A Jeep With A Misfire And It's Not The Coils, Plugs Or Injector - No Parts Required
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2023
- In this video we have a look at a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the big 4.7 that came in with a customer complaint of an engine light and an obvious misfire at idle. This one was not your run of the mill bad coil pack or injector.
-Enjoy!
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Never ceased to be amazed at Eric's knowledge! There's a reason his garage is the last stop for vehicle repairs - they get fixed!
His garage should be the only place to repair local vehicles!
@@dennishayes65😅 If they do, Mss O would be wearing gloves with that dress. She is much needed for keeping Eric sane😂
@@RaveDaver
Next to every damn good mechanic is a damn good woman.
Would love to know what causes the problem
He should rename the shop "The last stop garage"
Eric always makes it look easy. Watching him do his work like child’s play has always been such a pleasure. Thank you for bringing us along.
He's got an awesome diagnostic/analyzing brain... many great mechanics that would be jealous of this gift.
Question my grand prix 3.8 v6 series 3 the car runs fine until gets warm then gets a surge of gas and nails it then bam the engine light starts blinking until i let off the gas!! Any any information please??
Eric just proves that nothing is better than a deep understanding and knowledge of how things are supposed to work.
That was brilliant, Eric. If you ever get tired of turning wrenches, please teach the next generation of mechanics. You have so much skill, knowledge, and experience and a great way of teaching.
He’s teaching with every video he produces.
@@elgastsos210He can do what ScannerDanner does. Teach in a classroom and just record it
he's already doing that
Believe me, he already is!
@@chainarmor448 His first student didn't last long. Couple of diagnostics and he was gone.
it's also amazing that it fell out and apparently did no damage to anything in the process.
I'm still wondering what caused it to pop out. It will probably happen again.
It could be that the lifter has failed? I’ve seen that happen where the rocker arm falls out of place because of the lifter. But then again, it would be quite loud when he started it
Eric you always do nice work, I wonder if Jeep has a bulletin on that problem ???? With a reason why it happened?
@@erictroshin3490Thats an OHC engine, no lifters just rockers
@@Erez84Hydraulic lash adjusters.
Wait, what did he just say about companion cylinders, top dead center, and little buddies? Sometimes I think we forget just how good this guy is at nut and bolt mechanics. We love what you do Eric. Thank you.
Eric you're a living legend. The concept of cylinder buddies, oh man, only someone with loooong flying hours can connect the dots out of such pico graph result. kudos.
Not sure what amazes me more, Eric O abilities or the lack of diagnosis skills at the other shops
Even the dealerships can't diagnose high level type stuff anymore.
Absolutely fantastic bit of diagnostics. Just goes to show what a real pro can do.
Waste of time lol. All was needed is a quick look in the cylinder.
@@righteous1one Oh Captain hindsight 🤡 showed up. I’d say approaching this with just the engine codes as your guide his way was incredibly quick and efficient.
@@righteous1one When's your video coming out?
@@Lq32332
Thanks for your Comment. It was on the minds of many!
Proverbs Chapter 18, Verse 2 comes to mind…
RL
@@Lq32332 Why are ya so bent about it though?
Ability to diagnose is what really sets the mechanic from the diyer so far apart. I am amazed at your ability to diagnose! Love your videos.
It separates the few great mechanics from the rest of the mechanics. Most mechanics can’t diagnose anywhere close to his skill level.
It separates good mechanics from great mechanics... for example, Ray is a very good mechanic and would absolutely trust my car with him, but Eric is absolutely a couple of steps above Ray when it comes to in depth diagnostics. Ray usually also gets there, but with a lot more poking and guessing... Eric follows the clues, the evidence and the facts and zeros in to the problem.
Well…I can diagnose but I can’t fix 😂
Swapping parts is easy, it's knowing which parts to swap that sets a real mechanic apart from the techs.
I would not called a "Mechanic" but a Technician.
I have been repairing/restoring cars for about 50 years but I always learn something from your videos. Also, Mrs "O" always brings a smile to my face
Who'd of thunk you could find a valve problem by checking starter current, but that's why you're the best.
