The problem with people arguing for Chakra equating haki and Naruto characters being able to hit logias is that they want a one side bridge to counter logias and nothing to counter Chakra and if we consider the purpose of haki it is a amp and negation Power so they should be able to do their basic function against Chakra too that is to negate it's effects on them and conquers would outright negate most Chakra abilities
@@alrmalikk this type of equalization would have worked better in other verses but in one piece there are two power systems with very different types of principle that counteract the other . And most people who argue to equalize haki are Naruto fans as they would need something to counter logias and paramecias and somehow justify genjustsu working so itachi can solo the verse but they never accept that genjutsu depends entirely on altering Chakra flow in the Chakra system of the targets body and is an entirely additional biological circulation system which even with verse equalization cannot exist in characters outside of Naruto and even if for some reason it works they won't accept haki users able to break the genjutsu because you need special method only available in Naruto to do so . They don't even try to understand an equalization should work in both ways
@@sujithsudhakaran745 It honestly doesn't surprise me that Naruto fans would do this, it's clearly so that their verse can hold an advantage over other animes in the form of unbreakable Genjutsu that can only be overcome using methods exclusive to the Naruto cast that are completely unavailable to the other anime. Whenever a Naruto character is placed against powerhouses from other series and are blatantly outgunned in terms of stats you better bet your ass you'll see some Genjutsu wanking. I've seen tons of threads involving Naruto against One Piece, DragonBall, Fairytail, NNT, and ect that go down that route... Naruto fans are very fast to accept Genjutsu working on characters due to Equalization despite other characters not possessing a chakra circulation system, but don't accept those different verses having powers and abilities unique to them that can break them out of it. They would argue Itachi soloing with Genjutsu and sincerely mean it, but when the tables turn and people argue the Naruto character get Spirit Crushed or dropped by Conquerors Haki they'll throw a fit, despite that literally being a similar type of argument to what their making with Genjutsu.
@@150Hello i had this one guy argue with me for half an hour about how genjutsu works on luffy due to verse equalization but didn't want to accept that haki can break genjutsu and once I asked him if verse equalization should work both ways he just called me a kid and left Most of the Naruto fans on the internet likes to make fun of others by calling them kid, clown , stupid insted of coming with any solid arguments.
You underestimate Naruto overrated Luffy. The cosmology in Naruto is waaaaaay higher than the one piece cosmology. So this is not a debate Naruto negs Luffy. And *Storm serie Naruto* negs Ichigo.
Some clarification for the one piece world being star level scale, this is because in many chapters of One Piece it has been confirmed and reaffirmed many times over that the one piece world is thousands of times larger then our own Earth. For instance, there is an island in One Piece called Alabasta that makes up less than .1% of the One Piece world's actual mass however, in chapter 182 it was stated/is cannon that a river in Alabasta alone was a mile wide. The entire island itself is close to the size of Australia in real life and there are thousands more islands, hundreds of which are actually larger than Alabasta. This makes physical feats in One Piece exceptionally hard to accurately measure and thus you will see a lot of physical scaling in one piece be multiplied hundreds of times over. Because it is simple for characters like a Gear 5 Luffy and especially a Prime Whitebeard to destroy islands like Alabasta in a single attack, the debate is over whether or not the feat should be calced at island level or to their cannon sizes which would be something like continental.
@@alrmalikk one example too is onigashima island people is underestimating how huge that fcking island is there are mountain ranges at the top of its skull dome and yet its only a small part of wano country and kaido is lifting that gigantic island in the air with ease while fighting luffy and his allies
what people ignore is that One Piece and an Earth's Density is way lower than a Suns. Only because Size is comparable it doesn't mean that the Mass is comparable too.
Only thing I would say to that is that means their strongest attack is capable of destroying the world 1000x over not a casual feat which is also an attack that can be dogged j in terms of pure speed luffy is the slowest I don’t really feel like that’s debated much unless your bias
@@nbell0089 no it literally isn't you can use physics but its not the main point. theres plenty of characters in fiction who break real life physics are you saying cant scale those characters
@@shimshawcreamtime2845 buddy power scaling quite literally is applying physics to a fictional character, that’s how they scale the speed, strength and power of the character and then place them into a category of power, then there’s AP scaling and ability scaling. For the characters that break the laws of physics we take into account that they broke the laws of physics and scale them based on that. You can scale them using physics even though we know that it’s impossible and that it’s a fictional universe. Which invalidates whatever that person told you is wrong on that basis. Physics is the mathematical understanding of a universe, there’s no limitation to it, only limitation on what our world can do But again, that’s the entire concept of power scaling and what scalers do, they apply mathematics and physics to scale characters and then put them against each other in a verse equalization sense How do you think they got Luffy to Lightspeed or hypersonic or continental in power
@@shimshawcreamtime2845 for example, if Naruto lifts a truck in the Naruto world, we can assume if not said otherwise, that that truck weighs the same as a truck in our universe and scale his physical strength based on that. If he is able to output and lift something that is 3 tons then he can probably push, or kick a character with the same level of force. And with speed if Luffy can dodge kizarus beams which are Lightspeed, the he can react to and dodge and move beyond the speed of light. Power scalers don’t just say it, they also use physics to explain it.
let's not forget that Luffy has just started to master his new firm and knowing what kind of fruit he has, you understand that this is not the strongest form of luffy yet
i mean who knows. maybe he will head towards goku level cos honestly it’s way too early to call any of the limitations gear 5 may have like we’ve literally only seen 2 fights with it in action so far
@@Yugimoto6161 I think it won't take that long (firstly because the manga's end is coming) but also because his fruit is litteraly the power of altering reality so once he master it who know what he can do.
@@ibrahimsurti4922 the funny thing is Shunsui's bankai quite literally has infinite potential as it was stated in one of the cfyow novels that it isn't limited by anything and can have any number of levels.
One example why power equalization across these universe is useless is because each universe follows different magic system. There's no such thing as equivalent power. They are just different because their universes work differently. Take for example, Logia. Only haki can negate logia. Also, chakra; even if ninjas block Ichigo's "chakra", it doesn't matter because he was using reiatsu. Using genjutsu (which controls the chakra flowing in the cerebral system) won't even work on Ichigo or Luffy, because they live in a universe where there is no chakra. There's nothing to genjutsu. Plus, take into account that in Bleach, one could suck in reiatsu from environment. Haki is a force, not an energy that flows within, unlike chakra and reiatsu. This power level comparison is just hilarious and fans fighting over it are dumb. Just enjoy the shows as they are. No one is any better for choosing a certain show. You can compare strength, but do not take into account the magic system bcoz each of them work according their own universes.
The idea for power equalization is to make the battles have the base thing of being able to hurt each other. Its not useless because its point is to get rid of the stupid arguments of oh they're water and oil they won't mix. Its a hypothetical battle between characters from different fictional universes. If we can be hypothetical for them fighting, we can be hypothetical that their combat systems become connected and can be seen as just different applications. Them arguing about the magic systems is their way of having fun. Let them have their fun. If you think its dumb for you yourself to do this thats fine, you don't have to. But judging others for having fun in their own way is a bit ridiculous.
Your Right. My brain cells FRY when i see fans comparing stuff like Mewtoo vs Vegeta and now this. These are all seperate Universes. Just enjoy them all if you want but stop comparing.
Ichigo> Luffy> Naruto. That's how I see it. Yes, Naruto is more powerful than Luffy but with Luffy's unbelievable speed and future sight. Naruto wont be able to touch him and all Luffy would have to do would be run Naruto low enough on stamina to then hit him a few times and end the fight. Of course Ichigo is much stronger than both so that's an easy fight.
dude, naruto has been fighting people with future sight since the beginning of the show, sasuke and the other uchihas have that ability. so ichigo > naruto > luffy. and naruto faught DAYS in a war and still went to fight sasuke, he wasnt even full strength at that fight either
Power scaling one piece is kinda hard because there are alot of things In play especially when it comes to haki and devil powers plus you have to factor in their awakenings it's alot of work people try to tend to equalize verse which is so dum because they feel like one verse is stronger then the other when it really not the case especially the Naruto community it can get very toxic arguing with them bleach is just a whole different conversation because ichigo has like 3 different power systems plus his banki which makes him so upserd for no reason I don't think the writer even know how powerful ichigo becoming Luffy can rival naruto we just have to see him go even higher after wano and see if he can reach a higher potential and see if he can rival ichigo Luffy is in the conversation we just waiting to see what he is capable of
luffy has only shown island level attacks your clearly full of shit the calk used to bring luffy up to star is more out of reace then naruto being multyuniversal by statements and datebook factors
6:20 Logias and Haki users aren't invincible, but characters in the Naruto verse don't have Haki, and therefore can't bypass the Logia advantage. Haki is very powerful, but not a passive ability, so it's possible to catch them lacking. Chakra is NOT the same as haki. The spirit pressure in Bleach could be comparable, I could see that bypassing logia.
The reason why op world is scaled so high in size is because the one-piece world has multiple moons and has hundreds of thousands if not millions of large islands.
@@Bang_2393 Say what you want but at the end of the day whether luffy is weaker then both naruto and ichigo the one piece Manga/Anime is better then both combined story wise. And you cant argue that fact since its the best selling manga of all time and its not even close. So keep talking down on everyones opinions we all can see who the neckbeard with no friends is
@@jamesdsmith1217 who said I didn’t like one piece? I like all of the big three. Bleach is my favourite out of all of them but one piece was the first manga I read and Naruto was the first anime I watched, both of them still hold a place in my heart. BUT I will stand by my word when I say Bleach is not only my favourite but also the best out of the three and not only that the STRONGEST. And btw if your confused I was talking about powerscaling not the story, but I guess the cope got to your head 🤣
@@Bang_2393 Bleach has a poorly written story. Same plot line every single arc. The only thing good about bleach is the fights everything else is worse than then other 2. There's a reason bleach was cancelled and not the other 2.
To be fair, One Piece world is very massive, and more times dangerous than any world. You can literally died just by sailing into the part of "grandline" or even just entering it. It took the StrawHat Pirates to get used to the situation in the other side of their world for a long time. So it's not easy to get through it, and so that's why strong people has to step on a very dangerous course. So White beard for example was called the Strongest man in the world, because he is. Just as I said, their world is not very easy, and you could die if you're a pirate or have no power or no one to protect you. White beard has the ability to cause Sea Quakes, and that's the dangerous part because it's his advantage in their world full of marines and pirates. And the Islands there can as big as Australia or bigger than it. And of course it's really hard to kill everyone, but White beard can, so he's a star level. For Luffy, his Gear 5/fruit gives him the ability to turn his imagination to reality, which is already crazy. Luffy can literally imagine anything , and that will come true. He is a free man, and he has no things such as thinking or tactics when fighting. But the problem is, Luffy doesn't even know what his true powers are, he just think he's a rubber person only. Also, I am not saying Luffy will beat both Naruto and Ichigo, I am just giving informations. Luffy still needs more experience and something that will benefits his true powers. This is not biased, I just literally think that this fight will be interesting IF this ever happened.
Based on actual feats and no multipliers/made up power boosts the real rankings of these characters are Naruto >>> Luffy ~ Ichigo. Naruto's got the best feats out of these 3.
Honestly, there are too many missing factors and too many assumptions/equalizations that would have to be made for a solid answer to be found. So many possibilities.
The logia thing is very tricky it’s not that they can’t hit them it’s that the attack wouldn’t effect them because take kizaru for excnaple it would be you basically punching light see you can punch light but you can’t harm light think of it like that
bro tell me about it cause if your power is greater than the logia =can hit. but introduse haki and now power dont mater, you can still hit them. like what?!
Okay you seem to know One Piece, why is it that much bigger? Please.... Please don't tell me, its not because of pixel scaling as I have seen so many times........
