I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. I love listening to you. You're obviously an amazing analyst, but you have a incredible voice Bart. You are always a pleasure to listen to and I can't wait for your next commentary on HCL. Keep up the great work brother.
Was it just me or was anyone ELSE surprised when he FINALLY got around to telling us that he shipped? LOL - never had such a suspenseful lead up to the obvious!
@@SlowPokerTime One takeaway is you know 88 is in his 3! vs UTG range now. Ranging someone's 3! is very difficult for me. I just instantly start leveling myself.
@@SlowPokerTime I actually like how villain played the hand. His check-flop/check-turn line was obviously pretty solid, and I like his 3-bet from the button pre, where he clearly knows that he's folding to everything except a min-click 4-bet. _
Plenty of ppl have rightfully said this is a clear shove on the river, but I think the initial river bet sizing is also worth considering. You could even bet $30-$50 rather than $50-70 because $30 might get called by ace high. Just like hero, villain is pretty polarized to garbage or nutted hands by not betting turn for protection with TT or JJ, so a true block size could induce a bluff from garbage, induce a raise from a somewhat nutted hand like 88, get a straight or a flush to raise small for value, or even get AK to call. Since villain is polarized there’s not much reason to bet a middle sizing, don’t need to target the hands that would just call that.
I love Slow Poker's channel, great to hear him on the call in. This is a snap shove. If the guy has Quads or Q,9 (highly doubtful) so be it. If he has one of those hands Villan is betting turn
If he somehow had Q9o, he's betting flop and turn. Plus that'd be a pretty loose preflop threebet against a UTG open. So yeah, I would've eaten my hat if it was Q9o. Obviously now that I know his hand it makes far more sense. But in the moment I was truly stumped. Couldn't put him on a hand for the life of me. (Thanks for supporting my channel! And Bart's!)
@@SlowPokerTime watching the video, I was able to immediately put him on 8s, but I was also pressure free and not risking anything. People forget how much easier it is to play if you're not actually playing and just watching a video about playing
@@shaneisbetterthanyou I really appreciate this point. I'd like to think that if I were watching a 20-minute video about this hand from my couch, and could think through the whole thing pressure-free, I'd have landed on eights, too. Maybe for some there's no difference but for me the difference is pretty significant.
He’s not confident, he’s bluffing, it’s poker! If he thinks he’s betting for value it’s less than your boat. You have the the effective 2nd nuts. This is a dream scenario. Snap call. When you’re in this spot and he had quads it’s the price of paying poker. You’re good here so often.
Felt like eighths or JTss was the only possible combo he could be doing that on the river with. Sevens betting turn to build pot, especially when queens are unblocked in 3bettors hand. Felt like he rivered a nutter hand and caller was in a great sandbagging situation to get snapped. Middle set here is great
Thank you Bart for these great poker analysis and inviting us to your thought-processes. This type of commentary is definitely increasing my confidence to go out at play some live!
12:41 Because he would bet backdoor spades a lot on the turn?! Yes he can have a flush but he can also have Q9s QQ (sometimes maybe Q8s). we dont beat any boats. as 3b pre with 77 and 88 are very uncommon he could have AKss A2s-A5s but will he check the flop with wheel aces backdoor spades?! actually its possible. bc he sees that flop and might think it connects well with your utg 3b calling range. I'm on the fence on this. if Bart says we must ship i guess its the right move. just my thoughts tho
Everyone thinks differently and good on this guy for actually making the shove even though he scared himself somehow. My personal thoughts on this was that firstly I agree with betting the turn.. but as played its a very obvious shove over the top at the end and I'm not even scared. I'm just hoping he's gonna call with spades. Previous runouts and bad beats can totally mess up your mind in a situation and that's definitely what slowpoker was going through because despite saying he shouldn't be afraid of monsters under the bed, he certainly was here by how he talked about putting his opponent on the hand. Hell the river raise could have been AX with the Ace of spades as a bluff
I didn't believe for a second that this particular player would bet that large with spades. That's why the raise confounded me. Not scared, just fascinated.
@@SlowPokerTime For sure. That's why my combo count post never even mentions spades as a component of the villain's decision tree on the river. I'm curious whether you have any thoughts about why you couldn't seem to come up with 88 at all, in the moment? Is _that_ (apparent) blind spot the real symptom of your reaction to a stream of run-bad?
@@alistairwillock7266 Not linked to run-bad, no. (In fact, I'd won the biggest pot of my life the day prior.) Honestly it's as simple as assigning too narrow a preflop 3bet range for this villain. I'm so accustomed to people flatting with 88 in position facing an UTG open that I'd ruled it out. Ideally I won't make that mistake again. But I probably will.
Guys, guys, guys... Slow Poker here (the caller). This isn't about Scared Money or playing outside my bankroll or anything like that. It was more about the fun logic puzzle in my head on the river. To me, the only hand that made sense was quads. I just didn't see this player ever overvaluing the flush. And if my choices are fold, call, or shove, and quads is the only hand that makes any sense to me, do I ever just call? I'd already decided that I'm not folding and if it's a cooler, it's a cooler. Just thought it was a fun thought experiment. Not about being afraid of losing some money. I was simply fascinated by the flowchart on the river. That's all; nothing else.
Given you mentioned it so many times in the call, i think youre run bad has you seeing monsters under the bed, which impacted your river just call far more than working out the possible combos
@@johnnyhighroller8914 I hear you. To be honest, I kind of overstated with Bart at the beginning of the call. In reality, I was doing internal cartwheels after that flop. The thought of quads didn't even cross my mind until button's river raise, at which point I couldn't wrap my head around anything but quads. No way this guy in particular overvalues a flush. And eights just weren't on my radar. So while I mentioned the monsters and sandbagging and the rest, that didn't impact my decision. It was more a logic puzzle, and 88 was missing from that puzzle given I don't see that 3bet too often BU vs. UTG open.
this is what happens when you dont have the nuts but you think the opponent does, gets in your head. Which you have to think about, but you were ahead the whole time, the guy was playing from behind the entire time, he was not trapping. Fine line between the two.
This call might be one of the worst examples of over thinking it ever. It was a standard 3 bet pre play, double check check.. Neither player has any info that would point towards a 'sandbagging', it looks so much like a steal attempt on the river, the villain could have raised with anything there to try and take the pot. The hand is a straightforward cooler that requires no analysis. And if you had of check raised the flop, then bet the turn as planned, the hand is over and it's a much smaller pot. Classic example of getting lucky through how the hand played out.
This comment might be one of the most hyperbolic examples ever of someone saying something might be one of the worst examples of overthinking it ever. Seriously, though - put yourself in my shoes as someone who didn't land on pocket eights in the heat of the moment. Sandbagging only crossed my mind as an possibility when button raised so big on the river. My read at the table, along with the sizing, seemed pretty nutted - didn't seem to me like an attempt to steal with air. So if I didn't figure out 88, and if it's a value-raise, then what hand makes sense? And if I can only land on QQ, then I think it's a fascinating decision that's fun to debate. Had I put him on 88, then this is far simpler. But I didn't. And yes, I certainly got lucky. Had I bet any street prior to the river, no fireworks.
Normally I might agree with you. Some players do, but I played with this guy earlier and he wasn't the type to raise there unless he was pretty nutted.
I'd have been a bit nervous when he snapped me off but you cant be afraid of monsters everywhere you will never win constantly. If somebody has the 1 hand that beats you well then good for them but you have to show me.
QQ is one possibility...also pocket 7s,8s will shove, flush and straight who doesn't think hero has flush. And then there's the bluff...can I discuss this hand on my poker vlog?
