Like to see another opinion. Totally agree with you. I don’t see why people praise the internal microphone so much in almost every single gadget nowadays…
Yeah, isn’t that crazy? How they hype up something like an internal mic deal when sensors and microphones are in practically everything now-even refrigerators sometimes! The actual raw components probably cost next to nothing, so making a big deal out of it just seems like a way to add some flair. They try to make it seem like they’re investing heavily in the product, but how much can it really cost? I bet it’s pennies.
@@Knightsnare Uh, are you just being a strawman here or is this a genuine take? Are you being obtuse on purpose? 2.09 - yes, your phone does, most phones cost more than this. It set a standard. That's the point. Uh... Wait, you don't have one? You never showed owning one. The fuck?
You aren't the target audience for this product, and that's ok. This is definitely more of a beginner tool or for someone who wants to work with limitations.
The idea of tools being categorized as beginner or advanced is definitely worth exploring, maybe even in a video. We know that with very simple tools, you can create amazing, complex things, while someone with a complex instrument sometimes struggles to make anything great. While this probably isn’t for someone who already has a well-established workflow, after years of doing things a certain way, it can be easy to get stuck in a routine. If this product had the potential to break that cycle and create new creative opportunities, I would be interested. However, I just don't see how it would be able to spark my creativity more than tools that are already available. But again, just my opinion. Thanks for your reply; I really appreciate it!
@@notreally-sf3df I didn't say it was limited. I said work with limitations (with relation to full blown Ableton). I agree that this tool offers a lot, depending on your workflow. But there's no question that this tool has limitations when compared to Full Ableton.
I’m not a beginner, tried it all, though can’t wait for Move (re) innovations to mobile with studio continuity. In my non-professional music live I did indeed capture song motives on a go phone, groovebox with battery. Still strive for better device and Moves has so many answers. My Ableton hooked to 5 analog synth (I mean analog == vintage MiniMoog, Subsequent 37CV, Buchla, ARP2600), all need CV. DC coupled out on the interface do much better on CV department than yet another plastic controller. Glad Move is focused on essentials and workflow. You lucky (and disciplined) to “just come to studio an rec an idea”. In my hectic life I need to keep playing while watching BBQ. My “studio” is a beaut facade but reality is I have to do my fckn programming work there while surrounded with all beaut synth LOL
@@Charles13X honestly I’m one of those people. I find the (to me) endless options offered by Ableton, M4L devices and the billions of plugins available quite daunting. I find my MPC Live daunting. I end up getting lost menu diving and second guessing myself, then inevitably going to do something else other than making music. I have ordered a Move and I’m looking forward to working within limitations which will hopefully not get in the way of being creative. If at some point I sketch out a tune I feel is worth developing, then I have the option to export directly into Ableton and do all that deep dive stuff, but at least I’ll have a foundation I built in Move to build upon in Ableton. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Please don’t take it as an offense, though “I’m pro, thats a toy for beginners” is rather common. One time I was watching Jean Michel Jarre in studio and spotted iPad with AniMoog, same “toy” I was thrilled with at that point, and still enjoying it. It’s part of my latest track (now as AUv3 on Mac). But it was so resonating seeming JMJ, not noob certainly. Cheers!
Thank you for your feedback! If I came off as snobby in the video, that wasn't my intention at all. I believe any tools can be great, and I’m just pointing out that an innovative company I love seemed a bit lazy in their innovation with the last release. I appreciate your comment!
@@Knightsnare I think it’s just a beginning and Ableton is up to something having 2 grooveboxes in their portfolio. In each category they beat competition with large velocity aftertouch on small form factor and MPE on full size groovebox. Game changer(s) for me. Cheers!
Good take 👍. After looking at Ableton and assessing how much the new Push was ($2k), I decided to go with an Akai MPC One and even with this new release, I’m still happier with sticking with the Akai as an outside platform. My goal was to be able to compose and link outside the computer and the Akai does it with amazing efficiency. No computer involved until I’m ready to track into Pro Tools.
I agree with the notion that if/when I feel inspired, I'd rather use my main setup than something of a secondary and more limited sketchpad. I guess it might be for a segment that travels a lot.. 🤔
Yeah, that’s a good point about people who travel a lot-I hadn’t really thought about that, but it makes sense. Also, for people with limited space to work, it’s really helpful. For years, I couldn’t have my setup the way I wanted, and if I had a little box like this to get ideas out, I’m sure I would’ve appreciated it. So yeah, great point!
I’m all for simple-minimalism is the way to go! That’s how I’ve always gotten the most music done. So I completely get it on that level. Personally, I also like the look of the machine; I think it’s elegant and sleek. I've always appreciated how their equipment has a great aesthetic design that fits into the idea of being minimal and clean. So, good point!