1) whitebeard isn't planetary just because they say he was going to destroy the world but only shake multiple islands doesn't mean he is planetary 2) none of luffy gears are stated to have multiples op fans just make the shit up 3) g5 luffy do have toon force but on a low lvl which is Body Control (Characters can frequently stretch, bend or otherwise manipulate their bodies in unnatural ways) and low lvl of reality manipulation
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN all that you just said wasn't mentioned in the story and his strongest attack was the tsunami it only shake multiple islands doesn't mean he is planetary if shaking multiple islands make whitebeard planetary then everyone in one piece is planetary 🤓🤓
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN only one person stated he was going to destroy the world and that's was sengoku and again saying he is going to destroy the world but only shaking multiple islands is not a planetary feat and WB strongest attack was the tsunami and that was big as mountain it was only going to destroy marineford not the world let alone oda himself literally contradict himself he went from saying WB can destroy the world to a old who can destroy a sheet of ice that is big as a continent you see how op power scaling don't make sense but y'all will try and say WB is planetary but it's just a hyperbole
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN you just prove my point you watch op power scaling videos that just people Wank them like how you going to watch me and say WB is planetary and has zero feats just one statement and he shake multiple islands then say he is planetary but post time skip the strongest feat is a old man spitting a sheet of ice that's is the size of a continent again WB world destroying statement is hyperbole because WB/no one else in the whole show has shown a planetary feat
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN again saying WB is planetary and has zero feats one statement is just a hyperbole and yes oda did contradict himself going from saying WB is planetary to saying Chinjao is Continental to kaido lifting a island you see how op power scaling make 0 sense pls show me a planetary feat from any one in one piece then I'll say WB is planetary
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN and yet you still didn't prove WB is planetary because all you saying is WB was going to destroy world so that make him planetary smartass 🤡🤓🤓 2) oda went from planetary statement>>>>> Continental feat >>>>>>> island feat you see how retarded y'all one piece fans are just trying to make op power scaling sound so good when it's not "mama op power scaling makes sense "🤡🤓 yall will take a hyperbole to scale a character from op try an scale one piece characters for your self instead of watching people wank them 3) age matter in every anime example bleach dragon ball z naruto etc the more they get old the more powerful they become same with one piece 4)kaido lifted onigashima with his dragon flames which give him that feat but reading your comments just prove that you have 0🧠 cells and that you make no sense but I never said it you did
I'm really sorry for those tic tok idiots but Logia can't actually be hit without haki unless it's their natural weakness For those who don't know, if you ate logia you literally becomes the element instead of getting the power like if you ate fire fruit, you don't get fire power but become fire itself and even if you hit them it does literally no damage to them since punching fire, thunder, ice or light is gonna hurt those elements it's the same. There are circumstance like luffy was able to hit enel a logia type because luffy is rubber and enel was thunder and crocodile who had sand fruit, luffy was able to hit him once luffy was covered in water to hit sand. So you can hit them but you need haki to hit him or just be or use their natural weakness Tho there are some logia who just can't be hit without haki since their power have no natural weakness like light fruit, smoke fruit, Gas fruit etc.
@@tmakster7748 that's just assumption but it's not like logia can't regenerate a arm or leg if it's erase also these are 2 different powers one is chakra which is energy in a person which allows them to use powers where as devil fruit are dreams and haki is a will of the user or users ambition, they are no where near same. I don't think existence erasure or negation of abilities works on dreams of people.
@@HoneyPepperXwX yeah but for ichigos case he aint attacking their body he is dealing damage to their souls, something they cant defend against, all zanpaktou deal damage to the soul itself so logias aint really a problem against bleach, naruto would struggle against them but then again any water type jutsu is getting the job done basically
4:25 why? Because OP fans really like their pixel scaling... If I remember correctly there was a globe somewhere in the manga and because of the pixels in that panel OP world is 50-80x size of earth. Because........ Oda and other mangaka draw their stuff so pixel perfect so others can pixel scale it obviously lol.
@@silmaril7285 Cool if it does, I just said what I have heard the fans say. I don't follow the series so closely myself to remember every detail about it. Just curious, is it stated how much larger or just that its way larger? As my only problem with their world being way way larger is that the travel times make no sense then, as they are using sails and wind to travel. If its like 2-3 times larger, I don't mind honestly Editing just to put it here that even in this comment section, people seem to have really different ideas how big it is, some say star level, some say thousands, 40-50 times and so on.. stopped reading after those.
@@blindone4473 it's not, just from learning how much alabasta is big, and by knowing there are millions of islands, it's not that hard to understand. Also oda did reveal in a sbs that the one piece world is larger. It doesn't matter just how much. Travel time is not an issue, the ocean currents in one piece are not like ours, its wild. currents are so strong that they can even shot upwards, and destroy islands. The new world and grand line have inimaginable weather conditions. Read/watch one piece, it's worth it, everything is explained. Also, the one piece earth have several moons, another testament to its difference compared to earth. (we explicitely see them in a library, in ohara, a archeological island)
@@silmaril7285 Don't worry I am a OP fan.. just not a hardcore one who knows all the details. I have seen the panel when its said that OP world has like 20 mil islands. It isn't that crazy though as earth has close to million.
@@blindone4473 ye but those islands are intended to be inhabitted, and we know how big alabasta is. Multiply that by a million and you get a bigger world. But that's not the greatest argument, as oda straight up said it.
The one argument I think should definitely be taken into consideration is that Kaido in One Piece is equal to Pain in Naruto. The strongest of the group that is basically the biggest road block from the start while Imu and The 5 Elders is the equivalent of Madara. The villain that gets built up as the one who thought the old legendary hero (JoyBoy and Hashirama) once the protag is close to the end goal. Luffy became an Emperor and Naruto was recognized as a hero by the village. So basically you can argue that the comparison should be Wano Luffy vs Pain arc Naruto. I personally don't care about that since I love both series and mostly leave it at that, but just some food for thought.
Kaido is definitely not the equal of Pain. Pain's strongest attack that required him to use a bit of his lifespan was only City level while Kaido is easily Continental to Multi Continental.
@@vlor1414 I wasn't saying they're equal in strength, but that compared to others in their verse they're the same level. Kaido is to Imu what Pain is to Madara.
Bruh.. thats a terrible comparison.. i see no feats from Pain that can top Kaidous Thunder bagua.. Kaidou has been fighting all night long with numerous high tiers one piece characters while lifting onigashima..
A lot of these cross series powerscaling debates are starting to feel like headcanon to me. Seems more like people pick who is their favorite and try to justify to themselves that they are stronger.
You really can’t actually hit a logia unless you have haki OR you have a power that combats the element. Other than that, you are basically fucked unless you use some sort of environmental damage that will somehow do something to them.
Fiction isn't suppose to make sense... Fiction isn't reality Reality is non-fictional so saying characters can exist in the real real world sounds dumb.
6:02 so the planet in One Piece is the size of a small star. And since the density of solid is more than plasma therefore, the planet scales to star level
I do feel like If we take in to account luffys gear 5, that Could be very op for luffy. Because whatever luffy can think of can happen (almost everything) Depending on how weird ass his imaginations become he could have a good chance. But at the moment, he dont stand a chance XD
I'm not trying to argue or anything... but i think toon force will be limited to something... because if it's what you guys are saying... Blackbeard or akainu are just fooders now which I'm sure is not... plus there's literally a guy in bleach who's power is imagination... he can imagine Turing your bones to cookies or just summon you to literal space and all that...
I am not sure why people even bother to compare characters from different stories. Just because it is a Manga does not mean there needs to be a reason for a crossover. And no, a character does not have to be OP to be good. Manga is just a form of storytelling, where illustration is used with the story. Anime is just a form of storytelling where the illustrations are now animated into motion with sound. It is a medium of communication, and as such there does not need to be any reason for stories told in these mediums to have any connection. This is of course the same for Live Action, where people rather than animation are used to tell the story in a realistic backdrop. Nobody claims all live action film has to be connected. And nobody bothers to compare John Wick and Steve Rogers together and argues who is stronger. So why do this for Naruto, One Piece and Bleach? If it sounds ridiculous for someone to compare Aragorn from Lord of the Rings with Jason from Friday the 13th, why do people have to go around comparing Naruto and Luffy and Ichigo? The stories of these three Manga/Anime are no more connected than LOTR and Friday the 13th. Go figure....
luffy abilities are wacky, plus the world does not scale to naruto verse/our earth/most verses, hence i see the downplay, ppl believe what you can destroy is your scale, and get luffy island level, for me he is JUST around naruto's level
I mean technically gear 5 luffy could be multiversal level. I mean he basically has cartoon powers with is op as heck. From what we know how his power works he could just make all of reality a tangible thing and rip it apart like a sheet of paper. But that's exactly the thing: From what we know so far, we simply don't know if and where the limits are. Could he fight mui goku and just fold the space around goku and squish him? We dont know.
@@ElderBaguette his power is to make his imagination reality. "Toon force" is just a term fans use because his application of the Nika fruit up until this point was basically nothing else. From what we know his powers are he should be able to do anything as long as he can imagine it.
@@RayAkuma Not really, wasn't really confirmed either or even shown, Luffy's "toon force" is basically mimicking the properties of the movement of a cartoon character and turning all properties into rubber making it look cartoonish.
@@ElderBaguette it was confirmed that he has the powers of the sungod Nika and what he stands for was explained. Going by other mythical zoans like Yamato's we can see they have a primary element like he has ice but it entails much more. I'd like to see you explain Luffy conjuring googles out of his hair with basic rubber physics.
@@RayAkuma Again, it doesn't alter reality -_-, those goggles are literally from his hair that gained rubber properties to solidify into a goggle, hence why it's a RUBBER goggle, he didn't do anything like an actual "toon force" character would do, he literally just added rubber.
The biggest issue for Luffy n Naruto can’t see Ichigo and can’t physically hurt Ichigo even if they had spiritual based attacks Ichigo would tank them pretty easily he tanks all types of broken spiritual attacks 24/7
the reason why whitebeard is ''small star planet'' level is because the one piece world is several times bigger than our earth making the one piece planet as big as a small star and this is all because of his devil fruit i think is haki plays a huge rule in him being strong
Luffy stomps on naruto badly imo it may look like one piece happy and doesnt look strong but nahh… C tier level characters some already multi-continental and tank explosions to face but high tiers id say Large planetary to star but with multipliars for both you can get both naruto and luffy solar system base off statements alone
Tbh the "logia invulnerability" argument is kinda corny imo. Sure, you turn into an element. Kizaru can turn into light all he wants. Ichigo will just atomize the photons that make up his light. Eminem can turn into lightning all he wants. Ichigo can just shrug off his lightning bolts then atomize the matter that makes up his lightning. Akainu can become lava all he wants. Ichigo will just atomize the lava. Logia invulnerability doesn't really matter if you're against someone who can casually atomize you out of existence.
The size of the planet is One Piece is the size of a star. The Alabasta kingdom is the size of the continent of Australia in the real world, and on the grand line it's just considered an island.
😂😂😂😂LOLthe earth in one piece is thousands of times bigger than our earth whitebeard was stated to be able to destroy the world Luffy is 3/4 as strong as whitebeard
@@Jesuslovesyou-i3d OP fan really hold senguko statement so strong and there is no feat shown backing it up in boruto "kid naruto" scale to one otsutsuki put him to planetary/solar-system then if you use "statement" in the narutoverse like the "space-time" and "parallel universe" and "dimension" so base naruto will be freakin universe+ without the feat is shown
bro... do you know how big the world of one piece is? a small island in the one piece world is probobly bigger than asia. luffy beat kaido with a fist bigger than onigashima which is probably bigger than a place like iceland.
NOBODY in one piece is planetary, except maybe Whitebeard but even he has no proof. Therefore STATEMENTS without FACT are HERESY. Luffy caps at multi continental maybe even country level. Let us be fr here One piece is the WEAKEST verse in the big three. Name me ONE planetary feat in one piece that IS NOT a statement. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMES TO MIND. Hell even when it comes to statements the only one that I can think of is Whitebeard. ONE PIECE IS FODDER!!! COPE🤣🤣🤫🤫
6:32 this is incorrect and you have been misinformed. Katakuri doesn't have a logia he can just morph his body to dodge attacks. Logias are a passive defensive ability that are similiar to ghosts minus the phasing through the wall bs. They can pick things up and touch things when they touch it however when they're touched or hit they turn into the element that their fruit gives them. Sorry but the only thing i can think of that goes through logia is the truth seeking orbs. (In naruto at least)
Imagine an attack thats planet splitting and then someone having the power to grab hold of that attack and use it as his own. Then using the attack on its original owner. Luffys power is limited ONLY by his imagination...and we are only seeing the early stages of his powers. Don't forget Luffy can now change the physics and landscape of his environment. He can cause both Naruto and Ichigo to become cartoonish/vulnerable to him and the world is his playground.
bruh... ichigo fought characters who can't die and keeps keeping stronger with each defeats... he fought someone who can see all possible futures and can alter the futures... and comparing to luffy who's is rubber based imagination...gremmy basically have the power of imagination.. which can turn bones to biscuit or summon you outside space who literally can do anything he thinks of... luffy's toon force isn't all that great as of right now and the gap is just too much even with the hax luffy has
@@weird_perspective68 I suppose, I actually never watched alot of Bleach so I guess I cant truly compare. Having said that, DON'T underestimate Luffys version of Toon force. Kaido was suppose to be near indestructible and Immune to most attacks, his Toon Force forces ANYONE or ANYTHING he comes into contact with to be at his playing mercy. Now...YES it's still just barely Awakened so we wont know just how good it'll be, but Luffy literally changes the laws of the anime physics around him defying all logic. Now in truth, these debates are all speculation since each character will never be able to jump ship from 1 anime universe to the next....except Zoro 😆.
