Do you think the Philly Shell Works in MMA?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- What’s your opinion on the #PhillyShell Stance? Would you say it works well in #MMA? Dustin Poirier and Cory Sandhagen have both proven it’s effectiveness, but it certainly has an Achille’s heel. Do you think it should be used exclusively for just boxing?
And we don’t even mention how the low-lead arm is advantageous for getting an underhook and stuffing takedowns!
Let’s discuss in the comments below or feel free to join our discussion on the FIGHTTIPS.COM Team Network (2 weeks free access to all courses & community): www.fighttips.com
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![The Problem With The Philly Shell! [ MUST WATCH! ]](/img/n.gif)
The answer is yes.... Source, I got knocked out by a dude who was doing this. I was legitimately confused at his stance, went for what I thought was an opening, and took and wicked ass uppercut. Sucks is I was so out of it, I told the ref I was good, and proceeded to fall for the same thing again less than 30 seconds later. That was the first time I had ever taken an involuntary mat nap.
Yeah I feel like I see punches a lot better being at southpaw already then the fact that I'm in a Philly shell and I don't let people really get with them punching range I keep them at the end of my punches. I don't really duck a whole lot but I keep my hands where they're supposed to be in the Philly shell and I twist my body and it deflects a lot of blows
Firstly it’s not the “philly shell” it’s the Mayweather shell since everyone copies my version of it which is complexity different to the real “PHILLY SHELL.” Secondly it’s doesn’t even work in boxing as 99% of people who try to imitate my style all end up getting knocked out like Andre Berto, Guerrero and Celeb plant. There is only one person who is gifted beyond the capability of the normal human to completely prefect his style and that is MONEY MAYWEATHER! #50-0
Awesome. Great job. Great. Work. Can. I. Join. Too. ? At. The. MMA. ? I. Mam. In. Lacrosse. Wisconsin. Sorry. Can. I. Visit your. MMA. Where your. @. “?
@@floydmoneymayweather8847 quit LARPING you dork
To many disavtanges you never will see
In k1 or glory fighting like that. It’s useless and very ineffective
Bobby Green is one of the best at utilizing the shell in mma.
He also is the best at staying unranked. Just sayin.
@@cjflowers8573 so is everyone but the 10 best in each division. What's your point?
@@ballroomhero85 point is Philly shell hasn't been used by anyone in top of any weight class in mma
But I I agree with your original comment
@@cjflowers8573 4 Oz gloves make it harder to use. It's only used by a handful of boxers.
Sean Strickland just proved it works alright
@@abdennouro8375 your lead hand is low in the Philly shell allowing you to stuff takedowns faster
@@robertchristian2966and defend against kicks
@@coollibra3644 i wouldn’t recommend defending kicks with your hands
at least till his next fight
@@umarb7325 it works against fist. Black fighters have proven this. He is doing 52 blocks a black martial art.
Oh thank God. This question has been bugging the heck out of me for like a year
Firstly it’s not the “philly she’ll” it’s the Mayweather shell since everyone copies my views on of it which is complexity different to the real “PHILLY SHELL.” Secondly it’s doesn’t even work in boxing as 99% of people who try to imitate my style all end up getting knocked out like Andre Berto, Guerrero and Celeb plant. There is only one person who is gifted beyond the capability of the normal human to completely prefect his style and that is MONEY MAYWEATHER! #50-0
@@floydmoneymayweather8847 happy new year money, top lad
@@floydmoneymayweather8847 Shoulder blocking works. Just gotta be smart with it. Adesanya does it all the time.
Check out Bobby green, he kinda uses it
My answer in short: the Philly Shell is good for baiting punches to the head, with the lead shoulder/elbow and rear hand being your shields and head movement being your safest defense.
Plus, we didn't even mention how the lead arm can be used for underhooks to stuff takedowns -- another perk for MMA.
But it certainly has an Achilles heel... especially against a good roundhouse kick.
