As someone that's still new to DCC, I found this EXTREMELY well presented. Seeing how it's described in text just didn't seem to make sense to me, but seeing it explained like this on a graph makes it very easy to understand. Thank you so much.
That was exactly what I needed to know. Seems like most videos start with identical locomotives from the same manufacturer, and if speed matching is required, it’s mentioned only in passing. Thank you!
Thanks for this video on speed matching, Cam. It's a very important topic for those of us who wish to run our diesels in multiple-unit consists, as I do. I use JMRI to set the min, mid, and max values, but I still find the whole process of getting the diesels to run at the same speeds to be challenging and not much fun. I appreciate it when 2 identical diesels with identical decoders run well together right out of the box, but that doesn't happen very often. ...Roy
Thanks, Roy! I agree, it's not very fun. I even find that if I speed match locomotives together and then change other qualities like load compensation, I have to speed match all over again. So it's sort of tedious. Like you said, it's much more fun when locomotives run perfectly out of the box. -Cam
you would likely find in a true consist the 40-2's would likely be the shunters and wouldn't provide power at all you would likely running ace's as the drive unit and the 40-2's tow alongs or pushers
Great video! So refreshing to see a video with a stable camera, clear voice and knowledgeable person. I watched six videos prior to this one on consist and not a single one mention speed matching and their content was horrible.
Thanks for this video. You explained it very well. I have a Digitrax system and after all these years I will now be able to speed match quite a few of my locos. Thanks again.
Great video, I decided to attempt speed matching today. I’m pretty new to DCC, but after spending a couple of hours adjusting CVs with the engines in consist I was able to get them to run together perfect at certain speed steps. One is a sound equipped engine and one is just regular DCC so they were WAY off from one another initially.
Great video on speed matching through the main common cv's. We are new to DCC using Digitrax Empire Builder. Seems like there are a million cv's and still learning how to control them but this video certainly helped dumb it down for us.
This info is wonderful! Don’t apologize for the detail. This is very helpful to me. I have 3 units to match including an A,and 2 B motorized from the same mfg where the second B unit is much slower. Thank you so much! Ted
i have to say its realtively easy to speed match locos once you get the gist of it. The video is nicely done. Good explanation and clear voice. my only problem right now will be to speed match EVERY single loco i have to match. (i have mainly european since im living in germany.) this will be a pain in the a.... but i want it since every loco should be able to run with any other loco. at least the european i wont mix them with the americans i have since i either run european or american. So far ive been extremely lucky and actually have 5 different double header consist that just run together for now. no programming required despite it being different decoders in brand AND age. i even have an old selectrix decoder with only 14 speedsteps able to run with a ESU DCC with 128 speed steps without much of a fuss. But your explanation will help me greatly in matching everyone of them together. Thx for that
Brilliant the best explanation I have seen of how to manipulate / organise speed settings and control. IT seems obvious to me from your layout you concentrate on control and electrics rather than model making. More explanation like that on how systems function electrically I could do with.
Worked for me. Um understood concept right off the bat... You have a talent for making the 'hard stuff' easily understandable. Also appreciated the white board teaching aid. Keep going mate, your killing it!!
Excellent video! I'm just getting ready to upgrade from the Bachmann EZ Command system to the NCE power cab, and speed matching was a mystery to me. This video is easy to follow, your audio is clear and easy to hear, and the instruction is perfect. I now understand perfectly what I need to do to do basic speed matching of my locos. Thank you!
I started with the EZ Command too, idk why they're marketed to people who want to do DCC stuff, all it does is let you controll speed, direction, and a couple sound buttons. They suck lol
Awesome video mate this is something I’ve wanted to sort out with my locos for a long time and had no idea how to do it. Explained in a way I was easily able to understand so thanks again. 👍👍
Very good video! Though, I've been into model railroading for 45 years I only recently got into DCC. So this is great that you simplified this, a little, by showing the three CV points along the curve, for speed matching.
Have to say this is why i love the railpro system. Speed matched auto and independent power increased on each loco. If the lead is struggling it bumps the power on all other locos in the train.
Thanks Cam, this was a good start for me. My first two SD70’s ran so smooth and were practically speed match straight outta the box, bought a third SD70 a year later (today), wasn’t even close in speed to the first two! Also a whole different story, but they were Walther’s and the new 3rd SD70 has a completely different sound board, much better but different.... ESU in the new SD70, Soundtraxx in the older yet same model of the first two!! Go figure.
Outstanding video young man. I think you've taught an old dog a new trick. Keep up the good work and I look forward to watching many more of your videos. Using my newly acquired AccuTrack Speedometer, this should make this normally tedious process a little more quicker and enjoyable.
Very informative video.... I'm about to start using JMRI and a computer to manage the layout and programming. Perhaps you can do a video of adding the locomotives in JMRI and programming those values for those that haven't done it yet. Thanks - Steve
Thanks, Steve! And that would be a great video to do. I actually don't have JMRI set up on any of my computers yet. That's something that I plan to do, so at that time I will make a video. -Cam
The way I speed match my locomotives the fast way is using JMRI. There is a speed table with the 3 settings on it. Setting one is set to zero, mid is set to 128 and the final setting is set at 255. So when you open up the CV table CV2 always equals 1, CV6 always equal 128 and CV5 always equals 255. Only less than 5 minutes to speed match each locomotive. This is done when you setup the locomotive in JMRI.