@@gorevarix4036 what I mean when I say luffy toon force is limited is that luffy is still not the strongest in his verse... even after gear 5 I don't think Akainu, Blackbeard, shanks or the other guys are fooder characters...and this is what I meant when I said luffy's toon force is limited... AS OF RIGHT NOW, the current Luffy...I don't think in terms of raw stats he goes up to ichigo... as for Naruto I really haven't watched it that well so I'm gonna leave it up there...
What I find the most ridiculous is how people take these anime characters and for some reason imagine that every author that created the power systems within their series had all these measurements and power calculations we use in physics. It's absolutely ridiculous. People refer to some calculations about power but then in the next sentence ignore how nothing can be, based on any calculations, faster than light nor even light speed. Fans omit physics when it suits them but bring them about when it does, referring to some math calculations like that's a proof. Whitebeard is said to be planetary or star level but only Sengoku said he can destroy the "world", which could mean that he could destroy all places with time, it doesn't mean he can onetap the whole planet... Similarly, we take much of what is said in the series' as a direct proof. Still, in other instances, these fans are ready to jump to "We must look at their feats", again when it suits them. Fact is: fiction is fiction, it's not real. If we take into consideration physics and powers, moving at lightspeed with the mass of these characters would automatically create nuclear explosions or even black holes. This doesn't happen, so it's not realistic. We cannot make comparisons using any mathematical calculations because the stories are the result of human minds of the creators and they have little understanding of these calculations. Even if they did have that knowledge, they obviously omitted that. Yet, here we are, making power calculations when it suits us to categorize characters to scales that make absolutely NO SENSE given the scales of the entire franchises. People go "1000 times faster than light speed", yet even though I've delved into the story and read it for 20 years, I have absolutely no recollection of EVER seeing nor analyzing/deducing from what I've seen that anyone in a series is ever faster than light. I refuse to believe it because it destroys all other physics calculations. I blame Dragonball. DB gave other mangas a lot of means to scale powers, and this lead to powerful energy attacks that far outweight the durability of the wielder. For example, if Naruto is planetary level, it doesn't matter, because if he uses a force that can destroy a planet, he will die as well. Also, environmental destruction is very different compared to a pinpoint attack. Just because a sniper doesn't create this huge, fancy explosion and environmental destruction, it doesn't mean it's not powerful or even better than an explosive. Character A can blow up the environment, character B can oneshot anyone despite making minimal environmental damage. I'd always vote for B to win because A isn't going to commit SD. If you're willing to use physics in one instance but omit it in another, you are committing a special pleading fallacy and the argument dies there.
Oda made One Piece super hard to powerscale, example: Crocodile, Gecko Moria, Marineford Whitebeard, etc. So you cant rlly compare characters in One Piece, its more abt world building and AP. And since its already hard to compare characters in One Piece, its even harder to compare One Piece characters with other anime. And keep in mind that Bleach and One Piece arent finished so Luffy could surpass Ichigo or Ichigo could go beyond Luffy depending on how the stories go. But the debate will change with time so there isnt a final statement.
yeah it's fiction. nothing can go faster than light speed , because if it go faster than light speed the size or volume of that object would be zero. that means the object doesn't exist, and that's just make no sense 🙂
I can answer why Yamamoto dodnt destroy soul society in the TYBW, it wa stated he was massively holding back in his fight with Ywach, and Ywach even stated the old Yamamoto would have not cared and would have gone all out. In the Japanes raw the Kanji for the Realms is actually translated as Universe, soul society, heuco mundo and the Living realms are their own universes all connected to the Dangai. Hell is infinite and transcends time and space, Heuco mundo is literally stated in the manga ans by Kibo to be infinite in size. Even the light novels, even then if you dont want to follow that, squad zero by themselves going Bankai can shake all three realms and the living realm is based on our world with similar events like traveling to the moon wich is still a universal feat just to shake all of the living realm, again in kanji its universe.
Honestly naruto should be solar system level and higher like multi solar to galaxy based on how he beats kaguya who was gonna wipe out time space with a star a planet and then momo would be higher as he was taking more energy and even created a parallel dimension from the naruto universe and it shows many stars and red shift nebulas and naruto baryon mode if it’s actually based on nuclear fusion would be a billion times of a amp on his base because baryon particles go absolutely crazy with just a gram of the stuff we breathe having energy to that of buildings which naruto has more then just a gram and it’s multiplying his power
@@Bang_2393 she wasn’t using it just with jax’s she used her energy to destroy it it takes six paths energy to create truth seeker orbs she also was shown it using her chakra to make it she also created the dimension with her own power cause she disputed power using her chakra to destroy it
@@Bang_2393 she wasn’t using it just with jax’s she used her energy to destroy it it takes six paths energy to create truth seeker orbs she also was shown it using her chakra to make it she also created the dimension with her own power cause she disputed power using her chakra to destroy it
the reason why he was instantly star level is because the one piece world has 8 or 9 moons ours has one for a planet to have nine moons it has to be 8 to 9 times bigger
@@JackInglis-ne4qk stg, Goku forced himself into the future when he went against Hit so even if Luffy could see it there is nothing he can do to avoid it plus his toon force his incredibly weak, he aint like sponge bob, buggs bunny or other toon characters like that, he is extremely downgraded in compairision
Most of one piece fans are really delusional for saying one piece world is star sized... They crossed the red line twice for less than 60 days, They've running around alabasta kingdom for less than 3 days... One piece is has the most broken logic in all anime...
for the power scalers out there, CHARACTERS ARE NOT SOLAR SYSTEM LEVEL IF THEY DEAL WITH OTHER SOLAR SYSTEM CHARACTERS. that naruto argument at the beginning was so dumb wtf, momoshiki absorbed kaguya's dimension so he's solar system level?! can he absorb their main solar system? NO! GG, and Naruto will never be solar system just because he defeated kaguya and momoshiki, only thing that makes a character solar system and universal and what not, IS THEIR OWN FEATS!!!
You just don't understand. Momoshiki never absorbed kaguya's dimension, it's his dimension that he made. And dumb argument cuz you need to scale to a person to beat them bro. If kaguya is solar and she has solar ap,then to beat her you need to be atleast close.
@@somanchipranav1964 solar only in these sense that she has her own dimension with celestial bodies, she didn't have enough AP or DP to deal solar level damage toh the actual universe. Unless a character has enough power to destroy a large planet, they're never solar level
@@zuratoki except she destroyed her own? She doesnt have to destroy this system for her to be able to be solar? There are many solar systems out there in the universe...i know this blew ur mind rn but yeah universe is kinda big...or she can just create and destroy her own system like what she did...i mean ur argument makes no sense seeing as ur acting as our or that animes system is the only system in the universe that she has to destroy in order for her to be scaled to solar system...
@@Ghost-yc7eq yes, the character should have enough power output to destroy the solar system to be solar level lol, it can be valid only when the main universe of the anime is being taken into account, it can be calculated mathematically.
devil fruits are most likely derived from haki considering haki itself is the manifestation of ones will so if billions of times more will is being focused toward wanting something i think it would manifest thus the devil fruit kinda like jjk but WAY more complicated so life force wouldnt be able to touch a logia user because its completely different from the will that is haki so the devil fruit weakness is haki because devil fruits themselfs are derived from it were as ki or chakra is more physical or species reliant which haki just isnt because its will in and of itself
how tf would naruto hit straight up light 💀 or lava, or water??? you can’t hurt a logia user unless you have haki or know their weakness( like crocodile with water/blood against luffy)
We don't know exactly how these powers would interact with each other, but Luffy's will is unbreakable and he has kingly ambitions, so would that mean he has a strong soul? I would think he might not get wiped out immediately, but I am not familiar with Bleach. Depending on how good Ichigo is at fighting, Luffy might be able to last a little while, but it sounds like he would not win.
The power gap is so huge that Luffy wouldnt stand a chance, your kingly ambitions dont mean nothing against soul reapers, the gap is so wide that a random lieutenant from Bleach woould have a decent shot of soloing whole of one piece and Ichigo is far far faaaaaar strobger than any of lieutenant, this dude yes he got it mostly right but he kinda did lowball ichigo seeing as Ichigo can be scaled to uni, questioning solar ichigo is well a lowball tbh there isnt any other word that i can use to describe it, the power gap is just waaay to big i mean Bleach has characters that create universes just by thinking about it, unkillable monsters and i literaly mean unkillable like Aizen(dude cant be killed in no way shape or form, was erased completely from existance and still revived)and on top of that Spiritual pressure is basically like conquerors haki but on massive amount of steroids and to top it all off Bleach characters arent even living beings, they are all souls so basically if Luffy would even want to exchange a blow with Ichigo he would need to find a way to hurt souls, to deal soul damage and to defend against soul attacks which these verses just arent really capable of doing at least not to the efficiency that would allow them to survive 1 blow from Ichigo
Can't believe people think wb is star level. First of all, thier arguments about the size just proves that they don't know maths🗿 Plus it's a statement with no feat at all. Kakashi is said to be omniscient so we take it as well? We need feats like Momoshiki destroying a star, creating a solar system etc.
The one piece planet is only slightly smaller then our sun....meaning destroying the planet = destroying a sun size wise, and Whitebeard on his death bed with 1 fist was able to shift the tectonic plates with 1 attack. and was stated by the author and multiple characters in the manga that he could destroy the planet. 1 island in once piece is the size of Australia... and whitebeard and instantly destroy MULTIPLE islands without breaking a sweat. Its really not hard to put 2 and 2 together and understand how he can be scaled to star level
These power scaling videos have absolutely no concept of suspension of disbelief, lol. If these were accurate there'd be no worlds to speak of, nothing to scale. These characters would've torn absolutely everything apart with minor scuffles.
i believe luffy beats naruto just because of his abilities alone, I mean he's got advanced observation and future sight alone makes him a big threat because he would see every attack naruto throws at him plus current luffy has duraneg in every single punch he throws, and last time I checked naruto is a normal human so every punch luffy lands on naruto is just going to absolutely crush narutos internal organs. I do agree with your scaling with naruto, luffy and ichigo btw, I just think luffy and his haki out matches naruto.
Your take you be valid if Naruto didn't have soul manipulation, existence erasure, substitution and reality manipulation through the ying yang so Naruto >> G5 Luffy fn
Tbh luffy being star level simply due to "the planet being massive" is a bit stupid but since everyone dickriding it i decided to accept it 😂 there is no way to accurately measure how big the planet actually is from a pixelated pic but whatever, its deffinetly bigger than our planet yes but yeah ill accept it anyway, also baryon mode is just a disapointment tbh
I think the video miscalculated Luffy's power in relation to Whitebeard. They seem to not realize that Whitebeard has the power to destroy the world 'because of his devil fruit' the Quake Quake fruit. This allows him to create massive earthquakes. Luffy can't do that, and therefore all the calculations during that moment are irrelevant.
Also with how Ichigo's powers work, shinigami have the ability to just say no to hax if there's a big enough stat gap. WHile I think Luffy could probably have a chance to ink out a win in equal stats, the thing is, Ichigo could just neg his hax aand atomize him with a getsuga
@@jeffjohnson598 Atomizing him. Ichigo simply scales higher. Taking into account the laws of both universes, Ichigo scales significantly higher and this gear 5 cannot effect him because he can just say "no"
@@jeffjohnson598 He is island level at best. Ichigo is Uni+. The spiritual pressure of a single getsuga will negate gear 5th and all his haki then atomize him. Luffy's powers are impressive, but against a bleach char, having a strong ability isn't enough. You need the stats to back it up and at the end of the day, the top of the one piece power scale is very low in the bleach power scale.
I’m a massive one piece tard but I know for a fact Luffy ain’t near either their level yet tbh. I think saying he’s near in power to Naruto is a massive reach. But in fairness if Luffy masters his toon force then it’s over for the other two. Though I don’t know if one piece will end with Luffy breaking the fourth wall and or any like omnipotent stuff toon force characters can do lol. That would be too much.
