Testing Climbing Figure 8s with Hard Is Easy
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Ben from "HARD IS EASY" collaborated with us after many of you requested it about his figure 8 video found at • Why Figure 8 knot is N... .
Learn how to tie figure of 8s like a ninja on @Hard Is Easy latest video • How to tie into the ha...
We pull tested both ways to tie a figure 8 and spoiler alert... it really doesn't make a difference. But it sure is fun to watch shit break! Let us know if you want us to collaborate on future projects and what you want to see.
👉 Learn and SHOP at www.hownot2.co...
👉 Best EMAILS on Earth: www.hownot2.co...
👉 SUPPORT US and get gear discounts hownot2.com/su...
👉 10% off ROCKY TALKIE by clicking www.hownot2.co...
![ทางเดินชีวิต - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ x อ.ไข่ มาลีฮวนน่า [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1f3wcG16dd4/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UNCUT] “ช่อ พรรณิการ์” ปะทะเดือด “มัลลิกา” ชี้หน้า สั่งหยุด! I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 22 ส.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cJ_z_bHnvIE/mqdefault.jpg)
![ว้าว!ลุงบีมแบกทองมารับขวัญหลานกันยกบ้าน [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.49 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Osihq1OAs-4/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
Hahaaa you used this beginning :DDD It was a joke.... :DDDD P.s. Thanks for testing this! P.s.s. I have a long list of things to break :DDD
You may use pulleys not carabiners
Definitely want more HowNot2 and Hard is Easy collabs! You guys both do such a good job. Love the joint projects.
A collab I didn’t know I wanted. Sick to see.
"Tie too short of a tail, YA DIE!" That's what I come here to avoid, thanks as always for the awesome content.
i didn't even notice that at first, the tails don't move an inch
My 2 fav channels collaborating?! I WANT MOAR!!!!
It would be interesting to see how a Yosemite finish stacks up against a normal figure 8... Great work!
My guess would be that it increases the sttrength by .2kn
So, very little. I think a yosemite finish doesnt add anything to the bend radius, but it might delay the catastrophic pinching that occurs.
I’m pretty curious about this considering I always tie a yosemite finish on my eight
In th-cam.com/video/QAr-uHd8h8o/w-d-xo.html it shows Yosemite finish is harder to untie. In vimeo.com/40767916#t=0m36s it shows that it pulls apart easier under ring-loading.
There's a separate video somewhere on youtube that tests knots too and the yosemite finish ended up being weaker than a regular 8 for those results
I agree, I always tie a Yosemite finish in my figure 8 when lead climbing. The reason being is that a number of years ago my "stopper knot" got stuck in a quickdraw right at the crux. I thought I was being short-roped by my belayer, but it was just the knot and It was a real pain to get unstuck. The Yosemite solves that (probably rare) problem and is a really neat way to deal with any extra tail. It seems like with that extra strand in there that it should give the knot a greater bend radius and thus greater strength.
Yes please. Collaborate again. This was great.
Nice collaboration! Stumbled upon Bens video the other day and enjoyed it a lot, thanks for taking it one step further :D
Great collab - really enjoyed watching both your videos. Over here in Europe the rethreaded double bowline is very popular as a bind-in knot, because it's a lot easier to untie than a figure 8 knot after a lead fall. Would be great to see how this not compares on your slack snap machine :-)
@HowNOTtoHIGHLINE By the way - the PayPal donation link on your Patreon page is wrong - while the link text is the right one, the link behind it always links to the donators own donation page and donating to myself doesn't make that much sense.
Thanks! I donate to myself daily when I work haha ;). I'll fix it.
LOLOL- "Why don't they call the overhand a figure 7!" Great humor, great testing with very interesting results. Thanks to both Ben and Ryan!
It would be interesting testing a figure 8 against both a double bowline and a rethreaded bowline to see just how strong bowlines are.
Great work. I love failure analysis, it would probably be difficult or dangerous to be close to the knot, but I think a laser thermometer on the knot would be interesting:)
It would be interesting to see at what point a figure eight would break crossloaded but with a stoper knot
I'd endeavor to avoid either scenario.
No Yosemite finish tested from the Yosemite climber?? xD thx for the video Ryan!
The collab I was waiting to seeeeee, thanks for the video Ryan.
I keep hearing again and again that soap is bad for ropes, but as a chemist, I don't see how. Since you have some leftover rope, I'm wondering if you would do a few tests where you wash a rope in the washing machine line 100 times and see if there is a difference in the strength.
