The Apostle Paul vs James & Peter - What's Their Beef? Dr. James D. Tabor
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In this “compulsively readable exploration of the tangled world of Christian origins” (Publishers Weekly), religious historian James Tabor illuminates the earliest years of Jesus’ teachings before Paul shaped them into the religion we know today.
This fascinating examination of the earliest years of Christianity reveals how the man we call St. Paul shaped Christianity as we know it today.
Historians know almost nothing about the two decades following the crucifixion of Jesus, when his followers regrouped and began to spread his message. During this time Paul joined the movement and began to preach to the gentiles. Using the oldest Christian documents that we have-the letters of Paul-as well as other early Christian sources, historian and scholar James Tabor reconstructs the origins of Christianity. Tabor shows how Paul separated himself from Peter and James to introduce his own version of Christianity, which would continue to develop independently of the message that Jesus, James, and Peter preached.
Paul and Jesus illuminates the fascinating period of history when Christianity was born out of Judaism.================================
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Seems like a lot of fundamentalist worship and listen to the word of Paul more than Jesus.
@@DBCiscoCan we prove there was a Paul
@@DBCisco So no Paul
@@DBCisco Can I ask you another question?
Correct. The all want to run away as far as possible form Jesus' Judaism and Paul is the perfect race car.
@@thesolarengineer There is a lot of B.S. to go around for sure.
Paul seems complex. I don't believe him when he says that Jesus revealed himself to him. Their paradigms are worlds apart.
I’m with this guy…my fundamentalist friends don’t like it when I say things like this…and yet I still say things like this…
"Their paradigms are worlds apart."
You must be joking.
Jesus and 12 were preaching to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses, Paul was told by Jesus to preach to the gentiles - PAGANS, i.e. different laws, traditions, habits, sacrifices, millions of gods = different approach.
That happened because Jews rejected Jesus and God Himself. That's why God opened His doors to the gentiles.
God washed away our sins through Jesus' blood and faith in Him - NOT through works, because the Law (of Moses) proved salvation through works impossible - because people are corrupt to the core and NO deed can ever be perfect and good enough to match the standards of God - because, even when we do something good, we use it in vain to be great in our own eyes.
Isaiah 64:6 (ESV)
6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
That's why we were saved through FAITH in Jesus - and it was by God's Grace (Grace is God giving us something we cannot earn or deserve).
Our salvation was a gift from God - FOR FREE ...
Because of Jesus' victim and sacrifice for ALL of us, there was no need for sacrifices that were obligatory under the Law of Moses ... for the circumcision, dividing of the fabrics and so on - anymore.
Not even for the religious establishment - Matthew 18:20: 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
For, when Jesus died for our sins, we gained straight path to God. Matthew 27:51 says, "Behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
And that's what Paul was preaching.
Then the Bible contains lies and we might as well throw it away because it’s unreliable.
@@MultiSky7 Amen purihin ang panginoong Jesus 🙏🙏🙏
You must not worship God in truth and in spirit. Paul could perform miracles when he became a follower of Christ. Could he do that when he was a Judaist?
As I’m listening to this I’m thinking to myself…Paul was so close with Jesus, talking to him in spirit yet Jesus didn’t tell him that he isn’t coming anytime……. soon. 😂 poor Paul
2000 years still doesn't qualify as "long" in the face of eternity.
@@EndoftheAge717 2000 10000 same result
jesus and paul both said that the end times would come within the lifetimes of those then living. It didn't happen. It's not gonna happen. It's a fable.
@@scambammer5940 Jesus said that some of those around will see the kingdom of heaven in their lifetime. In another instant he said that the kingdom of heaven is within. Ever considered that aside the historic chain of events there might also be an individual?
@@petervonbergen5364 what do you mean by INDIVIDUAL?
Isn't it strange that Jesus forgot to tell the Jerusalem people about Paul's Gospel?
He forgot to tell them that their way would disappear and a different way would dominate.
Nope he told them. Jesus foretold of false prophets to come. Paul came in fulfillment, Paul is a false prophet just as Jesus foretold
@@KeepingWatch95 When you put it that way.... 🙂
@@GravityBoy72 _Jesus foretold and warned about false prophets to come. He warned what they would do and what they would say. Paul then does come and do these very things._
Matthew 7:15 *Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.*
Matthew 7:16 *Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?*
_Jesus says in Matt __7:16__;_ *“...Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”*
_Paul said in;_ Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that *beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:*
_It appears there was no greater among the thorns and thistles than Paul who persecuted the church of God “beyond measure” and “wasted it.”_
_Jesus says in Matt __7:16__;_ *“...Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”*
_Paul said in;_ 1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save *sinners; of whom I am chief.*
_Paul confirmed that there was no greater among the thorns and thistles for he was the chief of sinners._
_Jesus says in_ Matthew 24:23 *Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.*
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
_Regardless of what Jesus had said (“...if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ ...believe it not” in Matt __24:23__) Paul wants others to believe that Jesus meet with Paul._
Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Matthew 24:26 *Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.*
_Furthermore the road to Damascus is said to have been a desert/wilderness place and may still be a desert/wilderness._
_Jesus says_ Matthew 24:24 *For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.*
_Regardless of what Jesus' warns about signs and wonders in Matt __24:24__, Paul claims to be nothing behind the “very chiefest apostles” because of his signs, and wonders._
2 Corinthians 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
2 Corinthians 12:12 *Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought* among you in all patience, *in signs, and wonders,* and mighty deeds.
