Covert Narcissists: The Ultimate Gaslighters
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2021
- Unlike their grandiose counterparts, covert narcissists are more subdued and subtle in their self-absorbed control. Dr. Les Carter explains that their covert, subtle manner is the perfect cover for gaslighting. He gives multiple illustrations about how they operate in ways to undermine your good plans. But if you are onto their schemes, you can stay out of their games successfully.
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They keep everything off balance! Remember when you go no contact that you will miss them at first but remember you’re missing who you wish they were!
So true!
Facts!!!
Oh , I find this so well formulated, u miss who u wish they were, are, will be, ...but they're not that one.
agree, you mourn the person they could have been/ or you thought they would be. Its hard to let go of this image.
You said it. I wish it were.
Not only does the covert narcissist diminish your strengths and successes, they also exaggerate your weaknesses and failures.
Three years ago I worked for a covert narcissist, it was one of the worst experiences of my life. Conversing with him was nearly impossible because he spent most of the time yelling, accusing, blaming. He is an unrepentant liar, and I believed only about a third of what he said. During this time, my physical, mental and emotional health decreased drastically to the point where I felt like a zombie who simply existed. Eventually, in order to salvage my career as he constantly bad mouthed me to anyone who would listen, I had to have a discussion with leadership in order to layout the problem and request a new supervisor.
Narcissists create a lot of damage, turmoil and attempts to wreck relationships but never have to clean up the messes they make. You'll be left picking up the pieces of your life to reassemble while the narcissist moves on with their life with impunity.
So true! Mine constantly wanted to go over my past traumas to help me "work through it." I thought I was fine and past it, so this was confusing. Looking back, I now realize they were trying to retrigger me so I would react and be weak/need their sympathy.
@@melissab3217 This. The only time they wanted to know about me was to “fix” me and ultimately to use it against me. Because they knew more and had more knowledge. I began to see through it, but I still slipped on my responses at times. Continuing my healing journey I’m determined to never duped again.
I dont know if anyone gives a shit but in less than 15 minutes I hacked my girlfriends Instagram password using Instaplekt. You can find it by Googling :)
Good point. 👍
When a parent has done this to you all your life, it fucks you up massively.
Yes it does. I was 40 before I even realized that my covert mother had been sabotaging me my whole life.
Usually comes under being a family scapegoat.
It really is the ultimate betrayal.
@@echase416 , Amen
Deàr AmethystDreaming
Sometimes children can do this to manipulate parents too
Sometimes you have to unfriend people in real life.
I did that with countless people in my life, some of them decades-long friends whose covert abuse I put up with far too long. Do I miss them? Not a single one of them.
@@wallymarcel1 I’m no longer friends with my best friend from kindergarten either and a couple of longtime friends. It was a rude awakening to me when I actually try to talk with my friends about our friendship and growth. When they realized the dynamic between us was changing because I was changing and growing and wanted something healthier, they got mad. Not everybody wants to change and grow. As soon as I took my eye off the unhealthy people in my life and focused on the others who were right there all along, those friendships began to bloom in positive ways I could not have imagined. We had many good times together but at some point enough is enough.
@@wallymarcel1 me too
True. But the problems begin when some of them don’t like being unfriended. Be careful how you do it.
@@wallymarcel1 That is wonderful. Congratulations on finally saying NO with action.
There is always an air of contempt from the narcissist as they look down their nose at you.
David Giragosian OMG soooo true. Living under that contempt and disdain long term is soul crushing. I neary went right under.
So true! My mother fits this category...she looks me up and down and makes snarky, rude comments.
Truer words have not been spoken!
Yeah, and in my experience it can be subtle, but not subtle enough to not really notice.
They say they love you but then act like they have contempt for you!
Oh yes!!!! They have NO gratitude...and they EXPECT you do continue to be nice to them! They are monsters, and the Board of Education should offer courses in how to recognize gaslighting in grade school!
Oh how I wish this was taught in schools in my young days - it would of save me from a lot of headaches 😰
Oh my, I would say, you do less than nothing but expect the World! It was sickening. So glad I discarded last year....finally.💐💐
my ex wife...literally...
@MUSTBE1776 i’m the daughter of a narcissist and can absolutely relate. my dad is a covert narcissist who constantly inserts himself into situations where i and my family are trying to keep him out. he complains about things that HE causes with his behavior. i’m glad you’re out of that situation and i hope you and your kids are okay.
Are you kidding?! Teaching positions are a narc's playground: ultimate authority, grandstanding oportunities, and total control over their captive audience! All backed by one of the most powerful unions in the world.
It’s such a confusing relationship to be in! You never really know where you stand with them. They are always searching for the “next best thing” instead of appreciating what they have in front of them. You’ll forever question your significance in their life! It’s a NEVER ending up hill battle until you decide, enough is enough!
Danielle- yes right & total confusion. That’s the devil for you & he loves it that way. He is the author of confusion- For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. - James 3:16. It is earthly, sensual, devilish. vs 15 tells us. The devil comes only to steal, kill, and destroy. He uses his demons in people to do this. The Bible calls these people mischievous, deceitful workers. -He that hates disguises it with his lips, and lays up deceit within him: When he speaks kindly, believe him not: For there are seven abominations in their heart, whose hatred is covered by deceit. - Proverbs 26:24-26 & vs. 28, A lying tongue hates those who are crushed by it, And a flattering mouth (the world calls it love bombing) world ruin. Wrath is cruel, and anger is outrageous, but who is able to stand before envy? - Proverbs 27:4. Jesus Christ dealt with the Pharisees who were deceitful workers and full of envy they tried to kill Jesus many times. They plotted with Judas to betray the Lord. He died for us all thru their evil plot. He knows all about this and can help us thru it & heal our wounds. He is the wonderful Faithful High Priest who sympathizes with us. He loves us dearly. He even died for these narcs. How great a love is this that we can be forgiven of our sins and be made new in Christ Jesus and have Him in our lives to navigate through life.
Clearly there are many more verses on this topic as God has revealed the heart of the sinful nature and redemption through His blood.
Not sure if you know the Lord but He loves you and His Word the Bible is true. We are complete in Him. His approval is all that matters.
Blessings to you.
So true!
They are sheer evil!...
YES!!! You described it so well!!! Free 2 years, thank God!
@@Hisjewelever-Malachi , Thank you so much Brother for taking the time to write out the truth. It is written. Another Scripture that reveals the Narcissist and the world today is 2- Timothy 2: 23 to 3- 7.
May GOD Bless you and whoever is reading this abundantly in Jesus Mighty name.
A typical trait of every narcissist, whether they are covert or grandiose type, is that they will invalidate you, your perception and feelings. They make you feel unheard, unseen, unimportant and even immature. It feels like being in a dark deep hole where no one can hear even if you screamed. It made me feel very lonely and anytime I tried to reach out to others for help, the narcissist at my workplace who had hacked my phone, contacted my acquaintances and sabotaged my connections by spreading lies and negativity.
I never doubted my feelings and perceptions and never stopped believing that I am human enough to be treated with respect and dignity, that my privacy has to be respected and I am not willing to accept abuse from anyone.
Narcissists are dirty, disgusting, inauspicious entities.
That is so evil they did that to you. My ex husband actually called my work and told them lies about me. These narcissist are like clones of each other.
yes they do make you feel immature. I can't believe that I was made to feel like this despite all the good and interesting things I had done in my life. She crept into my mind and tried to dismantle my sense of self, made me feel like a useless child in the sunbeam of her grand divinity. Can't believe I fell for it.