When I see what folks do with this device, THEN I’ll formulate an opinion. No sooner. This could be the boom bap machine that the OG’s are hoping for. People got wet in the seat over the KO2, and that’s a joke compared to what the Move is shaping up to be. Sample time ALONE makes a fool of the KO2. KO2 has some tasty performance effects, but that’s where the competition ends. But you have one thing right; you’re basing your perspective on your workflow, and workplace preferences. Personally, I spend 11 hours a day away from home. I get an hour @ lunch. If I can enjoy Push workflow @ lunch, instead of watching YT on my phone, that’s time and money well spent. I mean.. who is the OP-1 for? The SonicWare line? The KO2? The OP-Z? I hear more interesting stuff happening on Koala for iOS, regularly, than I hear from the guys with neon Batcaves filled w/ modular gear and a thousand spaghetti cables. And it’s VERY real. The app is not making music for them.
Yeah, I agree. Waiting to see how people use it before forming an opinion is probably the best move. My initial thought was that the product itself doesn’t seem too different from existing options, I was hoping for a shift towards some uncharted terrain. It might not fit perfectly into everyone's workflow, but I can see how it could be a great tool for making the most of a free hour without being stuck to a computer. Thanks for your reply! I think these machines are meant to boost productivity, which is cool, and I’m excited to see what people create with it. 😊
So far so good. I really enjoy that drift was included. Hoping to build some default presets for my user template. Not a fan of using an app so the Move is getting good use.
I was kind of excited hearing this was going to come out. It seems more of a intro device for people just getting into it. I still use my launchpad mk2 pretty much weekly. The thing for me is the pads are limited - there's only 4 rows.. I get much more out of a lunchpad paired with a launchcontrol xl or like an apc40 with Ableton Live. Move is kind of cool idea but not worth my $400 or so. I also do not see myself in any situation where I would be making beats without my laptop or the actual daw, so that's another thing.. Like I'm never at the library or laundromat/anywhere really where I don't have my laptop and just want to take out a standalone and make some stuff. 9/10 times I'm producing a beat to upload to my online store or creating for a sync commercial / media where it's a paid project, so honestly I just don't ever see me practically using this. Maybe for a college kid who wants to mess around or dip his toes into production but like you said, there's just so many other directions they can go besides this. It almost seems like they went backwards with a device compared to what they already have out. Would be nice to see an apc40 mk3 though. I asked them about it on X and they liked the post so who knows.
Hate this take so much. I've used live since 2003 and I'm super stoked for mine. Thinking lack of tracks equaling something from beginner makes me wonder how old you are. Must be an awkward age where you're too old for new shit and too young for old shit.
I don't use Ableton as my DAW, but I have seen the product designer of Move discuss the target audience for the product: Beginner with no experience, or studio equipment. It has integration with Abelton, but is based on an app with an extremely low barrier to entry. I don't even think this is for a musician per se, rather someone who wants to create something with technology with no ability to play an instrument.
I luv this unit! For all the cats that be crying about it don't have this or that, remember U if u a real beatmaker U can make a full song on anything, like the producers did in the 80s, with all the limitations they had
I agree with your general take that there’s nothing wildly innovative here. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be a good product. A new iPhone comes out every year with minor, incremental improvements over the previous model and people buy them like crazy. Who’s it for? It’s for all the same people that bought or were curious about Circuits. Sometimes a better version of a popular thing is exactly what the doctor ordered. 🤷♂️😁
I honestly see this as the best of the Circuit Tracks, Circuit Rhythm and some elements of the Polyend Play, even at the same price point. Might be the new Groovebox to get for beginners.
Hey, I get the parallel to the iPhone upgrades and how it feels like every year we’re getting something “new,” but I have a question for you. Does the iPhone 16 really give you anything significantly different from the iPhone 15? And if so, is it actually worth spending €1500 (or whatever the price is right now, I can't even remember)? The reason I’m asking is because when we think about musical equipment, for example, the newest model often isn’t that different from the previous generation. So why are we always so eager to spend more money? Curious to hear your thoughts on this!
I know there’s been a lot of talk about the Polyend upgrade and the appliance plus situation, but that was a pretty unique case. I’m not sure this is quite the same scenario. Sure, some gear gets a major overhaul, but more often than not, it’s small tweaks, and we might be overhyping the need to upgrade constantly. Just something to think about when comparing it to those rare, game-changing releases!
@@Knightsnare Ahhh…you gave away your assumptions there are the end. “We don’t need to be constantly upgrading.” Agreed! But I’m not upgrading. I never bought a Circuit or Polyend Play, but I’ve been curious. This just puts more options on the market for me, the consumer. Hard for me to see that as a bad thing.
This is a solid take, and I get where you're coming from-it touches on a lot of familiar ground. In my video, I was aiming to highlight how they've been doing this for almost 15 years. I think it's time to explore something new, something that's more on a different level. Let's push the boundaries a bit further, you know?