_Jesus foretold and warned about false prophets to come. He warned what they would do and what they would say. Paul comes and does these very things._
@@GravityBoy72 😊
Jesus said they would know a lot more with the advent of the Holy Spirit. Paul was the greatest apostle.
James Tabor raises many important points in this video regarding the split between Pauline & Nazorean Ebionite Christianities but (probably due to constraints of time) fail’d to do the deeper dive into other places in the Canonical Greek New Testament such as Revelation 2:9 & 3:9-10 (‘Pay no heed to those persons claiming to be Apostles but are nothing of the kind but Liars [& Deceivers] of the Synagogue of Satan...) and (‘Lo, I shall cause the men of the Synagogue of Satan to be brought before you groveling at your feet-those men who are claiming to have been Judean-born but are no such thing but rather are Liars belonging to the Synagogue of Satan-Behold, you will know that I have chosen you [over them]’ (see Targum of DeuteroIsaiah 45:14)
Clearly these verses in Revelation seem to be conscious swipes at Saul of Tarsus (aka ‘Paul’, lit. ‘Tiny’) who claim’d over and over and over again in the letters bearing his name in the Canonical Greek New Testament that he was an ‘Apostolos’ of Jesus - i.e. one personally ‘sent’ by R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (BCE 12-36 CE) -a man he never met in person at all but only in dreams & visions like my gardener-(see I Corinthians chapter 9, & 15:9, Galatians 1:1, 1:11-12; Romans 1:1 &c)
Moreover Paul goes out of his way to insist that he is a ‘Judaean’ of the Tribe of Benjamin & a Pharisee (Philippians 3:5 &c) whereas he was certainly NOT born in Palestine but in Tarsus, the capital city of Cilicia in modern day Turkey -and moreover home of the Roman Worship of Mithras (via Cilician Pirates who introduc’d the cult from Persia c. 63 BCE) -so we can catch a glimpse (along with the whole of Galatians chapter 2 which no serious textual scholar doubts was the writing of Paul himself throughout) which shews the enmity that existed between the Ebionite Torah Abiding & Circumcision-loving Nazorean Christians out of Jerusalem under the auspices of Yakkov bar Yosef, haTzaddiq (James son of Joseph, the Righteous) who was Jesus’ blood brother & whose position as eventual head of the Jesus End of Days Community (despite his not being a disciple or one of the 12 or of the 70, but ran a distinct branch call’d ‘The Poor Ones’ (haEvionim, later call’d the Ebionites who splinter’d into factions after the 1st Fail’d Jewish War against Rome (66-72 CE) was soley bas’d on his Daviddic bloodline (in fact all Ebionite Bishops before the War were chosen from the Daviddic lineage bas’d on blood relation to Jesus himself) -
Or as the Gospel of Thomas states in L. 9 - ‘Rabbi, if you are taken from us, to whom then shall we turn to follow?’ And he said to them, if the Bar Enasha (‘son of Man’ see AramDaniel 7:13ff) is taken from you, you are to go at once to my. brother Yakkov haTzaddiq (‘James the Just’) for whose sake Heaven & Earth had come into being !’
Anyone reading phrases like ‘those two so-call’d pillars’ when Paul was referring to ‘Kephah’ (Shimeon bar Yonah, HaKefah, aka ‘Peter’) & Yohanon bar Zavdai (two of the 3 inner circle members of the original Jesus Movement) in Galatians chapter 2 would see the obvious jealousy that ‘Paul’ felt about the original disciples whom he avoided (apparently rather shortly after meeting only the Top Brass of the movement) like the plague...
Unfortunately Acts chapters 15 & 18 has signs of a later 2nd century style smooth’d over post Jewish War (post 72 CE) harmonisation of the original bitter friction between Paul’s antinomians and the Torah-Abiding Nazorean Evionim under James the Just -we can glean a trace of the vitriol which pass’d between the two hated groups in the early 50s from Paul’s own words in Galatians chapter 2 - what can only be describ’d as an accident of history occurred after the First Jewish War (66-72CE) when the Torah Abiding circumcising Nazorean Ebionites under James the Just were virtually wip’d out (along with most of the Daviddic descendants-Jesus’ brother Judah Ha Thomah (‘Thomas’ aka the Twin) had a daughter and 2 twin grandsons who manag’d to escape to Pella and survive into the reign of Domitian in 96 CE) whereas Paul’s gentile-Loving antiTorah antinomian antiCircumcision churches in the Diaspora (mainly in Macedonia, Greece & present-day Turkey) surviv’d to get far more press in the Canonical Greek New Testament (whereas ‘James the Just’ & ‘Jude’ and other representatives of the Nazorean Ebionite branches of the earliest Christianities barely got one letter each into the NT canon...)
In the Book of Revelation’s 7 letters there are 7 calls to ‘shuvah’ (‘repentance’ which according to protoIsaiah chapter 8:20 means ‘return to obeying the Torah & the Testimony [of the prophets]’ to which was added in other places in Revelation 3 more calls to ‘Return’ reflecting the 10 Days of Repentance (‘Yomei Aseret Teshuvah’) Festival following the Feast of Trumpets- Rosh Hashannsh (Sept New Year) and sandwich’d in before Yom Kippur where the High Priest in Jerusalem call’d qol-Yisro’el to repentance back to obeying Torah and ‘sealing’ the House of Yisro’el for the coming year against Tribulation...sound familiar ?
