This makes my heart hurt. I was born well after the new form of the Mass, and yet I still remember as a child how the parish church removed the statues, built a new semi-circle design with the tabernacle in a separate room, no high altar, no statutes except a modern abstract crucifix, and the same songs over and over and over... I am sad about these losses - not to mention the neglect of the actual teachings of the Church and a holy fear and love of God. I was finally confirmed as an adult slowly discovering what I should have learned from the beginning. The few in the pew and yet so few know the truth.
Holy Faith TV JMJ ✝. Hi Holy Faith TV! (Side Note: You have a great channel too 🕊!) I live two hours away from T.O., but have never been to any of the Churches up there. We do have a Latin Mass which takes place at a Church located a half hour away from me. Would be nice to explore the beautiful Churches (with High Altars) located nearby and throughout Canada 🇨🇦 someday for sure!
canadagirl1973 if you are in the London area check out our admin Carl Vanderwouden's work. He has some amazing photography of churches throughout Ontario and Quebec. You can see his work on our Facebook page
I also find it hypocritical that people claim that the new Mass is supposed to be for the young, yet no one mentions that the hymnal usually used where I live has no songs made after the 90's. Some of us millennials would think that such liturgies are just a form of Babyboomer arrogance and narcissism, because indeed the "new" liturgies really just got stuck in the 60's. No wonder why people go to Protestant and Pentecostal churches instead, they have newer songs.
Every pope, from St. Peter to St. John XXIII said the Old Rite in some form. Wheter that be through the Eastern, Western, or possibly even the Oriental Rite they all said the Mass in a Traditional way with links to the Apostles. It's over 260 popes vs 5 popes (one of which allegedly wanted to roll back the New Mass)
St Peter said the Latin Mass? Really? Thats a bold statement if you want to claim our current Mass is not connected to the historical Masses. It clearly is more similar to the Latin Mass than anything the early Church did. They are all similar in the one way that matters, doing what Jesus said to do in memory of Him.
Reading Mary Ball Martinez's book of the 1990s The Destruction of the Catholic Church. The PDF is free online. She explained who did the destruction. The same ones who killed Jesus our Lord and Saviour. Planned over many years and still going on.
I often wonder how a Tridentine Mass can be celebrated if the prophecy of war comes to reality and churches are destroyed...can a Latin Mass with all it's beauty and sacred liturgies be celebrated with an ordinary table, simple linen cloth and ordinary candles.. absence of all the incense and majestic altar....the Priests will now be facing empty walls...good thing the Novus Ordo are not too demanding on the beauty of sacred liturgy & traditions but the central focus is on the Eucharist alone regardless of physical settings...Godbless!
Thank you for defending the Novus Ordo. There are too many arguments against the Novus Ordo and the Vatican II, makes me dizzy. Like....we get it...the Tridentine Mass was celebrated for a millennium...the center SHOULD always be the Eucharist. But I do agree with the fall out of the Church since the Novus Ordo inception at the same time. I went to an Episcopal Church just to visit and it was more demanding and disciplined or....high mass like than the regular Catholic Mass. It was interesting experience. I do believe we are at a cross roads, which way should the church go. People are leaving in droves and it's sad. Look at the state of the Irish Catholic Church. Ireland has almost completely irradicated Catholicism and it's very sad. I'd extend that to Europe in general. The Church NEEDS to be more aggressive I believe. So introducing the arguments against Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. If and when the New Mass goes away, I'll weep because it's meant so much to me growing up.
@Jong I think you are mistaking extraneous circumstances with rubrics that set the standard. The TLM rubrics and even the Novus Ordo rubrics are meant to describe standard use i.e. when everything is happening normally. During times of war or other extraneous circumstances, many dispensations would be given anyway. So the fact that the Novus Ordo prescribes minimalism or _ugliness_ in this regard is then a problem. You also have to realize that the beauty and tradition is not meant to take away the focus from the Eucharistic sacrifice. To the contrary, the beauty and tradition conveys the truths about the Eucharistic sacrifice even better. It is not a competition between tradition and beauty vs. Eucharistic sacrifice.
