Misfire, weak spark, 2 years after coil replacement 94 Toyota Celica (part 1)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- This engine is showing us weak spark, intermittently, on only 1 cylinder (single ignition coil design). Join my son Caleb and I as we test this system. (cylinder drop test, spark output test, secondary ignition waveform analysis on a lab scope)
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Related videos:
Ignition System Operation & Testing - (No Spark Toyota Celica)-Part 1
• Ignition System Operat...
Ignition System Operation & Testing - (No Spark Toyota Celica)-Part 2
• Ignition System Operat...
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Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.
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Treasure these moments with your son. I can still recall the moments I spent with my dad working on cars.
Danner i can watch your videos day inn and out and never get tired watching someone that takes the time to teach without taking short cuts to fix the problems...
WIN: "Whats he doing with an inspection mirror in his car??? Thats my inspection mirror!!"
LOL that was awesome, thanks again Mr Danner.
I just diagnosed a broken center carbon brush in a 1998 Corvette distributor cap: no RPM signal, no ref signal to ECM, no injector pulse, intermittent spark. The little nub was literally bouncing around under the cap like a bolt that falls out your pocket in the washing machine.
Stay gold.
Great video. I had a 1988 Toyota Camry with a 3S-FE engine with ignition problems. It started with a distributor O-ring leak (easy fix), then it started missing really bad. I did a resistance check on the coil and it was out of spec. Got a new coil and for a good measure bought new Autolite plug wires/cap and rotor. Ran good for awhile, but then started missing again. When I pulled the spark plug boot, it came off!
Bought OEM plug wires and the problem finally went away (the misfire problem at least). It ran really good, but after a several months, I noticed there was oil still leaking from the distributor and engine getting worse. Checked the O-ring again (fine), what I found was that the oil was leaking internally through the distributor. So I bought another used distributor. It was a trouble free car other than the ignition system. Sold the car after several years after that.
Later, I bought a 2000 Camry with a similar 5S-FE engine. Toyota redesigned the ignition system. The distributor was replaced with coil packs and the plugs were now dual-tipped platinums. Drove that car for 16 years, only changed plugs at recommended intervals. Never had any ignition system issues whatsoever.
Nice to see i'm not the only one that needs multiple takes 😂
Scanner Danner, Diagnose Dan, and Daniel Diagnostics? I sense a theme here (illuminatti comfirmed!)
Have that little uscope as well love it. And sometimes don't need to pull out the big guns. Great video.
It’s a Toyota that’s why it was still running! I love my toyos
Hope Jake is doing well in college!! Great call with the distrub cap, but wow what a find! Thanks for video Paul and Caleb!!!
My first car was a '94 Celica. But mine was black. I shouldn't have ever gotten rid of that thing!
Back in the 80's I had a 1972 Celica. It was, get this, rear wheel drive. Fun car!
I bought a new 455 Olds in 1971. Shortly thereafter, on cold/cool mornings (I left it parked outside), it would backfire, spit, miss until it warmed up. Took it to the dealer, left it over night (they put it inside their shop) went back they said they couldn't find anything. Next time it did it, I opened the hood and noticed a tiny film of moisture on the outside of the distributor cap. Took the cap off, sprayed it with WD-40 and no miss, no backfire. Went to the parts store and bought a new distributor cap. Left the old one outside the next night, and looked at the inside the next morning and there were a couple of hairline cracks in the cap noticeable only because the moisture left a track on the cracks! Wiped it dry and I could not see the cracks. If it can happen, it will happen (to me).
I had a similar ordeel with an old ford electronic ignition control module when they used to sit on the fender. On really hot days or cool nights with a lot of condensation, it spit and sputtered like you mentioned. A few times it just shut down until it cooled off.
We didn't have access to all the fancy scopes back in the 80s but a friend was smart enough to set a heat lamp about 3 feet away from it while the motor was idling. It caused the problem to surface in a out 5 minutes and I replaced it from a salvaged car. Problem solved.
Of course the module was packed with epoxy so a teardown was not informative and what little inspection we could do showed nothing obvious.