I stopped the clip at 13:32 to say to the hero: As played, there are two value hands that make sense for the villain to have here: 1 combo of QQ, and three combos of 88. Maybe throw in 1 combo of 77, as played. I.e. you beat 4 out of 5 _VALUE_ combos that the villain can have here. You _have_ to shove, certainly with your stack depth, and even up to 2k deep. _NOTE: I'm assuming when you say that villain won't over-value a flush in this spot, that he is competent enough to never 3-bet your UTG open (from the rack, while sitting down!) with Q9o from the button. There are no combos of Q9ss even available!_
My biggest mistake was ruling out 77 or 88 preflop. After villain river-raised me massive, I stared at the available cards and arrived at the same conclusion wrt Q9. It's already a bit loose of preflop 3bet for this player type, and especially since only Q9o combos were available. Now imagine you're me and had those 77 and 88 blind spots. What's left? One hand.
Now that I've gotten through all the comments... Holy hell, y'all, lighten up. Hero takes the right action in the end - he can't be _that_ scared/nitty. Sheesh.
THANK YOU! It's borderline shocking how many people on here have called me a nit and scared money and all the rest but forget that I did, y'know, ship it. Kind of the opposite of what a scared-money nit does?
Villain could have 88 as played (before I even saw the end). A lot of flushes. There's 1 combo of QQ that you lose to. Why would villain not raise river with flushes when the hand was played so passively and the river bet was small? I don't get this....
You're not kidding. And I was about to match the stack as I was sitting down and dealt the nines. I won a $4,000 pot down there at a $1/3 table. Didn't even know that was a thing a person could do at $1/3...
This idea that you can avoid being wrong all the time is weird. You have to take educated risks to make money at poker. He may have quads or Q9 but does he have it enough times to make it not profitable over all the times you get in these spots. Ship it and accept the outcome of the hand as correct.
I know it seems obvious, but I thought it was kind of an interesting crossroads moment given the player type. I was almost entirely sure he'd never overvalue a flush, so the only hand that made a lick of sense was quads. So would I ever, ever, ever just flat? It sounds ridiculous, but that was my internal debate in the moment. Thought it was kind of a fun decision tree.
@@SlowPokerTime Just throw the money in man, it is only 300 more and you lose to basically one combo of QQ. If you are scared of monsters under the bed, than don't play at all. Nit!
12:58 what can he be so confident about? If he is any kind of player at all this board is just an incredible bluff card. Unless you specifically super slow played a house or quads, you just can’t call with any one pair hand. Any hand he has that contains a 10, J or medium and higher spade is a great bluff candidate. Realistically you lose to 1 combo. No suited Q9 exists.
I hear what you're saying, but it was a player-specific read. We're aligned that there's a player type who bluffs big here (e.g. with the naked ace of spades), given the passive action on flop and turn. But not this specific villain. He wasn't the type. We also agree on Q9 -- the majority of my river tank was spent confirming that Q9s was impossible. So if I'd ruled out a bluff, and there weren't better boats, that's why I was sitting there thinking, "Wait, it's not-- It can't be-- But IS it??" I'd never faced this question before where only two cards make sense and if that's my conclusion, why on earth am I shoving? Obviously I'm glad that I did. (Love the podcast, by the way.)
@@SlowPokerTime ultimately you made the right play and that’s what matters. I do find the question of what do you do if you have $2,000 behind very interesting though. If your player read was so strong what is the ultimate decision. Thanks for the kind comment on the pod. And for sharing your hand!
@@lowlimitcashgamespodcast First, thanks for being one of the handful of people who understand why I called Bart. The overwhelming consensus in the comments has been SNAP-SHOVE, YOU NIT MORON, ALSO DROP DOWN IN STAKES, SCARED-MONEY LOSER. Which is amusing on a number of levels, but I digress. Your question is the one that fascinated me the most. Given I didn't have much behind, I did tank, but not too long, and decided that I'll shove and if it's a cooler then hey, what a wild moment that was marginally more expensive to experience. If I had $2,000 behind, however, I'd like to think I'd have spent more time in the tank and would've eventually landed on these two conclusions (all with the caveat that I now have the benefit of hindsight): 1) If I'm in villain's shoes with QQ, I'd have to start building the pot at some point prior to the river. (I did have this thought at the table when he raised river, but maybe I'd have reminded myself of this a few extra times.) 2) Hold on, he could have 88 or 77!!! And while I'd ruled out those holdings, given most players in my experience don't threebet 88 or 77 from the BU facing a UTG open, hey, you never know, and there are quite a few more combinations of 88 and 77 than the one combination of QQ. So my sense is that maybe I still find the shove even if we were deeper. Maybe.
@@SlowPokerTime Telling people to drop down in stakes doesn’t enhance your game or theirs lol. It’s just noise from people only capable of noise. I do agree that it’s so hard for QQ to check twice. Would they have checked AQ or KQ on the flop? Not likely. QQ is the only realistic Q holding left and you would likely call a turn bet with any reasonably holding because they did check flop. We has to greatly discount any single queen holding because of the flop check that a call with value is almost mandatory. On a broader 30,000 feet view I find quad hands interesting to discuss in general. When it’s top quads you are in such a weird spot as far as building a pot. Under quads less nuanced. Appreciate the discussion and the hand. Keep grinding!
Omg this sounds like someone playing above their bankroll here scared of quads only 800 in a lodge match the stack game that is weak sauce bro come on go back to 1-2 game or something seriously
I haven't even finished watching the video, but having seen similar spots to this many times, I can say that the most likely holding here is 8-8, which is a no brainer raise for villain. That's the main hand you have to target. Even if he is capable of hero folding a flush, the set of 8s alone is worth it since it costs nothing when he folds. ...let's see if I'm right.
If you’re not gonna play the river this way, and this hand doesn’t get you past your fear, IN TEXAS, maybe time to take a break. Even if you give villain both the Q9 off, this is still a shove.
Q9o was out of the question for me. It's just that his river raise confused me. Now that I know his actual hand it's clear, but in game, I was stumped. I'd never been in that position before where quads was the only hand that made any sense. It's not that I was frazzled or fearful or need a break - I was fascinated. It was a fun set of questions to consider.
Bro, it is 88 super high %% after the river action, whoever does not see that gona have a big problem to make living from poker, but from the other side it is live poker in usa where people are still in 2007 🤝🤝 Nice hand🙄🙄
To be precise: It is about ALWAYS 88; any flush,or JT, would really be extremely weirdly played, while 77 would just qualify for the WSOP title in the Sandbag category.^^
@@SlowPokerTime it is becouse you look at preflop range charts and you dont have any real feeling for the flow of the game, and if chart tell you that is low frequency you are blind to see the real flow of the game and that is where you miss the obvious things, anyway good luck at your game and try to improve more 🤝🤝
@@markomirkovic159 Next time I'll try not to miss the obvious things, and not be so blind to the real flow of the game (because I should really open up my eyes to the real flow of the game - I mean it's right there in front of me, right??), and in the meantime, I will try to improve more. It's the Improving More part that I keep forgetting.
