Ask An Orthodox Priest #6 - Idol Worship, Speaking in Tongues, Pentecostals...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2024
- Fr. James answers YOUR questions on this new segment of "Ask An Orthodox Priest" - submit your questions on our AAOP posts on Instagram! @rootsoforthodoxy
Fr. James Coles is the pastor of St. Ignatius of Antioch Orthodox Church located in Mesa, Arizona.
If you'd like to support Roots of Orthodoxy AND receive early access to all new TH-cam content, please subscribe to Roots of Orthodoxy Patreon:
patreon.com/RootsofOrthodoxy?...
Your support makes this channel possible!
Follow on social media:
Instagram: @RootsofOrthodoxy
Tik-Tok: @RootsofOrthodoxy
#pentecostal #orthodox #orthodoxchristianity #orthodoxy #speakingintongues #charismatic #protestant
“You haven’t been hurt till you have been hurt by a church”
Ooooooph that’s the truth.
Nothing compares.
Church is just the threshold. If you get hurt at the door you go further in, not out.
Tell us how do they hurt ppl .
You've never been hurt by a church, you've been hurt by people in that church... that's an important distinction.
@@christisall100ouch
I am an ex catholic, became protestant and finally found the full truth in orthhodoxy. Im done with nonesense and its the best decision I've ever made.❤ I thank God everyday for opening my eyes and leading me in His wonderful, loving ways to Orthodoxy❤
I’m very sad for you. You left the fullness of the universal truth out of preference for an incomplete truth that lost it’s magisterial teaching voice nearly 1000 years ago and for the lure of Eastern aesthetics you can find in the Eastern Catholic Church.
I humbly invite you to revisit the beautiful Catholic faith you were born into
@@jordanp3470 I love my catholic brothers and sisters but I can't get on board with the Pope.
@@CynthiaWithLove if you’d rather listen to the world’s media than the edifying content all of your Popes actually produce, then I suppose that’s on you. There are difficulties Catholics have with some official theology but they certainly aren’t insuperable.
But I think you should be willing to reconsider the Catholic position
@@jordanp3470you believe in the infallibility of the pope, yet 22 years ago the dogma of limbo was abandoned after 800 years of being taught. The fullness of truth is only to be found in the orthodox church. God bless
@@jordanp3470 You are also wrong! Both of you, Cynthia and yourself should READ the Bible. No Tradition, No saints No interpretations! God revelled Himself in the Scripture and no one should disregard His WPORD for Traditions. No one!
Orthodox worship with all senses. All of God's gifts which make us human. Honestly icons are illustrated gospels , telling stories and theology
Gotta admit that I love the smell of incense. I think the icons are so captivating. They're like ancient snapshots.
@@daphnepearce9411 Windows to Heaven. ❤️☦️
If you do not kiss them etc you will end up in hell according to the church
@@synthesaurusi dont think the orthodox believe this, or even the catholics, though im not either so i cant confidently say, why do you believe this? is this some sort of written rule or statement of belief?
@@synthesaurusthat is absolutely untrue and you should be ashamed for spreading misinformation.
I witnessed two times individuals speaking a language they did not know praising God and interceding for the salvation of souls. One was a young lady in WI speaking in the African tribal language in which my dad ministered as a missionary. The other was an African in Ghana who knew no English but was praying in perfect English praising God.
Amen
You might see ,but now a days they speak a language never existed and even the audiences doesn’t know what they said specially in Africa Protestantism is a joke 😢. gospel must spread in a very respectful and with deep understanding 🙏🏾 it’s not someone just get up and teach in his/her understanding. Finished reading the Bible doesn’t mean you know it all. I hope Protestant will open their eyes and see the truth path 🙏🏾
Xenoglossia
@@1214gooner by speaking a language that you don't know fluently? You call that fake??
No you did not
I converted to Orthodoxy because I was seeking truth. The scandals in Roman Catholicism were bad and numerous but I knew that this can happen ANYWHERE. After I was Christmated, my priest was absolutely damaging not only to me but to many in our parish. Still, I am here, still Orthodox and still feel blessed that the Holy Spirit guided me to truth. My conversion had nothing to do with the behavior of the priest. Men err but not the Holy Spirit.
i believe that the catholic church was mostly just for a long time, it is only in recent times and since the french revolution that it has progressively become so fallen
but i agree that the structure of the catholic church is susceptible to this corruption and it is even more destructive when these corruptive/subversive elements control it, it is ultimately our fault for allowing it to happen, if a man breaks into your home and kills you and your family and you had the ability to stop him, but didnt out of cowardice, it is your fault
@@user-vv1do1wg1j it goes farther back than that like boiling people alive during the inquisition for not holding to the new papal innovation of the century. The Frankish spirit of barbaric feudalism has been alive and well in Rome for a long time.
I left the Catholic Church for the same reason. I went to orthodoxy also.
@@cindylemarier4102
Isn’t it the most beautiful, simple, truth. I have never had one minute of regret. Also, I am so grateful to my beautiful Roman Catholic parents. The foundation of faith that they began in me was brought to fruition in Orthodoxy. Welcome , sister.☦️
I will say when it comes to speaking in tongues, when I first cried out to God and surrendered my whole life to Jesus for the first time ever, I cried out “Lord, I am done! I surrender!” And the next words that came out of my mouth was speaking in tongues. I had no idea what speaking in tongues were but something happened after I said I surrender to you God. I was filled with the Holy Spirit and I saw God doing amazing things for the next 7 years of my life. I worked at a grocery store when I was 18 and God is healing people I work with or at the beach or everywhere else and God is speaking to me exactly about peoples life’s. And it’s all great. Glory to the Triune God.
After all this, the past year I’m desiring the Lord more and desiring to learn more and I find myself learning a lot about church history and learning the Bible more than I’ve ever had before (big thanks to brothers like Sam Shamoun and others)
I’ve come to the point now where I have a deep love for my brothers and sisters in Christ that go to the Catholic and Orthodox Church whereas before I thought differently about you guys. So glory to God for changing my heart on that. It goes deeper than that but I’m writing a lot. So I’ll save that story for another time.
I still serve and go to a Pentecostal church and God has opened doors and used me in mission trips like in Uganda, Dominican Republic, and a lot in Honduras where I’m currently serving right now as I write this message. But I definitely see my theology changing because of scripture and because of the church fathers that continued after the apostles. With that said, I believe God has called me to continue serving at the church I’m going to, to help and bring the church and the youth of the church to what God has for them as they have a big calling on their life and I’m praying that they’ll have an obedient heart to serve the Triune God.
But continue to pray for me. I’ve only scratched the surface and I’m still growing spiritually along with my relationship with God where I’m seriously learning more about the Bible how to defend but also about the fullness of the truth in Christianity.
I still believe in the power of the Holy Spirit that moves in a mighty way like thru tongues but I do agree alot of it that we see online isn’t biblically sound. But not all of it, is bad.
Be blessed🤍
how do your tongues edify the church?
1 Cor 14:6 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?
which one do you provide with tongues?
Buddy you on something i never even brought up. Since there is no interpretation i dont speak in tongues unless it's for self edification by myself and God. Rarely do you see interpretation in churches.
What i was saying was i agree that a lot of what we see is unbiblical and i cant argue that. What i was saying is that i was born into the faith thru an experience that led to an amazing journey for 7 years of seeing miracles and God doing amazing things and this past year ive learned alot about church history and see that Catholics and orthodox are amazing servants of God. And im just learning and not rushing to do something but continuing to pray and ask God for direction as i continue to grow in spirit and in truth. @@tomtemple69
@@POJOGA3 "it's for self edification" yeah, You're reading it wrong
hey bucko... get your head out of your bottom side. You're looking for a debate and all im asking is for prayers from my brothers and sisters in Faith that God may continue to guide me where He wants me to go. The whole comment in originality was just a little about my journey and how i started and where I am now learning about the historic church. I still believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to move in those giftings. Just gotta be careful of the wolves that do it for glorify themselves. Unfortunately, there's alot of wolves. What I did if i spoke in tongues, was keep quiet and speak to myself and to God. That was it. My prayers are almost always in english. You're looking for something that isnt there. Im just someone who is relearning and learning all anew. I learned a certain way for years and im trying to not insert my theology in anything but be open to what God is doing and showing me. @@tomtemple69
@@POJOGA3 how do you edify the church by your tongues? Do you give revelation or prophecy or knowledge to the church ?