So what do you think? Worth the bait, or too risky against a good kicker? I can tell you right now that I'd never use the Philly Shell against someone like Superbon or Crocop 😬😵
Does it work?
If you make it work it works 😄
Great video.
Membership: Hi shane i've been wanting to get the membership but i dont know if i need a credit card and if i can take the course if im in mexico and i dont have an usa card. Thank you for the incredible free videos that you make here in youtube and sorry for my english ❤
If it’s a kick can you use the duck?like Floyd
my answer is short. philly shell term came from a video game. its not used in the boxing world at all. no boxing coach calls it a philly shell.
Pin this comment
Ramsey Dewey pointed out another good thing about the Philly shell in mma. If you’re going up against a wrestler and they go for a takedown, it’s easier to defend because you already have an arm lower to the ground and you can go for the under hooks when the wrestler attempts a takedown.
Also, and this is big, jabs from your waist are way harder to see coming.
Yeah you're basically framing any attempt of leg takedowns preemptively.
But if your opponent is good at Muay Thai or kickboxing and throws a roundouse, you could be pretty fucked
@@me0101001000 If you have enough conditioning on that lead leg, you can take it. Or, you can simply move back. Standing more sideways will give you better footwork for in and out movement
If anyone wants to see a well utilized modified Philly in MMA, Dustin Poirer uses it A LOT. He doesn’t use it to set counters as often like boxers but more to negate pressure safely, he flares his elbow on one side where he is in danger of kicks and uses it as the cross guard rather than his hand that’s up high. He doesn’t stand as narrow because kicks, and clinch work well when your hands are too close to the body. He also uses it to pressure sometimes for example he can frame with the flared elbow almost like a battering ram to keep opponents from catching him with desperate shots, and keep them up against the fence without getting clipped when entering the pocket.
I have a very strange interpretation of the shell that has worked very well for me, (southpaw, left eye dominant, right handed), I actually do most of my defense with the elbow of the lead hand. People who spar me say I "block weird" and they have a heck of a time figuring me out, and get caught by strange counters. Overhands are tricky, but combined with the oblique kick for range and a good jab, it seems quite effective.
I'm a southpaw as well but I only box but I have my own interation where I just keep my chin under my right shoulder am I right on right across my rib cage and I hold the phone with my left hand I have a very quick job and I have very quick back and forth speed I think I would be a good fencer . But I catch the jabs with my left hand and I use my feet to just stay out of range and if power shots come I twist my body to the left or right depending on what shot is coming don't really even have to duck alot I just getting range engage get out of range and play defense I don't get hit a lot and if I do it's probably cuz I got lazy or tired or lost focus
Isn’t that what Dustin Poirier does ?
@@someboi4903 similar, yeah. His angles and structures are different, and we do higher angles very differently. Nice to be compared, though haha.
Anderson Silva and Brian Ortega do smililar things
I know exactly what you mean. Dustin Poirier uses that guard too.
Philly Shell has gotta be one of the most interesting guards there is because it's so perfectly designed for boxing. It takes full advantage of the big gloves and nothing below the belt rule and as a result is probably one of the best defensive stances you can take.
philly shells gotta be one of the dumbest names. it came from fightnight. its not a actual name in the boxing world.
@@Teddy-se8qb no idea what fightnight is and considering I've only ever heard boxers use the name "Philly shell" to describe this guard I'mma keep calling it that
@@degiguess please refer to me to any boxing trainer who calls it the philly shell.
@@degiguess riiight. thats why the man who teaches it the best mayweather sr calls it the crab defense taught to him by dale williams.
@@degiguess some call it the shoulder roll. some call it the cross arm. NO ONE CALLS IT THE PHILLY SHELL.
I started doing this in Muay Thai and can’t remember the last time I took a significant strike during sparring even with my instructor. Added to that I constantly switch stances and create combos or distancing off of front/back switches. I believe partially using the Philly shell in mma forces you to learn while improving your parrying/defense and gives you confidence to put your opponent off or bait him into a counter. We’re taught to not practice bad habits or to keep your hands up but I’ve found the most success by fighting the “wrong” ways.
