Break testing climbing Cams
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- We break test 6 very different climbing cams in the CamCrusher adapter for the SlackSnap machine. These broke between 8kn and 16kn with the slings breaking first, usually, then the wire. The axial would get bent and make the lobes look all messed up!
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Purchase cams at our new store! hownot2.store/collections/active-protection
You guys should break test ropes and slings, but here's the twist: try to emulate getting caught in a rainstorm while climbing. Soak the ropes and slings in water and then compare them to when they're dry!!
Great idea!
I can even freeze some.
HowNOTtoHIGHLINE ice climbing 😏? Would you guys be able to test ice screws too?
@@noah_9886 ooooo yes! ice screws would be very interesting.
@@noah_9886 That would be entertaining, but I can't really imagine a real-life scenario where a screw breaks before the ice it's embedded in.
I'd like to see cams tested with less than great placement. Like a tipped cam, a cam with only 2 lobes loaded, etc. I think it would be cool to see how much of a difference your placement will make.
Tipped out would be sweet
I want to see a screamer pulled apart👍🏽
when i build drop test tower!
@@HowNOT2 On that note: Are you still searching something to precisely measure peak-forces? I had an idea the other day how to build something with a few 100kHz samplerate quite cheap-isch. I'm gonna build a prototype soon, let's hope it works xD
You're gonna need a bigger boat. As you know, that crack test machine is too narrow and cams are catching on the bolts so the tests results are skewed. Let's see crack test 2.0 with a bigger crack. Love seeing the tests - keep crushing!
Only one caught the bolts, open your eyes.
@@goodbyemr.anderson5065 thanks for confirming the skew.
@@BrettGilmour skew you lol.
13:40 "This thing was made in January of 2002, so it is legal!" HAHAHA incredible commentary!!!
Also, I find it very interesting that the lobes just collapse out to the sides in order to squeeze through the constriction. Great tests!
Glad that joke didn't get missed. Old man humor over here haha. Thanks
I would love to see these cam tests done on a shackle that has a more grippy surface. WIth cams, first they grip the rock, then they expand ouwards, transferring force onto the axles. Example: super-glue sandpaper onto the inside surface of the shackles. This would be a good upgrade for future tests of cams and gear.
Your test "crack" despite it's seeming beefiness is flexing, contributing to the early slippage that is abrading the cam lobes and triggering failure. Outward lobe force is a multiple of the cable axis force. Ideally the lobes don't shift at all, locking into the crack plates transferring all the force into the on axis components until the sling, cable, or cable crimp/braze fails. Or the axle(s) bend destroying the lateral load carrying capacity of the cam. Much thicker crack plates, especially ones of cam lobe material or steel of similar hardness would limit slippage.
I REALLY want to see a cam break test in actual rock. I have never felt great about cams because they are never ever ever ever tested in real rock and thats what you put it in when you use it. I get that the steel is supposed to represent ideal rock but please please do rock.
I was just about to request that exact same thing! Also nuts and rock too. My feeling is that rock would break before the cam/nut but would be great to see some actual tests and know for sure.
Maybe some suboptimal placements aswell. Would love to see some horizontal crags with a little sideways pull because i almost had a grounder once because of this. (If you fall while traversing)
Simplest option would be to just buy two garden-pathway-rock-slpas and glue them to the inside of the camcrusher. That should be good imho, just two granite slaps, not too smooth, should do the trick!
The steel isnt meant to represent the ideal rock though. It is much much more slippery than real rock.
If you want information that is going to give you some peace of mind regarding cams, keep in mind that most lead falls rarely exceed 5 kN. BD Camalot C4 0.5 cam is rated to 12 kN. Your spine can only really handle up to 9-10 kN. By far the largest factor in what determines how a cam will behave is how you place it and the quality of the rock. If you are placing gear in dry solid granite using sound cam placing technique, your cam is going to be "super good enough".
There are a lot of people who have tested cams in real rock with their bodies. If they didn't work well professionals wouldn't use them.
dang at 3:40 there's a crack in the gray cam lobe!
11:12 "British Teeth" made me chuckle
13:04 softer metal cams are to try to grip more slippery rock better, sadly we don't all climb your lovely friction Yosemite granite
God I love this channel
Rough up the cam crusher faces! Cams normally don't slip out of rock (rock type dependant), it would allow you to test them tipped out too.
Would REALLY love to see some wires (chocks/nuts) tested and see how they fail! Great vids btw :)
This is great - thanks! I'm somewhat reassured that old cams perform so well. Have good slings/replace old ones seem to be the lesson. The cams generally meet standards even after a two-part test of first stressing them until the slings fail, and then stressing them directly.