@tipofmytongue1024 I grew up with the Novus Ordo as well. In fact, I was one of the folks that thought the entire idea of using Latin and the priest facing the liturgical East instead of the faithful was moronic. I attended the TLM when I was older and honestly thought it was difficult for me to follow etc. But, what I have come to realize is that the liturgy is not a matter of preference. It is more of a matter of correct form of worship vs. incorrect form of worship, or efficacious form of worship vs. not so efficacious forms of worship. From that perspective, it was pretty clear what to choose. I continued to struggle my way through attending the TLM and today, I have come to appreciate and love what it offers. I still attend the Novus Ordo on weekdays and I am also better able to appreciate the deficiencies in it as well. So what I am trying to say is that what you feel in a sense is nostalgia. But, if you were to choose objectively, you will not find yourself missing the Novus Ordo.
Eufrosnia D I agree on this statement "You also have to realize that the beauty and tradition is not meant to take away the focus from the Eucharistic sacrifice".... but on this statement "So the fact that the Novus Ordo prescribes minimalism or ugliness in this regard is then a problem." As much as I want to comprehend from what source do you get this...Personally, I view the development of the Novus Ordo in light of Satan conversation in 1884 overheard by Pope Leo XIII...Satan was about to give-up he cannot penetrate the Vatican inside to destroy it (Mt16:18)...so Satan ask God for more power...the Novus Ordo is a way of giving Satan a hold in the church by dividing it, God allows this to keep Satan pursuing to destroy the Church as prophesied in 2Thess 2:1-11 without this passages Satan would voluntary go to hell remember he produces a lot of saints & martyrs already and, he is already defeated...but God has to Redeemed the Church(The Mystical Body) it has to suffer the same persecution, passions, crucifixion & death as Jesus Christ freely offered for our redemption, the Church in a Mysterious God's design has to follow the same path for a Glorious Church to emerge.After this final tribulation the Marriage of the Glorious Head(Jesus) is now ready to take on the Glorious Body(RCC). and the reign of Christ will starts...but how about Satan in the Thessalonian prophesy?...As much as I want to believe Satan can takeover the Seat of Peter, my faith tells me otherwise Mama Mary would come just when Satan was about to Seat...and infront of all the demons & wicked persons Satans proudhead will be crushed...the living of all faith who witness this victory will proclaim the 5th Dogma...'In the end My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph"..we don't see the big pictures God only reveals His plan to the humble"Godbless! S&IHMMP4us.Amen
Eufrosnia D plus one more thing for you to appreciate the Vatican II in its fullness not only the Novus Ordo...Satan in 1884 trembles in fear after seeing millions of people wearing the symbol of his defeat "The Miraculous Medal"...he wanted to clarify to God if he was about to destroy his reign as prohesied in Genesis 3:15...the 19th century is the Age of Mary...Satan and his demons know who Mary is AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS?...the Woman...the Sovereign Queen of all angels...Satan is only a Cherub like Archangel Gabriel he must bow down to the Woman Crown with Twelve Stars w/ the moon under her feet...Queen of Heaven & Earth...but God said to Satan trembling in fear but still arrogant...calm down lonely creature your role is not yet complete you still have to destroy my Church remember 2Thess 2:1-11...Satan has to do God's bidding he is an ape of God remember CCC..but Satan said, ok give me more power and in 75 to 100 years I will destroy your Church...and so here we are 2017 is over but Satan has failed to destroy it...so were living now in the Time of Mercy...waiting for the Second Pentecost to equipped all the True Soldier of Christ for the Final Battle, as our beloved Pope Francis signal the start by praying the upgraded prayer "Our Father, DO NOT ALLOW US TO FALL UNDER A MILITARY ATTACK"..The RCC will be attack...but the Immaculate Heart will shines at it's brightest and blind Satan & all his cohorts.STAY IN THE ARK, you might be deceived to go to a counterfeit catholic church..S&IHMMP4us.Amen
The liturgy has been changing since they were conceived because life changes. In parts of the Middle Ages, only the Priests took in communion - the laity received "occular communion". In other times and places, the only permissible food during Lent was communion. I think you'd find that an honest history of the Tridentine Mass would be many cumulative changes that someone dared to make. I sometimes wonder if God allowed Vatican II to happen so us Catholics could remember that we're not the keepers of a museum, but a living faith.
