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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- beno.org.uk
Please note: Please don't attempt to copy what you see in this video without understanding of how to do it safely. I don't mean to sound bossy or tell people what to do. I just don't want people to get hurt. Just from watching my videos will not give you all the knowledge required to safely enter lift shafts.
Elevator Controller.exe has stopped working
:O
This is the type of video I like to see you do. It's a really interesting setup
It really is brilliant. I love how you can see the laser scanning the bar code.
If I owned a nice tall building of about 20 floors I'd have these twin lifts in one bank and some 4m/s EcoDiscs in another bank. :)
The hardware based safety system is still there. It just locks out one door if the lift is in de door zone for that floor. The door contact is bridged by a combination of the DZ contact and a proximity switch for the current floor.
Do you have a link to this infomation
Of course. It's patented so it's publicly available. www.google.com/patents/US7178635
Oh, by the way: the original concept drawing i've seen many years ago did include a safety between the cars that does detect that the cars are about to touch. As you mentioned in the video it is not there. Possible it has moved to the counter weights or it has become software only. You will probably be reading the full description of the twin patents by now. Can you inform us what has happened to this safety system?
It finds its position because if the motor de-syncs with the lift if like the cable slipped or something went wrong it can re sync where it is so it doesn't drive off the tracks or run into the pit.
Nice
Bet these lifts would confuse the hell out of firefighters in an emergency rescue situation
I was asking a ThyseenKrupp engineer about this and he said that buildings with Twin lifts need a trained rescue person on site 24 hours as the fire brigade can not be trusted to brake release these lifts.
Wow, that's interesting. And probably expensive.
Watching the other lift car coming down on top would freak me out, so awesomely cool!
It doesn't really get that close. It observes the minimum shaft pit/roof overrun distances as the minimum distances between cars. So that would be about 2 meters for a lift of this speed.
For me, the pucker factor was off the scale!
"Do not lean" He leans, counterweight rushes by seconds later.
Really nice & advanced system! Did you or 1 of your friends put that label on (2:59)?
No, they put the labels on, and then removed them again. I am not sure why.
Real time OS? It must be... the kind of "fail safe" system that they put in medical systems and missle guidance systems. Maybe it's QNX or Vx Works... it surely can't be windows or linux... too unreliable and too unresponsive. They better get it right and not use any multitasking. With such a safety critical application like this you want a system that responds instantly on input or prioritizes safety critical events. The car industry is increasingly using automated driving systems but I've seen demonstrations of Chrysler cars where someone could operate the brakes via a flaw in the entertainment system.
I would not trust a system that depends entirely on software for it's safety concept. No matter how well tested it is, even militairy grade systems can have flaws. There is no backup in case the computer crashes due to a memory leak or even worse a system that decides to perform an over the air software update whist it's running. I wonder how Thyssen Krupp have designed this and if they have thought of that. A lot of software is written with rather poor quality with no focus on security or reliability. Not just software for consumer devices but also government software systems are often cobbled together.
It would need to be an ultra simple system that just does its job and does nothing else. There is no way of knowing how well things are programmed like this. It says on ThyssenKrupp's website that their software conforms to some reliability failsafe standard.
What annoys me is how a lot of companies talk about how advanced their safety systems are, but just want to sound impressive rather than explains exactly how they work. A good safety system needs to be very simple and very reliable and also needs to be open about how it works.
For me a proper safety system should have two separate systems that work independently of each other and never rely on each other on any safety aspect. And one of the two systems should be a physical relay that cuts the power.
I have noticed several things on some modern lifts that have made me a bit concerned. Gen2s and Ecodiscs will ignore limit switches when on cabinet inspect, while this is useful, I wonder if they have relay protected this or if it is just software. Gen2s have a card that can be put in to bypass safety, which seems very easy to forget about and very dangerous if a lift entered service with safety bypass, but the software does some test that proves that it is bypassed and won't allow it to enter service with the card in. But with all these work arounds, it makes it less absolute that the lift can not move with the doors open.
Also on pre-doors, often it is just a shaft bar that bypasses safety when it blocks a beam sensor. What if the sensor got block for some other reason, then would the lift move with the doors open. From the experiments I have done it does seem that modern lifts know when a piece of safety hardware is not working properly and shuts the lift down.
For safety, Mitsubishi (1990s-2000s) is the best. There is a massive inspection switch on top the lift that powers off the main logic and switches on the inspection logic. This is such a nice well designed feature.