I love your last sentence, it's terrific writing. Yes, immaturity. My cousin, a covert malignant narcissist, is so pathetic that not only did he constantly try to posit himself as the man and me as the child, I've caught him on Disqus, calling men who disagree with his assh*le political views "little boy," and "child." He thinks this is clever, and that by doing it, he asserts his superiority.
@@bobtaylor170 Thanks buddy
Please change your number and device if you can and let your friends know it was hacked, hope you're safer now ❤🌹
Intuition is your guide when dealing with covert narcissists.
Journaling helps keep your sanity. Especially with these people.
I second the Journaling, I was able to pull myself out of the confusion and see the cycle with written facts and the repitition.
True. We can sense the toxicity of certain individuals.
@@amays7720 journaling does so many good things for the mind and body.
@@wheelerpat8 100% 🙌🏻. Ever since writing down my thoughts in relation to this Narc it's like their power over me has subsided and gone away.
The covert narcissist I know deserves an Oscar for being a great actor.
Most are good actors. There crazy in the head, but think they are normal. God bless all narcissist survivors we sure need it 🙏
@@hugmc , but knowing about their tricks makes it easier to deal with them. Since I learned more about narcissism from Dr. Carter and other channels, I slowly stopped having anxiety and I am feeling so much better.
My sister can out-act Katharine Hepburn...tears included. Many years ago a friend of hers told her she should have been an actress.
So convincing even without the tears. Much practice. Soon realize it was just sheer rage and manipulation and lies, not getting their way, and of course gaslighting. Bullying with the pity-party. Favorite new term: Crybully.
@@pgicus and that is definitely my sister. Pity-party with gaslighting, bullying, etc. She is still pulling that off on her twin. And everything is such a COMPETITION!
It’s hard dealing with these people because their lack of interest and connection ruins families. It would be nice if their behavior only ruined their own lives.
Exactly. Why did it have to ruin mine. Or did i ruin mine? Just being here makes me confused.
@@Oceans780 so true 😩
These people are emotional/mental health assassins. It took me 10 years to figure out this person. They need to be exposed far more than they are. Too often they are not recognized for what they are and they are sneaky SOB’s that destroy other people because of their stealth.
@MUSTBE1776 You left? Good for you. Now go and find the happiness and a better future that you and your children deserve. Good job. According to the Bible, its the last days and evil men and seducers will wax worse. God bless you and your children in Jesus name. Amen. Take care..
@@QuasiBlond their only found out when someone becomes a victim or an honest person tells you about the red flags that we've been warned about. Another reason for not being found out for what they really are, is because alot of people these days are Narcs, so their behavior is considered normal. It's a spiritual thing so until the Lord shows you what we've suspected all along, we would have never known. God bless you and take care.
Your unhappiness, your self-doubt, your self-blame , your misplaced sense of guilt about the narcissist…..is joy for the narcissist! They enjoy making you miserable.
My soon to be ex husband is a covert narcissist. I never thought I’d be married and getting divorced by 28, but I’m SO happy that I don’t have to deal with this person anymore.
Thank God you had enough resolve and didn't stay for 20 or 30 years!! So many lives are destroyed by this sickness.
I didn't believe it either. I'm not a divorce kind of person,,,,but thank GOD for it! Dig into your childhood as to why you picked that person to marry. I just discovered my dad has covert Narc tendencies and has treated me just like my ex did during my childhood. Neglect, rage, withholding affection, withholding support, etc.
Careful. When I divorced my covert narc husband, he started driving by all the time and showing up places to “bump” into me. Hope yours finds someone else to sink his fangs into quick because they have to have someone to make miserable all the time. They’re very sick people, energy vampires, who never get better.
Congratulations on getting yourself out of there! Throw yourself a freedom party!
I’m happy for you too!
They're not in it for a relationship-- they want to win the game.
They cherish their deepest darkest secrets...in fact they have a relationship with it instead of You.
...never really thought about it that way...
So true and that is the real reason they deliberately refuse to cooperate, they sabotage, lie, gaslight and deny people closure. This is why they play the victim when they are the abuser and crazy maker/ drama kings. They are like that gollum creature from Hobbit books. Their secrets are more precious than any person and any relationship so they would rather cause you a great mental health crisis that may detrimentally impact their own family and children rather than be honest and cooperative for the sake of everyone else even after they promised it in front of others and in court too. Their secrets and fantasies matter more than God, goodness, people, logic, love or money. They are the opposite of their victims who care about truth, compassion, needs of others (especially safety and health of children), goodness, love and fairness/justice. All we want and need is for them to periodically do the right thing just because it is the right thing only and then we could see them as flawed people like the rest of us and not toxic and disordered people we fear and suffocate under the strain of. The problem is that when they find out this truth they put it away like in a calendar and remind themselves to do it to keep up the charade and string you and others along indefinitely. That is the nature of things with a covert that is great at soliciting feelings of pity and signals of false victimhood. That is how they suck people dry and future fake in a believable.manner with minimal bread crumbs. They train you to gaslight yourself on their behalf with trigger words and looks. It is easy if you grew up in similar situations and have other traumas/ PTSD.
@@amandachilds5290
Thank you Amanda - you have just described it to a T.
It is just sooooo crazy even when we are truly trying to recover & heal from this mess. I've always been a happy person because I really am a Christian & no amount of even what Christ has done & can do in their life is acceptable to them. They don't want the real answer or real solutions. It is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. Your description was very accurate & helpful to me today.
I am moving forward through all of this to get to the other side for the purposes of God to be a help to others who have gone through this as well.
It has been a very difficult road in the process of healing & I'm ready to be on the other side of it. You have encouraged me today. Thank you for taking the time to share your insight.
🌻
@@amandachilds5290 Sorry that you had to become so knowledgeable on such a disgusting subject. Hopefully you are now at a place of some peace and are safe. It's horrible when children are involved and you can't just disappear. When they can't do the right thing, even for their children's sake because they must satisfy their need to destroy you.
@@karriphillips5090 thank you. It has taken me a long time to feel like I can be of help to someone about this and is why I do it. When it was much too fresh I just could not as I was not sure of myself yet and what my motivation was. I want to encourage people on the videos that seem to be more helpful and less about bashing or venting. There are so many on classic narcissists that when I researched the first time when things were upside down I did not get good answers or help and went down a BPD and bipolar path because no one really explained coverts well. There is much more now and I hope it helps people. Take it one moment at a time. God bless.
The covert narcissist is grandiose but their grandiosity (unlike the overt narcissist) is hidden.
Users of people. No depth. Self serving. Thin skinned. All about them. Never do anything wrong. I tried for so long to figure out what was wrong with me...it broke my heart and soul.
Not you at all!
“They can’t lean into your happiness.” So true! My ex narc lived to be miserable and the constant victim. Ugh, so glad he is in my past. I’m now married to an amazing, kind and loving man who doesn’t have a manipulative or deceitful bone in his body. Total man of my dreams.
And you can't find theirs to lean into, because they're so unhappy, toxic, dishonest, and self-absorbed. You lose yourself trying (and of course, failing, that's the plan).
I to have a great lady in my life now nothing is perfect for the rest of the family .a lot of narcissistic activity there very sickening.
I’m so happy for you!😄
So good to hear you found someone nice. Gives me hope for my future.
Does he have a brother?
Coverts can wear a MASK for YEARS
And they have different masks for different people. Actors.
@@echase416 , Spot on!
Yes I experience a 22 year old one.
For a lifetime.