As a Roman Catholic I love learning about yalls liturgy and the saints I just love them and god bless y’all brothers ✝️🇻🇦
Y'all come and see, since learning "about" barely begins to scratch the surface. See you soon!
You too man God bless his people
You should become orthodox
Former devout Roman Catholic. I love my Orthodox faith! Absolutely beautiful. ☦️
@@Dadlovesderb Catholicism is deeper honestly
God bless orthodox church and orthodox peoples
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of GOD have mercy on us sinners ☦️🙏
Having come out of years of occult studies, esoteric teachings, comparative religions, I fully understand the phycology behind rituals, sight , sounds , smells , touch to connect spiritually.
The object of our worship is what's most important. The object and intent of our sight, sounds, smells, touch is what's important.
I also am fascinated by the occult and yes these rituals are a great way to into the spirit of things :D
If you’re still doing occult practices please think deeply about what you said: “the object of our worship is what’s important.” God is the only One deserving of this worship!! Turn to Him and find life
@@WORTHYLAMB No worries, I know whom I worship.
Oh my word this is my question. I’m so blown away that it got answered.
His joy is contagious
Icons do with paint what the Bible does with words. It took me a few months of being catechumen to understand this (and even then, i dont really). The icons are more than mere images. They are the drawn Bible. They tell stories. This was one thing that I loved learning about.
Amen
Well said!☦
And also the theology of the Bible in image form. The implications... which is why saints have halos on their heads... to signify their sanctified status.
You dont worship icons you worship god in spirit and in truth 🙏🙏🙏 the priests must explain the truth to the people there is so much comfusion in the greek orthodox church
A picture's worth a thousand words. As a personal example, I never truly understood the waters of the Jordan receding away from Christ until I saw the icon depicting the event.
A few months ago, we had a substitute priest serving liturgy because Fr. James was at Mount Athos. In fact, it was Fr. John Betancourt, who is also in a lot of Roots of Orthodoxy videos. Anyway, I went up for a blessing, and he smiled and came this close to giving me the eucharist, and I had to shake my head, "No! Father, a blessing please!" He smiled and gave me a blessing.
Thank you for inspiring me to be a better Christian today.
God bless 🙏😇
I wish we had an Orthodox Church anywhere near us. We fall back on our Catholic roots and brush up as much as we can on orthodoxy. This religion is so honest and truthful and it’s purity of intention has led many to Christ who would otherwise have been confused and astray.
Very impressed by the sincere explanation.
Regarding speaking in tongues, I’ve been in a Pentecostal church for a very long time and the pastor of my Pentecostal church if somebody spoken tongues, and it was not interpreted, speaking tongues out loud, he would tell you to stop the Bible is very clear on that on the other hand, with the other thing you mentioned was I didn’t see this myself, but it was related to me by my professor at an assembly of God Bible college. He was a missionary to Africa and on his way home for furlough. He stopped off and I think London and went to church. Somebody gave a message in tongues and the language that he was a missionary to he could interpret the messagebut not by the power of the spirit so he didn’t say anything and sure enough after a minute or so. Somebody translated the message perfectly so it does still happen today in any of them. I am also investigating orthodoxy.
Pentecostal churches are filled with false teachings.
Dear friend, the Assemblies of God had a split in the past between those that didn't believe in the Trinity and those who believed. The first have created the United Pentecostal Church International, the so called Oneness Pentecostals. And the obvious question is: Since the Holy Spirit acts with tongues and prophecies in both Churches, why it didn't intervene in order to clarify the matter? Isn't the Christian Creed important or not? And if it's not important, how come that for thousands of years (from the 2nd century AD until the 19th century) God left the Church to suffer doctrinal conflicts (some of them very violent) about the nature of God and Jesus, instead of pushing forth a prophet, to tell the people that Faith doesn't matter - and that the only thing that matters is praise and prayer? Can you imagine how much trouble we would have avoided?
How come that all these men who shaped the image of Christendom, irrespective of dogma, even the founders of the Evangelical realm, no one of them had experienced the Gifts of the Charismatics, and we had to wait for a small 19th century religious separatists from Russia to remind us them again? And what about other heresies which sprung from Pentecostalism - the libertine Children of God, the (also non Trinitarian) La Luz del Mundo the leader of which is now imprisoned? What did the Holy Spirit have to say to them but remained silent?
People nowadays are so hungry for the miracle, for the extraordinary, for some kind of flashy spirituality, that they lock their logic in the closet. Actually, we subconsciously wish to get rid of that mind of us, which connects us with the our personal and collective grief. Yes, there are miraculous phenomena in the Pentecostal Churches, but if you examine them more closely, they are just that: phenomena.
The United Pentecostals that’s the one that denomination you’re referring to or heretics even the assemblies of God would say the same thing that’s why there was a split over the Trinity
I've heard of stories of Eastern Europeans visiting a Pentecostal Church. People were speaking in tongues and people were getting all excited about it.
But the only ones who understood what was being said were the Eastern Europeans and they ran out of the Church because the people speaking were saying blasphemous things about God in their language.
Miracles are not what determine what's True. Evil things can conjure up miracles.
@@anothercat1300 That throws away the argument tongues are fake if they aren't in a human language. Until we learn Biblical truths we should not be looking for miracles or Spiritual manifestations it is the surest Portal to being infested by unclean spirits. It is better to remain free from tongues than to be filled with demons.
Thank you Father James. I really enjoyed listening to the these Q & A's. I am subscribed to several Orthodox channels and this one sort of just appeared. I will definitely be going back and start with #1. I appreciate your simplistic responses.
False religion.
Mat 23:9 KJV And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Thank you for your G-dly wisdom, the great questions, and the insightful answers, Fr. James. I was born and raised Evangelical (various denominations, including Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Baptist, Southern Baptist, and Non-Denominational, and briefly attended the Catholic Church as well). For the last year and a half, I have felt a calling to learn more about Messianic Judaism (as Yeshua was born the Son of G-d, the son of man, and a Jew as the Jewish Messiah) and have been blessed by it in many ways. I've also started to learn more about Eastern Orthodoxy over the past 2 months, and my walk has only deepened with it, which I am most grateful for.
Regarding speaking in tongues, I have watched sermons from Christian pastors like David Diga Hernandez and Derek Prince (who passed away in 2003) and have found much wisdom in their teachings. I mention them because they are two pastors who discuss speaking in tongues and occasionally pray in tongues. In my Christian upbringing, speaking and praying in tongues was not practiced or addressed, and if the topic was brought up, it 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 "If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God." was mentioned.
From sermons where one or multiple people spoke or prayed in tongues, I felt it to be distracting and unsettling, as no one ever interpreted what was being said. It seemed typical for the nonverbals to become just as distracting and unsettling. It started with unintelligible speech and progressed to awkward actions that were just as unintelligible (do they need help or a doctor?).
As I continue on my walk in Yeshua, and read His Word, I wonder if speaking in tongues can include speaking in the same language as others, but where those hearing the words don't understand what the content? Perhaps in a situation where someone is new to the faith and what is taught or prayed out loud doesn't make sense because of the content? Perhaps a bad analogy, but if you don't understand physics and someone is speaking to you at a level that you can't comprehend?
Thank you for any and all insights, Numbers 6:24-26, and Shalom Shalom. 🙏☦✝✡❤
I once read a story of a woman and her husband who were attending a pentecostal service where people around them were speaking in tongues. The woman happened to be educated/fluent in a dead language and suddenly realized, a woman next to her (one of the congregants who was speaking in “tongues”) was actually speaking in this dead language, and was actually blaspheming God. She immediately told her husband they needed to leave and never went back. I’ll never forget that story.