I agree with most of what you said with the Tridentine Mass,...it is a sacred in it's forms and faithfuls can be easily guided how one should conduct themselves in the Holy Mass reverently in adoration, which we see in most NO Mass missing..we cannot blame the Traditionalists for observing the church goers in NO disposition in participating in the celebration. It's a good point you mentioned this "But I sincerely have no idea why Latin became so sacred of it's own right, more important than the people's direct involvement with the Mass"....for me the Tridentine form was like a Royal Robe of God...it's provide believers of what kind of God we adore, a Majestic and a Holy God...but personally we can also experience deep reverence in the Novos Ordo Mass particularly if the Priests prepares well prior to celebrating the Holy Mass and the participants attending was in the state of grace. the homilies of a pious & obedient Priests radiates Christ presence more clearly...Godbless!
To be clear, I would never deny anyone a Latin Mass if that's how they felt they wanted to worship. How the NO was introduced by American Bishops was deplorable.
but in the life of King Saul there mention an offering that is not pleasing to God...that cause him the lost of Authority & God's anointing for a simple disobedience....As I said the Latin Mass is like a Royal Robe for God...in order to redeemed mankind, God willingly remove all His power and majesty as King of Kings in the form of a slave, a helpless child..in our times particularly in year 1959(75th year) were the public announcement of Vatican II was made coinciding with Pope Leo XIII vision of 1884...God once again in order to redeemed His Church (The Mystical Body) is willing and allows to remove His Royal Robe in Tridentine Mass in the form of Novus Ordo to stoop down again to the level of man's understanding to show forth His Loving Kindness & Mercies for the salvation of all the redeemed. Latin Mass can only be offered pleasing to God in the form of unity in full communion with Pope's intention and in harmony with Church Authority.If not in Full Communion with the Church the offering will be likened to King Saul human intention that falls into disobedience...Godbless!
Jarl Kilduff what heresy? I never seen any specific and definite arguments that would convince me that the Vatican Ii commited any heresy.. So far all accusations that ive read fall flat particularly if the criticism was made by the known church enemies, critics & groups who had a history of disobedience, opposition & resistance. St. Athanasius said "when there is slander, there is Satan"..all ive seen is persecution, calumny and all sorts irreverent words directed to our beloved Pope Francis. Godbless
I disagree here 26:05 : the Magisterium first protects the faith and not material things. Material expressions of the faith deserve reverence but the order is not first material and then faith. At what point does protecting physical expressions of faith become worshiping them as magical? If every Catholic building and piece of art were leveled tomorrow, I'd still have faith and I'm thinking that's how it should be.
Correct! Aesthetic/external beauty is only peripheral to the faith..what matters to God? Book of Samuel says "man look at the appearance but God looks into the heart" Jesus calling for every believers is to be perfect just like the heavenly farher is perfect...Obedience is better than sacrifice.. Samuel added. .Godbless
@@AM-os4tyYes, yet people receive the faith in part via osmosis and how they see the faith practiced and sacred art and beautiful Churches are an excellent vehicle to pass on the faith and teach the faith.
What about the Catholic who finds all the sculptures and paintings distracting? To be clear, I would never desecrate a church and find most of these pictures rich and beautiful. But I also know when I pray, I'm much more comfortable with less decoration. Am I less Catholic because I have no wish to be overwhelmed by hundreds of years of other people's church donations?
