Answering Protestants from the Bible: Scripture's Big Story
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
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Please remember to keep all comments respectful (if you are a Christian, you represent Christ at all times) and on topic. Please, no foul language. Comments which do not follow these rules will be deleted. Critiques are fine, but they have to pertain specifically to the question discussed in the video- those who simply use comments as a platform will be blocked. Such is not a statement that you are a bad or dumb person, but that I don't think your participation will facilitate substantive discussion. I know some will take my enforcement to be too strict, uneven, or unfair- but ultimately it is what it is.
Thanks so much for watching.
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This is a sample lecture of fifteen (17+ hours) course/lecture sessions from "Answering Protestantism from the Bible." You can purchase the complete set here:
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Or bundled with the 6.5 hour course "Answering Calvinism from the Bible" for a discount here:
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To just get "Answering Calvinism from the Bible", see here:
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Here's the topic list:
1: Why Answer Protestantism from the Bible?
2: The Arc of Biblical Theology: Creation, Covenant, Redemption, Glorification
3: How Does Christ Purchase Salvation?
4: Justification, Deification, and Imputation
5: Justification, Deification, and Imputation (2)
6: Liturgical Worship in Biblical Theology
7: What Happens in Baptism and the Eucharist?
8: Apostolic Succession, the Holy Priesthood, and the Visibility of the Church
9: The Communion of Saints: Veneration and Intercession
10: The Woman: The Virgin Mary in Scripture
11: Now Mine Eyes Have Seen: Iconography and Idolatry
12: The Biblical Doctrine of Tradition
How long does it take to get the download link once I get the receipt of purchase?
Lutheran here, I really respect and admire your videos and your respectful handling of these disagreements. You have helped me a lot in growing and clarifying my faith.
Sorry guys, I don't know why the slides are so small. I'm away from home at the moment, but will try to fix when I get home in a few days.
Slides can be enlarged manually (with fingers).
It's ok. I'm small minded. 😁
Kabane, is there any material in this lecture series going in-depth on the subject of penal substitutionary atonement and the wrath of God? I know you've got some material on your channel from years ago, and there's a bit of other content from other Orthodox creators lying around, but I haven't found anything that answers the questions I'm trying to find answers for. I'm coming out of a Calvinist-Baptist background of around 8 years. Although I never claimed to be a Calvinist, Calvinist thinking permeated every square inch of the evangelical circles I happened to be in. I'm used to being told essentially the following:
"God is extremely angry and vengeful towards you. He is supremely offended because you have violated His law and done Him the greatest injustice possible. God hates you and all of humanity so much, in fact, that He cannot be satisfied by anything less than your death and eternal conscious torment or the equivalent. Thankfully, though, God also desires to save some and, because of that, sent Jesus Christ to be crucified and to bear the wrath that was coming down on His people (and, usually, *only* those people) by being punished under the wrath of God on the cross and suffering the equivalent of eternal damnation (although He, Himself, was not damned, he only suffered the would-be equivalent). This is why God can look upon you with acceptance."
I know this is a far cry from the Orthodox position, but I've no idea how to fit things together.
1) If Jesus did *not* bear the wrath of God on the cross, what happens to it? Where does it go? Does it just fizzle out or dissipate?
2) If Jesus *did* bear wrath on the cross, how does this not fall into what Jay Dyer rightly called out as a denial of the Trinity or an affirmation of Nestorianism?
3) Why is there no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood? I watched the BibleIllustrated video on PSA and the wrath of God where they suggested that God is able to simply forgive, but does not do so because it would not do anyone any benefit. It would be like a doctor saying to a sick patient, "OK - you're fine, have a nice day" without doing anything to treat him or her. But if that's the case it wouldn't make sense to say "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."
4) If bloodshed is required for forgiveness, in what meaningful way can that actually be considered forgiveness? It sounds to me more like "exaction" than forgiveness. Jesus, over and over in the Bible, tells us to forgive freely, without requiring payment. But God, it seems, requires payment and death before He (can or does?) forgive. It is all so very confusing and I've lost my ability to concentrate at work lately wracking my brain over this issue.
