Don't see a lot of talk about Von Ryans Leapers in Final Day but for 70pts, 10pts more than a lictor you get a good unit to share the buff with, fights first and free heroic to babysit Rockgrinders
Wrathful Procession is my pick! It's not an A+ detachment but it is significantly more powerful than the community has decided. Solid for casual and mid table play.
If you build into it with Outriders, Van Vets, Sternguard and Crusader blobs led by the obligatory Grimaldus it's pretty decent. Where it really falls short is in the stratagem department. There are really only 2 strats that are okay at best, one being the nerfed Armour of Contempt and the other being re-roll 1's and ignore mods in melee. Meh. That's pretty pathetic when you look at the Tau Auxiliary Cadre and EVERY strat is a banger!
@trentathawat6714 I ran a really successful game with it into WE. The 3" engagement range Strat is way more impactful than you'd expect. Suddenly, basing with chaff won't protect you against FF, and you can get full output from 10x SB or 20x crusaders easily. I ran lots of SB because they don't rely on strats for their damage output. The extra 3" on an advance move made staging super easy. Definitely some dud strats though.
Real quick question to bring up in an FAQ. All the enhancements, army rules, and abilities that make you immune to Overwatch specifically call out the Fire Overwatch stratagem. Thronegheist Fury stratagem from the Questor Forgepact does the same things as Fire Overwatch but is not Fire Overwatch, so by the rules would go through. It has, however, caused some spirited disagreements at my local tables and if you guys got any pull can we have a clarification if the rules had intended to cover other like abilities to Fire Overwatch or just that specific general stratagem?
It may not be that great, but getting the stars to align with Lion’s blade feels pretty good. The “move through terrain” strat for bikes is huge, and the “counter charge” can be super impactful too if you budget for it (easier to do if you’ve got Azrael sitting back and farming cp all game)
My Deathwatch army went unbuilt for a year while I waited to see what was happening. Now, after them being iced, then defrosted, I'm worried they're so strong, they'll be nerfed hard, before I have them built. If they get hit too hard, player rates will likely drop again and we're back in the same situation. However, being super strong will generate a lot of interest l, so if they only get tweaked, the popularity could persist. Maybe they could just bump up the termi cost, a little, or even better, cost them based on number of heavies (gw hinted at some wargear costs), or have the number of duplicate weapons informed by squad size i.e. 10-man unlocks triple cyclone...?
I mean Deathwatch is always tricky to build for because they seem to change their wargear and killteam rules constantly. So I think if you get too caught up about when the best time is to build you’ll probably be stuck waiting and not make any progress on the army. Magnets are an option, although magnetizing infantry can obviously be annoying.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. What makes Deathwatch good right now is the stratagems now finally working with other weapons beyond the basic bolters and having a decent detachment rule with decent enhancements. Deathwatch Terminators have been around since the first index and nobody really cared, the advantage of Deathwatch is filling out the rest of the army with good Codex Space Marine units when they pick up the kill teams they need and the fact that other options have been nerfed. If old Gladius was around no one would care about the Deathwatch update.
My only complaint about Deathwatch is how crippling it is trying to get nine Cyclone Missle Launchers without buying nine boxes of Terminators or printing.
Iirc one of the enhancements allows a double oath once per game though I’m trying to recall the original version from the index so it might have been altered slightly since originally it was the old oath with full rerolls. Edit: Just checked, it is currently 30pts for a once per game double oath but unlike Guillimans you don’t have to kill the first to get the buff on the second
I mean probably lord of change with pyrogenesis using a flux token, gets to S13 AP-3. The neverblade on either winged prince or LoC also make for good tankbusters, reaching S13 and S12 respectively with flux pyro
FWIW, and I’m just an average Joe, I think Warhorde is better, but not strictly better, than Brigade. I think you give up what makes Orks crippling for consistency and combined arms and more damage outside of the waaagh. But man, does warhorde waaagh freakin SLAP and can just win a game
Don't see a lot of talk about Von Ryans Leapers in Final Day but for 70pts, 10pts more than a lictor you get a good unit to share the buff with, fights first and free heroic to babysit Rockgrinders
Lol at Nurgle Daemons getting a shoutout, lets go. 27:25
Great to have you back, guys!
What an absolute unit of an Xmas 40k holiday this has been, Chat +! 🎉
Wrathful Procession is my pick! It's not an A+ detachment but it is significantly more powerful than the community has decided. Solid for casual and mid table play.