The original thumping noise in the beginning was a pretty good tell because that's the would-be exhaust being exhausted through the intake as the intake valve opens.
You’ve seen it before. Errr heard it before. Nice addition
If it was a waste spark you would have gotten a two stroke out of the cylinder.
The fix was very well done, but WHAT ABOUT THE LOW PRESSURE IN THE LEFT REAR TIRE! 🚙😱😁
patch kit would mean parts required.
As a Chrysler tech, the 3.7 and 4.7 are so common for the valve seats sliding out of the head and causing at best case spitting the rocker out. Worst case the seat gets out of position and then breaks (carnage ensues). Most common reason for the seats coming out is at some point it had got hot when the water pump failed.
5.7 does it too, along with eating cam shafts.
I had a 3.7 that spat the follower. I removed the head and the valve had the loose seat in its teeth. Several other seats were loose. I had all seats staked.
My ram with the 3.7 and ram with hemi had the same issues. I bought them cheap after the owners gave up (different owners and 2 years apart). Great knowledge to know. Other jeep quirks I learned over the years are the broken wire in the door hinges (1996-2005) that cause random electrical issues and on the newer jeeps (2006 +) the computerized shifter may be dirty with carbon but show all the signs of a bad trans. I learned so much by being a hands on home mechanic with a background in small engines (atv, zero turns, small tractors)
@@allenrussell6135 Broken wires to the door are very common on ZJs, earlier than 1996 also.
I came here to comment exactly this
Great video! Excellent diagnostic process that led to a quick result. I'm a big 4.7 guy and have done a lot of work on these engines. Overall very robust and reliable. 300k+ miles is a common sight for these if maintained.
That was a pretty unusual case for that engine to spit a rocker arm with how clean the engine looked inside. I think that it likely was because the lifter is starting to collapse; I would have pulled the lifter out and tried to squeeze it to check for any play.
Also, I noticed that the serpentine belt is routed wrong on that 4.7. I don't know why, but I see so many of these engines (3.7s too) with the belt routed that same way...even when the belt routing diagram is posted right there on the fan shroud! It spins the water pump backwards and makes the engines run hot, leading to the valve seat dropping issue in some cases. That customer probably already picked up and left but you might wanna give them a call...🙂
Thanks for the video.
Very interesting reading & observation.......
Oh yeah you're right, the belt IS routed wrong. Customer might be coming back with the same problem again soon
do you think the "thunk" noise with cranking.was from a bearing on the crank that was about to go with the stress?
No. What thunk noise? Are you being serious or making a joke that I'm not getting?? 😀 Unless severely abused (i.e., oil or coolant problems), a 4.7 generally doesn't throw bearings. If it is neglected, it will spit rocker arms or blow head gaskets long before a main bearing gives out.
@@southwestvajeeper5106 Not a joke. if you listen to the video while he is doing the WOT crank test, i think before the plug comes out, there is definitely a rhythmic thunking noise while he is cranking......he commented that he didn't expect to hear that noise but then eric never addressed what it was? the noise did not happen once the plug was removed... maybe the noise was the cylinder decompressing through its intake valve?
Sorry, I don't know anything about these motors; your comments just indicated you were really on top of them so i was hoping you could explain the noise in the video since eric O noted it but did not explain it. Thank you for your reply. take care..
Sounds like its got a cam! I absolutely love the (stethoscope) relative compression test. Hydro lock was my first guess but your companion lesson took it to the next level. Your ability to zero in on the problem brings a lift when facing an exhausting work day!
Early morning video with coffee! Can’t beat it! 😊
"I always start with relative compression first". That applies even without the fancy tools. You just have to listen while cranking with the pedal to the floor, it's clearly not as simple as a coil or plug. So, for those general mechanics who throw parts, don't think that the use of fancy tools is what separates the smart guys from the rest. Just by listening, right out the gate he knew it had to be some kind of mechanical or timing problem. Is current mapping better than just listening? This case highlights that it is! Brilliant diagnostics, Eric.
