I live in a semi-suburban area and purchased candy for Halloween. No trick-or-treaters came at all. What Citarella says about the breakdown of social infrastructure rings true
@@zackamania6534 Its a culture of paranoia, existing within a mercenary cuture. Mass shootings, random acts of violence. Even during the worst periods of the 20th century they couldn't have imagined terrorist attacks like the one targeting Hispanics in Texas. Trump is now expanding merc ware fare. It'll only become more and more irrational.
We had our neighbors daughter walk our dog. Her competition was the college student studying to be a vet down the street. Now we have rover. It's completely broken. Rover not society, though neighborhood social structure is on its way.
leftist articulating a positive vision is one of the most important points for me. very few voices in the indie left media space do anything other than point out how bad everything is, and while that is important, it cant be the only thing we fill our heads with.
What? Just cuz you are too bunk for difficult thought does not mean anyone else is. People can say negatives and be positive, you are just dismissive 😊
@@bobolishis7 Not really. Anyone can identify problems. If you don't have the ability to articulate solutions, you're kinda' worthless lol. I'd highly suggest people think about real-world (not fantasy) solutions, regardless of your political leanings.
Trump will literally do NOTHING for the working class. A MAGA judge has already banned overtime pay hahaha. He just knows MAGA love big crowds and lots of noise and they ignore everything else!
Trump will literally do NOTHING for the working class. A MAGA judge has already banned overtime pay hahaha. He just gives his supporters flashy lights and big noise and they ignore any detail.
I started this pod on my phone without reading about the episode and was glad to hear Joshuas voice. Novara Media USA with him at the helm would be great!
My father (both in the 20s) was a staunch Conservative and believed that the average man was too stupid to vote. He believed you needed both wealth and education to qualify for full enfranchisement. Weird how times change.
Most people support policies that they think would lead to the outcomes they desire regardless of if it contrasts with their other ideologies, it's just human nature I think.
Memes are just the modern version of the political cartoon. They've been around forever. The difference wasn't the method, it was the ability of everyone to be able to contribute to it instead of just the legacy media
Exactly, but it’s more than an image… the image is just an advanced and condensed way to transmit a vector of information. If rhe meme is true than its effect will be good if it’s a lie it will be ugly. Image memes brought down the ancient regime in France as but narrative memes were revolutionary before that. The gospel /good news was an oral meme that brought down Rome
This interview opened my eyes to lots of contemporary ideas and trends that I've kind of not really considered before. One of my favourite videos from Novara in the last five years, love your work.
The difficulty with citing neoliberalism as the model subscribed to by some of the right is that it simply does not describe any economic system that has ever existed, and there no basis for its existence in future. Insofar as neoliberalism appeals to markets, it is simply a form of economic utopianism. There never has been a time at which capitalism was generally based on markets. Rather, it has always relied heavily on the state on one side and concentrated capital that is effectively immune to market forces on the other. The appeal to markets is essentially ideological, in the sense that it holds up an ideal that cannot be fulfilled, but is appealing because of its apparent appeal to a form of fairness and its implication that individuals can play an effective role (by having a great idea, saving up, working hard, etc.). If the left accepts this as model anyone is really aiming to implement, they are both deceiving themselves and ignoring the reality of the intimate connection between concentrated economic power (of which Musk, Zuckerberg, Buffett, etc. are the embodiment) and the state. The Left's focus should be on, on the one had, exposing this and similar myths and, on the other, organising to actively resist.
This seems like an example of people on the left not really engaging with the argument. You have a point in your head that you want to communicate about how capitalism is actually built on the state instead of markets but you undermine the entire meaning of neoliberalism in the process by requiring the language used to describe economic systems to conform with leftist orthodoxy. False conciousness is a form of consciousness nevertheless. And it is incredibly difficult to realize that you are in a state of falsehood and confusion if you need a particular lexicon to pull yourself out of it. This markets vs. government dichotomy you present is a good example of such an ideological tenet. You are essentially stating that there is no such thing as neoliberalism because it's internal definition does not match up with the broader category of capitalism that that you have outlined. But clearly definitions should be taken from the same reference point and language. So saying to a right winger "there is no neoliberalism" is just nonsense because nothing is actually communicated, nothing learnt. Just the demand that they should get on board with your base definitions.
This is partially right and very insightful, but markets are certainly a component of capitalism, which you wrongly assume to be consistent of pure monopolies. The British Empire was driven by a search for markets to offload surplus commodities. Large companies like Kodak are very vulnerable to market forces. Now the idea of a ‘free market’ is indeed propaganda. But don’t make conceptual mistakes.
Well said! It reminds me of the throughline of David Graebers' "Debt: The First 5,000 Years" - that markets are a social construct and it has been constructed in different ways throughout the ages and across different cultures. Do perhaps have any reading recommendations?
