Thanks Russ, I love what you do on this channel. I imagine you’d hate the term ‘influencer’ but you’ve had a huge effect on how I approach cycling and my enjoyment of bikes, experimentation and appreciation of the supple life. Keep doing what you’re a true force for good in the world.
Happy to see you take on a sponsor! You have huge impact on my riding and im sure many others, you deserve all the monies necessary for you to keep on, keepin on! Your cave has certainly more good ideas than bad ones!
Thanks! For a long time I've wanted to modify bicycles with different components but always struggled with compatibility issues and didn't have the time to "go deep" to figure it out. Your videos are a huge help!!
“Peak mechanical” is a great idea for a series of vids. I’ve commented several times that a component brand would sell a lot of a groupset that takes the best of the best of mech systems, including rim brakes, and makes a “boutique” but not over priced groupset, in silver of course. Maybe a Chinese brand might attempt this. The market is people who enjoy this channel and people who have outstanding older steel frame bikes that need upgraded components. There does seem to be a market for high quality vintage components.
A call-out for Old Man Mountain racks... We have used one on our tandem for multiweek tours all over Europe and North America. The rack is superbly designed... light and strong, easily adaptable to different frame sizes and configurations. As far as I am concerned, they make the best racks available.
Microshift is my cycling hero company. They're not rushing to empty our wallets like $himano and $RAM. I think electronic groupsets are cool, but they're super expensive. I like Microshift's approach better. It's just happy coincidence where the Cues derailleurs happen to work with Microshift shifters, but I'll take that!
Been using 46-30 with 11-40 with a GRX RD. It has been going flawlessly for me. Raced the TransPyrenees on this setup. More than enough range. I feel below 46-11 I am missing on the top end. Might try a 11-42 in the future but for now I’m good. Thanks for the content!
I used to be a go fast rider, racer, Strava COM rider. I finally found where I fit in thanks to your TH-cam channel. I watch most of your vids. Please forgive me, I'm terrible at remembering names. If you could simply give me your opinion as a reply to this comment or show everyone the yays and nays of one of my favorite brands. That brand is Sensah. It's a drop bar road bike specific groupset that also dabbles in grav grav. After Sh$tman0 went Cues, I went full 1x8 Sensah using a classic Altus 9 sp rear mech and a home brewed 11-36 8sp cassette. I'm confident the Sensah 9 sp through 11 sp is not Cues compatible but there is plenty of room for hacking together a wide range 2x set-up on a budget. My favorite features of the Sensah brand is price and the there are no shift paddles. The brake lever also handles the shifting. I too share your disappointment with Shimano for dragging their feet with Cues compatible brifters. Shimano invented index shifting for Pete's sake. They could at least take the ball and keep running with it. Ok enough of my rant.
On our Tandem we are running Cues 8020 RD with 11-48 cassette. 42/30 chainrings and Sword brifters. Pushing the quoted capacity and max chain ring size, but so far has worked great! Thanks Russ for doing the groundwork to make these hacks possible!
Love these hack videos! I'm still rocking an 11-51 Rival hoods + Apex Eagle derailleur with a cable fin swap from one of your older videos. Initially was a little sloppy but a new derailleur hanger fixed that right up. Basically flawless now.
The XT M8000 SGD RD with a jagwire Mickey barrel adjuster will get you to the same place with a 45t capacity. It is a higher quality RD with an adjustable clutch. I’ve seen them for around $65. I have the M8000 paired with Sword 2x and it’s perfect. 44x28 front, 11-39 rear. You also throw on that 11-42 10s deore cassette. I also had it setup 11s for a while running a 10-42 rear with a 620% range. Also great. The Sword RD is pretty good but I found the clutch to be useless and got a ton of chain slap on rough roads and dirt. As you’ve mentioned too, the feel of the down shift paddle was always soft on the Sword brifter. Since swapping to the XT with a solid clutch the down shifts are snappy and secure.
I'd like to know more about your setup if possible . Am I correct that you're using an 11 speed mtb derailleur, shifting with a 10 speed mtb (equivalent) shifter? I've got a spare M8000 derailleur and cassette and was just gifted 10 speed dura ace brifters. I wanted to use a tanpan 10/ shiftmate 6 but was told it wouldn't work. I'm ok only having access to 10/11 gears.
Glad to hear a better derailleur improved the shift paddle feel. I just installed Sword 1x on my gravel rig and was disappointed by the RD, especially after being really happy with the Advent clutch on another bike. I can live with mushy levers, but now I know it could all be better...
I have used the tanpan on the XT 11s RD with Shimano105 brifters and it works well but I haven’t messed with 10s Shimano road stuff. The Sword brifters work perfectly with the M8000 RD without any tricks since the pull ratio is same same.