I could compare this with an real world example of the train safety system in Sweden. It is computerised and protects trains both from overspeeding and doing SPADs as long as ATC balises are placed along the line. The on board system have 2 independly running computers that receives information, process it and then checks the results with each other. If they agrees they presents the info to the driver and/or takes action. If they disagrees it is an instant emergency brake and the related error code being shown that the ATC on the train is failing.
Very ahead of its time when it was developed in the 70s and 80s.
there is one in pilgrim hospital boston
Did you try inspection ?
If this is the case then does it put out of service both lifts ?
And where does the lower lift stop in inspection if the upper one is "in the way" while going up ?
No fear of getting crushed between both cars ?
I didn't try inspection. I do really understand how some of this system works. I got on and off with just a safety break.
the safety chain on each lift is in series
It's a TWIN Lift!!!!!
We will surf them BENO!!!!!!
Hooray!!
So how do you get to bottom floor from the top floor? Does the lower car have an area to go below the bottom floor before reaching the pit?
What an awesome video! Thanks for the upload :)
I’m guessing the controller knows both lifts’ positions exactly and calculates the distance between them? If that is the case, then the controller must be quite complex. And this could be the answer to why it loses Its position very easily, because it (the position) needs to be as precise as possible because if the position was imprecise, then the cars could crash into eachother, so if this is the case, the easy position losing is just a safety feature to keep the position as exact as possible.
I wouldn't say it quite like that. The safety circuit is very complex. It has to bypass the correct parts of safety for the other lift. Each twin lift has an extra cabinet in the motor room to manage the safety circuit bypassing. I personally do not like this and would prefer shaft roller switches that the lift car could press when opening a door to bypass it on the other car.
To stop the lifts crashing into each other is done by software. The destination dispatch wouldn't allow this in the first place. And software is used as a backup. I don't like this over dependence on software.
Also, the logic does not know the exact position of the lifts. It uses reference point and tacho. There is no absolute position system on these lifts. The logic counts its travel distance between reference points. After an emergency stop the logic refinds the nearest floor. This is semi position lost (called JU in German). This is better behavior than something like Thamesvalley which attempts to continue after an emergency stop and sometimes the taco has gone out of sync and the lift approaches a floor too fast.
The other major part of this system is the destination dispatch, which is just a case of programming an algorithm to make the best use of the twin system.
Ultimately a twin lift is not much different to a normal lift. All it needs is an appropriate safety circuit and a destination dispatch system. It is a shame that other companies are not making them. Kone would do a far better job than ThyssenKrupp.
What speed do these lifts go? 2.5m/s at least?
They go 2.5 m/s
So this lift have 2 motors? And how the cables and counterweight are designed in a twin lift?
The twin lift has 2 motors. The lifts have standard 2:1 cabling.
Beno Lifts both motors are on top?
true
What would happen if they fell up (if the safety brake didn't catch them and if they would do it) ..... Would they crash into each other or would the lower lift stop before hitting the upper one...
1:19 76kg per person
How do you get so many lift keys!! All I could find on eBay was drop keys and triangular keys
With years of research and knowledge. They can not be brought from ebay, or you have to know what you are looking for.
Interesting! Is that a PIR above the yellow box on the green whatever it is ?
Looks like that annoying beep has gone - YES!
I want to ride a twin elevator beno
5:36-5:43 0_0
You seem to know alot abouts lift. What company did you train at Beno ?
I have not trained at a company. Everything I know is self taught.
Did your dad work at a company or any other relatives?
No
Why do you do it ?
For fun
Imagine Hitachi making a lift
i had ur shoes
0:30: Why is your cursor there
ccityplanner12 : He’s showing a clip from years ago that he uploaded to yt
Surfing a funicular, no idea how it's done.
schindlerteejay94 I think the side of the lift? ;P
Maybe it would be like the video game Subway Surfer?
how does the lift system see you when you on top of the lower lift?
How do you mean?
Think he meant how does the upper elevator car know you are on top of the lower elevator.
yoshi like elevators ♥♥♥
Slazo sent me here
How? Also, I recognise your username. Has it got anything to do with GradeAUnderA's school video?
WoW!
Ok
Any system can get hacked and infected thru it's maintenance systems
0:49 such as Otis gen 2 belt cables what a f#@ki£g load of shit Lol