Top 10 Moves That Should Be DELETED From Smash
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2021
- There are a lot of moves in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. This is not always a good thing. With the final balance patch winding down at the time of upload, let's take a look at 10 moves that don't just need to be patched...they need to be deleted.
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Thanks for watching!
#SuperSmashBros #Nintendo #Sora - เกม
Thanks for watching everyone! This is obviously a topic that people are going to have wildly different opinions on, let me know what you thought of the list and what yours would look like!
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Personally I had an issue with joker's down b, I kinda wished they gave him multi persona....until Sakurai talked about how difficult joker already was to make and considering that I still wish he didn't get that weird counter but also not a counter.
I agree with you about Toon Link's Hurricane Spin, after all it was one of the three options for costume moves in Smash 4.
Man, I saw warlock punch coming and yeah it’s controversial. I am a ganon main, have been for a long long time. Warlock punch is useless garbage that has no inspiration from anything and hardly any use. HOWEVER, you gotta give ganon a kill at any percent if shield break option. And suicide kills don’t count. I’m talking about a massive hit that would only really connect in huge stun like shield break or sleep or a massive read. Ganons whole gameplay weirdly relies on the fact that you don’t want your shield broken because of warlock punch.
I like this idea, maybe you could run through the entire cast and give one move that you would replace/rework to either balance or better represent the character.
I have an idea for the Links up-B’s. Keep them all as they are for now, just at their base charge. But when fully charged, make Toon Links Hurricane spin like you said, Young Links can have a magic attack like in ocerina of time since that’s the link he’s based off of, and adult link can have Urbosa’s fury.
Just a note about luigi’s cyclone, but he has had tornadoes weirdly associated for his character for a while. For example, his star swing and pitch in Mario super sluggers both involve tornadoes. I don’t know the reason for this, but he does have a history of being associated with tornadoes aside from what you mentioned. Great video, nonetheless, though.
Even stranger is the fact that tornadoes were initially something more often associated with Waluigi, but for the two games that you mentionned the motif was passed down to Luigi and every subsequent games after those tornadoes continued to be associated with Waluigi !
This is a fair point and one I was more reminded of after recording had wrapped and I was combing through some footage of Luigi in various games. I still think this is an extremely boring and annoying move, and not the way I’d want to see a tornado reference appear on his kit, but valid point!
Probably because the Asian element for Green is wind, which represents life. Which is what Luigi is full of, even opposing the corruption color Purple in King Boo and that other ghost that represents the "gloom" of the Manor and literally comes out of a grave.
It might be worth mentioning that Smash did at some point influence some Mario Sports games. I think in Mario Sports Mix he can literally use Green Missile in some games. So it might be this weird "adopted" move just like the Falcon Punch appeared in the F-Zero anime despite never showing up or being referenced in any F-Zero game (aside from Climax which has a summary of every anime chapter)
Still, Luigi Cyclone absolutely originated from Super Mario World's spin jump. The move might've been updated over the years to become its own thing but the origin remains the same.
@@ddraven3180 That's needlessly aggressive
For KO-Punch I feel like the upper cut should really have that as a base neutral special with a star meter for increasing its power by hitting consecutive moves. It should be a snowballing mechanic like in punch out Wii.
That’s not exactly a bad idea, but having snowballers in a platform fighter doesn’t sound fun for anybody involved
@@Edgeperor Rivals has two very well balanced snowball/settup hybrid characters that aren't seen as unfun to fight by many, so to me it's not a question of "would a snowball character be fun to fight against in a platform fighter" but instead "would the SMASH team be able to make a snowball character that is fun to fight" !
The best take I’ve seen
I actually think his KO-Punch should be work in tandem with his Counter, in a similar way to Incineroar's revenge. The K.O. meter only shows in the Arcade Punch-Out!! where Mac was a weird green-haired wireframe dude and Super Punch-Out!! where he was some blonde dude. Meanwhile the other two (way more iconic) games where we have this black-haired Mac have Stars instead. You earn Stars (generally) by punching the opponent when they're in the middle of launching a punch or a taunt, and then you can unleash the powerful Star Punch.
What if KO-Punch turned into the best anti projectile move, reflecting them stronger than any other reflector can? Balanced, IDK. A funny a comeback mechanic, absolutely
I've seen many people say just put Ganondorf's moveset on Black Shadow from F-Zero and rework Ganondorf and honestly I really hope they do that because as much as I want Ganondorf to be reworked I also love his current moveset just not on him
1 million people have been saying this since Brawl lol. Shame we didn't get more echoes. Missed opportunity.
Oh I just remembered too! Project M Ex Remix has the best of all lol. Not only does it add Black Shadow but Blood Falcon as well. Plus Ganondorf is still in with the option to use a sword version of him AND even friggin Phantom Ganon is there. So you get all the Falcondorf you want from the most falcony Falcon to the most actually ganon Ganon.
That's an amazing idea. We could have a Ganon that actually feels like Ganon and his moveset on someone that would actually fit on a character.
An easier solution would just be to have two Ganondorfs, similar to the two Zeldas and three Links we have. Black Shadow does make more intuitive sense, but I want the moveset to not just be fun but also competitively viable and getting rid of the neutral special punch is top priority in that regard (something which would be less likely if the moveset was given to Black Shadow since he would need to have his own version of his rival's most famous move).
I've mained Ganon since Brawl and would be devasted to see that moveset be completely scrapped. Black Shadow is fucking awesome and I honestly think I'd love Ganondorf's moveset on him MORE. It'd represent more of F Zero and preserve the moveset in one fell swoop.
I think that Little Mac should keep K.O. Punch, but with a different gimmick that mimics the games better; I.E. the Star Punch charge mechanic. Hit someone while they’re in startup time to give a star, maxing out at 3. It could work in a way that every time you use neutral-b you lose a star; have 3 stars and you get something akin to K.O. Punch, but not quite as powerful; have no stars and you get the charge-up punch.
Have 3 charges, the first is a great and reliable kill move around 80, have the 2 star around 60 and the 3 star around 40%. Not only would we have different options but also something that doesn't kill at 20 and is the only reason hes balanced.
As a mac main this would actually be better but like I said ko punches the only thing keeping us worse than ganon
(MockRock does say that he would need a full rework of we were to take it away)
Now that you mention it, this does sound like a good idea to incorporate the Star Punch in some form. Of course, Mac’s kit would need to be adjusted a bit to keep this gimmick from being too abusable.
I would still keep Ultimate’s KO Punch animation though, as it references how he performs a Star Punch from his series.
@@ABAgamer_ glad the animation stays, it's a good one.
A small problem would be that in the NES Punch-Out, you consume stars separately to lanch up to three Star Punch, while in the Wii Punch-Out, you only get one Star Punch of increasing power depending on how many stars you spend to perform it, and it's a crapshoot as to which one would be picked. I think the latter incarnation is more interesting, as you lose all your Stars if you get hit. It could create an interesting dynamic where both players are playing really carefully to land a hit if Mac starts accumulating stars.
"So for now I've been easing you into this list"
Oh no
"Here's a move some people might take issue with"
OH NO
"Little Mac's KO Punch"
Oh. I'm okay with that
Also I'm not sure if this was missed or not, but DK's Down-B is a reference to Donkey Kong Country.
I figured I should mention just in case
@@JacobSC_ Yeah! We should keep that special move. It's a good reference, and it's fun to use so yeah
hi sonic
For DK I feel like it could be neat to replace his neutral special with a barrel toss. Then make his forward throw a normal throw and move cargo carry to his forward special as a command grab where he'd still get all his different cargo throws.
