful!
Good vid! I appreciate that you didn't film all the simple stuff! Thx
Thanks!
Great info I have to do this because I have some noise,, thank you very much for the video..💯
Absolutely. Let me know what you find in there. Hopefully nothing serious.. 🤞
Awesome!! Thank you for sharing!! Will be a huge help for me
Harley-Davidson never should have gotten away from the evolution design with gears, all they had to do was bump up the design. As we all know the new Milwaukee 8 has basically went back to a gear design with less maintenance, even if you have to check the M8 it’s just one chain and one tensioner on the outside of plate for easy checking.
Secondly, Harley-Davidson needs to get rid of the chain primary and 3 hole oil fill because Indian, Victory , Honda, and Yamaha have done it which is why they take away sales from Harley-Davidson to this day.
Victory no longer exists.
@@omarsalgado9715 all of Indians new bikes are victory’s
I replaced mine with the hydraulic tensioner upgrade and there is a lot less worry about failure and tensioner wear. Cam plate with high pressure oil pump, hydraulic tensioners and cam upgrade. Well worth the money to upgrade.
Totally agreed. Not being a gear head myself... I went the next step... with having a gear drive set installed. I felt that while I had the cam chest open, get rid of the offending parts!. It is not a cheap upgrade I grant you .. but its hard to put a $$ figure on peace of mind.
Stupid question, probably. But whats the fastest way to know if an 88 has been upgraded to the hydraulic tensioner? I recently bought an 05 road king and the bike had been completely disassembled and rebuilt and with add ons and upgrades. It has a 6 speed gear box now, as one example. So it makes me wonder, did he fix this well known tensioner issue while he was in there, also? Can i tell without pulling the cover?
@@rrmorris67 without pulling cover?? I dont think it possible.
Thought id ask. Thanks.
@@rrmorris67 The only way that I know of is to remove the cam inspection plate and visually look to see if the tensioners are spring loaded or if they have been converted to the hydraulic system.
Will be checking mine out soon.
If you have to replace them , buy updated hydraulic setup, bolt cutters, and a adjustable push rods kit to do the job if not removing tank , rockers etc... if you do then install rocker lockers kit !
You can also get a cheap USB borescope online (
Great idea. Thanks for the tip. This is what I like about this community, we can always support each other and learn new things. Happy New Year!
Nice! Many thanks for info! 🥰
Welcome:)
Very informative video. Thank you. At what mileage do these tensioners tend to wear to the point of replacement?
That’s the problem. They wear off at random times. Some at 30k some as early as 10k. So the longer term solution is converting it to either hydraulic or gear drive.
@@aronsgarage834 Got it. Thank you
Very clear video! Thanks! Did you replace the cover gasket and do you have to drain the oil?
Thank you! You don't need to drain the oil. As you're taking off the cover, though, a bit of oil will come out (50-100ml tops). Yes, you need a new gasket or use a gasket sealant (which I actually prefer).
@Calvin hi Calvin, the only time you need remove the camplate if you want to replace the rear shoe. However, in order to do that, first you need to take out the pushrods. It's a big job. Only checking them, on the other hand, is real simple.
@Calvin I totally get you. When I learned about all these, I myself too thought about abandoning it, or swapping it for a Sportster (bulletproof) but I do love my Dyna. I might do the gear conversion challenge at some point, and afterwards It'll be low maintenance. You did crack me up with the hobby part..but I agree
@@aronsgarage834 what is a gasket sealer
What gasket sealer do you prefer?
I'm about to change my tensioners out just for good measure...I'm at 25,000 mi, so I figure when I check them, might as well change them while I'm there & then I'll know it'll be a while before I have to crack this thing open again & give me some time to save up for a gear drive conversion...great hack on the tool...how old is this bike & it's only got 5,000 miles on it? Need to get out & put some more wear on those tensioners! Lol!
Yeah, good idea to change them while you are in there. I have now gathered all the parts for the hydraulic conversion, which I’m planning to do and record next spring.
I bought the bike 5 and a half years ago with 1500 miles on the clock believe it or not! 😃 I now got around 8000, still like new lol
It’s a 1999 Super Glide. What year is yours?
some great info, thanks.
If I'm opening up the cam chest the cam plate, cams, and oil pump are all coming out for close inspection. The inner cam bearings are getting replaced.