I was pulling my hair out trying to speed match my locos. I will be trying this new way very soon. Thanks for the great video!! I'll keep watching for more videos. I just subscribed to your channel.
I haven't been lucky enough to speed match 2 identical Locomotives yet. I just did a pair that I had to needed very different curves to each other, to match speeds. One pair even needed step by step matching, to end up with quite different non linear graphs on the ESU program. I imagine doing some with exact same drivetrains would be more pleasurable! I'm not sure how close is close enough, but any variations are usually only an inch over several feet. I think that's ok to short run at least occasionally as I try improve them, which may not actually be possible anyway. One pair starts at different times, otherwise perfect, delays both set for sound on. I'll try again some time. Though it's great we have the tech to usually match them up one way or another.
Cam,...have you ever seen the RailPro controller system for controlling consists? It is a radio controlled system like the real locotrol in the prototype locomotives. Whenever say, the lead locomotive comes under a heavier load to bear, i.e. steeper grade or any other impedance. Radio controll signals the helpers to step-up their power. The system is much easier to set up, as it is mostly all automatically figured out for you. It's more or less built into the system. There are some TH-cam channels that show this. Kpack and another video on, The Elkhart Model Railroad Club.
Hi, Ron! Yes, I've long been intrigued by the RailPro system. It's something I'd love to get into at some point. I still see advantages to DCC systems, but it's mainly to do with the proliferation of DCC products. Yet, with the way that I generally operate with my own equipment by myself, I probably wouldn't suffer at all with a switch to the RailPro system. Good suggestion. -Cam
its also possible to look at the couplers between them. If they are like pushed together then one engine is moving too fast... if they look like they are being puuled apart then likely one is moving too slow for the faster one in front of it. Thats another tip for this kind of thing
Cam, this is the best and most simple overview and demo of speed matching. I don't have JMRI but I was working towards that idea since I've seen so many videos on how it works, your video changed that for me. It seems much more simplistic overall and not a lot of changes to lots of CV's. I like most other modelers will be running multiple locos in lash-ups, that's fun for me so I really want them to match in speed as close as possible. 3 CV's and I can have them run very close in speed together. I just saw a video from Sparky107107 and his purchase of the Scale Trainz SD40-2 (Chessie System)right out of the box and those two match up very well. Will this same method work well with locos from different brands? And how will it work with two locos with different decoders in them? Thanks for your time and the video, dig watching your channel!!! D. Muse WTCMRR
Thanks, David! Yeah, this approach is very simple and quick, and it works perfectly. To answer your questions, yes, it still works very well. I should've mentioned that in the video, but the three locomotives I was running were all different brands and there were two different decoders: Digitrax and Tsunami. So this is a universal way to speed match because CV 2, 5, and 6 are an NMRA standard. -Cam
Great video I’m new to DCC was running DCS. Are you changing the CVs on the programming track or mainline? I’ve noticed that when my MTH Engines are set at say 5 they move like a 5 where my new DCC engines need a much higher number to equal a DCS 5. I’m not planning on running DCC with DCS but why do the DCC engines need a higher number on the throttle to get moving? Running new TCS 13:57 CS-105-B-106 booster
Absolutely! I frequently run consists of different models and makes. I mix Athearn, InterMountain, KATO, Scaletrains, and Walthers. There are certainly mechanical differences, but honestly the biggest influence on being able to run locomotives together is the decoder. I have a mixture of decoder makes and can run them all together well, but it would certainly streamline things if you have the same decoder type across all locomotives (such as ESU). However, it's certainly not necessary. -Cam
Hello, my name is Alexandre, I admire your work and the way you expose your building techniques and the richness of detail that is very tasteful. I would love to learn how to do Speed Match, but never quite right, I use DCC Prodigy Elite 10 Amp - MRC - MRC1417, I have ESU, TSU and TCS Won on my models. However I do not speak English, I would like to ask you this scheme if you have written, so I can translate. Thank you.
Thank you! I actually consisted them together so that I could change the CVs independently. If you program them to the same address/ID, any CV change will register under both units. I did a separate video on consisting, if you want help with that. -Cam
Cam, just got done watching for maybe the 10th time. 1 question for you, are the cv 2,5,and 6 the same for all decoders aand systems. I hace a nce power cab, and was wondering is cvs are same as you used.
Thanks Cam. Once you change the 3 cv’s does the decoder automatically change all the others? If not could you have a problem if you ran two locos at 1/4 speed or 3/4 speed? Would those be not the same? Thanks
Yes, assuming that the 3-point speed curve feature is enabled (it usually should be by default), changing the start, mid, and max voltage will automatically interpolate all of the steps in between. So 3/4 speed should be the difference between 1/2 and full throttle. Hope that helps! -Cam
So if they aren't 100% but are really close, will let's that 2 or 5% difference be enough to burn out the motors? Or are they going to be ok for the most part?
Speed Matching - Is this the same thing as comparing the actual prototypical speed of a locomotive vs that of a N scale (or what ever scale one models in) or is this about trying to get to N scale locomotives to run cooperatively with each other?