@@derbear3403 Or, we could make it like what Duke Of Dorks did, and make the nuetral special slam a lid and the barrel together, trapping anyone who gets inside and making a throwable barrel regardless if someone gets trapped inside, whilst making moving down special to sidespecial and making it a potential movement option. Therefore, we give DK tools that he desperately needs and we also preserve his stronkness. And also replace the Upspecial with the barrel thing, just because of the fact that it is better as an aggressive recovery option.
Full disclosure, I was expecting you to cheat and just put Ganondorf's *entire moveset* onto the list in one slot. So uh, bravo on the restraint, apologies for having so little faith M-Rock.
It was tempting. After "The Sad Story of Kirby" on the main channel I got a lot of requests to do the same thing for Ganondorf, if that ever happens you'll hear me really let loose lol
@@MockRockTalk yeah the whole Falcondorf thing needs to stop, for Smash 6 ( if there is one) Nintendo needs to either completely declone Ganondorf or not put him in the game at all.
Give Ganon a float ability or at least faster air speed and better drift since he literally flies in the Zelda series. And then of course he should have a great projectile of some sort since half of his most iconic battles feature projectiles heavily.
I think a neutral B similar to Zelda's makes sense, like when he recovers his strength in Ocarina of Time with a little burst pose. Gives him a way to deal with projectiles and combos.
Guess what ganondorf has new tech
@@tobybrooks7538 oh yeah? Do tell.
Since Ganon is based on his OoT version, they could change the punch for his electric magic orb attack, maybe even let him charge it to throw multiple orbs like in the game
Going one step further, they could replace his Flame Choke with a variation of Mario's Cape.
@@TheTrueBrawler going one step further, make him mage ganondorf from pm
@@koliman1588 going one step further, replace down-b with his reflect move from ocarina of time
@@sludgemute going one step further, make every single one of his moves his final smash
@@TheTrueBrawler I think Flame Choke is cool, though, and it's one of the only references to the actual games in his moveset.
Another note about the Links, particularly their final smashes:
- Link’s Ancient Arrow is really cool but it should kill you instantly above 60-70% like it does in Breath of the Wild instead of launching
- Young Link having the Triforce Slash is lazy and I think it should be replaced with the Fierce Deity to allude to Majora’s Mask. It works fine for Toon Link.
A decently fast projectile Inna zoning character killing at 60-70% sounds extremely annoying for literally everyone.
@@luisgarcia1337 Ancient arrow is Link's final smash so it wouldn't affect normal gameplay
@@Kyara7 ah ok. I thought it was the neutral B for some reason.
Make it kill at 100% like the other instakilling moves
I'd say 100% like the other final smashes
See Ike's counter could easily be replaced because then you could move Eruption to down special. After seeing Ike use projectiles, why doesn't he use one...
Especially cause Ike has one of the worst counters of the FE characters
Besides a few exceptions like Sephiroth and maybe Joker, counters are kinda boring and esaily replaced
@@cuauhtlitorres3742 I wouldn't mind counters if they weren't just handed out as easy down b's and if they actually worked like Sora's
Like Shulk's should be so good on paper but the hitbox is so strange
@@cuauhtlitorres3742 Yeah. Like, Sephiroth has easily my favourite counter in the game. Others include Incineroar and Sora; Seph and Incin have actual counterplay, and Sora's actually works a solid chunk of the time.
@@cuauhtlitorres3742 I personally like lucario's and Greninja's because of the movement aspect of them
I wish Kirby's Hammer still span around him in midair like Melee but hit like brawl. One of Kirby's biggest weaknesses is how easily he gets outspaced so it'd be nice for him to have one move that gives him a big "Get off me" space around him that you have to respect. Instead hammer is just...about the same distance as his fair or Bair except even more of a commitment. It's like they're afraid to make hammer good. There's times where I forget he has that move because it's so superfluous on his kit. It doesn't do anything any of his other moves don't do easier unless you commit to charging the whole thing for a split second of superarmor. And nobody in their right mind is going to let themselves be hit by it because unlike Dedede, Kirby's not an imposing character who can cover jumps and has super armor for days that you have to respect. And even Dedede's side-B is more of a Niche move. I dunno...make it so that kirby can still fly while charging with it. That might seem over powered but the least it could do is cover jumps better than not at all.
I love hammer...conceptually. Just make it actually a part of Kirby's kit that serves a purpose.
As someone who has played every version of Kirby since melee, You are right. Even his Down Special, what I usually consider to be a great move to use, was practically slaughtered. The time between landing and being able to exit is so long that your opponent can just garb you without risk. Also Up special. In Brawl I can easily get both the upswing and downswing to hit, in Ultimate I'm lucky if one of them hits.
The best use I've seen of the move is a ledgetrap/techchase move, and there's a few videos around on youtube playing around with that concept (I believe JuggleBoy and phan7om have made videos on it)
I agree, I loved Kirby’s hammer in Brawl
Yeah, and it would be more faithful to the main series. When Kirby uses the hammer ability in the air he does a spin attack thing like in Melee. His grounded one could still be the hammer flip. Heck, even the _Smash Bros. ability_ in the Kirby games does this already.
I LOVE BRAWL AERALE HAMMER.
The Hurricane spin for toon link makes even more sense if you consider that it was actually a thing in smash 4, it was a custom move
At this point i feel like a character like Ganondorf should more or less be "grandfathered". That is, kept relatively the same, but... Also gain a _whole second character,_ who is actually faithful. We have three Links in ultimate, i don't think it would be that ridiculous to have two Dorfs. Possibly playable _Ganon_ as well? The Trident has, potential.
Yeah i wouldnt want Ganondorf changed too much. I love him and what he became in Smash as a unique entity
But
Pig Ganon
Would be a way cooler fix for making a Ganon thatd be cool as heck
Black Shadow as a Falcon echo, which gives the franchise a long-overdue second rep while also paying homage to Smash Ganon's origin.
@@jordanthejq12 yeah exactly Ganondorf’s current moveset (minus sword) should be given to Black Shadow while the former should be reworked to better represent Ganon. It’s so weird this hasn’t happened already.
@@jordanthejq12 i dont think making That Playstyle into a different character does a good job in getting players who liked the playstyle to go over to said new character. The style is tied to the big man and the big man is unfortunetly kinda married to the style
Which is why itd be way more fun to give him a totally different form (Ganon) while still doing minor tweaks to Dorf if he goes on.
Which is tough but "give a new character the old characters moveset" hasnt really worked out too well historically.
Also Dorf aint no echo
Now if we are fixing broken characters, id you turned Daisy into a full on Captain Falcon echo......
Hand Slap should definitely stay because it's like the only move DK has had since 64 that's actually from the games.
Alongside the Dash Attack and the Forward Aerial,so that's like what 3 moves?
@@tiburondrogado7612 They were not there in 64. Fair was a weird leg attack, and dash was also a terrible leg poke.
I don't know if we can say Luigi is tied more to his series than Mario. That's three games vs hundreds
Little Mac ko punch is pretty important to his character. I rather see the moveset be changed while maintaining this move than getting rid of something key to his moveset in his games
KO punch is only really a thing in Super Punch Out, where in the other much more played Punch Out games (NES and Wii) he has the Star Punch, which works completely differently.
Unless E. Gadd is added in the next Smash, it certainly wouldn't hurt too much to give Luigi's moveset a little more Luigi's Mansion spice, since that's his own series.
Yeah, but Luigi is more often than not either a sidekick NPC or a playable character that is barely different from Mario functionally. Luigi's Mansion and the non-mainline Mario games are the few opportunities Luigi has to express himself to the fullest extent he can, and drawing more from those games will work to make him feel more like, well, Luigi.