Detergents break down fibers
Soap is bad for natural fiber ropes, but natural is bad when wet anyway. As fir synthetic it really depends on what synthetic compound you are using. Chemically the variety of compounds used for rope fiber all have different physical properties and just guessing that soap “ in combo with sunlight over time “ is the real issue. You’d need to dig in some chemical safety sheets for properties. And once again back when that talk started chances are the “soap” actually being used would have been a strong detergent on a low quality synthetic rope. Not even “detergents” used now are the same as they once were.
Soap (e.g. sodium palmate and no residual sodium hydroxide) I'm sure is ok, you can even buy products for washing rope but the concern is if I use some kind of stain removing laundry detergent what's in it beyond soap. Not knowing is good reason not to do it. I remember hearing about a fatal incident (rope access) where the rope was chemically damaged on a chimney job. The abseil/rappel rope and shunt rope were the same (2 halves of same rope) and both failed under the workers bodyweight. Look after your rope!
ropes break washing machines
johnny cigar By placing them loose so they wrap around the agitator would be a yes (even if you tied the tails together). but one would place in a knit drawbag wouldn’t one (similar for how you wash linens) no? Or the overhand slip knot chain method like used on power cords, but then how clean would the rope really get?
That intro!!! 😂 thanks for doing these tests 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Can we just appreciate how stretchy climbing ropes are.
My half ropes are specified for 33% dynamic stretch (and that’s with only a 50kg test mass). It’s always a bit scary when you’ve climbed 40 or 50m and you realize that you’d easily “fall” >10m just from rope stretch alone. On the other hand it makes you stop worrying about being half a meter above the last quickdraw or using 60cm alpine slings. And of course it makes for a nice, soft catch.
When I did CSR my one buddy always did a safety knot with his tail after making finger eights. We used them for everything though. Anchors, belays, main line systems. I’m a big fan of them. Thanks for the great content as always.
Just seeing this channel; love the content. When I first learned climbing I was always taught to tie stopper knots at the end of the tail to keep the figure 8 from unraveling. It'd be interesting if you were able to test the strength of the rope with stopper knots/the stopper knots themselves. If you've already done that my apologies for missing it. Cheers!
This is incredible. thank you!
Keep the dad jokes alive!! Lmao
DUDE! Great collab and great testing. Very interesting! Thanks sooo much! :-)
Id love to see normal cams tested in slightly offset placements! Like back lobes slightly overcammed with the front ones at a perfect angle.
such a beautiful collab!!!
i love both of your channels!!!!
Both of you are great I like the idea of collaboration especially when the subjects overlap!! Thanks guys
Great collaboration, thanks guys! 🙌
I completely thought this was hard was easy! Great Collab!
That "shorter" tail was still plenty long, would be interesting to see how much force it takes to pull a 5cm or 7cm tail through
I'm just happy to know that I have to be careful to not let the 8 become crossloaded, so that after that 24kN yank, the empty harness can still be hanging from the 12mm winch line I was apparently being belayed on by a bulldozer. Makes finding the pieces my body was ripped into easier if they have the harness as a starting point.
loved the collaboration!
MELHOR Canal do TH-cam.!
Melhor forma de mostrar para as pessoas não morrem por falta da informação técnica de verdade .
Ao vivo e a cores !
Obrigado.
Parabéns pela inciativa.
Collaborations with Ben, love to see 😎👍
This channel always makes me feel really good about my choice of DMM steel screwgates...
Thanks für this very nice video. It would be interesting to see some other knots in comparison.
What abaut tying two ropes together? Which knot realy is strong? Butterfly, Fisherman, Overhand, Figure8(straight/sideways), some more....
Got it, If I ever cross load 5,241.6 lbs, I'll die. Good thing no one weighs that.
You should give an updated tour of the museum of slack
Please test crossloading the strains! Like an Alpine Butterfly, but a figure 8. Pretty Please!!! Love the channel!
Colab was awesome. Would love to see an even shorter tail figure 8 so it actually pulls through.
I had this exact same thought. If the tail pulls through the 8, would it still hold some amount of force? Ie. 10 kn-ish. There's probably a video out there already, I just haven't found it yet.
I was taught to tie in the right way, which is also easier, back in the 70s. I was told the right way was 80% strand strength, and the wrong way was 65% strand strength. Apparently not so dramatic a difference in these tests, not that one expects nice round percentages to be dead on. I was lucky to be briefly in a club with an engineer who worked with the UIAA, and he later wrote their book on ropes.