I have put a ton of miles and configurations on the M8000 and it’s been the most versatile. It was lying around already so it was of little consequence to try. The other improvement with a better clutch was down shifting under load while climbing. Not heavy torque but I’m not waiting for the system to catch up while shifting.
I am going CUES 2 by on my Surly Karate Monkey because of your videos. I also have the Old Man Mountain rack on the rear and agree it's awesome. I transferred it of my Merida, I had to put the true axle kit on it because the lack of mounts. OMM rocks.
I have microshift R7 3x7 brifters on my road bike which has the RSX groupset when the rsx brifters completely jammed the shifter cable past the pawl and the grease gunked it up. The R7 brifters were a direct drop-in, and the front derailleur brifter even has trim ability. They're GREAT and way better with than even the RSX/Tiagra brifters (of course ultegra and dura ace mechanical brifters way better)
As a friction guy this is not huge news for me, but for the masses I think this is great. Maybe shimano might have to make a drop bar cues setup then...
Nice to know! I'm really looking forward for an official shifter from Shimano (maybe in first months of 2025) in order to have an 11 speed, as I'm willing to build a bikepacking bike. If they will not doing it I'll go for a 10 speed and microShift levers
@@PathLessPedaledTV Sweet. its been radio silent since they announced them, only content i have have found on them recently is some random person running a derailleur through the gears on a bed... 🤦♂
Nice! Good to have more options for wide range. I discovered the perfect setup for me via modding the GRX RD-RX812 with a RD-M8000 SGS cage. This allows me to run 46-30 chainrings with 11-42 cassette (585%), no goat link needed, and works with all 11 speed Shimano road shifters. Larger range is likely possible but this setup shifts perfect and runs quiet with good enough low end for me even when loaded so I'm satisfied :) Sadly for the future I don't think this is possible with 12 speed GRX as the RD capacity looks to be too low to run 2X with cassettes larger than 11-40 and the RD-M8120 cage doesn't look to be compatible. Maybe it would work by using RD-M8120 with some kind of tan-pan/jtek adaptor.
This is interesting - so you're using the 812 1x derailleur in a 2x setup with that XT cage? I just built up my bike with the same RD + XT cage mod as a 1x 11-51T setup, but bought the 2x shifter in case I wanted to go that route in the future. Does this mean I could do that without switching out my RD?
@@lastfm4477 Before this I was running a 105 RD-R7000 (GS) with Roadlink DM which worked for up to 11-40 but was a bit noisy and I didn't feel it shifted as well as without the Roadlink. Stated capacity is not the only thing to look at. In theory the RD-RX812 is better suited for use with larger cassettes like 11-42 as it doesn't require extending the B screw too much and there is no need for a hanger extension. This is due to 1x RDs moving at a slightly steeper angle as the cassettes intended for 1x (40+) have larger jumps between cogs. It's still a complete mystery to me why Shimano has never released an official RD-RX812 SGS for use with 11-46 cassettes. With the cage mod the capacity is at least 47T when used with 2x, same as the RD-M8000. Good to know about the compatibility between 11 and 12 speed.
2x12 mechanical GRX RD capacity seems to be substantially larger than specced (maybe in case someone used it with rear suspension lol). I got fed up with long, steep and loose ascents with 31:36, first took my MTB 10-51 cassette and FH body, added some links and tried how capacity looks like on 45T, then ordered 10-45, FH body and Roadlink DM. With that setup capacity is right on the edge - it won't break if accidentally crosschain big - big and still some tension left when small small. It doesn't want to index well, however - it will either work perfectly with 11 smaller cogs and won't want to stay on the biggest, or will be a bit noisy on cogs ~3-6 (guide pulley pulling a little too inwards and chain sliding on the edge of bigger cog). Straightened first hanger then installed Roadlink DM and used hanger alignment tool with it (should have tried how it works just after adjusting hanger itself... but I guess actually adapters' plane should be perpendicular to axle), but didn't help much. Needed to pull guide pulley a bit farther from the cassette than optimal to reduce the issue, but it is very much ridable, and range is spectacular for un/lightly laden mountain gravel riding. But surprised that there is an issue; need to measure, maybe on "MTB" Shimano 12spd cassettes distance between smallest and largest cog is slightly larger than on road cassettes and 1x-specific GRX RD has slightly different pull ratio? But I doubt it. Might start working better once cassette and chain get a bit worn in, they need to on Shimano 12spd... Need to check how it works with Roadlink DM and 11-36 and 11-34 that I use for road riding, cause I went straight to 10-45 when installing.