Yes I absolutely agree. It was so hard for me when I went to one, bc you never know what Spirit comes into ppl when they open themselves up to that. Any spirit can have the authority to come through. I think this concept of the church authority in Christ provided Authority. Aka safety that I couldn't mind in any other place ...at least that was my experience ❤
The blasphemer didn't need an interpreter in the Spirit. An academic was enough!
Oh yeah, this is the discussion space I was looking for! Thank you for making this video❤
Very holy answer in a very elequent way💒 God bless you.
I visited a messanic Jewish church and when the Rabbi brought out the Torah, everyone kissed it.
hum....is that clean
The word of God is sweet.
Messianic Judaism is relatively new. Started in the 1960’s
Thank you father for such wonderful words of wisdom!
Although I agree with much of what Fr. James says, as someone who was a practicing Protestant Christian for almost 30 years and then married into the Orthodox church and still worship in an Orthodox church with my family, I would strongly urge any Protestant Christian contemplating conversion to Orthodoxy to evaluate their choice cautiously.
No church is without fault, and there are many beautiful things about Orthodoxy - certain tenants of faith such as the working out of salvation (as opposed to just saying "I'm saved" and then going on living your life in sin and hostility towards your fellow man), or the spiritual inhabiting of the Eucharist, are all beautiful.
However, icons of figures other than Christ (namely saints) are routinely adored and venerated through processions, kisses, prayers, etc. Fasts, feasts, hymns, and prayers are all dedicated to various saints, which is really the form of idolatry that one should be examining closely when considering entering Orthodoxy, not icons or figures of Christ.
The Orthodox church also loves vain repetitions - liturgical services, rites, rituals, prayers, and actions that are repetitive and recitative, and too much emphasis is put on them as a means of connecting with God.
If repetitive, liturgical worship is your thing and you're open to venerating and praying through saints, than Orthodoxy may be for you. There's a myriad of other issues I have with the Orthodox church, even after years of conversing with priests and reading numerous tests. I love the community, the priests, and the general sense of devotion but so much of the dogma concerns me.
Oh and also, be prepared to have to be re-baptized because the Orthodox church will not recognize your Protestant baptism as authentic (as it does not fall within "Apostolic succession).
I'm not saying to avoid Orthodoxy wholly, but just approach it with scrutiny and caution.
However, if there were no Protestant churches and you had to choose between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, 100% I would suggest Orthodoxy.
They would have you believe that due to the leadership of their counsels, the Orthodox church is systematically and dogmatically perfect, but you'd be a fool to believe that for a second.
I've been conflicted about this. I can't seem to find a church. I agree with so much of orthodoxy but definitely think there is some doctrinal development that isn't admitted. I'm going to do a catechism so I can try and get a good understanding of it. I can't do Protestantism anymore and I know I won't be Catholic. I honestly at this point Don't feel a desire to bow to icons or do much of the physical things, though i do beleive in veneration. Just not with all the showiness.
@@ZBielski Catechism is a great start. I completed catechism and it was a great window into the heart of orthodoxy. Had I not had my blinders on from wanting to get married to an Orthodox woman, and needing to become Orthodox in order to do so, I would have caught several red flags that I suppressed/ignored.
No institution will be perfect, and any institution that doesn't admit that is one you should run from at full speed.
I pray that you find a Church that nourishes you and enriches your relationship with Christ.
And yes...stay away from Catholicism. 😉
I agree with most of what you wrote. But the “vain repetition” aren’t vain if it helps you meditate on God. But if you can’t connect with God without it it’s a problem.
How do you worship in an Orthodox church and then claim that we worship idols? The implication is that _you_ also worship idols, but of course you don't, because neither do we. The point of the hymns and prayers dedicated to or otherwise directed towards various saints are 1) asking for them to intercede for us (even as we pray for ourselves), and 2) keep them in remembrance-- which serves the purpose of not only maintaining our awareness of the Church through time and space, but also the purpose of providing to the faithful examples of righteous living in God. The point of the feasts and fasts likewise dedicated is much the same.
I feel as if a lot of the "idol worship" accusations lobbed at Orthodox Christians don't have a full grasp of the severity of such a charge.
That aside: the means of receiving non-Orthodox Christians varies depending on jurisdiction. It's common practice to only chrismate non-Orthodox Christians baptized with the Trinitarian formula by a communion that believes in the doctrine of the Trinity (i.e. a baptized Methodist would only need to be chrismated, but a Mormon would need to be baptized as well).
a lot of this hits home lol ........ Thank you for this video!
Thank you for watching, God bless!
I love my Christian Coptic Orthodox Church ❤
I’m not orthodox.I’m a believer of the true God father son and Holy Spirit just like they believe . I came from a Pentecostal church and had a problem from the tongues speaking I agree totally with this man ,how they speak in tongues today is not like in Pentecost.I didn’t disagree with any thing he said he is wise and kind .
When you start expanding to interviewing priests outside of the southwest, you need to come to Kearney, Nebraska and interview Fr. Christopher Morris. You can combine it with a video about the meaning of the priesthood and info on Fr. Nicola Yanney of blessed memory.
Don't disagree that tongues can be abused and that at Pentecost it was in various human languages so the people all over the Empire could understand.
However Paul talked about tongues of men and Angels. If we speak a spiritual language to give worship to God or commune in the Spirit to compensate for our limitations that brings us peace and set free from this world for a while, to me its like icons in that it connects us with the eternal. Not a bad thing.
I have seen words spoken and interpreted and seen lives changed for the better.
Cornelius in his household spoke in tongues. I highly doubt there wasn’t a common language in the house hold. Also, the tongues on Pentecost is different than the tongues in 1 Cor.
I converted from Romain catholic to Orthodoxy back in 2009 and my reason was because when I went with my girl friend who is now my wife, I felt this real feeling inside I was in the right place, the ceremony felt original and not alter. For example the one that touch me the most was the Saturday night mass for Eastern, when the lights went out in the church and the light comes out of the alter and slowly the church is lite up from everyone holding their candles, you can feel this energy of happiness, almost if you are witnessing his resurrection. If you are Romain catholic or any other catholic besides Orthodox, go and witness mass during Easter and you will be touched.
I AM A LAPSED CATHOLIC CATHOLICISM IS THE ONLY ONE TRUE CHURCH PROTESTANTISM IS JUST THAT A PROTEST ," UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH"
My ex-wife is a pentecostal christian. I’m Jewish. I didn’t mind sometimes following her to church since my dad is British and I’m not religious. One thing that scared me was the tongues. A loud cacophony of gibberish. I believe icons are a tradition where the image told a story or reminded a Christian about an important point.
Agree, speaking in tongues should be avoided, it’s gibberish and comes from the enemy. God bless. ✝️🙏🏻
They heard them spoke in their own language The WONDERFUL WORKS of GOD, if we believe the bible we have to believe in tongues and languages, sometimes of intense worship tongues just flow beautifully and uncontrollably and sometimes after that you get the interpretation in English, I believe in the beginning BABEL was the confusion of languages and the scattering of the nations , but in Pentecost there was a regathering of nations in Jerusalem and men spake in other tongues the wonderful work of God , what God Can understand, Chinese, Spanish, African, HiNdi, or Urdu or Aramaic or Portuguese, only Almighty GOD ,
@@angelwings3128 OK, I'm not a Pentacostal and don't care for those type of churches, but you should be careful about saying stuff like this. See Matthew 12.
@@Procopius464 - speaking in tongues was originally in reference to the Apostles who took the word of Jesus Christ to the nations. They spoke in Hebrew (their known language) and the recipient (non Hebrew speaking) could understand them. God acted as the interpreter. This is what speaking in tongues was about. Respectfully, I stand by my views on my earlier comment.
Well said my friend.
To the person asking about iconography:
(Fr gave the best answer by far.)
An extra thing that helped was Looking up the history and story of the Dura-Europos house church.
It sealed the deal for me on that question.
It sealed the deal as in you now accept veneration?
I googled the church and see the images but how does this solidify icon VENERATION for you?
I’m a Lutheran and not against images but veneration is something that I am still wrestling with as I am an orthodox inquirer.
Do we know the Dura-Europos church practiced icon veneration. I find that hard to believe we have substantial evidence for that..