Literally for decades then one day it comes off
#5 is so hurtful, when their priorities are backwards and they treat other people better
Anytime someone would ask me for a favor from my husband. I told them to ask directly themselves because 99% of the time he would say yes. If I asked it was a hard NO. The only people he refused were his wife and child. But bent over backwards for a stranger. Drove me crazy.
They are sad sad people. I pity them because they put so much energy into *trying* to be manipulative, but in the end they are just going to end up with a empty soul and no one they truly can be close with.
That sums it up to a capital T. Why go one's whole life with this level,of regret in the end?
It's like investing in toilet water for retirement and then getting angry when it doesn't work out. 🤪
They don't end up with it, they already have it, hence their behavior. I believe this state is being engineered via metallic iron filings added into the food supply. Truth is stranger than fiction, and the families that control the fraudulent debt-based money systems in every country around the globe, except Syria and Iran (now you understand foreign policy) believe they must finance and manifest the Biblical prophecies in order to have the best shot at taking over control of the planet for their "bloodline."
Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest **iron mixed with miry clay**, **they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men**: but **they shall not cleave one to another**, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Note that "cleave" is the Biblical word used to describe the IDEAL LOVING, CARING, EMPATHETIC marital relationship. Also note that an excellent definition of narcissism is the reverse of the Fruits of God's Spirit: Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Take the anti-thesis of each one and one and you have your definition in spades.
According to Morley Robbins, the toxic iron filings eventually trigger the NLRP3 "fear sensor" of the cell. Imagine "fear" emanating from inside all your cells -- including your nervous system (upregulating fight of flight) and prefrontal cortex! The "supply" they demand just might be their definition of "pleasing noise" in their attempt to temporarily drowned out their "fear signal."
@11:07 -- "They are fear-based people..." Dr. Carter
...
INORGANIC Metallic Iron Filings in Cereal Video -- th-cam.com/video/HGbwFtmJOi4/w-d-xo.html
** Some will claim beans and spinach have iron in them, so adding iron filings to cereal is no problem. Where is the video pulling metallic iron filings from spinach and beans? They can't do it. The form matters more than the name -- don't be deceived! Organic iron in plants is usable while INORGANIC metallic iron filings are quite toxic and designated as a carcinogen (increasing cancer rates are NOT coming from Mars!).
Iron behaving badly: iron as contributor to inflammatory and degenerative diseases -- bmcmedgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1755-8794-2-2
Summary of Rogue Iron Accumulation in the Human Body -- veritascontent.blob.core.windows.net/audio/YTC_Archive/ytc010719-MorleyRobbins.mp3
Morley Robbins - My Theory Of Everything -- th-cam.com/video/Iq94ROB5qEs/w-d-xo.html
Morley Robbins - Magnesium, Copper and Iron Synergy - August 11, 2020 -- th-cam.com/video/kYEGfE9DUJ4/w-d-xo.html
Understanding Copper Toxicity (same as iron overload): th-cam.com/video/QyV4TgXCGC0/w-d-xo.html
The Iron Toxic Calcium Shell -- coppertoxic.com/calcium-shell
These people need to be involuntarily committed as a matter of public safety or required to register someplace at a minimum!
🌟
The c in covert is never getting caught.
Kinda like at war. Playing covert war games. Playing them with they're loved ones though. Many more relationships . It's tragically very real..Even though they may be at war with themselves everyone around them suffer.
Thank you
Would be great!
They don't have time for anyone who doesn't serve them in some way. Be mindful of when they're hitting you up.
🎯🎯🎯
exactly
Yes. When I started saying no to my covert narcissist former friend, she started spreading rumors about me to anyone who would listen. She slandered and committed libelous acts all because I laid down boundaries. When I pointed out that I had grounds for a lawsuit (and that social media posts do count in a court of law), she was crapping herself.
She tried to guilt trip me and asked if I would ever really sue a friend.
My response:
“I'm not talking about my friends. I'm talking about you.“
She was floored.
Oh yeah, the cynicism is exhausting. I bring something good, and he manages to find something nasty about it. It is depressing and tiring, and they don't understand that it is their behavior makes people draw back from them.
Precisely!
That is a good thing withdrawing for the other people 😁
I remember saying to my husband early in my marriage, "Life can't really be *that* bad." To which he replied, "Funny. I was literally just thinking that the life you describe can't really be that *good.* I really should have followed my gut instinct back then and run away. But I'm currently entertaining the idea that those years are not lost. What was meant for evil, God used for good. (I think that's Genesis 50:20.) I am already so much stronger than I ever have been before because surviving a Covert Narcissist abusive relationship has forced me to come to terms with my own issues. Just look at how strong and capable we can all become if we do the hard work! And if we survivors get strong and speak out, we will change how narcs mess with society. Society will be educated, see them for who they are, and hold them accountable. Yes, let's all do the work! Go, Team Healthy!
A narcissist will often call their victims narcissists. Only after I learned what a narcissist is I realised she was the very thing she was telling me I was... A narcissist!
projecting their insecurities(people seeing their narc traits) onto you!
He is describing my husband. I always thought that all men in relationships communicate like that. I figured out after 13 years of marriage that he is just a very sick person. ! !! The number 1 rule when dealing with a covered narcissist: keep your eyes open and your mouth shut!!!
One thing I noticed early on with my CN husband: when the weather was bad and I had to drive, or I was out after dark,etc , he was never the least bit concerned. If I mentioned an encounter with a man that made me uncomfortable, he would just shrug it off rather than worry about me or try to defend me. I couldn’t understand why he had so little regard for my safety.
Yes, I had familiar situations. He even would make me feel guilty if I would ask for help in these situations..
@@Justeet exactly! Like I was just an inconvenience
@@robinette64 yes, inconvenience or a burden :(
Not asking follow up questions is such a good point/observation. My ex would never ask follow up questions or try to understand my experience, like if said "I'm anxious" he would just say something like "don't be anxious" or "I'm sorry". I always thought it was so odd that he never asked why or any of the typical follow up questions. I thought he must just have bad social skills, it was like dealing with an alien. Eventually I told him that I want him to ask questions and show curiousity about my experience. He did ask questions, like "why?" Then a few times after that but it was so unnatural and weird, and he still clearly didn't seem interested in the answer. What a heachache.
The narcs go to response to anything was always "nice". That was the end of the conversation. They have zero interest in anything except themselves.
Yes 100%! If they can't say something shitty they just don't say anything. When my parents saw the sweater I knitted my son they were like "Oh wow that's great I could never make something like that" and then just changed the subject. No curiosity about how I did it, just "oh nice" and move on. Then they saw something I had painted hanging up in my home and gushed about it, oh the colors! the composition! so interesting! until I told them I painted it and then they just "Oh ok" and change the subject.
I know i get that too never says anything sometimes when i get my hair done or nails
They just don't really Care unless it Concerns them, they are Manipulating or they are Gleaning information to use against you somehow...it goes down to a Place in your Soul that Only God can Cure and if you're Blessed A Good Mate!
OMG. So familiar..even one of my closest friends from teen years. She has very high level job in pharma industry and these are her exact responses. Its HURTFUL!
Covert narcissist need to be exposed at every opportunity. They destroy the mental health of their target. They are capable of operating in stealth mode for years and years without ever being discovered.
Exactly!! Spot on.
Facts
7 years in, just realising years of gas lighting, control, blaming and shaming, negative.
FACTS!!!
@ Lin j..Sad when you realize decades later that the campaign of slander ,lies , and betrayal has been going on.
Before I knew what was going on, that my husband of 31 years is a textbook covert narcissist, I always wondered why it seemed like he kept himself walled off from me. I also wondered why everything was always my fault, no matter what it was. Thanks Dr C for helping me learn what I'm dealing with, it's Iike turning on a light in a very dark room!!