I do this too. I switch stances and guards, and use Philly shell as a transitional guard for either baiting and countering, or hiding the orthodox vs southpaw stance I'll take for the next offensive.
Alot of gyms won't let you experiment though Ive found
Great drill for this, bro! And I found the Philly Shell is a natural fit for ITF Taekwondo. A few friends and I would fight outside on the soccer field of our high school, where I used the bating arm to stop most mid to lowish kicks, and the blocking arm to protect my liver and face. When someone went for my head, I'd use the backward lean of the Philly to throw a variety of kicks. TKD's universal chamber makes it hard to predict where the punishment will come from, since you can go low, mid, or high with each chamber being exactly the same. Wonderboy has some solid defenses against leg kicks even in a bladed stance, so I think those are worth looking into.
Yes, the Philly Shell can also work in MMA at some points, but I believe it's best kept in boxing
cool video! Yeah, Dustin uses the Philly modified... he doesn't use static foot movement like in boxing, rather shifts forward or backward while blading his elbow up, so he ready to counter... kind of like an offensive version of the Philly that lets you stay in the fight while in full guard.
Floyd did something similar to that
Can you do a video on the Peek a Boo or maybe a modified version in MMA as well ?
Everyone agrees that he made our day:
*door smashes open*
D'sean Stickland entered the room
To duck a head kick I’ve seen Cody duck tjs headkick with a Philly shell kinda of defense
Chris Curtis, Bobby Green, Sean Strickland and Dustin Poirer all utilize a variant of the philly shell in MMA beautifully.
Sean Strickland says yes
Firstly it’s not the “philly shell” it’s the Mayweather shell since everyone copies my version of it which is complexity different to the real “PHILLY SHELL.” Secondly it’s doesn’t even work in boxing as 99% of people who try to imitate my style all end up getting knocked out like Andre Berto, Guerrero and Celeb plant. There is only one person who is gifted beyond the capability of the normal human to completely prefect his style and that is MONEY MAYWEATHER! #50-0
But they’re wearing I guess 16oz gloves…I think it will be whole lot of difference if you would wear the mma gloves 4oz.
Before watching the vid...no, it can't, boxing has different rules, which changes how the fighter defends themselves.
The Philly takes movement away(easy takedown or leg kicking target), it relies on ducking or clinching as a last resort and it can't be squared to the opponent(leaves to many openings and isn't a good way to deal with takedowns)
I remember watching Romero failed attempt against Whittaker
I prefer boxing, but I don't think you can compare both sports since the rules and defensive approaches make them extremely different from each other
Edit: What Poirier uses is the Chicken Wing to parry the strikes, there's no shoulder roll involved just parry with the chicken wing and cover up...the Philly uses the right hand to catch and parry the left and wait for the right hand to shoulder roll(which you didn't do in the vid, instead you catched the right with your own right...which makes no sense using this stance over the any other style, since without the shoulder roll, the stance is very weak defensively)
This video aged well.
Here after the Strickland vs adesanya fight..
Nice video there's a UFC fighter named Bobby green who also used the Philly shell
I just saw him fight for the first time I like him
Love ol Bobby. Made me a ton of cash against Al Iaquinta
Also Chris Curtis and Sean Strickland
Robert Whittaker was also using a similar stance
Man you are standing way to wide or square for the Philly shell you wasn’t really tucking your chin behind your lead shoulder either it looked kinda lose it’s gotta be tight
Love your videos bro! Thanks a lot
I think adding a side kick game and a couple of intercepting elbows could add more depth to the style. Wonderboy has an excellent retreating sidekick as an example, and I feel like one could use the lead arm and turn it into a frame for an elbow
ive tried this in mma, and if you shoulder roll a lot you will find that all your weight is placed on the back leg which allows you to check kicks easily
When using his Philly shell,Floyd mayweather also uses a high elbow block from his lead side.