Anyways, Thank you for your comment and I look forward to a response. :)
@@bjsb6514 I was baptized orthodox 6 months ago, so yes. There are many angles of argumentation that go beyond the scope of what could be talked about in this way.
That is the EARLIEST known house church. It was once a synagogue turned into a Christian church. The implications of that are immense.
@@bjsb6514 Veneration itself is easy to assume by the objects very existence.
@@bjsb6514 All Protestants participate in veneration of the cross, by having a cross anywhere. Having the object that points to a reality is an inadvertent, vicarious veneration.
@@bjsb6514 the icon is in many ways THE reason I left calvanism for Holy Orthodoxy. Which is cringe to Protestants, but if you give it time it will click.
im glad lord jesus came for us and teached us and saved us i like the pictures of history of the true god.
Everyone has icons in their life, images that remind them of what they love. Surround yourself with what’s good
You are correct. Many people have pictures of their loved ones that are still here or have passed on. Why wouldn’t we revere the apostles for one example. Their names are gong to be written on the foundations of the new Jerusalem. Rev 21:14
We don't venerate those pictures, stop this false association. Also, none of the icons in use today are accurate paintings of the apostles or Jesus, so you are actually painting someone else
But not everyone worships them, kisses them nor do they touch the floor twice in church before crossing themselves. This is idolatry.
@@markiemark8717 I believe touching the floor before signing is simply a symbolic reminder that our origin is from the dust of the earth. It is humbling.
@markiemark8717 The Bible says great with a holy kiss right 🤷🏾♀️
Yes, actually there are testimonies about people speaking in another human language and realizing that they are proclaiming the Gospel for example. Those things exist and if those things are sufficient to say that the tongues of today can be the tongues of the Apostles and you believe me that those things are happening, then it is true that the tongues spoken in charismatic Churches can be real tongues.
(I have never spoken in tongues. It is an appropriate observation that some people are babbling. But that doesn't mean everyone is.)
I’ve heard similar testimonies of people praying in tongues and unknowingly speaking the gospel to someone near them they didn’t understand or realize could hear them.
There is to much room in allowing a delusional demonic spirit to run the show.
This is why Apostle Paul says it’s best to pray with understanding.
Speaking of tongues was a sign for unbelievers.
There is also stronger evidence, that one spoke in his own language and everyone heard it in there own tongue.
Well said
As an Orthodox Christian myself. I have noticed that those who don't like Ikons haven't stopped to think about that God himself made Ikons of himself when he made us in his image. Ikon only means Image, God, also commanded Ikons to be made Exodus, when the ark of the covenant was made, the golden cherubim on the ark are Ikons as well as the ark itself.
This is why almost invariably iconoclasm leads or trends towards gnosticism and hatred of matter. Its worth noting calvinism and the death of the image of God in man was was heavily used as justification for slavery and racism in the colonial era.
The trouble appears in the fact that it was made essential for one’s salvation to venerate ikons.
@@synthesaurusIt is to venerate the image of God in people. That is one way to do so.
@@synthesaurus The second commandment on which all the law and the prophets hang states that you should love your neighbour as yourself. The reason why this was stated is because every single human on this earth was made in Christ's image, and is therefore an icon of the lord. The question you should be asking yourself is why you believe that it shouldn't be necessary to surround yourself with images of our lord and saviour, the saints who directly experienced his grace and the tales from within his holy books in order to heal the soul enough that it can experience salvation, especially in the modern era when we're surrounded by so much godlessness.
@@benkai343434 one of the reasons I am wary of ikons is my experience with many orthodox who use them a some lucky charms and consider them indispensable for salvation. What about the christians who had lived and often were martyred before the Iconodulism became a doctrine?
I’m glad I found this. I’ve been mulling this over quite a bit lately.
I understand this now as somebody who was originally opposed to this I began to wonder , well wouldn’t that apply to the passion of the Christ movie ? That was Jesus depicted and I never once batted an eye about that but marveled at how Jesus’s would do such a loving caring act for us and I cried. I am learning about orthodox my biggest challenge is I was so used to knowing God was the father , and Christ and the Father both had the Holy Spirit . Can you help me understand orthodox way of understanding this ? Thank you and God bless
The Holy Trinity is God. We have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; three divine Persons of one Godly Essence.
The Father is the Source of the Holy Trinity as the Son is only begotten by Him in eternity and the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him. They are not created but eternally with the Father and co-equal.
The Word/Logos of God who is God became man in the incarnation though still being God. Christ is both God and man fully in one divine Person. These are two natures brought together in Himself, they cannot be mingled nor separated. Christ's two natures are why He is the only Mediator.
I spent some time with Pentacostals and went to their services several times. I was looking for truth and was invited to join them... From what i saw is that people would work themselves up and the "tongues" was more like mumbling. And there was a high pressure to do it. Like if you didn't speak in tongues, there was something wrong. I was told that after baptism, if I didnt speak in tongues immediately, I was not truely saved, and thus destined for hell.
Either my infant baptism (which they told me was invalid) took or the Holy Spirit is avoiding me like the plague. I ended up returning to my original Church and decided to go through Confirmation. Happy here.
I'm pentecostal and never had that experience. Repentance is crucial as that is explained in book of Acts. Tongues is real my G.
@@BadgerWolf-19 So you are saying I am unrepentant? interesting that you can see into my heart.
@@alliposh8097 nah bruv...I'm saying you can't be unrepentant at birth. Natural cognizance happens around 6 years old. I'm sure you live a daily life of getting closer to God.
@@alliposh8097
How did you come to such a conclusion from the posters response?
I too am Pentecostal and cannot share your experience. I am not saying it didn’t happen to you. It’s a shame that it did.
I have spoken in tongues which was an intimate moment with Christ. I have also witnessed the power of tongues being spoke to the congregation and interpreted.
In regards to infant baptism, it’s our churches philosophy that baptism is for the remission of sins which is something an infant cannot express. We do what is called child dedication. When the child is old enough and can display an understanding of what the baptism serves, we believe they are ready for baptism. There is no minimum age for this. For those who were baptized as infants, we offer an opportunity for a 2nd baptism.
Just take a look at scripture, there were those who were baptized by both John which was for purification and Jesus which was declaration of his divinity. Those who were baptized by John were called for a 2nd baptism.
Now where I disagree with some Pentecostals is one must speak in tongues to enter the kingdom of heaven. There is nothing written in scripture that supports this.
@@metorphoric I came to this conclusion because I implied in my post I went through baptism again becaise they told me my baptism was invalid and my inheritance of Heaven was on the line. I spoke no tongues, I had no desire to, and I had been told if you do not speak in tongues, you are not truly saved. The reply said you have to be repentant, so SIMPLY I took that to mean I was not repentant when I submitted to being baptized as an adult. As an adult who already had had amazing experiences with God and had spent their whole life as a believer.
And I am very sure you DO believe you are speaking in tongues. I am not saying in my comment you think you are pulling the wool over my eyes. The people I witnessed from the half a dozen times attending their services, it was people who were working themselves up into a fervor, babbling, not true languages. And if salvation is on the line? To someone totally and fully indoctrinated to their faith, it probably looks and feels genuine. Jesus warned us of false prophets. I think sometimes we do have to look at things with criticism.
Person A interrupts the preacher and starts shouting nonsensical language "in the moment." Person B, from across the aisle shouts interpretation of what they are saying "in the moment." Usually these two people are fluent in English and English only. How do you verify? You could say anything you wanted. So if this language is anything at all and can truly be identified after the point, how do we know the people speaking are genuine. Oh I know, you have faith. I have not seen any evidence other than antecedal "oh I totally once spoke ancient Aramaic".
In Acts 2:1-13 it was described a sound came with the holy spirit like a great wind, that presumably everyone could hear. They started speaking actual languages, and had been out among other people who were not apart of their worship. it was THESE people who heard them and recognize their native tongues. These unaffiliated people verified to the power of the holy spirit. This is not what I witnessed and I am standing by that.
