Final Skiff Shootout. Which One Will I Build Next?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- In this final shootout between the previous winners and two more designs I chose, I will show you which skiff meets all the requirements for my next build. These are very specific requirements and the main one is the ability to be cartopped!
I talk you through my choices in each particular category and explain why I choose a particular winner for each.
In the end I share my final thoughts on this matter.
Very different boats but all great designs to chose from.
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This is actually a really good primer for designers about how to balance criteria. The result will of course be different if a different person does the scoring. But for a technical discussion of all the points from the perspective of a builder - every designer needs to know this. I learned a couple of things.
The only area where I would suggest more analysis is needed is weight. It is actually a bit hard to work out weights for someone wanting to build a boat. The best quick way is to look at the building materials and count up the sheets of ply multiplied by the thickness of each. The more scrap there is - the less this is a good estimate - but at the same time boats with too much scrap should be penalised as well - that is an important area of product design. And it has sent me back to the drawing board more than once when a lovely boat I've drawn up just fits badly or not at all on a sensible number of plywood sheets.
Looking at the final big chart of results it looks like the Mebo (when using Teo's criteria) ends up with a very high result too. Equal to the Goat which Teo clearly loves.
It's also an excellent example of how to use a decision matrix to make a complex decision. And anyway, you can't look at a boat while you're sailing it!
@@nickgoodall578 A truly acidic compliment! I'm going to use that one - excellent!
😂
@@TheBoatRambler I feel like you might be a shill for Mr Storers boat designs except I cant fault your logic and decisions
@@akcarlos maybe he just makes simple boats that work! 😁😁
I think of myself as a sailor who values function over form; the ocean is no place for fashion-victims.
You have assesed the Oz Goose dinghy as the most suitable for your requirements, using cold, scientific reason and practicality as your yard stick.
So, why am i struggling with the anesthetic? Its beauty is in it's usefulness, surely? I just can't get around the look of this sailboat.
Teo, you're making me think less of myself.
🤣
You're not alone, I did evaluated the Goose and the GIS before I built the Goat. And I decided in favor of the GIS precisely because I was in love with the GIS lines for almost 20 years! Now that I have one I can build a Goose! 😁
The ocean is no place for fashion victims ???
These are small sailing dinghies , not blue water cruisers .
Box boats like the Goose will never be to everyone`s taste .
Regardless , they do all things a good dinghy should be capable of.
I`m still building Jim Michalak`s Piccup Squared .
It sails well ,it`s comfortable for one or two , lots of sealed flotation , very open spacious cockpit , and you can row it and cartop it too.
Thanks for the series Teo. It seems that there are many of us who have been hoping that you would ultimately select the Oz Goose and do build videos as you go along.
And for what it’s worth I doubt that I’m the only person who will appreciate the additional value to the Oz Goose following from your quality videos. I really appreciate the effort that you put into all of them. In particular the build series for the GIS I had never seen similar.
Mik Storer will love it.
Regarding the Goose Explorer, I’ve always thought that the design was a lot less popular than it deserves to be. I was attracted to it for the instant cover in bad weather and a spot to keep cargo dry during sailing; not to mention the cabin for sleeping overnight, and no packing up of a tent in the morning.
I decided on the Oz Goose for my personal preference pretty much because it would be easier to build and cooler to sail. But I still liked those creature comforts of the Explorer. I had earlier bought the plans for the Ooze Goose for the same reasons. But the Ooze Goose had a lot more windage and this newer version overcomes a lot of that.
So, I had thought that perhaps I could try to replicate a folding rip stop nylon version of the cabin which was supported by light Aluminium tubing I might be able to save the weight and building effort and still hold onto the cooler sailing advantage of the Oz Goose.
As you would know in Portugal, being inside a cabin in any season other than winter can be humid stuffy and unbearably hot. Same here in Australia, at least where I tend to live.
I can’t wait to see you start work on the new boat. Your family will love it.
Hi buddy,
If I didn't want to cartop it I would pick the Explorer!
But I'll build the Goose which actually ends up being very versatile if I get a quick set up tent/cabin made of canvas and glass fiber rods, or t least that's what I have in my head atm!
In Portugal during summer we can just sleep looking at the stars, no cover needed. Maybe a net for the mozzies! 😅
@@TheBoatRambler ah yes, those mozzies. In river banks and marshy areas we have midgies too (those biting insects that are so small they pass through even tight woven mesh). If there’s any wind it’s normally fine, but still evenings close to shore they can be horrible.
In tropical or subtropical areas like where we live, sudden tropical summer storms are common. It would be a gamble to sleep under the stars I think.
In summer is very rare we get any rain here let alone sudden downpours. 😎
Jimmy Skiff II with an Oz Goose sail would still be my personal choice. Just love the pointy boat look more.
Love the Goose, It looks the way it needs to look in order to function at its best and I really like that. The videos of them planing are really impressive.
Right on
Function >= form👍
@@nickgoodall578goes like a bat out hell in 20 kts but looks like a tub in 5. So while function is greater than form you do have to consider all functions. There’s a reason boat shapes progressed over time from a dugout log (the Goose) to pointed in the bow slightly broad at the stern (all the other boats in this review)
Yet optimists are still around and scows are coming back even for transantlantic boats.
long pointy overhang bows were used to increase LWL when heeled due to max lwl rules.