5) If the cross wasn't about Jesus receiving and satisfying the wrath and anger of God - what was it for? From what I've heard from Orthodox, it seems like it's viewed as a means to an end. Like it was the way for Jesus to die so that he could descend into hades and complete the harrowing thereof, it was also the means by which His blood could be shed which cleanses us. But the Bible seems to treat the cross as the end over and over, "take up your cross," "Glory in the cross," "Boast in the cross," etc. etc.
It is very difficult for me, at this point, to approach a God who I've been taught delights in vengeance and bloodshed to appease his offended anger, and who hates humanity for being the way He created them to be as vessels of wrath made for destruction.
Apologies for writing this all out in a TH-cam comment reply. At one point I know you'd put out a way to get in contact with you (maybe and email or a phone number or something?), but I've long since forgotten where it was and this is the only thing I could think to do.
🤣@@rustybeltway2373
I believe the whole video is vertical, since the intro video is filmed vertically as well.
14:20 wow! What a powerful point to highlight that when Paul states there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ, that the context is Paul telling Timothy to make intercession for various people. The church is called to make intercession on other’s behalf, to Christ, and if the saints are alive in Christ, that is still part of their role. And they can do it even better than us because of their glorified status and because they are no longer weighed down and distracted by the things we are.
What a beautiful channel you have. And thank you for starting and ending with a prayer. Unlike these modern youtube pastors of whom they should follow this example. 🙏 Amen
I assume they still pray before and after, and just not show it, but idk
Shallow jab.
I just want to say, Thank you!!! I can not believe how much knowledge you have and be so young!!! God has blessed you greatly! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hi, this video was so enjoyable and beautiful. Orthodoxy has beauty like no other. Yet, your typology frightened me only a little bit, because of my background. My family used to be huge Harold camping fans, a preacher from the 80s-2000s who was known for preaching typology in the old testament, and my father learned about the Bible from him and taught me topological interpretation. As well, he talks about (Moses and the rock a lot) yet Harold camping and my father are Protestants. The problem arises later in Harold camping's ministry when he started believing that typology could prove when the end of the world could happen, and he made many predictions for that date yet each time failed. My uncle is still convinced the date of the end is "hidden" in some verse somewhere. So, how do you prevent typological interpretation from turning into messes like these?
Just don’t bring typology into the realm of eschatology. Use it for Soteriology, Christology, Mariology, and basically anything else. We can never know when the end comes, yet we are always in the end times. Just trust that God has it all under control regarding eschatology. We shouldn’t worry so much as we know what Christ has accomplished.
It seems to me that Seraphim is answering your question in the video. All true types will necessarily follow the eternal pattern, which is the meaning of the whole biblical story. If we keep the general story as the background, thenwe are safe to explore specific examples. If we try to find things that lie outside of the general pattern, we'll get lost for sure.
Thank you Kabane, I intend one day to pay for the whole class
I promise I will watch this video😂😂 but I burst out laughing when I saw the length of the video and then you said it's part 1 of 17 😂😂😂😂 okay I will now listen to the video
I know this comment is long, but it's worth the read.
God completes His creation when His Spirit indwells with creation, especially with the soul. It's not enough for the Spirit to hover over the void of creation or over the void of the soul. The Father unites or communes with the soul through His Spirit. Disunity occured in the soul due to Adam. Reunion occurs through the Father's Son who brings their Spirit back to soul to fill the void in the soul. The Spirit can commune or tabernacle with the soul faithful to the Son. The soul then becomes complete at peace in sabbath rest with God. Shalom means completeness.