@@sumduma55 Yep. Jeep used the same on my 1977 CJ5! Really threw me for a loop first time it did it. Finally put a 6 cyl Chev distributor in it with coil in cap. Stopped that BS.
This is some awesome father / son time. Your sons will never forget get this. Another awesome video.
Nice find. I remember the old days, I installed a lot of those distributors, no matter what Scotty Kilmer says, they break too.
(Dielectric grease is great on plug boots to help reduce leakage and help with later removal. I’ve seen connectors with it glopped in them causing issues, stop it guys, a little goes a long way to stop fretting and reduce moisture intrusion.)
Ever since you worked on my car....That makes me try harder to do it right the first time more than anything else. I'm not going to hear anything when when it goes right, but I'll hear plenty when it goes wrong.
LMAO at Caleb. "You're such a diva." You guys keep coming up with stuff I can always think would be a good ring tone.
"Ever since you......." Doesn't that suck! Especially with totally unrelated stuff.
@@volvo09 it really does! and for this one, I would NOT have believed the customer, yet the customer would have been right
This video is really nice I love the missfires when uses the osciloscope. Thanks for another great class
I like the small scope it's on my list. I have the pico but that is so handy.
Enjoy the way you reason the situation.
Thanks again for the video
That's definitely a new one! I never saw a pickup coil, even the early GM HEI units that were on carburated engines and the Dist pickup coil wires would break at the ign module because of the vacuum advance moving the plate.
Finallyyyyy another video. Definetly worth the wait for sure :)Thank you so much :) Really strange fault this one,and supercool seeing how you went on about it ,as usual. "Haaaarrryyyyyy ,your hands are freeeeeeezing!! CLASSIC movie right there :) Happy new year by the way if i havent said so already at some point :) Greetings from the CarViking in Norway, Stefan :)
Yep same thing happen to me. I was tuning up a vehicle that required the intake to be removed. Didnt even make it block for the misfires started occurring. Brought it back and of course no spark on one cylinder.
Fantastic case study and an interesting find. I can't wait for part two.
good old toyota keeps going no matter what
Really cool car i think that every time u do a video on it,great video as always thank u gentlemen
We bought a 89 Camry from a little ole lady that had very low miles, it only went out on Sundays to church well unless she was from Pasadena then maybe the strip. Some time after we bought it my son tells me it's shifting out of overdrive and he tells me that he just leaves the button for OD off. I figure maybe it's the clutch in the torque converter that is going and maybe with a change of ATF it might help with it shifting. We drain the trans, replace the filter, and put some ATF in and run it with the output line to the radiator in a clear mayonnaise jar so I can see the color of the fluid and we also flush out the torque converter. Now my son says it shifting great again but a short time later complains that it's doing it again. So now I take it for a ride and tell him it's not a problem with the trans he has a misfire. Sometimes in OD it would lug the engine and that's when it would misfire. So I look at the plugs and they could use a change and I find one of the wires is the culprit. Not wanting to work on this car for at least another year I put wires cap and rotor in. The cap was dirty, a bit oily and there was some carbon tracing. Okay fixed Wright I mean right. Yeah for another three months or so it ran flawlessly till my son comes home one day and says it's doing it again. Dang. Turns out the seal in the distributor was allowing oil into the cap and on rainy days or when there was dew on the ground it would misfire. So I replaced the distributor and it's been a year of good service. Knock on wood. Professor to Caleb, I gotta deal with your sh I mean stuff too. Wait til they get married and move out. They figure they earned the right to free storage. Around 34 minutes ya say there was oil in the old distributor. Ya stole my thunder. That's my story and I'm sticking two it. Good ten minute video guys.
Good old Toyota. Even with broken parts they still run. Lol great video
Awesome man. Nothing like working on your own stuff at home and getting the run around with intermittents lol. I feel your pain.
Oh yea.... Needed some more in-depth understanding of this issue. I got a 20yr Taurus with this issue. Just hit 400,000 last week! 💪 Changed out the spark plugs, wires, and coil pack. Drives good, not really noticable....but as soon as i hit those rpms above 3000, CEL pops on...