Idk men he defeated kaido and kaido and white beard are simliar strength level and in the story it's told multiple times that whitebeard could destroy the world. Which is in site as big as our sun. So it's hundreds and hundreds of times bigger then narutos world. So whitebeard could technically destroy the naruto world when it comes to pure strength very fast. But but having destruntur power doesn't equal being good at battles. Well but prime whitebeard Was pretty strong so I feel like if not Luffy then whitebeard could solo Naruto. But I'm not an expert I think it's just a logical conclusion. Like whitebeard could technically destroy narutos sun in the naruto verse. So yeah when it comes to pure destruction one piece verse is stronger.
The main reason one piece was scaled this high is mostly because the world of one piece has been estimated to be bigger than our star and alabasta is estimated to be the size of Australia so when you factor this into account to what crocodile did that could make him continental because he could have completely destroyed that island and buried it in sand though for their world he would be city at least for white beard to destroy a planet bigger than our sun would make him star level though in their world that would make him planetary so scaling in one piece is very difficult since trying to compare their feats to our worlds logic scales them insanely high
if u dont believe naruto can beat luffy we can debate bruh luffy scales to Large Planetary Because Of His Feats Destroying Some Of One Pieces Earth Barley Star Lvl While Naruto Here Is UNI+ OR SOLAR SYSTEM TO LARGE STAR LVL OR GALAXY.
naruto never surpassed kaguya man 😭. momoshiki knew the version of kaguya when she didnt eat the chakra fruit and he didnt even know that she did. naruto never damaged kaguya either. yes he has hit her some times but he never damaged her or put so much as a scratch on her. also he didnt beat toneri in his base form since his fist, the one he punched toneri with, was coated in kurama chakra. naruto is low star lvl at BEST and he isnt even mftl wdym 💀. naruto, in sage of six path which is the form used in this vid, dodged madara's lightining fang at point blank range which is an ftl feat if not ftl reaction time only feat. he was even caught off guard by it since he said "woah!!!" after dodging it in the manga. keep in mind that luffy DID THAT SHIT POST TIMESKIP IN BASE WHILE DODGING KUMA'S LASERS AND EVEN CALLS THEM SLOW. naruto at best is ftl+ but no where near mftl. also im not a naruto hater, i just hate the fans who overrate naruto and its verse way too much. as u can see that naruto is still strong but putting him in solar system lvl is just absurd. also naruto might not get stronger since he just lost kurama too. even if we include baryon mode, 10 mins isnt gonna do him much good. also for those who say, "well luffy also has low time limit". yes, yes he does. but you do know that he can bypass is right? when he reached his time limit, he regenerated back his stamina instantly since his power of imagination grants his wish, which was to keep fighting, hence filling up his stamina. ofc he cant just solo with toon force alone but this is one of the things we saw him do with his toon force in the anime/manga. nothing matters tho since none of them would even be able to stand in ichigo's presence let alone touch him 💀
Im a diehard one piece fan😂 so I think Luffy will win against Naruto. Here's why. PTS Luffy is beyond light speed since he dodge the pacifista's lazer attack effortlessly, but people debate this because Luffy learned observation haki, but it's shown that the light was coming and Luffy ignore it and tilt his head when the light is about to hit him, and then he said: TOO SLOW, so base on that, Luffy is beyond lightspeed, Luffy is not even using gear 2 at that part which is a 4x multiplier. But then he got blitz by doffy. then Luffy uses 4th gear to overcome that speed. now we have kaido, and at the first Luffy vs kaido fight, Luffy was using gear 4th but still got blitz by kaido who is drank, meaning kaido is not using any of he's strength at all. But rooftop Luffy baseform is now able to one v one hybrid form kaido aka strongest form kaido who is definitely way WAY, faster than drunk kaido. And then we got sungod, who is beyond all he's forms before including speed. In that manga he is running so fast that the air is burning, living a fire trail on his back. Now go explain why Naruto is faster than Luffy. If you said watch Naruto first I have done that already. All episode, Naruto, Shippuden, Boruto done.
good arguments, but there are but 1) luffy has just awakened his power and he does not even know what kind of fruit he has 2) if you know what kind of fruit luffy has and understand that 5 gear luffy is not his final form 3) luffy's abilities are fundamentally different from the forces of the same Naruto and ichigo luffy does not just become stronger or faster, he can literally do anything that his imagination allows him to do 4) at the expense of chakras and haki, they are not similar, they have similar elements, but these are different forces haki cannot be increased in volume as a chakra, but the chakra cannot be made stronger in battles against strong opponents the difference is that the chakra can develop through training and haki only in battles against strong opponents training will only allow you to manage haki better
@@somanchipranav1964….. wake up to reality😂🤓 the earth in one piece is thousands of times bigger then our earth Luffy is 3/4 as strong as whitebeard whitebeard was stated to be able to destroy the world Luffy is mid star level he’s also immune to all physical attacks Naruto can’t use taijutsu rasengan or rasenshuriken on him he can become thousands of feet tall he can see ten seconds into the future he can turn Naruto himself into rubber. And Luffy isn’t even an adult at his peak yet
@@Jesuslovesyou-i3d NOBODY in one piece is planetary, except maybe Whitebeard but even he has no proof. Therefore STATEMENTS without FACT are HERESY. Luffy caps at multi continental maybe even country level. Let us be fr here One piece is the WEAKEST verse in the big three. Name me ONE planetary feat in one piece that IS NOT a statement. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMES TO MIND. Hell even when it comes to statements the only one that I can think of is Whitebeard. ONE PIECE IS FODDER!!! COPE🤣🤣🤫🤫
Man said that naruto is large planetary and that luffy is planetary when the earth is one piece is thousands of times bigger than the naruto earth. the fist luffy beat kaido with is probably bigger than at least half of the naruto earth.
The only thing we are sure is that goku is above all of them. One Piece, naruto and bleach has different world that you can't compare. it's like sayng who is stronger between messi, ronaldo, pelè, maradona... you can't compare them because they are different from each other.
I'm a gigantic one piece fan but haven't really seen bleach or Naruto so luffy is the only one I can comment on. And I'm sorry he is nowhere near planetary level. That caught me so off guard because it seems like such a ridiculous thing to say. Despit luffy never showing anything close to that type of power, even the strongest people we've seen in the show are only island level. How would luffy who isn't even the strongest character be planetary? It literally makes no sense.
As a ONEPIECE fan over them all and only watched a few episodes of bleach (50 eps) I’ve already been spoilt that Ichigo has like galaxy level attacks but so far I’m not so sure but if that’s a fact then I can’t deny facts Ichigo negs both and the whitebeard glaze from sengoku can’t be facts as him and Roger clash doesn’t even destroy an island so realistically the strongest a person is even ancient weapons aswell they’re mostly island level or multi island level at most and the Naruto verse could well be the same in destruction but the bleach verse yeah I hear it’s solar level
Bro DB has space travel so thats kind of not fair for others, Goku being whateverversal just because he can travel to other planets and could travel to other universes.
Luffy was already toying with the worlds strongest creature weakened yes but still that a feat 99.999999999% of the verse can't do. you give Luffy a 3-10x in power it's not one piece any more it's one punch man with pirates...
@@JackInglis-ne4qk at the time of writing i was still not at the gear 5 so it was before the gear 5 ofc if you give gear 5 but 10 times stronger it is basically one punch man.
The problem with people arguing for Chakra equating haki and Naruto characters being able to hit logias is that they want a one side bridge to counter logias and nothing to counter Chakra and if we consider the purpose of haki it is a amp and negation Power so they should be able to do their basic function against Chakra too that is to negate it's effects on them and conquers would outright negate most Chakra abilities
And ig this is why people do verse equalization to make it way less complicated?
@@alrmalikk this type of equalization would have worked better in other verses but in one piece there are two power systems with very different types of principle that counteract the other . And most people who argue to equalize haki are Naruto fans as they would need something to counter logias and paramecias and somehow justify genjustsu working so itachi can solo the verse but they never accept that genjutsu depends entirely on altering Chakra flow in the Chakra system of the targets body and is an entirely additional biological circulation system which even with verse equalization cannot exist in characters outside of Naruto and even if for some reason it works they won't accept haki users able to break the genjutsu because you need special method only available in Naruto to do so . They don't even try to understand an equalization should work in both ways
@@sujithsudhakaran745 It honestly doesn't surprise me that Naruto fans would do this, it's clearly so that their verse can hold an advantage over other animes in the form of unbreakable Genjutsu that can only be overcome using methods exclusive to the Naruto cast that are completely unavailable to the other anime. Whenever a Naruto character is placed against powerhouses from other series and are blatantly outgunned in terms of stats you better bet your ass you'll see some Genjutsu wanking. I've seen tons of threads involving Naruto against One Piece, DragonBall, Fairytail, NNT, and ect that go down that route...
Naruto fans are very fast to accept Genjutsu working on characters due to Equalization despite other characters not possessing a chakra circulation system, but don't accept those different verses having powers and abilities unique to them that can break them out of it. They would argue Itachi soloing with Genjutsu and sincerely mean it, but when the tables turn and people argue the Naruto character get Spirit Crushed or dropped by Conquerors Haki they'll throw a fit, despite that literally being a similar type of argument to what their making with Genjutsu.
@@150Hello i had this one guy argue with me for half an hour about how genjutsu works on luffy due to verse equalization but didn't want to accept that haki can break genjutsu and once I asked him if verse equalization should work both ways he just called me a kid and left
Most of the Naruto fans on the internet likes to make fun of others by calling them kid, clown , stupid insted of coming with any solid arguments.
@@alrmalikk luffy defeats them all luffy is amber reason which is life itself...yu cant defeat life
The only real debate is Luffy vs Naruto… otherwise Ichigo negs both man 💀 ☠️
Fr 😂
You underestimate Naruto overrated Luffy. The cosmology in Naruto is waaaaaay higher than the one piece cosmology. So this is not a debate Naruto negs Luffy.
And *Storm serie Naruto* negs Ichigo.
@@nandomo5209Storm serie? What?
@@nandomo5209cosmology In naruto 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 what are u saying cosmology for that means nothing until you’re universal **+
@@nandomo5209 bro really tryna bring up a game 💀
Some clarification for the one piece world being star level scale, this is because in many chapters of One Piece it has been confirmed and reaffirmed many times over that the one piece world is thousands of times larger then our own Earth. For instance, there is an island in One Piece called Alabasta that makes up less than .1% of the One Piece world's actual mass however, in chapter 182 it was stated/is cannon that a river in Alabasta alone was a mile wide. The entire island itself is close to the size of Australia in real life and there are thousands more islands, hundreds of which are actually larger than Alabasta. This makes physical feats in One Piece exceptionally hard to accurately measure and thus you will see a lot of physical scaling in one piece be multiplied hundreds of times over. Because it is simple for characters like a Gear 5 Luffy and especially a Prime Whitebeard to destroy islands like Alabasta in a single attack, the debate is over whether or not the feat should be calced at island level or to their cannon sizes which would be something like continental.
Well damn you know your stuff holyyyyy
@@alrmalikk one example too is onigashima island people is underestimating how huge that fcking island is there are mountain ranges at the top of its skull dome and yet its only a small part of wano country and kaido is lifting that gigantic island in the air with ease while fighting luffy and his allies
@@benchmarkgaming8847 wtf, that’s massive😂
what people ignore is that One Piece and an Earth's Density is way lower than a Suns.
Only because Size is comparable it doesn't mean that the Mass is comparable too.
Only thing I would say to that is that means their strongest attack is capable of destroying the world 1000x over not a casual feat which is also an attack that can be dogged j in terms of pure speed luffy is the slowest I don’t really feel like that’s debated much unless your bias
It is literally stated by the author that other than elemental counters haki is the only way to hit logias because their body is intangible
Butttt, it doesn’t make sense for other power systems to not be able to interact with them
@@alrmalikk that sounds like an issue with the other verses, not one piece lmao
@@alrmalikk Because one piece world are way more stronger then naruto world u should actually watch the show instead of watching tik toks
@@zavyh trueeee😂
Got me there🫢
5:42 I’ve genuinely seen people who argue that luffy isn’t light speed cause physics doesn’t allow it😂😂😂 like bro it’s fiction for a reason
scaling is applying physics to fiction but go off
@@nbell0089 no it literally isn't you can use physics but its not the main point. theres plenty of characters in fiction who break real life physics are you saying cant scale those characters
@@shimshawcreamtime2845 buddy power scaling quite literally is applying physics to a fictional character, that’s how they scale the speed, strength and power of the character and then place them into a category of power, then there’s AP scaling and ability scaling.