I’m on a old CVP products easyDCC system so it’s a different way of doing the programming and the way it makes the cv’s out is weird so I have never been able to match my locos
Hi, great video, today I just recieve my second Intermountain both have the same decoder ESU locksound, I will try to consist like that, otherwise I will use your information. Thanks
how do you get a single engine to run the same speed in flowered and reverse mine seem to be 2 to 3 mph different at speed step 25 it run 30 mph flowered but 27 or 28 in reverse how do i get it to run 30 in both directions. thank you. i have several engines that do this.
Thank you for this video, it should help. Do your locomotives have to run perfectly to speed match and consist? (like, no stalls in the locomotive) I feel like I've already asked that before, but if that's the case, should I fix it? (I remember saying my Intermountain has a wire loose in the rear truck) My BLI SD40-2 has little to no running problems, and my Intermountain ES40DC has quite a few.
No problem! I'm glad it's helpful. And no, the locomotives don't have to run flawlessly to speed match them. They'll get programmed in the same way that your nice running units do. So it's not like you're going to harm anything if some of your locomotives run worse than others. It's more of an unprototypical annoyance than anything. -Cam
Hi great video!! but I need an advise, I have two Intermountain SD40-2 with ESULocksound also I have my NCE power cab. I just read the CVs 2,3,4,5,and 6 and have the same value for both engines, but still run a different speed, what can I do? thanks
Great video, very informative. Just a question for you. What CV would be between CV2 and CV6? (ESU decoder)I find one of my Bowser SD40-2's runs slightly slower at about 25 (0-99) on a Digitrax system. Changing CV6 makes some difference but there's still jerking about about 1/4 feel speed with the unit mu'd with other Bowser SD40-2's (I have four of them). Thanks
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed. The only CVs between CV 2 and 6 are CV 3 and 4 which only control acceleration and deceleration, respectively. The only way to affect the speed curve between start speed (CV2) and mid speed (CV6) is to set the voltage for each individual speed step. It's easy enough to do with programming software; not so much on a DCC throttle. Hope that answers your question. -Cam
Thanks I ended up trimming back CV2 slightly to 1 and CV 6 up to 90 (Bowser defaults them to 3 and 88). That took care of the surge at around speedstep 25 of 99. Still some initial back and forth right off the start but I've seen that with real units when they first start so no big deal. Thanks again.
I assume that all three of your motors are of the same manufacturer and have the same dcc board. Does your way of speed matching work with mixed manufacturers? For example, an Athearn blue box converted to dcc with DASR board, and a walthers trainline motor?
Believe it or not, all 3 of those locos come from different manufacturers (Intermountain, KATO, and Athearn) with 2 different decoders (Digitrax, and Soundtraxx). So I would think you shouldn't have any problems with your mix of manufacturers. -Cam
As long as it runs slowly and to your liking, that shouldn't be an issue. Decoders use what's called BEMF to automatically modulate motor input. This allows the motor to run smoothly at low speeds and to compensate for any resistance it encounters. This is great for low speed operation, but when you want to create consists, it's advantageous to turn this feature down. Which CVs are used and how that feature behaves varies from decoder to decoder, but it's likely that the high CV 2 value is a result of BEMF being turned down. I run all of my locomotives this way, which means CV 2 usually is a bit higher (in the 5-15 range) to get the locomotive moving smoothly. -Cam
tk you good take on video awesdome work on explaning, but when your setting cv are you using a computer or just a hand held im running digitrax new to the game tk you
Good question! I was just using my NCE Powercab handheld throttle. I've used Digitrax before, but I don't exactly remember the buttons you have to press to change CVs. -Cam
It was supposed to be 2.5%, but in a few short places it's closer to 2.7%. That's only along the upper level mountain grade. The lower level still has a significant grade, but it's much more subtle (closer to 1.2%). -Cam
playing about in the voltages is a grand `idea though you aren't correcting the flaw by detuning 1 loco to the other you may want to start looking at up[grading the weaker units power to match rather than go in reverse and under powering the higher power unit/loco may be fix the pickups if both units have the same power hardware because it seems 1 has better power p[pickup than the other
I see what you're saying, but there isn't really any flaw. What we're doing here is really just syncing the running characteristics across a speed range. These are all different locomotives, with different decoders that come programmed from the factory a certain way. While some will have overall lower pulling power than others, that's often a combination of weight and gearing in addition to the actual motor. So I'm not extremely concerned with the maximum output of the motor because it's top speed is often greater than the prototype's. As long as the top speeds of the locomotives are prototypical and synced, I think it's ok to rerate the voltage down to a level that achieves that goal. But I really appreciate the input! -Cam
I wan't thinking of max power though by the indication of the speed step and likely output power you may not get them to the exact same power level, and trying to create a pseudo power profile defeats the purpose of what you are trying to achieve here.. even at half to 1/4 the speed 1 has more power than the other go back an watch your own video and you will understand where I was coming from in terms of actual power between the 2 units of mismatch power.. you may want to do a current draw on both units to understand what i initially said..
Ok, yes I think I better understand what you were saying, and I totally agree that it would be nice to upgrade weaker power units. I'm really not trying to argue that speed matching is the ultimate fix. The purpose of this video was just to visually communicate how to sync different locomotives to run smoothly together without pulling against each other too hard. Speed matching does not address the power differences, but it does take into account the other aspects of the drivetrain such as the gears and wheel diameter. That said, I do agree with you and understand what you're saying. -Cam
Oooh, I forgot to add that I think load compensation and BEMF will make up for some voltage derating in a situation with a heavy load. So there isn't a complete loss of performance when derating a more powerful motor or decoder.