Every modern boat has plumb bows now, and some have inverted bows!!! Designs change and criteria evolves according to needs and sometimes fashion too! 😉
@@TheBoatRambler all the designs you mentioned get narrower at the bow unlike the Goose
I’m not surprised the OZ Goose came out on top. If you can think outside the box, you’re gonna love that design. The only way to improve it would be to find a handful of friends to share the fun of building and sailing the Goose, so it becomes a club boat. Thanks for your videos.
Thanks for your feedback!
think outside the box hahaha, maybe you mean think in the box.
Decision making worksheets are absolutely great for taking the emotion out of the decision. The trouble is, boats are emotional. You really need a line that says, which one tugs at my heart. That might alter the scores a little. BTW, you got the scores the wrong way round for Goose and Explorer on either roof top or weight on the final sheet. It wouldn't have changed the decision. Just put it more in Goose favour. It looks like a good decision to me. I look forward to seeing your build.
I do look at the Mebo and want to build one but then I remember all the advantages of the Goose and forget about the Mebo! 😁
You are correct the Goose should be 5 on weight.
I build my Goose in 2020, learned to saild on it, it is a great boat, capsized only once intentionaly just to make sure I could check how it works, and just like that only drops of whater stay inside, nevertheless it is a fast boat, one could call it ugly but in my club everyone came to check it out, got the nickname of a optmist for adults kkkk, I move one to a small trailable cruiser, but I miss my Goose... it is now in a school teatching new young sailers!
Please keep us updated on the build. Just from the video reactions alone (including mine) I can already tell this boat will have many people's attention.... And can't wait to see an end-of-season comparison between your two dingies.
BOTH designed by Michael Storer.
Will do!
And the winner is......that fits all the boxes ......THE BOX
😁
ha ha ... could say the box it outside the box. :)
We are borg, resistance is futile.
@@frederickwood9116 We do use the Borg line here in the Philippines.
Also we say we are spreading the Goosepel.
@@MikStorer I have been watching the pdRacer and related boats for a while. Haven’t yet gotten around to building one. I did a Bumblebee which I highly recommend for the under 6 age group. Just my contribution to “spreading the good word” 😏 It’s so small they really get to feel ownership of the vessel while at young as 2. 🚢
I started a Summer Breeze which I recall was championed by a few Philippine based people. I should finish that before I start another 😂
Happy sailing.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It comes down to how capable the boat looks to you when you are planning your journey, so The Goose looks beautiful in that regard. The Mebo 12 looks like it may be a more comfortable ride on average and it is an absolutely gorgeous hull. I also like the Mebo 12 because it is so light and elegant with a lug rig of course.
Hi Isaac,
I agree the Mebo is a little gem.
But the peace of mind you get by having so much stability on the Goose and no water to bail or flood all your gear it's just unsurpassable! I might change my mind on the design once I get to sail one but for now it's my choice!
@@TheBoatRambler Awesome I look forward to seeing the Goose on your channel. I'm sure you will make us all want to build one as your videos are great.
Really pleased you are considering the Oz Goose Explorer. As well as agreeing with the practical benefits, I actually always thought it looked wonderful aesthetically. My mum and I were in delight at how cute it looks with the cabin and portholes. The cabin will also act as a windbreak when beating or at anchor in cooler weather
I'm interested about the Mebo 12. Please make this video. Once more: thank you for your great content here on TH-cam.
Been waiting for this one, excellent video as always.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Once again the jimmy skiff is a versatile choice and easy to build
Ĺife is too short to build one boat. But if your life is short...OZ Goose. Your grandchildren will love it.
You couldn't go wrong with a second GIS as well, as you know exactly what to expect. Good looking and a great performer. I guess I'm not helping much as I love all the top runners Jimmy skiff as well lol.
glad you found the boat that suits all your needs ,i,m looking forwards to watching the build videos
Thanks! Just need to save some more money to go and buy the plywood and the resin!
Refitting a 30ft cruiser isn't cheap! 😉
Good choice! Simple, high performance, and very inexpensive boat to build and maintain. I just repainted the hull on my Oz Goose yesterday, to be ready for next summer. Today we had snow flurries so it was just in time.
This has been really fascinating. Thanks for taking us all on this journey of discovery. I didn’t realise how much the sailing snob in me is biased against the square goose or the PD racer. Especially when they perform so well on so many points.
Just to make you feel better - your biases were the same as the designer at the beginning of looking at these square boats. We built two 8ft versions almost as a joke and because we are Australian we made a further joke of putting a stupidly big sail - double the normal size on the little boat - and plan to cut it down after taking a few photos and videos for some chest puffing. Then we were surprised the 8ft boat stood up to 80sq ft of sail. And then that it had good handling qualities. And then started taking it to boatshows and being the last boat to come off the water when the wind blew crazy and the waves came up.
We were surprised at every stage. Assumptions are really difficult things to shake off!
Great choice! Can't wait to see you build the Goose. cool little boat.