I've commented at Booth's channel I was glad he had taken on this project. Just so I could shut up in the comments here. And it's happened - you've taken on the reasoned approach. THANK YOU. Commenting from a long time spent in this industry. Specs off or cut-and-pasted wrong? It gets worse. In working on receiving big orders of complete bikes I've called a major top 4 brand in the US and found they had less info than me (bike in hand). Feels like the tail is wagging the dog. Makes sense a Euro brand has their act together on gear range and practicality - there's the treking catagory there and Americans are largely ignorant of it.
Love this channel and those experiments, but Microshift already have Dynasys 10 and 11 compatibly brifters on their production line, the SB-M100 and M110, meaning you can mount any 10/11 HG cassette you want just choosing the correct Dynays derailleur. A nice improvement would be to find a compatibility hack to use LG cassetes cause they are better to shift under load. I think the LG cog pitch is close to HG 11s, but not the same.
I love this compatibility stuff :) Another ultra wide range setup offers the deore xt 2x12 MTB group. I think it should be possible to run it with a 2x12 grx system :)
Wow, I believe Sword and Advent are 1.1 pull ratio! Not 1.2 as you state. It works great with Shimano 11 speed MTB derraileurs, which are also 1.1 pull ratio. 1.2 is for Shimano 10 speed MTB and Microshift does not work with those! Not talking about Deore 5120, which is a Frankenstein of 10/11 speed with a 1.15 pull ratio
Just a heads up, if you're looking for an even cheaper option. Sensa. Gra-10 which is about $60 cheaper for the shifters has the same pull ratio as micro shift. I'm using it for my 1x setup right now for my gravel bike and it's working well so far
Good stuff as always Russ. I’m running the same cassette with an RD-M5120 and a 36/26 double up front. It’s pretty easy to spin out so I’ve been eyeing a 40t chainring to get a little more top end. Do you find the 40t to be enough for you?
I mean the difference doesnt seem so large, but it still crosses the magical 5% so I'd expect it to be rather rough Glad to See it worked Out for you in the end though!
This looks perfect. It would be nice to see a test with the 11-45t 11spd please. How much does the Sklar weigh again with your regular daily ride stuff?
You should get an honorary PhD in bicycle drive train comparability. I feel so far behind in the current drive train parts and really welcome your knowledge. I really love your gear range.
Theoretically, there should be a dropbar cues shifters from shimano, because derailleur has cable tension adjustment. I think it will be, but cues was announced in 2022, so it is only one and half year on market, actually. And shimano is really slow in releasing new products.
0:18 now that we are talking about gear range has anyone yet tried to fit 11-52t casette on to something like sturmey archer CS-RF3 hub? i think that would be pretty crazy.
I'm still using my SRAM DualDrive 2 with 8 speed 11-34 and 38T front (upgraded to Rotor VEGAST 24 and Magene powermeter) on my steel hybrid bike. I like the original shifter but you probably could mount any RD and shifter for the RD-part. As Frostbiker mentions, there is a limit and I don't know where it is. I'm super heavy and already way over all limits. I wont ruin my hub by trying a larger cassette and RD, sorry. ;-). There is an awesome website to calculate ranges including internal hubs. Sadly, it's German language only. google "franz schneck Entfaltungsrechner"
Also remember that CS-RF3 and SRAM DualDrive have a fixed axle, no QR, no through-axles. The SA CS-RF3 hub may work with brifters ("FD"), Bike Friday sold a brifter based setup for the SRAM DualDrive but it is noth smooth sailing. Pull ration is somewhat identical but inverted to the Torpedo 3-speed. You can dig deepter into both internal/external hybrids on forums about recumbent bikes where such things are still used albeit many switch to pedelecs and hence won't need another part that can break.
Im wondering does the shimano cues 2x crankset 40-26 work with other shimano shifters like Shimano Altus? I have a hybrid bike that uses kmc 9 speed chain and 2x9 shimano altus shifters, so will there be compatability issues when you use the cues crankset?
@@johnmills837 if it has a high offset rear pulley like other 1x derailleurs when you shift to the lower ring it will be incapable of taking up chain slack and run into the cassette. Thats what makes 1x derailleurs 1x specific.
Very little. I went from years of triples to a 42-26 double recommended by Russ. Nearly the same range, tad over 600% with a lil ol 11-34 on the back. A bigger range with a triple would be 24-34-44 but i believe most people dont need it bar heavily laden asphalt touring rigs.
When you're comparing the two different CUES derailers, it wasn't clear which capacity dimension you were referring to. Chain wrap is a function of cage length, but max cog is mainly a function of paralellogram angle. It's possible for two rear derailers to have the same max cog capacity, but one with a longer cage to have more chain wrap capacity. For example, 9- and 10-speed-era Shimano "road triple" rear derailers had longer cage (and more chain wrap capacity) than regular road-double rear derailers, but the exact same max cog capacity. Can you clarify this in future videos?