This is for a specific market. Think of it as Ableton's answer to Roland's Boutique series. I get what you mean but like someone already said, it's not for you and that's totally fine
Yeah, the point about these being kind of like a competitor to the Roland Boutique series is spot on. They’re mid-priced, so a lot of people can afford them, and since they’re small, they’re great for those with limited space who still want to use hardware. But I think your point further proves that these products are quite similar to what's already out there. My frustration is that it feels like a missed opportunity because I believe something new could have been made here.
Amazing 2001! I started using Live around 2003 and I remember the version I was using didn’t even have MIDI yet! In fact I think remember constantly having to call Ableton support which I think was connected to with M-audio here in California at the time. Ahahah 😮😅😅
@@Knightsnare Nah we’re young guys! I turned 40 but still feel like I’m in 20s, I’m certainly a man child. Did your version of Ableton have MIDI back then? I wonder what version I had. ✌️
Will he be able to use this with a cracked ableton? Ie : will he just have to stay away from ableton cloud and transfer his projects some other way? 😅🙏
seems these days "musicians" are just over hyped about toys and not spending actual time writing and recording music. The concept of songwriting is thousands of years old and we've had the equipment to make it happen easily for centuries. There's no problems to solve, only actual work to be done. But no one seems to want to do any work in order to create something anymore, which, is so boring to me.
It's not special. Basically it's an Ableton controller... with battery and some samples. The lack of regular midi out (the port that every tiny Roland toy have) kinda says it all... Nobody cared. Just use it on the go and then go back to laptop with Ableton. This is the use case and that's about it. The thing is that it should have been 250 not double. There is no bad gear, just wrong price tags.
I've been using ableton since 2007 or something. I don't own any modular gear currently but have other various synths that use CV and I agree with you about a missed opportunity there. Like a Single Headphone Jack to Sample In? Naah... Brutal. No Timestretch? Strike 2..I don't think this device is for either of us, but it may make some highschool kid or someone else out three happy.
I see a growing number of opinions basically saying that this kind of market is over saturated by gears that all do the same thing - more or less depending on the price tag - and that could maybe show one (sad) thing: we are at a peak, regarding the way these controller/synth/coffee machines evolved. And you actually mentioned that at the beginning of your hot take: innovation. It's getting very hard to innovate here. The proposal is the same and it's not inspirative (to me at least). The features are the same, the way you interact with the device is the same, you hit squishy rgb square pads so, at the end of the day, it does not trigger any sustainable inspiration IMHO. I don't know, I'm not sure, I don't own one so I speak without knowing, but I came across other topics like that for sure. It looks like a cool portable box to impress your friends though. Or maybe you prefer to carry your Solar 42f in your backpack ? 😁😅
Innovation is tough, but Novation and Ableton have shown with their forward-thinking approach that they can lead the way. That’s why I’m a bit confused about why they keep making similar products instead of something completely new, especially with the brilliant minds they have. What you said about being at the peak of something is really interesting-I kind of feel the same way about the whole Behringer hardware replica scene. It feels like we’ve reached a plateau with that, too. I want to look into this more because it's an intriguing idea-being at the peak of a musical equipment cycle. Also, the Solar 42 in the backpack comment was hilarious, LOL!
@@Knightsnare Yup! R&D is the key. But It costs a kidney. Cutting corners leads to mash up, deja vu. But still is a nice path for shareholders. They got to release below $500 gears like that to stay a leader in the race. Market laws.. That being said, I'm convinced, by listening to you, that they are a great team with a dream roadmap ahead. They need products like Move to attract more customers. Let's see what's the future holds! 🤞
Yeah, you’re right, but you know what’s crazy? Ableton is not a publicly traded company; it’s private and basically owned by just a few people. Over the years, I’m sure they’ve accumulated plenty of money to invest in R&D to create something really cool. But again...
@@Knightsnare Fair enough. And, wow, I didn't know, I just - wrongly - assumed they already were a public company, because, precisely, being under the pressure of greedy shareholders is what can sometimes put a company on the path of bad decisions (look what's happening to Sonos after they update their app in May 2024... topic for another time :D). I digress! Thanks for the insights, very instructive, I learned a lot by reading you about Ableton and thank you for that coz, I'm on the verge of deciding on which DAW I should use, and my shortlist is Ableton Live vs Presonus Studio One :D Need all the feedback possible for an informed decision ;)
Hipsters and casuals and marketing execs fantasize about making music in a park....which they never do. This will be perfect room decor for them. Depleted battery in a few years, so can't even sell.
I really hope this is a sincere comment because if you were truly able to make music while experiencing a journey, that’s honestly amazing! Capturing that kind of moment through music is something special. Keep doing what you’re doing-sounds like you’re onto something powerful!
i've got to break it to you - the launchpad wasn't an example of novation or anyone else "innovating". It was more or less a whole cloth theft of the monome - an admittedly difficult, niche product. It we have cause to thank novation it is for making such things easy, cheap and ubiquitous, but certainly not for innovating them.