Btw, Caleb the Cameraman, you're doing an "impeccable" job with that camera and especially paying attention because of your questions 💪. So i guess the next step will be putting Pop behind the camera and giving us a ScannerCal episode 🤘😊...
Thanks for the video y'all....
Wow! 400 k!
Original motor transmission?
@@MitzvosGolem1 yes sir-ree! I've babied it the past 2yrs... They call the engine Vulcan... Darn near replaced everything on this engine - original timing chain still in it too; that's my next project...
@@NaturalZBey wow I got 370 k on my Chevy Venture original motor transmission.
Only minor issues.
Runs perfectly uses no oil.
Scanner diva Danner - funnest line ever ,
love watching these video, your an inspiration ;-)
reminds me of pre-1975 GM distributor cap carbon tracks, old timers will remember
Excellent about silicone grease.. true.
It just seals moisture out and prevents corrosion.
Not a conductor.
Stabilant 22 is a conductor improvement chemical used in avionics but costs $70 a tiny 1 oz bottle.
We had "carbon tracking" inside caps in old days after some one would spray wd40 oil inside Burning up causing carbon tracks misfire etc...
Excellent work Thanks!
I miss you so much you are the best in the world
A magic trick using a distributor! First I've seen of that! 😂🤣😂
That was an interesting failure! Wonder if play in the shaft wore out that coil's case? Since you've got both heat and age there, it could've just cracked on its own, too. That car is in amazing shape for its age. Hate to see him driving it in road salt ... but I get it - when I was that age, I could barely afford the car I had, let alone a dedicated 3-season car, and a winter car.
Way behind on vids here - headed to part 2 now. 👍🍻
My brother has the same engine in a 1990 Corolla SR5 I think it is really close to 400k miles. That is crazy how the secondary wire got bound up like that maybe it got pinched by the rotor and then unwound.
Awesome video!!! Just goes to show why you should always test and not just replace a part. 👍👍
This is insane, my '95 Celica GT has been running awkwardly and this video seems to be dealing with exactly what I have been with lately. Infect timing
*Scotty Kilmer has entered the chat*
* incoherent rambling *
I think he was the one “dislike” 😄
He put the copper wire in there to help fix the lost spark...
Awesome lecture👍 Thank you soo much for explaining this fault & in-depth analysis
Stay Blessed😎
Danner: "How is this thing even running?"
A: it's a Toyota
(I was thinking the same thing though)
You'll see in the second video why this thing was still running :-)
@@ScannerDanner saturn. 2004. Ion. 2.2
And that makes Scotty Kilmer is right about his choice of automobile.... ha ha
My 2 shirts came in love em. 💪💪💪
Haha. Totally sold out his brother. "There's shot glasses in here!!" Ha
his brother is old enough :-)
But why IN the car??
@@HouseCallAutoRepair probably because he never took them out of the car. I know one of them was one I bought for him when we were in Aruba. Thanks for your concern, he's definitely not doing shots while driving lol
@@ScannerDanner I would hope he isn't doing shots while driving. You end up spilling it all over the place. Better to just take a swig straight from the bottle.
However, if a cop sees them on a traffic stop or something, it is just a hassle not worth participating in.
😂😂
Father and son time... more priceless than anything......great video as always....how the h*** was that car running, as well as it was at that!
spoiler alert, the reason it was still running was that pick-up coil was for the single pulse "cam signal", which is not needed for it to run and control spark. For injection control without that signal, it will still fire them, just in a default strategy
This is why I grab my scope first on misfires before I touch anything. I hate fixing the problem before I can prove it
I would love see a video on secondary spark...Dan thank you
Have to love the non-common weird root causes. Essentially it looks like it fail just like the water pump probably did. Bearings or bushings wore causing shaft wobble and leakage, in this case oil and also slapping the coil around.