It may not always be a mechanical issue if the cylinder has no compression from being washed out. There are also instances a RC test can lead you down the wrong road. It's better to have a pressure transducer in the exhaust and intake when doing an RC test so you see the full picture.
Eric O, I still like the small change in your sign off: "Remember Folks, if I can do it, you can do it, and if we can't do it, we'll get Mrs. O to do it." 😊
I marvel at the fact that people transport their problem cars for hundreds of miles to you (and Ivan) for repairs that require no parts.
You provide shining examples of proper diagnosis and customer care.
The answer was in what had happened before, a new coil and spark plug which had done nothing because everyone else had not bothered to go beyond they why is the cylinder not working correctly other than making the Jeep a parts cannon.
Anyone can throw parts at a car at random or based on fault codes, but having the knowledge needed to figure out what parts it really needs (if any) is what seems to be rare!
I try to teach people don't just change plugs , pull a compression check first , no sense of putting lip stick on a dead pig ? But everywhere I go, they all got lip stick all over their shops ???
@@MikeSmith-nu9wt Even for people at home, I don't have a compression gauge, I'm not going to get one because I don't need it often enough, you can just play swap the parts on multi cylinder engines, and see if the problem follows. Single cylinder, I have just played swap parts with other used stuff to avoid buying anything until I know. Its just another diagnostic method for people without all of the tools.
Can't remember if it was a 3.7 or 4.7 but I had a timing chain job once. That wasn't fun. After doing research on those motors I couldn't believe Chrysler went with them. But it was what it was. It got fixed and shipped out. And the other guys in the shop got some good laughs with all of the hollaring, swearing and whatnot coming from my bay. That thing was so finicky and the parts were expensive (had to replace chain guides as well). Your customer learned a valuable lesson. Instead of being the last shop yours should be the first shop to bring a sick vehicle to. Solid diag. and easy fix. Your customer was very lucky. That loose follower could of caused lots of damage.
Sounds like Jeep hated mechanics. Took me 2 days to replace an alternator on a 2006 3.0CRD. One of the other mechanics said he'd never heard so much swearing. Why 2 days, because I got so p'd off I had too walk away many times plus had other jobs.
Someone has been revving that engine to the moon.
As a clueless old guy, I had no idea that the Pico system existed. Of course no matter how amazing the diagnostic equipment is, it still requires a skilled tech to do a proper diagnosis. Excellent work! I'm baffled though that the cam follower/rocker can simply fall out and then be popped back in without damaging anything. Please let us know if it comes back out.
My son worked for Pico briefly as an intern in college... he was collecting data both good and bad for their database that they make available to those who purchase their equipment
I am surprised too about this cam follower/rocker, but, it's not a Toyota after all.
Guessing high RPM's or loss of oil pressure spit it out.
I know Dave over at the Motor City Mechanic has talked about this before. He has his own shop now, but he was a master tech at a mopar dealership. Down in Georgia I believe.
It's grandchild of oscilloscope
I've had a few pop out on the 3.7 over the years, the root issue is the lash adjuster isn't staying pumped up. Best to replace that while the valve cover is off because odds are it'll throw the rocker again later when it fails. The little seal or valve inside the lash adjuster fails, intermittently at first. You can pull it and re-prime it with oil and it'll hold most of the time but keep compressing it and it'll just collapse at random. Eventually it'll start doing it pretty regularly. I keep a collapsed one in my box to show customers with ticking hydraulic lifters/lash adjusters and explain why changing their oil regularly helps prevent that from happening. That engine looks pretty clean so likely just a failed part. It's common enough on these engines they they make solid lash adjuster replacements where you set the lash manually like on a Honda and basically that's that until you need to adjust it again in 60,000 miles.
“Just remember if I can do it you can do it”. You have got to be kidding me. If that were the case the vehicle would not have been to multiple shops and still not fixed. Your diagnosing skills are second to none. I just wish there was someone like you near me. 👍
Pico delivers. Waiting on the mail is the hardest part....... 😊 I didn't trust ali express 99 cent attenuators. But when my $11 ones came in they are marked 'Made in China'.