Joshua hits the nail on the head about how online politics has created a perfect storm for extremism and hate speech to flourish. Honestly I've been thinking this exact thing for years and it's so refreshing to see someone like Joshua break it down in a way that makes sense. We need more people talking about it. The US has become a neoliberal oligarchy and its democracy feels like a farce. We need to take a hard look at how online culture has become a tool for co-opting and watering down real left-wing politics.
Did we really think that the breakdown of accepted socio/political and economic life under the hammer blows climate change and economic mismanagement was going to be straightforward and just a case of political reform? It was always going to unfold like this. People are desperately attempting to solve a crises (via superstition, politics, cultural, diet, horoscopes, cults, golden crystals etc) which ultimately emanates from the economic mismanagement of material resources. People are inherently conservative concerning their own comforts and many still can’t imagine let alone understand the radical shifts required (which will eventually be unarguable as they get worse) to overcome current environmental/economic contradictions. You’ve not only got to get them to imagine a world beyond capitalism, you’ve got to give them a realistic road map which is better than the current moment.
@ What people think is possible and what is objectively possible are two two very different things. I would think it self evident by the blitz (money spent) and necessity of capitalist PR to placate the public that science has raised production to a level which could eclipse capital and capitalist production. In fact, I know it has - just systems science (that business has adapted to capital) could go beyond capitalist production. But the cultural lag between what the public think is possible and what is possible is significant.
And they think bellitling, disparaging, insulting and shaming people is how they gain the electorate ahah! These pseudo-left decadent bourgeoisie is proof that some people have education beyond their intelligence. They learn stuff but cannot integrate what they learn with reality. It remains all in their academic bubble... until they need to get a job and pay bills, and reality hits them like a ton of bricks.
Regarding religious theocrats and atheistic nihilists, only one of those groups is having children and they tend towards having quite a lot of them while the other only really ever has them on accident and with all the means at peoples disposal to ensure they can choose if they have children they really aren't having any at all.
Sadly I think your prediction is correct. However, I'd like to point out that what they mean by educated is having gone through institutions which are instilling an ideology with no grasp on reality. They're being trained to stay in their bubble. To follow but not actually lead in a new direction. The people they claim are uneducated, often have more knowledge of the world and everything outside their narrow bubble than they have. The 'educated' reject data which their approved sources don't hand them. They reject discussion in general. They talk at people while being incapable of learning anything else. They are no longer the educated, they are the indoctrinated.
Sounds remarkably like sloganeering on your part. Ironic, or what? The "University of Common Sense" tends towards the shallow in my experience. Simplistic bar talk, in other words.
As far as I can tell UK institutions (universities) don't instill any ideology at all, they barely teach on the whole. What I see is the middle classes parroting safe opinions to get by at work or socially, politically correct opinions. E.g a few examples being that trans women are women, questioning Bidens age during the 2020 US election and the Wuhan lab theory. The tides turning a bit, but you'd be lambasted as a bigot for bringing these up in open debate a few years ago.
@@philroberts7238 The education system of any nation is in essence their formal in do ct ri na ti on system and the people that spend the most time in that system, at least in the US, seem to have the most homogenous worldview. That is certainly not the end result of creating free thinkers.
In light of how Novara conducted the election coverage, it would have been interesting to have multiple, distinctly different speakers providing a more overtly structured retrospective on what's transpired.
The idea of "selected Vote" is as old as the Vote itself. It's the distorted greece principle. In the old greece democracy you could only be present on the Agora if you really "free", aka independent. Have to work for your income was not recognised as free. The justification is that only absolut free citizens can decide freely. Most democracies of the modern age had similar beginnings. Only certain "classes" of the society were allowed to vote. Democracy was definitely an elitist System for choosing a government and were forced to extent gradually to a wider range of participants. Today's voices to step back to an elitist voting system are mostly left and heard since the late 60s... Leninism.
@@lukiferzeroif it was anonymous and random they might be better than self selected power hungry narcissistic politicians left or right. Authoritarian elites can be left or right
While it is completely neccessary and fair to analyze and pick apart the failure of the Democratic party to assemble a winning coalition, this was a 50 to 48.5 win for trump. Nearly half the country rejected what maga offers.
Another important thing to note is that before this point, it was taken for granted by most democrats that the majority of Americans prefer democrats. The functioning of the democratic winning coalition was that they had the support of the American people, and just needed to swing the swing states. That’s changed.
@@diepie5144I agree, but it’s just the establishment Democrats and their consultants that don’t want their own populist policy that they run on.. so they drop it as soon as they win faster and harsher than the republicans at this point. foxes with the wolves
Most becoming religious is simply them embracing Christian value structures. Unfortunately many don't seem to be able to hold to a value structure without the accompanying ideology. You see the same thing on the left. Ideology all around. Beliefs built upon faith and assumptions, instead of being based upon information and strength of principle. It seems that society requires a common belief structure in order to stay strong and determined or they get lost and often go over the edge. I detest that fact, but until people act on solid principles instead of acting to impress their social circles.. there is no alternative.