I didn't realize my wife of 36 years was a narcissist until she had an affair.
I always knew something was "off" with my husband of 33 years. But up until a few years ago, I could never figure out what it was, besides controlling. Then along came Dr C and BAM! I had my answer! Then I understood all of it very clearly. I left the marriage a month ago and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.
💗
Same here...know you are not alone❤
36 years for me been free for over 3.
The worst part is when they make you feel like you are the narcissist and you start believing it . Thanks for restoring my sanity with these videos.
My covert narcissist sister destroyed our family. My dad always said to “stay away from her, she’s crazy”. My mom always said “just ignore it”. Now only me and my two sisters left. NO CONTACT. Never felt happier.
At least your mom and dad see it. Mine cater to her every need and treat her like she’s royalty and never ask her to lift a finger or take any accountability. When I go no contact, I become villainized because she puts on this baby act and then it seems like I’m the one who’s lost my mind because I’m cutting off the cute little baby of the family. They know that under the baby act is a plotting calculating tactical gaslighting greedy selfish black hole who ropes everyone in to suck the life out of them and program them to get what she wants, they know it, they just choose to ignore it. Not I.
That’s what my mom did to miss crazy. More so when my dad died in 07. I only learned about narcissism last September 3 days after mom died. Knowledge is power.
@@cereal_qilla anyone who gaslights us for going no contact with evil needs also to be shown the door, parents or not.
@@raccuia1 Amen
@@raccuia1 so true! family or not! there only one life to spend in peace and it's short!
They turn down plans with you but do the same with somebody else. Amen.
My mother was a covert narcissist. She had a jekyll-hyde thing going. After she raged at me. and was horrible she would act helpless.I would catch her saying mean things about me to other people. People believed her. This was so hard because she could change her personality to fit the circumstance. From raging villain to helpless victim.
I hear you on that one! If you tell people about the Jekyll they would never believe you!
*chameleon Just like the lizard, they change "colors" right before your eyes! When people meet them or are around them, they believe the person is as they appear at that time, instead of it just being one of many "colors"/appearances that the narcissist puts on.
My mother does the same. Suddenly people are treating me funny and distancing themselves from me so I was more isolated and she could control me effectively.
It’s really scary how they switch their opinion of you in the same breath. I’d hear my mom get off the phone with my grandma saying she understands how I feel and that maybe I have a point on something she’s doing and as soon as she hung up the phone I’d hear her tell my brother how awful and selfish I am and tell him she just needs to get me out of the house asap. Then when I go downstairs she’s a victim again and begging me to help her with some task like grab her a pillow across the room or if I can put her socks on for her. It’s numbing and manipulative
Mine too, and my sister is continuing the process now mum is dead
His last point hit a nerve with me. My father died last Christmas Eve, and it was a lot to process for me. I showed up to church on Christmas morning and the pastor asked how I was doing. I told him I was really struggling. He told me: "Count your blessings. At least you found a job last month." After several incidents similar to this, I am no longer attending that church. When my brother died unexpectedly two weeks later, he had ZERO empathy.
This is why I don't attend church anymore. Jesus and I get along just fine without the hierarchy of the church and all its damaged people trying to keep their social club going with YOUR money!
My mother is a covert narcissist. I am 53 and she is 72 and is the same as she was 50 yrs ago. They never change. Never.
They not only don't change, they get worse!
@@hcombs0104 You are absolutely right!
You’re telling them something your very excited about and the response is “get to the point!”. When they tell you something they are excited about, they go on and on, tell every detail, you better not say “get to the point” because they (narcissist) will throw up their hands, walk away saying, “just forget about it! Your not listening anyway!” It’s a no win situation!
@Bluejay . .WOW you as well ? They interrupt your conversation , they have no attention span except for what turning into being ALL about THEM is about. Stoners and addicts are the worst.
@@crystalbluewire3339 👍🏻
So true
Yup. Sounds so familiar.
You just described my former friend. Once I had her dead to rights on all the slanderous and libeloue acts she had committed against me, I had her backed into a corner. I held her hostage on the phone as I took her to task on everything she had done. She was a liar and a crook. I had screenshots, emails, private messages, scan documents, everything. She was forced to listen under the threat that I was going to expose her all over social media for what she did. In addition to being a horrible person she was also a criminal. After all, a law is just another boundary they don't acknowledge or respect.
Shortly after that final phone call, I found out from a mutual friend (whom I was fortunately able to wake up to her toxic ways) that she stuttered and spluttered in fear at the mere mention of my name.
He thought it was odd and he never understood why she didn't want to discuss me ever again. Once I spilled the beans and told him to pay attention to how she behaved, he started to see the same patterns. He eventually went no-contact with her nearly two years ago and is still in the healing process.
“Unfortunately, I can’t really afford to care that much.” Bingo. We really canNOT afford to care about their manipulations and childish game-playing!! Thank you for your insights, Dr. C.
The word unfortunately is the key word to me u want to care but u have to withdraw just to keep your own sanity.
@@mikemcternan8249 Right, I think he meant “unfortunately” for THEM. They would like us to constantly be thinking about their crazy antics. It just made me laugh when he said that.
I shut down my covert narcissist former friend with one line: “You're not everyone's top priority and expecting everyone to treat you as such is why you have no friends.“
Of course, this led to her ending the call and then bombarding you with a series of grammatically incorrect, poorly spelled private messages, texts and emails where she had to argue her case (“Just touching base...” “just to clarify a few things...” “I thought you ought know...”) and get the last word. You know how it goes.
After this happened several times, I started to realize how drained and spent I felt after interactions with her. When she was doing her petty silent treatment punishments, it was actually a welcome to vacation from all of her toxicity. I began to think about how she didn't have anything resembling a relationship with any of her living relatives. She had sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles and several cousins, etc. None of them maintain contact with her. Sometimes a person is the black sheep for a reason. Pay attention to the warning signs.
Recovering still a year later from the gaslighting abuse of a Covert Narcissist. Learning to branch out and trust again in new relationships.
We were a couple for only 5 months, but still 6 months later, I'm not myself....
@@andersa3448 similar. I feel so frustrated...
I understand this. I was married to a sociopath for a decade & divorced in 2013. I’m still recovering from the gaslighting abuse...
After a lifetime of being gaslighted by a cousin who I looked up to as a sister, I began to connect the dots. My mother's classic expression was: "Are you sure??". She must've said that a hundred times a day when I was growing up And of course, I was never 'sure'. But when I noticed my cousin taking the 'other side' of whatever situation I was trying to explain, I began to wake up and say....hey! I've heard of this thing called 'gaslighting' and I think this is it! I made the mistake of sending her an explanatory email which she ignored. I haven't been in touch since . Thank you for educating us 'old folk'. If not for your videos, I would never have realized that gaslighting is an actual technique, even if unconscious. It's never too late to learn. I'm in my seventies and have been gaslighted all my life. But I'm beginning to wake up!! :)
@@susanadams3874 I didn't have the name for the technique either, but I recall a 'friend' who would unexpectedly undermine me, and if i confided in her about any difficulty she would run to that person and start drama against me. I physically felt 'weird' when it happened, I felt stunned and would try to clarify....
When you said "explanatory email" I had to laugh because I tried that so many times!
You have described an old friend I had to cut ties with years ago. I didn’t understand her behavior, just knew it had become very toxic. Finally understand why my instinct were so strong. Thanks.