Unfortunately I find your explanation will cause confusion to those trying match speeds. It's wrong to suggest that the CV values are directly linked to speed, as different motors react differently to the same voltages. The CV values only control the input voltage, and one locomotive may run at 40 scale mph at 6 volts where another will only run at 25 scale mph in 6 volts. The method is to adjust the CV values, hence voltage so they run at the same scale mph at a given speed step. So while they all start off using the straight line speed curve, you adjust the high-mid-low cv's so that locomotive speeds match, but the CV values will vary quite a bit (you made it look like you were trying to match CV values). Also the target locomotive you are using as you speed standard matters very much. That target locomotive needs to be only of your most common type that doesn't run much faster or slower than the rest of the fleet. Picking a oddball locomotive as a target locomotive will cause a great deal of headache trying to get the rest of the fleet to match it. Also I suggest that the start voltage be set to a voltage to a point just below where the locomotive will start to move. Having the locomotives jerk into motion at speed step 1 is not very realistic. I like to have them smoothly start rolling somewhere between speed step 1 to 3.
Yes, you are correct, and I see what you're saying. Around the 8 minute mark, it does seem like I'm suggesting that locomotives from the factory come with different CV values and that's the only thing differentiating them. Of course, if that were true, the answer to that would be to just program in the same CV values for all locomotives. So, that's not what I was trying to suggest, but it was a bit confusing. I started the video explaining what a 3-point speed curve is relative to a single locomotive (in which case the whiteboard does make sense), but then I started using it to explain how 3 locomotives might behave. I probably should've redone the y-axis and erased the absolute CV values on each of the curves. However, I think most people found it fairly clear because later I did explain that we're not matching CVs. We're matching speeds by understanding the speed differential between two locomotives and then adjusting the CVs directionally on one of them and relative to the other. I think it certainly helps to pick a common locomotive, but I think most people who would watch this video (including myself), don't have enough locomotives to have a "common" or "oddball" locomotive. However, it is a good point about picking a baseline locomotive that makes life easier when programming the rest of the fleet. I've found that I don't really know what locomotive that is until I start programming, and it's really dependent on decoder and less on the locomotive manufacturer. As for your starting speed step, I like how you do it, but at least for the locomotives I've had, that hasn't been a possibility without changing other drive characteristic CVs. For example, a CV 2 value of 1 might cause the lead locomotive in this video to hesitate and lunge in speed step one, but a value of 2 might be perfect. In other words, because a lot of decoder manufacturers program BEMF or load control to 100% from the factory, starting smoothly in speed step 1 is the only option. Of course, consists run better with lower BEMF, and that also gives you the option to start a few speed steps higher. I just didn't want to open that can of worms in this video because I had originally planned for this to be a multi-part series. Anyway, these are good points you make, and maybe I should return to this subject with them in mind. I'm also curious, you say that your locomotives don't start immediately in speed step 1, so I'm assuming that you have adjusted BEMF down to make that possible. If this is the case, do they always smoothly start up, or do they ever lunge when you reach the right speed step? I've had a lot of fun on my mountainous layout with cranking load control/BEMF way down because it really takes quite a bit of throttle to get a heavy train started, but occasionally when I reach the "voltage potential" to get the train moving, the consist lunges before quickly leveling out at a slow start speed. -Cam
As someone that's still new to DCC, I found this EXTREMELY well presented. Seeing how it's described in text just didn't seem to make sense to me, but seeing it explained like this on a graph makes it very easy to understand. Thank you so much.
No it was really clear. Admittedly it was the 4th explanation but now it makes perfect sense even simple.
EXCELLENT job of presenting a simplistic way to accomplish locomotive speed matching w/o a computer!
After hours of looking through the Digitrax Manual and not getting anywhere, you have explained it in a few minutes, brilliant, thank you.
I don't know who writes any of those manuals but I'll bet they all have masters degrees in computer science.
That was exactly what I needed to know. Seems like most videos start with identical locomotives from the same manufacturer, and if speed matching is required, it’s mentioned only in passing. Thank you!
Thanks for this video on speed matching, Cam. It's a very important topic for those of us who wish to run our diesels in multiple-unit consists, as I do. I use JMRI to set the min, mid, and max values, but I still find the whole process of getting the diesels to run at the same speeds to be challenging and not much fun. I appreciate it when 2 identical diesels with identical decoders run well together right out of the box, but that doesn't happen very often. ...Roy
Thanks, Roy! I agree, it's not very fun. I even find that if I speed match locomotives together and then change other qualities like load compensation, I have to speed match all over again. So it's sort of tedious. Like you said, it's much more fun when locomotives run perfectly out of the box.
-Cam
you would likely find in a true consist the 40-2's would likely be the shunters and wouldn't provide power at all you would likely running ace's as the drive unit and the 40-2's tow alongs or pushers
Great video! So refreshing to see a video with a stable camera, clear voice and knowledgeable person. I watched six videos prior to this one on consist and not a single one mention speed matching and their content was horrible.
Thanks for this video. You explained it very well. I have a Digitrax system and after all these years I will now be able to speed match quite a few of my locos. Thanks again.