"Over time I found it very helpful for my mental prayer development by having holy images to look at." That's very good for you, I'm glad. I don't think it will be mine, because I'm a different person.
The Tridentine Mass was written for a particular culture: the ancient Roman one. It's not timeless and we may have lost many Protestants who asked themselves the reasonable question: "Why can't I understand this without a missal or a Priest?" Yes, the average of Latin Mass is much younger than NO, but it's still a fraction of that generation, and it's not busting them out the doors in most places. Plus, if the Eastern Rite folks can have a liturgy in the vernacular, why can't the Western Rite? Why not translate the old Mass into the vernacular, as it was in the original development time?
Regarding having to use a missal - I just read this quote attributed to (abbot ?) Bacquez that "by this means the words striking the eye and ear at the same time, are less exposed to pass unperceived and the care taken to discover the word we pronounce is one more safeguard against the tendency to routine." I agree with Fr. R, and I think people of today are whiners who don't want to put any effort into prayer. The Byzantine rite I attend is in English, but the prayers are much more glorious and sacred sounding.
sue200012 - That's wonderful on the your parish and it's litgury and that's my point. Somehow "only minor changes" became no changes and enforced prayer in a foreign language, that's easy to disconnect from. I have been told of people showing up for their beautiful mandatory Latin Masses...and praying the Rosary. I understand the objections to the NO. But I sincerely have no idea why Latin became so sacred of it's own right, more important than the people's direct involvement with the Mass
Nothing at all wrong with saying a rosary during Mass ( I can't remember where I read that). People are involved in the Latin Mass if they choose to be. Don't jews still use Hebrew(?)? Why? It's sacred. It's a sacred language for a sacred rite.
"Nothing at all wrong with saying a rosary during Mass " Um...doesn't that defeat the point of being there at all? That's really what God wants - for people show up and not pay attention to what's going on - in this case, the sacrifice that saved the whole world? In any other context, that's extremely rude. I don't get it. " People are involved in the Latin Mass if they choose to be. " If people want the Latin Mass, they should absolutely have it and it should be available. I absolutely would never deny anyone that. My questions are along the lines of why did the Western Catholic church refuse to _also_ offer a Mass in vernacular as the Eastern Rite has done easily and you actually attend? Why even now is there pining over a language out of temporal use for thousand years, like it's going to solve problems of reaching the modern mind? "It's sacred. It's a sacred language for a sacred rite." Languages aren't sacred. People and prayers are sacred, but not the particular language in use. Pentecost makes it very clear that we are to reach out to people in their language, not ask them to learn a new one for us.
No one is asked to learn a new language!! just look at a book. The priest offers the sacrifice. You can say the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary and be on Calvary just like those who are saying the Mass prayers, and you never know what's going on with worshippers anyway. Latin was kept because the Church is universal - same language wherever in the world the Mass was said. It is a sacred language to me; it was used by many great saints of the RC Church who attended the Latin Mass that came down to us from the earliest times.
Yup. This is 🔥. It had to be said. Thank you father.
Thank you Fr Ripperger I love Traditional Liturgy God Bless ❤
This makes my heart hurt. I was born well after the new form of the Mass, and yet I still remember as a child how the parish church removed the statues, built a new semi-circle design with the tabernacle in a separate room, no high altar, no statutes except a modern abstract crucifix, and the same songs over and over and over... I am sad about these losses - not to mention the neglect of the actual teachings of the Church and a holy fear and love of God. I was finally confirmed as an adult slowly discovering what I should have learned from the beginning. The few in the pew and yet so few know the truth.
Thank you Father. Appreciate your teaching very much, PenanceWare promised.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Amem! Thank you father, beautiful speech.
Thank you Father. We have been robbed of the sacred monuments our ancestors' built. Who in their right mind does that? PenanceWare done for you.
God bless you Father....a good minister of God.
God Bless you Fr! Thank you!
God bless Fr. Ripperger, amen (!)