Can't quite catch the channel name of the person who is methodically measuring cable pull ratios? Would like to take a look.. has anyone found the channel? Thanks
I'm always wondering if the advent X can do a 2x set up I do intent to use down tube shifter and a 46/36 and the current 11-48 The 36 had been sufficient for me so far and could mash trails with it how ever in flats it kind of lacks
But doesn't Microshift claim to have 1,1 ratio, not 1,2? That would make it much closer to CUES than to Dyna-sys (CUES and DS being the most far apart of three)
I’ve been trying to find the pull ratio of the Shimano 10 speed Zee rear derailleur but have confusing results. Does anyone know the Zee RD ratio? I want to know if it would also work with the Sword brifters, or what other brifters it’s compatible with. The Zee is a solid product IMO.
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Thanks Russ, I love what you do on this channel. I imagine you’d hate the term ‘influencer’ but you’ve had a huge effect on how I approach cycling and my enjoyment of bikes, experimentation and appreciation of the supple life. Keep doing what you’re a true force for good in the world.
For me personally, influencer does not carry particularly positive connotations. But you are right, Russ is an influencer and in a very positive way.
Happy to see you take on a sponsor! You have huge impact on my riding and im sure many others, you deserve all the monies necessary for you to keep on, keepin on! Your cave has certainly more good ideas than bad ones!
Thanks! For a long time I've wanted to modify bicycles with different components but always struggled with compatibility issues and didn't have the time to "go deep" to figure it out. Your videos are a huge help!!
Great video and thank you old man mountain for sponsoring!
“Peak mechanical” is a great idea for a series of vids. I’ve commented several times that a component brand would sell a lot of a groupset that takes the best of the best of mech systems, including rim brakes, and makes a “boutique” but not over priced groupset, in silver of course. Maybe a Chinese brand might attempt this. The market is people who enjoy this channel and people who have outstanding older steel frame bikes that need upgraded components. There does seem to be a market for high quality vintage components.
A call-out for Old Man Mountain racks... We have used one on our tandem for multiweek tours all over Europe and North America. The rack is superbly designed... light and strong, easily adaptable to different frame sizes and configurations. As far as I am concerned, they make the best racks available.
Appreciate you Stephen! Sounds like an amazing trip, thanks for taking us along!
@@rachaelOMM links in your website are not working
I have a OMM rear rack that's from 2011 that's still bomber. They really are great racks.
I did a Sora brifter, long-cage Altus and a microshift advent 9 speed cassette on my cruiser to allroad conversion and it is a beautiful setup.
Sweet!
I even went the cheaper way and got a pair of chinese LTWOO brifters, other than that same as yours and I'm fairly happy as well :)
@@Jan-bf2ht tbf the sora brifter came from my local bike coop so it was like 10 bucks.
Old or new Sora?
@@Jan-bf2ht What's the pull ratio on the LTWOO and which version did you get?
Old Man Mountain is as good a brand as one could ever hope for as a sponsor -- glad to see them helping out!
Microshift is my cycling hero company. They're not rushing to empty our wallets like $himano and $RAM. I think electronic groupsets are cool, but they're super expensive. I like Microshift's approach better. It's just happy coincidence where the Cues derailleurs happen to work with Microshift shifters, but I'll take that!
I feel while electronic groupsets do work well it is all overblown technology for most of us. This mechanical approach seems sane
I keep coming back to this video, considering it for my new bike. (Bought myself a Wilde Earthship!)
Thanks for teasing out the Cues RD mystery Russ! Didn't know about Old Man Mountain - looks like a great range. Props and thaks for sponsoring!
Very cool! Personally super excited about what everyone can do with all the CUES stuff. Super underrated line-up from Shimano imho.
Peak mechanical! A new T shirt idea and an amazing series full of value! I’ll echo the 2x11.
Been using 46-30 with 11-40 with a GRX RD. It has been going flawlessly for me. Raced the TransPyrenees on this setup. More than enough range. I feel below 46-11 I am missing on the top end. Might try a 11-42 in the future but for now I’m good. Thanks for the content!
I used to be a go fast rider, racer, Strava COM rider. I finally found where I fit in thanks to your TH-cam channel. I watch most of your vids. Please forgive me, I'm terrible at remembering names. If you could simply give me your opinion as a reply to this comment or show everyone the yays and nays of one of my favorite brands. That brand is Sensah. It's a drop bar road bike specific groupset that also dabbles in grav grav. After Sh$tman0 went Cues, I went full 1x8 Sensah using a classic Altus 9 sp rear mech and a home brewed 11-36 8sp cassette. I'm confident the Sensah 9 sp through 11 sp is not Cues compatible but there is plenty of room for hacking together a wide range 2x set-up on a budget. My favorite features of the Sensah brand is price and the there are no shift paddles. The brake lever also handles the shifting. I too share your disappointment with Shimano for dragging their feet with Cues compatible brifters. Shimano invented index shifting for Pete's sake. They could at least take the ball and keep running with it. Ok enough of my rant.