When deformed cams slip out, that might underestimate their performance because they're slipping against slippery metal in the brace. OTOH, rock can crumble so who knows. Maybe get a rock saw and bolt slices of granite into the brace so cams are tested against granite?
Also you might think about putting a link to that Juno coffee here in the description so people can click through to buy and you get a commission.
I've tried the Juno coffee. It is actually really good coffee. And even came with a hand written note with my name on it. 🥰 Stay rad. Will be buying more.
Thank you for this amazing content, I always wondered what are the forces and I love the testing you do. Keep it coming!
I think that the cams don't get pressed, but rather they get scratched/grinded down.
I propose getting different reduction for the cams, this one is too slippery and small.
Mabye metal one with rough surface or even trying fixing one end with concrete block.
we are trying to get rock chunks to fit in slacksnap machine
@@HowNOT2 awesome! Looking forward to it
You should do this again but with a more grippy crack contraption
How does this not have more views?!
I don't think that's 20:1 pulley system, it appears to be a parallel 10:1. The winch still feels 1/10 the force, but each rope feels 1/20 the force. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The wide end of your crack simulator keeps slipping inwards, so it ends up parallel. A couple of nuts on the inside of the bolts would definitely help stop that.
He said the broken cam "looks like British teeth, all mangled"😂😂😂 wtf bro...shots fired.
He thought nobody was gonna catch that,😂😂😂😂
It would be cool to compare cheap shackles to the more expensive European made shackles, they have a massive price difference so would be interesting to know the RBS of each of them!
Gotta do rigid stem Friends over an edge with the 'Gunks tieoff'
I think this has been put forth before, but still: what you have on the SlackSnap is not, in fact, a 20:1 system. It's two separate 10:1 systems side by side, and cumulatively, that's still a 10:1; just the load capacity is doubled. The underlying principle is easier to understand if you consider a 1:1 system - i.e., a single rope. If you add another parallel rope, it does not make it a 2:1 (thereby making everything twice as easy to pull), it just increases the load capacity by two.
Mechanical advantage is easy to measure: take the end of the rope that has less force, and walk with it for a few meters. Measure the distance that you walked. Then measure how much travel the other end has made. Divide the first by the other, and that's your ratio. If you do this experiment with just one strand of the SlackSnap, it's going to be 10 meters of walking for one meter of movement. If you take both strands, it's still going to be 10 meters of walking for a meter of movement, because they are separate parallel systems.
So, more succinctly: "The SlackSnap has the power of a 20:1 puller, but does it with the travel of a 10:1 puller".
So I did some homework. It boggles my mind no one brought this up before. If I reaved the pulleys with 1 continuous line and pulled that one strand it would be a 20:1 but you're right. I have a 10:1. 2 of them and they don't double it like I thought now that I think about it, but they keep the pressure off the pulleys and thin ass amsteel I use... so I just limit what I amount I can put on my samples which is super good enough for what I have broken. We plan on moving to hydraulics eventually since we understand them now that we have done bolt busters.
@@HowNOT2 Pretty sure having (two) 10:1 pullers in parallel creates double the force of (one) 10:1 puller.
I'm old, and my brain is older, but you pulling on one of Bobby's arms and me pullin' on the other is roughly twice the pulling of just you pulling on one arm...
Hey, I don't know if you guys would be interested in testing them, but I'd love to see a break test on a quickdraw.
got some of those to break
What about dropping a 180lb bag from different heights attached to a Zig Zag on it own and paired with a Chicane ?
nice pinky nail 🤣
No i don't do coke. I pick my nose because I paint houses! haha
:( I can’t afford cams so watching them break hurts my heart
Slack snap break test the slack snap break test machine
I plan on it, when we retire the channel in many years from now. I'm going to hook it up directly to the big dyno and pull.
You guys are awesome. I assume you broke nuts already. Will have to find it.
Have you considered doing a temperature recording of the area the cam and the metal plates are in contact? I'd be curious if it gets a bit warm :D
Hey Ryan, I have a metric ton of very poorly stored slings from 1982. Want to break them? I certainly don’t trust them for anything.
Hi Leo Muñoz from Cúcuta... you guys should break a gri gri!!
It would be cool if you guys tested the monkey fist knots used in Elbsandstein Germany
1st sample - 910 - does the dbl fisherman with the extra strand through the barrel of the knot affect the strength/integrity of the that knot?
CHAPEAU Great Master!!!!! Very Interesting !!!!!!! Thank You_
Best Wishes.
Camalots had U stems?? Great video I love u guys!
talk about product testing... the first ones b.d. sold had a BARE CABLE with a sling sewn around that!
I want to see more of Bobby!
Figuratively and literatly
Wanna talk about how two of you work together?
yes, please do a podcast with Bobby and ask him if he will explain his methods of love making.