Best video on speed matching I've seen yet. Not only informative, but clearly spoken and easy to understand. Thanks Bulldog
Great video, I decided to attempt speed matching today. I’m pretty new to DCC, but after spending a couple of hours adjusting CVs with the engines in consist I was able to get them to run together perfect at certain speed steps. One is a sound equipped engine and one is just regular DCC so they were WAY off from one another initially.
Great video on speed matching through the main common cv's. We are new to DCC using Digitrax Empire Builder. Seems like there are a million cv's and still learning how to control them but this video certainly helped dumb it down for us.
This info is wonderful! Don’t apologize for the detail. This is very helpful to me. I have 3 units to match including an A,and 2 B motorized from the same mfg where the second B unit is much slower. Thank you so much! Ted
Great video and explanation. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
i have to say its realtively easy to speed match locos once you get the gist of it.
The video is nicely done. Good explanation and clear voice.
my only problem right now will be to speed match EVERY single loco i have to match. (i have mainly european since im living in germany.)
this will be a pain in the a.... but i want it since every loco should be able to run with any other loco. at least the european i wont mix them with the americans i have since i either run european or american. So far ive been extremely lucky and actually have 5 different double header consist that just run together for now. no programming required despite it being different decoders in brand AND age. i even have an old selectrix decoder with only 14 speedsteps able to run with a ESU DCC with 128 speed steps without much of a fuss.
But your explanation will help me greatly in matching everyone of them together.
Thx for that
Would've been nice to show how you were changing the CV's on the controller.
There are other videos that get into the basics. He kept on point, which I appreciate.
Brilliant the best explanation I have seen of how to manipulate / organise speed settings and control. IT seems obvious to me from your layout you concentrate on control and electrics rather than model making. More explanation like that on how systems function electrically I could do with.
He really simplified speed matching. Very informative.
Worked for me. Um understood concept right off the bat... You have a talent for making the 'hard stuff' easily understandable. Also appreciated the white board teaching aid. Keep going mate, your killing it!!
Excellent video! I'm just getting ready to upgrade from the Bachmann EZ Command system to the NCE power cab, and speed matching was a mystery to me. This video is easy to follow, your audio is clear and easy to hear, and the instruction is perfect. I now understand perfectly what I need to do to do basic speed matching of my locos. Thank you!
I started with the EZ Command too, idk why they're marketed to people who want to do DCC stuff, all it does is let you controll speed, direction, and a couple sound buttons. They suck lol
Awesome video mate this is something I’ve wanted to sort out with my locos for a long time and had no idea how to do it.
Explained in a way I was easily able to understand so thanks again. 👍👍
I'm just getting started in DCC, and came across your video, very influential. Thank man!
-Randy
Nice job with the explanation, makes it very clear how to get it done. Thanks!
Very good video!
Though, I've been into model railroading for 45 years I only recently got into DCC.
So this is great that you simplified this, a little, by showing the three CV points along the curve, for speed matching.
Have to say this is why i love the railpro system. Speed matched auto and independent power increased on each loco. If the lead is struggling it bumps the power on all other locos in the train.
I thought it was a FANTASTIC video ! It will sure help me, in trying to speed match.
Thanks Cam, this was a good start for me. My first two SD70’s ran so smooth and were practically speed match straight outta the box, bought a third SD70 a year later (today), wasn’t even close in speed to the first two! Also a whole different story, but they were Walther’s and the new 3rd SD70 has a completely different sound board, much better but different.... ESU in the new SD70, Soundtraxx in the older yet same model of the first two!!
Go figure.
Well done. You did a good job explaining to a 67 year old.
Really great video! This helps a ton with figuring out how to do it without JMRI. I will try this soon!
Thanks! I'm glad it was helpful. I'm finally getting around to actually doing this with all of my locomotives.
-Cam
You made it easier for me, on to the layout. Thanks for another great video, keep them coming.
I'm glad to hear that!
-Cam
Outstanding video young man. I think you've taught an old dog a new trick. Keep up the good work and I look forward to watching many more of your videos. Using my newly acquired AccuTrack Speedometer, this should make this normally tedious process a little more quicker and enjoyable.
Great explanation! Love the visuals, they were very helpful.
tremendous demonstration.
Good choice for the lead unit!!
GREAT explanation! Very helpful video, makes complete sense. Thank you for taking the time to make and post this info for us!
Very good video. Easy to understand and very useful. Thanks.
Very informative video.... I'm about to start using JMRI and a computer to manage the layout and programming. Perhaps you can do a video of adding the locomotives in JMRI and programming those values for those that haven't done it yet. Thanks - Steve
Thanks, Steve! And that would be a great video to do. I actually don't have JMRI set up on any of my computers yet. That's something that I plan to do, so at that time I will make a video.
-Cam
The way I speed match my locomotives the fast way is using JMRI. There is a speed table with the 3 settings on it. Setting one is set to zero, mid is set to 128 and the final setting is set at 255. So when you open up the CV table CV2 always equals 1, CV6 always equal 128 and CV5 always equals 255. Only less than 5 minutes to speed match each locomotive. This is done when you setup the locomotive in JMRI.
Awesome and easy to understand, thank you!
I was pulling my hair out trying to speed match my locos. I will be trying this new way very soon. Thanks for the great video!! I'll keep watching for more videos. I just subscribed to your channel.
I haven't been lucky enough to speed match 2 identical Locomotives yet.
I just did a pair that I had to needed very different curves to each other, to match speeds.