If you build into it with Outriders, Van Vets, Sternguard and Crusader blobs led by the obligatory Grimaldus it's pretty decent. Where it really falls short is in the stratagem department. There are really only 2 strats that are okay at best, one being the nerfed Armour of Contempt and the other being re-roll 1's and ignore mods in melee. Meh. That's pretty pathetic when you look at the Tau Auxiliary Cadre and EVERY strat is a banger!
@trentathawat6714 I ran a really successful game with it into WE. The 3" engagement range Strat is way more impactful than you'd expect. Suddenly, basing with chaff won't protect you against FF, and you can get full output from 10x SB or 20x crusaders easily.
I ran lots of SB because they don't rely on strats for their damage output. The extra 3" on an advance move made staging super easy.
Definitely some dud strats though.
I think people are sleeping on Vessels of Wrath because they think World Eaters can't win without Angron.
They can.
Real quick question to bring up in an FAQ. All the enhancements, army rules, and abilities that make you immune to Overwatch specifically call out the Fire Overwatch stratagem. Thronegheist Fury stratagem from the Questor Forgepact does the same things as Fire Overwatch but is not Fire Overwatch, so by the rules would go through. It has, however, caused some spirited disagreements at my local tables and if you guys got any pull can we have a clarification if the rules had intended to cover other like abilities to Fire Overwatch or just that specific general stratagem?
Thanks John and Seigs
It may not be that great, but getting the stars to align with Lion’s blade feels pretty good. The “move through terrain” strat for bikes is huge, and the “counter charge” can be super impactful too if you budget for it (easier to do if you’ve got Azrael sitting back and farming cp all game)
My Deathwatch army went unbuilt for a year while I waited to see what was happening. Now, after them being iced, then defrosted, I'm worried they're so strong, they'll be nerfed hard, before I have them built. If they get hit too hard, player rates will likely drop again and we're back in the same situation. However, being super strong will generate a lot of interest l, so if they only get tweaked, the popularity could persist. Maybe they could just bump up the termi cost, a little, or even better, cost them based on number of heavies (gw hinted at some wargear costs), or have the number of duplicate weapons informed by squad size i.e. 10-man unlocks triple cyclone...?
I mean Deathwatch is always tricky to build for because they seem to change their wargear and killteam rules constantly. So I think if you get too caught up about when the best time is to build you’ll probably be stuck waiting and not make any progress on the army.
Magnets are an option, although magnetizing infantry can obviously be annoying.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. What makes Deathwatch good right now is the stratagems now finally working with other weapons beyond the basic bolters and having a decent detachment rule with decent enhancements. Deathwatch Terminators have been around since the first index and nobody really cared, the advantage of Deathwatch is filling out the rest of the army with good Codex Space Marine units when they pick up the kill teams they need and the fact that other options have been nerfed. If old Gladius was around no one would care about the Deathwatch update.
The real question: Can a list with the new artillery fire stealth shells win a GT with 2-3 Baneblade chasis' with stealth?
"Votann is all about accounting"
Irregular accounting is a grudgin!
@@ArtofWar40k Tax loophole detachment coming soon? 🤔🧐
I really want to hear someone talk about deathwatch kill teams under firestorm assault force
My only complaint about Deathwatch is how crippling it is trying to get nine Cyclone Missle Launchers without buying nine boxes of Terminators or printing.
I've blagged horus heresy vehicle havok launchers. Works a treat
Question about the deathwatch detachment. You keep mentioning double oath but isnt that Guillimans ability? Can you even run gbaby in this detachment?
Iirc one of the enhancements allows a double oath once per game though I’m trying to recall the original version from the index so it might have been altered slightly since originally it was the old oath with full rerolls.
Edit: Just checked, it is currently 30pts for a once per game double oath but unlike Guillimans you don’t have to kill the first to get the buff on the second
@@Johnnymarzo Tome of Ectoclades allows it once per game
Played a 1k pt game against a friend last week. I took Tatikal Brigade, we called it after 1 turn. That is a mean detachment
40k is grossly broken at 1k so it's not a good indicator of a detachments power level, or even individual units
Tzeentch while janky seems strong, though I don’t know how they would crack 2+ T12
I mean probably lord of change with pyrogenesis using a flux token, gets to S13 AP-3. The neverblade on either winged prince or LoC also make for good tankbusters, reaching S13 and S12 respectively with flux pyro
FWIW, and I’m just an average Joe, I think Warhorde is better, but not strictly better, than Brigade. I think you give up what makes Orks crippling for consistency and combined arms and more damage outside of the waaagh.
But man, does warhorde waaagh freakin SLAP and can just win a game
Final day harder shooting than Host of Ascension?