Several passages in chapters 2 & 3 of Revelation use terms like ‘repent & be zealous’ (Rev 3:18-20) meaning go back to the Kabbalah (‘traditions’) of the Abboth (‘the fathers’) meaning to obeying the Torah & ignoring those preachers of the Synagogue of Satan who claim Torah obedience even for Messianic Jews & Christians in the Diaspora was unnecessary and are saved ‘by faith alone’ -absolutely refuting & flying in the face of what is written in plain Koine Greek in canonical James’ letter (‘salvation by faith without ma’aseh ha Torah - works of the Law-is like a dead body in the gutter-a corpse without a soul to give life to it...’) see James 2:14-26 &c.
In the Dead Sea Scrolls the phrase ‘be zealous for the Torah’ occurs several dozen times - a description which Paul claim’d he bragg’d was his habit ‘as a Pharisee Zealous in obeying Torah’) in the period before his conversion following what sounds like a ‘lightning strike’ with qolot & Orim (thunders & brilliant lights) which knock’d him out cold ‘carrying me into the 3rd Heaven, I suppose...’
So when we read in Revelation chapter 3:20ff ‘be therefore Zealous & Repent’ the writer of the 7 letters in Revelation (Part of the 7 heads & 10 horns of Daniel Typology) was clearly implying that the Yahad Messianic Synagogue e.g. at Philadelphia (in present-day Turkey) had stray’d from obeying the Torah of their fathers and needed to return to the Torah by being Zealous for the Law...
One could make a case therefore that 99% of modern day ‘Christians’ are in fact ‘Pauline Christians’ bas’d on the warp’d theology of a 1st century ‘heretic’ and that the original ‘Christian Torah Abiding Circumcising Messianists’ that knew & follow’d Jesus ‘in the flesh’ have all but died out to-day...
They say Jesus was a Naxorean then Paul says the Nasoreans are full of it. Follow me I know the Truth. (its Roman) Oh yeah bring cash..
Yes the Ebionites were the Jewish Christians Paul disputed with (and according to Epiphanius, they came after the Temple was destroyed) and after a disastrous prediction about the end of the world (the 'man of lawlessness' being Terentius Maximus) Paul was rejected in Asia as he says in Timothy. Hence the Revelation was written in Asia for the Asian churches disparaging Paul. You are right but note that it all happened during the reign of Titus or shortly after.
@@paulgeorge1144 - ‘sell all you have & give the proceeds to the Evionim’ = the church fathers didn’t want to dwell on this group of James the Just apparently - and only reference the later postWar splinter groups after James the Just had died (sometime around 62 CE) - but it is clear that James the Just was the Daviddic successor to Jesus & that he headed up a group call’d ‘the poor ones’ even whilst his brother was still alive and that before the war they only recruited Episcopoi (= meqqaberin, ‘over-seers’) from Daviddic branches - after James died & the War came (66-72CE) the group lost most of its Daviddic membership & splinter’d into factions and it is these factions that the Church Fathers call’d The Ebionites & didn’t even seem to know where they came from (some like the self-castrated Tertullian in the early 3rd century said ‘named after one Ebion a heretic’ displaying his compleat ignorance of the historical facts)
So yes, there were splinter Ebionites during the time of Titus and into the early mediaeval period but the first ones seem to have originated with James the Just (or possibly even further back to John the Baptist)...
The way the Lambert of god is critical about the Bible, while maintaining a love for it at the same time actually inspires a whole new love for the book itself. Thank god for people like Derick , and , Dr. Tabor.
can see the qualitative difference - there are lots of opinions on the topic discussed here that Paul and the Jeresalem church leadership were at odds because of Paul obsoleting the Law, so to speak.
But Dr. Tabor puts the crucial point on the matter that Paul truly beleived that the return of Christ was so eminent that so much of what we get caught up worrying about will soon pass away and in the new reality will no longer matter. He was just living that new reality that he soon saw to be at hand.
There is much less soap opera drama in the point Dr. Tabor puts forth on the matter. But people do like their soap opera drama.
For some reason Jesus lives rent free in their heads.
I feel like this channel has been mind blowing for the past year with the quality of interviewing and guests. It's shocking how few subscribers you have compared to what you're actually pouring out for us. Thanks for being persistent; you'll get there!
I loved Michael Goulder's book "St. Paul versus St. Peter", where he pretty vividly describes how he imagines some of these conflicts that occur in Paul's congregations when "other apostles" show up.
Guess who won the soccer match Italia 1 Levant 0
Those other apostles were checking Paul and he didn’t like it. I think Paul was a false apostle who meant to thwart the Way.
@@Stacyaj10 This was the very thought that eventually led me to becoming a Muslim, much to my surprise.
@@jpaqon I’m considering it
@@Stacyaj10 No, he wasn't. His passion proves it. The fierce with which he prosecuted Christians, was even stronger and bigger in defending Jesus, defending Christianity, preaching about Jesus and teaching people about Jesus - no matter how much suffer, jailing and beating it took, and he suffered A LOT.
He just didn't like hypocrisy and BS.
It seems that most people tend to forget that James, Jesus' brother, was mocking Jesus almost all his life, didn't believed Him, thought that Jesus lost it, during Jesus’ public ministry, his brothers rejected his message, criticized him, and refused to follow him - until he (James) saw him Resurrected, people forget that Peter betrayed Jesus 3 times at the night Jesus was captured even though he said he never would ...
Paul's Gospel came from Jesus, NOT humans, that's why he wouldn't/couldn't debate other apostles, because he had clear instructions from Jesus Himself - that he was about to preach and convert the gentiles.
He was chosen to preach to the gentiles because he was educated, spoke several languages, had Roman citizenship, travelled before, was witty and courageous, but before all - Jesus showed him who's the boss because of his prosecution of the Christians - or, as people would say - karma.