@@Moss_Dude KO punch also works nothing like it does in Super Punch Out - while you do build meter by hitting your opponent, getting hit loses meter and you gain the ability to throw multiple super punches at your leisure as long as you don’t get hit (not to mention the rapid punch variant). It’s a win more/snowball move, not a comeback mechanic
I think The tornando is already An Very reminecing move for Luigi
On the link up b thing there is more to "save time" than just coding/animating the move. Planning and balance in some cases probably take up more time than just the time to put it in game.
I think side B would be a better choice to mix up the links with going them items from their games.
To redesign Ganondorfs Specials, Neutral Special could be launching a trail of three quick fire bats forwards. His Side Special could be swiping with his cloak to reflect projectiles. His Down Special could be swapping his weapon from dual swords to a spear. I think his normals could choose to use a dark trident and swap to dual swords, and back. His Up Special could still be a bad recovery, being a slow levitate gently upwards where he flies high up a short distance, completely vulnerable. All of these moves are canon, except for kind of the swap. I think he could have a gimmick where he becomes the pig beast for a short time when he reaches a high damage percent.
He needs dead man's volley
I don't disagree with anything you have said, but have you considered two ganondorfs? There are already 3 links and 2 Zeldas. Try ganondorf and dark beast Ganon as separate characters. Then the smash legacy moves could be split and they could both showcase cool Zelda stuff. I don't disagree with a beast Ganon form, that would be really cool, but I personally want 2 ganons
A good moveset for Ganondorf would be the Dead Man Volley as his Neutral B, the reflector slap from Ocarina of Time as his Down B, a teleport for his Up B (his entrance animation shows him coming from a vortex). He can keep Flame Choke since it's canon in Twilight Princess.
Also, Ganondorf should to levitate instead of running like an overweight old man.
Seconding keeping flame choke. It’s got a great feel to it and contributes to the play style.
@@thescarfguy except we already have Beast Ganon as a boss character.
You really could have just made this about special moves I guess besides Ridley. It does make sense though since specials are the most creative and defining move for each character.
Funny cuz I think Ridley's pogo tail move could easily replace or be incorperated into his down b.
That would be a neat idea for Ridley: loosing an aerial spike in exchange for more aerial combat capability. That said, his Up Special spike would still fill that previous role well.
One idea I have for Ridley overall is if you hold the jump button on the 3rd jump for 10 seconds he'll fly in the air and you can bombard opponents from the sky but will be cancelled out the moment you get hit.
Damn never thought about giving DK a barrel but it makes a lot of sense, and imagine the possibilities; DK poking an object at his will.
What I've thought tho is changing DK recovery to a barrel (like in his games), where pulling a barrel that blasts him away (inflicting damage during the blast and with DK body, and making his recovery a lot less linear and better at vertical distances)
I thought of a mechanic where DK could swap between Diddy, Dixie, and Cranky and they would change how his recovery and other moves worked, but I don't know if a lot of people would be a big fan of that.
@@totalradlad While that does seem like an interesting concept, I feel that DK being one of the base roster characters means he supposed to be more simple and easy to use. Many casuals complain that Pokemon Trainer is too difficult to use, so giving DK a similar moveset would probably create a massive decrease in casual usage.
@@jchannel1980 That makes sense, but I don't see any reason why any of the original 8 should be basic (outside of Mario and Kirby, of course). Donkey Kong being simple and easy to use also doesn't really fit the play style of any DKC game, either. These are really difficult games that require you to put in a lot of effort to persevere and learn how to make it through each of the levels, so having DK be more simple like Mario doesn't make a ton of sense.
@@totalradlad They could make them only come out for the certain moves that use them. Dixie for aerial up-B, Cranky for a new down-air (with pogo) and Diddy... somewhere? (Maybe longer dash attack or a new side-B?)
I had an Idea for Link’s Up B. It could be like Min Min
Min Min has 2 different Up Bs, one on the ground and one in the air and both of them are different moves. Why not do the same for Link?
On the ground, it could still be Spin attack, but in the air, it could be Revali’s Gail
It would be cool but Revali's gail can only be used grounded in BOTW. Hookshot as theather would be cool but your idea might be best in BOTW theme
@@otttimon5654 I mean, Spin Attack can’t be used in the air in the games. The devs had to find something for the time. But now there’s no excuses to not put Revali’s Gail there.
@@otttimon5654 Both Revali's Gale and Spin Attack can only be used grounded, but at least Revali's Gale is initiated with a jump, I think it's honestly a pretty solid solution in a world where the team has time to implement two entirely different moves for Link's up special.
Unpopular opinion: I think every like should have the spin attack, bow, boomerang and bombs. There all too important to the character and his playstyle to remove.
While Dark Pit’s staff is a weapon that is associated with Dark Pit himself (His name is literally in the Weapon’s name), the Silver Bow is also a weapon associated with him, possibly even more than the Staff. In his home series, he’s used the Silver Bow 3 times, The Boss Fight with him in Chapter 6, The Midboss Fight in Chapter 13, and when you team up with him in Chapter 21. He only used his Staff ONCE in his home game and it’s only in a random encounter with him in Chapter 6. If the Staff were to replace the Bow in the Neutral Special slot, I don’t see how it would functions differently from the Staff item. I can see it making sense but it’ll have to be a little more creative.
Also, I agree with the Sonic thing. My boy could’ve been done MUCH better.
I personally like how Dark Pit directly mirrors Pit (I would love his regular attacks to have slight differences though). He uses the Silver Bow because its a prototype Palutena Bow (Pit's signature weapon). The way it works in Smash is exactly how it works in Uprising (except the arrow is purple instead of green), the arrows don't curve as much as the Palutena Bow but still have some auto aim. Sure the Dark Pit staff would be cool but I prefer the Silver Bow as it is. :P
I think Kirby’s entire moveset should be turned to copy abilities, and I stand by that. I understand he’s supposed to be the beginner character, but Mario already does that and is amazing in tier lists. Also, I think G&W is the actual perfect beginner character. He’s a fundamental character, is a glass cannon so he forces the mentality of bait and punish (which is very important to teach beginners), his Neutral Special ledgetraps by itself by mashing B, his Up Special escapes shield pressure for free (unless they know how to punish which assuming the beginner is playing of roughly the same skill level they won’t know), recovers for free from anywhere, he has two jumps, can crouch under everything, no other movement options, has very basic yet amazing juggling, and the same applies to his edgeguarding. Also, Fair is super safe on shield and can teach basic shield pressure.
But that goes against the whole philosophy of the character- I and many other (including MockRock) played Kirby when we first played smash and making the pink puffball for beginners have a complicated moveset would not be a good idea imo
I would go a step further and say that you can make this character a good beginner character, all the while making it use weapons for its normal attacks
Take the Kirby idea and give it to TAC.
Ignoring the already stated, no, that should be Gooey. Kirby himself using different abilities for everything not only is unfaithful to the series, but also would just look and feel weird to play with. Gooey at least already works like that in star allies and him morphing into different shapes to use so many moves so drastically different from each other is much more feasible.
All I'd need changed for Kirby would be to make his forward air his Air Puff, and his down tilt his Slide. Maybe also make his Final Smash the Friend Circle from Star Allies so we can get cameos from the Helper characters.
I agree that Ganondorf needs a rework. I do love how he currently plays but I would love to see him with way more of his magic attacks or his trident. I would change Ganon but I would give most of his current smash moveset to Black Shadow, the main F-Zero antagonist, so we get the best of both with a new villain and rep from F-Zero.