Yeah, I remember MonoLake, I think. I'm going off the top of my head, but he was the artist who invented that machine. It was like a 64-grid box with launch pads on it, and it was the first time I saw anything like that. I don’t fully remember now, but there was also something called the Tenori-on, which was another example of how, as you rightfully said, Novation wasn’t really innovating. That’s a good point you made. And for those who don’t know, these may seem like small details, but in a way, you made a very good point.
@@Knightsnare Monolake didn't invent the damn Monome. Jeez. The Tenori-On was only the first of the appropriations. It isn't spoken of often because it was self-contained. It wasn't made to control other things - it made its own noises.
Robert Henke (part of the group Monolake) is a software engineer who develops custom software and hardware for live performances. As well as working as an engineer for Ableton, Henke designed the Atlantic Waves software for performing live with other producers in different countries simultaneously. In 2003, Henke designed the Monodeck, a MIDI-controller interface for spontaneous editing and effects work during live performances, even without having to look at the computer screen. The Monodeck and its successor, Monodeck II, control Ableton Live through special software designed with Max/MSP.
@@jon1979roma Yeah, that giant monstrosity. Henke's idea of an ideal musical interface is just a giant agglomeration of knobs, buttons and faders -a sharply opposite design philosophy to the Monome.
Here's my take is that not one company has nailed the market for this type of mobile making product. This thing looks like a pain in the ass to use and has a megre 4 tracks to use with limited versions of live instruments, insufficient storage and no VST support etc. The interface looks horrid and isn't ideal for mobile production. For me an iPad and Beatmaker 3 even after 7 years is still the best option for mobile production and generally future proof. That said the MPC One comes close though but it's too large to just bring out on the train or bus etc so the iPad still wins hands down. May not appear so cool and all but you can make tunes with a decent sample library and BM3!
A hot take, to me, is more about that gut reaction you get before fully diving into something-it’s a quick, unfiltered opinion based on initial thoughts. In this case, without having played with the gear myself, I’m just going off the specs and what I’ve seen so far, and honestly, I don’t see a huge difference from what’s already out there. It’s one of those situations where I’d love to get my hands on it to fully understand, but for now, I just don’t feel like it’s offering anything groundbreaking. What do you think a hot take should be?
Yeah... Those who say it's for beginners... If Move costed 250...I would agree with that. But for nearly 500...there are so many more options that provide waaaay more usability and functions. The fact that they provide more options, doesn't mean you have to uae them all when you starting. But you will grow by learning and discovering new functions over time. Argument "if you want to work with limitations" is also...weak. If you want to limit yourself to 4 tracks...just use 4 tracks. No need to pay 500€ for that privilage. Don't get me wrong. I can see some use for it. You are going camping or on a long flight and want to pass time by doodling...perfect. But if you are looking for proper controller....save more and get push or spend less and get Launchpad imho.
It's remarkable that we now live in a time with virtually no creative limitations. The notion that companies are marketing restrictions as a desirable feature seems like a workaround to avoid delivering the products we actually want. We shouldn't buy into the idea that we need these constraints.
I own everything you compare it at, at the $500 pricepoint. I'm still buying one. This has 5 huge unique functions and a brand new type of usability. If you don't think it's worth it, sick, but you're the one who doesn't have the funds. There is 0% crossover between a launchpad and this, it isnt a controller at all.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect that-yours as much as mine. I might have misunderstood your point about the budget constraints; that wasn't the angle I was addressing. Thanks for sharing your views!
@@notreally-sf3df Really weird flex about being able to afford it. And even weirder about owning everything you can compare it to at 500 price point. Good for you. Glad you made it😅
For Sure a lot of people buy gear in this price range and never make any music. They think the gear will somehow magically help them make music instantly. They aren’t really artists, they are more people into music. I like your analogy of vinyl collectors. A lot of people will buy ableton move and will never use it past a few hours in their whole lifetime.
![Battle of Beats: Ableton Move vs. Novation Circuits! [Reaction Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qbeudqBsQ9I/mqdefault.jpg)
Like to see another opinion. Totally agree with you. I don’t see why people praise the internal microphone so much in almost every single gadget nowadays…
Yeah, isn’t that crazy? How they hype up something like an internal mic deal when sensors and microphones are in practically everything now-even refrigerators sometimes! The actual raw components probably cost next to nothing, so making a big deal out of it just seems like a way to add some flair. They try to make it seem like they’re investing heavily in the product, but how much can it really cost? I bet it’s pennies.
@@Knightsnare Uh, are you just being a strawman here or is this a genuine take? Are you being obtuse on purpose?
2.09 - yes, your phone does, most phones cost more than this. It set a standard. That's the point.
Uh... Wait, you don't have one? You never showed owning one. The fuck?
You aren't the target audience for this product, and that's ok. This is definitely more of a beginner tool or for someone who wants to work with limitations.