He knew that we are under the Grace and no more under the Law (of Moses), that we are saved through FAITH alone - not deeds (as it is under the law), and gentiles were NEVER under the Law anyway, so how, and mostly WHY, would you insist on imposing something on people who have nothing to do with it, never had and the thing that you want to impose is not required anymore, anyway ... and James and Peter, at the end, agreed with it.
As an Orthodox Jew myself, I thought Dr. Tabor's joke about racing to the latrines before Shabbat was pretty funny.
I was wondering if I might ask this question. Please don't feel obligated to answer, since i may be asking out of ignorance. I see the law summed up in Abraham's part in the covenant between G_d and himself. The Hebrew word for circumcision defines how we should live. We are not to "offend" our neighbor. Offenses are fences between ourselves and others. Circumcision is the ever present reminder to cut off of-fence-ive behaviors. NOT that we should cut off a right hand or eye--but cut out the bad behavior. It seems that the men and women coming out of Egypt were so indoctrinated or affected by slavery that they needed Moses to spell out what their behavior should be. Exactly how were they to love their neighbors and how to love G_d. Moses was overwhelmed with the people coming to him to settle their conflicts. And it seems to me they were given the most important instruction. That the Lord is One, To love Him with all my heart, all my soul, all my mind and strength And to love my neighbor as my self. Then the 10 laws which spell it out. And that still wasn't enough. Paul has gone back to the basic tenents of faith. Gentiles will be drawn into the kingdom by cords of love. The benefactor offers to save, heal and deliver. He saves us through forgiveness. The healing of the soul will come after when, the gentile has questions about behavior. Paul seems to have been obedient to the essence of the law in trying not to offended either Jew or Greek. As a gentile, I understand that through the Word, i have the law written on my heart. When my behavior conflicts with the will of the father, i must either allow myself to be changed or refuse the gift of healing. The will of G_d does not change. I suppose some want to reform G_d, but He wants to reform us...in due time. It is sad that the importance cutting out offenses has been lost. I believe that "righteousness" is a gift to be received by faith and confession. My soul was healed. The was an offensive desire of my heart that needed to be surgically removed by circumcision of the heart. I have never heard anyone preach about Abraham's covenant in this way. Have I gotten it wrong?
@@nadzach Biblically, causing offense is not a sin. We should try to avoid it as a matter of having good manners, but offense in and of itself is not wrong. For example, truth offends liars, goodness offends the wicked, and peace offends the violent.
Secondly, the Law is written on a person's heart when that person desires of his own free will to observe what the Law commands (or what God command via the Law). Do Christians desire to eat kosher, observe the Sabbath, wearing tefillin, etc.? No. Ok, so Christians do not have the Law written on their hearts then - nor do they have to. There is no biblical command for Gentiles to have the Law written on their hearts. This was said exclusively of Jews, i.e. the people to whom the Law was given. The Law was not given to the Gentile nations.
The Bible does not deal in broad themes or general universalistic narratives. That's largely a modern Christian misconception. The Bible is a piece of Jewish literature, written by Jews, for Jews, documenting Jewish spiritual, political, intellectual, philosophical, literary, and historical developments. There's not much in it "for" non-Jews. It can benefit non-Jews, there are some things that happen to be universally applicable, but it was not "for" non-Jews, if that makes sense.
The rabbis, through the oral tradition and through the holy spirit, developed a system of biblical religion for Gentiles which is called the sheva mitzvos bnai Noach (the seven laws for the children of Noah), i.e. Noahidism. These are seven broad categories of law which cover man's relationship with God, with his fellow human, and even with animals. A person does not have to be Jewish in order to "be saved" or go to heaven. A person just has to be the best version of himself that he can be, pursuing justice and holiness no matter his situation.
There are plenty of wonderful Christians and Muslims out there that are very good people. They love God and try to do their best in life. The basic Noahide laws can be found in both of these religions already, so if a person follows his NT or Quran devoutly, he will already be very close to godliness. However, there are many details to each of the seven laws and these details are found in the Jewish legal tradition called the Oral Law. This is why all prospective Noahides must learn from a competent rabbinic authority in order to know how to live his life in righteousness and decency. I recommend consulting AskNoah.org or purchasing Rabbi Moshe Weiner's book called The Divine Code.
www.amazon.com/Divine-Code-Observing-Noahide-Revealed-ebook/dp/B0719SDQVM#:~:text=The%20Divine%20Code%20is%20the,details%20of%20the%20Noahide%20precepts.
@@TzaddikMedia Thank you. I am saving your helpful comment to consider more carefully later.
This is all great stuff. One of the things I'm curious about is why no mention of Robert Eisenman? He's the guy who made the Dead Sea Scrolls accessible to scholars of every stripe, wresting legal control of them from the Catholic Church. The Church had tried to control the scholarship on the scrolls until he challenged them. Eisenman wrote extensively about James, the Brother of Jesus, the Pseudo Clementine Recognitions, Acts, the Mandeans, Ebionites, the early Church fathers and Josephus. I know Eisenman is retired from teaching and research now, but he doesn't get nary a mention in your 'tubecasts.' All of the scholars you bring on owe at least a debt of gratitude to him, even if you might not agree with his findings.
I watched Robert Eisenman videos about Paul, the most eye opening revelations about a Biblical figure I've seen, completely changed everything I thought about the NT, so what I take from your statement is this, people will reveal who they are by what they say or don't say about a subject, it depends on the viewers knowledge to be able to see thru rhetoric..... you should've seen my eyes open wide when I saw his name in your comment 👀👌 were scholars talking about Paul like this before him? if so let me know...