Yeah we need more villains in Smash in general. And me personally I would remove all the filler characters in order to make room. In my mind the filler characters include ( rules, echo fighters can apply but isn't a necessity, too many balancing issues, or they have to feel forced into the roster. Now if you like these characters then great, I respect your opinion)
Dr Mario
Piranha Plant
Byleth ( obvious choice, almost nobody wanted Byleth in Smash anyway)
Richter Belmont ( turn him into a skin instead)
The 2 other Links ( instead just make all of them skins and bring back the option to customize characters)
Shiek ( reincorporate her into Zelda's moveset)
Zero Suit Samus ( incorporate her into Samus's moveset)
Ken ( skin for Ryu)
Wii Fit Trainer
The Mii's ( once again, bring back Custom Characters and it will feel like nothing changed)
Duck Hunt
Pyra and Mythra ( she just feels random in my opinion)
Little Mac ( unless his entire moveset is changed he's either stupidly overpowered, or weak as all hell)
Falco ( skin for Fox)
Hero ( he or she is too overpowered in this game)
Terry ( I felt like he was just a random pick)
Either Ness or Lucas ( not both though) ( just make Ness a skin for Lucas or Visa Versa)
Villager ( just play as Issable and nothing will change)
And almost all the Pokemon except Pikachu and Mewtwo are put into each skin for Pokemon Trainer ( including some new pokemon that aren't playable in Smash yet)
And now for the replacements ( there aren't as many replacements as there are removals mainly because I would add more gameplay options and game modes and not having as many characters would really help with the production rate. )
King Boo
Waluigi
Impa
Zant
Ghirahim
Raven Beak
M Bison
Medusa
Phosphora
Magnus
Black Shadow
Sigma
Dr Robotnik
Crash Bandicoot
Shante
@@chadpeterson5698 i don't think Ness is going anywhere, he's one of the original 12 characters, so there's no chance he'll get axed
Actually Ganondorf needs to be made from scratch.
They can keep the super strength/super slow thing, but all of his moves need to be changed. They don't represent his boss fights at all.
Create a new Ganon and just turn the current one in Black Shadow.
Here’s an idea: ike can keep eruption, but its moved to the down b slot. It would still let ike become the projectile swordfighter you want him to be with neutral b and or side b, but he can still have a powerful 2-frame option with eruption, plus it would address a complaint about too many characters having a counter.
Plus i think eruptions a cool and badass attack, even if its a smash original.
They should nerf Little Macs smash attacks, and add a star system that buffs them based on how many times he counters, or perfect shield an attack.
I love this idea, though I don't see the need to nerf his smash attacks in power. Just remove the super armor.
With the Star KO idea you offer, give him a proper recovery, and I think he'd be a solid character.
That said, considering the next iteration of Smash is very likely to cut a major section of the cast...I'm not keeping my hopes up for his return.
Just nerf the super armor to Heavy armor, which is just worse super armor
@@CaptainDCap I'd keep his Super Armor, but only in his F-Smash. Maybe balance it out by having more start-up lag. The way I see it is that you _should_ be wary of a straightforward strong punch from a boxer and not challenge it.
DK's down special is a clear reference to just his ground slam attack in every DKC game he's playable in.
For warlock punch I’d love to see what p+ ganon does. They change his neutral b but move warlock punch to a taunt. Keeps the disrespectful play ganon is known for while also gaining a neutral b (maybe peach float or a reflector)
Here's an interesting idea: Replace Kirby's Neutral Air with Hammer Spin. As in, the one in Melee, animation-wise. However, keep the properties of Kirby's current Neutral Air. It would be replacing a similar-looking move as well and give Kirby a bit more (really needed) range. Maybe tone down the power a bit in exchange for the added range but it's not like you can't keep the best of both worlds without suddenly making Kirby a broken top tier.
The weird thing is that Kirby seems open to have Copy Abilities in his normals where they'd make sense. His Dash Attack was a weird headbutt, then it got replaced by Burning, then by the Yo-yo breakdance kick thing, and then back to Burning. Heck, if you want, Sword also has a rolling air attack just like Hammer does so just play around with that if you want.
I’ve always felt that Kirby’s moveset could be so much more than just “Fighter Kirby and friends.”
No. I'm not usually one for sentimental attachment for old moves but Kirby's neutral air (Shining Star) is so iconic that it was part of the "Smash Bros." ability in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror as well as in Planet Robobot. I think side special should stay as Hammer Flip, but if used in the air it becomes the Hammer Spin like a better more game-accurate version of what it was in Melee.
Eruption does have a reference though, I'll elaborate at the bottom because it is a major spoiler for Radiant Dawn.
While I think this should be his final smash and would rather have Ragnell's shockwave attack as his neutral special instead, I wouldn't say it's enough to put it on this list since it does have a reference, and it's not niche because it also hits above Ike, makes it useful for edgeguarding even if the opponent doesn't grab the ledge. It's also useful for shield break punishes, which isn't that uncommon given how much shield damage moves like back air, side tilt and down smash deal.
(it's based on the final boss where Yune powers up Ragnell so that Ike can deal the final blow against Ashera)
It's a very lenient and loose interpretation of Eruption though. Besides the one 20 second cutscene of Ike raising his sword up instead of plunging it into the ground, there isn't that much theyakes it really relevant. Especially when Ragnell shockwaves were right there in both PoR and RD.
KO Punch could easily still exist if you made it like Kazuya's Rage and replace up-smash or F-smash and make it MUCH weaker.
And while on the topic, instead of rewarding him for taking damage, have the KO punch actually work like it does in punch-out and make it so if lands either and up b or up smash he gets a star and at 3 it becomes KO punch, that would make him more fun to play, more fun to fight and be more faithful to his home game
That isn’t the home game, the original game worked exactly like it does in game
0:25 "I'm talking about moves that will be replaced with something more canonically faithful..."
Haven't watched the video yet, can guarantee Ganondorf will be on here somewhere.
i feel a lot of wario's moves could be replaced. having a lot of his moves be wacker versions of mario's moves is a fun idea, but barely any of his moves borrow from his source games. like he could use his ground pound, his attacks and throws from wario world, his dash from wario land 4, the earthshake punch from shake it, any of his transformations from the wario land games, the list goes on. also i think his shoulder bash should be upgraded to his side special, it's way too iconic to just be a dash attack imo
The Duke Of Dorks and Design 4 talked quite a bit about Wario, and they did talk about a few of the other characters listed here too in Duke's older videos.
pm wario is amazing in this regard
The fact that Wario doesn’t have a throw reminiscent of Wario Land: Shake It! is borderline criminal
Shoulder bash would be a really boring special move. Being iconic doesn’t mean it’s not a normal attack
Haven't watched the video yet, but I do see Jigglypuff Rollout in the thumbnail and I'd like to say that I absolutely love using this move even though I probably shouldn't lol
Jigglypuff getting Play Rough where it's sort of like a worse version of Mach Tornado in terms of mobility but that deals more damage sounds like a fun idea
As someone who has played since the 64 days, I'd be cool if the next installment completely overhauled most if not all the characters. Sure keep the iconic moves like Falcon Punch in, but I honestly think most of the moves in game don't reach that level of beloved or in cases like Link's spin could be reworked into something new. If they cut the current roster in half or even further and built the remaining characters from the ground up I'd be all for it.
Doesn't Cloud kinda count as a heavy projectile sword fighter? I guess he doesn't fit perfectly. Great vid!
I think Ganondorf's up tilt could be removed. Give him his old up smash from 4, make it faster and weaker, and possibly even confirm into up air.