“How is it even running at all?” Paul you just vindicated Scotty about Toyota’s
NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Never vindicate Scotty. If you have to then lie instead. :P
if tape and a coat hanger can get it running then Scotty is your man.
Wow I’m surprised the thing was even running to, that is a testament to Toyotas reliability, and never underestimate the power of the visual inspection
Funny you mention the dielectric grease being an insulator and not a conductor . Had a coworker who was very very back woods mechanic type and disregarded any repair info research as "not being a real mechanic" . He would pack every connector he opened to replace components with it and because of that have regular comebacks . Despite how many times I fixed his mistakes simply by blasting out all the dielectric grease he would never believe me when I would tell him to stop using it in connectors that host sensor circuit pins .
I'm amazed that it even ran with that coil pickup
Hi Paul, just found this video, regarding a car from end of last century, LMAO.
Must admit, it is still very actual though, and very vell presented (as always), really enjoy watching your movies.
I have a few Q´s:
The references in this video, are they valid for your latest e-book "Engine Perf... Diagn..."?
Do You have a link to your very fist youtube session?
Regards
Gremling
i was right i was thinking about the distributor or coil happened on my 1988 toyota corolla
Interesting video! We are waiting for the second part - fixed!
Toyota is perhaps the most reliable brand.
For a resident from Russia, it is not clear what you are heating with wood?
I look with interest, Denis!
Does your wife bust your chops about cleaning the back yard? Lol, my wife would make me sleep under that deck. Great vid. Thanks
For sure, but in my defense we just had a rear deck roof put on right before the snow started flying, so I'm good until spring 😂
"Dialectric Grease is an insulator" I was at a local hardware store a while back looking for conductive grease, and the sales staff kept handing me Dialectric grease. I told them it was an insulator, but they wouldn't believe me.
Stabilant 22 is conductor chemical used in avionics and Marine electronic and at home Depot they have white conductive grease used on splices in primary secondary connect. In electrical Dept.
True silicone grease only stops corrosion not a conductor.
Use Copper Never Seize, we used it in resistance welding and if your careful it works great on relay pins in an old corroded auto fuse box.
@@frankl1955 yes I have excellent salt water marine battery cables copper anti seize the best .
@boostedsil40 keeps water out stops corrosion. Ok to use.30-50k volts in secondary ignition will not be affected.
Next time just tell them to look up the word "dielectric" in the dictionary
Love your channel. You are a wealth of info and diagnostic technique. Gotta ask a question though, once you realized you had an intermittent problem, why not just pull the cap off? I don’t know what the parts prices are, but I’d have just sprung for a cap, rotor and wires. Of course, once I opened it up and saw the oil and wire in there I would have realized I had a bigger problem.
Good question! For me, my diagnostic strategy is sometimes altered by the camera. I want to prove the issue for you guys before taking stuff apart.
Time to let your son do the work. And he can keep asking questions until he gets it. I'm other words a real school environment. Not just dad say hold the camera, he must have that with a passion.
Great one-liners Caleb("rookie mistake", "diva")...LOL!
Love the outtakes
@scannerdanner Could you put up a video on your website explaining how to use the pocket scope? Functions, set up, etc.. please it would help out a great deal
No quick vid for you. now for the polar opposite of your situation. I stopped to look at a malfunctioning brake light on a 14 Hyundai a few days ago. determined quite quickly that it was some sort of loss of ground and it was dim, energizing through other side of bulb a 2357, which is a lower current version of the 1157.(technically a LONG circuit, yes they exist. where 2 circuits converge in the form of a ground, loss of ground bridges 2 circuits together to ground through each other generally limiting the current like a resistor). It was dark and raining and i wasnt having it. I postponed it until today jan 25, 20, made sure i had my Vantage pro, my power probe pp3, incandescent test light and as a hail Mary my Power Probe ECT3000. Test light and a stick to jam the brake pedal, 10 minutes, and i had it pinned down. Bad socket. Thats the flip side of your situation.
My son's call me a dumbass, but never a diva. SAVAGE!
Thank you for this video SD.