Bill Wallace actually used a Philly Shell style stance when he was kickboxing. Although leg kicks weren't legal when he was fighting, he has stated that the moment he saw someone trying to kick his front leg he would just lean back getting his head out of range, lift the lead leg and counter attack with it. A good side kick to the opponents mid section while they're attempting the leg kick would do it. When I did Tae Kwon Do when I was younger I would do a sort that if a cross between a front kick and a roundhouse kick that would come up at a 45 degree angle and catch my opponents right in the gut knocking the wind out of them. It comes in low enough that it's below their eye line and because it's coming in straighter than a roundhouse it's faster than one. One final note is that if you read the Tai of Jeer Kune Do this of the stance Bruce Lee recommended since you can use that lead arm to protect your groin. I myself use s conventional stance and use my lead lead to protect my groin by lifting it and turning slightly so that don't attempted groin strikes land on the side of my thigh.
Look up Bobby green, perfect example
dude if you stand like that you get taken down instantly
0:09 Skyrim NPC: Hey you’re finally awake
It will always depend on your opponent, it might work, it might not. Kicks are a threat, but the leaning back leaves you horribly open to takedowns. People who set up takedowns with strikes will have your number
I found that the big weakness of the shell in mma is leg kicks. Gotta be careful not to carry too far over or be predictable because one chop puts you down. Like Shane said, it's very bladed.
Gotta keep distance.
@@nutta646 if you're in range for a punch to Philly roll.... you are likely not getting out range of a follow up kick. Unless you mean to avoid the situation all together, but the point is using philly roll
Philly Shell is really good for a reason that most people didn't really think about : it negates clinching attempt entirely. That hand down low will turn into the underhook for you right instant while your shoulder serve as a barrier to block all kind of hooks from people wants to clinch up with you. Perfect weapon against Thai guys that love clinch fighting, boxers that want to stall and DK Yoo's hug of death
agree, i used this in my mma sparring, close range very useful, when my thai fd clinch me is easier become 50/50, i think most important is we need to change stance when the range is different, and prevent low kick, oblique kick, claf kick
It can at perfect range where you can get you’re opponent to a point where he’s to close to kick but to far to grapple maybe back them to the cage and do it I know it’s more a defensive bait but in MMA I defo use it using that range info and if they grapple they still have the cage behined them also parry a lot to take there attention away from a take down to force them to block or they will get hit
Dustin just got KOed with a head kick using this defence he forgot this is MMA 😂
People get ko with regular guard too
Dustin Poirer does the Philly shell beautifully in his fights
Mark Hunt used it a lot for underhooks. I like it for setting up cross collar frames.
I use it in Muay Thai sparring as a transitional setup for counters. Like Shane says, it's great for baiting. Go into Philly shell, bait the cross or kick, drop shift and throw a combo. That said, if sparring someone who can read you, it's one time use only because they won't go for it again, but it's a nice trick to have up the sleeve.
I do kickboxing, and I would say that i use a hybrid style. I like to use the philly shell stance and defense for a lot of the same reasons explained, but i switch between philly, orthodox defense, and using my jab hand as a probe and a post. I test it a lot in sparring, and try to change it as soon as someone starts to look for counters.
2:52 my old coach has a very similar story. Philly Shell is great until head kicks start coming into the fight. Your instinct to roll your shoulder won't stop a head kick.
It works. My sparring partners use it on me.
From a South paw stance?
Sup
I think it works in punching range no matter what sport or style
You just have to have a different game plan for kicking range and be able to adjust.
But if they close in on you and you get stuck in the pocket, Philly Shell is OP to defend yourself until you can escape
In MY opinion, long guard for range fighting moments, and Philly Shell for infighting moments. I try to be well versed in both
Just watched the intro, the right hand that stays glued to the face, can't you move that over to the other side of your face and bring your shoulder/elbow up to block the head kick? I'm new so there's no way I'm correct someone who boxes pls tell me why that wouldn't work.
Bobby Green and Dustin Poirier seem to really like it. 🤷♂️
YES! I love this concept. I'm a South Paw fighter trying to get Phili shell to work in mma. I've found some success using the stance for bating openings for take downs.