That is exactly what I experienced with my friend. I just thought she was a little odd. Well, she had a hard life, as she told me. She often had conflicts with relatives and friends. She lost jobs occasionally. She said it happened to her, she had no idea why. I seemed to be the steady element in her life. I was sure she respected and valued me as a loyal friend. Until a few years ago I found out she did not do that. On the contrary, she started to treat me like dr. Carter described in this video. I was often confused and asked myself what I had done wrong. Recently I had to cut ties as well for my own sanity.
I had to cut off 3 friends like this
I just cut off my relative because of this. Her mother is a grandiose narcissist and I wanted to believe her stories of how she wanted to be better but she has shown me for years that she is a broken woman. A covert narcissist and I cannot allow her to abuse me any longer. No matter how much love, care, or respect you give, they cannot return it. They only want to cause others pain. They are toxic and demonic entities for sure.
When the eyes wander off and into the back of the head...
Yup. I know that well.
And their head begins to do a 360... 😉😉
I thought I was marrying the opposite of my malignant overt narc father but instead married a covert/vulnerable. His discarding me was my saving grace as it pushed me towards filing for divorce instead of enduring more of his psychological abuse
Wow thank you Dr C. I'm 68 years old and just now learning what gaslighting is. Another layer of the onion is being peeled away! It's never too late to heal from a broken distant past! I could almost write a book.
Keep learning! That's why we're here! Dr. C
I was so touched by my husband ‘s gesture of holding my hand while we drifted off to sleep only to realize it was so he would know when I was knocked out and he could slip out in the middle of the night...UGH
What does he go do? Mine doesn't hold my hands but he stay in bed and asa I sleep off he goes downstairs for phone sex with his affair partner.
Oh no.
The "I have another opportunity to gaslight you" part is what I was missing until now.
I kept feeding into a narcissist who would take my compassion and use it against me. The more I tried to show I cared, the more I was deliberately misunderstood, so I would try even more to show I cared, and the gaslighting just kept getting worse the more I tried. I had to grey-rock, and be on team healthy, and direct them to a professional.
I once asked a narcissist “why did you have to argue with your mom like that ?”
The narcissist said “we didn’t argue - we were just talking loud”
Gaslighting! Also illogical rationalizing too! 🤦♂️
Narcissists are exasperating impossible people!
Right Dr Carter ?
They are not logical. They are not rational. They are not workable: they are very disregulated.
Gaslighting is when they tell a lie to their target/victim/scapegoat to manipulate their victim's mind or life. Yes, gaslighting means it's a lie, but not all lies involve gaslighting. If they lie about their argument with their parent, that's not gaslighting. Gaslighting is what they do when they lie to their scapegoat/victim to mess with their mind or to manipulate them.
There are always 2 sides. Did you ask specifically what the mom "did?"
You just described the last 12 years of my life! Like a prison term!
I felt the same 👍
I got a new side job yesterday, told my partner and he wasn't sharing in my happiness, instead said oh so maybe you can help pay the bills more now. Wowwweee!! I need out. When my dad died he didn't even act sad just was sad he wasn't invited!!
Congratulations on your new job.
Wow, it’s hurts to live with who is so shallow.
Yes, congratulations on your new job. You deserve to be appreciated.
@@virginiaharvey thank you for this. Last night I called him out as gaslighting. Its funny now watching him squirm when I set my boundaries. Its causing my stomach to hurt to be this way.
@@Star-dj1kw thank you and another one the next day. I tell him and again, he says hmm.
@@tribblegirl2 thank you I appreciate you
Love this: “Unfortunately, I just can’t afford to care that much.“ Perfect!
You have given me the best knowledge on narcissism and gaslighting.
I was scared to look it up because I feared I was actually being abused this way.
This teaching and examples had me burst into tears me because I finally can put knowledge/validation behind the way I am feeling and I don’t feel so alone/crazy now.
Thank you so much.
It is a nightmare, and you sure are not alone. It's frustrating as there is no way to change them. My husband will gaslight about something, months later, gaslight about the gaslight! This is to annoy me, or make me fight by saying "so what's the truth" .... then it is silent treatment, or i'm crazy asking about this again....... well I know the truths.
I was in an almost 10 year relationship with a covert narcissist. It's an impossible "situationship"...trying to forgive myself for my ignorance.
Same here. Im working since years on forgiving myself for being "naive" while at the same time missing so many sides of my old "naive"self which was destroyed by her.
I find it hard to forgive myself for getting caught with a covert narc. But they are good at what they do, use flying monkeys to assist them and silver tongue gaslight when you start to catch on. Not worth the trauma.
Damn right.𑁍 Hope you heal from it all, I resonate with your comment☼︎.
I got rid of the covert narcissist in my life a month ago after an eight year relationship. I'm still feeling duped and hurt and dumb. I'll heal from it because I have a healthy network to help me, and I hope y'all find your way too.
Thanks to Dr. Les for spelling it out so simply and so empathically.
I was ashamed of myself for having put up with all that crap for 24 years, but then I discovered Dr. C videos, and the precious comment section. I realized that I was not the only one, that we're not idiots, and that narcs are master manipulators. Shame on them, not on us.
Society as a whole needs to wake up to all this. Funny to think about what might happen then
@@theguaable Yes! These lessons need to be taught in all schools!
I remember i got a really good job,came home very proud of myself and my ex just said Well its about time, that really stung
Well done on getting that job! Must have been twice as difficult living with someone like that so double the achievement 👏👏 My mother is a terrible Narc and I only gained understanding through this channel and the comment section .
@CatherinePraus Congratulations on the job. That's awesome.
My ex used to tell me that my job was nothing and he would be able to do it without any training as he was so smart. Minimizing our accomplishments is something they do well.
Fortunately, we know differently!
Congratulations 🎉🎈👏👏👏👏
What rock does he live under?
Getting a job these days is a major achievement!
After 24 years as a mental health professional, I so appreciate these videos as the mental health field lags so far behind on truly defining personality disorders that don't fit the DSM model. Covert narcissistic clients always take me longer to figure out that they are indeed narcissistic since I'm so familiar with the grandiose type. Great job 👏👍❤
I'm thinking about studying psychology once I get all my bearings back. My narc family will be saying "see told you she was mental".
Do not EVER tell them you are happy. They will sabotage you in every way they can think of.
Reading diary entries frm decades ago and in disgust. It's plain as the nose on my face that I was married to a Covert Narcissist... I had no idea, reading back is blood curdling. Went (business) trips & (boys) night's out on my birthdays, when the children were sick & when I was unwell or full term pregnant... On his bd's I prepared special dinners on his return home whilst looking after v young children. My bday became a huge prob for him and he became more and more abusive. Sadly it was my now grown up child that put him in his place.. 35 yrs, 2 years no contact...
you are very lucky to a have a wise child- genrally children become like their abusers and abuse later on their mothers/fathers (who were a target from the beginning)
@@user-zy8gk2nn7d Thank you! It was my children who had to educate me. It was them that told me that their father didn't deserve me.... Having said that there was much confusion for many many years..
The malignant narcissist alcoholic ex I divorced recently would as predicted scheme to sabotage and ruin birthdays, celebrations, vacations,holidays ,etc.....
If it wasn’t anything celebrating him he would
Always triangulate bully and provoke
Fights between us
Especially my birthday and Mother’s Day where he would conveniently plot and plan something else for him to do or just leave and be gone all day on those days.