Thanks for of course another good video! I have a question though about you saying to check the plug wire with the scope at close to the coil??? I would say you would want to check it close to the spark plug! Like you said-if there was break in the wire in the middle then at the coil it may show that it is firing but it matters the most at the plug. That is where you want to make sure you have voltage/spark/? If you dont show a reading there, then work backwards toward the coil. Like that is why you pull the spark plug wire off the plug to check for spark there first. If no spark then pull the wire from the cap and check-I dont think you would do opposite of that would you? Thanks for you time and info...Ken
always, nearest to the coil if you want to see what is actually going on. If you have a break in the wire, your KV near the ignition coil will show it to you in that you will have a very, very high firing line. On the other end of the open plug wire you are going to fight your scope and wonder why you are getting some weird readings.
@@ScannerDanner Wow, great reply, I never thought of it that way. That is why I asked the master!! Thanks so much
Celica? Rev up your engines!
Celica is an endless moneypit.
@@Antto My first car was a '94 celica! Except mine was black and I thought it was a supra when I bought it because I didn't know the difference haha! I wish I still had that car!
@Krokodile 55 amazing stuff, my comment was 100% sarcasm. just because scotty always tells that all other cars are 'endless moneypits' other than toyota celica
@Super Mario Diagnostics, I about fell off my chair reading this.
Joe's Auto Electric glad I could help 😆
That’s why I still drive a Toyota good video
i have seen this happen twice in the last 30 years. both on pickups with 22r engine. coil short out and overheat and expand until the wires break and then wrap around the shaft.
My grandma drove with her seat belt like that and got a ticket for that 😂
that's crap :-)
I like that uscope but is just one channel n id like at least a 2 ch, could u recommend a two ch hand held like Hantek 2d82auto or the sainsmart mini dso213 4 ch, i know aeswave is one of your sponsor but you know 1 ch is very limiting like for can bus or cam crank corrolation.
I’m starting my movile mech bussiness and id like to start w a low budget scope n then get me a pico.
Let me know what u thunk of those 2 or recomend other 2 ch handheld scope.
Thanks n highly appreciated
Lopez.
BTW love ur channel!!!
"He's got shot glasses in here". Never mind 'Camera Man Caleb' what about 'Rat Man Caleb'. LMAO. On the other hand he has brought production quality up and he is pretty funny. Informative and entertaining. What more could I ask for.
Caleb has brought an element to my videos that I could only have dreamed of. I love being with my son more than anything else. Thanks Mark
Awesome outstanding job have a great time thanks
love those outtakes
Jus bought you book,really good material..
Thank you so much!
Good video, i have one of those scopes, can you purchase the clamp probe separately?
yes you can
classic dad question . What the h ll is he doing with my tools? I've look tin for that
Seen that been there ask the same ? and it is running and got the owner home
Danner: Did I cut that? Why the heck would i do that Caleb?
Caleb: Rookie mistake.
Me: ☠️💀☠️💀☠️
I've been an ASE master for over 20 years and it's why I got out of the field. People no longer have integrity on both sides of the fence. Co-workers are dishonest to get an up-sell and customers are dishonest and want shit for free. I have a favorite saying: "It doesn't pay to be competent" because they spoon feed the butchers and rely on the knowledgeable to put out fires. That is unless you really REALLY love what you do and don't mind being taken advantage of. And starting your own business is increasingly more and more difficult as the manufacturers are making things proprietary for their vehicles to be worked on (SST's interface equipment etc.)
Way to go Caleb “diva” ! Lol
Perfect I like all your videos.
I've watched only to 9:50 so far. I'd be inspecting the distributor rotor and cap by now, but mainly the rotor. I'm going to watch the rest of the video now, to see how close my guess is.
I can't wait to find out what the second pick-up coil is for in Part 2.
the lower one with 4 teeth is for piston position and RPM (crank sensor) and the upper one with 1 tooth is to ID where the #1 cylinder is for proper injection control
@@ScannerDanner Thanks!
That kinda makes it even crazier to see #3 consistently missing worse, unless there was a "bigger" copper strand interference in the cap.