To me, as someone who was curious, who once even had an open mind to converting, it looked and felt cult like. And then when I realized the people had no friends or family outside of their congregations, (because if you weren't saved, it was a bad influence or something) I did decide it was not for me. That and since they believed the holy spirit couldn't have come upon me until I preformed... well, I'll be on my way. No, they didn't use rhe word "perform" but if I would have forced it, it would have been.
So no, I do not believe Pentcostal (the religion) speaking in tongues is the same thing as the events of the Pentecost in the Bible.
I converted to Orthodoxy from a Charismatic background. Abouna James is the first priest I’ve heard not talk about Pentecostals like they're deranged satan-worshipers. Thank you Abouna for being gracious!
I'm a new Christian, and honestly the speaking in tongues thay we see in these TH-cam videos really put me off Christianity. I'm a student of psychology, and to me, when I see the speaking in tongues, it looks like a hyped up crowd falling into mass hysteria and peer pressure. I've never experienced it for myself though- what's your opinions/ experiences on it?
@@captainciz from what I grew up doing, revival services and all that kind of stuff, it usually starts with the minister/evangelist/pastor getting a people hyped with a message. More and more people start speaking in "tongues" and it snowballs into a mass frenzy of laughing, crying, laying on the floor, dancing, running laps around the sanctuary, ect. It's definitely emotionally manipulative, and peer-pressure heavy. They call it FOMO nowadays (fear of missing out). Oh, if so and so sitting next to me is feeling the Holy Spirit move, I should too! I was pulled into it several times as a teen. That being said, there are people in the charismatic church that genuinely want to feel a move of God. Unfortunately, that's not the way to go about it.
@@GibbstronicAnd once they’ve put you through this emotional experience they’ll ask for your offerings when you’re psychologically vulnerable.
Is abouna aramaic for father?
@@daphnepearce9411 Arabic for Father. It's what Antiochian Orthodox call their priests. Like Greeks saying Papa or Russians saying Batyushka.
I had no idea this Father James was from St Ignatius, God Bless you Father!
These are very helpful videos.
I found out that none of the monks on Mount Athos speak in tongues and that sealed the deal for me.
Well they speak in true tongues. Ss. Porphyrios and Paisios could understand and communicate in languages that they couldn't speak they would speak greek and a frenchman would hear french and his french was heard as greek by the saint. This is the true power of the Holy Spirit. Not incoherant gibberish that isnt actual language and rolling on the floor.
That's the true meaning of tongues its the breakdown of the language barriers that were introduced after babel.
I remember a story about years ago a young woman went to Europe with a "Medfly" t-shirt. She was asked by a young Brit if she was "for it, or against it?"
I remember a story about years ago a young woman went to Europe with a "Medfly" t-shirt. She was asked by a young Brit if she was "for it, or against it?"
I remember a story about years ago a young woman went to Europe with a "Medfly" t-shirt. She was asked by a young Brit if she was "for it, or against it?"
I remember a story about years ago a young woman went to Europe with a "Medfly" t-shirt. She was asked by a young Brit if she was "for it, or against it?"
“Having an image is a sin!”
But also,
“I have a message from God. He said, ‘Whargarbleblblblblblblblblblbl”
?
😂😂 Yup.
@@shobudski6776?
🤔 I GOT IT! 🤣😂🤣
This priest is too gracious, they are delusional, deranged even.
I find icons around would serve as reminders to spend time with God
Interesting discussion. Watching from the Philippines.
6:34 blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
If you speak of this as a word against the Sacred Icons; The Icons themselves, as the priest said, are not the Lord; They are pointing to the Lord Incarnate.
A particular kind of faith is necessary for those who do not behold the Lord in the flesh as did Thomas and the other direct disciples of the Lord.
@@nicodemuseam what you are saying is: "I'm not looking at an icon, I look through the icon to Jesus." I'm not buying it. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. *People look at the outward appearance*, but the Lord looks at the heart.
how can words on a page be sacred, yet the depiction of those words in a painting isn’t?
@@linusloth4145
And your heart is saying what, exactly? Are you an Iconoclast? Do you declare the Holy Icons to be Idols? If so, Anathema!
@@nicodemuseam You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.
On paper its all good. Anything can be defended and reasoned. The problem is over time the dipictions starts to get variations. And each variation get a specific name (eg:infant jesus) and special prayers. Soon powers ascribed to specific icon and specific blessings from each icon. And thus icon becomes an idol in people's hearts, i see people praying only to specific icon of jesus or saints, like its their personal god(mostly among catholics) or to a bishop/mary/other saints who has passed on, more than they pray to Christ(very common among ppl orthodox church) . Church has official positions but people's hearts are encouraged into idolatry with icons, saints and mediatory prayers through saints. This is what is actually happening. Leadership of the church goes along with it and actively encourages it.
Very well said
이는 잠재적인 문제입니다. 우리는 광야에서 길러진 뱀을 기억합니다. 이는 아주 좋은 표시이자
상징입니다. 그러나 히스기야는
나중에 사람들이 그것을 다르게 보게 되었기 때문에 그것을 파괴해야
했습니다.
Sounds like what an Atheist would say about the inerrancy of the Scripture.
@@dankmartin6510 yes and so an atheist remains athiest. A christian has come to experiance the life through the word, so that objection doesn't matter to him. Orthodox ppl experiance the freedom of worshipping God through mediation of their little gods, so they would remain that way untill Holy Spirit quickens them to understand in spirit that Christ incarnated, died and rose again just so that all men, with no discrimination to the degree of their sinfulness, can now come near to God through Christ. 1 mediator between Man and God.
@@appumathew You doing nothing but reviling the Orthodox with an unbridled tongue - the Orthodox do not worship 'little gods' and an assertion to the contrary is similar to claiming Jesus was never God.
This is something I had an issue with, though I've kissed my bible at times while reading it. Also coming from a protestant church, they also do a lot of "odd" things like writing sins on paper to be destroyed or writing the names of children in care of the church on a board to pray for them. It's all done for Christ in worship of Him, so this is a way of worship to Him and honor of the saints which is the Church; And the Lord is the Church.
Father, I’m Ukrainian catholic and RCC (long story) and I was raised Protestant. I’ve been through the whole evangelical route, hated it was Anglican for a while and they are apostate. Then I visited a trad Latin chant Catholic Church . I thought it was beautiful. I joined and sang in the choir for five years. Then I found out that my dad’s Greek Catholic membership transferred to his kids. Oh well. I feel so betrayed by Catholicism and I read Christian history constantly so I’m going to go to the Russian orthodox which chants I. Church Slavonic. The idea of idols I think is that most people couldn’t read from day one. And the stained glass windows depicted Bible stories just as the icons do in the orthodox. I think that’s important to remember. Most people didn’t own bibles until the Protestant reformation. So that’s what I tell people.
being pentecostal I have been in services where there was tounges spoken by our Pastors wife and it was in Mandarin and she is white as they come. I also was in a conference where another man prophesied in French. Its a real thing...
I see what your saying, but what benefit is it to speak Manderin or French to people who speak english. Not saying it's not real, but biblically speaking everyone heard it in their own language (Acts 2). And plenty of white people speak both of those languages so unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they didn't know those languages it wouldn't be enough to convince me that it was real. The only way I would know it was the gift of tongues biblically speaking is if I was next to someone whose native language was manderin or French and they heard the message in their native language and I heard it in English. But that being said it may be the gift of tongues not gonna say that it wasn't.
@@ericyoung2352 I have heard tounged and interpretation in services. And the people I know didn't speak those languages. I'm not here to convince you as I have been convinced myself. That's you who continue to deny the power of God. I have seen people receive the holy ghost. And I saw my pastor stop saints from speaking a loud in tounges to restore order because there was no interpretation. 1 cor 14:2. I received the holy ghost at 17 and spoke in tounges. Still a engineer still a normal person and not addicted or suicidal like I was at 17.
@BadgerWolf-19 no, no, no. Sorry if my comment wasn't clear. Never denied the power of the Holy Ghost. And I believe you friend! Lol it probably would of been better for me not to comment originally and just give it a like. Thanks for responding though.
Every pentecostal tells these fraudulent falsehoods. Imagine being so brainwashed that you willingly bear false testimony to back up your false faith.