For the characters that break the laws of physics we take into account that they broke the laws of physics and scale them based on that. You can scale them using physics even though we know that it’s impossible and that it’s a fictional universe. Which invalidates whatever that person told you is wrong on that basis.
Physics is the mathematical understanding of a universe, there’s no limitation to it, only limitation on what our world can do
But again, that’s the entire concept of power scaling and what scalers do, they apply mathematics and physics to scale characters and then put them against each other in a verse equalization sense
How do you think they got Luffy to Lightspeed or hypersonic or continental in power
@@shimshawcreamtime2845 for example, if Naruto lifts a truck in the Naruto world, we can assume if not said otherwise, that that truck weighs the same as a truck in our universe and scale his physical strength based on that. If he is able to output and lift something that is 3 tons then he can probably push, or kick a character with the same level of force.
And with speed if Luffy can dodge kizarus beams which are Lightspeed, the he can react to and dodge and move beyond the speed of light. Power scalers don’t just say it, they also use physics to explain it.
his scaling is off lmfao, Luffy has never done an FTL feat until egghead 💀
Luffy solar system mode. Kind of exactly where the story seems to be headed tbh... Our rubbery boi ain't no goku, but he stronk.
Very stronk🫡
let's not forget that Luffy has just started to master his new firm and knowing what kind of fruit he has, you understand that this is not the strongest form of luffy yet
i mean who knows. maybe he will head towards goku level cos honestly it’s way too early to call any of the limitations gear 5 may have like we’ve literally only seen 2 fights with it in action so far
@@jadedjade64 luffy not hitting outerversql anytime soon
@@Yugimoto6161 I think it won't take that long (firstly because the manga's end is coming) but also because his fruit is litteraly the power of altering reality so once he master it who know what he can do.
Ichigo is built different
He would eat those 2
All i know is ichigo claps😂
Frrrr Ichigo is broken asf
@@alrmalikk I'm assuming you haven't read the manga but at the end, I'll just say one sentence,WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ICHIGO'S POWER LEVEL.
@@Subhan_Ahmad2007 does it skyrocket even more😭
@@Subhan_Ahmad20073 guys in bleach have no limits
Aizen
Ichigo
Kenpachi GOAT zaraki.......
@@ibrahimsurti4922 the funny thing is Shunsui's bankai quite literally has infinite potential as it was stated in one of the cfyow novels that it isn't limited by anything and can have any number of levels.
One example why power equalization across these universe is useless is because each universe follows different magic system. There's no such thing as equivalent power. They are just different because their universes work differently. Take for example, Logia. Only haki can negate logia. Also, chakra; even if ninjas block Ichigo's "chakra", it doesn't matter because he was using reiatsu. Using genjutsu (which controls the chakra flowing in the cerebral system) won't even work on Ichigo or Luffy, because they live in a universe where there is no chakra. There's nothing to genjutsu. Plus, take into account that in Bleach, one could suck in reiatsu from environment. Haki is a force, not an energy that flows within, unlike chakra and reiatsu. This power level comparison is just hilarious and fans fighting over it are dumb. Just enjoy the shows as they are. No one is any better for choosing a certain show.
You can compare strength, but do not take into account the magic system bcoz each of them work according their own universes.
The idea for power equalization is to make the battles have the base thing of being able to hurt each other. Its not useless because its point is to get rid of the stupid arguments of oh they're water and oil they won't mix. Its a hypothetical battle between characters from different fictional universes. If we can be hypothetical for them fighting, we can be hypothetical that their combat systems become connected and can be seen as just different applications. Them arguing about the magic systems is their way of having fun. Let them have their fun. If you think its dumb for you yourself to do this thats fine, you don't have to. But judging others for having fun in their own way is a bit ridiculous.
Your Right. My brain cells FRY when i see fans comparing stuff like Mewtoo vs Vegeta and now this. These are all seperate Universes. Just enjoy them all if you want but stop comparing.
The ONE PIECE world is not small it’s as big as the sun or Jupiter
don't say jupiter because jupiter is wayyyyyyyy smaler then the sun
? Op world is like 2.7 times bigger than our own
@@nvisiondk8791 But Jupiter is still far bigger than Earth which is what Bleach and Naruto take place on...
@@dontreadmyprofilepicture8817 but what i mention is that he was thinking jupiter and sun is comparable
@@nvisiondk8791 He said “or Jupiter”, as in its as big as the sun or at least Jupiter. If he was comparing them he would’ve said “and Jupiter.”
Ichigo> Luffy> Naruto. That's how I see it. Yes, Naruto is more powerful than Luffy but with Luffy's unbelievable speed and future sight. Naruto wont be able to touch him and all Luffy would have to do would be run Naruto low enough on stamina to then hit him a few times and end the fight. Of course Ichigo is much stronger than both so that's an easy fight.
nah luffy is in last place
@@Toddles argure
with the newest op chapters it waaayyy closer than people think.@@Toddles
dude, naruto has been fighting people with future sight since the beginning of the show, sasuke and the other uchihas have that ability. so ichigo > naruto > luffy. and naruto faught DAYS in a war and still went to fight sasuke, he wasnt even full strength at that fight either
@@good_hoonter_percy sharingan predicts movements but dosnt literaly see the future and the war arc happened in two days
Power scaling one piece is kinda hard because there are alot of things In play especially when it comes to haki and devil powers plus you have to factor in their awakenings it's alot of work people try to tend to equalize verse which is so dum because they feel like one verse is stronger then the other when it really not the case especially the Naruto community it can get very toxic arguing with them bleach is just a whole different conversation because ichigo has like 3 different power systems plus his banki which makes him so upserd for no reason I don't think the writer even know how powerful ichigo becoming Luffy can rival naruto we just have to see him go even higher after wano and see if he can reach a higher potential and see if he can rival ichigo Luffy is in the conversation we just waiting to see what he is capable of
luffy has only shown island level attacks your clearly full of shit the calk used to bring luffy up to star is more out of reace then naruto being multyuniversal by statements and datebook factors
I only say shit like "Go D. Usopp solos all anime verses negative diff" because I enjoy pissing off people who take it seriously.
Same like Kon soloing fiction or Ramen guy soloing 😂😂
6:20 Logias and Haki users aren't invincible, but characters in the Naruto verse don't have Haki, and therefore can't bypass the Logia advantage. Haki is very powerful, but not a passive ability, so it's possible to catch them lacking. Chakra is NOT the same as haki. The spirit pressure in Bleach could be comparable, I could see that bypassing logia.
The reason why op world is scaled so high in size is because the one-piece world has multiple moons and has hundreds of thousands if not millions of large islands.
Ichigo easily wins
The One Piece world is waayyyyyy bigger than our actual globe. That's why its star level or higher
Still a fodder verse
@@Bang_2393 Say what you want but at the end of the day whether luffy is weaker then both naruto and ichigo the one piece Manga/Anime is better then both combined story wise. And you cant argue that fact since its the best selling manga of all time and its not even close. So keep talking down on everyones opinions we all can see who the neckbeard with no friends is
@@jamesdsmith1217 who said I didn’t like one piece? I like all of the big three. Bleach is my favourite out of all of them but one piece was the first manga I read and Naruto was the first anime I watched, both of them still hold a place in my heart. BUT I will stand by my word when I say Bleach is not only my favourite but also the best out of the three and not only that the STRONGEST.
And btw if your confused I was talking about powerscaling not the story, but I guess the cope got to your head 🤣
@@Bang_2393 Bleach has a poorly written story. Same plot line every single arc. The only thing good about bleach is the fights everything else is worse than then other 2. There's a reason bleach was cancelled and not the other 2.
@@jamesdsmith1217Bro is coping lmao. The other two fodders are nothing compared to ichigo.
One piece world is huge it's not a large planet with a lot of moons but we don't know what happened to those moons
To be fair, One Piece world is very massive, and more times dangerous than any world. You can literally died just by sailing into the part of "grandline" or even just entering it. It took the StrawHat Pirates to get used to the situation in the other side of their world for a long time. So it's not easy to get through it, and so that's why strong people has to step on a very dangerous course. So White beard for example was called the Strongest man in the world, because he is. Just as I said, their world is not very easy, and you could die if you're a pirate or have no power or no one to protect you. White beard has the ability to cause Sea Quakes, and that's the dangerous part because it's his advantage in their world full of marines and pirates. And the Islands there can as big as Australia or bigger than it. And of course it's really hard to kill everyone, but White beard can, so he's a star level.
For Luffy, his Gear 5/fruit gives him the ability to turn his imagination to reality, which is already crazy. Luffy can literally imagine anything , and that will come true. He is a free man, and he has no things such as thinking or tactics when fighting. But the problem is, Luffy doesn't even know what his true powers are, he just think he's a rubber person only.
Also, I am not saying Luffy will beat both Naruto and Ichigo, I am just giving informations. Luffy still needs more experience and something that will benefits his true powers. This is not biased, I just literally think that this fight will be interesting IF this ever happened.
Based on actual feats and no multipliers/made up power boosts the real rankings of these characters are Naruto >>> Luffy ~ Ichigo. Naruto's got the best feats out of these 3.
By far
Honestly, there are too many missing factors and too many assumptions/equalizations that would have to be made for a solid answer to be found. So many possibilities.
The logia thing is very tricky it’s not that they can’t hit them it’s that the attack wouldn’t effect them because take kizaru for excnaple it would be you basically punching light see you can punch light but you can’t harm light think of it like that
Zanpakuto can directly attack the soul, so Ichigo definitely can harm Logia's.
bro tell me about it cause if your power is greater than the logia =can hit. but introduse haki and now power dont mater, you can still hit them. like what?!
4:32 @AlrMallik it’s small star because the one piece world is roughly 4x the size of regular earth
the one pice word is like 40 or 50 times bigger that ours, is like half of the sun size, or close to jupiter size ( so thats why is star level)
Okay you seem to know One Piece, why is it that much bigger? Please.... Please don't tell me, its not because of pixel scaling as I have seen so many times........
@@blindone4473 pixel scaling.
@@smokansplayz7507 Gotcha
@@blindone4473 im pretty sure it was stated by oda multiple times and onigashima has literall mountain ranges on its skull
@@blindone4473 bruh thats like asking why is our earth this size. Like nigga we dont know thf the author said it
I mean technically all three in a realitistic setting would be solar system level cause moving THAT fast would just destroy everything
1) whitebeard isn't planetary just because they say he was going to destroy the world but only shake multiple islands doesn't mean he is planetary
2) none of luffy gears are stated to have multiples op fans just make the shit up
3) g5 luffy do have toon force but on a low lvl which is Body Control (Characters can frequently stretch, bend or otherwise manipulate their bodies in unnatural ways) and low lvl of reality manipulation
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN all that you just said wasn't mentioned in the story and his strongest attack was the tsunami it only shake multiple islands doesn't mean he is planetary if shaking multiple islands make whitebeard planetary then everyone in one piece is planetary 🤓🤓
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN only one person stated he was going to destroy the world and that's was sengoku and again saying he is going to destroy the world but only shaking multiple islands is not a planetary feat and WB strongest attack was the tsunami and that was big as mountain it was only going to destroy marineford not the world let alone oda himself literally contradict himself he went from saying WB can destroy the world to a old who can destroy a sheet of ice that is big as a continent you see how op power scaling don't make sense but y'all will try and say WB is planetary but it's just a hyperbole
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN you just prove my point you watch op power scaling videos that just people Wank them like how you going to watch me and say WB is planetary and has zero feats just one statement and he shake multiple islands then say he is planetary but post time skip the strongest feat is a old man spitting a sheet of ice that's is the size of a continent again WB world destroying statement is hyperbole because WB/no one else in the whole show has shown a planetary feat
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN again saying WB is planetary and has zero feats one statement is just a hyperbole and yes oda did contradict himself going from saying WB is planetary to saying Chinjao is Continental to kaido lifting a island you see how op power scaling make 0 sense pls show me a planetary feat from any one in one piece then I'll say WB is planetary
@@FCKYOU.GOODMAN and yet you still didn't prove WB is planetary because all you saying is WB was going to destroy world so that make him planetary smartass 🤡🤓🤓
2) oda went from planetary statement>>>>> Continental feat >>>>>>> island feat you see how retarded y'all one piece fans are just trying to make op power scaling sound so good when it's not "mama op power scaling makes sense "🤡🤓 yall will take a hyperbole to scale a character from op try an scale one piece characters for your self instead of watching people wank them
3) age matter in every anime example bleach dragon ball z naruto etc the more they get old the more powerful they become same with one piece
4)kaido lifted onigashima with his dragon flames which give him that feat but reading your comments just prove that you have 0🧠 cells and that you make no sense but I never said it you did
I'm really sorry for those tic tok idiots but Logia can't actually be hit without haki unless it's their natural weakness
For those who don't know, if you ate logia you literally becomes the element instead of getting the power like if you ate fire fruit, you don't get fire power but become fire itself and even if you hit them it does literally no damage to them since punching fire, thunder, ice or light is gonna hurt those elements it's the same.