@@adrian72300 well, I don't have names of scholars and researchers who came upon this view of Paul before Eisenman, but I can't help but feel this discussion has been around in academic circles for a long time. Eisenman had to have been inspired and challenged by his professors to think critically about the various texts, he's written about. I also wonder about those scholars in the apologist camp, particularly the Roman Catholic Church scholars. Eisenman had to wrest control of the Dead Sea Scroll scholarship from the Church through legal means. The question arises, why did the Church need to have control over the Scrolls in the first place? I can't help, but feel their scholars were already aware of these problems, even before the discovery of the scrolls, maybe centuries before. However, the Scrolls posed the problem of confirming the disagreements between Paul and James and Peter among other things and elucidating how deep those disagreements ran. So yeah there had to have been other scholars who were aware of that view of Paul before Eisenman articulated it.
@@JohnHoulgate Agreed, I should have been more specific with my comment, you just don't see modern scholars, make videos like his
@@adrian72300 Yeah, this is all new ground for sharing this kind of information. I read Bob Eisenman's book, "James, The Brother Of Jesus" when it was fairly new. It was about 1,000 pages long and written in a very complex academic style - very difficult reading, but there were some very interesting takeaways that I think shed light on early Christian history.
@@JohnHoulgate What was your core take away from reading his book?
Don't you find strange that Paul never had another encounter with Jesus, yet he keeps modifying Christian church beliefs to attract gentiles and confuse Jews. Specially the eating of meat that had been offered to pagan Gods.
I think he never had an encounter ?!?! I'm loosing it
Exactly! "Refuse nothing that is sold in the shambles, not asking questions for conscience's sake" Paul clearly knows all the meat there was sacrificed unto idols, and inadvertently spills the beans! 😁
There was a reason Jesus sent the Holy Spirit.
And Paul never said we should meat eat sacrificed to pagan gods.
Why not deal with the truth of scripture? Our opinions are irrelevant.
I enjoyed listening to this interview with professor James D Tabor about Paul and James interactions and development of the early church growth.
He spoke for upwards of 30-minutes and never did get to the point of the video. What's their beef?
James Tabor is a gift. Great interview Derek.
This channel continues to be one of the best balances of scholarship and accessibility on all of YT. I hope you get 10 million subs.
Though he is a little wacko in atheism. As a God Beleiver myself.
how many billions of people has Paul mislead over time
So sad
This is so sad, made me cry. Blasphemy has no forgiveness. What a serious thing!!
I like Tireo Hammond says we need to have our opinion when following God.
But the truth is without Paul Christianity would probably never made it outside of Jerusalem and the Jewish communities living in the Roman Empire.
@@irathompson6471 a catch 22 …
Dr Tabor seems so genuine with no agenda beyond finding the truth. What a treasure.
Always great to watch and listen to Dr Tabor.
BRAVO, Professor Tabor! Well done.
This helped bring the final pieces of the story together. Paul would practice being a Jew when with Peter/James but not when with gentiles. Paul needed Peter/James for credibility but had essentially started his own religion. Later, the gospel of John tries to reconcile these differences.
Nice get to have Professor Tabor. The guest line up has been nothing short of superb as of late.
Hmmmmm......... something in me almost feels like tentatively agreeing with Dr Tabor's minority view that 2Corinthians was referring to characters like James over there in Jerusalem as "superapostles", instead of people based closerby to Corinth. The idea that Paul was hiding a bit of his secretly held views that didn't conform to his earlier agreement with them in Jerusalem which eventually led to a more bitter break.
Professor Tabor 's paul and jesus ,i read it several times.It really change my view of christianity.
Great interview. From your extensive time with Dr. Price, I was surprised you didn't say "I'm familiar with F.C. Baur" when Dr. Tabor brought him up :-).
Where was Paul during the destruction of the Temple in AD. 70????
He was dead
Dr. Tabor does a great interview!
The Best content on Comparative Religion and Spirituality revealing the layers of these myths
From all the scholars I know Prof. Tabor shows the least signs of any kind of personal agenda, no signs of ideology and also he is totally free in saying what he found out by thorough research. If more scholars, men were like him this world would look a lot different. My honest repect!❤🎉 Pls continue to enlighten us!
Wow, very interesting insight. Tabor has done his research and shed knew light on the subject of Torah observance in those days Wow. God Bless him
Thank you…for stirring and thought provoking
Wow. This TH-cam channel keeps inviting on great guests!
Great video! Thank you both!
Thank you
"I'm trusting Paul". Ugh, that blows his credibility.
Whers Waldo OH i found Waldo . Wheres Paul the Usurper of the Apostles that may not be real either? Burn the Witches..
It was on one specific point and reasons were given. We can trust Paul as a witness to the split in the Jesus movement of the first century.
I think Paul did a good enough job of blowing his own credability.
I just love to listen to Mr. Tabor
This guy is very respectful as he explains this not deliberately attacking faiths of jews or Christians
when we are slandered, we answer kindly. We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world-right up to this moment
Yes, this is an Amazing Interview. Beautiful!