The idea of tools being categorized as beginner or advanced is definitely worth exploring, maybe even in a video. We know that with very simple tools, you can create amazing, complex things, while someone with a complex instrument sometimes struggles to make anything great.
While this probably isn’t for someone who already has a well-established workflow, after years of doing things a certain way, it can be easy to get stuck in a routine. If this product had the potential to break that cycle and create new creative opportunities, I would be interested. However, I just don't see how it would be able to spark my creativity more than tools that are already available. But again, just my opinion. Thanks for your reply; I really appreciate it!
I strongly disagree with this. I'm not a beginner and I don't see it as limited.
@@notreally-sf3df I didn't say it was limited. I said work with limitations (with relation to full blown Ableton). I agree that this tool offers a lot, depending on your workflow. But there's no question that this tool has limitations when compared to Full Ableton.
I’m not a beginner, tried it all, though can’t wait for Move (re) innovations to mobile with studio continuity. In my non-professional music live I did indeed capture song motives on a go phone, groovebox with battery. Still strive for better device and Moves has so many answers.
My Ableton hooked to 5 analog synth (I mean analog == vintage MiniMoog, Subsequent 37CV, Buchla, ARP2600), all need CV. DC coupled out on the interface do much better on CV department than yet another plastic controller. Glad Move is focused on essentials and workflow.
You lucky (and disciplined) to “just come to studio an rec an idea”. In my hectic life I need to keep playing while watching BBQ. My “studio” is a beaut facade but reality is I have to do my fckn programming work there while surrounded with all beaut synth LOL
@@Charles13X honestly I’m one of those people. I find the (to me) endless options offered by Ableton, M4L devices and the billions of plugins available quite daunting. I find my MPC Live daunting. I end up getting lost menu diving and second guessing myself, then inevitably going to do something else other than making music. I have ordered a Move and I’m looking forward to working within limitations which will hopefully not get in the way of being creative. If at some point I sketch out a tune I feel is worth developing, then I have the option to export directly into Ableton and do all that deep dive stuff, but at least I’ll have a foundation I built in Move to build upon in Ableton. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Please don’t take it as an offense, though “I’m pro, thats a toy for beginners” is rather common. One time I was watching Jean Michel Jarre in studio and spotted iPad with AniMoog, same “toy” I was thrilled with at that point, and still enjoying it. It’s part of my latest track (now as AUv3 on Mac). But it was so resonating seeming JMJ, not noob certainly. Cheers!
Thank you for your feedback! If I came off as snobby in the video, that wasn't my intention at all. I believe any tools can be great, and I’m just pointing out that an innovative company I love seemed a bit lazy in their innovation with the last release. I appreciate your comment!
@@Knightsnare I think it’s just a beginning and Ableton is up to something having 2 grooveboxes in their portfolio. In each category they beat competition with large velocity aftertouch on small form factor and MPE on full size groovebox. Game changer(s) for me. Cheers!
Good take 👍. After looking at Ableton and assessing how much the new Push was ($2k), I decided to go with an Akai MPC One and even with this new release, I’m still happier with sticking with the Akai as an outside platform.
My goal was to be able to compose and link outside the computer and the Akai does it with amazing efficiency. No computer involved until I’m ready to track into Pro Tools.
I agree with the notion that if/when I feel inspired, I'd rather use my main setup than something of a secondary and more limited sketchpad. I guess it might be for a segment that travels a lot.. 🤔
Yeah, that’s a good point about people who travel a lot-I hadn’t really thought about that, but it makes sense. Also, for people with limited space to work, it’s really helpful. For years, I couldn’t have my setup the way I wanted, and if I had a little box like this to get ideas out, I’m sure I would’ve appreciated it. So yeah, great point!
Simplistic quality. It does a lot at this price point. Its a multitimbral, multitrack synth/sampler/groove box, audio interface.
Yet, SIMPLE.
I’m all for simple-minimalism is the way to go! That’s how I’ve always gotten the most music done. So I completely get it on that level. Personally, I also like the look of the machine; I think it’s elegant and sleek. I've always appreciated how their equipment has a great aesthetic design that fits into the idea of being minimal and clean. So, good point!
When I see what folks do with this device, THEN I’ll formulate an opinion. No sooner. This could be the boom bap machine that the OG’s are hoping for. People got wet in the seat over the KO2, and that’s a joke compared to what the Move is shaping up to be. Sample time ALONE makes a fool of the KO2. KO2 has some tasty performance effects, but that’s where the competition ends.
But you have one thing right; you’re basing your perspective on your workflow, and workplace preferences. Personally, I spend 11 hours a day away from home. I get an hour @ lunch. If I can enjoy Push workflow @ lunch, instead of watching YT on my phone, that’s time and money well spent. I mean.. who is the OP-1 for? The SonicWare line? The KO2? The OP-Z? I hear more interesting stuff happening on Koala for iOS, regularly, than I hear from the guys with neon Batcaves filled w/ modular gear and a thousand spaghetti cables. And it’s VERY real. The app is not making music for them.