I understand the front chain because of Crank run-out but making the rear-drive a chain was a really stupid idea Harley Davidson
Agree. They really should have kept the gear drive from EVO. Bulletproof.
Thank the EPA noise requirements
@Krieger I totally agree which is one of the reasons I used all aftermarket parts the other reason is I felt the aftermarket parts were actually better quality
@@dickjohnson5025 Nope. Bean counter / bigger profit requirements. And it is truly a disgrace that Harley went that route on so many fronts on the Twin Cams and M8's considering its a premium brand with premium price tags dangling from them handlebars. Heck, the Yamaha Road Star (air cooled/pushrods/single/crank/no counter balancers/belt final drive) had cam driven gears when they made those fantastic bikes (1999-2015).
Heres some insight from my school bus mechanic father. When ever possible never pry steel metal, like tools against aluminum motor cases. So before you pried with screwdriver he would place some kind of contact protection pad. Hes had one too many, "Oops" moments! One thing no one shows is "hard to remove, because of heat, exhaust pipe mounting bolts. The rubber boot around electrical unit by oil filter is poorly designed closure. These pads are poor design. Im replacing pads with accessory plate hydraulic pads. I'd like to put chain drive, but not cost effective?
Great video you have some excellent input on all your video it sure help me I learn from this, thanks for upload this.
Thank you!
Great video, watched twice so far! Just bought an 01 RK and it appears to have been well taken care of. I can tell the carb has been modified, and it has nice flow intake and exhaust. 23.000 miles …No service records though. Can I possible see if tensioners have been upgraded by removing the small cover on the cam box cover? I'm definitely going with a borescope idea too!
Hi Eric, Thanks! That was my very first video. Probably not the best but really wanted help others with this. No, unfortunately you can’t check through that small cover. You need to the do the whole process. Fingers crossed yours has been converted! Let me know, Aron
Very helpful vid, thank you
It looks like I see the opening of the cross over pipe at the start of your video in the lower left hand corner at the start of your video? Are you able to take off the front header without removing the rear? The manual says to remove the entire exhaust, but I'd rather not mess with seating two exhaust gaskets and handling the whole system if I don't have to. I have 20K on my bike and am thinking about getting a Feuling 7088 kit, but at the very least, it's time to take a look. I can't tell if the center clamp on the cross over clamps the two pipe together or just holds the heat shield. Thanks.
Yes, you can leave the rear one on there. Undo the clamp on the cross over and it comes apart. Makes life easier 👍
Is there some sort of oil beneath that cam cover? Or can I just pop the cover off and it's dry?
Yes, there is oil in there.
@@aronsgarage834 is that motor oil? Where's it coming from so I can replace it.
Yes, engine oil. Comes from the oil tank and gets circulated by the oil pump. If you have your bike on jiffy stand, there won’t be much coming out.
@@aronsgarage834 is the goal to keep it completely level?
No, you need to check the dipstick once you’ve assembled, and refill accordingly.
Very clear thanks ride hard and free.
I appreciate it. Same to you. Ride safe.
It looks like you took off the exhaust, the peg and rear brake pedal . Is that right -rear brake pedal as well?
Yes, you need to get all those out of the way.
That tool made from a plummers faucet wrench is a good idea.
Good video, thanks. I wonder how hard it would be to replace the just outside cam tensioner? Considering you have it apart.
Thanks. It's pretty easy. You take off the two cam sprockets and remove the tensioner (need a pair of circlip pliers). I did it once when I replaced the oil pressure relief spring. It was in the way. Hope this helps.
But its the inside one thats usually worse
@@DMD81773 our luck
I assume that the cam plate would have to be completely removed to replace both shoes ?
Unfortunately yes. You can’t remove the inner shoe otherwise. Which is why most people convert it to hydraulic or gear drive while they’re at it.
@@aronsgarage834 Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I can’t invest in a $2k upgrade at this time.
Sure. If you can do it yourself though you’ll reduce the cost to around $800. I’m going to do mine in the near future. I’ll most likely record it and upload the videos.