My favorite stance hahaha
Perfect style devolved by George Benton in the 1950's .... used by Bernard Hopkins and James Toney, perfected by Money TMT Mayweather. As a south paw I am a fan of the philly shell.
No... MMA gloves are too small... You can't block MMA gloves with your gloves like you can with boxing gloves.
Hey I have a question for you guys I am a Southpaw but I happen to use the Philly shell I have been doing a lot of reading and they say that you probably shouldn't use the Philly shell as a southpaw because of your liver being open but if your hands are in the right place that is not a problem and I fight mostly mid to long range I am 6 foot 1 I walk around 190 but when it's time to box I go light heavyweight what do y'all think
Granyed the Philly Shell will keep your liver-side (right side) more protected, but that's not to say your opponent cant get around your elbow or slip your jab to hit your liver.
A stiff jab, proper lead-hand fighting, and sharp left hands should keep them hesitant and fearful of dropping to hit your body. Whether your in a Philly Shell, high guard, or something else, it all depends on your strategy and style.
For instance, maybe you go "High Guard" to bait them to punch your liver... once they do, you counter with a left straight or uppercut.
Don't think about what your opponent can do to you, think about how you can trick them into doing what you WANT them to do.
@@fighttips thanks that was very enlightening
Isn't a southpaw with really good lead right hook very dangerous, I kinda feel it'll be awkward to throw that in philly cuz your right hand is below and how's the dynamic of defense for you in philly as a southpaw... I would like to think that southpaws being aggressive is much more easier since you easily eat up the space of orthodox boxer who's not use to fighting southpaws and most of their reaction when you throw is to step back... and you can just blaze forward and land your straight. and their headmovements would have to adjust to you meanwhile you already know how they place their heads instinctively.
Never stand in a Philly shell if you are in a opposite stance to your opponent
@@imadethistoleavecomments6518 lol who me 🤣🤣
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Probably good against the fence, let off shots and go for underhooks if grappling starts. Out in the open, can really be taken apart against a good kicker...*unless*. maybe you pair it with sideways kicks from other martial arts karate/taekwondo?..I mean you're already in the sideways stance. Side kicks like wonderboy or Cung lee. Give yourself room,throw opponents rhythm off?
Bobby green is a prime example of it
Someone watching this after Sean Strickland dethroned Adesanya with de Philly Shell?????
"When I'm coaching my fighters" 0:33. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!
boxing style is made for boxing, that’s why mma fighters come in with a disadvantage
Also, it'd be fun to watch you and vince do some light contact MMA sparring.
Everything works in mma and nothing works in mma. That is the thing that makes it so hard. The philly shell like anything has its place for some people, although it has many flaws. In boxing when used properly and by the real skilled fighters like Floyd it's almost impenetrable, not quite but almost, but it has many more openings in mma. But like everything it's a matter of the time, place and practitioner. Everything works at certain times for certain people in certain places.
But I will say the philly shell if used even at it's best, cannot be used entirely in mma. A haven't watched the video yet so I don't know if I've said anything that is said in the video, I'm just saying my view. I did see on the video while auto playing that the obvious opening is the head kick and that is something to me that is obviously something that is a problem. But there are many more. I will watch the video and see what is said.
Edit
Just watched the video and I agree, maybe it works. But that is everything in mma. It's much better for boxing though, boxing gloves are big and much easier to catch and parry.
Should probably train with smaller gloves and go light (should go light almost always imo, heavy sparring has its place but certainly not a lot, brain cells will go either way, but best to keep as many for real fights than lose them all in the gym) if you're training mma for defense techniques though, cos those small gloves are pretty poor at catching punches, especially if you train with massive 16's or something. What you catch with a 16 ounce glove you will get cracked with a 4 ounce glove. It's hard to even shell up conventionally with the small gloves, most punches can get through easily if you don't get your head off the centre line and keep it moving. The hand blocks in mma should really be one of the last resorts, unlike in boxing where it can be one of the first or best defenses. Head movement and head position will always be the best defence, along with fakes and feints and attacks. And footwork is such a massive part, distance management. But yeah, anything can work in mma, and nothing works in mma.