Callers poker paranoid. Slam dunk jam. If he’s got QQ bless his heart give him the money reach into your pocket pull out some cash and go onto the next hand
Fair to assume I'm paranoid, since I definitely sounded that way on the call. In reality, though, that's not how I felt at the table, where it was simply about putting the guy on a hand. Almost definitely not a flush and my mistake for missing 88 as an option, so I was intrigued by what he could possibly have. And in the moment QQ was the only thing that made sense so it was amusing to think about. I was high-fiving myself the whole hand until the river raise and then I'm all, "Wait, what? Could it be? No, it couldn't be. Wait, WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE?" And then if QQ is all that made sense, what then? The main response on this page seems to be "Dude! Just get it in! What's your problem? Who CARES if it's a cooler??" and I understand that mentality. (And I did get it in, everyone - in case you missed that part. In the end, didn't care if it was a cooler.) I'm just looking at this in a more layered way, just for fun - if you can only land on quads, then do you ever approach the river in a different way? It's not paranoid but logical/philosophical.
I guess we’re just reading the hand different. I understand your thinking but given the way the hand played out Villain should have way more flushed than quads imo… kudos to you for eventually getting over the paranoia and getting all the money in
@@tomignacios3668 Bart said, too, that villain could definitely have a flush. I just disagree with you both, but that's okay. And again, this wasn't paranoia, but I gave off that vibe on the call, so I get that, too!
@@BittyPlaysPoker Frankly, I'm jealous. I always wait till the last minute to figure out my episode title and thumbnail. Good on Bart for getting ahead of it!
With respect to this callers MUBSY feelings, 6 max cash game online, a player playing 41vpip1pfr after 85 hands limps UTG. 146.5BB effective stack, so not super deep. Folds to me in the SB I make it 5BB with 6c6d, BB folds, UTG calls. Flop is ATThhs, I do not have a heart. I cbet 4BB, v calls. Turn is the 6s. I bet 16BB into 20BB, V calls. River is 7s, (completing a SF). V has 121.5 BB left, I bet 34 BB into a 51BB pot, V jams. I beat some spade nut flushes so I sigh and call, V shows quads, I 😆. 13 minutes later, UTG at 103.2 BB effective running 19/16 opens to 2.5x, I flat with QhQc in the CO. HU to a QsKc9s flop. V checks, I bet 3.2BB. Turn Ad, v checks, I bet 14BB into 12.9, V calls, 40.9BB In the pot with an SPR of about 2. River Ac, V checks again, I bet 32BB, V jams. I have to sigh call again since I can't ever have better. V rolls over AKo and I call it a night 🌙. Lmao. Poker is fun 😀.
If you are going to be that concerned about running into the nuts when you have the second nuts, then stop playing poker. the player had a good read on the turn - that if the opponent had QQ, they would start building the pot, they didn't so either a lower boat or a flush but would you raise with a flush on a paired board?
Well, obviously your first sentence isn't applicable here, since I shoved my stack in the middle. But the rest of your comment is exactly why I called Bart. Because under pressure I hadn't considered 88, and there WERE no better boats that would've played this way, and therefore I thought it was a fun choice set on the river. Because of the lack of pot-building by the villain - and frankly because I didn't have many big blinds behind - I just whatever-shoved despite my feeling that only quads made sense. But I'm laughing to myself because if I think it's quads, couldn't one argue that shoving is irrational?
@@SlowPokerTime Hi, when I say "you" in the first line, I mean it as the generic you - as in anyone. In poker, you will not have the nuts each time but probably still the best hand. In this case, if the guy had QQ then it's just a cooler. There's no decision here, it was a call all day long at a minimum.
@@JimBuckleyBarrett Right on. Sorry to lump you into the same category of 95% of commenters who keep screaming that I'm a scared-money nit despite the fact that I shoved. You actually understand why I called Bart. We agree that at these stack depths it's always a shove and if it's a cooler, so be it. It's the larger logical question that intrigued me. I'd wondered - especially in a theoretical world if we're far deeper - if the decision ever changes. Probably not, but at least worth mulling over...
@@SlowPokerTime Even if you had pocket 7s, you're still beating a lot of hands - obviously, the river would be sick in that scenario but I can't see any fold here for you - maybe flat call with pocket 7s, as you are losing to q9, 99, 88 and of course qq. You were so strong with 9s here, even if he did turn up with QQ, it's a big cooler. If he had anything like q7, q9 etc. he would have played it differently from the flop and probably preflop ;). Wins and coolers are all part of the game. Anyways, nice hand! PS Ignore the haters, just keyboard warriors living in mammy's basement.
@@JimBuckleyBarrett Couldn't agree more with all of the above. My mistake was preflop-ranging button with TT+ which is why the river action stopped me in my tracks. And yes, while it's hilarious that the response to my shove has been primarily, "SCARED BABY, WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOVE?" - I should not be surprised for a second. Keyboard warriors gonna keyboard warrior.
@@SlowPokerTime haha yeah. I think that as you learn more about poker your going through less "down swings" just because you're thinking about poker more and more as pure mathematics and variations. But man oh man, iil never forget my 3 weeks in vegas of 2017. I had about 300 pocket aces and lost all most of all them. I remember 2 situations in particular. One was when I was delt an aces and then the dealer exposed my other card that was a 7, she gave me q new card, ace naturally, I 3beted a guy and he called, flop came 8 8 2. He had 86 suited lol The second time was at the end, like 7 hours before my flight. I was so scared and just wanted it all to end but my friend talked me into it So its 10 morning, brand new table, I buy in for 300, on the 3rd round I get the aces, 3bet and the flop is k q x, we go all in the guy has kq off. I buy in for another 300, and 2 hands later gets kk. Again I 3bet, he shoves I snap, hes got qq. And sure enough, queen on the window 600 usd in 7 hands Nightmare
Thanks, Gavin! I'm getting a comical amount of hate in these comments, so it's refreshing to see some support/love. I just thought it was an interesting river moment - kind of reminded me of debates in high school philosophy class - but the focus seems to instead be on just screaming "NIT!!" as loudly as possible (despite the fact that I, y'know, shoved). Oh well. Thanks for watching my show! (And I've already started writing the episode that'll feature this hand - should be a fun one.)
I relate to your channel more than most because I totally get the humour to a tee . I’ve played poker nearly 20 years , I played poker for a living 2014-2019 but have kids and a stable job and it’s far better for it to be a profitable hobby than the chore it became . I totally get your channel and look forward to the videos . The same people who are just shouting ‘nit’ and criticising have probably never played the amount of hours you have and been in the same situation over and over again to not even contemplate what river raise could be . Most river raises are the nuts . Just in this instance because of the lack of value betting prior we should assume some other hands make up villains raising range too . Above all else you came to right conclusion and got the max . Keep up the Great videos . Deserve far higher viewership
@@SlowPokerTime To be fair to the nit-shamers, when listening to the call in real-time, you spent a lot of time _talking_ about being worried about quads. I.e. _one_ combo. Obviously, the actual _action_ you took on the river was correct, but the _impression_ that listeners/viewers might have formed would be influenced by what percentage of the call you spent mentioning the worst-case scenario. That aside, I'm a vlog-watcher and subscriber, and have to agree with this general thesis: cautious reaction to river-raises is a winning strategy from 1/2 up to 2/5. I.e. I support that signature Slow-Poker style, so GG!
@@alistairwillock7266 I couldn't agree more with all that you've said here. I may have taken a little dramatic license when I sounded nervous on the call. It's true that I'd been rocked by sandbagged sets and quads of late - and it's hard for me to shake that feeling - but for THIS hand? At the table, quads never truly crossed my mind as a possibility until the river raise, at which point I struggled to consider 88 (just didn't put that in his preflop BU vs. UTG range) and therefore was just mystified by the massive raise. I definitely sounded shell-shocked on the call with Bart, but in reality, at the table I was more quietly amused/confused/intrigued instead of OH NO NOT AGAIN. Thanks for the support of my channel! I think you'll like the Slow Poker spin I put on this one...