If there's no structure, you will see pure, unadulterated populism. It won't matter what you want to do or whether others agree, disagree, or even talk about an issue. People can have a contest on policy issues but not have any investigation or research into the outcome.
I believe that this is a misrepresentation of what the speaker is saying. What he is saying is that there is a growing consensus amongst even the liberals that the uneducated people are not able to vote correctly and that they can grow a stronghold of liberal ideals amongst the educated people. You can generally see this in the way college students tend to vote for Democrats. But by not understanding the concerns of underprivileged or discriminating based on education, Democrats are going against the ideals that they claim to stand for and hence contradict themselves. This is a major problem.
These are terrible ideas. Nationalizing what now has become monopoly markets like Amazon or Google will destroy these platforms and stifle innovation. It doesn't solve the existential problem of having the rich who are too rich to sway governments, monopolies and oligopolies inappropriately controlled, a feudal corporatist system, labor disenfranchisement from private profits and from political influence. Furthermore, USSR is a failure of an economic system. What you claim about Planned economies is a myth. Planned economies don't work. Mixed economies do work. I can't guess what you meant when you stated that planned economies work. They don't.
As someone radicalised by the Iraq war and entered left wing politics on the back of it. My view is no. Not at all. We were still on-the-ground through TUs etc. all the way until after '08-ish. Then when it was clear that nothing would change economically, large parts of the left basically made a deal with capital and went all-in on identity politics. The SWP etc, jumped on the band wagon as a recruitment tool. That has alienated the actual working class.
That certainly depends on your life. If the opposition wants to deport you, deny you healthcare and generally worsen your life, they ate the enemy. If you are largely not influenced by what is going on, you can probably go ny with an indifferent attitude.
@@charisma-hornum-fries totally but while you organize against those positions you have to see those people as winnable to your own cause. Demonizing ordinary voters (not the people with actual power) isn't going to make them vote the way you want them to
Can someone explain how liberals are authoritarian in this context? It is just taken as an assumption in this discussion. I don't disagree necessarily, I was just not following
Merchant Right is very much a phenomenon in current Canadian politics however I see that QUICKLY devolving. Also interesting to hear host imply that urbanism plays a part in the shift to the right with suburban ribbon developement. I firmly disagree with that, as this kind of developement has existed for many decades.
I don’t really understand why this a big deal one way or the other to be honest. If someone named Jim by their parents tells me their name is Jane, I’m not going to check under a strangers hood, so Jane it is. I’m not sure how it affects me at all or why I’m meant to care beyond that 🤷🏼♂️. Getting invested in the semantics seems weird.
I care because a man can't become a woman and if a politician not only believes that but wants to actively tell people that's the case and call people who deny it a bigot or transphobe, then I'm not inclined to support them. There's also women's sports, private spaces and teaching this stuff to kids. There are loads of reasons to care.
@@alexanderfox-robinson4910 Do you really think people are trans because politicians told them that they are? Why do people need those private spaces in the first place? What is your problem with trans athletes? Aren't there like under a dozen across the whole world? What happens to children that learn that 0.1% of people may have this extremely rare condition?
It’s actually NOT more fractious on the right lol This is a better style than yall usually do though. Not pure lib propaganda this time. That’s an improvement
I love how people are willing to call others too stupid to vote instead of maybe double-checking the votes were not tampered with. I do agree that way more people need better education for democracy to actually work at its best.
The left puts its faith in the power of government. The right puts its faith in the power of business. Meanwhile, in the U.S., govt is owned by business and our leaders do the bidding of their wealthy business donors. Essentially, right and left are beholden to the same masters, the right simply prefers to cut out the middleman (the govt).
Does the left put its "faith" in the power of government? They have to rely on the government to enact more socialist policies ideally independent of business interests and clawing for power. However they currently don't trust the government to do that, Its why so many of the left didn't even vote at all in the US election.
The real Left puts their "faith" in the power of work to have a decent living standard, and expect the Government to provide security, education, justice, healthcare and curb the greed of corporatist vampires. That's where the REAL Left puts their "faith", but rn we're feeling like political orphans since the real Left has surrendered to the pseudo-left decadent bourgeoisie that worries more about immigrants that bring our wages down, and regulating "s3xual orientation" and "gender fluidity". The real Left never liked mass immigration, nor we want to see a distopian society wallowing in decadence and crime as we're seeing now. Our lives are already too stressful to deal with fringe bs and insane crime rates.