There are circumstance like luffy was able to hit enel a logia type because luffy is rubber and enel was thunder and crocodile who had sand fruit, luffy was able to hit him once luffy was covered in water to hit sand.
So you can hit them but you need haki to hit him or just be or use their natural weakness
Tho there are some logia who just can't be hit without haki since their power have no natural weakness like light fruit, smoke fruit, Gas fruit etc.
They can still be countered by other things that aren't elements like existence erasure or negation abilities
@@tmakster7748 that's just assumption but it's not like logia can't regenerate a arm or leg if it's erase also these are 2 different powers one is chakra which is energy in a person which allows them to use powers where as devil fruit are dreams and haki is a will of the user or users ambition, they are no where near same.
I don't think existence erasure or negation of abilities works on dreams of people.
@@HoneyPepperXwX Yes it does. Are you stupid
@@HoneyPepperXwX yeah but for ichigos case he aint attacking their body he is dealing damage to their souls, something they cant defend against, all zanpaktou deal damage to the soul itself so logias aint really a problem against bleach, naruto would struggle against them but then again any water type jutsu is getting the job done basically
@@Ghost-yc7eq I mean it's ICHIGO...that guy is literally him.
4:25 why? Because OP fans really like their pixel scaling... If I remember correctly there was a globe somewhere in the manga and because of the pixels in that panel OP world is 50-80x size of earth. Because........ Oda and other mangaka draw their stuff so pixel perfect so others can pixel scale it obviously lol.
no, it's just stated in the series that the one piece planet is way larger than our own earth. You just need to know how to read.
@@silmaril7285 Cool if it does, I just said what I have heard the fans say. I don't follow the series so closely myself to remember every detail about it. Just curious, is it stated how much larger or just that its way larger?
As my only problem with their world being way way larger is that the travel times make no sense then, as they are using sails and wind to travel. If its like 2-3 times larger, I don't mind honestly
Editing just to put it here that even in this comment section, people seem to have really different ideas how big it is, some say star level, some say thousands, 40-50 times and so on.. stopped reading after those.
@@blindone4473 it's not, just from learning how much alabasta is big, and by knowing there are millions of islands, it's not that hard to understand. Also oda did reveal in a sbs that the one piece world is larger. It doesn't matter just how much. Travel time is not an issue, the ocean currents in one piece are not like ours, its wild. currents are so strong that they can even shot upwards, and destroy islands. The new world and grand line have inimaginable weather conditions. Read/watch one piece, it's worth it, everything is explained. Also, the one piece earth have several moons, another testament to its difference compared to earth. (we explicitely see them in a library, in ohara, a archeological island)
@@silmaril7285 Don't worry I am a OP fan.. just not a hardcore one who knows all the details.
I have seen the panel when its said that OP world has like 20 mil islands. It isn't that crazy though as earth has close to million.
@@blindone4473 ye but those islands are intended to be inhabitted, and we know how big alabasta is. Multiply that by a million and you get a bigger world. But that's not the greatest argument, as oda straight up said it.
The only difference between tgem is Ichigo is the only one with actual uni+ or low multi scaling.
The one argument I think should definitely be taken into consideration is that Kaido in One Piece is equal to Pain in Naruto. The strongest of the group that is basically the biggest road block from the start while Imu and The 5 Elders is the equivalent of Madara. The villain that gets built up as the one who thought the old legendary hero (JoyBoy and Hashirama) once the protag is close to the end goal. Luffy became an Emperor and Naruto was recognized as a hero by the village. So basically you can argue that the comparison should be Wano Luffy vs Pain arc Naruto. I personally don't care about that since I love both series and mostly leave it at that, but just some food for thought.
Kaido is definitely not the equal of Pain. Pain's strongest attack that required him to use a bit of his lifespan was only City level while Kaido is easily Continental to Multi Continental.
@@vlor1414 I wasn't saying they're equal in strength, but that compared to others in their verse they're the same level. Kaido is to Imu what Pain is to Madara.
Bruh.. thats a terrible comparison.. i see no feats from Pain that can top Kaidous Thunder bagua..
Kaidou has been fighting all night long with numerous high tiers one piece characters while lifting onigashima..
Kaido is NOT Pain level, Kaido fought two groups of strong people while also moving an entire island by himself for at least an hour or two
4:30 it says on screen the One Piece planet is apparently as large as our sun.
Everytym I hear the words planetary and whatnot to describe a person's strength my brain just hits the snooze button
A lot of these cross series powerscaling debates are starting to feel like headcanon to me. Seems more like people pick who is their favorite and try to justify to themselves that they are stronger.
You really can’t actually hit a logia unless you have haki OR you have a power that combats the element. Other than that, you are basically fucked unless you use some sort of environmental damage that will somehow do something to them.
Or if they have the ability to just interact with non-physical things without any form of hax or weapon, then they are good
What about soul crushing
@@raoufkirito9206 this has been demonstrated in one piece. Soul based attacks won't work if the will of the opponent is too strong. Jinbe vs big mom
@@Youthuba are you putting Big mom and any captain lvl shinigami in the same tier ?
@@Youthuba even if soul crush doesnt work , shinigami have hado and kido, for exemple hado 90 which Can crush through Time and space
4:45 the reasons is because some scalers calc say that the one piece world is bigger than our Sun that’s why it’s star level
Fiction isn't suppose to make sense... Fiction isn't reality Reality is non-fictional so saying characters can exist in the real real world sounds dumb.
6:02 so the planet in One Piece is the size of a small star. And since the density of solid is more than plasma therefore, the planet scales to star level
I do feel like If we take in to account luffys gear 5, that Could be very op for luffy. Because whatever luffy can think of can happen (almost everything) Depending on how weird ass his imaginations become he could have a good chance. But at the moment, he dont stand a chance XD
Yeah, now that it's revealed, lufffy literally has infinite power, so its really not debateable anymore
I'm not trying to argue or anything... but i think toon force will be limited to something...
because if it's what you guys are saying...
Blackbeard or akainu are just fooders now which I'm sure is not...
plus there's literally a guy in bleach who's power is imagination...
he can imagine Turing your bones to cookies or just summon you to literal space and all that...
I am not sure why people even bother to compare characters from different stories. Just because it is a Manga does not mean there needs to be a reason for a crossover. And no, a character does not have to be OP to be good. Manga is just a form of storytelling, where illustration is used with the story. Anime is just a form of storytelling where the illustrations are now animated into motion with sound. It is a medium of communication, and as such there does not need to be any reason for stories told in these mediums to have any connection. This is of course the same for Live Action, where people rather than animation are used to tell the story in a realistic backdrop.
Nobody claims all live action film has to be connected. And nobody bothers to compare John Wick and Steve Rogers together and argues who is stronger. So why do this for Naruto, One Piece and Bleach? If it sounds ridiculous for someone to compare Aragorn from Lord of the Rings with Jason from Friday the 13th, why do people have to go around comparing Naruto and Luffy and Ichigo? The stories of these three Manga/Anime are no more connected than LOTR and Friday the 13th.
Go figure....
luffy abilities are wacky, plus the world does not scale to naruto verse/our earth/most verses, hence i see the downplay, ppl believe what you can destroy is your scale, and get luffy island level, for me he is JUST around naruto's level
above*
@@azim9169not even close.
He's multicontinental, wanking him and truly assuming the planet is star sized it would be large planatary.
I mean technically gear 5 luffy could be multiversal level. I mean he basically has cartoon powers with is op as heck. From what we know how his power works he could just make all of reality a tangible thing and rip it apart like a sheet of paper. But that's exactly the thing:
From what we know so far, we simply don't know if and where the limits are. Could he fight mui goku and just fold the space around goku and squish him? We dont know.
He has only been able to mimic the properties of toon force, not ACTUAL toonforce
@@ElderBaguette his power is to make his imagination reality. "Toon force" is just a term fans use because his application of the Nika fruit up until this point was basically nothing else. From what we know his powers are he should be able to do anything as long as he can imagine it.
@@RayAkuma Not really, wasn't really confirmed either or even shown, Luffy's "toon force" is basically mimicking the properties of the movement of a cartoon character and turning all properties into rubber making it look cartoonish.
@@ElderBaguette it was confirmed that he has the powers of the sungod Nika and what he stands for was explained. Going by other mythical zoans like Yamato's we can see they have a primary element like he has ice but it entails much more. I'd like to see you explain Luffy conjuring googles out of his hair with basic rubber physics.
@@RayAkuma Again, it doesn't alter reality -_-, those goggles are literally from his hair that gained rubber properties to solidify into a goggle, hence why it's a RUBBER goggle, he didn't do anything like an actual "toon force" character would do, he literally just added rubber.
He said One piece is solar because the planet the one piece is taking place in is VASTLY bigger then Earth. Its roughly the size of a dwarf star.
bro the other day i ran into someone in a tik tok comment section claiming naruto solos the one piece verse because naruto is solar system lvl
The biggest issue for Luffy n Naruto can’t see Ichigo and can’t physically hurt Ichigo even if they had spiritual based attacks Ichigo would tank them pretty easily he tanks all types of broken spiritual attacks 24/7
Ok Naruto fans haters probably gonna say that lol
the reason why whitebeard is ''small star planet'' level is because the one piece world is several times bigger than our earth making the one piece planet as big as a small star and this is all because of his devil fruit i think is haki plays a huge rule in him being strong
Luffy stomps on naruto badly imo it may look like one piece happy and doesnt look strong but nahh… C tier level characters some already multi-continental and tank explosions to face but high tiers id say Large planetary to star but with multipliars for both you can get both naruto and luffy solar system base off statements alone
No he doesn’t 💀
Luffy is still multi Continental
@@Remisaku yeah he is
Dosen't even get to planatary without using the star sized planet bullshit.
Tbh the "logia invulnerability" argument is kinda corny imo. Sure, you turn into an element. Kizaru can turn into light all he wants. Ichigo will just atomize the photons that make up his light. Eminem can turn into lightning all he wants. Ichigo can just shrug off his lightning bolts then atomize the matter that makes up his lightning. Akainu can become lava all he wants. Ichigo will just atomize the lava. Logia invulnerability doesn't really matter if you're against someone who can casually atomize you out of existence.
The size of the planet is One Piece is the size of a star. The Alabasta kingdom is the size of the continent of Australia in the real world, and on the grand line it's just considered an island.
These are my scalings for them:
Luffy: Continental(Asia)
Naruto: Planetary(Earth)
Ichigo: Star(Sun)
So,basically Luffy
😂😂😂😂LOLthe earth in one piece is thousands of times bigger than our earth whitebeard was stated to be able to destroy the world Luffy is 3/4 as strong as whitebeard
@@Jesuslovesyou-i3d OP fan really hold senguko statement so strong and there is no feat shown backing it up
in boruto "kid naruto" scale to one otsutsuki put him to planetary/solar-system
then if you use "statement" in the narutoverse like the "space-time" and "parallel universe" and "dimension" so base naruto will be freakin universe+ without the feat is shown
bro... do you know how big the world of one piece is? a small island in the one piece world is probobly bigger than asia. luffy beat kaido with a fist bigger than onigashima which is probably bigger than a place like iceland.