The Scriptures are replete with this understanding of God, the soul, and their relationship. God is relational as Father-Spirit-Son. The soul made in God's image is also triune with a core heart which wills, corresponding to the Father who wills, with a self-awareness or spirit corresponding to the Spirit or awareness of the Father, and with an intellect or logos corresponding to the Logos of the Father who carries out the will. The intellect or logos of the soul can discern the Logos Creator behind creation and in his revealed Scripture, but this is through images. Likewise, the heightened awareness or spirit of the soul can experience the Spirit in the soul through the tradition of contemplation or theoria, culminating into theosis or divine union. Protestant theology is lacking in the latter. The problem with most theologians is that they are not contemplatives. They know God through the intellect of the soul, but not experientially in the spirit of the soul.
Does this mean those who are not adept in contemplation are not saved? No, because children with trusting faith belong to the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus doesn't prevent them from coming unto him. Theoria onto theosis is more of a sanctification process, not necessarily a salvation issue. Salvation and sanctification are on a continuum. If theosis isn't completed in the faithful soul in this lifetime, Christ will complete it in the soul faithful to him in the next. The Logos disciples the logos of the faithful soul under his discipleship. He will bring his Spirit to his discipled souls.
The fallen soul's heart is ill and dying. It has ill will in contrast to the Father's good will. The ill willed heart is in a state of ill-being. In contrast, the Father is Well-Being. God is Being, I Am, Yahweh. Jesus said only the Father is good. He is Well-Being. The fallen heart needs healing. The Father provides His Son for the heart's healing. He has the ability to heal. Faith in him provides the facility for his ability to work in the soul.
Jesus told those he healed that it was their faith that healed them. He provided the ability and their faith provided the facility. Though he provides the greater effort, faithful cooperation is required of the soul. A patient can't heal himself, but a doctor won't heal a patient unless the patient is compliant with his prescribed medication. The Logos can reach the logos of the soul to bring healing to the soul's heart with the aid of the Spirit who heightens the spirit of the soul. Together, the Logos of the Father with the logos of the soul and the Spirit of the Father with the spirit of the soul can heal the heart of the soul.
However, the intellect or logos of the soul can only reform the heart so much alone. This is because the intellect of the soul is inordinately effected by the ill willed heart which directs the intellect to do its bidding. The Logos can disciple the logos of the faithful soul to reeducate the ill willful heart, making it willing, emptying it of its willful spirit in order for it to become poor in spirit. After this is accomplished, the logos or intellect must then rest in faith and let the Spirit through the spirit of the faithful soul finish the healing of the heart by filling the emptied void. The logos of the soul at complete rest (hesychasm) is no longer influenced by the ill heart. It no longer reinforces the willful heart by doing its bidding. The logos puts to rest its inner thoughts as images and inner dialoguing. It dies with Christ and rests with him in the tomb of the soul. This leaves the spirit of the soul undistracted by vain inner images. The spirit of the soul is alone to gaze into the emptied heart of the soul. There, in the emptied heart, the Spirit will join the spirit of the soul to indwell. The soul and the Spirit are reunited. Communion with God occurs. The logos of the soul is resurrected with Christ as it takes on the mind of Christ. Such is theosis in the soul. Such is God's completion of the soul at shalom, peace, and sabbath rest.
All this is in Scripture. Scripture is replete with it. The intellect of the soul alone can not see or know it completely. When the contemplative soul is in the spirit or in heightened awareness, it sees and experiences Scripture in itself. Scripture and the soul reflect one another. They mirror each other. Insight into one gives insight into the other. They are self reinforcing. The more one has, the more one will receive as Jesus said. Thus, theology without contemplation is incomplete. Contemplation completes theology and philosophy. Thus, protestant theology lacking the tradition of contemplation is incomplete.
If you wish to dialogue on this further, let me know. There's no substitute for the practice of contemplation/theoria. Intellectual theorizing isn't enough.
Thanks for sharing!
May you do a critique on James B Jordans book the liturgy trap and some of the stuff he speaks on in the end of his book through new eyes on chapter 19.
@nestoriancalvin4071 I would like to see a good critique of it, I think it's a little bit more sophisticated than you would think. James B Jordan is highly praised by orthodox alike and is not a chump and no one has critiqued it yet.