I loved your evaluation of some very nice boats. It demonstrates that each owner's criteria is very specific to them and all prospective owners can use this method for their specific analysis. I will be interested in your videos on the build for the Oz Goose and your sailing adventures. I too am impressed with its performance and simplicity of design and construction. More discussion on the Mebo 12 will also be welcome. Thank you for sharing your sailing with your TH-cam viewers. Take care.
Glad you enjoyed it Jim!
Thank you for sharing! Very interesting to watch the explanation that led to the scoring and choice. It wasn't a surprise because from the beginning your enthusiasm was greater when talking about Goose. Despite the characteristics, it has one big drawback for me, it’s not romantic at all.. 😉
Thanks Joana,
I have lived my romance for 20 years, dreaming of and finally building and sailing my Goat Island Skiff. And yet again when I bought my 30ft cruiser after 30 years of dreaming about it. So... been there, done that, got the t-shirt! 😁
The Goose just makes sense, and it's still more romantic sailing it than struggling after a capsize on a flooded pretty boat!
Looking for the goose center board redesign, for easier sleeping room / cockpit space?. What are your ideas on an off center CB trunk running through the flotation inboard of the gunnel , amidships? I'm looking at building a Goose for the Texas 200 with a covered foredeck and a cockpit canopy as in Matt Layden's Enigma.
I'm not sure what structure can be removed or what would have to be added but if moving the CB I would just use the same centerboard case structure and glue it to the sidetank, protruding on the inside of the boat, leaving the tanks intact. Maybe @Michaelstorerboatplans can advise you better.
enjoy your goose, looking forward to the videos
I would love to hear more about the Melo 12. I am looking for something as a tender for a sailboat and had not heard of this design until recently.
Contact the designer he is really helpful. 😉
Love it, my 2 favorite boats before I even watched this video are the Oz and GIS
Thank you for putting this comparison together. I was wondering about OZ Goose vs traditional shape in a 12' boat. I built and sailed a PDRacer and am now looking for more room. So this was great to see how they compare. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! 😉
The Goose is one helluvah boat.
Fantastic breakdown. Thanks for the thorough analysis!
Thank you!
Great choice - when will you start the build?
PS.: bought my plans for the Oz goose 3 weeks ago 😊
Depends when can I save enough money to buy at least the plywood and the epoxy resin! 😅
With those CAD skills, did you consider designing your own? Is that something we might expect in future seasons?
There is a plan/will to design my own boat eventually, but the Hydrodynamics of the hull is something I need to learn how to mess with, either by learning a new software or ask for help from a designer.
The rest, from the waterline up, I can design myself. 😉
The Goose is a good choice. I like the Explorer more with the cabin but I can see how it wouldn't be the best fit for you.
Honestly if I didn't want to cartop I would choose the Explorer!
@@TheBoatRambler That's what I mean, The extra weight and bulk would make car topping more difficult.
Great video series! Can't wait to see the build out videos for your Goose.
You and me both! 😁
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO . ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THE SCAMP ? THANKS
The Scamp is one of my all time favorite designs, shame it's not what I was looking for this time around!
Thanks!
que daora cara. eu tinha penssado no goose quando no inicio da serie
nao posso espera o video do build
vento em popa pra voce camarada!
Obrigado! 😉
What a surprise! it's rational rather than emotional choice. I really enjoyed your videos and your opinions on each design. What software were you using to show the boat models?
Thanks for the feedback.
I use Catia V5
@@TheBoatRambler :O - That's a pretty high end piece of kit.
Hi Michael, 95% of my work has been done in Catia V5, 4% in ProEngineer/Creo and the rest in Inventor and NX Siemens. Catia has so much potential and so many different modules to learn. I used Surface and Solid modeling, Spatial analysis, Sheet metal forming, Stress analysis, Assembly, Draft analysis, Kinematics and a few more I cant even remember. And I believe in 10 years I have only seen the tip of the iceberg.
I just want to mention the Saturday Night Special by John Welsford, but you probably covered that in an earlier video!
Hi,
Yes I did on the 2nd shootout. If you want to know the scores you can watch that video. also in this video there is a table with all the scores from previous shootouts.
@TheBoatRambler thanks! Going to watch now !
Thinking of sailing from South Africa to Britain. Small sail boat.
I really don’t have the time to build a boat but I think I’m gonna have to build a goose at some point. If nothing else, out of shear curiosity, since I’ve never seen one in the flesh!
Great video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Enjoying your boat comparison series Teo, the Goose is an interesting boat for sure, may not have the lines of the Goat but it’s very practical. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, cheers
Thanks Ken!
@@TheBoatRambler hey Téo, if it’s not a hassle could you tell me the sizes of the side seats, my estimate is 200mm wide at frames 3 & 4. I’m about to turn my goat & start fitting out, thanks Ken
@@kens2114 I believe the widest part is 23cm, and they are parallel to each other.
If I go to the club tomorrow I'll double check. 😉
@@TheBoatRambler thanks, Teo
Hi @kens2114,
the tanks are 24cm at the widest part and 22cm by the centercase. but you can adjust this depending on your leg size and sailing position. Right at the start of "How to make Watertight Seats on a Skiff PART_1" I explain why I chose that width. take a look. th-cam.com/video/oxRU1uLg_R4/w-d-xo.html
Great detail in your analysis, much appreciated.