@@kerenvandyk3154 if you are ever around people who are speaking in tongues try shouting the N word, and then tell them it was the holy spirit. Just make sure to have a clear path to the exit
Один православный священник обьяснил гораздо проще разницу между иконами и идолами. Он просто задал вопрос, любите ли вы фотографии своих родственников которые уже не с вами, а упокоились или вы их просто бросаете в мусор? Вы цените и любите образ ушедшего близкого человека, даже целуете его и смотрите на него с благоговением. Также точно обьясняется иконопочитание, это любовь и благоговение перед святыми образами.
я сам православный, все же, фотографиям родителей некланяются, и нецелуют их когда заходят в комнату. Тем более не молятся стоя перед фотографией.
@@uldisarbidans694 вы все понимаете буквально. Кстати есть люди и их много, которые прикладываются к фотографиям и относятся к ним с любовью. Это достаточно доходчивый ответ, только слова передёргивать не надо, тем более если вы православный.
Не прикладываются и не поклоняются пишется отдельно от не
@@uldisarbidans694ваши родители прославлены в лике Святых, чтобы им молиться? Если нет, то молиться надо не им, а за них.
А Вы представьте такую картину: Вы уехали надолго, а ваша жена поставила на тумбочку ваш портрет и целует его перед сном. А вы узнав об этом обвините ее в измене? Или может наоборот оцените это как проявление любви к вам?
Я слышал, что непочитание икон навлекает анафему.
@@synthesaurus даже есть наглядный исторический пример. Посмотрите фильм Стояние Зои.
Speaking in tongues in the book of Acts:2 was speaking in various known languages, a Holy Spirit gift to share the Wonderful News about Jesus the Christ and the Gift He had paid for, Ending the Satanic power that had permanently separated The Heavenly Father and the Mercy Seat from His human children. It is not the new Tower of Babel, and dancing with snakes! The Holy Scriptures are vital to understanding. After reading several versions of this Sacred book, I love the new the "new" 2008, Messianic Jewish Family Bible, Tree of Life version. It reminds us of the core values we have abandoned such as Family values, Obeying the Ten Commandments, like remember the Shabbat and Keeping it Holy. I was raised Christian (sort of) and I am still a growing follower of my Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus the Messiah. I am enjoying the programs of Roots of Orthodoxy. Thank you!
The doctrines in tongues is in 1 Corinthians not Acts.
wery good speach actually got very much more insight on god walking on earth changing waters this is how it shoud be talkt to people who have lived watching movies and stories it gets to you head easilly
Think about if you see someone kissing a picture of a loved one. You instinctively know that they are showing their love for the person in the photo not showing love to the physical picture itself.
so true! because back then they didn't have cameras :)
why do you need a picture to show love to God though? I could understand a picture of a loved one since that loved one is not with you, but God is always with us
@kellyblandon5480, we don't have icons of God...
There is a verse that says Jesus is the express IMAGE of God. God gave image to himself. Pictures of Jesus just bring us closer to him.
You look at the art by Michelangelo but you haven’t seen him but you know it’s his work. When I see Icons it leads me to The Artist God Himself, His Masterpieces to bring us closer to Him, especially with our Lord Jesus Christ and Mother Mary and all Saints.
I mean you can say that about a tree in a field. You know the tree isn’t God but you can recognize his work. That’s really all you need.
Amin
For veneration of icons and worship of Jesus one must delve in history of iconoclasm and the restoration of icons which to this day, is commemorated on the Sunday of Orthodoxy.
The God of Abraham NEVER indicated that He wants to be worshipped through carved (graven or engraved) icons in sacred scripture. He expressly forbid it by the second commandment.
When Solomon finished the temple, did he start putting up images of OT saints? No. Here is what he said:
“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!” 1 Kings 8:27. God is not literally dwelling in the temple. He allowed the temple to be built out of the mercy of His heart, so His people can pray toward it and know He hears them. The veil splitting after Christ’s death demonstrates that we dont need the temple thanks to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Heb 6:19). Icons are a RUBBISH compared to this promise of Holy God!!
@@thesheep6248
Boy you're using a graven image of an idol as your pfp. Pagan, are you?
@@kristaps5296 but hes not bowing his head to it. what a dumb false equivalence
@@asto5767
So, karate practitioners worship each other before they fight?
@@thesheep6248 i think one needs to step forward to the new testament - cause abraham never saw his god as a person here on earth -- and when jesus was here as a person people worshiped him - people kissed him - hugged him- kissed his feet - - YES !
now when you see jesus on an icon - you see god as a person - it is a recorded history not in book only but in picture - and that very presence of jesus - as that very icon also testifies is the seperating factor between the old testament and the new testament - abraham and his people never saw god - in person nor his face!!! - abraham and his people are no longer the chosen people - thats the old testament!! - -- the nations are wellcome in christianity by new testament something once forbidden - circumsicion is no longer a must - something that was a must!! -- new testament has new perpective totally for those that still practice jewish law!!--
icons are a testimony - a huge testimony - that christ was here as a person - that is why in every church the central icon is always CHRIST ! NO OTHER GOD BUT CHRIST ! CHRIST THAT CAME AS A PERSON - AS HUMAN ! everything is dedicated to him!! and this icon testifies that as well -- so people that vow on Christ you think they do something wrong ?? They do worship god !- - in front of an icon that testifies his precence on earth as a human being - as well as god ! in front of a painted testimony - memory - that yes those people did see him ! he did come ! --
and that is not forbidden !
what god said you worsip me and no other god -- !! Christ very well!! that is not forbidden to have a painted testimony next to the bible ! Other gods are forbidden - then one is no longer christian -- but a christian reads and counts mostly new testament - where god IS a living person as well as god! -- old testament ONLY is for those that dont believe in Christ !!!- !!!!! So the old testament is not above the new testament but beyond !
If someone was to spitt on a picture of christ then every christian would certainly see that as an act of blasphemy. They would not say; "oh, its just wood and paint who cares"
The strange thing is if you do the opposite, and you instead show reverence and honor, then that too is blasphemy for some reason...🧐🧐🧐
Jesus carpentered, and our God gave us eyes and ears and touch to see, hear, and create through touch
Regarding speaking tonges - why Paul prayed in tonges when he was alone?
1Cor 14:18-19: "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."
It shows that he prayed on tonges privately.
Why then if he didnt speak to forigners to be understood?
An idol is anything worshipped as "god" that not God; and it doesn't have to be an image.
The tongues response is misinformed scripturally. Paul clearly refers to different forms of tongues, tongues as a sign for unbelievers (known languages), tongues for intercession (we don’t know what we ought to pray as we should), corporate tongues (unknown angelic languages needing interpretation, not translation, interpretation), and praying in a tongues (edification of your spirit man)
His response reveals he thinks it’s only known languages which is 1/4 of the tongues mentioned in the Bible
Exactly 👍🏾
1 Corinthians 11:4
“Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.”
Great question about Exodus 20. To respond is pretty simple: the ark of the covenant ordered to be built was made with to graven images of two cheruv (angels) above the ark containing the 10 commandments. Strictly speaking Moshe was in infraction of the commandment not to do graven images... If Moshe did it, it means that the commandment pertains to idols not to be made not to Things of the Holy One permitted to help us remember or convey from the Things from the Heavens. But strictly speaking nothing must be done in purity to let our mind be in only the Pure Faith...
The one thing about the tongues thing I’d consider is the version of “tongues” taught by Paul is clearly not the same as the “tongues” spoken of in acts. Hence his point of “making sure someone has a translation,” scripture in regards to prophecy over tongues.
That said in my experience, sometimes it’s genuine, sometimes it’s emotionally charged “feel good.” Either way, I do have a quarrel with Protestants doing it on the mic like they often do.
As a “prayer language,” I think it makes more sense oftentimes anyhow, but I digress. Point is I think the Bible makes a case for two types of tongues.
Either way, I appreciate how you spoke on the subject. I’ve been learning to appreciate orthodoxy for what it is, and I watched this in curiosity to how stuff like this is viewed, and it’s much appreciated.
Especially due to seeing a lot of “elitism” coming from catholic and orthodox pages on instagram.