I'm lucky to get Bobby in front of the camera as much as I do. He likes breaking things so he puts up with my phone always in his face haha
Hey have u done a Metolius safe tech harness I want to know how strong are the harness loops
Shows you don’t need to worry about slings on cams unless they’re super duper old
Have you guys planned to test belay devices breaking point? Maybe trying a few classics like the grigri?
Those dmm cams are calling the dmm 4CU’s
I am interested in how hot the objects (cams, carabiners, slings, etc.) get when you are testing them. Maybe by using an infrared instant-read thermometer?
How about highline tensioning systems. Cliff edge tensioning, not slope tensioning.
I'd like to see some paragliding carabiners, old and new... Compared... Aluminum and stainless compared
Bobby with that tool
buy pulling that hard possibly it is trying to untwist the cable causing the twist in it
Least sexy cam show I’ve ever seen.
will work that joke into my next video!
I'd be interested to see how much less force it takes to pop out a cam in a downward flaring constriction
Could you break some stoppers, and then the wire rope loop without the stopper head?
yup!
I’d like to see a double vs triple fisherman knot in 5.5mm dyneema tech cord.
Also your videos on soft shackles are amazing and I want to make some but I don’t trust myself to do it right cause you know I mess stuff up I’m human it’s what we do. But I really really wants some for rigging. Do you sell them or do you know of anybody that could reputable make some for me and I pay them?
It’s funny how the cheap Chinese “25” Kn carabiners are so sketch even more so that that 18 year old cam haha
Im curious if you can test the cam after the sling breaks, before you completely destroy the cam.
11:10 BRITISH TEETH - ha hah you yanks :-)
I think this test would have been more fair to the cams if they would have bolted two rocks toghether and placed the cams in between them.
They slipped, does that really happen with good placements on rock?
Oh if I had more free time I would love to build you guys an app that would basically interact with your website like Mtn Project does with its app it’s what I do for work right now.
i would like to see nuts and hexes tested ...
I'm sure you don't want to mess up rocks at real crags testing cams, maybe you could get a concrete mold in the shape of a crack?
we did some tests on rocks in the middle of no where in a scattered non climbable boulder field.
@@HowNOT2 sweet!
Dude you should just epoxy rock on those plates so u get a much more realistic scenario, great stuff anyways 💪🏾💪🏾
Nooo not the DMM 4cu's their endangered!
I've never used cams before or owned any....Do most companies make the lobes out of aluminum?
Also the aluminum serves to deform a bit to the grain of the rock producing the traction needed to activate the cam mechanism. I would think steel would just skate across the rock without activating the cam. For the same reason nuts/chocks are also made from aluminum.
@@gagesilveira6694 Yes I was thinking that as well..The deformation properties of aluminum probably make a better traction surface then steel but you're giving up durability as well..Have any companies tried Titanium? It will deform like aluminum(but stronger), has a grainy, traction like surface when bead blasted but is stronger then aluminum. It's lightweight like aluminum...The only downside is a cost increase in my eyes. I would pay more if I got more life out of a piece of kit like a cam.
@Caedmon Swanson Yes I'm aware of carabiner material. I still prefer steel carabiners for my applications though. Mostly tactical rope work. Strength and durability are more important then weight.
I had to work this out in Stone 1kn = 16.0578 stone
Whats your take on the kong gypsys?
finally...
break a space net for break test #1000?!?!?!?
In the first test was that soft shackle 1/8th Amsteel?
5mm or 3/16th amsteel
@@HowNOT2 thank you!
Snack slap
This does not seem to be a good test of cams. Catching on the bolts ruins the test.
Have you thought about enable "payed subscription"? (or what youtube call it in english). I would like to support your channel by a micro payment each month that I almost don't notice. I do really like your channel and would like to support what you do, but I am a little bit to cheap to spend $10 each month.
$1 patron is the lowest option we have and unless there are 5 weeks in a month its only $8. Otherwise a $5 one time donation also helps. Everything helps and everything goes back into the channel. We don't have paid content because we want everyone to benefit from the effort we put into the videos or the books we have on the website. Those who can help, help and that is helpful. Working on a drop test machine that will rock! That's the next big expensive toy we are working on.
@@HowNOT2 I understand that, and that's awesome! But I wasn't thinking of payed content. Just thought that you can become a member and nothing extra happens. I think the conversion rate would be higher if you could just click "join here on TH-cam than go by an external link to Paypal/Patreon. I would've would have joined already ;) But maybe TH-cam take a higher commission?
This is not a good test. To narrow the test machine.
Can you do some tests on my ex?
I'm squinting even though it's a video...
safety glasses
They squint when they hear things break. It’s OSHA approved.
I duck. Works almost everytime!
No no i want to see some safety glasses in the machine.
Why does Ryan have a coke nail? He does coke?