What design program are you using, looks quite capable for these compare's.
Hi,
I use Catia V5 since it's the software that I use at work as a Mech CAD designer.
Great episode. Big Storer fans here and love your videos. Thanks from Tassie - Mat & Jo.
Thanks for watching! 😉
Teo, this was an excellent conclusion to this short series of videos - I really enjoyed it and I think the Oz Goose is a great choice. However, I know that it is slower and short, but I like Michael's PD Racer (EDIT: to be specific, I bought the OzRacer RV plans). I bought the plans but haven't committed to building one, and I still might buy the Goose plans instead;-) Choices, choices...! Before anything else I need to spend more time sailing my current GRP dinghy which I modded with the GIS rig.
well, as long as you have a boat to sail while you decide what to build next it's not that serious! 😁
@@TheBoatRambler Very true!!!
@@ozzytorrential The advantage of the Oz Racer at 8ft is storage. Rig, sail and foils are almost identical to the goose.
But the goose performance is way better. Not to mention the capacity to take the extra person or people.
@@MikStorerAll clear and understood, Michael. And I should have added that I am really pleased that Teo has settled on another of your designs. I am really impressed by how much you manage to combine simplicity and performance through really smart design in your work. IMHO you are unique! Thanks, Adrian
i also have the plans for the PDracer. I'm looking at it being a fun day sailor. We sail a Hartley TS16 as our usual boat.
Realmente me quebre la cabeza pensando si existe un bote que supere al goose en los puntos de tu lista ...
me hubiera sorprendido que encontraras algo mejor que el goose, saludos desde Costa Rica🎉
Thank you!
Me gustaría ver un Oz goose en Costa Rica. Buen motivo por un viaje ahí
@@colrodrick8784 si Dios me da vida en el lago arenal sería el punto de vela se ve similar al lago ta'al dónde el señor storer nabega
Really good video. I would not have thought the Oz Goose was that good. Would you consider the Viola 14 by Storer? That looks very nice and has the floatation on the sides like the Goose. My only complaint about the Goose is that it does not look very good like a big rectangular box. Thanks.
Hi Dave,
The Viola is a wonderful boat but it does not meet any of my requirements other than being fast and cartoppable.
I want a in which boat I can sleep in a few nights if needed. 😉
Not really a surprise :-) Surly the Goose is a good choice for you. But from my point of view, you underrated the Jimmy Skiff - even if you don't want to build one.
Hi Gerald, thanks for your feedback.
It is very possible that I misjudged the Jimmy skiff(or others) in some way. I have never sailed them.
Can you be a bit more specific regarding the Jimmy Skiff? in which requirement do you think I underrated it?
Thanks
Teo
@@TheBoatRambler You rated sailing fun and no bailing low without much background from my point of view.
Hi Gerald! Thanks for your feedback.
The reason for bad fun score is that a boat smaller and heavier than the GIS with such a small sail can't be that fun , imho.
It won't be fast, you won't need to be on your toes and actively sailing it compared to others and it would take a lot of wind to plane with that sail.
As for no bailing, it got a 4 on the final table with all scores adjusted. A design with no side tanks at gunwale level will always have some water left inside. I can't give it the same score as a Goose which has no water left after a capsize.
Even if I had given the design top marks for fun, it still wouldn't beat the Mebo 12, The GIS or any of the Gooses.
Of course this is just my opinion. 😉
I`m Building Jim Michalak `s Pickup Pram.
If you keep any of them outside, would you cover it with a tent like structure to avoid rain collecting in the boat?
If the build would be mine - i would opt in for the explorer instead, the boxy look wouldn't bother me at all. Could use the extra protected storage area and also enjoy some of the warmth of the cabin at chilly nights (i'm 58 degrees north), that's why i'd pick it over the regular goose. And yeah, my car is a 4x4 with a hitch, so wouldn't have issues towing it either if needed :D
Good choice!
I want to cartop so it really had to be the Mebo or the Goose.
Here we get around 41F in winter, with the worst days maybe 32F.
I do keep my goose undercover both for UV and rain protection
If storing a boat outside there are two important things ... keeping all water out and good ventilation. If using a boat every week a good tarpaulin can be enough - and replace it when it starts wearing out - it is cheaper and easier than repairing a boat.
When leaving a boat for longer periods put it upside down and raised off the ground and then put the tarpaulin over.
The gooien may fit all the boxes, but for me it would be a problem that the goose looks too much like box and not enough like a boot. The eye also wants something.
I understand, but I already built one amazingly good looking boat, my Goat Island Skiff!
Now I need something different...😉
Great series. Thanks. Two sort of unrelated questions. (1) What CAD software are you using and how did you get the models for each of the finalists (2) what is the electronics in the back ground of this video. Do you have a CNC?
Hi,
I use Catia V5 and the video was shot in my little workshop but I don't have any CNC.
I hope Michael Storer buys you a coffee!
🤣😂
Hi, thank you for videos! Could you compare Radosław Werszko to others?