You got me thinking about acessing a view of the inside tensioner. I Have a inexoensive Endo-scope that plugs into my cell phone. I'm going to give it a try. I've also heard that both shoes wear pretty evenly. So the outside probably tells us what the indisde one looks like. Thx
Yes, that should work pretty good. The thing is I heard people having had the inside wear out faster. I guess it all depends on the camchains they installed. Some of them had really rough edges, just randomly from manufacturing.
If it is grooved is that time to replace it
Depends how much it is grooved and worn off, but it’s definitely time to think about and plan when and what kit you’re going to replace them with. Whether or not to convert to hydraulic or gear drive, which most of us do
At 10 k miles and 18 years old mine looked fine. I replaced the outside one because it was so easy. The inside one I left alone a lot more work. Usually they give you a warning by making a noise when worn through. If I had to do it again I would not check till 20k miles.
I have a HD 2003 Softail Classic FLSTC. Does it matter what gear my bike is in when I'm doing a clutch adjustment?
It doesn’t matter.
when i put my gear drive cam in the shoe was cracked in half. How many minutes till my motor blew up.
Lucky to catch that just in time. I’m glad you saved your motor. At how many miles was that?
@@aronsgarage834 30,000
@@JCunningham21 what model bike and what year?
@@garynorton8122 03 road king
@@JCunningham21 I just bought an 2001 Road King with 44k. I'm going to have to look I'm guessing.
I am not much of a mechanic... do you know approximately how much it costs to have them changed? How many hours labor involved?
Not really sure. I have heard roughly around 800. I have not changed them or done the conversion yet ( I’ll convert it to hydraulic soon though). I will anticipate at least 6 hours..
How do you change the inside tentuner
Need to pull the camchest unfortunately, so a pretty big job. Which is why most people while they are at it, they end up doing the conversion to either gear drive or hydraulic tensioners.
Yeah they want $400 to check my tc88 tensioners 🤣 and they wonder why the dealership gets a bad name
That’s a little steep! Yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I’ve always worked on all of my bikes, never let anyone touch them lol
$240 here in UK
Only takes an hour to do it. Easily done at home.
@@aronsgarage834 took them a lot longer than that to take off exhaust and cam cover.
Guy over here does the complete job ( replace outer and inner ) plus cam bearing Inc pads and springs ( tank off ) £500
That’s not bad for the complete job.
эх, гдеж ты раньше был с этим видео, когда я не знал как посмотреть задний башмак.. до меня дошло что можно было так сделать только после того как все разобрал.. а старый башмак, который я поменял, еще походил бы..😁
russkij vojenyj karabl, idi nachui !!
oh, ya..... as a side note , i pulled this cam chain tensioner off my 1999 fxdl.
it run just fine without them...
Do u not need cam chain tensionerss
@@gilbertquick2412 nope...... apparently not....i put another 10k miles on that bike until i sold it in Denver, Co......
If worn out could I just pin them back and leave it
@@gilbertquick2412 Not Possible ...
There is one in front of cam plate , and one in back of cam plate. YOu must pull the cam plate all the way out to remove the back one... and since the cam plate is pulled, I suggest owners go ahead and pull tin plated cam bearings and replace with case hardened timken cam bearings...
No, it doesn’t, anyone reading this do NOT run the motor without the tensioners. Just imagine the chains flopping all around in there, yea. And if even remotely true, imagine how screwed the guy that bought the bike was. This is either really bad trolling or a very inept individual.
Plastic chain tensioners who in God's world came up with that idea
Honda's have them and so do victory's! Believe it or not it's not bad but these tensioners are much too small.
The idea would be to have something that would wear down before the metal chain.
A roller bearing would have been better if you ask me but I'm sure there was a good reason for not using one. Several motorcycle brands have something slightly similar so it wasn't just Harley that used that.
some $$$$$ saving measure i'm sure. Cheaped out
What year and model is this? Do you prefer the 88? If so why? Thanks. I am trying to decide what to get next. I had a 2005 Softail and it was fine as long as I stayed under 60-65 when It would buzz the foot pegs something fierce at any over that speed?
Mine is a 1999 Dyna Super Glide. I have never had a softail so can’t compare but I know it’s a rigid mounted engine with balance shafts (88B engine). Dynas have 88A engines, no balancer and are rubber mounted. At idle the engine is jumping around and everything is shaking but once you are rolling on the road it smooths out to a very enjoyable ride at pretty much any speed. It has that pleasant vibration through the handlebars, foot pegs never caused any trouble. I love mine because 88 is still a carb model and has that characteristic vibration and sound. I wouldn’t change it for anything.