Honestly, it would work just as well if it was identical to uncharged s4 upsmash. That move was busted
Imagine an up tilt that combines the power/frame data of Smash 4 up smash and the animation/range of Volcano Kick, Ganondorf could spawn lava pillars of death going OOYEAH-OOYEAH-OOYEAH all the livelong day
If they're to maintain Ganondorf's current approach but get rid of Volcano Kick, his old USmash is a good starting point, but I think it would be better if it killed off the top instead of leading into combos. Make it faster but weaker than his current USmash, and you have an actually good UTilt on Ganondorf.
@@TheTrueBrawler If they're to maintain Ganondorf's current approach but get rid of Volcano Kick, his old USmash is a good starting point, but I think it would be better if it killed off the top instead of leading into combos. Make it faster but weaker than his current USmash, and you have an -actually good- UTilt on Ganondorf.
MockRock, I think you ommitted that moving Link's Up B to his Down Smash would significantly if not completely kill the out of shield potential of the move and possibly make it functionally useless.
I’d like to see Luigi with his lighting ability in superstar saga
The KO Punch doesn’t even really come from a Mac game, it’s the _Star_ Punches earned from dodging and comboing that he’s known for, so something like accumulating three Star Punches based on hits landed or combos with a similar move tracking to the stale move queue might work, rewarding you for a defensive bait and punish style without being completely overwhelming, could give him an interesting resource management game plan as well
As for Ganon, just make his jab the cape flip so he can reflect projectiles and he’s a 200% better character
Its appears on more games that star Punch,what ARE you even saying???
Luigi:
I do wish Luigi used his Poltergust for his down special, where it worked similar to Kirby's Inhale, but Luigi can move forward or backward, like a reverse Gustbellows. For a side special, I'd have a random Luigi's Mansion ghost pop out of the vacuum and drag Luigi along. Would work functionally similar to Green Missile.
Ridley:
For tail pogo, you could simply have Ridley do that for his down special in the air. For extra utility, if the tail hits the stage, it immediately pulls Ridley down to the ground to attack.
Ganondorf:
I'd give him Dead Man's Volley as a Neutral Special projectile, but also make his forward tilt and forward aerial cape swipes that reflect projectiles, so Ganondorf players can play tennis with other projectiles as well as Dead Man's Volley.
Links:
Yeah, I agree that Spin Attack fits better as a down smash. I can get making it the Up Special in the earlier games, since OoT Link's only other options were the Hookshot, which makes sense as a tether grab, and the Hover Boots, which is just a boring floaty jump.
Yoshi:
I'd combine the Egg Lay and the Egg Throw into a single move, tapping special for Lay, holding for Throw. Egg Laying opponents/projectiles/items would give Yoshi up to a max of 3-4 eggs that would follow behind him like Pikmin. For a fun addition, if Yoshi swallows fiery projectiles, he immediately spits them out as the fireballs from Super Mario World. For a new up special, I'd give him the wings he used in his Super Dragon Final Smash.
Ike:
I do like the idea of giving Ike a sword beam, but not as a Neutral Special. Cloud already has that covered with Blade Beam, and it'd feel redundant for two of Kirby's copy specials to both be sword beams. I'd either change Ike's up special to its Aether Wave variant from Smash 4, or have his fully-charged forward smash generate a sword beam, similar to Link's forward smash at full health. With how meaty Ike is as a fighter, it'd be nice to give let him use his dad's axe Urvan for some attacks. Say that instead of a Counter for a down special, he puts the smack down with Urvan similar to Byleth's down special, with the added effect that it meteor smashes as reference to how attacking from a ledge in Radiant Dawn boosts attack and accuracy. Could even give Ike an up tilt where he heaves up a Hand Axe; think Joker's up tilt but meatier.
Making one of Ganon’s aerials his Cape Swipe was an idea I’ve had for him for quite a while.
Maybe it could be a neutral air to replace the kicks he does currently and being the only one of its kind to reflect.
@@ABAgamer_ I think more of the villains should have ways to deal with projectiles as a way to show off their power. Bowser has Tough Guy to plow through weaker attacks, K. Rool has Gut Check as a counter / reflect. If Ganondorf isn't getting a projectile, I think giving him at least one reflector would do a good enough job of showing off his power and referencing the tennis gameplay of Dead Man's Volley.
As a Sonic main, I would kind of agree that Sonic could do with a rework. Though also I will say that having two moves that are so very similar creates confusion for the opponent with how they should react. So I do like having spin dash, as well as spin charge in Sonic’s kit.
I love the Telius duoligy and how the heck did I never once question why Eruption exists instead of Ragnell's shockwaves? That's a really good idea.
One of the worst decisions that the developers have made is made Ganon an awful, much slower version of captain falcon. Most if not all of his move set, has any hint of a reference to the zelda series.
At the time of Melee it was probably that or nothing. Hard to see what repercutions it would have in the future.
@@fernandobanda5734 yeah I really don’t understand why they went that route for the next 3 games. He’s a very well known character to Nintendo fans and they chose to make him not only a terrible character but not accurate to any embodiment of his home series.
bring back Pac-Man's old up-tilt, it was so much better and it could actually hit grounded opponents without getting right up in their hurtbox
9:04 There was actually a small reference in smash 64 where dk was the only character to be able to move when carrying a barrel or a crate, all other characters could not move at all and could only change direction
I swear that egg roll is the easiest move to misinput by accident in all of Smash, as well as one of the worst ones to misinput
I think these are mostly the moves I'd have gone with, but outside of that:
Peach's (and I guess Daisy's) Toad. Counters are kind of meh anyway but feel particularly out of place with a character like Peach, not really a "thinking one step ahead of you" kind of character. And of course, if you remove Toad from the moveset you open up the possibility for Toad to be his own character, which let's face it, he deserves.
Zelda's lightning kicks. Maybe a controversial one but they seem a weird design choice for a character like her. Captain Falcon kneeing you into next Tuesday fits with his muscular, hyper-aggressive (but vaguely self-aware about it) personality, but why does a wise princess have similar (if rather less iconic) attacks? Just make them normal rather than having a ridiculous sweetspot that's so weird to have on a zoner.
Well for Zelda, the lighting kicks have very finicky hitboxes and inconsistent setups, so actually landing them requires precision and foresight (since they are also very punishable). They fit the wise part of the triforce Zelda seems to try to represent in her smash iteration seeing how much work you gotta put into landing those sweetspots.
As for toad, it's a really good fit for peach in the sense that 1. she's a pacifist, so only attacking you when you attack her is in-character and 2. toads have been guarding peach for so long seeing one come out and actually do the job after being a meat shield for so long. The move doesn't actually fit daisy, but neither does half of peach's moveset to begin with so complaining about that is like yelling at the void. I wouldn't be upset if they changed it, and if it was to add toad I'd be cool with it, but I'm personally rooting for my boy captain toad for how much unique stuff he'd bring up to the table compared to regular toad.
I like Zelda's lightning kicks. They compliment her trapper playstyle. It's like solving a puzzle in Zelda games. You can struggle with that puzzle for a long, long time, but once you finally solve it it's very satisfying. Just like how Zelda can struggle a lot in disadvantage when she doesn't have a phantom up, so she needs to have a very powerful and satisfying advantage state to make up for it. Once you finally figure out your opponent and cover all their options perfectly, you've gotta have some amount of punch as a reward, which lightning kicks as strong, fast options work perfectly for. Also, I think giving her "normal" attacks would actually be much less fitting on her than the sweetspots. Sweetspots like this, while not difficult, still reward the knowledge and precision to land it. as opposed to a regular attack which you just sort of swing and it works (which I don't think is very fitting of a graceful princess with the triforce of wisdom). Also they just look cool.