I have compared them before (no video) all of his boats have really nice lines but are both too heavy and too beamy to be cartopable. The 4.0m Dayboat is 50% heavier than the GIS/Goose and has no built-in floatation that I can see.
Great boat for different needs. 😉
Very interesting. I wonder how the goose or goose explorer would look if extended to a point? Obviously would be 16' long or more. I do like the idea of a cabin on such a small boat. I look forward to seeing how the boat comes together and how it sails.
Thanks Ben!
I would love to have that cabin too! but I want it to be easier to cartop. I'll find a way of making one in canvas or something! 😉
@@TheBoatRambler A canvas cabin is a great idea! I look forward to seeing her sail!
@@TheBoatRamblerTeo I have thought of the same approach.
To have a point the sides need a curve. The special ability of a rectangular planform is the enormous stability. Our starting point was an 8ft version with the same 89sqf sail. This was originally a joke and we intended to cut the sail down to a more sensible size after a few photos and videos and chest puffing.
But the surprise was the 8ft boat handled double the normal sail area for this size boat with no trouble at all. This is more that 10sqft more sail than a Laser (ILCA) dinghy.
The goose inherits the same rig and is much much faster than the 8ft version. It just loves extending its speed and has much better handling qualities than most pointy nosed boats when overpowered or sticking the nose into the back of a wave going downwind at speed. No spearing off one way or the other as the bow takes over.
The goose is noise in a short chop before there is enough wind to pick up speed. With speed the bow comes up because of the rocker aft and it is the underside of the boat that contacts the waves. A pointy bow on the same hull would be a long way above the water at this point.
Very beautiful analysis Teo. I watched all the 4 videos, but haven't listen why you choose to built GIS and not Oz goose , initially? Also since light weight and carttopable ability is so important for you, did you consider Viola 14, being a lot lighter~ 30kg? 50kg of goose , aren't a lot for one person to load upload 4 times in a day? Or do you plan to car top it sporadically? I am anxious see your videos, building that boat :-) nice work on filming GIS
Hi Gregory,
I first saw the GIS sometime back in the year 2000 I believe, and just fell in love with its simplicity and beautiful lines.
At the time I couldn't build a boat and kept dreaming of doing so someday. Over the next 2 decades I kept trying to find a boat that would beat the GIS and looked just as good to me...it just didn't happen. So when the C19 started and I lost my job I decided I would finally build the GIS. I guess you can say it was love at first sight! 😁
@@TheBoatRambler ohhh that love complicates everything, even boat building :-) So now since light construction and cartopability is your main focus, didn't you consider Viola 14? 50kg aren't too much for one person to load upload twice for a daily sail? Or do you consider to cartop it, sporadically?
I need a boat which can carry 2 ppl in good wind and up to 4 ppl in calmer conditions for a short trip.
Regarding the weight, I don't expect to lift that much by hand, I will have to create some system so that it takes little to no effort to lift the boat.
@@TheBoatRambler please show me a good system to load upload Oz goose to make my decision easier. I am between building viola or Oz goose. Like a lot Oz goose except weight, so I am inclined to viola, but it's ability to carry one only person , is a very big compromise 😔. I would love to be able to sail with my kids or wife, with an easily cartopable boat.
A quick search on youtube showed a few, from the most complex to the simplest. Pick your poison... 😅
th-cam.com/video/nlPyVSIsgAc/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/8-cc7XPZjYw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/HsIKMeSC6_4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/dt950vQP_AI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/NDokKeHuSmI/w-d-xo.html
Ahora que tenemos bote, cuando comienza la construcción debería ser un trabajo rápido
Hi,
I will start the build as soon as I can save enough money to buy the plywood, epoxy and lumber.
The remaining stuff I'll buy as I go along 😉
Acompanhando esta série de videos e vendo os comentários, pude perceber que a escolha pelo OZ Goose seria inevitável.. heheh
Mesmo assim, fiquei ansioso pelo desfecho, pois pretendo construir um barco com praticamente os mesmo critérios, mas incluindo um, o de remar.
Por isso, no final das contas, acho que o Oz Goose não atende a minha necessidade.
Me parece que a hidrodinamica do OG é pra planar, exigindo um minimo de velocidade, não me parece que funciona bem remando, bem como a posição para remadeiras ficaria esquisita com a borda tão larga.
Ficaria entre o Mebo12 e o JimmySkiff 2,
como tenho 1,92m de altura, para dormir dentro do barco no JM2 seria possível, mas a armação parece complicada e cara.
no Mebo 12, com ripas transversais, seria possivel dormir dentro, mas também precisaria adaptação de armação para a lug sail.
Poderia me dar uma luz?
Boa sorte na construção, estarei acompanhando esta serie de videos daqui do Brasil.
Abraço.
Acho o Jimmy skiff mais fácil de construir. Se você não quiser carregar seu skiff no topo do carro, eu escolheria um GIS, ele rema lindamente e é rápido. Se você quiser carregar no carro, eu escolheria o Mebo, pois é 10kg mais leve que o Jimmy Skiff. O designer irá ajudá-lo com a vela.
I find the Jimmy skiff easier to build. If you don't want to cartop your skiff I would go for a GIS, it rows beautifully and it is fast. If you want to cartop I would go for the Mebo as it's 10kg lighter than the Jimmy skiff. The designer will help you with the lug sail.