@@aronsgarage834 Thanks for your reply. Good to know about your 88 dyna and glad to hear it smooths out. Have you had to change the tensioner yet?
@@dry509 I only have 7000 miles only the clock and checked the tensioners at 6000, they were ok. But I’m planning to convert to hydraulic next winter because not only are the the spring loaded tensioners a weak link but also the camshaft inner bearings can bite the dust any time. Once you do the conversion though, engine becomes pretty bulletproof.
@@aronsgarage834 Great to know thanks. I would like to find one like yours. Is 99 the only year you recommend that is like yours or ?
@@dry509 Any Dyna from 1999 to 2006. Hopefully you find a good one that has already been upgraded with hydraulic tensioners or gear drive. If not, you will need to factor in the cost getting it done yourself.
Wouldn't be surprised if the fuel in the oil from blow by trashes the plastic. Seen videos of 3 turns out and up the idle jet.
If you can smell unburned fuel on the dipstick it's not good.
TC 88 designed by a high school flunkie. Replace shoes every 25-35k and need to rip half engine apart to do it???
If they ever last that long with all the other issues in early TC88…got mine apart now, taking care of all the issues once and for all.
I have an 02 Road King with 88TC, Mileage was in low 30s K when I got it.. Now 5 years later it has almost 57k on it.. I feel confident someone (previous owner) did something to it, I have not been able to look up any service records, HD has none anyway.. However I would like to inspect and see at least what it was upgraded with and if it needs service.
One thing you can look at to indicate someone has been in the cam chest.. Look at the pushrod assembly/cover tubes. 99% of the time when they go in to the cam chest … to avoid cost and time of taking off the rocker arm assembly they use cut the factory pushrods and install the adjustable ones... which have a DIFFERENT cover tube... the Clip secton is a lot longer. Easy to see and determine.. Does this help?? No kidding.. you do NOT want a tensioner to wear thru... results can be very costly... Good luck!!
pardon... miss worded a bit... those pushrods are used when they change out to either gear drive or upgrade anything inside the cam chest is what I meant to say.. Good luck sir... hope this helps a bit
When are people going to figure out that you can remove those tensioners and run these engines without them. The engineers that designed these gears and that chain measurement never intended for some tensioner to be used on the non tension side of those chains. The tensioners was created by sales marketing competition to get rid of the sonic hum. I removed all my tensioners on my early 2000,s 88 TC engines and they do well
Timing chains need to have tensioners. Not only do they control timing stability, but they also improve resistance to wear. Yes, you might be able to run your bike without the tensioners for a while, but your chain and sprockets will wear out much faster due to the slack (tensioners absorb shock and vibration as well), and eventually it can jump having the piston and valves collide with each other.
@@aronsgarage834 Muted
29000 mine was worn out/breaking up
Thanks
I think i can get to all the hex bolts without taking off the exhaust!! One or two bolts are a little close to the exhaust but i stuck a long Allen wrench on the bolts and cracked them lose. I,m hoping I can do it that way because i fear not being able to get the exhaust back on correctly. If I can see and do what i have to without taking off the exhaust Great. If I need to change them well, I guess the exhaust will have to come off for sure then. I am looking for the cheapest way to do the work. I know without adjustable push rods there is more work involved but I am on disability and don't make crazy money anymore. Although it looks like i can get to all the bolts with the exhaust still connected, I am hoping i don't have to beat the cam cover off with a rubber mallet cause then I will definitely take the exhaust off!! I don't know why I am scared to take the exhaust off, but I AM LOL. I used to have a good friend that knew Harleys inside and out and had the tools to do what has to be done and he and I used to work on my bike all the time, then go for a ride. I've since moved 1200 miles away and have no friends like that where I am now, so I'm on my own. I pray my tensioners are okay but it is a 2001 with 24000 miles so I'm thinking they definitely have to be replaced. If I want to ride I'm going to have to do it myself cause being on disability I sure can't afford a Harley mechanic.
You can try without the exhaust off but I think it’s going to be a struggle. Taking the exhaust off and putting it back on is not much or difficult work. Plus, at least you get a little practice for next time when actually replacing the shoes. It’s always better to do it the right way.