Yeah, I agree. Waiting to see how people use it before forming an opinion is probably the best move. My initial thought was that the product itself doesn’t seem too different from existing options, I was hoping for a shift towards some uncharted terrain. It might not fit perfectly into everyone's workflow, but I can see how it could be a great tool for making the most of a free hour without being stuck to a computer. Thanks for your reply!
I think these machines are meant to boost productivity, which is cool, and I’m excited to see what people create with it. 😊
So far so good. I really enjoy that drift was included. Hoping to build some default presets for my user template. Not a fan of using an app so the Move is getting good use.
Love Drift ❤
Valid points! It's definitely not for everyone.
I was kind of excited hearing this was going to come out. It seems more of a intro device for people just getting into it. I still use my launchpad mk2 pretty much weekly. The thing for me is the pads are limited - there's only 4 rows.. I get much more out of a lunchpad paired with a launchcontrol xl or like an apc40 with Ableton Live. Move is kind of cool idea but not worth my $400 or so. I also do not see myself in any situation where I would be making beats without my laptop or the actual daw, so that's another thing.. Like I'm never at the library or laundromat/anywhere really where I don't have my laptop and just want to take out a standalone and make some stuff. 9/10 times I'm producing a beat to upload to my online store or creating for a sync commercial / media where it's a paid project, so honestly I just don't ever see me practically using this. Maybe for a college kid who wants to mess around or dip his toes into production but like you said, there's just so many other directions they can go besides this. It almost seems like they went backwards with a device compared to what they already have out.
Would be nice to see an apc40 mk3 though. I asked them about it on X and they liked the post so who knows.
Hate this take so much. I've used live since 2003 and I'm super stoked for mine. Thinking lack of tracks equaling something from beginner makes me wonder how old you are. Must be an awkward age where you're too old for new shit and too young for old shit.
I don't use Ableton as my DAW, but I have seen the product designer of Move discuss the target audience for the product: Beginner with no experience, or studio equipment. It has integration with Abelton, but is based on an app with an extremely low barrier to entry. I don't even think this is for a musician per se, rather someone who wants to create something with technology with no ability to play an instrument.
I can see that.
Sounds like you might be very into the Oxi One if you haven't explored IT yet 🤙🌌
Oh yeah 😎
I luv this unit! For all the cats that be crying about it don't have this or that, remember U if u a real beatmaker U can make a full song on anything, like the producers did in the 80s, with all the limitations they had
I agree with your general take that there’s nothing wildly innovative here. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be a good product. A new iPhone comes out every year with minor, incremental improvements over the previous model and people buy them like crazy. Who’s it for? It’s for all the same people that bought or were curious about Circuits. Sometimes a better version of a popular thing is exactly what the doctor ordered. 🤷♂️😁
I honestly see this as the best of the Circuit Tracks, Circuit Rhythm and some elements of the Polyend Play, even at the same price point. Might be the new Groovebox to get for beginners.
Hey, I get the parallel to the iPhone upgrades and how it feels like every year we’re getting something “new,” but I have a question for you. Does the iPhone 16 really give you anything significantly different from the iPhone 15? And if so, is it actually worth spending €1500 (or whatever the price is right now, I can't even remember)? The reason I’m asking is because when we think about musical equipment, for example, the newest model often isn’t that different from the previous generation. So why are we always so eager to spend more money? Curious to hear your thoughts on this!
I know there’s been a lot of talk about the Polyend upgrade and the appliance plus situation, but that was a pretty unique case. I’m not sure this is quite the same scenario. Sure, some gear gets a major overhaul, but more often than not, it’s small tweaks, and we might be overhyping the need to upgrade constantly. Just something to think about when comparing it to those rare, game-changing releases!
@@Knightsnare Ahhh…you gave away your assumptions there are the end. “We don’t need to be constantly upgrading.” Agreed! But I’m not upgrading. I never bought a Circuit or Polyend Play, but I’ve been curious. This just puts more options on the market for me, the consumer. Hard for me to see that as a bad thing.
This is a solid take, and I get where you're coming from-it touches on a lot of familiar ground. In my video, I was aiming to highlight how they've been doing this for almost 15 years. I think it's time to explore something new, something that's more on a different level. Let's push the boundaries a bit further, you know?
I will save and get the Push 3. Out on this..
This is for a specific market. Think of it as Ableton's answer to Roland's Boutique series. I get what you mean but like someone already said, it's not for you and that's totally fine
Yeah, the point about these being kind of like a competitor to the Roland Boutique series is spot on. They’re mid-priced, so a lot of people can afford them, and since they’re small, they’re great for those with limited space who still want to use hardware. But I think your point further proves that these products are quite similar to what's already out there. My frustration is that it feels like a missed opportunity because I believe something new could have been made here.