Beautiful as always
Yes, the hippie mass of the seventies will get old and stale if it hasn’t already. The timeless traditional Latin mass will never age.
JMJ ✝. These Churches (High Altars!) are beautiful! Must be in the U.S. eh? 🕊!
canadagirl1973 I think most are. Where in Canada are you? Here in Toronto we have some works of beauty 😀
Holy Faith TV JMJ ✝. Hi Holy Faith TV! (Side Note: You have a great channel too 🕊!) I live two hours away from T.O., but have never been to any of the Churches up there. We do have a Latin Mass which takes place at a Church located a half hour away from me. Would be nice to explore the beautiful Churches (with High Altars) located nearby and throughout Canada 🇨🇦 someday for sure!
canadagirl1973 if you are in the London area check out our admin Carl Vanderwouden's work. He has some amazing photography of churches throughout Ontario and Quebec. You can see his work on our Facebook page
Amazing
Watching this in 2021. When the pope drops a bomb on the tlm. St. Peter and Paul, help Us. Amen
thumbnail is St. Patrick's church New Orleans, where I was received into the Church on Holy Saturday
I also find it hypocritical that people claim that the new Mass is supposed to be for the young, yet no one mentions that the hymnal usually used where I live has no songs made after the 90's. Some of us millennials would think that such liturgies are just a form of Babyboomer arrogance and narcissism, because indeed the "new" liturgies really just got stuck in the 60's. No wonder why people go to Protestant and Pentecostal churches instead, they have newer songs.
Many churches will use new songs, though perhaps not out of a hymnal.
Not a big fan of Novus Ordo here but what's the alternative option for Catholics? I've been praying and asking for 2 months now....
Same here. What if there is no TLM in my country at all. What is one supposed to do. Suffer throught the novous ordo?
Request a change through my bringing this up to your priests and bishops!!!
Every pope, from St. Peter to St. John XXIII said the Old Rite in some form. Wheter that be through the Eastern, Western, or possibly even the Oriental Rite they all said the Mass in a Traditional way with links to the Apostles. It's over 260 popes vs 5 popes (one of which allegedly wanted to roll back the New Mass)
Pope Paul VI said the TLM.
St Peter said the Latin Mass? Really? Thats a bold statement if you want to claim our current Mass is not connected to the historical Masses. It clearly is more similar to the Latin Mass than anything the early Church did. They are all similar in the one way that matters, doing what Jesus said to do in memory of Him.
Did he say "because they could be eaten or redeemed" at 9:00?
Reading Mary Ball Martinez's book of the 1990s The Destruction of the Catholic Church. The PDF is free online. She explained who did the destruction. The same ones who killed Jesus our Lord and Saviour. Planned over many years and still going on.
So the Missal of the new mass is also sacred. Thanks for clarifying this.
I often wonder how a Tridentine Mass can be celebrated if the prophecy of war comes to reality and churches are destroyed...can a Latin Mass with all it's beauty and sacred liturgies be celebrated with an ordinary table, simple linen cloth and ordinary candles.. absence of all the incense and majestic altar....the Priests will now be facing empty walls...good thing the Novus Ordo are not too demanding on the beauty of sacred liturgy & traditions but the central focus is on the Eucharist alone regardless of physical settings...Godbless!
Thank you for defending the Novus Ordo. There are too many arguments against the Novus Ordo and the Vatican II, makes me dizzy. Like....we get it...the Tridentine Mass was celebrated for a millennium...the center SHOULD always be the Eucharist.
But I do agree with the fall out of the Church since the Novus Ordo inception at the same time. I went to an Episcopal Church just to visit and it was more demanding and disciplined or....high mass like than the regular Catholic Mass. It was interesting experience.
I do believe we are at a cross roads, which way should the church go. People are leaving in droves and it's sad. Look at the state of the Irish Catholic Church. Ireland has almost completely irradicated Catholicism and it's very sad. I'd extend that to Europe in general. The Church NEEDS to be more aggressive I believe. So introducing the arguments against Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. If and when the New Mass goes away, I'll weep because it's meant so much to me growing up.