Not only did he have lack of empathy or concern when my parents passed away or any moments where you would naturally assume your spouse or partner would be there for you
but these horrible crisis moments of mine and my children’s lives were cues for his contemptuous sadistic deranged mind to strategize ways to punish us further by stonewalling and antagonizing fights not only with him but intentionally triangulating arguments between myself and my children
Throughout the “marriage “ I would make fun plans for activities celebrations with others , we would receive invites to my friends and families parties, ,etc...and he would always reject them,
yet he would tell everyone a victim sob story that always set me up to look like I was the one saying no or not wanting to plan something
I am so regretful of so much life wasted on and so so much damage done by this malevolent person
@@Canaday291 Thank you for sharing. My marriage to a narcissist has had devastating implications. I can't put into words, I really can't.....
Mine just stopped celebrating all birthdays and holidays.
Complete insanity. It was years before I figured out I had been dating some kind of creature.
Demon
I've heard and learned that all narcissists are something on the scale covert-overt. Vulnerable narcissists can abuse their victims very overtly and be grandiose and grandiose narcissists can also abuse their victims covertly.
Anne, I came to the conclusion that it works this way : when the covert feels "safe" (meaning through emotional abuse they have worn you down enough) they turn overt. The Overt will behave covertly if not comfortable with a certain situation. Narcissists are cowards and nobody is suppose to figure them out. But we have, hurrah!
@@mariaawake4502 It's also true sometimes that if they cannot break you covertly and you just won't react to their covert abuse and all the tricks they use, they will start using overt abuse. It can be also that something triggers them suddenly (might be that they have been feeling threatened for a while) and they start to use narcissistic rage against you even violently. Then they just keep on being grandiose to wear you down. They project their guilt back to you, blame-shift, rage, use word-salads etc. They try to bring you to the breaking point. When they get you to go crazy, they can act "normal" for a while, then they start the covert abuse (flashing their rage every now and then, though..) and finally you are back to totally overt abuse. It just goes on and on.. Finally you realize the pattern after having gone through it multiple times and get sick of it. Then you become free.
@@annehynynen8153 , yes I know this cycle all to well, too . Since I learnt to notice manipulative tricks - triggering wounds, word salads, snippy remarks etc. I am able to stay out of the circus. The narcissist I am dealing with does not show open rage , I suspect because of health problems. Some years ago , when I was worn down , because I did not know about narcissism, he behaved overt.
@@badlucksucks406 , Productive conversation? : "Brrr...I don´t do that ".
@@badlucksucks406 Exactly!!
In addition to the gaslighting, they also want to show how superior they are. You can hear it in each of those points. I can add few more:
#8: if they screw up and are proven wrong, they won't apologize
#9: if they want something but realize that you won't be pushed around easily, they will go around you.
This is my mother, her sense of entitlement is painful. She is all of this and more, a passive-aggressive narc, she cuts you down with a smile.
I recently dealt with one of these coverts, they are so happy during the love bombing phase and then all of a sudden they’re absolutely miserable. They breadcrumb you and invite you to places and then when you’re out with them they literally act like they hate you. Respect your own time and energy and get rid if you can! I feel for those of you that are in situations where you cannot leave, just know that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you! Find your happiness in other things 💓 you are amazing for watching videos like this and educating yourself!
You can always leave. It might take years but it’s always a choice.
Yes! That's exactly it. I remember when my former friend, who was a covert narcissist, was spreading rumors that I was suicidal because of my father disowning me after I was outed (I later found out she was the one who outed me to him), she immediately tried to turn into the rescuer and tried to paint herself as my only ally. I didn't believe it because I had already seen extremely irregular behavior in her. That's just one example. They really do have a deity complex but the second it requires any real action from them, they turn into a ghost.
It makes you feel less than human when they do this stuff. When I had just found out my cousin died of a brain tumor and I tearfully told my husband, he looked at me blankly, said “Mmmm” then got back on his rowing machine and put in his earbuds. I stood there for a sec to try to comprehend his response. I couldn’t. I got angry and left the room.
What a bizarre response
Is he your ex husband now?
I had a "best friend" in this category. It was a crazy cycle of being told how wonderful, special and empathetic I was, followed by how I was an untrustworthy liar. She liked me best when I wasn't doing well, and when life was good she'd try to make it seem that I was faking it and that my life was really miserable.
"They can't lean into happiness with you" wow sir that one hit me, that's exactly what I'm dealing with.
It’s amazing how they coward down when you flip the tables on them
quiet haughtiness is good discription.Its funny how you can sense it without a word.I wish that I listened to my gut when I felt this and walked away.It would have saved me so much deep grief.Thank you again Dr Carter🌷
I have noticed that they actually looked at people with a curled lip of disgust and contempt for other people.
When I discarded my narc first it took almost a full year to get over it.... He tried to hoover recently and I completely ignored him. I feel I have my power back!!!
But what do you do with the ones who refuse to give up?
@@wheelerpat8 discard them... Block them... And ignore them....
I hear the “we don’t have a connection” allllll the time. So frustrating. Also, anytime I’ve had a really good week and I’m really happy, I have to pay. 😖
Mine said "We're incompatible." Then he made no efforts whatsoever to try to fix anything. He bitched about it often but did nothing to remedy it. And stupid me, I tried to change all that about myself, and my efforts were wasted because I was discarded anyway.
The moment anyone hears that they don't have a connection or that they're incompatible, or that the relationship isn't working, they should cut their losses and move on, leaving that "relationship" in the dust. The reason for those disconnects was never the fault of the scapegoat anyway. It's only a blame-game. If the jerks felt that way to say those things, they should have stopped wasting others' time. You can't change yourself to undo someone else's disregulation; it's not about you. Years can be wasted with these people, decades! Life is too short for their crap. One shouldn't have to hide their happy moments in order not "to pay." They don't deserve your company if they're going to be that way.
Yes, we are punished for being happy. It always drove me crazy.
"Why does my happiness upset you?"
"It makes you more annoying than usual."
😢
"What do you even like about me? "
"....."
That was the day I determined to leave.
Sounds like someone to keep your good times from. Shutty shutty.
Mine says the same thing and me trying to be nice asked him what we can do to connect again and then he said no it's you who is disconnected to me!! very interesting as an answer hun? I mocked him saying that I will find a way to connected to him
I am so grateful for Dr. Carter. I'm in the mist of getting my covert narcissist husband of 17 lonely and frustrating years out of my life. Late at night, I wonder if I can do something to salvage the marriage and then I watch his videos and I'm snapped back to reality! God send. Thank you!
So pleased it resonates! Dr. C
Yes!
After me repeating that our relationship can’t be fixed he finally admitted gaslighting is abuse and that he was abusive in his past relationship too. I could not believe it. After denying and minimizing his behavior, even after I recorded him! I’m not a professional to deal with this behavior.
You have just described my was best friend for 37 years. She ghosted me a little over a year ago now and I took the opportunity to run as far away as I could from her. I should have ran years ago! Now I am happy, more confident, smiling more and enjoying life!
My mother, my mother, my mother, my mother, my mother.......My mother. “You’re being Disrespectful to your mother!”......,my entire life....
P M, my mother was the same way. She never figured out that to get respect, you need to be respectable.
she can't take it anymore!
Mine too. 😖
My mother 💔
Just leave and never come back.
You owe her nothing.
This is all true! I was used to enjoy giving gifts on special days. When I would give a gift to the narcissist they would act as though I did something foolish by giving the gift. They didn't even say thank you. I have experienced them turning down help from me as though they didn't want me to be around them, but they would invite me to things. I would be ignored and everything I would say was negated in some way. If I did anything to help they would ignore it. Every time I have been around them they seem so sad all the time. I think it is because they cannot stand to validate those they are jealous of.