Ok first of all, the sizing on the river by villian looks EXACTLY like pocket 8s. I even said 88 outloud before the ending. Think about it: if Villian has QQ or Q9, he'd know Hero has no Q or likely DOESNT have a queen and he'd raise for VALUE instead of $425 from $90. He'd WANT to get called. He cant assume Hero has 77, Q7, or 99 if he has Q9. So he'd try to milk hero. The fact he makes it $425 with 8s full on the river, hes HOPING HERO can never laydown hands like AQ, KQ, and thus his line of thinking makes the most sense. Sometimes you gotta use your brain in these situations. What makes sense, what doesnt.
@@SlowPokerTime well I'm not dissing you I'm just saying follow the logic. What makes sense? If villian has exactly QQ, you're either betting thin value on river, or bluffing entirely. He'd want to get paid, so that raise is way too big. Thats all im saying.
@@charlesnewborn3760 Love this point. And it's why the sizing confused me. Good on you for landing on 88. In the heat of the moment, 88 just didn't enter into my brain. Maybe if I was at home, looking at this minus the pressure of the moment it would've been more obvious.
@@SlowPokerTime I actually this is the most interesting takeaway from this hand for you (and for me too, TBH): Why didn't you come up with 88? I.e. what can you do differently in your off-table work to help you parse the decision tree more consistently when you're _at_ the table? That's what I ask myself all the time at this point in my poker journey: how do I get my in-flight analysis quality to converge to a better approximation of what I can manage in off-table analysis (or as an on-table bystander)? So thanks for your call-in, because it's stimulating me to think about that question from a potentially slightly different angle.
@@alistairwillock7266 Great question. I'm still relatively new to poker, and sometimes my brain missteps more when the pressure's on. Ideally after more hours playing live - or, as you put it, in-flight (which I love) - that'll improve.
Why cant he have 888? If he has 88 as played in any frequency we gotta shove this. Edit: Spoiler alert: Why is this even a question for callin? It answers itself dude.
Honestly that was my decision in the end. Quads was the only hand that made sense at the time, so I thought to myself, "Y'know what? If it's quads, I'll pay a little extra to see the disgusting reveal." Kind of like a Ticketmaster service charge.
Ha! I was waiting for a check-raise opportunity twice and it never presented itself. Worked out in the end. Had I bet at any point, he folds and there are no river fireworks. But yeah, I was this close to leading turn but got the vibe a bet was coming. I was dead. wrong.
Remember that I was out of position. On a dry, rainbow flop nobody should ever donk-lead with middle set on that flop. But generally speaking, yes, I would've rather built the pot at some point. Turns out the river card did yeoman's work.
(sigh) This isn't about being a nit. It's about hand-reading. I thought it was interesting, but everyone is so hung up that it's about scared money when it isn't. Oh well.
Easy shove. If you are that shell shocked where are you are going to be afraid of losing 300 more dollars to monster under the bed, you’re playing too big.
I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. I love listening to you. You're obviously an amazing analyst, but you have a incredible voice Bart. You are always a pleasure to listen to and I can't wait for your next commentary on HCL. Keep up the great work brother.
I almost thought this guy was going to fold the way he was talking. I am very glad he did shove because that’s definitely what he should do!
Lol tight fold like Juanda with quads in short deck Triton main event
I was begging not to hear i folded 😂
Kudos to Bart for almost keeping a straight face while "Hero" was sweating his opponent having Quads.
Not all heroes wear capes. Some wear a hoodie and struggle to find a worse hand that'd raise river.
Great video, I found this channel about a week ago and have been hooked!
This caller puts everyone on the nuts.
Caller lmade super certain there wasn’t a straight flush on the river” before finally putting money in a 3-bet pot with no bets to that point lol
😂😂😂 “I’m just thinking about the thumbnail…. ‘Still scared after I won…’” omg I was DYING laughing when you said that holy shit pure gold.
Was it just me or was anyone ELSE surprised when he FINALLY got around to telling us that he shipped? LOL - never had such a suspenseful lead up to the obvious!
God this show is the best. Calls like this make my brain hurt, but at the same time remind me how easy live poker is. This guys scared of quads lol
Slight correction: Not scared of quads. Just struggled to put him on anything else. Obviously I wasn't scared. I did shove, after all.
@@SlowPokerTime One takeaway is you know 88 is in his 3! vs UTG range now.
Ranging someone's 3! is very difficult for me. I just instantly start leveling myself.
@@SlowPokerTime I actually like how villain played the hand. His check-flop/check-turn line was obviously pretty solid, and I like his 3-bet from the button pre, where he clearly knows that he's folding to everything except a min-click 4-bet.
_
Plenty of ppl have rightfully said this is a clear shove on the river, but I think the initial river bet sizing is also worth considering. You could even bet $30-$50 rather than $50-70 because $30 might get called by ace high. Just like hero, villain is pretty polarized to garbage or nutted hands by not betting turn for protection with TT or JJ, so a true block size could induce a bluff from garbage, induce a raise from a somewhat nutted hand like 88, get a straight or a flush to raise small for value, or even get AK to call. Since villain is polarized there’s not much reason to bet a middle sizing, don’t need to target the hands that would just call that.
I love Slow Poker's channel, great to hear him on the call in.
This is a snap shove. If the guy has Quads or Q,9 (highly doubtful) so be it. If he has one of those hands Villan is betting turn
If he somehow had Q9o, he's betting flop and turn. Plus that'd be a pretty loose preflop threebet against a UTG open. So yeah, I would've eaten my hat if it was Q9o. Obviously now that I know his hand it makes far more sense. But in the moment I was truly stumped. Couldn't put him on a hand for the life of me. (Thanks for supporting my channel! And Bart's!)
This guys terrible. He should probably quit poker.
@@SlimShady771 Well, like my grandma always said: If SlimShady76 ever tells you to quit poker, quit poker.
@@SlowPokerTime watching the video, I was able to immediately put him on 8s, but I was also pressure free and not risking anything. People forget how much easier it is to play if you're not actually playing and just watching a video about playing
@@shaneisbetterthanyou I really appreciate this point. I'd like to think that if I were watching a 20-minute video about this hand from my couch, and could think through the whole thing pressure-free, I'd have landed on eights, too. Maybe for some there's no difference but for me the difference is pretty significant.
He’s not confident, he’s bluffing, it’s poker! If he thinks he’s betting for value it’s less than your boat. You have the the effective 2nd nuts. This is a dream scenario. Snap call. When you’re in this spot and he had quads it’s the price of paying poker. You’re good here so often.
88 is not a bluff lol.
Felt like eighths or JTss was the only possible combo he could be doing that on the river with. Sevens betting turn to build pot, especially when queens are unblocked in 3bettors hand. Felt like he rivered a nutter hand and caller was in a great sandbagging situation to get snapped. Middle set here is great
I love that the caller ended up on the better end of a cooler after being worried about being on the wrong end of it in this paticular hand.
Thank you Bart for these great poker analysis and inviting us to your thought-processes. This type of commentary is definitely increasing my confidence to go out at play some live!
Nice title Bart. You have to get it all in in this spot. No reason to be afraid of a single hand.
Bart you have the best poker content on TH-cam. Love every single one of these videos
"You can't be afraid of quads"
Doyle Brunson
12:41 Because he would bet backdoor spades a lot on the turn?!
Yes he can have a flush but he can also have Q9s QQ (sometimes maybe Q8s). we dont beat any boats. as 3b pre with 77 and 88 are very uncommon
he could have AKss A2s-A5s but will he check the flop with wheel aces backdoor spades?! actually its possible. bc he sees that flop and might think it connects well with your utg 3b calling range.