This is why I subscribe, thanks Russ! It's really great to know there are ways to combine components into a workable whole. Thanks!
This is exactly what I needed ... Grab a used MTB, put on Cues and now finally I have a dropbar option!
On our Tandem we are running Cues 8020 RD with 11-48 cassette. 42/30 chainrings and Sword brifters. Pushing the quoted capacity and max chain ring size, but so far has worked great! Thanks Russ for doing the groundwork to make these hacks possible!
🙌🏼
Great stuff, Old Man Mtn racks have been my go to rack for several years--thank you
Thanks for the continued support over the years and taking us along!
Love these hack videos! I'm still rocking an 11-51 Rival hoods + Apex Eagle derailleur with a cable fin swap from one of your older videos. Initially was a little sloppy but a new derailleur hanger fixed that right up. Basically flawless now.
Russ, this is the secret I was looking for. Thank you kindly! Looks like youve got more space with your b screw too from the clips.
Awesome Russ! Just the video I needed to see. I think I’m going to keep my Jamis and just put on this drivetrain. Loving the ‘all mechanical’ too.
Thank you for this channel please keep producing quality content
The XT M8000 SGD RD with a jagwire Mickey barrel adjuster will get you to the same place with a 45t capacity. It is a higher quality RD with an adjustable clutch. I’ve seen them for around $65.
I have the M8000 paired with Sword 2x and it’s perfect. 44x28 front, 11-39 rear. You also throw on that 11-42 10s deore cassette. I also had it setup 11s for a while running a 10-42 rear with a 620% range. Also great.
The Sword RD is pretty good but I found the clutch to be useless and got a ton of chain slap on rough roads and dirt. As you’ve mentioned too, the feel of the down shift paddle was always soft on the Sword brifter. Since swapping to the XT with a solid clutch the down shifts are snappy and secure.
*SGS not SGD
I'd like to know more about your setup if possible . Am I correct that you're using an 11 speed mtb derailleur, shifting with a 10 speed mtb (equivalent) shifter? I've got a spare M8000 derailleur and cassette and was just gifted 10 speed dura ace brifters. I wanted to use a tanpan 10/ shiftmate 6 but was told it wouldn't work. I'm ok only having access to 10/11 gears.
Glad to hear a better derailleur improved the shift paddle feel. I just installed Sword 1x on my gravel rig and was disappointed by the RD, especially after being really happy with the Advent clutch on another bike. I can live with mushy levers, but now I know it could all be better...
I have used the tanpan on the XT 11s RD with Shimano105 brifters and it works well but I haven’t messed with 10s Shimano road stuff. The Sword brifters work perfectly with the M8000 RD without any tricks since the pull ratio is same same.
I have put a ton of miles and configurations on the M8000 and it’s been the most versatile. It was lying around already so it was of little consequence to try. The other improvement with a better clutch was down shifting under load while climbing. Not heavy torque but I’m not waiting for the system to catch up while shifting.
I am going CUES 2 by on my Surly Karate Monkey because of your videos. I also have the Old Man Mountain rack on the rear and agree it's awesome. I transferred it of my Merida, I had to put the true axle kit on it because the lack of mounts. OMM rocks.
I have microshift R7 3x7 brifters on my road bike which has the RSX groupset when the rsx brifters completely jammed the shifter cable past the pawl and the grease gunked it up. The R7 brifters were a direct drop-in, and the front derailleur brifter even has trim ability. They're GREAT and way better with than even the RSX/Tiagra brifters (of course ultegra and dura ace mechanical brifters way better)
Thank you for the shout-out! I'm glad that my channel has been helpful for #peakmechanical
As a friction guy this is not huge news for me, but for the masses I think this is great. Maybe shimano might have to make a drop bar cues setup then...
Great video. And many thanks. Cues just might be my next drivetrain
Liking the series already! Great stuff as usual.
I just swapped out my drop bar gravel bike rear cassette and derailleur to a mountain bike set up. I didn't realize that it was such a science.
First episode and it is such a trove of info!
Thank you!
Nice to know! I'm really looking forward for an official shifter from Shimano (maybe in first months of 2025) in order to have an 11 speed, as I'm willing to build a bikepacking bike. If they will not doing it I'll go for a 10 speed and microShift levers
LOVE YOU RUSS!!! For promoting the sanity of friction shifting. Friction liberates us!!! Long Live Friction Shifting! Friction: The Sensible Choice!
Any chance you could pull some strings and get ahold of the Growtac "friction" brifters for review? They are supposedly out in japan as of april/may.