The Goose can be rowed - but it isn't a big pleasure.
00:14. I couldn’t work out what software this is? Thanks. Laurie. NZ. 😊
Vi Laurie, it's CATIA V5
Duck, duck, duck, goose!?!?!?
😁
I building a PD racer an 8ft goose
Just checked how much a car can take on as a roof load - seems to depend on the car… some can have. nothing, max seems to be about 100 kg. So if you think of building a new cartoppable boat you may also need to change cars…. We had once a car with max load of 25 kg. Not a small one that was…
My Ford Focus van can take 70Kg on the roof rack, Max! so I need a hull under 60kg. 😉
Okay, go for it, but boat and ship construction has been evolving for millenia. There has got to be a reason no one has said, "A rectangular box is the best design."
"Best design" is a comparison between pros and cons relative to intended use...
As for evolving designs...Mini Transats now have rounded/flat scow bows.
Why? because for the intended use, which is mostly sailing with winds aft of the beam, that shape brings advantages.
Also Scow moths have as much of fast as they have squareness!
There is no "best design" for all or for every situation. 😉
Everyone who loves their Goose will attest to the fact that beauty, character, charm and pure excitement are more than skin deep... 👣🕊👽
The really weird thing is if our culture was used to flat nosed boats - like many East Asian traditional designs - the pointy nosed boats would all look weird. Aesthetics is a viewpoint that is learned through repetition and cultural bias. Some part of aesthetics might be universal - symmetry, smoothness, proportion but pointy or curvy vs blunt and flat are purely cultural and culture changes with time as well as location.
A good example of how quickly this can change is when rating/handicap rules allowed genoas to come back behind the mast a very long way without the area being measured for handicapping/rating (late 1940s) then all fast and serious yachts had genoas - it was free area even if it was very inefficient area. They became our sense of what was normal and what was fast and eventually it became the standard for what was cool/beautiful.
It was wrong of course. Where true sail area is measured a genoa is nothing but a waste of money. Not to mention harder on the crew, expensive for large winches that are needed and expensive furling systems and probably the need for several sails in the foretriangle. And no boat that measures actual sail area has genoas in the standard sailplan.
But we became used to looking at boats with genoas as being "beautiful" and "fast" very quickly from the late 40s to the early '60s our idea of aesthetics and performance had been skewed for no real good reason other than it fitted with the handicapping system at the time.
@@MikStorer The flat-nosed nutshell pram is, for instance, very attractive. But that's no reason to pretend that the Ozy Goose has a single aesthetic bone in its body (apart from the sail).
@@MinSredMash :) hehe - one of my friends calls it the best sailing kitchen bottom drawer ever launched ... I'm on pretty solid ground suggesting there is no universal aesthetics for boats. It is something that is always changing. The lovely long ended Americas cup boats of the late 1800s were called freakish skimming dishes when they appeared after the multi masted short ended deep long keel hulls of the previous generation.
Modern ocean racers like the late 1940s lovely Myth of Malham (we see her now as lovely) with her short ends and convex sheerline was called awful things by both the yachting press and the race organisers.
Or see the reaction of the Academies to Fauvism or Picasso (once he started to play with conventional viewpoints). We (mostly) love them now, but they horrified the bulk of the population at the time.
Now they are simply beautiful to us. That change from "ugly" to "classically beautiful" is always a new creation as minds become used to something different. We as humans are very unreliable in our aesthetic judgements.
@@MikStorer So what aspects of the Ozy Goose's hullform were chosen out of (or at all influenced by) aesthetic considerations? Or did you let the chips fall where they may, in anticipation of some future civilization that might be enamored with that shape?
@@MinSredMash There is a wide range of comments in this conversation about aesthetics.
It is a bit hard to say any particular view is "right" or the only possible view.
Did you ever consider/rated a "standard GIS", one built to specs with the specified lightweight materials? That would certainly rate higher than your currently customized but heavier one... inquiring minds would like to know 🤔
Also, we know that as content creator you don't own us viewers nothing, but changing the rating system midway trows a big fat wrench into the comparison. I would like to see a re-do chart with all the designs rated under the same scale/system. Maybe a 0-10 scale.
Finally, the "fun to sail" is, by design, very subjective... basically: If is light and fast it wins the "fun" points... might as well remove that category.
The absolute winner would be a Goat build like the Jimmy Skiff 😈😈
Hi,
This is a series of 4 videos and to fully understand my comments and thoughts you need to watch all of them in their entirety. 😉
-If you watch the whole video there is a table with all the designs scored according to the original scoring system.
-The original GIS built with lightweight materials was rated and scored using the first scoring system.
-It wont score higher, because it's a tradeoff between floatation/liters to bail over weight/cartoppable so the score will be very similar.
-On the review of the GIS and the Goose I show you a few fun things that you can do aboard both models which include a lot more than just speed.
@geraldtrumpp2340 The GIS built like the Jimmy skiff would not be cartoppable.
@@TheBoatRambler I've seen the entire series... but in the end is your build, your money and time.
By the way, thank you for showing us so many interesting designs. More than half of those I didn't know before.