I'm on the fence on this. if Bart says we must ship i guess its the right move. just my thoughts tho
Everyone thinks differently and good on this guy for actually making the shove even though he scared himself somehow. My personal thoughts on this was that firstly I agree with betting the turn.. but as played its a very obvious shove over the top at the end and I'm not even scared. I'm just hoping he's gonna call with spades.
Previous runouts and bad beats can totally mess up your mind in a situation and that's definitely what slowpoker was going through because despite saying he shouldn't be afraid of monsters under the bed, he certainly was here by how he talked about putting his opponent on the hand.
Hell the river raise could have been AX with the Ace of spades as a bluff
I didn't believe for a second that this particular player would bet that large with spades. That's why the raise confounded me. Not scared, just fascinated.
@@SlowPokerTime For sure. That's why my combo count post never even mentions spades as a component of the villain's decision tree on the river. I'm curious whether you have any thoughts about why you couldn't seem to come up with 88 at all, in the moment? Is _that_ (apparent) blind spot the real symptom of your reaction to a stream of run-bad?
@@alistairwillock7266 Not linked to run-bad, no. (In fact, I'd won the biggest pot of my life the day prior.) Honestly it's as simple as assigning too narrow a preflop 3bet range for this villain. I'm so accustomed to people flatting with 88 in position facing an UTG open that I'd ruled it out. Ideally I won't make that mistake again. But I probably will.
Pocket 88s made most sense when I thought about the hand before the reveal
Guys, guys, guys... Slow Poker here (the caller). This isn't about Scared Money or playing outside my bankroll or anything like that. It was more about the fun logic puzzle in my head on the river. To me, the only hand that made sense was quads. I just didn't see this player ever overvaluing the flush. And if my choices are fold, call, or shove, and quads is the only hand that makes any sense to me, do I ever just call? I'd already decided that I'm not folding and if it's a cooler, it's a cooler. Just thought it was a fun thought experiment. Not about being afraid of losing some money. I was simply fascinated by the flowchart on the river. That's all; nothing else.
Makes a lot of sense
Given you mentioned it so many times in the call, i think youre run bad has you seeing monsters under the bed, which impacted your river just call far more than working out the possible combos
@@johnnyhighroller8914 I hear you. To be honest, I kind of overstated with Bart at the beginning of the call. In reality, I was doing internal cartwheels after that flop. The thought of quads didn't even cross my mind until button's river raise, at which point I couldn't wrap my head around anything but quads. No way this guy in particular overvalues a flush. And eights just weren't on my radar. So while I mentioned the monsters and sandbagging and the rest, that didn't impact my decision. It was more a logic puzzle, and 88 was missing from that puzzle given I don't see that 3bet too often BU vs. UTG open.
Scared money
@@NeiltheDeal YES! Forget everything I said above. THIS guy gets it.
The raise smells like quads but what do you do but put it in
this is what happens when you dont have the nuts but you think the opponent does, gets in your head. Which you have to think about, but you were ahead the whole time, the guy was playing from behind the entire time, he was not trapping. Fine line between the two.
lol
Easiest board and hand for Bart ever!! Bart is a genius guys! Give him more difficult scenarios!!!!
Exactly even I can figure it out get the money in get the money in get the money
I listen to the callin show most weeks and this caller was the most ridiculous in months.
I aim to please.
Yeah, i couldn't agree more.
Seeking attention for wanting to hero fold to one combo of QQ that beats him.
Clueless nit!
@@fransfermont6193 He's baaaaaaaack.
Bart: "What made you think of me during this hand?"
Caller: "The massive poster of you on the wall!"
This call might be one of the worst examples of over thinking it ever. It was a standard 3 bet pre play, double check check.. Neither player has any info that would point towards a 'sandbagging', it looks so much like a steal attempt on the river, the villain could have raised with anything there to try and take the pot. The hand is a straightforward cooler that requires no analysis. And if you had of check raised the flop, then bet the turn as planned, the hand is over and it's a much smaller pot. Classic example of getting lucky through how the hand played out.
This comment might be one of the most hyperbolic examples ever of someone saying something might be one of the worst examples of overthinking it ever.
Seriously, though - put yourself in my shoes as someone who didn't land on pocket eights in the heat of the moment. Sandbagging only crossed my mind as an possibility when button raised so big on the river. My read at the table, along with the sizing, seemed pretty nutted - didn't seem to me like an attempt to steal with air. So if I didn't figure out 88, and if it's a value-raise, then what hand makes sense? And if I can only land on QQ, then I think it's a fascinating decision that's fun to debate. Had I put him on 88, then this is far simpler. But I didn't.
And yes, I certainly got lucky. Had I bet any street prior to the river, no fireworks.
Hey man we have the same name and hobby
A capable player is definitely raising if he has the nut flush. It's almost always good.
Normally I might agree with you. Some players do, but I played with this guy earlier and he wasn't the type to raise there unless he was pretty nutted.
I'd have been a bit nervous when he snapped me off but you cant be afraid of monsters everywhere you will never win constantly. If somebody has the 1 hand that beats you well then good for them but you have to show me.
It's either 88 or QQ..... Anyone who 3 bets suited spades, would bet the turn.
There are three times as many combos of 88 so you got to shove
This is wild. If you got quads there, you’re getting my stack. I’m never worrying about that hand
QQ is one possibility...also pocket 7s,8s will shove, flush and straight who doesn't think hero has flush. And then there's the bluff...can I discuss this hand on my poker vlog?
I stopped the clip at 13:32 to say to the hero: As played, there are two value hands that make sense for the villain to have here: 1 combo of QQ, and three combos of 88. Maybe throw in 1 combo of 77, as played. I.e. you beat 4 out of 5 _VALUE_ combos that the villain can have here. You _have_ to shove, certainly with your stack depth, and even up to 2k deep.
_NOTE: I'm assuming when you say that villain won't over-value a flush in this spot, that he is competent enough to never 3-bet your UTG open (from the rack, while sitting down!) with Q9o from the button. There are no combos of Q9ss even available!_
My biggest mistake was ruling out 77 or 88 preflop. After villain river-raised me massive, I stared at the available cards and arrived at the same conclusion wrt Q9. It's already a bit loose of preflop 3bet for this player type, and especially since only Q9o combos were available. Now imagine you're me and had those 77 and 88 blind spots. What's left? One hand.
Now that I've gotten through all the comments... Holy hell, y'all, lighten up. Hero takes the right action in the end - he can't be _that_ scared/nitty. Sheesh.
THANK YOU! It's borderline shocking how many people on here have called me a nit and scared money and all the rest but forget that I did, y'know, ship it. Kind of the opposite of what a scared-money nit does?
Villain could have 88 as played (before I even saw the end). A lot of flushes. There's 1 combo of QQ that you lose to. Why would villain not raise river with flushes when the hand was played so passively and the river bet was small? I don't get this....
I'd seen this player earlier in the day and I felt pretty confident he wouldn't raise so large on a paired board with the nut flush.
Is this the youngest Old Man Coffee of all time?!
No joke, before settling on Slow Poker, an early draft of my channel concept was going to be something like Middle-Aged Man Latte.
@@SlowPokerTime lol! That is awesome. I too was perpetually afraid of the Nuts Monster under the bed. Hope you slay it as well, cheers!
If this guy has quad queens here you gift wrap your whole stack for him and push it his way simple as that
Why not bet flop ?