Trying.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Sweet. its been radio silent since they announced them, only content i have have found on them recently is some random person running a derailleur through the gears on a bed... 🤦♂
Praying for a Triple crank renaissance when it releases.
Nice! Good to have more options for wide range.
I discovered the perfect setup for me via modding the GRX RD-RX812 with a RD-M8000 SGS cage.
This allows me to run 46-30 chainrings with 11-42 cassette (585%), no goat link needed, and works with all 11 speed Shimano road shifters.
Larger range is likely possible but this setup shifts perfect and runs quiet with good enough low end for me even when loaded so I'm satisfied :)
Sadly for the future I don't think this is possible with 12 speed GRX as the RD capacity looks to be too low to run 2X with cassettes larger than 11-40 and the RD-M8120 cage doesn't look to be compatible.
Maybe it would work by using RD-M8120 with some kind of tan-pan/jtek adaptor.
This is interesting - so you're using the 812 1x derailleur in a 2x setup with that XT cage? I just built up my bike with the same RD + XT cage mod as a 1x 11-51T setup, but bought the 2x shifter in case I wanted to go that route in the future. Does this mean I could do that without switching out my RD?
@@lastfm4477 only tiagra 4700 has compatible pull with GRX in 10spd. All the other 10spd shifters use the older 1.7 cable pull ratio.
@@ChilkoNZ yes, works perfectly for me, but as someone else already said you'd need a smaller cassette like an 11-42.
@@lastfm4477 Before this I was running a 105 RD-R7000 (GS) with Roadlink DM which worked for up to 11-40 but was a bit noisy and I didn't feel it shifted as well as without the Roadlink.
Stated capacity is not the only thing to look at. In theory the RD-RX812 is better suited for use with larger cassettes like 11-42 as it doesn't require extending the B screw too much and there is no need for a hanger extension. This is due to 1x RDs moving at a slightly steeper angle as the cassettes intended for 1x (40+) have larger jumps between cogs.
It's still a complete mystery to me why Shimano has never released an official RD-RX812 SGS for use with 11-46 cassettes. With the cage mod the capacity is at least 47T when used with 2x, same as the RD-M8000.
Good to know about the compatibility between 11 and 12 speed.
2x12 mechanical GRX RD capacity seems to be substantially larger than specced (maybe in case someone used it with rear suspension lol). I got fed up with long, steep and loose ascents with 31:36, first took my MTB 10-51 cassette and FH body, added some links and tried how capacity looks like on 45T, then ordered 10-45, FH body and Roadlink DM. With that setup capacity is right on the edge - it won't break if accidentally crosschain big - big and still some tension left when small small. It doesn't want to index well, however - it will either work perfectly with 11 smaller cogs and won't want to stay on the biggest, or will be a bit noisy on cogs ~3-6 (guide pulley pulling a little too inwards and chain sliding on the edge of bigger cog). Straightened first hanger then installed Roadlink DM and used hanger alignment tool with it (should have tried how it works just after adjusting hanger itself... but I guess actually adapters' plane should be perpendicular to axle), but didn't help much. Needed to pull guide pulley a bit farther from the cassette than optimal to reduce the issue, but it is very much ridable, and range is spectacular for un/lightly laden mountain gravel riding. But surprised that there is an issue; need to measure, maybe on "MTB" Shimano 12spd cassettes distance between smallest and largest cog is slightly larger than on road cassettes and 1x-specific GRX RD has slightly different pull ratio? But I doubt it. Might start working better once cassette and chain get a bit worn in, they need to on Shimano 12spd... Need to check how it works with Roadlink DM and 11-36 and 11-34 that I use for road riding, cause I went straight to 10-45 when installing.
Great, thanks. I would love to know more about the front mechs you use.
Currently using the Sword Microshift FDs with no problem.
@@PathLessPedaledTV With shimano 10speed shifters?
@@jonathangreen7111 yes
Goodman, Keep Up the detailed analysis. 👍🇬🇧
Yes, continue with the larger cassete.
Please keep being the awesome drivetrain anarchist you are!!!
Good Video Series - Thinking outside the box!
I love the bike experiments!
Great interview.
Shimano's best friend for the party pace set, Russ, the Thinker. 😀
I've commented at Booth's channel I was glad he had taken on this project. Just so I could shut up in the comments here. And it's happened - you've taken on the reasoned approach. THANK YOU.
Commenting from a long time spent in this industry. Specs off or cut-and-pasted wrong? It gets worse. In working on receiving big orders of complete bikes I've called a major top 4 brand in the US and found they had less info than me (bike in hand). Feels like the tail is wagging the dog.
Makes sense a Euro brand has their act together on gear range and practicality - there's the treking catagory there and Americans are largely ignorant of it.