Intelligence is more about «speed of learning» than to what depth insights develop. So, point to general education. If the last two (-ish) generations were never exposed to knowledge we actually have - how on (this) earth will they imagine anything beyond our current reality…? If we tell people to «think for themselves» hyper-individually, but never teach anything close to philosophy - it’s NOT an intelligence issue. It’s a knowledge issue, a bit like in medieval times when people could not access a bible in a very Christian reality. That shattered because of broader access to knowledge, not because «people were stupid»… …not more stupid than we are now, simply not exposed to tools of thought.
You will never be able to persuade people so long as you refuse to truly look at both sides from an outside perspective. Most of what you believe is ideology and not reality based. If you truly want to be able to persuade, then you need to truly look outside yourselves and approach what the other side is talking about in good faith. The reality is not what you think, though maybe you're willing to discover that for yourself. Never seek to persuade when you're coming from a position lacking in information. First learn reality, then decide where you stand.. then you can persuade people coming from a place of logic and rationality which you've not reached yet. Until that point, you're talking points without it being tethered to the reality people are experiencing themselves. Talking points which require a lack of understanding in order to agree with or embrace. Until you look for context and nuance, you will stay lost. Ask why, about everything and look outside your current knowledge for the answers, don't just assume based upon things you already know. If something doesn't make sense it's because you do not have all the information required. Characterizations of the other side does nothing. They are not real. Listen to what they say (and don't cherry pick from the extreme fringe in order re-assure your own biases) Watch what they do, ask why they're doing that. You speak of education, well it's time for you to go to figurative school. Drop your biases and see what's truly going on in the world. You'll be surprised and it won't be comfortable to accept, but it's the only way forward for society. You must get curious enough to want to know what's real and what is just repeated talking points stuck in your head.
How about y'all address your host Michael Walker openly declaring that he agrees with TERFs and wants to ban trans women from women's sports? Preferably with concrete disciplinary action against him.
The only outcome for this is to have a trans-sports league, because trans women have a significant advantage over women if they transitioned post-puberty.
@riveranalyse My replies seem to keep being deleted/hidden when I refresh the page, but the answer is that he said that today, on his xitter account. (Not using the site's proper/former name bc it appears comments with that get automatically filtered out)
I live in a semi-suburban area and purchased candy for Halloween. No trick-or-treaters came at all. What Citarella says about the breakdown of social infrastructure rings true
Kids are all shepherded into “safe” Halloween (usually BEFORE the 31st) events at lame places like church parking lots or in small downtown blocks.
@@zackamania6534 Its a culture of paranoia, existing within a mercenary cuture. Mass shootings, random acts of violence. Even during the worst periods of the 20th century they couldn't have imagined terrorist attacks like the one targeting Hispanics in Texas. Trump is now expanding merc ware fare. It'll only become more and more irrational.
We had our neighbors daughter walk our dog. Her competition was the college student studying to be a vet down the street.
Now we have rover. It's completely broken. Rover not society, though neighborhood social structure is on its way.
@@zackamania6534You mean trunk or treats?
This was a fantastic conversation, I'm glad Novara is doing a better job of educating their views about US politics & society.
leftist articulating a positive vision is one of the most important points for me. very few voices in the indie left media space do anything other than point out how bad everything is, and while that is important, it cant be the only thing we fill our heads with.
This ^
What? Just cuz you are too bunk for difficult thought does not mean anyone else is. People can say negatives and be positive, you are just dismissive 😊
@@bobolishis7 Not really. Anyone can identify problems. If you don't have the ability to articulate solutions, you're kinda' worthless lol. I'd highly suggest people think about real-world (not fantasy) solutions, regardless of your political leanings.
@@bobolishis7 damn brother that is kind of a combative take
Trump at an MMA event is pure spectacle-while Starmer’s connection to the working class feels like a distant echo in a boardroom.
I think you're forgetting that his dad was a tool maker.
If the left weren't weird on stuff like trans and race. Trump wouldn't stand a chance
@@mikebassett9195if the population wasn’t so easily conned by bread and circuses we’d be living in a better country
Trump will literally do NOTHING for the working class. A MAGA judge has already banned overtime pay hahaha. He just knows MAGA love big crowds and lots of noise and they ignore everything else!
Trump will literally do NOTHING for the working class. A MAGA judge has already banned overtime pay hahaha. He just gives his supporters flashy lights and big noise and they ignore any detail.
For me, it was an eye-opening podcast, especially the idea of the conflict between social democracy and neoliberalism.
I started this pod on my phone without reading about the episode and was glad to hear Joshuas voice. Novara Media USA with him at the helm would be great!
My father (both in the 20s) was a staunch Conservative and believed that the average man was too stupid to vote. He believed you needed both wealth and education to qualify for full enfranchisement. Weird how times change.
Most people support policies that they think would lead to the outcomes they desire regardless of if it contrasts with their other ideologies, it's just human nature I think.