Amazing 2001! I started using Live around 2003 and I remember the version I was using didn’t even have MIDI yet! In fact I think remember constantly having to call Ableton support which I think was connected to with M-audio here in California at the time. Ahahah 😮😅😅
Starting to feel old...
@@Knightsnare Nah we’re young guys! I turned 40 but still feel like I’m in 20s, I’m certainly a man child. Did your version of Ableton have MIDI back then? I wonder what version I had. ✌️
People like portable gear. This is more for a beginner. I agree it’s lacking a lot for me. I wouldn’t use it unless they fix a bunch of things.
You thinking it's for beginners makes me think like you're stuck being a beginner.
Will he be able to use this with a cracked ableton? Ie : will he just have to stay away from ableton cloud and transfer his projects some other way? 😅🙏
It is not going to replace my push 2 😄
Many people criticizing expect this equipment to cost half as much when they are used to seeing worse things for the same price.
Totally agree with all you said!
If you dont have one.... How do you comment???
seems these days "musicians" are just over hyped about toys and not spending actual time writing and recording music. The concept of songwriting is thousands of years old and we've had the equipment to make it happen easily for centuries. There's no problems to solve, only actual work to be done. But no one seems to want to do any work in order to create something anymore, which, is so boring to me.
It's not special. Basically it's an Ableton controller... with battery and some samples.
The lack of regular midi out (the port that every tiny Roland toy have) kinda says it all... Nobody cared.
Just use it on the go and then go back to laptop with Ableton. This is the use case and that's about it.
The thing is that it should have been 250 not double.
There is no bad gear, just wrong price tags.
Looking forward to the Bad Gear episode!
@@Knightsnare haha me too!
i mean i get the idea of a sketch book, but its 2024 not 1994. so its just a toy to make money for ableton and to giveaway their lite versions :D
I've been using ableton since 2007 or something. I don't own any modular gear currently but have other various synths that use CV and I agree with you about a missed opportunity there. Like a Single Headphone Jack to Sample In? Naah... Brutal. No Timestretch? Strike 2..I don't think this device is for either of us, but it may make some highschool kid or someone else out three happy.
You haven’t tried OPZ probably, then you would get idea of sketchpad:)
The move is fine as it is. Its not the product that you want, and thats ok.
Close your eyes and listen. It’s Elon Musk.
I see a growing number of opinions basically saying that this kind of market is over saturated by gears that all do the same thing - more or less depending on the price tag - and that could maybe show one (sad) thing: we are at a peak, regarding the way these controller/synth/coffee machines evolved. And you actually mentioned that at the beginning of your hot take: innovation. It's getting very hard to innovate here. The proposal is the same and it's not inspirative (to me at least). The features are the same, the way you interact with the device is the same, you hit squishy rgb square pads so, at the end of the day, it does not trigger any sustainable inspiration IMHO. I don't know, I'm not sure, I don't own one so I speak without knowing, but I came across other topics like that for sure. It looks like a cool portable box to impress your friends though. Or maybe you prefer to carry your Solar 42f in your backpack ? 😁😅
Innovation is tough, but Novation and Ableton have shown with their forward-thinking approach that they can lead the way. That’s why I’m a bit confused about why they keep making similar products instead of something completely new, especially with the brilliant minds they have. What you said about being at the peak of something is really interesting-I kind of feel the same way about the whole Behringer hardware replica scene. It feels like we’ve reached a plateau with that, too. I want to look into this more because it's an intriguing idea-being at the peak of a musical equipment cycle. Also, the Solar 42 in the backpack comment was hilarious, LOL!
@@Knightsnare Yup! R&D is the key. But It costs a kidney. Cutting corners leads to mash up, deja vu. But still is a nice path for shareholders. They got to release below $500 gears like that to stay a leader in the race. Market laws.. That being said, I'm convinced, by listening to you, that they are a great team with a dream roadmap ahead. They need products like Move to attract more customers. Let's see what's the future holds! 🤞
Yeah, you’re right, but you know what’s crazy? Ableton is not a publicly traded company; it’s private and basically owned by just a few people. Over the years, I’m sure they’ve accumulated plenty of money to invest in R&D to create something really cool. But again...
@@Knightsnare Fair enough. And, wow, I didn't know, I just - wrongly - assumed they already were a public company, because, precisely, being under the pressure of greedy shareholders is what can sometimes put a company on the path of bad decisions (look what's happening to Sonos after they update their app in May 2024... topic for another time :D). I digress! Thanks for the insights, very instructive, I learned a lot by reading you about Ableton and thank you for that coz, I'm on the verge of deciding on which DAW I should use, and my shortlist is Ableton Live vs Presonus Studio One :D Need all the feedback possible for an informed decision ;)
Ableton all day IMO for DAW choice
Hipsters and casuals and marketing execs fantasize about making music in a park....which they never do. This will be perfect room decor for them. Depleted battery in a few years, so can't even sell.