@@aronsgarage834 It's done already Got it off no problem. Exhaust is still on. I just had to look at the tensioners. JUST in TIME too. The primary was about to grenade. If I had started that bike one more time I think that would've done the trick and i could've used my motor for a boat anchor. Harley is picking it up for me Monday. I thought about attempting the repair myself but..... They are just going to put new stock tensioners on, Didn't have the money for the upgrade since I just became disabled. They are charging $180 for both tensioners and 6 hours labor.. about $1000 bucks. I ll know the job will be done right!! LoL
@@elliottnunez1057 yeah, that’s probably your best bet then! It’s good that you caught this just in time. One more motor saved! :)
@@aronsgarage834 Thank you so much for your replies!! I do appreciate it. Taking the time to help me!! I will message you and let you know how everything turns out when I get the bike back. I'm praying once they break into the chest there's nothing else that needs work. Lol. Thanks again!!!
My pleasure, Elliott. Always happy to help. Yes, let me know when you get the bike back. Fingers crossed all good inside!
The preparation for removing the plate is a couple of grulling hours. A large list of tool and when you do get the heaers bolts off you have to pry them off the engine. Just saying for thos who want to tackle this be prepared.
Thank you for that.
It’s not that hard.
My 2005 Road King Custom's tensioner broke and it cost me $1,100 to fix - damn Harley dealer sold it to me without telling me it had to be replaced and it broke 1000 miles after buying it used - bastards!
Sorry to hear that. Did they just replace the tensioner or convert the whole unit to hydraulic? I’m going to convert mine to gear drive at some point.
What happened when it broke ? In a sense what did they end up having to fix..?. I'm thinking of doing Mine in the winter but I just bought my 2005 RK classic and dont know if its really bad or not
🏁👍
Harley really screwed up this design. Nice vid though
Thanks. I know what you mean. They moved away from the good old EVO.
good. now make a video of how to pull both spring loaded tensioners , and show the motor running without them.
I would never attempt to do that. It may run for a while without tensioners but then as the chains stretch it can jump timing causing a lot of trouble.
@@aronsgarage834 they are very short triple row chains. and after 20 thousand miles, we see very little sloop in the chain tension. We are going to continue this method, and continue to document the results as a result of milage. We will soon see enough if they really are required or not.........
Hmm, very interesting. If you’ve passed the 20k test and still going strong it sounds quite promising. How frequently do you check them, every 10k? When do you think you’ll reach 40k?
@@aronsgarage834 don't know when I will see 40K miles.......but when I get there, yes I will re-check ; given I have to pull the cam plate completely out, as to check the rear cam chain as well................in the mean time , just one lest issue to worry about......
@@aronsgarage834 You forget to mention their are two (2) sets of triple row chains ; one in back and one in front. We did not measure amount of slack at 6 miles. But at 20 thousand miles, and these chains so short, we did measure a small amount of slack, and etched that number on the case. So, when we get to 40 or 50 thousand miles, we can calculate the delta, if any.....Otherwise, we see no real useful purpose of these chain tensioners ; other than just another factory installed hand-grenade waiting to blow-up inside the motor...........................
Harley davidson are the yugos of the motorcycle industry
I checked the tensioners on my former 1999 , by pulling both of them , and throw them away.
Did you covert to hydraulic or gear drive? Or just changed the shoes?
@@aronsgarage834 I Threw The Shoes Away......No shoes....No spring tensioner....."nothing"......Get IT ????????
I get it now. Thank you for explaining.
I would NEVER get close to that cavity with ANYTHING that can slip out of your hand and fall down in the hole. I'd tape a string or chain or anything to it.
It can't go anywhere
Ridiculous design!!! if I was doing the designing I would have made where you can replace both tensioners without pulling out all the cam chest.
Absolutely! That would have made maintenance so much easier..
Cam in the block, when was this engine invented 1936, Oh yeah that is right, in 2020 engines have their cams on the head, where they belong
Ok, mister engineer.
Just like a Chevy ls it works.
Cant see a Dam thing with your hands in the way !!!!!
Thank you for your feedback. I’ll keep that in mind for future reference.
First of it's damn, not dam. He's showing you how to look, not how they look on the demo motor. Thanks for playing though.