@Jong
I think you are mistaking extraneous circumstances with rubrics that set the standard. The TLM rubrics and even the Novus Ordo rubrics are meant to describe standard use i.e. when everything is happening normally. During times of war or other extraneous circumstances, many dispensations would be given anyway.
So the fact that the Novus Ordo prescribes minimalism or _ugliness_ in this regard is then a problem. You also have to realize that the beauty and tradition is not meant to take away the focus from the Eucharistic sacrifice. To the contrary, the beauty and tradition conveys the truths about the Eucharistic sacrifice even better. It is not a competition between tradition and beauty vs. Eucharistic sacrifice.
@tipofmytongue1024
I grew up with the Novus Ordo as well. In fact, I was one of the folks that thought the entire idea of using Latin and the priest facing the liturgical East instead of the faithful was moronic. I attended the TLM when I was older and honestly thought it was difficult for me to follow etc.
But, what I have come to realize is that the liturgy is not a matter of preference. It is more of a matter of correct form of worship vs. incorrect form of worship, or efficacious form of worship vs. not so efficacious forms of worship. From that perspective, it was pretty clear what to choose. I continued to struggle my way through attending the TLM and today, I have come to appreciate and love what it offers. I still attend the Novus Ordo on weekdays and I am also better able to appreciate the deficiencies in it as well. So what I am trying to say is that what you feel in a sense is nostalgia. But, if you were to choose objectively, you will not find yourself missing the Novus Ordo.
Eufrosnia D I agree on this statement "You also have to realize that the beauty and tradition is not meant to take away the focus from the Eucharistic sacrifice".... but on this statement "So the fact that the Novus Ordo prescribes minimalism or ugliness in this regard is then a problem." As much as I want to comprehend from what source do you get this...Personally, I view the development of the Novus Ordo in light of Satan conversation in 1884 overheard by Pope Leo XIII...Satan was about to give-up he cannot penetrate the Vatican inside to destroy it (Mt16:18)...so Satan ask God for more power...the Novus Ordo is a way of giving Satan a hold in the church by dividing it, God allows this to keep Satan pursuing to destroy the Church as prophesied in 2Thess 2:1-11 without this passages Satan would voluntary go to hell remember he produces a lot of saints & martyrs already and, he is already defeated...but God has to Redeemed the Church(The Mystical Body) it has to suffer the same persecution, passions, crucifixion & death as Jesus Christ freely offered for our redemption, the Church in a Mysterious God's design has to follow the same path for a Glorious Church to emerge.After this final tribulation the Marriage of the Glorious Head(Jesus) is now ready to take on the Glorious Body(RCC). and the reign of Christ will starts...but how about Satan in the Thessalonian prophesy?...As much as I want to believe Satan can takeover the Seat of Peter, my faith tells me otherwise Mama Mary would come just when Satan was about to Seat...and infront of all the demons & wicked persons Satans proudhead will be crushed...the living of all faith who witness this victory will proclaim the 5th Dogma...'In the end My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph"..we don't see the big pictures God only reveals His plan to the humble"Godbless! S&IHMMP4us.Amen
Eufrosnia D plus one more thing for you to appreciate the Vatican II in its fullness not only the Novus Ordo...Satan in 1884 trembles in fear after seeing millions of people wearing the symbol of his defeat "The Miraculous Medal"...he wanted to clarify to God if he was about to destroy his reign as prohesied in Genesis 3:15...the 19th century is the Age of Mary...Satan and his demons know who Mary is AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS?...the Woman...the Sovereign Queen of all angels...Satan is only a Cherub like Archangel Gabriel he must bow down to the Woman Crown with Twelve Stars w/ the moon under her feet...Queen of Heaven & Earth...but God said to Satan trembling in fear but still arrogant...calm down lonely creature your role is not yet complete you still have to destroy my Church remember 2Thess 2:1-11...Satan has to do God's bidding he is an ape of God remember CCC..but Satan said, ok give me more power and in 75 to 100 years I will destroy your Church...and so here we are 2017 is over but Satan has failed to destroy it...so were living now in the Time of Mercy...waiting for the Second Pentecost to equipped all the True Soldier of Christ for the Final Battle, as our beloved Pope Francis signal the start by praying the upgraded prayer "Our Father, DO NOT ALLOW US TO FALL UNDER A MILITARY ATTACK"..The RCC will be attack...but the Immaculate Heart will shines at it's brightest and blind Satan & all his cohorts.STAY IN THE ARK, you might be deceived to go to a counterfeit catholic church..S&IHMMP4us.Amen