If you don't mind another question... since your dad is getting old, wouldn't a high freeboard be counterintuitive to his easy of access?
@@TheBoatRambler Depends on the car and if you use devices to lift it. But I admit the cartoppable is not a criteria to me, especially at boats as big as the Goat. :-)
there is no criterion of appearance, that is, design and composition. And this is the most important criterion, since the sea and sail are romantic. According to the criterion of design, your choice is the worst, but it is very easy to make and practical. You can make the goose attractive with a brush and paints and paint it properly in some original way.
I have seen so many beautiful boats capsize and needing to be rescued as the designer focused more on beautiful lines than safety. There's no romance when you are wet, miserable and waiting for rescue that might eventually come... if you're lucky!
In my opinion the most important is to have a boat that will allow you to enjoy sailing, and even if by rough weather or a simple mistake you capsize, you can look at your partner while still in the water and laugh about it, ask her to sit inside so that you get that boat upright and you both continue the journey laughing and talking about what just happened! That is romantic....
@@TheBoatRambler I am subscribed to your channel, it is very interesting to me. I can build boats, but mainly for using them with a motor. I am fond of sailing and watch a lot, so to speak, look at different projects. I have one question, this boat, Goose, apparently is not very suitable for sailing alone, since in many videos you are sailing together. And the sailor makes a lot of movements to improve stability. And is it possible to order a sail for this boat somewhere? Since this is the only thing that I cannot sew myself.
Thank you!
The Goose is great to solo sail, the movements you see are usually to adjust heeling of the boat or lift the bow a bit, nothing mandatory, just makes it go smoother. The boat is very stable and I guess to capsize it you would need very strong wind or a gross error like keeping crew weight on the same side as the sail in a good wind.
You can order a sail like mine from Really Simple Sails or one of their authorized resellers.
@@TheBoatRambler Thanks for the info. Good luck.
See if you can add the $Thanks button to your videos, a lot easier for enthusiastic subscribers to send you donations! Great sailing!
Hi Dominic,
Thanks for the heads up! I can't believe I had never noticed that button! 😅
Well, it's enabled now!
I followed all your videos with great interest but I just don't understand the "car topable" criteria. Having a boat on a trailer is easier to move around, and you get a bigger/heavier boat with fewer compromises.
Hi,
That is all good if you have a place to park the trailer nearby or a launching ramp. Neither are common around here.
Finding a place for the car near the coast is already a struggle! We have hundreds of miles of coastline and so few launching ramps it's not even funny. A beach dolly can launch a light cartoppable boat from almost anywhere.
@@TheBoatRambler Teo. I think I have probably told you that my wife love going camping. We tow a n almost 2 tonne camper behind our Mitsubishi 4WD turbo diesel. So, an additional trailer would be impossible. We have boat racks on the camper and another set on the car.
Can be much cheaper to take ferries. And sometimes for road tolls. I think the purpose of the goose for Teo is "ADVENTURE". He has the Goat by the water locally. So the goose makes sense to go to different places.
Goose vs Goat Race when?
😁
I enjoyed your videos and unterstand your choice and rating, based on your criterias. You created the word "ffugly" to describe the goose. I spell it with double f for F-un, F-unctional and U-gly. With an funny design the goose get their own esprit. Great choice for you.
But one important aspect for other people ist not pointed out: in which conditions the boat will be sailed the most time?
The design of a boat for open water or a small lake has to be different. The Island Goat are a good design for both and i hang on a long time with this design to sail on lakes like here : th-cam.com/video/ArHkCwYHv1Q/w-d-xo.html
Therefore for sailing on lakes actual i prefer the Mebo 12 as a lighter boat than the GIS and in calm conditions probalby a faster boat than the gooze.
Scow type bow is nothing new Buddy Melges pioneered it in the 1950's...Like comparing an oil barge to a navy destroyer. I know which one I'd vote for.. I miss the piont.
Ouch, my poor eyes are still hurting. That boat looks like granny's wardrobe with a sail. Sorry, my opinion and not worth much, but I prefer my boats to look like boats, not furniture 🙂
Hi Ray. I have my "headturner" already, it's time for a practical boat to reach other venues! 😉
If you care about style, tack a Mercedes hood ornament on it, although nobody will see it since you'll be out in front of them. See ya!
Not for me mate, it's too ugly and that bluff bow smashing into a short duration chop would be painful. I'm also a big believer in beauty, it's the difference from that abomination called the "Luxury Fountain" (google that for a monstrosity) built recently in Vienna, compared to the fountains in Italy and France. I couldn't wake up look at that and think l want to sail it.
I have a GIS if I ever feel I need to sail a beautiful boat 😁
Let's look at the chop then.... Here in the estuary if there is a chop there must be wind so I will be sailing at 40º to the wind/chop which means the chop wont be hitting the bow full on. Also the boat will heel some which will actually put the edge of the bow/side panel into the wave. Or am I seeing this wrong?
It actually worries me more (pounding/noise) in little wind as the boat wont heel at all.