Knowing China outlaws patent infringement of their stuff, they should be safe. Gotta order some christmas tree loom holders from them anyways,
Fantastic diagnosis and repair. No parts used and it’s fixed, baby.
Thank you, Mr. O for choosing this method of diagnosis and bringing us along. That was just fascinating. This old dog learned something new about companion cylinders and how a quick relative compression test can show an engine's overall health. I must admit, that was fun, even as a spectator. 😊 Thanks again.
Impressed the heck out of me. Cylinder 7 showed an anomaly but you immediately knew a different cylinder was the problem and actually what the internal problem was. Impressive. I never could understand how a relative compression test could be done electrically but your explanation made it really simple to understand. Thanks.
Don't forget he knew the problem was 4 because 4 was missfiring.
Mrs O ,makes the show!
I wish I lived closer to your shop! Good mechanics like you are hard to come by.
Man i would love to work with a guy like you. I have a hard time trusting any mechanic but you are amazing. Very thorough diagnostics on everything you do ruling out any other possibilities. Im a 100% honest type of person myself! Dont stop doing what youre doing brother.
Just did this recently based on your older video. The lash adjuster had mostly collapsed though. But $20 for a new adjuster and he was on his way! Never would have tackled this without your encouragement.
Excellent diagnosis!
I still can't understand why people don't come to you first of all, the amount of money they would save. You always have a thorough diagnosis of any problems. The amount of times I've heard you say that you were the customers last choice at fixing a car. Keep up the great work. Love from England ❤
The only thing I can think of is that his rates must be higher than anyone else, or like myself is in an area with lots of farmer shade tree mechanics.
Probably is booked out for months.
People trying to save money is why. They don't think about the whole situation, they just think of how much more money one shop will charge VS another for labor. So they go to the shop with the cheapest labor rate. Then when that shop screws up they go to the next, and so on, until they finally end up at the shop they should have started with in the first place that charges more for labor, but they would have saved money if they would have just gone there to begin with LOL.
Knowing principles of operation always wins over the parts cannon. Eric proves this daily.
Incredible diagnostic skill. Bravo Eric.
Love these diagnostic videos. This is one of my favorite channels on YT
i used to maintained some of the 4.7s in a fleet and this happened a bunch times, it will most likely happen again.
Yep collapsed hydraulic lifters are known on these
the other interesting thing is the current draw for that cylinder gets progressively larger, until it "resets". there's also a distinctive chuffing sound coming from the engine every couple of rotations.
I assume that's the sound of all that pressure in that cylinder rushing back out the intake tube when the intake valve opens.
@@jtjones4727 That would be my guess as well
My absolute favorite videos. So much knowledge delivered in a way most people can understand
Solid troubleshooting and diagnosis Eric!
Mr O is a credit to his profession. Once again, well done sir and thanks for taking us along for the rie
HEY! Good morning Eric and Mrs O! I hope that everybody has an awesome day!
Awesome and straight to the point. Love the common sense and educated approaches to all the problems you encounter. I was nearby in Penn Yan a couple of days ago and it was quite warm and nice. Keep the videos coming.
You never cease to amaze me Eric with your knowledge. Great Job.
Brilliant Eric!! From 3:45 to 4:45, check the basics first, & start simple! Learned that many years ago. Retired marine tech here. I always started a repair this way. What you did to diagnose was the way I was taught from the beginning, start with the basics! Spark, fuel, compression etc. If this would of been a marine engine from where I retired from and one of the young bucks got it, they would of connected the computer up, replaced parts, then scratched there head why it still misses. Love your work & videos, keep it up!!
I am so impressed by that whole technique of compression testing. Great to learn from such a pro.
YOU ARE HANDS DOWN THE BEST TECH EVER!!!!
Well done sir. Repairs like this are my favorite.