The liturgy has been changing since they were conceived because life changes. In parts of the Middle Ages, only the Priests took in communion - the laity received "occular communion". In other times and places, the only permissible food during Lent was communion. I think you'd find that an honest history of the Tridentine Mass would be many cumulative changes that someone dared to make. I sometimes wonder if God allowed Vatican II to happen so us Catholics could remember that we're not the keepers of a museum, but a living faith.
I agree with most of what you said with the Tridentine Mass,...it is a sacred in it's forms and faithfuls can be easily guided how one should conduct themselves in the Holy Mass reverently in adoration, which we see in most NO Mass missing..we cannot blame the Traditionalists for observing the church goers in NO disposition in participating in the celebration. It's a good point you mentioned this "But I sincerely have no idea why Latin became so sacred of it's own right, more important than the people's direct involvement with the Mass"....for me the Tridentine form was like a Royal Robe of God...it's provide believers of what kind of God we adore, a Majestic and a Holy God...but personally we can also experience deep reverence in the Novos Ordo Mass particularly if the Priests prepares well prior to celebrating the Holy Mass and the participants attending was in the state of grace. the homilies of a pious & obedient Priests radiates Christ presence more clearly...Godbless!
To be clear, I would never deny anyone a Latin Mass if that's how they felt they wanted to worship. How the NO was introduced by American Bishops was deplorable.
but in the life of King Saul there mention an offering that is not pleasing to God...that cause him the lost of Authority & God's anointing for a simple disobedience....As I said the Latin Mass is like a Royal Robe for God...in order to redeemed mankind, God willingly remove all His power and majesty as King of Kings in the form of a slave, a helpless child..in our times particularly in year 1959(75th year) were the public announcement of Vatican II was made coinciding with Pope Leo XIII vision of 1884...God once again in order to redeemed His Church (The Mystical Body) is willing and allows to remove His Royal Robe in Tridentine Mass in the form of Novus Ordo to stoop down again to the level of man's understanding to show forth His Loving Kindness & Mercies for the salvation of all the redeemed. Latin Mass can only be offered pleasing to God in the form of unity in full communion with Pope's intention and in harmony with Church Authority.If not in Full Communion with the Church the offering will be likened to King Saul human intention that falls into disobedience...Godbless!
The heresy of vatican II and modernism is a test
Jarl Kilduff what heresy? I never seen any specific and definite arguments that would convince me that the Vatican Ii commited any heresy.. So far all accusations that ive read fall flat particularly if the criticism was made by the known church enemies, critics & groups who had a history of disobedience, opposition & resistance. St. Athanasius said "when there is slander, there is Satan"..all ive seen is persecution, calumny and all sorts irreverent words directed to our beloved Pope Francis. Godbless
I disagree here 26:05 : the Magisterium first protects the faith and not material things. Material expressions of the faith deserve reverence but the order is not first material and then faith. At what point does protecting physical expressions of faith become worshiping them as magical? If every Catholic building and piece of art were leveled tomorrow, I'd still have faith and I'm thinking that's how it should be.
you are protestant , we worship the act of our salvation, in a sacred place in a sacred way remember what happened to core and faily
Correct! Aesthetic/external beauty is only peripheral to the faith..what matters to God? Book of Samuel says "man look at the appearance but God looks into the heart" Jesus calling for every believers is to be perfect just like the heavenly farher is perfect...Obedience is better than sacrifice.. Samuel added. .Godbless
I'm a Protestant for having questions. Fabulous. Very Catholic of you.