One pair even needed step by step matching, to end up with quite different non linear graphs on the ESU program.
I imagine doing some with exact same drivetrains would be more pleasurable!
I'm not sure how close is close enough, but any variations are usually only an inch over several feet.
I think that's ok to short run at least occasionally as I try improve them, which may not actually be possible anyway.
One pair starts at different times, otherwise perfect, delays both set for sound on. I'll try again some time.
Though it's great we have the tech to usually match them up one way or another.
Cam,...have you ever seen the RailPro controller system for controlling consists? It is a radio controlled system like the real locotrol in the prototype locomotives. Whenever say, the lead locomotive comes under a heavier load to bear, i.e. steeper grade or any other impedance. Radio controll signals the helpers to step-up their power.
The system is much easier to set up, as it is mostly all automatically figured out for you. It's more or less built into the system.
There are some TH-cam channels that show this. Kpack and another video on, The Elkhart Model Railroad Club.
Hi, Ron! Yes, I've long been intrigued by the RailPro system. It's something I'd love to get into at some point. I still see advantages to DCC systems, but it's mainly to do with the proliferation of DCC products. Yet, with the way that I generally operate with my own equipment by myself, I probably wouldn't suffer at all with a switch to the RailPro system. Good suggestion.
-Cam
Thank you for sharing how to speed match locomotives without jmri. As I do not have jmri or the computer interface to my dcc system.
its also possible to look at the couplers between them. If they are like pushed together then one engine is moving too fast... if they look like they are being puuled apart then likely one is moving too slow for the faster one in front of it. Thats another tip for this kind of thing
great video, I really like The BN unit...
Cam, this is the best and most simple overview and demo of speed matching. I don't have JMRI but I was working towards that idea since I've seen so many videos on how it works, your video changed that for me. It seems much more simplistic overall and not a lot of changes to lots of CV's. I like most other modelers will be running multiple locos in lash-ups, that's fun for me so I really want them to match in speed as close as possible. 3 CV's and I can have them run very close in speed together. I just saw a video from Sparky107107 and his purchase of the Scale Trainz SD40-2 (Chessie System)right out of the box and those two match up very well. Will this same method work well with locos from different brands? And how will it work with two locos with different decoders in them?
Thanks for your time and the video, dig watching your channel!!! D. Muse WTCMRR
Thanks, David! Yeah, this approach is very simple and quick, and it works perfectly. To answer your questions, yes, it still works very well. I should've mentioned that in the video, but the three locomotives I was running were all different brands and there were two different decoders: Digitrax and Tsunami. So this is a universal way to speed match because CV 2, 5, and 6 are an NMRA standard.
-Cam
Great explanation, I'm not there yet but I will be running doubles one day. Thanks for sharing...Ed
just about to do mine-this helped heaps-thanks,wish me luck!
Awesome! Glad this was helpful.
-Cam
Nice, thanks!
Great video I’m new to DCC was running DCS. Are you changing the CVs on the programming track or mainline? I’ve noticed that when my MTH Engines are set at say 5 they move like a 5 where my new DCC engines need a much higher number to equal a DCS 5. I’m not planning on running DCC with DCS but why do the DCC engines need a higher number on the throttle to get moving? Running new TCS 13:57 CS-105-B-106 booster
Great Tutorial, looks very helpful!
Cool. I’m building an N Scale, and am looking at running multiple units in tandem.
Very informative. I was wondering if all decoders had the three speed step capability?
Is it possible to consist different types of locomotives?
Such as a GP9 and a U18B.
Maybe even different makes such as Athearn and Walthers?
Absolutely! I frequently run consists of different models and makes. I mix Athearn, InterMountain, KATO, Scaletrains, and Walthers. There are certainly mechanical differences, but honestly the biggest influence on being able to run locomotives together is the decoder. I have a mixture of decoder makes and can run them all together well, but it would certainly streamline things if you have the same decoder type across all locomotives (such as ESU). However, it's certainly not necessary.
-Cam
Hello, my name is Alexandre, I admire your work and the way you expose your building techniques and the richness of detail that is very tasteful. I would love to learn how to do Speed Match, but never quite right, I use DCC Prodigy Elite 10 Amp - MRC - MRC1417, I have ESU, TSU and TCS Won on my models. However I do not speak English, I would like to ask you this scheme if you have written, so I can translate. Thank you.
Any chance you could a video on the individual speed step cvs?
Good explanation && nice video overall !
Thanks man! Glad you liked it.
-Cam
Very helpful! You're a great teacher. I assume that in order to run the 2 locos side by side, you programmed them both to the same ID number?
Thank you! I actually consisted them together so that I could change the CVs independently. If you program them to the same address/ID, any CV change will register under both units. I did a separate video on consisting, if you want help with that.
-Cam
Is this the same for most every decoder?
Cam, just got done watching for maybe the 10th time. 1 question for you, are the cv 2,5,and 6 the same for all decoders aand systems. I hace a nce power cab, and was wondering is cvs are same as you used.
Now, do I still run cv54 on ESU decoders before I adjust these cv's ?
Thanks Cam. Once you change the 3 cv’s does the decoder automatically change all the others? If not could you have a problem if you ran two locos at 1/4 speed or 3/4 speed? Would those be not the same? Thanks
Yes, assuming that the 3-point speed curve feature is enabled (it usually should be by default), changing the start, mid, and max voltage will automatically interpolate all of the steps in between. So 3/4 speed should be the difference between 1/2 and full throttle. Hope that helps!