Really enjoy Dr Tabor, so courteous and enthusiastic, very refreshing. My issue with his lectures as well as someone like Bart Ehrman is that so many data points are left out or stretched, so that when I double back on their presentations to read the source material, an incredible number of texts are just left out of their argument. Case in point: Paul's omission of the pre-existence of Jesus of Nazareth as a divine character. There is no mention of Romans 8:3 or Colossians 1:15ff or Hebrews 1:2 possibly written by one of Paul's companions, not to mention the incredible number of texts from the Wisdom of Solomon (in your NRSV Episcopal, Catholic or Orthodox Bibles) in which the language of the pre-existing character of Wisdom as a Person was there in the beginning with the Father, and this language about Wisdom was studied and used by the authors of the NT autographs as source material to conceptualize early NT theology. I am not Catholic or Orthodox, but the entire corpus of the Deutero-canonical works of Paul and the apocrypha do not nullify the orthodox doctrine of Jesus, rather they serve to reflect the opinions and values of the early church or the second temple period that ended in 70 CE. My conclusion is that Doctors Tabor and Ehrman are not sincere in their presentations but are trying to make a living with biblia nouveau - $$$$.
My comment is for Dr. Tabor.
As one under. . . , I take as claim, "I am you, you are I
Colorful, our creation, humanity. Let's God-up, save our Earths' growth; place progress afore our pride.
Paul is about eschatology and a frustration with Judaiism resulting in the repudiation of it, always w his eschatology in mind, to the extent that he himself identifies as gentile. As soon as someone WRITES, and not just blurts out in conversation, that he is all things to all men bc he has a Moses-complex, then his entire schemata as a religious thinker becomes suspect. Scholars who unwittingly sentimentalize Paul, or conveniently set aside his vitriol and utter narcissism, are naive on purpose.
The Jews say Paul was a Greek that converted to Judaism to marry a Jewish woman. She did not want to marry him and he got frustrated with the Jewish faith and its strict rules. So he started his own version of Judaism minus the Abrahamic rules and open it to everybody. The Greek rules (no beard, no circumcision, no long hair, very few rights for women etc) shine through very clearly.
@@mver191 I think you mean the Mosaic rules bc Paul very much liked Abraham's cozy covenant. But, yeah, I don't see a problem w buying into that story. Paul was a very Hellenized Roman citizen, and practically every religious thought he had was formulated in Greek and quite un-Hebraic. Virtually every time he brings up Moses it is to either cunningly misread or just plain outright lie against a particular biblical text. Abraham, when god made all those promises to him, wasn't really asked to do very much in return, if you think about it, except, of course, to just believe. Paul liked that; he was kinda lazy and bubbling with all kinds of latent, unacknowledged emotional issues - hence his overwhelming appeal to modern xtians who occupy the centers of their own little universes wout really having done very much at all to get there. Cheers!
Yes, Paul was quite angry with those who corrected his errant teaching; and I never applied the word narcissist to him, but it fits: his bragging about more beatings, more times closer to death, more times in prison...and his claim that he was the "First Apostle," even before he was conceived.
A really interesting discussion. Thanks Derrek and thanks "Dr. Tabor" :-)
Every time i watch this channel i get an "Gospel to Israeli" commercial
@Auld Lang Syne Go figure why would they. They want you dead and it is all the Elites. They are at war with you and you don't know it yet.
James Tabor's lighting is absolutely perfect. Just saying.
Re: eating of blood, that was a part of the covenant God gave to Noah, thus pre law of Moses, and thus not fulfilled by Jesus
nothing is fulfilled by jesus
Wonderful!!
All the content is brilliant and awesome
Good interview.
Your Patreon content interests me, BUT can you explain how to access Patreon while watching TV on ROKU?
rokutvstick.com/patreon-on-roku/#:~:text=Patreon%20is%20a%20membership%20platform,content%20creators%20and%20their%20fans.&text=The%20app%20isn't%20officially,stream%20Patreon%20contents%20on%20Roku.
Paul was clearly sending shots why are people scared to admit that lol
Two thousand years of momentum.
Paul was delusional af. 😂 beefing the true apostles
@@prophetofanu8933 man listen I don’t even know who his Dad is Lol
Its hard to admit because then the person will be admitting that Pauline christianity has a glaring problem from the beginning. Paul not getting the blessings (approval) of Jesus's original apostles is damaging to Paul's understanding of Jesus. No way someone who never met Jesus have a better understanding than Jesus's handpicked apostles who lived, ate, and learned from him.
There is one idea that Paul was acting as a spy for the Romans.
There are other ideas that he never even existed. Who knows? No one for sure.
Ideas are just that: ideas.
They are not reasoned deductions.
There is an idea that the world is flat.
He was the jail house informant the Romans used
Paul is a liar
Some Theories suggests that Paul was actually Flavius Josephus the Historian.
I’m excited! I’ve read the book, let’s see the video!
Love this
I'd love to a see a discussion between James Tabor and Robert Eisenman on the so-called James ossuary and the alleged Talpiot grave of the family of Jesus. What's Tabo's take on the historicity (or otherwise) of Jesus.
Id like to see a discussion of Paul's idea of faith to be saved versus good works to be saved. I was raised Catholic and remember the importance placed on good works. Could you have someone discuss this topec.
Awesome thanks dr.
I still call my history teacher from high school (1974) Mr Compton! I can’t call him Jimmy to save my life.
My Histoy teacher was Paul Enis, His door said P.Enis.We called him d@&k head. Funny thought after many years.
Who is Paul? is he even met Jesus? What's Quranic perspective about him?
Paul is only jew who used to persecuted the follower of Jesus. Quran implicitly told us who he was.
The disciples of Jesus are called Alhawariyyun in Quran. Quran 5:112 says that the disciples are asking the food in the Last Supper. There was no Paul there of course. Hence, he is not one of the disciples.
Quran 3:50 says "And confirming what was before me (Jesus) of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you." Jesus respected Torah. He made lawful some of Torah Law. He didnt condemn the Torah at all. Not like what Paul said about Torah.