Memes are just the modern version of the political cartoon. They've been around forever. The difference wasn't the method, it was the ability of everyone to be able to contribute to it instead of just the legacy media
Exactly, but it’s more than an image… the image is just an advanced and condensed way to transmit a vector of information. If rhe meme is true than its effect will be good if it’s a lie it will be ugly. Image memes brought down the ancient regime in France as but narrative memes were revolutionary before that. The gospel /good news was an oral meme that brought down Rome
This interview opened my eyes to lots of contemporary ideas and trends that I've kind of not really considered before. One of my favourite videos from Novara in the last five years, love your work.
The difficulty with citing neoliberalism as the model subscribed to by some of the right is that it simply does not describe any economic system that has ever existed, and there no basis for its existence in future. Insofar as neoliberalism appeals to markets, it is simply a form of economic utopianism.
There never has been a time at which capitalism was generally based on markets. Rather, it has always relied heavily on the state on one side and concentrated capital that is effectively immune to market forces on the other. The appeal to markets is essentially ideological, in the sense that it holds up an ideal that cannot be fulfilled, but is appealing because of its apparent appeal to a form of fairness and its implication that individuals can play an effective role (by having a great idea, saving up, working hard, etc.). If the left accepts this as model anyone is really aiming to implement, they are both deceiving themselves and ignoring the reality of the intimate connection between concentrated economic power (of which Musk, Zuckerberg, Buffett, etc. are the embodiment) and the state.
The Left's focus should be on, on the one had, exposing this and similar myths and, on the other, organising to actively resist.
This seems like an example of people on the left not really engaging with the argument.
You have a point in your head that you want to communicate about how capitalism is actually built on the state instead of markets but you undermine the entire meaning of neoliberalism in the process by requiring the language used to describe economic systems to conform with leftist orthodoxy.
False conciousness is a form of consciousness nevertheless. And it is incredibly difficult to realize that you are in a state of falsehood and confusion if you need a particular lexicon to pull yourself out of it.
This markets vs. government dichotomy you present is a good example of such an ideological tenet. You are essentially stating that there is no such thing as neoliberalism because it's internal definition does not match up with the broader category of capitalism that that you have outlined. But clearly definitions should be taken from the same reference point and language. So saying to a right winger "there is no neoliberalism" is just nonsense because nothing is actually communicated, nothing learnt. Just the demand that they should get on board with your base definitions.
This is partially right and very insightful, but markets are certainly a component of capitalism, which you wrongly assume to be consistent of pure monopolies. The British Empire was driven by a search for markets to offload surplus commodities. Large companies like Kodak are very vulnerable to market forces.
Now the idea of a ‘free market’ is indeed propaganda. But don’t make conceptual mistakes.
Spot on.
Well said! It reminds me of the throughline of David Graebers' "Debt: The First 5,000 Years" - that markets are a social construct and it has been constructed in different ways throughout the ages and across different cultures. Do perhaps have any reading recommendations?
Ok, what is your better alternative, and what does creating it entail?
So glad to see Josh on here, keep it up Novara!! Doomscroll is also an absolutely amazing podcast, would highly recommend z
This was such a feel good conversation, two great personalities amplifying and playing off each other :))
Very, VERY insightful conversation. Thank you for this 🙏
"We live in a society"
George Costanza?
Joshua hits the nail on the head about how online politics has created a perfect storm for extremism and hate speech to flourish. Honestly I've been thinking this exact thing for years and it's so refreshing to see someone like Joshua break it down in a way that makes sense. We need more people talking about it. The US has become a neoliberal oligarchy and its democracy feels like a farce. We need to take a hard look at how online culture has become a tool for co-opting and watering down real left-wing politics.
Fantastic discussion! Thanks for the quality content.
Did we really think that the breakdown of accepted socio/political and economic life under the hammer blows climate change and economic mismanagement was going to be straightforward and just a case of political reform?
It was always going to unfold like this. People are desperately attempting to solve a crises (via superstition, politics, cultural, diet, horoscopes, cults, golden crystals etc) which ultimately emanates from the economic mismanagement of material resources.
People are inherently conservative concerning their own comforts and many still can’t imagine let alone understand the radical shifts required (which will eventually be unarguable as they get worse) to overcome current environmental/economic contradictions.
You’ve not only got to get them to imagine a world beyond capitalism, you’ve got to give them a realistic road map which is better than the current moment.
don't worry tat, depopulation will motivate innovation and change or it's core principal of constant growth will become impossible.
You don't have a realistic road map beyond capitalism.
@ What people think is possible and what is objectively possible are two two very different things.
I would think it self evident by the blitz (money spent) and necessity of capitalist PR to placate the public that science has raised production to a level which could eclipse capital and capitalist production.
In fact, I know it has - just systems science (that business has adapted to capital) could go beyond capitalist production.
But the cultural lag between what the public think is possible and what is possible is significant.