The phili shell was only tought for boxing matches, but for MMA it needs to modified for kicks.
Poatan cracked Sean Stricklands Philly shell. Gaenthje cracked DPs.
Sir ap boxing ya Karate academy kholne me kitne paise lagenge pure TH-cam me ye video nhi hai please sir
Watch Bobby Green fight, and you'll know: Yes. It does work.
But you need to be skilled with it..
Incorrect maidana was countering Floyd's pull counter not the Philly shell. I am guessing most can't get to work because it advance boxing skill you need to master the fundamentals to get it to work.
What about clinch defense? I should ask my Muay Thai friends, but honestly if they get you, the guy philly shelling seems exposed to a big elbow.
If you fight sideways like Superfoot Wallace then yes.
Grinding the workouts
Sean strickland just beat izzy with a modified version of this style.
No. Leg kicks would be there all day. And if you were prone to leaning one way the whole fight, especially off a jab or straight, you would run right into a set-up head kick.
Porier and Green have both used the shoulder roll/philly shell successfully. Dustin becoming a much more complete striker after learning and using it
I have boxing friends that have started muay thai. And the philly shell isnt the greatest choice. Leg kicks and sweeps are available to your opponent without any set up.
Philly shell doesn’t work because of leg kicks if I see my opponent do a Philly shell I’ll just jab to angle outside then leg kick they can’t check that very well!
Filly shell good work in kick boxing, is it effective against grappler, i didn't know
No because the balance you need leaves you way too open to leg kicks. You also aren't going to hand trap or shoulder roll shots coming with 4 oz gloves as easily. I will say Dustin Poirer uses a hybrid style of it but mostly when it seems he's trying to disengage.
That blocking technique only works in boxing 😂.
If you’re fighting anybody with a decent roundhouse kick you’re going to sleep holding your hands like that
Work's for me and I haven't lost yet :)
It is better to have philly shell than none at all. If the shell works against punches then that's it; and if it does not work against a kick then do something better. but surely the Philly shell works in MMA.
Probably works for Dustin because he and most of the guys he fights barely kick they all like to box in the ufc even in mma rules
Well also the philly shell is more effective in boxing with bigger padded gloves Dustin porrier does a great job with some other mma fighters but it is harder to pull off.
very impressive video, i like this!
Dustin uses what I like to call the mma shoulder roll where the elbow comes out
Biggest downside of the philly shell in mma IMHO is it leaves you way open to leg kicks to ur lead leg
Sean strickland out strike israel adesaya with the Philips shell defense🤯🤯🤯
Thanks for all you do Shane and Vince. Happy new year and can’t wait to see what’s in store for fight tips in 2022
Would the phlly shell work with kyokushin style of fighting?
Nah. You would have to be a beast to use it successfully. Front leg looks open all day if you shove a glove in their face. But its possible.
Ramsey Dewey had an interesting perspective on it for MMA, where he recommended using it for getting underhooks.
I love philly shell in mma, i can defend my head with my right, and body with the left. i can even defend kicks with my hands sometimes
Depends who’s using it. a pro with alot of fights or a guy like you with a couple?
The Philly shell only works for me when I pivot otherwise it's just a cushion
I like how dustin uses a mix between the philly shell and 52 blocks to cover more weaknesses
I’d say yes but you have to be really good cause it leaves you open. The only one I know who can legit get away with it consistently is Bobby green
philly shell works fine, until you block a hard punch with the shoulder and break your shoulder
It definitely can work
Tried it. Imo not the best for blocked kicks and flurries are scary to deal with😂
Nick with the Stockton Shell elbow against Spider
I found that if someone is teeing off on you, u get tht philly shell up, the punches stop connecting and they gotta reset. Yes i am one of those philly shell douchebags now