Bro Ichiho is Multiversal wtf are you on about
NOBODY in one piece is planetary, except maybe Whitebeard but even he has no proof. Therefore STATEMENTS without FACT are HERESY. Luffy caps at multi continental maybe even country level. Let us be fr here One piece is the WEAKEST verse in the big three. Name me ONE planetary feat in one piece that IS NOT a statement. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMES TO MIND. Hell even when it comes to statements the only one that I can think of is Whitebeard. ONE PIECE IS FODDER!!! COPE🤣🤣🤫🤫
6:32 this is incorrect and you have been misinformed. Katakuri doesn't have a logia he can just morph his body to dodge attacks. Logias are a passive defensive ability that are similiar to ghosts minus the phasing through the wall bs. They can pick things up and touch things when they touch it however when they're touched or hit they turn into the element that their fruit gives them. Sorry but the only thing i can think of that goes through logia is the truth seeking orbs. (In naruto at least)
Imagine an attack thats planet splitting and then someone having the power to grab hold of that attack and use it as his own. Then using the attack on its original owner. Luffys power is limited ONLY by his imagination...and we are only seeing the early stages of his powers. Don't forget Luffy can now change the physics and landscape of his environment. He can cause both Naruto and Ichigo to become cartoonish/vulnerable to him and the world is his playground.
bruh... ichigo fought characters who can't die and keeps keeping stronger with each defeats...
he fought someone who can see all possible futures and can alter the futures...
and comparing to luffy who's is rubber based imagination...gremmy basically have the power of imagination.. which can turn bones to biscuit or summon you outside space who literally can do anything he thinks of...
luffy's toon force isn't all that great as of right now and the gap is just too much even with the hax luffy has
@@weird_perspective68 I suppose, I actually never watched alot of Bleach so I guess I cant truly compare. Having said that, DON'T underestimate Luffys version of Toon force. Kaido was suppose to be near indestructible and Immune to most attacks, his Toon Force forces ANYONE or ANYTHING he comes into contact with to be at his playing mercy. Now...YES it's still just barely Awakened so we wont know just how good it'll be, but Luffy literally changes the laws of the anime physics around him defying all logic.
Now in truth, these debates are all speculation since each character will never be able to jump ship from 1 anime universe to the next....except Zoro 😆.
@@gorevarix4036 what I mean when I say luffy toon force is limited is that luffy is still not the strongest in his verse...
even after gear 5 I don't think Akainu, Blackbeard, shanks or the other guys are fooder characters...and this is what I meant when I said luffy's toon force is limited...
AS OF RIGHT NOW, the current Luffy...I don't think in terms of raw stats he goes up to ichigo...
as for Naruto I really haven't watched it that well so I'm gonna leave it up there...
@@weird_perspective68 Ah I see your point. Yes you may have a good point and like I said BARELY watched any Bleach so my context for it is very slim.
@@weird_perspective68bruh gremmy didn't summon kenpachi out of space he created the space with heavenly bodies inside( the novels confirms it too)
I am just saying there is still a whole lot of arc left for OP and Luffy is this strong now imagine his full potential
Planets in one piece be bigger than normal stars so makes sense if white ears can destroy the world he’s star
What I find the most ridiculous is how people take these anime characters and for some reason imagine that every author that created the power systems within their series had all these measurements and power calculations we use in physics. It's absolutely ridiculous. People refer to some calculations about power but then in the next sentence ignore how nothing can be, based on any calculations, faster than light nor even light speed. Fans omit physics when it suits them but bring them about when it does, referring to some math calculations like that's a proof.
Whitebeard is said to be planetary or star level but only Sengoku said he can destroy the "world", which could mean that he could destroy all places with time, it doesn't mean he can onetap the whole planet...
Similarly, we take much of what is said in the series' as a direct proof. Still, in other instances, these fans are ready to jump to "We must look at their feats", again when it suits them.
Fact is: fiction is fiction, it's not real. If we take into consideration physics and powers, moving at lightspeed with the mass of these characters would automatically create nuclear explosions or even black holes. This doesn't happen, so it's not realistic. We cannot make comparisons using any mathematical calculations because the stories are the result of human minds of the creators and they have little understanding of these calculations. Even if they did have that knowledge, they obviously omitted that. Yet, here we are, making power calculations when it suits us to categorize characters to scales that make absolutely NO SENSE given the scales of the entire franchises. People go "1000 times faster than light speed", yet even though I've delved into the story and read it for 20 years, I have absolutely no recollection of EVER seeing nor analyzing/deducing from what I've seen that anyone in a series is ever faster than light. I refuse to believe it because it destroys all other physics calculations.
I blame Dragonball. DB gave other mangas a lot of means to scale powers, and this lead to powerful energy attacks that far outweight the durability of the wielder. For example, if Naruto is planetary level, it doesn't matter, because if he uses a force that can destroy a planet, he will die as well. Also, environmental destruction is very different compared to a pinpoint attack. Just because a sniper doesn't create this huge, fancy explosion and environmental destruction, it doesn't mean it's not powerful or even better than an explosive.
Character A can blow up the environment, character B can oneshot anyone despite making minimal environmental damage. I'd always vote for B to win because A isn't going to commit SD.
If you're willing to use physics in one instance but omit it in another, you are committing a special pleading fallacy and the argument dies there.
Oda made One Piece super hard to powerscale, example: Crocodile, Gecko Moria, Marineford Whitebeard, etc.
So you cant rlly compare characters in One Piece, its more abt world building and AP.
And since its already hard to compare characters in One Piece, its even harder to compare One Piece characters with other anime.
And keep in mind that Bleach and One Piece arent finished so Luffy could surpass Ichigo or Ichigo could go beyond Luffy depending on how the stories go. But the debate will change with time so there isnt a final statement.
And when fans ask Oda in SBS for how far can Barto spread his barrier or how far Luffy could stretch, he only gives vague answers.
You really think luffy is surpassing ichigo who is low multi in the end of the series (all thanks to anime buff)?
yeah it's fiction. nothing can go faster than light speed , because if it go faster than light speed the size or volume of that object would be zero. that means the object doesn't exist, and that's just make no sense 🙂
Soul reapers technically dont exist in physical form so Bleach kinda made it somewhat sensible
I can answer why Yamamoto dodnt destroy soul society in the TYBW, it wa stated he was massively holding back in his fight with Ywach, and Ywach even stated the old Yamamoto would have not cared and would have gone all out.
In the Japanes raw the Kanji for the Realms is actually translated as Universe, soul society, heuco mundo and the Living realms are their own universes all connected to the Dangai.
Hell is infinite and transcends time and space, Heuco mundo is literally stated in the manga ans by Kibo to be infinite in size.
Even the light novels, even then if you dont want to follow that, squad zero by themselves going Bankai can shake all three realms and the living realm is based on our world with similar events like traveling to the moon wich is still a universal feat just to shake all of the living realm, again in kanji its universe.
Did he not read the part where it explains that the world of one piece is larger than our planet
All fun and games till gear 5 grabs a truth seeking orb like a dodge ball and chucks it back
I can't wait for the fairy tail 100 year quest manga to be animated and compare their verse to Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach
Honestly naruto should be solar system level and higher like multi solar to galaxy based on how he beats kaguya who was gonna wipe out time space with a star a planet and then momo would be higher as he was taking more energy and even created a parallel dimension from the naruto universe and it shows many stars and red shift nebulas and naruto baryon mode if it’s actually based on nuclear fusion would be a billion times of a amp on his base because baryon particles go absolutely crazy with just a gram of the stuff we breathe having energy to that of buildings which naruto has more then just a gram and it’s multiplying his power
Kaguya was gonna destroy her dimension via hax so that means she doesn’t scale to it.
@@Bang_2393 she wasn’t using it just with jax’s she used her energy to destroy it it takes six paths energy to create truth seeker orbs she also was shown it using her chakra to make it she also created the dimension with her own power cause she disputed power using her chakra to destroy it
@@Bang_2393 she wasn’t using it just with jax’s she used her energy to destroy it it takes six paths energy to create truth seeker orbs she also was shown it using her chakra to make it she also created the dimension with her own power cause she disputed power using her chakra to destroy it
the reason why he was instantly star level is because the one piece world has 8 or 9 moons ours has one for a planet to have nine moons it has to be 8 to 9 times bigger
9x bigger than Earth doesn't mean the planet is a star, 1.3 millions earth can fit in the sun
Personally I think Luffy could dish out some serious pain for Goku, but don't think I would go as far as to say that he could win against him.
Goku was ripping space just clashing hands with Beerus...how is Luffy gonna deal any damage to a person like that?
@@Ghost-yc7eq🤓"oh but Luffy has tune force and can see the future"🤓
-20% of this comment section
@@JackInglis-ne4qk stg, Goku forced himself into the future when he went against Hit so even if Luffy could see it there is nothing he can do to avoid it plus his toon force his incredibly weak, he aint like sponge bob, buggs bunny or other toon characters like that, he is extremely downgraded in compairision
@@Ghost-yc7eq idk if you're trying to prove me wrong or something like that I don't think I could have made it more obvious I was joking...
Give ichigo that chair from the first episode and he still solos Naruto and luffy .....😂😂😂😂
I think he meant whitebeard is star level because one piece world is as large as sun
Most of one piece fans are really delusional for saying one piece world is star sized...
They crossed the red line twice for less than 60 days,
They've running around alabasta kingdom for less than 3 days...
One piece is has the most broken logic in all anime...
the planet is as big as a star
Im only at 5:37 but if luffy is 1000x faster then light, shouldn't he be faster then kizaru then?
Difference between combat and travel speed
Ichigo is totally folding Luffy and Naruto
for the power scalers out there, CHARACTERS ARE NOT SOLAR SYSTEM LEVEL IF THEY DEAL WITH OTHER SOLAR SYSTEM CHARACTERS. that naruto argument at the beginning was so dumb wtf, momoshiki absorbed kaguya's dimension so he's solar system level?! can he absorb their main solar system? NO! GG, and Naruto will never be solar system just because he defeated kaguya and momoshiki, only thing that makes a character solar system and universal and what not, IS THEIR OWN FEATS!!!
You just don't understand.
Momoshiki never absorbed kaguya's dimension, it's his dimension that he made.
And dumb argument cuz you need to scale to a person to beat them bro.
If kaguya is solar and she has solar ap,then to beat her you need to be atleast close.
@@somanchipranav1964 solar only in these sense that she has her own dimension with celestial bodies, she didn't have enough AP or DP to deal solar level damage toh the actual universe. Unless a character has enough power to destroy a large planet, they're never solar level
@@zuratoki except she destroyed her own? She doesnt have to destroy this system for her to be able to be solar? There are many solar systems out there in the universe...i know this blew ur mind rn but yeah universe is kinda big...or she can just create and destroy her own system like what she did...i mean ur argument makes no sense seeing as ur acting as our or that animes system is the only system in the universe that she has to destroy in order for her to be scaled to solar system...
@@Ghost-yc7eqok
@@Ghost-yc7eq yes, the character should have enough power output to destroy the solar system to be solar level lol, it can be valid only when the main universe of the anime is being taken into account, it can be calculated mathematically.
devil fruits are most likely derived from haki considering haki itself is the manifestation of ones will so if billions of times more will is being focused toward wanting something i think it would manifest thus the devil fruit kinda like jjk but WAY more complicated so life force wouldnt be able to touch a logia user because its completely different from the will that is haki so the devil fruit weakness is haki because devil fruits themselfs are derived from it were as ki or chakra is more physical or species reliant which haki just isnt because its will in and of itself
how tf would naruto hit straight up light 💀 or lava, or water??? you can’t hurt a logia user unless you have haki or know their weakness( like crocodile with water/blood against luffy)
Naruto is universal he literally cracked the universe
I have Luffy at large planet-large star
Naruto at Large star+
Ichigo at high universal-low multiversal
We don't know exactly how these powers would interact with each other, but Luffy's will is unbreakable and he has kingly ambitions, so would that mean he has a strong soul? I would think he might not get wiped out immediately, but I am not familiar with Bleach. Depending on how good Ichigo is at fighting, Luffy might be able to last a little while, but it sounds like he would not win.
The power gap is so huge that Luffy wouldnt stand a chance, your kingly ambitions dont mean nothing against soul reapers, the gap is so wide that a random lieutenant from Bleach woould have a decent shot of soloing whole of one piece and Ichigo is far far faaaaaar strobger than any of lieutenant, this dude yes he got it mostly right but he kinda did lowball ichigo seeing as Ichigo can be scaled to uni, questioning solar ichigo is well a lowball tbh there isnt any other word that i can use to describe it, the power gap is just waaay to big i mean Bleach has characters that create universes just by thinking about it, unkillable monsters and i literaly mean unkillable like Aizen(dude cant be killed in no way shape or form, was erased completely from existance and still revived)and on top of that Spiritual pressure is basically like conquerors haki but on massive amount of steroids and to top it all off Bleach characters arent even living beings, they are all souls so basically if Luffy would even want to exchange a blow with Ichigo he would need to find a way to hurt souls, to deal soul damage and to defend against soul attacks which these verses just arent really capable of doing at least not to the efficiency that would allow them to survive 1 blow from Ichigo
@@Ghost-yc7eqngl lieutenants not doing shit💀
@@hilarasingh591 Shuhei and Renji would love to have a word 😂 both are easily scalable far far above
@@Ghost-yc7eq Rukia also scales far, far above.