Quran 9:31 says "They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary." What does the verse means? Prophet Muhammad has explained it in hadith. According to a tradition, when Adi bin Hatim (may Allah be pleased with him), who was formerly a Christian, came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) with the intention of understanding Islam, he asked several questions in order to remove his doubts. One of these was: “This verse accuses us of taking our scholars and monks as our lords. What is its real meaning. For we do not take them as our lords.”
As a reply to this, the Prophet (peace be upon him) put him a counter question: “Is it not a fact that you accept as unlawful what they declare to be unlawful, and lawful what they declare to be lawful?” Adi confessed, “Yes, it is so.” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, “This amounts to making them your lords.” Incidentally, this tradition shows that those who themselves set limits to the lawful and the unlawful without the authority of Allah’s Book, assume for themselves the rank of godhead, and those who acknowledge their right of making laws take them as their lords.
Then, who make law beside GOD and Jesus? Of course Paul did it.
Quran 5:41 says, "Among the jews, they are avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah."
It seems quite same with what Paul said in Galatia 1:6-10.
"we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
Since, Paul was jews, he might be the liars.
QS 4:159 says "And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death."
It means, the ones who believe in Jesus before Jesus' death, is among the people of scripture.
Paul didnt believe in Jesus while Jesus alive, so he might be not the people of scripture.
It is my point of view relating Paul according to Quran.
In Matthew 16:18, Jesus choose Peter to built his church, not Paul.
Remember Matthew 7:15-27. Beware !
Paul sounds like the founder of modern politics.
28:58 Didn't come ? Why do you think John wrote "Look, he is coming with the clouds" ? When he wrote about what happened in his time, when Jesus was reviled as the slaughtered Lamb of God ?
Good episode Derek, and Dr. Tabor!
This is amazing!
Titus was also an Israelite he just aquired the customs and traditions of the nation he was borned in.
Yeah!!
Yeah way or Yeah no way. LOL
I'm with Dr. Tabor in his idea that there was an unsolvable schism between Paul, James, and Peter, probably later in Paul's ministry. Remember that according to Luke Acts, Paul went to Rome and spent two years there under 'house arrest', so he was very far away from Jerusalem later in his life, and preached to the Jews in Rome just 3 days after he arrived. These were probably Greek speaking Jews who had more liberal interpretations of the law and Torah, which fit Paul perfectly. Paul saw his mission to be gear toward the Gentiles and appealed to them by softening the requirements to be a follower of Jesus from their Jewish origin into a form that would be appealing to a wider audience. So, once he started his trip to Rome, he likely never visited Jerusalem again or met with James and Peter. His focus now was on getting the Gentiles into the fold.
This is brilliant
if Paul said 'remain in your calling' it would imply that he believed in the covenant obligations. If we take the other quote that Paul really gave a speech before his death when he says, I am a Pharisee, he either was, or he wasn't. Somehow I can't imagine many traditional pharisees denying their covenantal obligations.
Awesome
Coming from Hebert Armstrongs legalistic cult The Worlswide Church of God now defunct and transformed from those shackles… Paul’s letter Galatians is so practical for those who worship now in spirit and truth rather than tradition, form and function. Jesus! Thank you SO much for your servant Paul and like FFH one of these days….I’ll sit with him and learn all the things I didn’t know but through a glass darkly now..
"Acts 15 is accurate..."
Well, there's a first time for everything.
Please listen...I explain and qualify :-)
@@JamesTaborVideos I will have time to listen further tomorrow. I do not think the epistles are letters, I do not think that Paul wrote them all. I think they are a collection of church 'doctrin' put together after the right fact.
Re Acts: the whole of Acts reads like a made up story and was the first example I used in discussions with my uncle The Revenend Michael Massey, when he's was alive....
@@jonathonjubb6626 No problem Jonathan. Ignore my comment. I was assuming certain things in terms of baseline, and then a critical analysis of contents. I qualified my use of the phrase you quote for several minutes after.
There's very little in Acts that's accurate, and Acts 15 & 21 are the most likely to be
Totally disagree with the Professor on any number of issues, but he's always worth a listen.
Could the 'Pauline' statement '...to the Jew I become as a Jew...'
be a vestige of the writings of Simon of Samaria
before Simon and his writings were co-opted by anti-Marcionite christians ?
Sir, I knew a Jim Tabor almost 40 years ago. This gentleman has similar features and way of talking. Did this gentleman send any time on the Gulf Coast? If so he was a friend of my brother in law Chuck. If James is Jim, I would dearly love to get back in touch with him. If it would be ok with you and him.
would like to know after Paul's experience on his way to Damascus her went to Arabia he stayed there for three years what did he do there
He hid in a cave near Mecca and Gabriel appeared to him, saying "Write!", just like he appeared to Muhammad about 600 years later
I have to run to the toilet, but it is two hundred cubits up the road here in Cambodia , but very good.
Have you guys read the Nazarene Acts of the apostles or the Clementine homilies ,also a Syriac version
While I know the issue of full Torah observance was huge in the early church and Paul's ministry was plagued by "judaizers," I would have expected the primary non-starter would have been Christology and the substitutionary death of Jesus for sins. Elsewhere, Tabor indicates those doctrines are missing in non-canonical writings or earlier copies of some gospels, and he says those beliefs weren't held by James and the Jerusalem church. If Paul explained "my gospel" to the leaders of the "Mother Church" on either of the two occasions, how is Christology not a red flag? Even if Paul was less than forthcoming, the same process that brought rumors from the Diaspora would have occurred here. Is Tabor wrong that the Jerusalem church did bot hold to the same view of Christ that Paul did?