Thought it was a scam as well until my friend and I made 3 really fun songs on his OP-1 while we took a break from a hike we were on.
@@afriendofjamis That one time sounds like a huge ROI.
I really hope this is a sincere comment because if you were truly able to make music while experiencing a journey, that’s honestly amazing! Capturing that kind of moment through music is something special. Keep doing what you’re doing-sounds like you’re onto something powerful!
i've got to break it to you - the launchpad wasn't an example of novation or anyone else "innovating". It was more or less a whole cloth theft of the monome - an admittedly difficult, niche product. It we have cause to thank novation it is for making such things easy, cheap and ubiquitous, but certainly not for innovating them.
Yeah, I remember MonoLake, I think. I'm going off the top of my head, but he was the artist who invented that machine. It was like a 64-grid box with launch pads on it, and it was the first time I saw anything like that. I don’t fully remember now, but there was also something called the Tenori-on, which was another example of how, as you rightfully said, Novation wasn’t really innovating. That’s a good point you made. And for those who don’t know, these may seem like small details, but in a way, you made a very good point.
@@Knightsnare Monolake didn't invent the damn Monome. Jeez. The Tenori-On was only the first of the appropriations. It isn't spoken of often because it was self-contained. It wasn't made to control other things - it made its own noises.
Robert Henke (part of the group Monolake) is a software engineer who develops custom software and hardware for live performances. As well as working as an engineer for Ableton, Henke designed the Atlantic Waves software for performing live with other producers in different countries simultaneously.
In 2003, Henke designed the Monodeck, a MIDI-controller interface for spontaneous editing and effects work during live performances, even without having to look at the computer screen. The Monodeck and its successor, Monodeck II, control Ableton Live through special software designed with Max/MSP.
@@jon1979roma Yeah, that giant monstrosity. Henke's idea of an ideal musical interface is just a giant agglomeration of knobs, buttons and faders -a sharply opposite design philosophy to the Monome.
Here's my take is that not one company has nailed the market for this type of mobile making product. This thing looks like a pain in the ass to use and has a megre 4 tracks to use with limited versions of live instruments, insufficient storage and no VST support etc. The interface looks horrid and isn't ideal for mobile production. For me an iPad and Beatmaker 3 even after 7 years is still the best option for mobile production and generally future proof. That said the MPC One comes close though but it's too large to just bring out on the train or bus etc so the iPad still wins hands down. May not appear so cool and all but you can make tunes with a decent sample library and BM3!
Not shaming you or anything, but how is this a hot take? I think this is the take of literally 95%+ of the Ableton users
A hot take, to me, is more about that gut reaction you get before fully diving into something-it’s a quick, unfiltered opinion based on initial thoughts. In this case, without having played with the gear myself, I’m just going off the specs and what I’ve seen so far, and honestly, I don’t see a huge difference from what’s already out there. It’s one of those situations where I’d love to get my hands on it to fully understand, but for now, I just don’t feel like it’s offering anything groundbreaking. What do you think a hot take should be?
Yeah...
Those who say it's for beginners...
If Move costed 250...I would agree with that. But for nearly 500...there are so many more options that provide waaaay more usability and functions.
The fact that they provide more options, doesn't mean you have to uae them all when you starting.
But you will grow by learning and discovering new functions over time.
Argument "if you want to work with limitations" is also...weak. If you want to limit yourself to 4 tracks...just use 4 tracks. No need to pay 500€ for that privilage.
Don't get me wrong. I can see some use for it. You are going camping or on a long flight and want to pass time by doodling...perfect.
But if you are looking for proper controller....save more and get push or spend less and get Launchpad imho.
It's remarkable that we now live in a time with virtually no creative limitations. The notion that companies are marketing restrictions as a desirable feature seems like a workaround to avoid delivering the products we actually want. We shouldn't buy into the idea that we need these constraints.
I own everything you compare it at, at the $500 pricepoint.
I'm still buying one. This has 5 huge unique functions and a brand new type of usability.
If you don't think it's worth it, sick, but you're the one who doesn't have the funds. There is 0% crossover between a launchpad and this, it isnt a controller at all.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect that-yours as much as mine. I might have misunderstood your point about the budget constraints; that wasn't the angle I was addressing. Thanks for sharing your views!
@@notreally-sf3df
Really weird flex about being able to afford it. And even weirder about owning everything you can compare it to at 500 price point. Good for you. Glad you made it😅
For Sure a lot of people buy gear in this price range and never make any music. They think the gear will somehow magically help them make music instantly. They aren’t really artists, they are more people into music. I like your analogy of vinyl collectors. A lot of people will buy ableton move and will never use it past a few hours in their whole lifetime.
it's really funny that everyone who's not buying one has an opinion.