I was a little surprised to see that most TH-cam instructors recommend not thinking about this knot polarity issue, as their main concern is getting people to tie a figure of 8 correctly at all. Either method will stop that sinking feeling, but it is closer even than I had been told.
The reason I was told that the one way was stronger than the other was that it was tied so that the load line's first reversal is around a 3 strand radius, and not a two strand radius. This is a factor I incorporate in a lot of knots, and there are some not knot ways of incorporating it also. But as your test also shows, there is more to it than that as the knot is basically unstable when loaded, if tied incorrectly. The thing about that though, is how by the time it blows, either knot has seated into a form where it has moved into a more advantageous position. So maybe it is the radius issue after all.
Would you mind testing a figure-eight on a Yosemite finish (figure-eight follow through)? Might be interesting to see what happens there
At 12:19 I was expecting you to say "so finish it with a barrel knot" haha
That guy with hard is easy at the beginning of this vid has a very good explanation of the F8 in his full vid - it will change your mind on stuff....
I'm only watching for the cat but the data is a nice bonus I guess
Mad respect for the 2 of you! What's the conclusion though? That it doesn't matter how you tie your figure eight, the breaking strength more or less remains the same?
The breaking strength remains about the same, but in the companion video Ben showed pretty clearly that the "proper" figure 8 with the load strand on the inside of the knot is much easier to untie when subjected to normal climbing loads.
Yeah lol
8:59 "Look, a scrunchee" XD
explains the times a fig 8 broke hauling a car out of the snow. never knew about orientation of load strand.
Sweet. Another groovy channel. Thanks for your work. I'm in Australia so I'm not sure how much I can support your coffee...
I am watching these videos to increase my faith in climbing equipment.
Love it!!
Thanks!
That sure does look like a 9.9 black diamond rope....I could be wrong though.
Thaks for test! And special for open data test results! What about ringloading for kalmyk loop vs holland bowline
Now double bowline verse figure 8
Yes, please do a double bowline. But consider that there also many ways to tie this knot (inside/outside/over/under).
Thank you for all of your work!!👍
I want to see the Yosemite finish with figure 8 as well as double bowline
Thank you for the video and knowledge
Excellent
Interesting experiment !!
I really wanted to see the strength of a figure8 'bunny ears' knot, where you take a bight through and loop it over the knot, giving you two loops to clip into. THis is handy for getting two independent loops for your two toprope biners, or to have a master-point plus a tie-in point.
My guess: each of the two bunny ears would be as strong as a single one.
I would love to see a test of the problem of rolling when you connect two ropes for rappel with a figure of eight compared to two overhand knots, greetings from switzerland :)
Use a double fishermans when connecting two ropes.
@@red90rover98 yes and no, works great but gets stuck easier, two overhand is aswell save
Red90rover 🤔 I wonder how well a figure eight would fare if the tails were on opposite ends like the double fisher mans? 🤔
@@heli400 you don't have the problem of rolling anymore, i hear people telling it's ok to use like that
@@staibock5456 I figured as much, because the knot would just tighten on itself like the fishermans, probably get stuck easier tho :/
“Didn’t grunt enough.”
So glad this ended up here!
Good cooperation! Jeep on going.
It would be super cool to do this with the SlowMo Guys!
I beleive the open source lab results are not anymore available on your website?!
Another one of your videos I would love to see done on static line as well.
Wonderfully insightful from both of you! Wish you would continue the collaboration: 1 + 1 = 3 (synergy of thought and creativity). Best wishes, and thanks! Fun to see two different, but equally intriguing personalities styles and approaches at work together! : )
When tying in with a fig 8 I always leave a tail and tie a barrel knot in the tail round the load strand. Done it for last 28 years of climbing and never seen anyone else do it (other than for industrial access work). Seeing that tail slip when loop-pulling I feel happier that it's not just a silly superstition of mine and it's actually a good thing to do. Maybe the added barrel knot is a Yosemite finish to the 8 ;)
One can obviously do that but it's not necessary for a figure eight because once pulled tight it doesn't roll - it might tighten by another 5cm (2in) but if your tail is at least 10cm (4 in) long it's safe enough even without this stopper or barrel knot
Everyone at my gym does this. It's pretty standard in CA. Mainly because the gyms have insurance dudes who don't know what the fuck they are talking about and think 2 is better than one !!