I was waiting for a discussion of Paul undergoing a "Nazirite Vow" and admitting to Peter, James and John that he WAS preaching contrary to them. Paul was a bit of a braggart, saying he suffered more floggings, nearer to death, jailed more, than others; that he claimed he was the First Apostle, appointed before his birth. My next comment has nothing to do (or maybe it does) with the conflict between Peter, James, John and Paul: that the "thorn in my side" was all the problems he was having with the Jerusalem leaders and their correcting what they saw as errant teaching. That is my opinion only, not based on anything beyond a wild-assed guess.
Invited to eat and I asked them where the meat came from and then I tell them I'm a vegetarian. Did I get thrown out? Hum!
I always think it interesting that in passages where it asserts Jesus spoke with 'Paul', he never calls him that, only ever Saul.
(Jesus)
Mathew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
(Paul)
1 corinthians 4:15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Catholics call priests Father.😉
@@owlnyc666 your right. Because of Paul
Is Paul in the gospels?it is interesting that Saul who was a Jewish bounty hunter of Christian's who never met Jesus incarnate became one of if not THE Foremost theologian of Christianity.
@@owlnyc666 Paul was not an Apostle. He actually was rejected by the churches in Asia. The Book of Revelation was written to the churches in Asia After Paul was rejected by them.
2 Timothy 2:15 You know that *everyone* in the province of *Asia* has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.
Revelation 1:4 John, To the seven churches in the province of *Asia*: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
Revelation 2:2 I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
If the pharisees were liberals Then Jesus was ULTRA Liberal. I have heard speculation that Jesus a pharisee and a Rabbi.😀
Tabor says that James believed that Jesus was raised from the dead but we don't have any first hand written evidence that James believed that James believed that or taught that.
00:41 by that moment I am suspecting that the stuff is a bunch of nonsense for people that want to feel special and believe they have special knowledge. The music is the kind of techniques used by nonsensical infomercials. I am going to listen and see if it's just bad music selection. 14:19 seems to be wrong or maybe he misspoke, Perter and James di not teach Paul about Jewish traditions, Paul was the educated one. In general the video was good and a testament of not judging the book by its cover. I frankly. disagree with him that Paul and Peter broke off. If we go with Paul confronting Peter it make sense only if Paul knew Peter believed the same of pretty similar to him, but was hiding it.
Ebonite s rejected Paul as a false apostle. They rejected his writings as false doctrine. Their canon was a shorter Aramaic gospel of Matthew.
I’ve been wondering, In revelation who is the 12th judge of the tribes, Matthias or Paul?
Peter, Paul and Mary were always harmonized!
Puff ! The Magic Dragon who lives by the Sea 😅
Didn't Paul say I fooled them with trickery? Game over for me.
You may have missed it but Paul went for 3 years into Arabia where he was taught by Christ. Paul only taught what was revealed to him by the Lord.
You all seem to miss there are no monuments to indicate a Jesus in the first 300 years of archeology strata confirming what history we are told today. What we have is fiction & religious tourism.
Are you high?????
Did I really hear Noahide Laws!? Very revealing...
There are all from God's Words, disciples can talk and preach all by the Grace of God.
Wouldn't his name (James) be Ya'acob? From my own studies, the "v" in modern Hebrew comes from the Ashkenazi who lived in Eastern Europe? I'm definitely open to being wrong, but I've heard it pronounced both ways, with the "b" pronunciation being the more ancient of the two.
Circumcision is over done. Babies are circumsized. The neighborhood throws a big party and a band plays while the baby cries for a couple of hours.It is no big deal. Before sunset the baby is sleeping and tommorow it to s scabbed up. Abraham was 100 yrs old when he was circumsized.What is the problem?
i suppose a case could be made, that, with the parousia ot arriving you could make the argument that Paul's revelations may not be entirely accurate and his understanding of what he understood from these revelations could also be either wrong or deficient.
Why do most paintings depict Paul and the Apostles as old? As for Paul, he was stated as being a "young Pharisee" (probably less than 30 years old), and he served Christ for 14 years.
And paintings of Mary and Joseph being older: Joseph gray-haired and bearded, Mary looking like she was in her 30s...the probability is they were most likely teenagers.
Why didn’t Paul replace Judas and not Mathias , certain rules were not met by Paul?
At 20:40 it gets very interesting, because he explains that Paul was telling Jewish Christian’s they did not need to follow the Jewish laws because the end was near.
This interesting because some of these Jewish Christian’s started to die and it is my understanding that Paul was challenged about this.
it would have been tricky for new gentile believers as having turned their backs on pagan idolatry, they were no longer fish nor fowl. what should a male christ believer do in the early church if they fell in love with an observant jewish believer? Such complex questions are not answered. We have so much missing in terms of context of the very earliest jesus movement apart from the new testament texts. we have little contemporary documents to aid us.
Paul's Gospel he "guarded": until the end. His Gospel, tells him- "there is neither Jew nor greek" at the resurrection, and if that were true , WHY CANNOT THEY ALL THINK OF THEMSELVES graduated from the "SCHOOLMASTER" , but James, stayed in school, And the 'graduated man' had moved on to the freedom in Christ . BUT, I believe, based on his sermons Peter was all in with Paul.. "Believe and be saved " was THE , still today, rejected for being -too good to be true . In the end, salvifically speaking there can be no mixing of works and faith. The engine will never run with oil put in with the gasoline.
Umm...., a lot of engines run by adding the oil into the gasoline.
Love it when you have real scholars like Dr. Tabor on the show … not so much when you don’t, so keep it up. Thanks for a great episode!