GREAT Video! Thank-you 😀
Love this channel and those experiments, but Microshift already have Dynasys 10 and 11 compatibly brifters on their production line, the SB-M100 and M110, meaning you can mount any 10/11 HG cassette you want just choosing the correct Dynays derailleur.
A nice improvement would be to find a compatibility hack to use LG cassetes cause they are better to shift under load. I think the LG cog pitch is close to HG 11s, but not the same.
Those exist but they're sort of meh with the old external cable routing.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Oh, my bad... they looked like internal routing on the site pictures, but they say external routing on the specs tho.
tbh I feel like I need to go back to friction in order to be able to criticize friction for what it really is. Thanks a lot for the content!
I love what you’re doing with this channel!
I've been planning to do this build myself, but I was wondering why you used the Deore cassettes instead of the ones from Cues? Many thanks!
The Cues ones are heavy and made for e-bikes.
I love this compatibility stuff :)
Another ultra wide range setup offers the deore xt 2x12 MTB group. I think it should be possible to run it with a 2x12 grx system :)
Gonna wait for a peak mechanical 2x11 ❤
Great video. If Shimano makes hydraulic Sti that are compatible with cues it will restore my faith😂.
Wow, I believe Sword and Advent are 1.1 pull ratio! Not 1.2 as you state. It works great with Shimano 11 speed MTB derraileurs, which are also 1.1 pull ratio. 1.2 is for Shimano 10 speed MTB and Microshift does not work with those! Not talking about Deore 5120, which is a Frankenstein of 10/11 speed with a 1.15 pull ratio
Just a heads up, if you're looking for an even cheaper option. Sensa. Gra-10 which is about $60 cheaper for the shifters has the same pull ratio as micro shift. I'm using it for my 1x setup right now for my gravel bike and it's working well so far
Good stuff as always Russ. I’m running the same cassette with an RD-M5120 and a 36/26 double up front. It’s pretty easy to spin out so I’ve been eyeing a 40t chainring to get a little more top end. Do you find the 40t to be enough for you?
I mean the difference doesnt seem so large, but it still crosses the magical 5% so I'd expect it to be rather rough
Glad to See it worked Out for you in the end though!
Great vid
Thanks for sharing
I’ve got a ‘23 Scalpel. No 2x, unfortunately. But I want to convert it to a drop bar gravel for some events. It’s a shamans 12 speed.
Mi pana saludos, execelentes videos , todos, todos tus videos son buenos, deberías tener una versión en español, bendiciones desde Venezuela.
Gracias! Todavia apprender español. En el futuro voy a hacer videos en español.
Thanks!
I've been racking my brains to try and make something like this fly, never considered Microshift brifters. How do you find the cable brakes?
Paired with Klampers it is 🤌🏼
Could you make a Video on the Shimano Essa? Love the simplicity of 8spd stuff and it seems to be the 8spd Drivetrain with the widest range
This looks perfect. It would be nice to see a test with the 11-45t 11spd please. How much does the Sklar weigh again with your regular daily ride stuff?
You should get an honorary PhD in bicycle drive train comparability.
I feel so far behind in the current drive train parts and really welcome your knowledge. I really love your gear range.
What's the app or site at 0:13 ?
What is the TH-cam channel RUss referenced? Boost Bike Projects?
Would you recommend this on a new bike? Im thinking if getting a titanium bike and trying to decide between mech or eshifters
Theoretically, there should be a dropbar cues shifters from shimano, because derailleur has cable tension adjustment. I think it will be, but cues was announced in 2022, so it is only one and half year on market, actually. And shimano is really slow in releasing new products.
If only Microshift sword/advent worked with MTB brake calipers. Will have to swap those out as well I guess.... or just use the friction shifter
Cues or S-Ride?
0:18 now that we are talking about gear range has anyone yet tried to fit 11-52t casette on to something like sturmey archer CS-RF3 hub? i think that would be pretty crazy.
Internal gear hubs have a maximum supported torque. Sadly, some of them do not document what it is. Looking at you, Shimano.
I'm still using my SRAM DualDrive 2 with 8 speed 11-34 and 38T front (upgraded to Rotor VEGAST 24 and Magene powermeter) on my steel hybrid bike. I like the original shifter but you probably could mount any RD and shifter for the RD-part. As Frostbiker mentions, there is a limit and I don't know where it is. I'm super heavy and already way over all limits. I wont ruin my hub by trying a larger cassette and RD, sorry. ;-).