Great, thought-provoking discussion. Thanks
The guy in the first 15 seconds nailed the lefts view of the working class.
Lots of commentators on NOVARO have this view.
And they think bellitling, disparaging, insulting and shaming people is how they gain the electorate ahah!
These pseudo-left decadent bourgeoisie is proof that some people have education beyond their intelligence.
They learn stuff but cannot integrate what they learn with reality. It remains all in their academic bubble... until they need to get a job and pay bills, and reality hits them like a ton of bricks.
Chiming in to say Joshua successfully recruited me over the last couple months! UK
Love doom scroll and Joshua’s works. Great natural crossover here
Totally great explanation of exchange of ideas.
Regarding religious theocrats and atheistic nihilists, only one of those groups is having children and they tend towards having quite a lot of them while the other only really ever has them on accident and with all the means at peoples disposal to ensure they can choose if they have children they really aren't having any at all.
Sadly I think your prediction is correct. However, I'd like to point out that what they mean by educated is having gone through institutions which are instilling an ideology with no grasp on reality. They're being trained to stay in their bubble. To follow but not actually lead in a new direction. The people they claim are uneducated, often have more knowledge of the world and everything outside their narrow bubble than they have. The 'educated' reject data which their approved sources don't hand them. They reject discussion in general. They talk at people while being incapable of learning anything else.
They are no longer the educated, they are the indoctrinated.
Agreed!
You are 100% SPOT ON!
Sounds remarkably like sloganeering on your part. Ironic, or what? The "University of Common Sense" tends towards the shallow in my experience. Simplistic bar talk, in other words.
As far as I can tell UK institutions (universities) don't instill any ideology at all, they barely teach on the whole. What I see is the middle classes parroting safe opinions to get by at work or socially, politically correct opinions. E.g a few examples being that trans women are women, questioning Bidens age during the 2020 US election and the Wuhan lab theory. The tides turning a bit, but you'd be lambasted as a bigot for bringing these up in open debate a few years ago.
@@philroberts7238 The education system of any nation is in essence their formal in do ct ri na ti on system and the people that spend the most time in that system, at least in the US, seem to have the most homogenous worldview. That is certainly not the end result of creating free thinkers.
if a Strawman was an entire video.
In light of how Novara conducted the election coverage, it would have been interesting to have multiple, distinctly different speakers providing a more overtly structured retrospective on what's transpired.
Unless educated people see, that there is nothing to save anything...
The idea of "selected Vote" is as old as the Vote itself. It's the distorted greece principle. In the old greece democracy you could only be present on the Agora if you really "free", aka independent. Have to work for your income was not recognised as free. The justification is that only absolut free citizens can decide freely. Most democracies of the modern age had similar beginnings. Only certain "classes" of the society were allowed to vote. Democracy was definitely an elitist System for choosing a government and were forced to extent gradually to a wider range of participants. Today's voices to step back to an elitist voting system are mostly left and heard since the late 60s... Leninism.
The democrats had hoped that the Obama coalition would stay and they could govern the whole country like California with a single-party system.
The political compass had me pegged as what I was before I took it. A mutualist.
The Ancient Greeks felt the same about allowing the riff raff to vote.
They also used sortition: picking random citizens by lot to serve as representatives, similar to juries. See van Reybrouck’s “Against Elections”
"riff-raff" lol are you Basil Fawlty?
@@mattgilbert7347 proletariat
Prols
@@lukiferzeroif it was anonymous and random they might be better than self selected power hungry narcissistic politicians left or right. Authoritarian elites can be left or right
The end of the in interview is 💯spot on!
While it is completely neccessary and fair to analyze and pick apart the failure of the Democratic party to assemble a winning coalition, this was a 50 to 48.5 win for trump. Nearly half the country rejected what maga offers.
Another important thing to note is that before this point, it was taken for granted by most democrats that the majority of Americans prefer democrats. The functioning of the democratic winning coalition was that they had the support of the American people, and just needed to swing the swing states. That’s changed.
@@diepie5144I agree, but it’s just the establishment Democrats and their consultants that don’t want their own populist policy that they run on.. so they drop it as soon as they win faster and harsher than the republicans at this point. foxes with the wolves
The first ten seconds, lots of British people were saying that after brexit. Dare say alot of Novara media people....
Have you been persuasive with the UK farmers in danger of losing their farms due to a neoliberal government ?
Godwins law escaped containment on the internet, sadly
Those chairs are dope.
"bloodbath of a defeat" ffs
So overdramatic haha. Like the margin was about the same in 2020 and NOONE called it a bloodbath!
Midweek Downstream? Nice.
Most becoming religious is simply them embracing Christian value structures. Unfortunately many don't seem to be able to hold to a value structure without the accompanying ideology. You see the same thing on the left. Ideology all around. Beliefs built upon faith and assumptions, instead of being based upon information and strength of principle. It seems that society requires a common belief structure in order to stay strong and determined or they get lost and often go over the edge. I detest that fact, but until people act on solid principles instead of acting to impress their social circles.. there is no alternative.