-Cam
I could see the trains match speeds, but I couldn’t see how and what you did to do that.
where did you get that KCS SD70M?
So if they aren't 100% but are really close, will let's that 2 or 5% difference be enough to burn out the motors? Or are they going to be ok for the most part?
Speed Matching - Is this the same thing as comparing the actual prototypical speed of a locomotive vs that of a N scale (or what ever scale one models in) or is this about trying to get to N scale locomotives to run cooperatively with each other?
I’m on a old CVP products easyDCC system so it’s a different way of doing the programming and the way it makes the cv’s out is weird so I have never been able to match my locos
Hi, great video, today I just recieve my second Intermountain both have the same decoder ESU locksound, I will try to consist like that, otherwise I will use your information. Thanks
Great video.....but I would of liked to see the actual work on the screen or whatever u used........thank you!
how do you get a single engine to run the same speed in flowered and reverse mine seem to be 2 to 3 mph different at speed step 25 it run 30 mph flowered but 27 or 28 in reverse how do i get it to run 30 in both directions. thank you. i have several engines that do this.
hello railfan220 & it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks railfan220 friends randy
Thank you for this video, it should help. Do your locomotives have to run perfectly to speed match and consist? (like, no stalls in the locomotive) I feel like I've already asked that before, but if that's the case, should I fix it? (I remember saying my Intermountain has a wire loose in the rear truck)
My BLI SD40-2 has little to no running problems, and my Intermountain ES40DC has quite a few.
No problem! I'm glad it's helpful. And no, the locomotives don't have to run flawlessly to speed match them. They'll get programmed in the same way that your nice running units do. So it's not like you're going to harm anything if some of your locomotives run worse than others. It's more of an unprototypical annoyance than anything.
-Cam
Cam, that's true. And thanks for the tip.
how do u change the cv value . im using a dcs52 unite with two sd70s one has sound and the other dont
Could I speed match with the Digitrax DCS 52?
Hi great video!! but I need an advise, I have two Intermountain SD40-2 with ESULocksound also I have my NCE power cab. I just read the CVs 2,3,4,5,and 6 and have the same value for both engines, but still run a different speed, what can I do? thanks
how do you change the cv2 and can you do it with a power cab
I like the video, but how are you changing the cv's
Question. If i leave the cv5 at max say 255. I then run 2 locomotives and the faster locomotive would i adjust cv6 higher or lower?
@@TorryGood i used the seconds count app on Android and entered speed steps 10 through to 100 into z21 app. It works perfectly and is free
Great video, very informative. Just a question for you. What CV would be between CV2 and CV6? (ESU decoder)I find one of my Bowser SD40-2's runs slightly slower at about 25 (0-99) on a Digitrax system. Changing CV6 makes some difference but there's still jerking about about 1/4 feel speed with the unit mu'd with other Bowser SD40-2's (I have four of them). Thanks
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed. The only CVs between CV 2 and 6 are CV 3 and 4 which only control acceleration and deceleration, respectively. The only way to affect the speed curve between start speed (CV2) and mid speed (CV6) is to set the voltage for each individual speed step. It's easy enough to do with programming software; not so much on a DCC throttle. Hope that answers your question.
-Cam
Thanks I ended up trimming back CV2 slightly to 1 and CV 6 up to 90 (Bowser defaults them to 3 and 88). That took care of the surge at around speedstep 25 of 99. Still some initial back and forth right off the start but I've seen that with real units when they first start so no big deal. Thanks again.
What happens if you don't speed match your locos? Will it ruin the locos?
Yes because the worm gear they have
I assume that all three of your motors are of the same manufacturer and have the same dcc board. Does your way of speed matching work with mixed manufacturers? For example, an Athearn blue box converted to dcc with DASR board, and a walthers trainline motor?
Believe it or not, all 3 of those locos come from different manufacturers (Intermountain, KATO, and Athearn) with 2 different decoders (Digitrax, and Soundtraxx). So I would think you shouldn't have any problems with your mix of manufacturers.
-Cam
what do you do if your loco wont move until cv 02 needs to be set to a value of say 18?
As long as it runs slowly and to your liking, that shouldn't be an issue. Decoders use what's called BEMF to automatically modulate motor input. This allows the motor to run smoothly at low speeds and to compensate for any resistance it encounters. This is great for low speed operation, but when you want to create consists, it's advantageous to turn this feature down. Which CVs are used and how that feature behaves varies from decoder to decoder, but it's likely that the high CV 2 value is a result of BEMF being turned down.
I run all of my locomotives this way, which means CV 2 usually is a bit higher (in the 5-15 range) to get the locomotive moving smoothly.
-Cam
Will this work with on30 bachmann decoders?
It certainly should. The CVs in this video are NMRA standards, so almost all decoders should use them.
-Cam
Good Work, keep it up I’ve subscribed . ;-)
tk you good take on video awesdome work on explaning, but when your setting cv are you using a computer or just a hand held im running digitrax new to the game tk you
Good question! I was just using my NCE Powercab handheld throttle. I've used Digitrax before, but I don't exactly remember the buttons you have to press to change CVs.
-Cam
What is the maximum incline on your layout?