@nestoriancalvin4071 may you provide a critique on the liturgy trap?
@nestoriancalvin4071 Alright fair enough I agree you can't make a whole critique on liturgy trap in the youtube comments, but maybe a few points? I believe he also addresses your question here in the book. I'm not even saying his criticisms of orthodoxy are good but we can't misrepresent him and say based on his own biblical patterns of worship the stuff he says is obviously not based just on his own interpretation he knows the church fathers as well as anyone and has a very high understanding of history. So we need to address those claims on a high level as well. Like I said he might be wrong but he isn't a chump.
God places His image/icon (man) in His sanctuary (the world). Sounds familiar! Like what Catholic and Orthodox due with God's image(s).
Based.
@robertstephenson6806
Swing and a miss. Word concept fallacies destroy your statements. The word God has more than one sense and referent. Christ referring to God doesn’t connote a lack of divinity. You are simply ignoring the many, many passages in which Christ clearly conflated the Father with Himself; in which He attests to His own divinity. The Jews clearly understood He was saying this, which is why they “took up stones again to stone him.”
I and my Father are one.
Before Abraham was I am.
These are clear statements of conflation tempered by distinction (trinitarian language).
@robertstephenson6806We do call the Trinity one God, as there's one essence in Three Persons, but the Trinity isn't God by itself, the Trinity is God because of God the Father who is the sole self-existent (AutoTheos) source and uncaused cause for the unity of the Trinity and the Godhead, for the Distinction of the Son and the Spirit, and the source of every Divine Act. - Hence the formulation: From the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit. God the Father is the one and only God by this definition.
So, when we say "God" in a general sense without specifying it, we refer to the Father who has his Eternal Personal Logos, who is the Divine blueprint for all creation, as in him are contained all the Logoi which are the the uncreated archetypal patterns (They're not Plato's forms, as Plato perceived them to be in an ideal realm and fully identical with the one great impersonal Monad and they were fully one to him); Thought-wills upon which are created and after which are patterned the created Universals. That's why the Father created everything through the Son (John 1:3 and this mirrors colossians 1 too. But the idea of the Logos is also present in the Psalms, Proverbs or even the Wisdom of Solomon).
To say in Short: The Son is the Logos, the Personal Uncreated basis for all things in Creation so He's able to use His own Creation which is patterned on Him to reveal Himself more intimately (Theophany). So there's a direct interfacing there.
And The Holy Spirit is the "Life-giver", "Consoler" or "Energizer" and He is the Divine Person Who initiates, provides and sustains all things and renders beings' interactions with the other 2 Persons efficacious.
I'll say this too): both Lord and God are names for both son and father but for Father in the sense that the Father is “monarchy” that the son and spirit inseparably signify the Will and unity of the Monarchy their “indwelling” that is perfected by the son through the spirit.
the Father is greater than the son not by nature but dispensation and economic that he incarnated and that the Father is Uncaused (mode of origin and hypostatic relation) not by nature but the mode of being that the son enters into that the father doesn’t along with the spirit. the Son's Divinity doesn't change, he, the Divine Person, assumes the Human nature. - This is a mere addition. No change in nature to be seen here.
Paul refers to God primarily to the father as the God of Israel and the Word whom reveals to Israel the Father as also God and Lord that is divine attribute as a name which both wholly possess. The Word Lord is stronger language in the New Testament because it’s the name for Yahweh that is nobody can know God without his Logos not that there is such an order ad intra in the life of the Godhead it is the ad extra life of economy. That the son as Both Lord (One who rules and God one who Creates) this is what Theos and Kyrios in the Greek can mean for the Cappadocians for Both dunamis and energiai. Remember this as this is important.