@@furryfloofer8742 yeah but she isnt a liuetenant, nor was she. She went from being unseated due to Byakuya to straight up captain of squad 13
Can't believe people think wb is star level. First of all, thier arguments about the size just proves that they don't know maths🗿
Plus it's a statement with no feat at all. Kakashi is said to be omniscient so we take it as well?
We need feats like Momoshiki destroying a star, creating a solar system etc.
The one piece planet is only slightly smaller then our sun....meaning destroying the planet = destroying a sun size wise, and Whitebeard on his death bed with 1 fist was able to shift the tectonic plates with 1 attack. and was stated by the author and multiple characters in the manga that he could destroy the planet. 1 island in once piece is the size of Australia... and whitebeard and instantly destroy MULTIPLE islands without breaking a sweat. Its really not hard to put 2 and 2 together and understand how he can be scaled to star level
The one piece plant is as big a star
These power scaling videos have absolutely no concept of suspension of disbelief, lol. If these were accurate there'd be no worlds to speak of, nothing to scale. These characters would've torn absolutely everything apart with minor scuffles.
i believe luffy beats naruto just because of his abilities alone, I mean he's got advanced observation and future sight alone makes him a big threat because he would see every attack naruto throws at him plus current luffy has duraneg in every single punch he throws, and last time I checked naruto is a normal human so every punch luffy lands on naruto is just going to absolutely crush narutos internal organs. I do agree with your scaling with naruto, luffy and ichigo btw, I just think luffy and his haki out matches naruto.
Your take you be valid if Naruto didn't have soul manipulation, existence erasure, substitution and reality manipulation through the ying yang so Naruto >> G5 Luffy fn
Tbh luffy being star level simply due to "the planet being massive" is a bit stupid but since everyone dickriding it i decided to accept it 😂 there is no way to accurately measure how big the planet actually is from a pixelated pic but whatever, its deffinetly bigger than our planet yes but yeah ill accept it anyway, also baryon mode is just a disapointment tbh
I think the video miscalculated Luffy's power in relation to Whitebeard. They seem to not realize that Whitebeard has the power to destroy the world 'because of his devil fruit' the Quake Quake fruit. This allows him to create massive earthquakes. Luffy can't do that, and therefore all the calculations during that moment are irrelevant.
I feel like Gear 5 Luffy stands a solid chance against Ichigo if he can’t get a hit in first. Unfortunately, Luffy and blades don’t end well.
Also with how Ichigo's powers work, shinigami have the ability to just say no to hax if there's a big enough stat gap. WHile I think Luffy could probably have a chance to ink out a win in equal stats, the thing is, Ichigo could just neg his hax aand atomize him with a getsuga
@@KLOTEROLEROTAR gear 5 say no to neg his hax and what is Ichigo doing?
@@jeffjohnson598 Atomizing him. Ichigo simply scales higher. Taking into account the laws of both universes, Ichigo scales significantly higher and this gear 5 cannot effect him because he can just say "no"
@@KLOTEROLEROTAR he a god bro what he say goes and kaido was essentially stronger before they fought but the toon force still caught him
@@jeffjohnson598 He is island level at best. Ichigo is Uni+. The spiritual pressure of a single getsuga will negate gear 5th and all his haki then atomize him. Luffy's powers are impressive, but against a bleach char, having a strong ability isn't enough. You need the stats to back it up and at the end of the day, the top of the one piece power scale is very low in the bleach power scale.
I love one piece but saying luffy is planetary is insane lol
I’m a massive one piece tard but I know for a fact Luffy ain’t near either their level yet tbh. I think saying he’s near in power to Naruto is a massive reach. But in fairness if Luffy masters his toon force then it’s over for the other two. Though I don’t know if one piece will end with Luffy breaking the fourth wall and or any like omnipotent stuff toon force characters can do lol. That would be too much.
Not a massive reach but a reach nontheless
Finally a one piece fan without bias Thank u for being an emotionally intelligent human
Idk men he defeated kaido and kaido and white beard are simliar strength level and in the story it's told multiple times that whitebeard could destroy the world. Which is in site as big as our sun. So it's hundreds and hundreds of times bigger then narutos world. So whitebeard could technically destroy the naruto world when it comes to pure strength very fast.
But but having destruntur power doesn't equal being good at battles. Well but prime whitebeard Was pretty strong so I feel like if not Luffy then whitebeard could solo Naruto. But I'm not an expert I think it's just a logical conclusion. Like whitebeard could technically destroy narutos sun in the naruto verse. So yeah when it comes to pure destruction one piece verse is stronger.
He doesn't have toon force☠️
The main reason one piece was scaled this high is mostly because the world of one piece has been estimated to be bigger than our star and alabasta is estimated to be the size of Australia so when you factor this into account to what crocodile did that could make him continental because he could have completely destroyed that island and buried it in sand though for their world he would be city at least for white beard to destroy a planet bigger than our sun would make him star level though in their world that would make him planetary so scaling in one piece is very difficult since trying to compare their feats to our worlds logic scales them insanely high
if u dont believe naruto can beat luffy we can debate bruh luffy scales to Large Planetary Because Of His Feats Destroying Some Of One Pieces Earth Barley Star Lvl While Naruto Here Is UNI+ OR SOLAR SYSTEM TO LARGE STAR LVL OR GALAXY.
naruto never surpassed kaguya man 😭. momoshiki knew the version of kaguya when she didnt eat the chakra fruit and he didnt even know that she did. naruto never damaged kaguya either. yes he has hit her some times but he never damaged her or put so much as a scratch on her. also he didnt beat toneri in his base form since his fist, the one he punched toneri with, was coated in kurama chakra. naruto is low star lvl at BEST and he isnt even mftl wdym 💀. naruto, in sage of six path which is the form used in this vid, dodged madara's lightining fang at point blank range which is an ftl feat if not ftl reaction time only feat. he was even caught off guard by it since he said "woah!!!" after dodging it in the manga. keep in mind that luffy DID THAT SHIT POST TIMESKIP IN BASE WHILE DODGING KUMA'S LASERS AND EVEN CALLS THEM SLOW. naruto at best is ftl+ but no where near mftl. also im not a naruto hater, i just hate the fans who overrate naruto and its verse way too much. as u can see that naruto is still strong but putting him in solar system lvl is just absurd. also naruto might not get stronger since he just lost kurama too. even if we include baryon mode, 10 mins isnt gonna do him much good. also for those who say, "well luffy also has low time limit". yes, yes he does. but you do know that he can bypass is right? when he reached his time limit, he regenerated back his stamina instantly since his power of imagination grants his wish, which was to keep fighting, hence filling up his stamina. ofc he cant just solo with toon force alone but this is one of the things we saw him do with his toon force in the anime/manga. nothing matters tho since none of them would even be able to stand in ichigo's presence let alone touch him 💀
using the whitebeard statement to wank luffy to star level is absolutely cope. luffy is nowhere near that strong.
Im a diehard one piece fan😂 so I think Luffy will win against Naruto. Here's why. PTS Luffy is beyond light speed since he dodge the pacifista's lazer attack effortlessly, but people debate this because Luffy learned observation haki, but it's shown that the light was coming and Luffy ignore it and tilt his head when the light is about to hit him, and then he said: TOO SLOW, so base on that, Luffy is beyond lightspeed, Luffy is not even using gear 2 at that part which is a 4x multiplier.
But then he got blitz by doffy. then Luffy uses 4th gear to overcome that speed. now we have kaido, and at the first Luffy vs kaido fight, Luffy was using gear 4th but still got blitz by kaido who is drank, meaning kaido is not using any of he's strength at all. But rooftop Luffy baseform is now able to one v one hybrid form kaido aka strongest form kaido who is definitely way WAY, faster than drunk kaido. And then we got sungod,
who is beyond all he's forms before including speed. In that manga he is running so fast that the air is burning, living a fire trail on his back.
Now go explain why Naruto is faster than Luffy. If you said watch Naruto first I have done that already. All episode, Naruto, Shippuden, Boruto done.
luffy is faster but naruto is definitely stronger after momoshiki and kaguya (not including baryon mode, otherwise its low diff win)
good arguments, but there are but 1) luffy has just awakened his power and he does not even know what kind of fruit he has 2) if you know what kind of fruit luffy has and understand that 5 gear luffy is not his final form 3) luffy's abilities are fundamentally different from the forces of the same Naruto and ichigo luffy does not just become stronger or faster, he can literally do anything that his imagination allows him to do 4) at the expense of chakras and haki, they are not similar, they have similar elements, but these are different forces haki cannot be increased in volume as a chakra, but the chakra cannot be made stronger in battles against strong opponents the difference is that the chakra can develop through training and haki only in battles against strong opponents training will only allow you to manage haki better
Just started this and I agree that Luffy gets no diffed by Ichigo but Naruto gets CLAPPED by luffy
And any hardcore Naruto fans who are gonna come in here yelling and screaming then go ahead and fuck off
Naruto negs multicontinental luffy.
@@somanchipranav1964….. wake up to reality😂🤓 the earth in one piece is thousands of times bigger then our earth Luffy is 3/4 as strong as whitebeard whitebeard was stated to be able to destroy the world Luffy is mid star level he’s also immune to all physical attacks Naruto can’t use taijutsu rasengan or rasenshuriken on him he can become thousands of feet tall he can see ten seconds into the future he can turn Naruto himself into rubber. And Luffy isn’t even an adult at his peak yet
@@Jesuslovesyou-i3d NOBODY in one piece is planetary, except maybe Whitebeard but even he has no proof. Therefore STATEMENTS without FACT are HERESY. Luffy caps at multi continental maybe even country level. Let us be fr here One piece is the WEAKEST verse in the big three. Name me ONE planetary feat in one piece that IS NOT a statement. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMES TO MIND. Hell even when it comes to statements the only one that I can think of is Whitebeard. ONE PIECE IS FODDER!!! COPE🤣🤣🤫🤫
Man said that naruto is large planetary and that luffy is planetary when the earth is one piece is thousands of times bigger than the naruto earth. the fist luffy beat kaido with is probably bigger than at least half of the naruto earth.
...yh sure...
Nah,we gotta use current manga Naruto,Luffy and Ichigo,Naruto might get destroyed
Absolutely agree Ichigo wins bc he's a shinigami. It feels obvious to me
The only thing we are sure is that goku is above all of them. One Piece, naruto and bleach has different world that you can't compare. it's like sayng who is stronger between messi, ronaldo, pelè, maradona... you can't compare them because they are different from each other.
You can compare them tho 😂 its called power scaling, they all have feats that can be scaled so with proper scaling we can say know who gonna win
Alr, but it’s all fun and games until you bring in Rimuru.
And that's why we didn't bring in rimuru
I'm a gigantic one piece fan but haven't really seen bleach or Naruto so luffy is the only one I can comment on. And I'm sorry he is nowhere near planetary level. That caught me so off guard because it seems like such a ridiculous thing to say. Despit luffy never showing anything close to that type of power, even the strongest people we've seen in the show are only island level. How would luffy who isn't even the strongest character be planetary? It literally makes no sense.
You're the first sane op fan I've met😂
As a ONEPIECE fan over them all and only watched a few episodes of bleach (50 eps) I’ve already been spoilt that Ichigo has like galaxy level attacks but so far I’m not so sure but if that’s a fact then I can’t deny facts Ichigo negs both and the whitebeard glaze from sengoku can’t be facts as him and Roger clash doesn’t even destroy an island so realistically the strongest a person is even ancient weapons aswell they’re mostly island level or multi island level at most and the Naruto verse could well be the same in destruction but the bleach verse yeah I hear it’s solar level
Bro you really searching for physics in animes 😂😂
Bro DB has space travel so thats kind of not fair for others, Goku being whateverversal just because he can travel to other planets and could travel to other universes.
i wonder how prime luffy will look like, he has to be like 3-10 times stronger than he was in wano.
Luffy was already toying with the worlds strongest creature weakened yes but still that a feat 99.999999999% of the verse can't do.
you give Luffy a 3-10x in power it's not one piece any more it's one punch man with pirates...
@@JackInglis-ne4qk at the time of writing i was still not at the gear 5 so it was before the gear 5 ofc if you give gear 5 but 10 times stronger it is basically one punch man.