This guy needs to buy your course
Okay turns out you played it perfect on the river. Well done.
All I had to do was bide my time for the grossest river card imaginable. I'm a genius.
@@SlowPokerTime LOL You guys built the middle up so well you really got me. I thought you were gonna somehow fold.
800 is a micro stack in this game lol. I was there for the first time in December and bought into the 1/3 for 3k 😳
You're not kidding. And I was about to match the stack as I was sitting down and dealt the nines. I won a $4,000 pot down there at a $1/3 table. Didn't even know that was a thing a person could do at $1/3...
This idea that you can avoid being wrong all the time is weird. You have to take educated risks to make money at poker. He may have quads or Q9 but does he have it enough times to make it not profitable over all the times you get in these spots. Ship it and accept the outcome of the hand as correct.
Lol this called brad a scaredy-cat and he is afraid of a one combo threat?
Brad is A BABY.
@@SlowPokerTime SHOTS FIRED!
@@gazorpazorp9798 YOU KNOW WHERE TO FIND ME, OWEN.
I think this is just an easy shove on the river.
I know it seems obvious, but I thought it was kind of an interesting crossroads moment given the player type. I was almost entirely sure he'd never overvalue a flush, so the only hand that made a lick of sense was quads. So would I ever, ever, ever just flat? It sounds ridiculous, but that was my internal debate in the moment. Thought it was kind of a fun decision tree.
@@SlowPokerTime Just throw the money in man, it is only 300 more and you lose to basically one combo of QQ.
If you are scared of monsters under the bed, than don't play at all.
Nit!
@@fransfermont6193 Good advice! Next time I'll shove. #regrets
@@SlowPokerTime You are ridiculous
@@fransfermont6193 *then
You underplayed your hand so he’s not raising with flush+, he’s raising with worse+
I listen to these and find so much “value (pun intended).
Do you ever have online poker hands?
Not that I’ve seen, but it’s called crush *live* poker
I would have lead turn for a small amount and might have made 0 dollars so somehow the guy terrified of 1 or maybe 2 (q9s) combos got the max
I was playing three-dimensional chess.
@@SlowPokerTime regular chess is hard enough to master. Keep it simple
I watch Slowpokers' vlogs. I thought for sure he was just going to call. He's a little nitty. 😆
I can sometimes nit it up. I'll admit to that. Thanks for watching my vlogs!
The way this guy played and his thought process is exactly like brad owen. Not sure why he took a dig at Owen in the beginning
Brad and I have fake beef.
Man I even thought the guy had QQ by the end of this lol
Did someone drunk write the title and description
12:58 what can he be so confident about? If he is any kind of player at all this board is just an incredible bluff card. Unless you specifically super slow played a house or quads, you just can’t call with any one pair hand. Any hand he has that contains a 10, J or medium and higher spade is a great bluff candidate.
Realistically you lose to 1 combo. No suited Q9 exists.
I hear what you're saying, but it was a player-specific read. We're aligned that there's a player type who bluffs big here (e.g. with the naked ace of spades), given the passive action on flop and turn. But not this specific villain. He wasn't the type.
We also agree on Q9 -- the majority of my river tank was spent confirming that Q9s was impossible. So if I'd ruled out a bluff, and there weren't better boats, that's why I was sitting there thinking, "Wait, it's not-- It can't be-- But IS it??"
I'd never faced this question before where only two cards make sense and if that's my conclusion, why on earth am I shoving?
Obviously I'm glad that I did.
(Love the podcast, by the way.)
@@SlowPokerTime ultimately you made the right play and that’s what matters. I do find the question of what do you do if you have $2,000 behind very interesting though. If your player read was so strong what is the ultimate decision.
Thanks for the kind comment on the pod. And for sharing your hand!
@@lowlimitcashgamespodcast First, thanks for being one of the handful of people who understand why I called Bart. The overwhelming consensus in the comments has been SNAP-SHOVE, YOU NIT MORON, ALSO DROP DOWN IN STAKES, SCARED-MONEY LOSER. Which is amusing on a number of levels, but I digress.
Your question is the one that fascinated me the most. Given I didn't have much behind, I did tank, but not too long, and decided that I'll shove and if it's a cooler then hey, what a wild moment that was marginally more expensive to experience.
If I had $2,000 behind, however, I'd like to think I'd have spent more time in the tank and would've eventually landed on these two conclusions (all with the caveat that I now have the benefit of hindsight):
1) If I'm in villain's shoes with QQ, I'd have to start building the pot at some point prior to the river. (I did have this thought at the table when he raised river, but maybe I'd have reminded myself of this a few extra times.)
2) Hold on, he could have 88 or 77!!! And while I'd ruled out those holdings, given most players in my experience don't threebet 88 or 77 from the BU facing a UTG open, hey, you never know, and there are quite a few more combinations of 88 and 77 than the one combination of QQ.
So my sense is that maybe I still find the shove even if we were deeper.
Maybe.
@@SlowPokerTime Telling people to drop down in stakes doesn’t enhance your game or theirs lol. It’s just noise from people only capable of noise.
I do agree that it’s so hard for QQ to check twice. Would they have checked AQ or KQ on the flop? Not likely. QQ is the only realistic Q holding left and you would likely call a turn bet with any reasonably holding because they did check flop. We has to greatly discount any single queen holding because of the flop check that a call with value is almost mandatory.
On a broader 30,000 feet view I find quad hands interesting to discuss in general. When it’s top quads you are in such a weird spot as far as building a pot. Under quads less nuanced.
Appreciate the discussion and the hand. Keep grinding!
@@lowlimitcashgamespodcast Excellent points. I guess I'll stay subscribed to your podcast.
Omg this sounds like someone playing above their bankroll here scared of quads only 800 in a lodge match the stack game that is weak sauce bro come on go back to 1-2 game or something seriously
Ruthless take but you’re right. If he has quads or Q9 Q8 so be it 😂
@@jerellopes exactly. It’s just a cooler, it’s RARE. Move on
harsh words but quite true
@@TargetDown2 See my comment above, everybody. Not about bankroll. But I can see why you'd assume that. It's the wrong assumption, but I get it.
Bang bang 🤣🤣
Nice Thumbnail splice at 19:19
I caught the blip too at around 19:20
I haven't even finished watching the video, but having seen similar spots to this many times, I can say that the most likely holding here is 8-8, which is a no brainer raise for villain. That's the main hand you have to target. Even if he is capable of hero folding a flush, the set of 8s alone is worth it since it costs nothing when he folds. ...let's see if I'm right.
“I could definitely see someone possibly” lol Q8 Of clubs makes sense. Pocket 8s make sense… now let’s see the river…
HA!
If you’re not gonna play the river this way, and this hand doesn’t get you past your fear, IN TEXAS, maybe time to take a break. Even if you give villain both the Q9 off, this is still a shove.
Q9o was out of the question for me. It's just that his river raise confused me. Now that I know his actual hand it's clear, but in game, I was stumped. I'd never been in that position before where quads was the only hand that made any sense. It's not that I was frazzled or fearful or need a break - I was fascinated. It was a fun set of questions to consider.
Bro, it is 88 super high %% after the river action, whoever does not see that gona have a big problem to make living from poker, but from the other side it is live poker in usa where people are still in 2007 🤝🤝
Nice hand🙄🙄
To be precise: It is about ALWAYS 88; any flush,or JT, would really be extremely weirdly played,
while 77 would just qualify for the WSOP title in the Sandbag category.^^
I just ruled out 88 as a bit of a wide button 3bet facing an UTG open. In hindsight, now it all makes sense. But in the moment, I couldn't get there.