Out of the three Link spin attacks you talked about, I feel like it'd make the most sense to take Toon Link's, make it more like the hurricane spin from Wind Waker, and move it to his side-b as a chargeable burst movement option kinda like Ike's quick draw; it'd really help differentiate Toon Link from the others to swap out one of his three projectiles for something more aggressive.
And for the new up-b, I haven't played much Wind Waker myself, but the deku leaf seems like it'd be a good replacement up-b that references back to his source material more strongly. I feel like that'd also be a nice compromise for people who wanted to see a Revali's Gale/Paraglider up-b on BotW Link, since imo, a less offensive recovery move like that just feels more at home on Toon Link than BotW Link.
Lol, my first thought with the deku leaf was a non-damaging wind gust. Not sure about an up b with it. Could see the end of it work similar to Peach’s parasol.
The problem is that the Deku Leaf would be a straight up nerf since it'd be really easy to edgeguard.
6:15 I find it even funnier that they basically added this as a custom move in smash 4. And I found it really fun to use too.
Egg Roll is trash. For me Luigi down-B is fine, I'd toss out side-B. Also K.O punch should work more like how it does in Punch-Out, or be replaced by the Star Uppercut. Sing should be Puff neutral-B with a fairy type move being given as up-B. DK should have a barrel for either up-B or side-B. He could fire himself out of a blast barrel or pull out a barrel that he can cargo hold, then throw it with an attack button. Sonic needs only on spin move there are plenty of games and moves to pull for him. Lastly Ganondorf needs to be completely reworked in my opinion.
Yeah almost everyone agrees that Ganondorf not getting reworked is a sin. It's almost like Sakurai has a personal bias against Ganondorf oh wait he probably does.
The way I see it, the only justifiable way to replace K.O. Punch entirely is to use a Star Punch system, which I can see three ways Nintendo could do.
Option 1 is the least likely one by far due to the effort required, but the most accurate to the source material, getting stars by punishing specific character moves at a specific point in the animation. Coding Star punch windows for every character in the game would be a pretty unenviable task though, not to mention that this probably simply wouldn’t work that well in practice
Option 2 would be a more generalized version similar to that, stars get awarded for hitting on something like endlag for a whiffed move or a defensive option, or landing a counter, which I initially thought could make it too easy to get stars but I’m not sure about that.
Option 3 is to give Mac some built-in combos that award a star when he lands them
Regardless of which method is used, stars would go towards powering up the Star punch, with a punch powered by 3 stars being really strong, still not KO Punch strong, but at least a Hero crit. 1-2 Star punches are still respectable, but aren’t nearly as strong. Stars get removed if enough damage is applied. The idea should be that he still has an explosive option, but it should be hard to get to it. I’m sure this idea is probably awful, but thinking about it was still fun. And thankfully, I’m not the guy who’s job it is to come up with this anyway.
Spin Charge should definitley be the Sonic Special move that's cut.
Like, the way to do a Spin Dash in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is literally the same as in Smash. It's also objectively the worse of the 2 strength wise meaning far less annoying. Side Special should just be a low damage boost attack.
I also think Sonic's Forward Air should change to a spike-like you know Sonic is Smash is pretty much based on Sonic the Fighters instead of Sonic Battle, base the moveset on that.
The fact that Sonic is not only the only 3rd party to ever be in Smash for 3 consecutive titles and in each game his moveset did change in every new installment yet his specials still remain the same. At this point it's what the design team wanted for him.
It's funny how cloud, who's smash iteration is based on ike, is more like how ike should be in smash. Ike has a three hit attack when he criticals while cloud hit once or twice if double cut materia is equipped but cloud gets the 3 hit f smash. Ike using an energy blast from his sword is an integral part of his design while cloud can only use blade beam with limit with blade beam set but cloud gets the sword projectile.
To be fair to dark pit’s use of the bow, it’s the weapon he uses the most in uprising
I’d rather see his side or down special changed to a weapon that he actually uses in ki:u, probably fitting the ogre club or violet palm in somewhere as a slow lingering projectile
Can not disagree more with Headbutt, big armored moves are always fun.
Its a fun but also very weird feeling move, not that accurate to home series either
Fun fact, giant punch also gets armor
And he’s got two others, so I think he can do without the headbutt
I also like it and even find it useful. He does have a lot of overlap in his specials though, so I'd be interested to see a barrel toss replace his neutral b if anything. I find it kinda vestigial and feel his smashes are just as good if not better than Giant Punch.
@@SolracDude up b as well
I hate that rollout kills you if you hit someone OFF STAGE, AS JIGGLYPUFF. The off stage character
Bro Jigglypuff with a Play Rough down special and you could make it an aerial command grab sounds kinda sick.
Imma be honest, there was a lot of them that were controversial until you explained them, this is a well-thought out video and I respect your opinions
9:07 As a Sonic main, I'd say that Sonic's Side B should be the one swapped. It should be replaced with boost. Boost would have the same front invincibility as Banjo's Wonder-wing. It would do less damage per hit (& have a smaller hitbox), & be vulnerable from behind.
While each stock would start with Max Boost, Sonic's boost meter would recharge whenever Sonic uses one of his other attacks or gets damaged encouraging a more aggro playstyle. Also, Sonic would be able to turn during boost as well. Max Boost should be just enough for Sonic to go from one side of Final Destination all the way to the other side & back.
Boost would only be active for as long as the B-button is held, & Sonic can't use other moves while boosting. Using Sonic's boost when the boost meter is empty would just result in him moving forward slightly, similar to an air dodge. I'm well aware of the fact that max boost would give Sonic a broken recovery due to it being used in mid-air though. Using Sonic's Down-B in mid-air should make him do the drop dash from Mania to compensate for how broken max boost would be as a horizontal recovery option.
Light Speed Dash, or even Sonic Wind would be easier to do, I think
Slap spin dash and spin charge into the same move
You hold sideB = spin dash
You smash sideB = spin charge
Both moves get to stay and keep their niches, while allowing a new actually unique down special
For ganondorf's B, make it a chargeable ball like samus; however, shoot it slowly and homing towards the enemy and then have them be able to hit it back to ganondorf (like the end boss fights) and speed it up each hit.
Ok, the ONLY way I would ever be happy with KO punch gone would be if they replaced it with star punches instead. If they worked like how they do in the NES version that could be nice, gaining multiple weaker uppercuts to whip out for finishers instead of one huge one you revolve around.
On the other side of things, personally I think the way little mac is in smash is actually a perfect representation for how he is in Punch Out for one reason nobody seems to understand: he's terrible in smash, BECAUSE he's terrible in Punch Out. In each and every match he's at a massive disadvantage against other normal humans, why would he fare any better against magic and heroes from fantastical worlds? In smash, just like in punch out, the only real way to win don't get hit, and when you get the chance hit them as hard as you can.
You're right, except for the fact than when you play Mac perfectly in Punch Out, your opponent doesn't just run away like a little bitch.
Implement the Star KO system: Whenever Mac lands Slip Counter, or Parries a move, he gets a star.
Stars power up his Smash attacks and Specials with extra knock-back, consuming them on a hit.
Have 3 stars? You get your KO punch back and it should just bloody kill at 0%. Because, you know...he can do that on several enemies in his home franchise.
Landing on the ground out of tumble without teching should cost you a star, to replicate the same mechanic from Punch Out punishing you for getting knocked down.