If there's no structure, you will see pure, unadulterated populism. It won't matter what you want to do or whether others agree, disagree, or even talk about an issue. People can have a contest on policy issues but not have any investigation or research into the outcome.
Does anyone else get a Jason Schwartzman vibe from Citarella
The conversation is great but for the love of all that is holy please stop with the close ups of the interviewer
I don't agree that the idea of removing voting rights is a mainstream liberal view at the moment.
It's not only not mainstream, he's basically just making it up whole cloth. This guy sounds like a hack to me.
@grrargghh I agree.
obviously
Yes it is, have you ever heard your CNN watching parents talk?
I believe that this is a misrepresentation of what the speaker is saying. What he is saying is that there is a growing consensus amongst even the liberals that the uneducated people are not able to vote correctly and that they can grow a stronghold of liberal ideals amongst the educated people. You can generally see this in the way college students tend to vote for Democrats. But by not understanding the concerns of underprivileged or discriminating based on education, Democrats are going against the ideals that they claim to stand for and hence contradict themselves. This is a major problem.
These are terrible ideas. Nationalizing what now has become monopoly markets like Amazon or Google will destroy these platforms and stifle innovation. It doesn't solve the existential problem of having the rich who are too rich to sway governments, monopolies and oligopolies inappropriately controlled, a feudal corporatist system, labor disenfranchisement from private profits and from political influence.
Furthermore, USSR is a failure of an economic system. What you claim about Planned economies is a myth. Planned economies don't work. Mixed economies do work. I can't guess what you meant when you stated that planned economies work. They don't.
The online left that was started by the response to the war in Iraq has completely failed…
They were coopted by Obama in America.
As someone radicalised by the Iraq war and entered left wing politics on the back of it. My view is no. Not at all. We were still on-the-ground through TUs etc. all the way until after '08-ish.
Then when it was clear that nothing would change economically, large parts of the left basically made a deal with capital and went all-in on identity politics. The SWP etc, jumped on the band wagon as a recruitment tool. That has alienated the actual working class.
This guy seems to be making a play for the internet.
What if we just mixed nationalism and socialism?
Whoever the camera man - stop zooming in so closely on the host lol it’s not a great look
You could not join the NDSAP after 1946, so it is hard to call someone the cutzie party name. Please call folks by a modern term.
Good episode. Your political opposition is not your enemy.
That certainly depends on your life. If the opposition wants to deport you, deny you healthcare and generally worsen your life, they ate the enemy. If you are largely not influenced by what is going on, you can probably go ny with an indifferent attitude.
@@charisma-hornum-fries totally but while you organize against those positions you have to see those people as winnable to your own cause. Demonizing ordinary voters (not the people with actual power) isn't going to make them vote the way you want them to
30:53 Citarella explains neo-liberalism
Can someone explain how liberals are authoritarian in this context? It is just taken as an assumption in this discussion. I don't disagree necessarily, I was just not following
Zoom is crazy
Merchant Right is very much a phenomenon in current Canadian politics however I see that QUICKLY devolving.
Also interesting to hear host imply that urbanism plays a part in the shift to the right with suburban ribbon developement. I firmly disagree with that, as this kind of developement has existed for many decades.
Why does this guy have to ramble for so long before asking a question
Very interesting but the interviewer keeps on interrupting and talks too much.
Why am i listening to mewing reviews?
Is your message still going to be "men can become women" because that's an example of where you're losing a lot of people.
I don’t really understand why this a big deal one way or the other to be honest. If someone named Jim by their parents tells me their name is Jane, I’m not going to check under a strangers hood, so Jane it is. I’m not sure how it affects me at all or why I’m meant to care beyond that 🤷🏼♂️. Getting invested in the semantics seems weird.
Why do you care? How does it impact your life?
I care because a man can't become a woman and if a politician not only believes that but wants to actively tell people that's the case and call people who deny it a bigot or transphobe, then I'm not inclined to support them. There's also women's sports, private spaces and teaching this stuff to kids. There are loads of reasons to care.
@@Hinderzok but names aren't sexes
@@alexanderfox-robinson4910
Do you really think people are trans because politicians told them that they are?
Why do people need those private spaces in the first place?
What is your problem with trans athletes? Aren't there like under a dozen across the whole world?
What happens to children that learn that 0.1% of people may have this extremely rare condition?
It’s actually NOT more fractious on the right lol
This is a better style than yall usually do though. Not pure lib propaganda this time. That’s an improvement
It's very fractured. The party are fighting right now against some of trumps policies.