Any ways, I’m rambling, but point is I appreciate your take on this issue.
If what you say is true, then we should be able to see a continuation of tongues, from the Holy Apostles to this very day.
The reality is there is no such evidence after the Apostles.
Until the time American evangelicals spawned into existence around two centuries ago.
I also notice that the evangelicals come along with questionable doctrine.
I’m interested to see what others have to say.
@@gritsteel3225 We still do and if we don't then no one on earth is saved since christ says this sign will follow them that believe. The problem is your unbelief not God cos he's willing to give all who ask for the baptisim of the spirit
@@joellim2
Unfortunately this is heaved up in its understanding.
There was a Holy man who lived in the mountains. A foreigner heard of him and sorted him out with an interpreter at hand.
While the three sat, the Holyman asked the interpreter to leave, understanding that the foreigner, hesitant to open up with the interpreter present.
After a few hours, the Holyman and his visitor came out.
The interpreter asked the Holyman, how did you communicate?
The Holyman, responding, I spoke in my tongue and she heard it in hers, she spoke in her tongue and I heard it in mine.
I hope you understand.
조셒: 우리는 구원의 날에 성령 세례를 받습니다. 그는 당신에게 죄를 깨닫게 하십니다. 그는 당신은
감지럽히지도 않고, 당신 안으로 기어들어가지도 않고, 발작을
일으키지도 않습니다.
What are the groanings of the Spirit Paul talks about?
That’s what he meant when he said “prayer language”. It’s self edifying prayer. That’s not a spiritual gift really as every Christian should experience this.
I’m a Catholic & I just loved this! I don’t plan on leaving but I just loved his answers ❤
We cannot merely claim it is less of a gift. This sounds like what Prot pastors say to defend the disunified garbage of "On the non-essentials grace." The Church must have a definitive answer for it. One if for own edification and one is for those around.
I think Orthodox churches need to keep reemphasizing and focus on Jesus and Bible as sometimes the believers tend to gravitate towards saints and feast of saints. Then there are some politics too between bishops, priests and laymen etc. So in order to preserve the faith in Jesus especially for the younger generation above things should be addressed otherwise they will get demotivated. But all said there is no comparison to the beauty of Orthodox worship🙂🙏🏽.
Jesus Christ and the Bible are always the primary focus, the Saints are the support act (so to speak). God bless. ✝️
We don’t worship saints, but they play a big role in Christianity.
Praying in tongues is simply groaning in the spirit. It’s a wonderful tool to use when praying alone
No, that sounds like prelest
How do you know you're not cursing God?
@@LadyMaria when you curse God you grieve His spirit. When you pray in Spirit and Truth you welcome His spirit. When you grieve His spirit His presence departs from you. When you glorify Him His presence is felt. When we draw near to Him he draws near to us.
@@TheRealRealOK You have nothing to lose from crying out in prayer.
@@threeworld However, none of that has to do with the Pentecostal idea of "tongues". God's uncreated grace isn't an emotion. Only prayer that is noetic is in Spirit and Truth, otherwise it's prone to prelest. You try to push dangerous things.
Fr. is very good. 👍🙏😏
He said come as you are! But don’t stay as you were
Where does the Scripture say that Christ accept the veneration of the icon as a veneration of Himself?
If a Sin against an image of God is a Sin against God then Veneration of an Image of God is Veneration of God.
If you believe that Veneration of the Image of God is Immoral, whether that be in Christ or those He Himself has Glorified in Himself, you shouldn't kiss your loved ones or even participate in the creation of New Images of God.
@@acekoala457 had the painter of the icon seen God?
What does Orthodox Church think of speaking in tongues? Have our church fathers experienced it and written about it? I know I’m Acts they begin speaking in tongues they do not know or understand but others do understand it in their own language, so they are shocked that these Jews speak their language. Also, Because ST. Paul in Corinthians I 14:2 writes “for he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.” But also St Paul says “unless you utter by the tongue words east to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. Therefore if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.” “For if I pray in tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.”
Long story short - so it’s my understanding that tongues have been understood by another; even if I don’t understand say Chinese and I begin speaking Chinese, Chinese person will understand it. I have no clue what I’m uttering but the Holy Spirit does and communicates to that person in their language. It’s been my understanding that the gift of tongues is not a language no one on earth understands, rather a language I didn’t know or presently know yet somehow I speak so I can preach the gospel to another person so they may understand. What’s the take on church fathers regarding this? Because we do not find anyone on earth who underhanded what “babadaba zatatata” means like these charismatic babble.
It doesn't happen in orthodox or Catholic churches, and if it does prists, perform exorcism to cast out the demons.
Amen Father (on tongues)
I'm a Christian who believes in a prayer language "speaking in tongues" (unknown, Spirit lead, heavenly tongue only between person and God unless translated) so I disagree with a few minor points in there, or at least in the sense that the purity and power of speaking in a prayer language wasn't touched on and was kind of disregarded, but not completely. I understand where he's coming from on his view there and was surprised that he was fairly balanced in his response. I can certainly respect Fr. James' responses and I believe he is Spirit lead.
I have a genuine question. Are icons a way of worship to God in the same way I might play worship music as I worship God? Is it art that supplements our worship to God? As a creative, I can understand if this is the understanding to it. I can also see how icons may be seen as "holy" just like worship music may be seen as "holy".
Any insights would be helpful. Thanks!
My friend, the discussion about icons can be very, very large - much larger than the comment space of YT. The icons first of all, are a way of comfort, of consolation. My best example is the Anglican Manchester Cathedral: It is a mostly un-iconic Cathedral of a Protestant Church, which has a special chapel for women who have lost their children during birth. In this chapel, the English Church has placed an Eastern Orthodox icon with Virgin Mary carrying little Jesus in her embrace. I don't think you need to explain this further...
Painting the icons is a way of calming the mind, a way of meditation if you wish. Many monks have included iconography (hagiography in Greek) in their ascetic practice: The mind is focused on the Work and defies the needs of the body, which, according to our nature, inevitably include the needs of the flesh. Traditionally, the painter in one temple is somehow "sacred": An hagiographer like the Russian Andrei Roublev, may even become beautified because of his art, exactly the way a hymnograph (a maker of sacred hymns) like Romanos the Melodist was beautified for his perfect hymns that manage to raise the spirit and the heart of the listener. I stronly urge you to see the film "Andrei Roublev" made by the famous Soviet film maker Andrei Tarkovski - it is slow and long, but it is a true seminar on Orthodoxy.
Of course, in the Orthodox Church. God the Father is almost never depicted. The icons are "psychedelic" images of Christ, Virgin Mary, the Archangels and the saints of the Church. Their art, intentionally, is not realistic: Its purpose is not to satisfy the eye with its external beauty (like the paintings of the great Masters of the Western Rennaisance) but to speak to the soul. Thus, the icons become archetypes in the collective subconscious if you wish. From time to time, the depicted one may even appear to a person - but I will exclude that chapter of theophany for the moment...
In our homes in the East, everyone traditionaly was keeping a small "altar" in his house: Two or three icons with Jesus, the Virgin and the favorite saint, sometimes the picture of beloved deceased and an oil lamp that was always burning...
I funny how those that don't speak in tongues always try to explain what they haven't experienced. We are called to witness for a reason.
@criss6945 Rather than criticizing what you haven't experienced. Seek and you will find knock, and it will be opened. Tongues is also about yielding to the Holy Spirit.
발리: 배리, 나는 오순절교를
좋아하고 무례하게 보이고 싶지
않지만, 술취한 사람도 한동한
좋아하는 경험을 할 수 있습니다.
Veneration of Icons must be included, or you just end up venerating your phone and television set. Magazines and Billboards. etc.
Put first things first.
When I learned to:
Worship God
venerate icons
then the rest fell below that quite a bit.
Ive alwaus found it instersting when ardent iconoclasts have pictures of sports atheletes and such but images of Jesus are banned. Its very islamic.