@@CaptainDCap The way you get stars might need a bit more thought but yeah everything else sounds pretty solid.
I think Roy/Chrom's Side B should be 3 hits instead of 4, to differentiate it from Marth/Lucina's a little more, since they're basically the same move on 4 characters.
I would also make all 4 of their counters have armor (with a threshold) so they're forced to take damage during their counter. But they can press Down B right after a successful parry and get their old counterattack with the full intangibility and all.
It's not full new moves, but it makes their Side B's more unique and makes their counters a little more risky and actually make sense, without alienating old players, which is one of the reasons Sakurai doesn't want to change old characters that much
Bit of a tangent, but I feel like a lot of old characters don't get reworks because Sakurai & Team are in the "Players would be upset" mindset, but they gave themselves the perfect out in Ultimate.
Echo Fighters.
I understand that the game was on a big time crunch, but for next game I would love it if we necessarily didn't get many newcomers, instead re-worked old fighters & just inserted Echo Fighters to take the places of old movesets.
Dr. Mario can just be buffed to Normal Mario's current moveset, Gannondorf's playstyle is now That Bad Guy from F-Zero, DK is now Funky, etc...
Mockrock: There aren't any Heavyweight projectile swordfighters!
King Dedede: Am I a joke to you?
Even if I don’t agree with all of them, I love how your top ten/tier list videos are always geared towards creating discussion and discourse in order to move the game and the meta forward.
I'd say make Botw Link's grounded up b the spin and make aireal up b Revali's Gale.
That's a pretty reasonable solution considering how the Spin Attack actually works in the Zelda games!
5:54 an idea that I had is keep his grounded up B the spin attack, but when you charge it a bit, you use Urbosa's fury and summon lightning. And the aerial up B should be Revali's Gale
For sonic he should keep his down b but replace his side b
First, down b was always the input to do sonic's spindash in his old games so keeping it like this would be a great nod to it
Second, spin charge needs to be mashed multiple times for it to be effective like in the games and it would help the camping issue by not having a literal 5 frame escape option across the stage
To somewhat expand on the Rollout thing (because yes, Jigglypuff should have a different move than Rollout), I think we could use that opening to move Sing into the "neutral special" slot.
Up specials near-universally have some sort of utility in recovering, and even in the gigantic roster of Ultimate, Sing is the only exception to that rule. It's pointlessly confusing in that slot, and has always led to absentminded SDs that shouldn't have happened. Besides, with Sing arguably being the most "Jigglypuff" move Jigglypuff could have, it would just make so much more sense for Sing to be its neutral special.
As for a replacement up special... that's actually kinda tricky. I could easily see Fairy Wind being designed as a slight recovery aid (let's be real, Puff doesn't need much help there) while also giving some Fairy-type representation and tying into Puff's showy personality. The only problem is, Puff doesn't actually learn Fairy Wind. But then, Pichu doesn't learn Agility or Skull Bash either, so why not, right?
Ooooh I was the first like! I feel so special :D
Edit: now that I've finished watching the video I have to say I actually think I agree with every choice on this list. I definitely don't play the majority of these characters, but MAN WHAT I WOULDN'T DO FOR A GANONDORF REDESIGN. I was surprised to find I actually agree with the Link Spin Attack choice, though. He's been my main since Smash 64's release and losing that on the Main Link would feel a bit weird, but as you said Young Link is the Legacy Link and I think he fits that role well. And now the word "link" has lost all meaning for the moment lol
For sonic side special could so easily be boost to represent the modern sonic Era and keep down special spindash to rep the classic era
DK's former Final Smash (Konga Beat) uses what are clearly barrel-themed bongos, so does that count as barrels in his moveset?
Ganondorf needs a projectile. Give him a projectile and he'll be a mid tier
Here’s some moves I’d put on my list:
Wario Corkscrew: I like a lot of Wario’s moveset, but his Up-B has always been weird to me. There’s no reference to anything (believe me, I checked), and I don’t think it makes a lot of sense visually for him to propel himself upwards that way. Whenever Smash 6 rolls around, I hope they change his Up-B to the jetpack from Get it Together.
Samus Up-Air: Upwards drills have always looked weird to me, and I think this is the worst looking one of the bunch. I don’t know what I’d change it to, but there have got to be a lot of better options than this.
Mario’s Up-Smash: I’ve always hated how this move looks. If it were up to me, I would change his Up-B and make his Up-Smash the Super Jump Punch. As for what his new Up-B could be…I dunno, maybe the Wing Cap from SM64 or a downward blast from FLUDD that sends him upwards?
Donkey Kong Up-B: The fact that this is not the Cannon Barrel is a travesty.
For Jigglypuff out of all of the fairy type moves I'd say disarming voice both giving her a projectile to help an already low tier character that needs help and a move that just fits jigglypuffs music/singing thing (be honest I don't really know much and I never really watched the anime or played many of the Pokemon games)
ngl i do not think ike needs a projectile ontop of the rest of his kit and i think its smart they went for a more coherent design rather than canonical accuracy on this one
I feel like the FLUDD really goes against Mario's role as a beginner-friendly character. It's a very technical move that is worthless without a high level of edge-guarding knowledge. While that's good for competitive Mario players, newcomers that the character is really meant to appeal to are left with a liability. I feel like Sunshine Mario could be spun off into his own echo fighter with an even greater emphasis on FLUDD and suit high-level players while standard Mario should get a different down-special with more generic applications.
I disagree. Mario is beginner friendly but there's some depth in his combo game and gameplan. That seemingly useless move is one of the first iterations of a "Charge move, then use later" instances and certainly helps ease in such mechanics. I've also seen friends that in free for alls wont do anything but Fludd people into each other once they learn how the move functions... which isnt particularly hard
I don't know why people say Mario is beginner friendly. As a beginner player, Mario fuckin sucked. His movement in general felt incredibly awkward and unlike every other character in the game.
The framedata on his moveset is a hell of a lot better than nearly every single other character on the entire roster, which ends up doing nothing but teaching players to be quick and discourages them from trying out slower characters that have other benefits to them other than speed.
Mario's moveset as a whole is generally unlike most characters in the game which would not properly set up the player to learning the feel of the game and other characters would feel unnatural to them.
Mario as a whole is an awkward, polarizingly different character compared to more than half of Ultimate's roster. He is not a good beginner character.
Kirby is intended to be the beginner character.
@@Athorment if they replacsd FLUDD with Cappy then Mario would still be beginner friendly with a far more complex & deep learning curve
@@ZoofyZoof who do you main?
@@Athorment Hard to say. I enjoy a handful of characters in the game, so I don't really "main" a particular one.
These are all of the characters I have fun playing:
Piranha Plant
Terry
Hero
King K Rool
Cloud
Ryu
Chrom
And very rarely I might play Bowser or Simon/Richter.
I haven't watched the video yet but I had a few ideas for this list
-Every one of Sonic's ball moves
-Yoshi Side-B (this move will never not be bad)
-Lucario D-Air (how does this one even work)
-Bowser Side-B (I expect this one to be a bit controversial, but make this into one of his throws instead)
-Min Min Dragon arm (how many times has this been nerfed?)
-Diddy's Banana (broken in every game it's been in)
So Min Min's Dragon Arm and Diddy's Banana are moves you want gone because they're superior from a balance perspective? Sorry to break it to you, but that's not a good reason to remove a move. That would be like saying we should remove Simon's FTilt, Ganondorf's USmash, Palutena's NAir, or Shulk's Monado Arts because they're among the best of their respective move types.