@@TheBoatRambler Where I live there is a serious steep chop, I doubt a box shape would be very pleasant in our conditions.. That aside it's the aesthetics, like most people in life I'm attracted to beauty and it's an important factor in my mind. I can see the advantages in the design that you want, but it's the ugliest sail boat I've seen, it's just an opinion. I seem to remember Storer talking in an interview about this design, he designed it for new sailors who don't have a lot of spare cash and zero building skills, i'm sure it was this design he was talking about, but I could be wrong. Each to his own as they say
Scows behave very differently to what is expected. Waves generally come at 45 degrees to the bow - not straight on - so with a bit of heel they go under the boat because that windward corner of the bow which is pointing directly into the waves is raised so the waves go under.
Can get the leeward side of the bow clipping waves in stronger winds. Two up the boat doesn't even pause. Single handed - have to make sure the speed is enough. The bow of the goose rises with speed because of all the rocker at the back of the boat. So if sailing efficiently solo with a speed a bit over 5 knots the bow rarely clips the waves and it makes a cushhh cushhh cushhh sound when sailing accurately and correctly. Sail too slow at 4 knots and it does start hitting waves.
This behaviour is not atypical of scows in general which can handle pretty boisterous conditions if sailed correctly. Bad sailing technique (saling flat and slowly or heeled and slowly) does mean bang bang bang in scows.
Short video - lots of waves and with a reef and showing how speed keeps the nose up - we race over 100 oz geese in the Philippines and they will be out in weather that makes other boats nervous - sometimes they are noisy - but that is just noise which doesn't slow the boat - th-cam.com/video/J6vUi24MsK0/w-d-xo.html
A car topper sailboat with a Cabin , lots of seating , it self-bails , is easily flipable and Sails good ... Butt , Man it's Ugly ! ... It's more like a Jon Boat that sails ! ... You don't want that Clunky thing ... You want a Thing of Beauty ... Not a sailing barge ...... Cheers !
folks who don't like the goose because of the way it looks, generally fall into two categories; it's either, they haven't tried it, or they're just self-conscious bigots who do not want to be seen sailing in one.
😁
That sounds like something the late Phil Bolger might have said!
A wise man, Phil Bolger.
haha .. it is a bit harsh Roy ... but it made me laugh. :)
bigot is the correct adjective, whereas m0+herfcuker doesn't sound objective, but it also works :P hahaha!
I respect your decision my friend.
But, that is the ugliest boat ever designed by man!
No way I could build that Goose.
If I were you, I would just keep the GIS. And be happy.
But, if you like it, that’s all that matters!😊
I can't say I find the Goose beautiful, actually I think it's not at all but...Function over form, and in that regard no boat can match the Oz Goose for what I need. 😉
goose and explorer are the ugliest boats I have ever seen.
Well Spencer, "pretty" was not a requirement on my list, all other qualities were and the results are there to see! 😉
Pretty sure that with four people on board and small waves the goose may be stopped and hit them quiet inconfortablely because of her large and flat nose. These kind of design is very good for stability but you can't overload them at all. The flat nose has to be higher to avoid that like on the Caravelle (fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravelle_%28d%C3%A9riveur%29). I understand that some compromises had to be done but this one might be too much for my taste. Excellents series of video by the way ! Really like your work on youtube :-) Obrigado !
Hi Samuel,
I won't be carrying 4 ppl unless it's a calmer day. Still, the chop will never come right at the bow since it usually comes from the wind direction and as I won't sail any more than 40º to the wind it might not be as bad as you think.
I'll have to try it and then we will see how it goes! 😉
Our experience with the 8ft version with the same sail was that it was extremely capable and frequently would be the only boat left sailing when conditions got tough. The goose is easier to sail and retains those qualities.
in the Philippines we have one fleet on a lake (40 boats) which can get a very sharp nasty chop. We have two fleets on sea conditions in bays that are quite open to the sea (12 boats and 20 boats) and a smaller fleet in a more enclosed bay which is probably about the same as many bays in many countries.
It can be a noisy boat - but sailed properly the bow is out of the way of the waves and they meet the bottom first as the corner of the bow is pointing directly into the waves and is usually 18" or so above the oncoming waves. If it was a big heavy boat I think you could be right - but I haven't sailed a boat designed like that - so I would just be guessing, but it is possible.
There are many assumptions made about the bow of the goose - but the fact is that the boats are raced in all normal conditions - and a bit more than normal as sometimes happens with racing dinghy fleets. And they don't have any sudden problems in any wind and sea range that normal sailing dinghies will go out in.
You can lift the nose placing the load afterwards. So small boats has always to be trimmed with the weight of the crew for best perfomance. Because of the big flat bottom the goose provides a lot of lift and even with a heavy load it's the boat will be raised when in motion. How much front and rear rocker fits best depends on the conditions , in my opinion the goose has plenty of them to generate an wide operational aera for save sailing.
@@hansrupp3621 Your opinion is backed by experience of goose sailors in all types of weather conditions.
With more than 4 people it does bog down and performance does suffer. But three is fine and there is a good sailing response through the wind range.
@@MikStorer My answer was related to 4 - not to heavy - people namend in the criterias. Let us name it more precise up to an specific load of 250-300 kg (500-600 pounds)? It's obvious, that raising the load will increase the performance in such kind of a boat and at some point the performance will struggle.