There is an awesome website to calculate ranges including internal hubs. Sadly, it's German language only. google "franz schneck Entfaltungsrechner"
Also remember that CS-RF3 and SRAM DualDrive have a fixed axle, no QR, no through-axles. The SA CS-RF3 hub may work with brifters ("FD"), Bike Friday sold a brifter based setup for the SRAM DualDrive but it is noth smooth sailing. Pull ration is somewhat identical but inverted to the Torpedo 3-speed. You can dig deepter into both internal/external hybrids on forums about recumbent bikes where such things are still used albeit many switch to pedelecs and hence won't need another part that can break.
Cues is based on shimano 11 speed mtb because thst it has that cable pull ratio
Im wondering does the shimano cues 2x crankset 40-26 work with other shimano shifters like Shimano Altus? I have a hybrid bike that uses kmc 9 speed chain and 2x9 shimano altus shifters, so will there be compatability issues when you use the cues crankset?
So is the cues 8020 more similar to the grx 820?
Please try out this combo, been trying to get my bikepacking setup better but not happy yet with my 1x12……yet.
Will this combination work with rim brakes?
Yes
Wait, you’ve got the UNO brifter now?
Microshift Acolyte works with the Advent X cassette and shifters. $20 cheaper derailleur
It's also 1x only and doesn't work with this setup.
@@PathLessPedaledTV What makes it exclusively 1X? Rear is completely isolated from a front derailleur. Your saying
@@johnmills837 if it has a high offset rear pulley like other 1x derailleurs when you shift to the lower ring it will be incapable of taking up chain slack and run into the cassette. Thats what makes 1x derailleurs 1x specific.
You have to go 3x. Only one more part for more range from the same cassette.
Very little. I went from years of triples to a 42-26 double recommended by Russ.
Nearly the same range, tad over 600% with a lil ol 11-34 on the back.
A bigger range with a triple would be 24-34-44 but i believe most people dont need it bar heavily laden asphalt touring rigs.
Try a 9-46 E13 cassette if you have a xd freehub kicking around 😂
HG for life.
Can you drop a link for the channel you mention at 2:10 (boost bike projects?)
found it, it's @boothsbikeprojects
1:54 upsidedown bike alert.
I think I am going to buy my next bike with a Pinion Gearbox.
When you're comparing the two different CUES derailers, it wasn't clear which capacity dimension you were referring to. Chain wrap is a function of cage length, but max cog is mainly a function of paralellogram angle. It's possible for two rear derailers to have the same max cog capacity, but one with a longer cage to have more chain wrap capacity. For example, 9- and 10-speed-era Shimano "road triple" rear derailers had longer cage (and more chain wrap capacity) than regular road-double rear derailers, but the exact same max cog capacity.
Can you clarify this in future videos?
Chain wrap. 6020 was incorrectly listed as 48 when it was 44. 8020 is 48.
Can't quite catch the channel name of the person who is methodically measuring cable pull ratios? Would like to take a look.. has anyone found the channel? Thanks
Hi Russ! May I ask if a Cues shifter work on a Deore rear derailleur?
If it’s a dynasis derailleur it should be close enough.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thank you!
Are you using the Sword front derailleur?
Yes
I currently own a 11s Cues U6000 and a friend has an extra AdventX brifters. Will it work as a 1x?
It should.
ONE QUESTION... CAN SHIMANO ALFINE 11 SPEED WORK WITH ROAD SHIFTERS WITH WOOLFTOOTH TANPAN???????
NO
I'm always wondering if the advent X can do a 2x set up
I do intent to use down tube shifter and a 46/36 and the current 11-48
The 36 had been sufficient for me so far and could mash trails with it how ever in flats it kind of lacks
Russel has tried Advent X 2x. From memory I'm pretty sure it didn't work
Does CUES need a specific chain?
I just used an 11spd chain.
Friction shift
But doesn't Microshift claim to have 1,1 ratio, not 1,2? That would make it much closer to CUES than to Dyna-sys (CUES and DS being the most far apart of three)
I haven’t seen any claim printed anywhere.
@@PathLessPedaledTV well, technically the claim was about Advent X. But it is safe to tranfer it over Sword.
You didn't specify but I'm guessing you are running the cues FD in this hack? Or any FD would work?
Using the Microshift front derailleur.
friction shifting is joy!
I’ve been trying to find the pull ratio of the Shimano 10 speed Zee rear derailleur but have confusing results. Does anyone know the Zee RD ratio? I want to know if it would also work with the Sword brifters, or what other brifters it’s compatible with. The Zee is a solid product IMO.
Can you please provide a link to the channel started by your Discord member? I don't see it anywhere.
I literally put a screenshot of the channel in the video. Just type in the channel name. How hard is this?
@@PathLessPedaledTV I missed the name in the corner, apologies. A better question might be how hard is it not to reply with open hostility?
I have cues 10 speed u6000 rd and casset ,will it be compatible to MS brifters ?
Yes
So thats why my m5120 rd works with my cues 10 spd shifter 😂
Cues cassette?