It was supposed to be 2.5%, but in a few short places it's closer to 2.7%. That's only along the upper level mountain grade. The lower level still has a significant grade, but it's much more subtle (closer to 1.2%).
-Cam
playing about in the voltages is a grand `idea though you aren't correcting the flaw by detuning 1 loco to the other you may want to start looking at up[grading the weaker units power to match rather than go in reverse and under powering the higher power unit/loco
may be fix the pickups if both units have the same power hardware because it seems 1 has better power p[pickup than the other
I see what you're saying, but there isn't really any flaw. What we're doing here is really just syncing the running characteristics across a speed range. These are all different locomotives, with different decoders that come programmed from the factory a certain way. While some will have overall lower pulling power than others, that's often a combination of weight and gearing in addition to the actual motor. So I'm not extremely concerned with the maximum output of the motor because it's top speed is often greater than the prototype's. As long as the top speeds of the locomotives are prototypical and synced, I think it's ok to rerate the voltage down to a level that achieves that goal. But I really appreciate the input!
-Cam
I wan't thinking of max power though by the indication of the speed step and likely output power you may not get them to the exact same power level, and trying to create a pseudo power profile defeats the purpose of what you are trying to achieve here..
even at half to 1/4 the speed 1 has more power than the other go back an watch your own video and you will understand where I was coming from in terms of actual power between the 2 units of mismatch power..
you may want to do a current draw on both units to understand what i initially said..
Ok, yes I think I better understand what you were saying, and I totally agree that it would be nice to upgrade weaker power units. I'm really not trying to argue that speed matching is the ultimate fix. The purpose of this video was just to visually communicate how to sync different locomotives to run smoothly together without pulling against each other too hard. Speed matching does not address the power differences, but it does take into account the other aspects of the drivetrain such as the gears and wheel diameter. That said, I do agree with you and understand what you're saying.
-Cam
Oooh, I forgot to add that I think load compensation and BEMF will make up for some voltage derating in a situation with a heavy load. So there isn't a complete loss of performance when derating a more powerful motor or decoder.
Unfortunately I find your explanation will cause confusion to those trying match speeds. It's wrong to suggest that the CV values are directly linked to speed, as different motors react differently to the same voltages. The CV values only control the input voltage, and one locomotive may run at 40 scale mph at 6 volts where another will only run at 25 scale mph in 6 volts. The method is to adjust the CV values, hence voltage so they run at the same scale mph at a given speed step. So while they all start off using the straight line speed curve, you adjust the high-mid-low cv's so that locomotive speeds match, but the CV values will vary quite a bit (you made it look like you were trying to match CV values). Also the target locomotive you are using as you speed standard matters very much. That target locomotive needs to be only of your most common type that doesn't run much faster or slower than the rest of the fleet. Picking a oddball locomotive as a target locomotive will cause a great deal of headache trying to get the rest of the fleet to match it. Also I suggest that the start voltage be set to a voltage to a point just below where the locomotive will start to move. Having the locomotives jerk into motion at speed step 1 is not very realistic. I like to have them smoothly start rolling somewhere between speed step 1 to 3.
Yes, you are correct, and I see what you're saying. Around the 8 minute mark, it does seem like I'm suggesting that locomotives from the factory come with different CV values and that's the only thing differentiating them. Of course, if that were true, the answer to that would be to just program in the same CV values for all locomotives. So, that's not what I was trying to suggest, but it was a bit confusing. I started the video explaining what a 3-point speed curve is relative to a single locomotive (in which case the whiteboard does make sense), but then I started using it to explain how 3 locomotives might behave. I probably should've redone the y-axis and erased the absolute CV values on each of the curves. However, I think most people found it fairly clear because later I did explain that we're not matching CVs. We're matching speeds by understanding the speed differential between two locomotives and then adjusting the CVs directionally on one of them and relative to the other.
I think it certainly helps to pick a common locomotive, but I think most people who would watch this video (including myself), don't have enough locomotives to have a "common" or "oddball" locomotive. However, it is a good point about picking a baseline locomotive that makes life easier when programming the rest of the fleet. I've found that I don't really know what locomotive that is until I start programming, and it's really dependent on decoder and less on the locomotive manufacturer.
As for your starting speed step, I like how you do it, but at least for the locomotives I've had, that hasn't been a possibility without changing other drive characteristic CVs. For example, a CV 2 value of 1 might cause the lead locomotive in this video to hesitate and lunge in speed step one, but a value of 2 might be perfect. In other words, because a lot of decoder manufacturers program BEMF or load control to 100% from the factory, starting smoothly in speed step 1 is the only option. Of course, consists run better with lower BEMF, and that also gives you the option to start a few speed steps higher. I just didn't want to open that can of worms in this video because I had originally planned for this to be a multi-part series.
Anyway, these are good points you make, and maybe I should return to this subject with them in mind.
I'm also curious, you say that your locomotives don't start immediately in speed step 1, so I'm assuming that you have adjusted BEMF down to make that possible. If this is the case, do they always smoothly start up, or do they ever lunge when you reach the right speed step? I've had a lot of fun on my mountainous layout with cranking load control/BEMF way down because it really takes quite a bit of throttle to get a heavy train started, but occasionally when I reach the "voltage potential" to get the train moving, the consist lunges before quickly leveling out at a slow start speed.
-Cam
Holy God is there not a device that can automatically speed match decoders and detect whoever moves faster or slower???? Lol