Wow, that is one of the most honest and best descriptions I have ever read. 💯Thank you!
Omg... this happened to me too. He actually returned a gift - a book that cost like $4 but related to something we had talked about, that I already had a copy of - because he had too much to read! Who does that? It was a special occasion too! I felt so bad but couldn’t even say anything in the moment.
The rest of it is very familiar too in the later part of my relationship...
Never would accept a gift! Good grief.
Of the five love languages (Gary Chapman's book) I most appreciate words of affirmation and quality time. I was surprised that recieving gifts was the lowest on most people's list.
My advice. Stay far away from such a person. Get out of that relationship.
It’s been almost a year since I realized my now-ex husband is a covert narcissist. I have healed considerably since then. I have to co-parent with that sneaky snake so I still watch your videos. You always give very practical advice on how to deal with the narcs in our life other than just “go no contact.” I have gained a lot of useful tools for dealing with my ex thanks to this channel. Thank you.
I never thought about gaslighting even though I'd heard the term until I lived with a covert narcissist. This is exactly how you describe it: you constantly wonder what it is that you did that upset or disappointed them, and it creates this idea that you need to do something better to appeal to them. You find yourself trying to please them and it never amounts to anything and they just always seem to think you fail to meet their expectations. This was a life changing realization that actually made me think about things not only in how other people are towards me and the gaslighting they do to me, but also what I've done and what I do with other people. It was mind altering, really.
Needless to say, living with someone like this is like walking on egg shells. You have no idea when you're going to upset this person and you don't know how you're doing it. I also found this person wasn't very aggressive and loud in their combativeness, but they can be very spiteful with their remarks in a passive aggressive way. This person would make really malicious implications without overtly stating what they actually meant, probably because they they have some bad experience with being direct and having malicious comments directed back at them. It's their way of "sneaking" a little jab at you and I think their idea is that you won't notice it because it was too cleverly placed and there's no way an inferior such as yourself could ever return such high wit.
I absolutely have seen the "why are you doing this to me" mentality you describe. This narcissist I'm describing would describe their own child as "failing me in the same ways over and over again", as I recall them saying. They also would say things like "I'm going through ---" with the blank part being some hardship that they're dealing with and using that to make you feel guilty for not submitting to them. I think these two behaviors go hand in hand, and they're designed to make you feel ashamed of yourself for challenging them, and while it can certainly be perceived as unfortunate that someone is going through a hardship it doesn't give them the right to violate your personal boundaries and to try and manipulate you.
I recall this relationship facet where they would always want to get some sort of inflation, like I'd have to praise them in some way and the conversation would end and they'd feel better about themself, but if I failed to inflate their sad ego they would start to become more confrontational and try to increase pressure. This what I think you refer to as the "narcissistic supply". Everything really, ultimately seems to be about that and they don't return even a fraction of what you can give to them so after a while it just becomes this relationship where you're putting all of the effort into it and they're not putting anything into it and they never commit anything towards changing themselves because they see themselves as being perfect.
A victim always. this is how they obtain New Supply. This is why I ignored RED Flags and sided with the Narcissist in the Lovebomb stage. not knowing at the time I was a doormat, an object all along
Yes, it took me decades until recently to finally determine what I did not want to believe, that my beloved sister is a covert narcissist. I finally faced reality this year.
Me too Margo. I hope you have a support system. It leaves a hole in your heart.
Same here.
So many victims off narcissists. Pity we weren’t good at meeting each other, but life goes on 🙏
Whenever you feel confused, watch out because there’s a strong chance you are dealing with a covert narcissist- a poisonous snake and a chameleon, the worst type of them all! Thank you dr Carter😊 God bless you❤
Chronic negativity and anger just under the surface. Hide their emotions or at least the ones they have. Don't do positive. Feel empty and mimic others for character traits. So that's why they may change in the momment from o.k. to angry. Cause u gave someone else attention and not them.
Exactly.
BIG BABIES 😍 THAT NEVER GROW UP!!!!!
@@donnafoley9684 It's like dealing with a difficult child 24/7.
Well said...on point.
You are spot on.
#3 turn down offers for positive connection . .one summer I begged my Passive Aggressive Covert Narcissist to take our children and I swimming ...his answer. ..I can't swim, even the Marines couldn't teach me . . no time . . on an on . ..but a few days later he came home with a sunburn ... he'd been teaching a woman co-workers children how to swim in their private pool ... I started crying and walked out of the room . . this time he followed and demanded why . .. . .you did for strangers what you've never done for or with your own family . .. you're impossible to please he said, and left
I had to push my parents out of my life. I thought all these years they cared and there was something wrong with me. I was fortunate that they slipped their mask.
I was married 24 years to the obvious narcissist...loud, controlling, anger...then divorced in 2004. I am now caring for my aging mother who, as I realize now, is this kind of narcissist, I call her a passive-aggressive, quiet narcissist. Your videos have helped me navigate my relationship with her. Thank you.
that was my parents. my stepdad was the loud malignant narc and my mom was the quiet, plotting, secretive covert narcissist
I had a covert narcassistic boss for three years. 6 months later and I still have work nightmares from the whole awful experience. Really appreciate these videos. On the road to recovery.
I stil have nightmares about my narc boss a year later ;( He knew I knew and avoided all eye contct.
Wish you peace in healing, Ann.
@@krejados1 thank you so much. I'm touched.
I had one for 14 years. He was always hovering me. When I clock into work. Then stand there with his arms folded watching me doing my job. He was overbearing. I'm so glad I finally made a change and quit.
Yes, he often said I was bragging when I shared a milestone or promotion! Only respond with “Nice”. No in-depth questions ever🤔
It's usually one word answers if the topic isn't them.
Spot on! You said in so many words, they can’t enjoy a feeling of fun or joy with you. That is the one thing I had not been able to put into words. I attributed it to it being a male thing, a cool unemotional response. But there is sometimes a minimizing look that accompanies it when I reach out and try to make connection and share something.
Not always "a male thing" with the low-key covert narcissist: my late mother was the Queen of the Gaslighters, gifted to Jedi levels in the deployment of the victim card and subtly shifting every situation to be all about her: she was the bride at every funeral and the corpse at every wedding (and yes, I said that accurately).
Same on all!! Spot on and well said. That little glimpse you get that lets you know what they really think.
@@semperfi818 bride at every funeral...well observed and stated. That is definitely the way the female version goes. The male is more alien robot I think. Again what a good line.
@@amandachilds5290 Not original with me (and I've long forgotten the source, alas) -- but sharply apropos enough to stick with me re the narcissist who did her level best to cripple this scapegoat, who clearly survived the worst she could throw at me and made it my business to use therapy as an adult to help me help myself heal.
Definitely not a male thing. My mother is like that 100% of the time.
I made so many excuses for my ex not knowing he was covert narc. I knew deep down something was off and I was losing myself like my soul slowly dying. I didn’t understand till I left him and found these videos to understand his covert narc behavior . He always said I played the victim card . I’m thinking do I really ? I didn’t think I did. I was a survivor not a victim of my life. He would get in my head. After 15 years of marriage not sure who he was as he would not open up and be vulnerable. Would show weakness and flaws. God forbid he wasn’t perfect being 🤷🏻♀️.
I grew up under the wings of a highly controlling vulnerable covert narc mother. My dad was mostly unaware, copied part of that behaviour till he got aware, stayed with her, but became towards me more loving and caring. For his peace I am kinda lad he died. I believe he is in a better place now.
I am 41 and went NC last sunday. Because she is vulnerable, can be very sweet as well and old the biggest thing was guilt. So I gave myself a beautiful notebook to mark the start of a new life and made my WTF-list of things she did an said to remember why I had to made this tough choice.