@@SlowPokerTime it is becouse you look at preflop range charts and you dont have any real feeling for the flow of the game, and if chart tell you that is low frequency you are blind to see the real flow of the game and that is where you miss the obvious things, anyway good luck at your game and try to improve more 🤝🤝
@@markomirkovic159 Next time I'll try not to miss the obvious things, and not be so blind to the real flow of the game (because I should really open up my eyes to the real flow of the game - I mean it's right there in front of me, right??), and in the meantime, I will try to improve more. It's the Improving More part that I keep forgetting.
@@SlowPokerTime beautifully said ❤️
Callers poker paranoid. Slam dunk jam. If he’s got QQ bless his heart give him the money reach into your pocket pull out some cash and go onto the next hand
Fair to assume I'm paranoid, since I definitely sounded that way on the call. In reality, though, that's not how I felt at the table, where it was simply about putting the guy on a hand. Almost definitely not a flush and my mistake for missing 88 as an option, so I was intrigued by what he could possibly have. And in the moment QQ was the only thing that made sense so it was amusing to think about. I was high-fiving myself the whole hand until the river raise and then I'm all, "Wait, what? Could it be? No, it couldn't be. Wait, WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE?" And then if QQ is all that made sense, what then? The main response on this page seems to be "Dude! Just get it in! What's your problem? Who CARES if it's a cooler??" and I understand that mentality. (And I did get it in, everyone - in case you missed that part. In the end, didn't care if it was a cooler.) I'm just looking at this in a more layered way, just for fun - if you can only land on quads, then do you ever approach the river in a different way? It's not paranoid but logical/philosophical.
I guess we’re just reading the hand different. I understand your thinking but given the way the hand played out Villain should have way more flushed than quads imo… kudos to you for eventually getting over the paranoia and getting all the money in
@@tomignacios3668 Bart said, too, that villain could definitely have a flush. I just disagree with you both, but that's okay. And again, this wasn't paranoia, but I gave off that vibe on the call, so I get that, too!
LMAO brainstorming about how badly you’re gonna roast this guy in the thumbnail
Always Be Contentin'
@@SlowPokerTime I had skipped through I didn’t know it was you I’m sorry 😭😭
@@BittyPlaysPoker Frankly, I'm jealous. I always wait till the last minute to figure out my episode title and thumbnail. Good on Bart for getting ahead of it!
I haven’t finished but if he doesn’t jam river, I suggest he stop playing
This video was hard to watch
@@Mbougie I thought you wanted me to jam river. I DID EVERYTHING YOU ASKED ME TO DO, DAD!
@@SlowPokerTime nice job finding the mandatory Jam!
@@Mbougie I had to dig deep.
Is he still talking?
You guys overthink this stuff. I'd start betting once I flopped middle set to get hands that could beat me to fold.
This dude needs to play about half a million hands online to get over the bad beats.
With respect to this callers MUBSY feelings, 6 max cash game online, a player playing 41vpip1pfr after 85 hands limps UTG. 146.5BB effective stack, so not super deep. Folds to me in the SB I make it 5BB with 6c6d, BB folds, UTG calls. Flop is ATThhs, I do not have a heart. I cbet 4BB, v calls. Turn is the 6s. I bet 16BB into 20BB, V calls. River is 7s, (completing a SF). V has 121.5 BB left, I bet 34 BB into a 51BB pot, V jams. I beat some spade nut flushes so I sigh and call, V shows quads, I 😆.
13 minutes later, UTG at 103.2 BB effective running 19/16 opens to 2.5x, I flat with QhQc in the CO. HU to a QsKc9s flop. V checks, I bet 3.2BB. Turn Ad, v checks, I bet 14BB into 12.9, V calls, 40.9BB In the pot with an SPR of about 2. River Ac, V checks again, I bet 32BB, V jams. I have to sigh call again since I can't ever have better. V rolls over AKo and I call it a night 🌙. Lmao. Poker is fun 😀.
If you are going to be that concerned about running into the nuts when you have the second nuts, then stop playing poker. the player had a good read on the turn - that if the opponent had QQ, they would start building the pot, they didn't so either a lower boat or a flush but would you raise with a flush on a paired board?
Well, obviously your first sentence isn't applicable here, since I shoved my stack in the middle. But the rest of your comment is exactly why I called Bart. Because under pressure I hadn't considered 88, and there WERE no better boats that would've played this way, and therefore I thought it was a fun choice set on the river. Because of the lack of pot-building by the villain - and frankly because I didn't have many big blinds behind - I just whatever-shoved despite my feeling that only quads made sense. But I'm laughing to myself because if I think it's quads, couldn't one argue that shoving is irrational?
@@SlowPokerTime Hi, when I say "you" in the first line, I mean it as the generic you - as in anyone. In poker, you will not have the nuts each time but probably still the best hand. In this case, if the guy had QQ then it's just a cooler. There's no decision here, it was a call all day long at a minimum.
@@JimBuckleyBarrett Right on. Sorry to lump you into the same category of 95% of commenters who keep screaming that I'm a scared-money nit despite the fact that I shoved. You actually understand why I called Bart. We agree that at these stack depths it's always a shove and if it's a cooler, so be it. It's the larger logical question that intrigued me. I'd wondered - especially in a theoretical world if we're far deeper - if the decision ever changes. Probably not, but at least worth mulling over...
@@SlowPokerTime Even if you had pocket 7s, you're still beating a lot of hands - obviously, the river would be sick in that scenario but I can't see any fold here for you - maybe flat call with pocket 7s, as you are losing to q9, 99, 88 and of course qq. You were so strong with 9s here, even if he did turn up with QQ, it's a big cooler. If he had anything like q7, q9 etc. he would have played it differently from the flop and probably preflop ;). Wins and coolers are all part of the game. Anyways, nice hand! PS Ignore the haters, just keyboard warriors living in mammy's basement.
@@JimBuckleyBarrett Couldn't agree more with all of the above. My mistake was preflop-ranging button with TT+ which is why the river action stopped me in my tracks. And yes, while it's hilarious that the response to my shove has been primarily, "SCARED BABY, WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOVE?" - I should not be surprised for a second. Keyboard warriors gonna keyboard warrior.
Turn check is beyond horrible, you need to start building a pot. Ace high will call bet and TT will fold to a checkraise.
The only reasonable hand that would have had him beat was Q8♦️
Yeah Q8 3bets UTG open and checks flop and turn.. well done sir
Lol, we've all been there, in an everlasting down swing
Scared of every dealer and any two cards
Not just any two cards. Only two cards. 😉
@@SlowPokerTime haha yeah. I think that as you learn more about poker your going through less "down swings" just because you're thinking about poker more and more as pure mathematics and variations.
But man oh man, iil never forget my 3 weeks in vegas of 2017.
I had about 300 pocket aces and lost all most of all them.
I remember 2 situations in particular.
One was when I was delt an aces and then the dealer exposed my other card that was a 7, she gave me q new card, ace naturally, I 3beted a guy and he called, flop came 8 8 2. He had 86 suited lol
The second time was at the end, like 7 hours before my flight. I was so scared and just wanted it all to end but my friend talked me into it
So its 10 morning, brand new table, I buy in for 300, on the 3rd round I get the aces, 3bet and the flop is k q x, we go all in the guy has kq off. I buy in for another 300, and 2 hands later gets kk. Again I 3bet, he shoves I snap, hes got qq.
And sure enough, queen on the window
600 usd in 7 hands
Nightmare
@@גיאאבןצור-צ6ד I'm just gonna start open-folding aces. They're clearly trash.