우리 모두는 기독교에 대한 완전한 관점이 필요합니다.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 does not say that we should not do this, it is talking about speaking in tongues that edify the Church in public, there are two types of spiritual gifts of speaking in tongues one is for the public and one is in your private prayer between you and God. You have to read the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians as well as other books in the bible that speak on this topic, not only two verses to make a point.
The difference in Orthodox Christianity: " The symbol is connected to the reality it represents. "
My hold up with orthodoxy is prayer to the saints, while I respect them and know they were a huge part of church history the only Intercessor Is Jesus Christ as said in the Bible many times, the Bible does talk about saints but never says to pray to them. I will admit that I know very little about orthodoxy but I am curious, if I am wrong please correct me, I would like to know other opinions, and as much about it as I can, thank you!
Keep researching and go an Orthodox Church and ask a priest. God bless you and stay off the internet for your mental health
It is all about the affection and understanding that our Church Triumphant is with us, barrier between them and us does NOT exist, then it becomes natural to ask them, who are with the Lord, to intercede on our behalf. It is much easier to get a job if someone already working in that company recommends you to the employer... right.? So... why not to ask our Saints to recommend us to the Lord.?
@@johnnyd2383 that definitely makes sense, thank you for your response, I don’t mean to be argumentative but Jesus calls himself the way the truth and the life, He talks about prayer to God, don’t you suppose if we’re meant to pray to the saints, He would’ve said it somewhere?
@@user-dj1kl4sv6kThe saints aren’t a middle man to God per se. They are in communion with us believers on earth. When we saying prayers to saints, we don’t mean literally worship/prayer, we simply ask for their intercession. We ask them to pray for us.
We pray to God first and firstmost but we ask our friends (including the Saints) to pray for us. They can only hear our prayers because of God. They don’t have any authority over Christ or any power.
We ask the saints to pray for us much like we would ask our friends or brothers and sisters to pray for us. The prayer of the righteous availeth much and we believe that if one has attained sainthood they are very much in a righteous state and therefore their prayers are heard before the throne of God. I need all the help I can get and if I can ask the saints for their intercession as well as asking my friends for their prayers then I will do it. The saints are part of the Church Triumphant while we are the Church Militant here on earth and we are together the Church of Christ. They are the great cloud of witnesses that can help and assist us.
I never read that Jesus venerated icons, and the Pharisees never accused him of committing idolatry for venerating icons (they would have accused Him of idolatry based on that).
Icons are the Bible Not in words but in images ❤️🔥
We take "reading" for granted in 20th century- but very few folks has that skill or books in 300AD. Thus , icons were biblestudy back then!
Everyone in here is arguing over religion and tongues and idols and whatnot....
Do yall talk to God?
Do you have a relationship with him as your heavenly father? If you dont have that, dont worry about all the bells and whistles. Get that first, and the peace that surpasses understanding will make things clear. That is a first and foremost.
You don’t abandon the Church. That’s exactly what a Protestant would do. You work to improve it just like you would your family.
What a hideous generalization.
A personal prayer language and tongues are two different things and have to do with the direction information is flowing. One is The Spirit in you interceding on your behalf, and the other is God through the Holy Sprit communicating with us and needs to be confirmed with interpretation. Your personal prayer language is not sinful.
I was taught to have the same mind set as the first question, I'm looking into orthodoxy too (currently atheist) I actually like the idea of images, and beautiful church buildings etc I think they can lift the human more towards God, I imagine walking into an environment like that and being sealed off from the world for a bit allows one to really focus on just God and nothing else.
Also, what about historical context ? In the original apostles day could most people read and write ? If not, could it be they used images and symbolic representations to convey the teachings? And if that is the case does that make them wrong ?
Saint Paul clearly lays out in scripture that there are multiple types of tongues, including a personal prayer language. Not just the tongues that happened at Pentecost. He also says "I thank God I pray in tongues more than you all" and commands the church not to forbid tongues. I wouldn't call that taking it lightly...Let's not lead people astray here...
As someone who believes what you just laid out, I don’t think he’s leading anyone astray. I think he presented his understanding with grace, and didn’t take a hardline stance against it because he clearly knows that sometimes it’s a genuine thing.
But as someone who’s been all around charismatic cultures, I absolutely understand why someone who is outside of it would hesitate, because he’s right… sometimes it’s not genuine at all.
Love and peace friend.
@@thomasneal7669 my biggest qualm is how the only act of tongues expounded upon is that of Pentecost, when there is much more to it, thus painting the gift in a bad light. There are various abuses in every denomination and part of the church, but we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
@@ChrisNielsWe don't believe that the Orthodox Church is a denomination but the very Church herself.
@@ChrisNielswhy was there an 1800 year gap in the gifts ??
@@bigtobacco1098 show me evidence that in 1800 years nobody prophesied, had a dream or vision by the Lord, were healed against all physical odds and limitations, delivered from evil spirits or prayed in tongues by the utterance of the Spirit... There is absolutely zero evidence physically or scripturally my friend.
People! We don’t worship statues! Good grief! You have pictures of your loved ones in your home we Catholics have pictures and statues of Jesus in his house OUR house! Get it?
Is that not a graven image
@@TheWildTroveis the image of your dead grandma a graven image?
@@xbemos my grandmother is a mere human
I was raised apostolic pentecostal and my grandparents were the preacher. Ive heard a woman speak jn tounges, she was speaking fluently, and beautifully a heavenly language. Its interpreted by another person. The bible says one will speak and one will interpret. When the holy ghost comes on you some people speak in tounges. Im a apostle of Christ, a follower of his teachings, and im here to spread the name and message of Christ Jesus. He knows your heart, so keep it pure and pray that the holy spirit fills you and shows you the mind of Christ. Im now 40 years old and have been a Christian my whole life. Ive never had a time in my life where i questioned if God was real or if he was with me. Through my whole life ive been a Christian, and what ive learned is mans ritiuals, and religions, are not of the Father, they're of the evil one. The holy Bible, which is the inspired word of God, tells us EVERYTHING we need to know about our spiritual life and physical life. You just have to ask Jesus Christ amd then look into his word for the answer. If you seek, you will find.
"Interpreted" by another person? It's make believe.
I’m Protestant and I have to agree with the priest. I got invited to a church and they started speaking gibberish including the pastor and I looked at my family and said it’s time to go. There and then we left. 11:14 . I visited another church where the pastor was yelling out that if you visit his church you’re coming to see him talk and if you want to leave you have to explain to him 😂. I stood up while he was mid tantrum and started to walk out three different people tried to stop me and asked why I was leaving. I told them I go to Church to worship God not the preacher. What he is saying is wrong all three didn’t say a word and moved to the side. I started to pray to God to show me where he wants me to go and the two churches that my heart leans to is Catholic and Orthodox. I didn’t know it was the same Church at one point. One United Church. What holds me back from going Catholic is ideas like purgatory it’s not Biblical. I’m learning more and more and so far Orthodox seems like it was the one who stayed true to how the Church has worked. Only thing holding me back from attending an Orthodox Church is that every church I looked into is very heavy on a country of origin like Greek, Bulgarian, or Russian. It doesn’t feel inviting like I don’t belong there unless I’m of that culture. I wonder if the Church united again how many Protestants would run back. There is so much Christian tradition we don’t know that would really help us with our walk with God. Anyways Love every single one of my brothers and sister in Christ ✝️☦️. With God on my side I will soon be directed down the right path.
What if the toungues are interpreted?
And who interprets them? It's gibrish or demonic. It doesn't happen in Orthodox or Catholic churches. It also wasn't a thing for 1800 years. Those people need exorcism or psychotherapy.
@@corruptionofmankind1796 speaking in toungues has always been a “thing.” Just because your not capable of understanding something doesn’t make it “hog wash”
@@crowder2320 not in Catholicism or Orthodoxy. We see it for what it is.
Careful with your accusations;
1 Corinthians 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
What!!! “The waters were changed”?? Just looked at all 4 gospels accounts…. No where does it say the waters were changed…
Satans kingdom is United, meanwhile Christianity is like come to our denomination, run to our church, our church preaches the truth, everyone else is wrong, mine is the only one that is true.
May God give us His grace to be United. Oneness in Christ.
He is the greatest of great illustrators,