@@AM-os4tyYes, yet people receive the faith in part via osmosis and how they see the faith practiced and sacred art and beautiful Churches are an excellent vehicle to pass on the faith and teach the faith.
What about the Catholic who finds all the sculptures and paintings distracting? To be clear, I would never desecrate a church and find most of these pictures rich and beautiful. But I also know when I pray, I'm much more comfortable with less decoration. Am I less Catholic because I have no wish to be overwhelmed by hundreds of years of other people's church donations?
A M - you would like our church... it’s plain. Just bricks and painted walls.
"Over time I found it very helpful for my mental prayer development by having holy images to look at." That's very good for you, I'm glad. I don't think it will be mine, because I'm a different person.
cistercian architecture is very simple and unadorned
Yes. Join the Lutherans.
The Tridentine Mass was written for a particular culture: the ancient Roman one. It's not timeless and we may have lost many Protestants who asked themselves the reasonable question: "Why can't I understand this without a missal or a Priest?" Yes, the average of Latin Mass is much younger than NO, but it's still a fraction of that generation, and it's not busting them out the doors in most places. Plus, if the Eastern Rite folks can have a liturgy in the vernacular, why can't the Western Rite? Why not translate the old Mass into the vernacular, as it was in the original development time?
Regarding having to use a missal - I just read this quote attributed to (abbot ?) Bacquez that "by this means the words striking the eye and ear at the same time, are less exposed to pass unperceived and the care taken to discover the word we pronounce is one more safeguard against the tendency to routine." I agree with Fr. R, and I think people of today are whiners who don't want to put any effort into prayer. The Byzantine rite I attend is in English, but the prayers are much more glorious and sacred sounding.
sue200012 - That's wonderful on the your parish and it's litgury and that's my point. Somehow "only minor changes" became no changes and enforced prayer in a foreign language, that's easy to disconnect from. I have been told of people showing up for their beautiful mandatory Latin Masses...and praying the Rosary. I understand the objections to the NO. But I sincerely have no idea why Latin became so sacred of it's own right, more important than the people's direct involvement with the Mass
Nothing at all wrong with saying a rosary during Mass ( I can't remember where I read that). People are involved in the Latin Mass if they choose to be. Don't jews still use Hebrew(?)? Why? It's sacred. It's a sacred language for a sacred rite.
"Nothing at all wrong with saying a rosary during Mass " Um...doesn't that defeat the point of being there at all? That's really what God wants - for people show up and not pay attention to what's going on - in this case, the sacrifice that saved the whole world? In any other context, that's extremely rude. I don't get it.
" People are involved in the Latin Mass if they choose to be. " If people want the Latin Mass, they should absolutely have it and it should be available. I absolutely would never deny anyone that. My questions are along the lines of why did the Western Catholic church refuse to _also_ offer a Mass in vernacular as the Eastern Rite has done easily and you actually attend? Why even now is there pining over a language out of temporal use for thousand years, like it's going to solve problems of reaching the modern mind?
"It's sacred. It's a sacred language for a sacred rite." Languages aren't sacred. People and prayers are sacred, but not the particular language in use. Pentecost makes it very clear that we are to reach out to people in their language, not ask them to learn a new one for us.
No one is asked to learn a new language!! just look at a book. The priest offers the sacrifice. You can say the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary and be on Calvary just like those who are saying the Mass prayers, and you never know what's going on with worshippers anyway. Latin was kept because the Church is universal - same language wherever in the world the Mass was said. It is a sacred language to me; it was used by many great saints of the RC Church who attended the Latin Mass that came down to us from the earliest times.