Love slow poker , give him a follow , he may post more hilarious clips
Thanks, Gavin! I'm getting a comical amount of hate in these comments, so it's refreshing to see some support/love. I just thought it was an interesting river moment - kind of reminded me of debates in high school philosophy class - but the focus seems to instead be on just screaming "NIT!!" as loudly as possible (despite the fact that I, y'know, shoved). Oh well. Thanks for watching my show! (And I've already started writing the episode that'll feature this hand - should be a fun one.)
I relate to your channel more than most because I totally get the humour to a tee . I’ve played poker nearly 20 years , I played poker for a living 2014-2019 but have kids and a stable job and it’s far better for it to be a profitable hobby than the chore it became . I totally get your channel and look forward to the videos . The same people who are just shouting ‘nit’ and criticising have probably never played the amount of hours you have and been in the same situation over and over again to not even contemplate what river raise could be . Most river raises are the nuts . Just in this instance because of the lack of value betting prior we should assume some other hands make up villains raising range too . Above all else you came to right conclusion and got the max . Keep up the Great videos . Deserve far higher viewership
@@SlowPokerTime To be fair to the nit-shamers, when listening to the call in real-time, you spent a lot of time _talking_ about being worried about quads. I.e. _one_ combo. Obviously, the actual _action_ you took on the river was correct, but the _impression_ that listeners/viewers might have formed would be influenced by what percentage of the call you spent mentioning the worst-case scenario.
That aside, I'm a vlog-watcher and subscriber, and have to agree with this general thesis: cautious reaction to river-raises is a winning strategy from 1/2 up to 2/5.
I.e. I support that signature Slow-Poker style, so GG!
@@alistairwillock7266 I couldn't agree more with all that you've said here. I may have taken a little dramatic license when I sounded nervous on the call. It's true that I'd been rocked by sandbagged sets and quads of late - and it's hard for me to shake that feeling - but for THIS hand? At the table, quads never truly crossed my mind as a possibility until the river raise, at which point I struggled to consider 88 (just didn't put that in his preflop BU vs. UTG range) and therefore was just mystified by the massive raise. I definitely sounded shell-shocked on the call with Bart, but in reality, at the table I was more quietly amused/confused/intrigued instead of OH NO NOT AGAIN.
Thanks for the support of my channel! I think you'll like the Slow Poker spin I put on this one...
@@gavinblakeway 🙂
a10 spades or 88s i would out villian on
Ok time to go to the Lodge
thanks bart
Ok first of all, the sizing on the river by villian looks EXACTLY like pocket 8s. I even said 88 outloud before the ending. Think about it: if Villian has QQ or Q9, he'd know Hero has no Q or likely DOESNT have a queen and he'd raise for VALUE instead of $425 from $90. He'd WANT to get called. He cant assume Hero has 77, Q7, or 99 if he has Q9. So he'd try to milk hero. The fact he makes it $425 with 8s full on the river, hes HOPING HERO can never laydown hands like AQ, KQ, and thus his line of thinking makes the most sense.
Sometimes you gotta use your brain in these situations. What makes sense, what doesnt.
Man I wish I'd used my brain. Gotta stop using my elbow in these spots.
@@SlowPokerTime well I'm not dissing you I'm just saying follow the logic. What makes sense? If villian has exactly QQ, you're either betting thin value on river, or bluffing entirely. He'd want to get paid, so that raise is way too big. Thats all im saying.
@@charlesnewborn3760 Love this point. And it's why the sizing confused me. Good on you for landing on 88. In the heat of the moment, 88 just didn't enter into my brain. Maybe if I was at home, looking at this minus the pressure of the moment it would've been more obvious.
@@SlowPokerTime I actually this is the most interesting takeaway from this hand for you (and for me too, TBH): Why didn't you come up with 88? I.e. what can you do differently in your off-table work to help you parse the decision tree more consistently when you're _at_ the table?
That's what I ask myself all the time at this point in my poker journey: how do I get my in-flight analysis quality to converge to a better approximation of what I can manage in off-table analysis (or as an on-table bystander)? So thanks for your call-in, because it's stimulating me to think about that question from a potentially slightly different angle.
@@alistairwillock7266 Great question. I'm still relatively new to poker, and sometimes my brain missteps more when the pressure's on. Ideally after more hours playing live - or, as you put it, in-flight (which I love) - that'll improve.
This caller needs to play 1/2 with $100 buy
I'm still waiting for someone to bet....
It's several weeks later, and I'm STILL checking.
Why cant he have 888? If he has 88 as played in any frequency we gotta shove this.
Edit:
Spoiler alert:
Why is this even a question for callin? It answers itself dude.
I answered this in a whole bunch of other comments. Just poke around.
slooooww poker!
DNeg snap folds here
This guy must get bluffed A LOT
Brad Owens is proof that you can play like a nit and make a living in Vegas
13:43... Losing to Q9? 😝🐒😭🐺😂🐔
Sounds like this guy has played poker maybe 20 times but has watched 1000’s of hours of TH-cam livestreams/Bart
19 times.
Bet the flop raise
Honey; he can only call me with one combo out of hundreds!!!
Phil would've folded. Slow Poker > #positvity
@@SlowPokerTime 1,000,000 percent this 🤣
Slow poker sounds snake bit
Fewer combos, not less combos.
At very least the turn is a bet.
I agree. As luck would have it, the misplay worked out.
I jam and if he has it, he gets my money too
Honestly that was my decision in the end. Quads was the only hand that made sense at the time, so I thought to myself, "Y'know what? If it's quads, I'll pay a little extra to see the disgusting reveal." Kind of like a Ticketmaster service charge.
Flop middle set check. Turn boat. Check. I quit watching
Ha! I was waiting for a check-raise opportunity twice and it never presented itself. Worked out in the end. Had I bet at any point, he folds and there are no river fireworks. But yeah, I was this close to leading turn but got the vibe a bet was coming. I was dead. wrong.
Curiosity got me, and I went back and watched the rest. Great outcome!
@@SlowPokerTime what an appropriate username lol
@@MrJabbafett I only tanked on the river for a half hour, so that's a bit of an overstatement.
When I get raised on that river im pushing all my chips in plus the deed to my house. If you have QQ then take my money
I am writing this as I watch the hand unfold,
I make a $50-$70 bet on the flop is my move.
$100-$125 on the turn is my bet,
River, $275 bet…
Remember that I was out of position. On a dry, rainbow flop nobody should ever donk-lead with middle set on that flop. But generally speaking, yes, I would've rather built the pot at some point. Turns out the river card did yeoman's work.
Bart is very patient. If I was in his shoes, i just said grow up you little child and then come back again.
I finally stopped wetting the bed yesterday, so at least that's progress.
Is this the guy who played a 12% VPIP in the softest line up in LA?
Nit-O Poker
(sigh) This isn't about being a nit. It's about hand-reading. I thought it was interesting, but everyone is so hung up that it's about scared money when it isn't. Oh well.
Love the pun, though. Kinda. Actually, no, I take it back. Workshop it and come back to me.
@@SlowPokerTime Your hand reading is obviously trash
Bart please see the shower-head episode of Seinfeld. Enjoy 💇🏽
Easy shove. If you are that shell shocked where are you are going to be afraid of losing 300 more dollars to monster under the bed, you’re playing too big.
Lol, bro took one too many recent bad beats.
Any player vs this guy: +50 fold equity
"Tanking going thru the hand that beats me" the one, single, hand that beats you? 😂😂
In my defense, he could've had five sevens.