In a lead climbing fall, where is the rope most likely to break? At the knot or at the first quickdraw? What about sharp rock edges?
a knot will almost always be the weakest point of any rope, barring any other factors. sharp edges can cut rope under loads as small as body-weight in the right conditions
Great job and very interesting
Could you pls test the figure of 9? and figure of 8 with the tail re-threaded?
I suspect that the tail re-threaded will make the know much stronger - as it will make the bend radius of the load strand larger
Great stuff!
I would like to see you test normal paracord with various configurations and knots. I would also like to see variant brands tested, from the perceived best to the stretchiest. I would like it compared to dyneema of a comparable diameter and or strength.
If you double a loop for instance is that twice the strength? Triple. hold it in a web-lock?
Nets would be really hard to test. However, ...
I love figure 7!
Don't leave the blade exposed at any time. Your cat may have jumped on that stool :)
'cross loading' the figure eight is called 'ring loading'
Good collab!
Great job 👍💯
You haven't done the zeppelin bend yet ?? I went through the excel and couldn't find it. Also you can try the zeppelin loop. It would be interesting to see how it compares. Also interesting to see how easy/hard it would be to undo afterwards. Thanks a lot guys
You have an old guidebook for Sächsische Schweiz on your shelf? wow, how comes that?
Watching the cross load was interesting i knew that they roll out but would you do different ways people join ropes for rappel. Euro death, double fish, figure 8?
Breaking or pulling out some pitons, knife blades, arrows would be cool to see!
do you have a breaking test of figure 8 vs bowline?
Do a loop with a figure 9 and do the crossload test again...
Where can I see the Spreadsheet with all the data?
I expected the rope wit figure 8 to loose 25-30% of it's strength as they say in most literature, but in these tests it surprisingly lost around 45%. How can you explain tis disparity?
On the last figure 8 knot test, I think you should cut the loop and than test just the knot. In your way, you were testing double rope ( one with the knot, and the other without it ). Otherwise, great video. Keep working 👍
Wouldn’t tying a “stop knot” or “safety knot” stop the tails from sliding if you cross load a figure 8 ?
I would like to see what you can load the rope and still untie it (without a sledge).
how strong is a double bowline knot vs. a figure eight knot
Dude, now you got to try to untie those knots!
How about a two-loop figure eight versus a figure eight?
So much curiosity about other knots, and ropes... Will the slack snap break 3/4” amsteel + with class II eyes splice?
Could you test a double bowline which is many peoples second choice, or at least the other option.
Can we see a Figure 8 vs Figure 9 break test? I was originally taught a figure 9 only reduces rope strength by 9% vs a Figure 8 reducing it in the 20%. Why does noone use/teach the Figure 9?
I was taugh not to tighten the fig. 8 knot too much, as an important shock absorber when trad climbing. Could You do a drop test and compare impact forces generated in a system with the falling mass attached by a tightened and an untightened knot, both with the load strand on top and in the middle of the knot? Easy untying is cool, but not pulling a piece sounds cooler. And since the knot is equally strong when done "right" and "wrong", let's see how much load can it absorb! Finally, thanks for doing what You do, it helps in building awareness, wich is key to safe climbing. Keep it up!
I don't see how the shock absorption of a knot getting tighter would be significant compared to the stretching of the whole rope from you to the belayer.
@@Jona69 think of a worst case scenario, high friction rope zigzag, weak peace placement, bad fall factor or the above combined. If a particular peace, nut for example, could hold say 1,2 kN of force, and even a small whipper could rip it from the wall. In that case if a tightening knot could take even 0,2kN than it could make a difference. 0,2kN is 20kg of force, that's probably about the highest you can tighten a knot by hand. Look at the lead fall forces video by HNTS - fall forces are the highest at quickdraws, and with trad gear you really want to reduce the impact as much as possible, even if it's just a few percent, it could still be worth a shot.
Love the intro.
I wanna see how quick the loaded rope parts when touched with a sharp blade
At what point does the fig-8 loop fold over? 23kN is really high. If the folds at a force that's also really high, it might not be something to worry about in the real world?
I'm also super intrigued, it didn't even undo with short tail at 23kN. Wouldn't just longer tail or backup knot make it very useful?
I think the problem is that a lot of small chock even with low forces can undo it with time
Can you test jay iii Edelrid harness. They told that it's better hold the figure 8 un the central loop. Not like always we do