The way the word God and Lord work grammatically for Greek speakers was different as I’ve explained for God and Lord. The Father is the only God in the sense of being the only “One, Arche, in his mode of being as unity and source principle of the entire Godhead) and Lord that is the Potential to over rule creation that isn’t eternal but by willing. That is through his Word and by his spirit which perfects the reason of creation by God. Same Goes for Theos in this relative use of the Adjective or function of the Noun (improper name) that is ad extra.
God the Father is the First among equals in the Trinity and he communicates the Divinity to the other Persons without there being any subordination on the level of Ousia (Essence).
@robertstephenson6806the Problem is, you do not have any continuity with the Apostoloc Church at all. You can always assume and stick the verses which concernes the coming heresies in the Church to be refering to the Church Fathers post 1st century, but you will be imposing your own sectarian beliefs upon the scriptures and you will be not different than a Mormon, a Jehovah's wittness, or some type of weird Yahuah follower. Or a Calvinist.
But you will never be right amd truthful.
"The scripture informs us: "Jacob loved him because he was born in his old age (Genesis 37:3)". When this world was oldened and completely decayed, then the Son of God appeared - he was born of a virgin and he is the one who is eternally with God before the ages, before the Father he was "Declared as the Son of the old age" - St. Hippolytus of Rome, on the blessing of Isaac and Jacob
"The Word was begotten spiritually and in flesh, as God and Man. Therefore it was reasonable for the prophet to say: 'Bosom of father and mother'." - St. Hippolytus of Rome, on ths Blessings of the Isaac and Jacob
"Whom do the believing nation worship today, whom do the kings worship in the church, if not Christ, by whose name they are saved, as the word [of God] (Christ) cries out through the mouth of Isaiah:
"Those who will be my servants, let them be called a new name, and let this name be blessed upon the earth. Let them bless the true God, and those who swear by heaven, let them swear by the true God (Isaiah 65:15-16). And again he will say: "Behold, those who will be my servants, They will eat, but you shall be hungry; Behold, those who will be servants unto me shall rejoice in prosperity, but you will inherit shame and mourn with a heavy heart (Isaiah 65:13-14)"
...Isaac's promise was fulfilled upon the Savior; To the fleshly brothers, he appeared as Lord and Master, so that they worshiped him as the King. That's why he said: "Cursed be the one who curse you and blessed be the one who bless" - St. Hippolytus of Rome, on the blessings of Isaac and Jacob
@robertstephenson6806“Wherefore also I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, ALONG WITH THE EVERLASTING AND HEAVENLY JESUS CHRIST, THY BELOVED SON, with Whom, to Thee, and the Holy Ghost (or in the Holy Ghost), BE GLORY BOTH NOW AND TO ALL COMING AGES. Amen."
**__-ST. POLYCARP OF SMYRNA (CHAPTER XIV OF THE MARTYRDOM OF POLYCARP, CIRCA 150-160 AD)__**
“The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their Religion from Jesus the Messiah; and He is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that GOD CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and CLOTHED HIMSELF WITH FLESH; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man.”
**__-ST. ARISTIDES (CHAPTER II OF THE APOLOGY, CIRCA 120-130 AD)__**
@robertstephenson6806“But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (nous kai logos) of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence, for from the beginning, God, Who is the eternal mind [nous], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [logikos]; but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. The prophetic Spirit also agrees with our statements. ‘The Lord,’ it says, ‘made me, the beginning of His ways to His works.’
The Holy Spirit Himself also, which operates in the prophets, we assert to be an effluence of God, flowing from Him, and returning back again like a beam of the sun. Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists? Nor is our teaching in what relates to the divine nature confined to these points; but we recognise also a multitude of angels and ministers, whom God the Maker and Framer of the world distributed and appointed to their several posts by His Logos, to occupy themselves about the elements, and the heavens, and the world, and the things in it, and the goodly ordering of them all.”
**__-ST. ATHENAGORAS OF ATHENS, (CHAPTER X OF A PLEA FOR THE CHRISTIANS, CIRCA 175-180 AD)__**
Sola gratia!
James 2
Fun story, except the Bible.