The right is incredibly fractured because Trump actually built a Big Tent while the Dems focused on college educated women.
is josh gay im lowk interested
How many times will this person say LIKE? Unbearable
Literally there is a whole website of other videos??? Why are you commenting as if you’re being held captive?
You started off this video with a made up position. Next.
Socrates
I dont want democracy bro. I aint pretending.
That lefty moustache/rollneck combo immediatly alienates 80% of people.
I love how people are willing to call others too stupid to vote instead of maybe double-checking the votes were not tampered with. I do agree that way more people need better education for democracy to actually work at its best.
very intensive talk. btw, did u consider to post a short version for Trump voters?
The left puts its faith in the power of government. The right puts its faith in the power of business. Meanwhile, in the U.S., govt is owned by business and our leaders do the bidding of their wealthy business donors. Essentially, right and left are beholden to the same masters, the right simply prefers to cut out the middleman (the govt).
Does the left put its "faith" in the power of government? They have to rely on the government to enact more socialist policies ideally independent of business interests and clawing for power. However they currently don't trust the government to do that, Its why so many of the left didn't even vote at all in the US election.
The real Left puts their "faith" in the power of work to have a decent living standard, and expect the Government to provide security, education, justice, healthcare and curb the greed of corporatist vampires.
That's where the REAL Left puts their "faith", but rn we're feeling like political orphans since the real Left has surrendered to the pseudo-left decadent bourgeoisie that worries more about immigrants that bring our wages down, and regulating "s3xual orientation" and "gender fluidity".
The real Left never liked mass immigration, nor we want to see a distopian society wallowing in decadence and crime as we're seeing now.
Our lives are already too stressful to deal with fringe bs and insane crime rates.
NDP isn’t left.
what a terrible pain this interview is, one has to fast forward every time this talkative 'journalist' opens his mouth
Coupla gay guys spouting academic mishmash. This is why yall lost the election 😂
This is a very low level media channel. Wear your badge in pride
Everyone was like "save democracy" and I was like....have you seen the average intelligence of voters? Don't encourage people to vote.
well... people voting has exposed major weaknesses in the democrats approach, so, yeah it worked
Intelligence is more about «speed of learning» than to what depth insights develop.
So, point to general education. If the last two (-ish) generations were never exposed to knowledge we actually have - how on (this) earth will they imagine anything beyond our current reality…?
If we tell people to «think for themselves» hyper-individually, but never teach anything close to philosophy - it’s NOT an intelligence issue.
It’s a knowledge issue, a bit like in medieval times when people could not access a bible in a very Christian reality. That shattered because of broader access to knowledge, not because «people were stupid»…
…not more stupid than we are now, simply not exposed to tools of thought.
@@musiqtee Don't defend the average voter. We can hear them talk.
@@DiscordBeing Well, I think I’m defending the average person…? Way before politics, democracy or not…😅
Is this comment satire? This point is literally brought up in the very first part of the video
You will never be able to persuade people so long as you refuse to truly look at both sides from an outside perspective. Most of what you believe is ideology and not reality based. If you truly want to be able to persuade, then you need to truly look outside yourselves and approach what the other side is talking about in good faith. The reality is not what you think, though maybe you're willing to discover that for yourself. Never seek to persuade when you're coming from a position lacking in information. First learn reality, then decide where you stand.. then you can persuade people coming from a place of logic and rationality which you've not reached yet. Until that point, you're talking points without it being tethered to the reality people are experiencing themselves. Talking points which require a lack of understanding in order to agree with or embrace. Until you look for context and nuance, you will stay lost. Ask why, about everything and look outside your current knowledge for the answers, don't just assume based upon things you already know. If something doesn't make sense it's because you do not have all the information required. Characterizations of the other side does nothing. They are not real. Listen to what they say (and don't cherry pick from the extreme fringe in order re-assure your own biases) Watch what they do, ask why they're doing that. You speak of education, well it's time for you to go to figurative school.
Drop your biases and see what's truly going on in the world. You'll be surprised and it won't be comfortable to accept, but it's the only way forward for society. You must get curious enough to want to know what's real and what is just repeated talking points stuck in your head.
Must admit I am far far more open to handing my vote over to technocrats than I have ever been before
I bet he was influenced by the Internet politics 😂😂😂. Before the Internet people had very few ideologies and philosophies to choose from .
How about y'all address your host Michael Walker openly declaring that he agrees with TERFs and wants to ban trans women from women's sports? Preferably with concrete disciplinary action against him.
Oh no. When did this happen? Not disputing you, just want to go look it up so I can hear for myself.
When did he say this?
The only outcome for this is to have a trans-sports league, because trans women have a significant advantage over women if they transitioned post-puberty.
here we go....
@riveranalyse My replies seem to keep being deleted/hidden when I refresh the page, but the answer is that he said that today, on his xitter account. (Not using the site's proper/former name bc it appears comments with that get automatically filtered out)
No