Your videos are great doc! They give me the insight and courage to build up a better live with healthy thoughts and behaviours, without the unnecessary big amount of selfdoubt.
Good luck on your journey!
What’s a vulnerable narc?
@@cereal_qilla same or about the same as covert. My ex was a covert, but I didn't experience him as vunerable, my mum is in my eyes also vulnerable. Maybe the diference is that he was way more aware of his behaviour than she. That's why I use both terms on my mum. To me it feels more accurate. I don't know if that is scientifficly rubbish, but i don't mind.
Similar here. I kept 2 Doc. files on my computer. I listed the blatant lies and abuse I suffered from my mother and sister (Doc 1) and my husband (Doc 2). Whenever I felt maybe it was my fault or maybe I should contact them or maybe there is something wrong with me, I read those docs. As time goes by, sometimes I forget some of what they did but when I read it again I resolve to stay away.
@@cereal_qilla a vulnerable narcissist is another name for a covert narcissist.
My covert narcissist ex(thankfully): I was all excited that finally I got a job and went to tell him. His answer: no reaction, poker face. The Holidays came and he had a work-related party, but no one was paying attention to his new ideas for work. His reaction: behaved like a five year old by sitting in the corner, grumpy, playing the victim that no one listened to him and that he wanted to leave the party asap! Whenever I'd leave the house and got back home telling him how my day was super exciting, his reaction: "so u had fun without me?u can't do that". U know what's funny? Whenever he said I thought he was just being playfull. Oh, boy... I was wrong!! Narcissists do mean it. Another one: all the times he said that he did say this that day or that during a conversation... nope! But he never did and tried to make me feel crazy for not remembering something that had never happened in the first place! 😖 And he'd exploded whenever I said: "uh, no... u didn't say that". These people are extremely mentally exhausting!!!!
My husband worked nights and always complained about the noise level of myself and the 5 year-old. (If I opened the fridge, the sound woke him). So, I started spending Saturdays at my mom's house. He got angry that I spent the only day we were both home away from him.
Sigh, no win situation.
"Hmm, thanks." Consider yourself lucky if you even get that.
Self-absorbed.
Low empathy.
Manipulative behavior.
Hidden messages.
Users of people.
Not a lot of depth.
Thinned skin.
Difficult to coordinate life with.
Some patterns:
1. Playing the role of the victim.
2. Offer minimal gratitude & acknowledgement for your positive gestures or help.
3. Turn down offers for positive connections or experiences with you.
4. Your good achievements or positive experiences are minimized.
5. Turn down plans with you, then do a similar activity with someone else.
6. Masters at eliciting sympathy unnecessarily.
7. Don't enter into experiences that normally would elicit an emotional response.
Potential responses:
1. Consider the source. They fear being vulnerable.
2. Don't plead your case with a covert narcissist.
3. Know your truth when they are gaslighting you..
4. Separate from them.
5. Be on team healthy.
I wish I found this video years ago. I feel so light and relieved now that I know I am not the crazy one. They have been controlling me with making me feel guilty. I am ok to be me even if they perceive me as a bad person. I accept myself as I am. If they can't accept me or I don't meet their expectations that's their problem
Is so funny how they like to call you crazy and that you need help. When they know for a fact the mental state they have put you through and they want to look like they’re so sympathetic.
Married to one. I’m becoming an expert on how to live with one. Or at least this one. (Thanks to Dr Carter) But I must say. It’s exhausting.
Me too... 43 years...
@@grammamarth6681 wow. 31 here
@@tna2me197 A kindred spirit :)
I walked away after 14 years. It was tough at first, but a few months of discomfort sure beats a lifetime of misery.
It is exhausting 😖
Yes, it was after a considerable amount of time that I realized I was working for a narcisisst. When a supervisor has a facade of being mellow, pleasant, friendly. Later to find, she wanted me to feel confused. I was thrown into meetings without being told "how to prepare" or what documents to read or how to come forward as a star. Instead, she had me humiliated, embarassed & definitely feel gaslighted.
Then they punish you as if you should have all figured out.
Oh how I wish that I had had Dr. C.
Three yrs ago! I could have saved myself so much pain. Thanks Dr. C. 2024
It took me 30 years to find out what my covert was. I googled some of the things my narcissist would say to me and google said passive aggressive behavior, see also covert narcissism. I didn't know what that was so I looked it up and watched some videos. It all matched. Even the phrases she would say.
I had no idea until I googled “silent treatment”. I had known grandiose narcissists, they always yelled, silent treatment was new to me. It appeared in lists of other abusive behaviors of toxic narcissists. I actually got the shakes and had a pounding heart for hours when it all dawned. She sat in the other room looking haughty while I laid in fetal position. Now I don’t try to reason or be heard, it’s a relief not to try anymore. I just humor her day to day, like a cat.
Exactly..I started to even look for an updated picture of the bish it was so accurate.
The covert narcissist's greatest tool:
Plausible deniability
My sister in law had me fooled for 35 years but when she struck as my mother was dying she took me to the brink of suicide. These are the worst possible narcs.they cause so much destruction through their smearing and grudges. Run!
I lived with a covert narcissist who was a friend not a partner. She was exactly like this. Instilling feelings of inadequacy, stupidity and constantly complaining and trying to garner sympathy for her life relationships that went wrong. She sucked the life out of me. Her lack of empathy for others astonished me and her self centred attitude was something I had never encountered before. If things didn't go exactly the way she wanted, she went in the huff or got angry and abusive. Thankfully after a year of this I've now cut ties with this woman and got my life back. But it's taken me over a year to rebuild myself. Toxic!
Here’s a quarter honey. Go call someone who cares. Lol. The biggest thing I’ve noticed lately is that they stay stuck in self pity. I’ve noticed that self pity is pretty much the opposite of gratitude. My mother used to work me over with trying to get me to feel sorry for myself a lot. She comes in like look at you. You don’t have this. You didn’t accomplish that. Oh poor you. One day I caught on tho and I was like omg really? It made me laugh (ironically) and then I started listing off all the things I was grateful for. It just kind of dawned on me that day that she was the peddler of this stuff in my life. And I was too often getting sucked into her skewed perspective and self sabotaging myself. It was as if I had found some magic key out of her impossible maze.
In my situation there was always the tendency, but yeah, one day the selfpity began (possible B12 defiency) and it just got 2orse and worse. Gratitude was gone.
@@rondianderson4402 Yeah def I had many times like that. I found it very hard to find one little thing to feel grateful about. But down the line, I only really needed one good little thing to start the ball rolling in the right direction. They (narcs) make the grass look so much greener over there somewhere, and they make us feel like there is no hope for us, but really it’s not that green and there is always at least some tiny shred of hope. About as minuscule as it can get with narcs around seems like, but it’s still there. I think it’s a human tendency to have those self pitying feelings from time to time, but imo it is a trap to stay there too long. We all have times when we need to lick our wounds and understand the true magnitude of our pain. There does come a time down the road tho when it’s time to finally drop it. Mainly just Bcuz it staying there too long can become such a trap for us. Like quicksand. Def those of us who have had to deal with narcs would have the most claims to any self pity, but I just wanted to be able to get to some place where it wasn’t becoming habitual self sabotage for me. And for sure it took me long enough. I was close to 50 when I began to change my perspective about all of that. And granted also with a lot of working on myself as well. These things def take time and work and practice, that’s for sure.
I used to hear... excuse me, I think you've mistaken me for someone who gives a damn.