The video you posted on December 14th on the 03 Chevy truck, did you ever do any more work to that? Just curious if the guy got back to you on it. We need a video dedicated to the Scanner Danner blooper reel. That pickup coil, does it have epoxy over it or no? Strange coming apart like that. Thanks for working in the cold, I can relate.
He never answered my questions. I really wanted to know the part numbers of the injectors he put in and where he got them from as they did NOT look new. My brother also found that the frame was bad on that truck and I am not surprised that we haven't heard back from him. Unfortunately
Intermittent faults for the win.
The oil is coming through the shaft seal.
Sometimes oil fouls up inside the distributor if there is an oil leak in the distributor seals
Good job
I love the vids! Very informative and educational. WEAR YOUR SEATBELT DUDE!!!! WITH THE SHOULDER PART!!
I moved that so as to not interfere with the mic
Think i found someone that calls their self an idiot more than i do, lol. Its funny how when the brain is really moving little thing can become so hard to figure. Really apprecite that you dont make up excuses and just man up and admit that even the " g.o.a.t." makes mistakes.
Those leak all the time from the distributor oring used to change them during services all the time back in the day at the Toyota dealership! And the reason it's still running is it's the greatest vehicle of all time a Celica!! Scotty Kilmer LMAO
I always wondered if that portable scope would be useful/powerful enough for automotive
Now you know. Wait until you see part 2
@@ScannerDanner I am lol also my college professor talked very highly about your channel when I was in school for my apprenticeship. Learned lots Over the past 6years, my coworker has your hand book and I try to follow your mind set of not being a parts changer and PROVING what the problem is, not just guessing
Can't be anything wrong, it is a Toyota, Scotty said. Haha
Great video! I seen you have a quad, you want to go riding sometime?
that same pickup coil is likely what's wrong in the other distributor and was causing issues. I don't recall if all model year use that coil even and I'd guess no, since it was shredded up!
maybe that was leftover from days of carburetor, been too many years lol.
** I hate remembering things after the fact, that would be the coil used as "crank speed and angle" if my brain farts are still working right, too much thought on some old heap that's not mine :))
What was the tool used to see the wave of each cylinder's spark?
Nice !
Scotty Kilmer would be proud
Sweet uscope content👍
HI DANNER!!! HELLO FROM MOLDOVA!!! WHAT DIELECTRIC GREAS DO YOU USE???( SORRY -MY BAD ENGLISH)
no problem! It is good enough to communicate with me
Wasn't the reason you changed that distributor before because it had a bad pick up coil in it? Cool diag in that distributor!🖒
Oil - >bad seal -> worn bearing -> wobbling shaft -> contact with pickup?
no contact, no wobbling in the shaft, but age and oil would be my guess too
@@ScannerDanner Good to know.. That's for sharing. Hey, while I have your attention, I've been asking on your forum but no solid answer yet. Besides your fantastic book, what's the big textbook I see on your student's desks in your premium videos?
@@jameswasher3938 I just added the ones I would recommend to my amazon affiliate www.amazon.com/shop/scannerdanner the one you seek is the one with over 1600 pages
@@ScannerDanner That's right, I had the same problem, in my case it was the top pickup coil, the resin that composes it degraded and then the rotor with 1 tooth grabbed the coil wire, the car didn't stop because of that, but the check engine light came on (code 12) the solution was a new distributor, part number 19020-16250
Thanks for sharing Paul
You're awesome as Steve says LOL
Dude, wait until you see part 2. You'll love it, my mistakes too
Crazy kids, you can catch anything while at school. You have to be very careful, or next thing you know all your copper is hanging out and you’re sputtering 😂 I have 4 kids driving gotta love it. I spend more time on thier cars then my own.
Them windings said they were tired ! Lmao
Is it that distributor design had two position senders? One reading four pins for ignition events and second acting as cam position sensor (sending one signal per 360 of cam) for I think for sequential injection.
That is correct! And the reason the car still ran was that was the 1x cam pickup that failed