@@TheTrueBrawler Diddy’s Banana I actually wanna get rid of for a different reason too. In Brawl, Diddy was originally going to be paired up with Dixie Kong as a tag team character kind of like Sheik and Zelda. The problem is, switching is typically done with the Down-B, which as we know is the move that Banana is. So instead of an entire other character, we ended up with an extremely annoying projectile item thingy.
As for Min Min and the others, I can see where you’re coming from, and I do agree with you. However, Smash has given newer, worse moves to characters for balance reasons before. That doesn’t mean it’s the right way to go about it, but it still happens.
I feel like rollout should have a reverse staleing mechanic where it gets stronger so it functions like it does in pokemon.
I love what fans did with Little Mac in an Ultimate mod I played which is remove all the superarmor gimmicks and make his aerials better but all lead to his grounded game, so he still feels like a boxer character. It's pretty cool and it makes him feel like a Captain Falcon focused on his grounded game.
No mention of Diddy's bananas? It's obvious he only ever got the move because they couldn't get Dixie working, it's literally just him using the exact Banana Peel item already in the game without anything unique about it, the fact that they automatically trip you if one gets thrown at you is stupid and makes no sense, and Diddy Kong isn't the type of guy who'd really be using something as crafty as forcing a trip in a fight, despite his status as a monkey.
He has had a banana as a ability in a lot of the spin offs.
As a puff main, hard disagree on removing Jigglypuff's rollout. I don't get the argument at all that it's boring when it's clearly her most interesting move, besides maybe rest. It's fun to use and very strategic as to when to let it fly. It's very easily punishable if misused. It serves as a fun ground move for a character who's moveset is so floaty. Not to mention it's just iconic at this point.
People don't realize this, but rollout really isn't as bad of a move as it used to be in previous games. Hell, I'd say it's even better than sing now.
I didn't know I needed Ike with a projectile until now, FE characters need some extra spice to their design wherever they can get it
I saw the title to this video and immediately said to myself "Warlock Punch is gonna be on here"
I agree, Ganondorf needs his entire moveset changed. I feel he'd be so cool to play if he were actually faithful to his abilities in the Zelda games.
I've been wanting DK's side-b to be a barrel since the dawn of time.
I’d say, give us Black Shadow from the F-Zero series, and he could have Ganondorf’s current Smash move set, and then Ganondorf can have a unique move set being much more faithful to The Legend of Zelda
I think some characters just need an entire over haul. Ganon is such an easy fix, give all his moveset and general balancing to the baddy from F-zero and then make Ganon an actual character, it's actually that easy. Ganons play style and design isn't lost and there's finally some respect for one of the most if not the most iconic Nintendo boss.
Giving Jigglypuff some more voice based moves such as Disarming Voice and a reworked Hyper Voice (Reworked because it was a custom move in Smash 4) would be very in character for her, and would give her some disjointed options where she desperately needs range
THANK YOU! God I have been advocating for Ike to have his projectile for so long now. Thank you for including it in this list! Eruption is funny and all, but his projectile would be a nice nod to one of my favorite Fire Emblem titles.
Here's some thoughts
And by some I mean, too many that drive me insane every time I think about them.
Instead of the weird Finger jab Luigi has as his F-Smash, give him the Hammer from the M&L games. Like that would literally be perfect! And while you're at it, make his neutral special electric or ice to help him be less of a Mario Clone. Both would make perfect sense.
For Kirby I have a ton of ideas but I'm only gonna change 6 moves.
-Change his up B to High Jump because not only is final cutter a mediocre recovery but the inspiration is bad. It's supposed to be based on the Cutter ability but uses a sword instead of the cutter blade and doesn't do the combo slash that the move is supposed to have.
-His down air could be changed to the Parasol Dive which would not only be a nice reference but keep the fun drill of his old down air and give him a drag down which he can recover from.
-I think his Forward tilt should be changed to his Beam ability. I'm really upset that they just had most of Kirbys attacks just kicks when he has so much to work with. Plus he lacks range and this would be a great move for him.
-Down Smash could be changed to Kirby’s Freeze/Ice ability where he creates a big field of ice around him. We have a surprisingly low amount of Ice moves in Smash and most of them are on just one character (Ice Climbers). Ice is one of the most long running abilities in Kirby and the less Feet Attacks we have on Kirby the better.
-Then let's change his up Smash to Hammer Flip. It'd work like Corrin's F-Smash where as the charge up would have a multi hit damage hitbox for the fire part that would then combo into the strong hit when released not only making it a BRUTAL kill option but a more solid reference to the original version of the move from the home series.
-Of course this means we have to change the side b and what I'm thinking is Cutter. Itd work similar to Links side b However it can be charged up to make it MUCH stronger and go through multiple opponents. Honestly I can come up with even more for Kirby but I'll just leave it there for now.
Oh and something off the top of my head, Instead of a million kicks for tilts and aerials, give Lucario that Lightsaber Bone thing he has in Pokken Tournament as well as the anime
If ganon got all new moves besides down air, up smash, side smash, and side b, that would be the best of both worlds for everybody
I had this idea once for a replacement down special for Luigi. In Luigi's Mansion, you can trigger a bright flash with the Poltergust that stuns ghosts and allows you to prime a grab on them and defeat them. In Smash, this move could be used to apply the paralyzer stun effect on a character that is using intangibility in any way (not applied to invincibility). It would be harmless if used on a normal, fully exposed hurtbox, and would deal no shield damage or stun
Could also make this move function identically to Mewtwo's Disable.
@@CaptainDCap i considered that. However, Disable only stuns grounded opponents, so I wanted something that works in the air as well, such as the paralyzer effect
@@perriwinkleiii5361 Since shield break effects work in the air (K. Rool's belly armor being broken sends him into a shield break state, just tumbling to the floor if he's in the air), I don't see the problem.
Just make sure he also cannot stun anyone that isn't facing him, since it's a flash of light.
@@CaptainDCap a few things about that. First, what I mean by Mewtwo's stun effect, which is shared with shield breaks and the Deku Nut item, is that there is no animation for being stunned by moves like this in the air; it would have to be a brand-new animation, which I'm not opposed to, actually. Second, the fact that K Rool's armour break is possible in the air is not relevant, because every character that suffers a shield break on the ground is popped up into the air in an invincible tumble until they hit the ground again and assume the stun animation. So, to give this Poltergeist move aerial stun capabilities, it would either have to have a unique animation, or use something like the paralyzer or Focus stun effects. However, the idea of only triggering on opponents that are facing him is genius, and I like that
@@CaptainDCap actually, now that I think about it, the Fatal Frame Assist Trophy has a unique stun animation that would fit the bill almost perfectly; that would be cool to use for this
As a suggestion you could start a new series reworking many of the veterans moveset to be more canonical to their franchise. A lot of the characters pre Brawl haven’t aged well in that department.
I've had a fair amount of people suggest something like this, the issue is that several other channels have already covered that format pretty effectively
Ganondorf just makes me sad.
I'd pay 5.99 for Dlc Ganondorf
I think maybe they should have the K.O. meter be used for something alone the lines of how it was used in the Punch Out series
Maybe like a buff, or it opening new opportunities for him or something like that
Maybe it works if he connects enough moves, and being hit could take some of it away like in Punch Out
Of course to balance this, make his normal kit slightly sub-par while he doesn’t have K.O. but this could be a much better Little Mac design
As a Yoshi main, I do think an actually good version egg roll would be more fun than other burst options because of its mix up potential. However, I think ideally Yoshi should just have its specials switched around. Let Ground Pound always have its rising part and become the up special, egg throw as neutral, lick as side, and then something cool from Wholly or Crafted world as the new down special.