Great thought process, Eric! Spot on diagnostic and repair was very rewarding - no parts required :-)
Settling in for another great video Eric. Greetings from Australia :-)
Fantastic diagnostic skills!
When you said a 4.7 I figured it would be the dreaded dropped valve syndrome i have seen on a couple of my 4.7. Pretty common in high mileage 4.7. New Head runs about $2k last time I had it done.
You never fail to amaze me! Great job! Wish that fancy scanner wasn't so expensive. Of course, knowing how to use it is the biggest part of it! Rock on Eric!
This dude never ceases to amaze. What a legend.
That's one brilliant troubleshooting! Congrats!!
I had a Ford Fairmont when I was a teenager. It had a 2.3. It would throw followers regularly. I would pull over and get out my 7/16 socket and pull the valve cover and pop it back on, on the side of the road. It had a bad rear main seal too. I would leak so much oil that it would catch the cat on fire. I went though a lot of fire extinguishers with that car.
Oh man does that bring back memories!!! Had one myself. Leaked oil like the Exxon Valdez!!! Pop a follower or three back in and add another 3 quarts of oil!!!
Never seen that method used for compression testing, thanks for sharing and great diagnostic work!
I'm impressed how quick you narrowed the search down. Nice work again eric!
Great diagnostic skills demonstrated yet again. Nice job Dr. O.
I have never seen that test. So interesting and logical results. But as usual it’s the operator who makes the difference. Dang you’re good!
@23:02 The moment you and Mrs. O. know this is likely coming back. I have the 2005 version of this vehicle. Those hydraulic rocker lifters get clogged with sediment from the oil and then do not function correctly. It is probably the main reason the engine calls for oil changes every three (3) months or 3,000 miles - which owners do not do. Replacing only one hydraulic lifter is kicking the can down the road. The other thing I learned is that the gasket channel in the valve cover deforms near cylinders 7 and 8 after about 15 years. You could put sealant in the valve cover gasket channel or replace the valve covers. I have been doing OEM replacements for all my parts because I found the parts made in China only last 3 years whereas OEM lasts 3 times longer.
That was nice and easy. Goes to show that the right equipment and experience work well together. Great job Eric 👍
Please keep making videos! This is for sure one of my favorite channels on YT.
I have actually seen this 3 times and it was always cylinder 4 exhaust follower
Nice video. I would love to have one of those scopes, but as a DIY not often a reason for it. I don't know why Eric is the last stop except that he actually fixes the problem. His rates are reasonable and he does not seem to fix with a parts canon.
Avoca is a very small town in the middle of nowhere. Most customers have to come a long distance to get there.
I really enjoyed seeing you do what you do best!!!
Entertaining AND oh so informative!
Love watch your videos Eric!
I've run into this before. Like Eric, I was the last stop on a 4.7 on it's way to the scrap yard. I ordered new lash adjusters and rockers for the whole engine after the second rocker came off. Still serving that Dakota even now. I gained a dedicated customer there. I had to use more mundane equipment but came to the same conclusion. Great job Eric, keep up the good work!
Very clean high mileage motor on the inside. Kind of shocked at the amount miles on it. Very well maintained.
i know that "i do cars" guys would be happy to see the motor that clean. amazing what proper oil changes do! id suspect mine 3.7L V6 dodge would look the same as this one at 205K as I change every 3K
Great diagnostic testing Eric.
Unreal Mechanical skills, Eric. Thanks for posting, Sir.
I had the same thing happen to me on a dodge Dakota. I fought that for a long time then took the valve cover off and found the rocker arm off of one cylinder. Reinstalled and that solved it. Then it happened again. Tore down both sides and used Schaefer’s penetrating lube on every valve on both sides and everything that moved. Checked the torque on every rocker arm and never had another problem.
I assume at that point you also stopped cold rage starting it
Hello there Eric, If you set a trigger on your channel with the current clamp you can force the scope to wait until certain condition are met before drawing on the screen.
We recommend the settings below to our clients.
500ms/div time base
1-2MS/s sample rate
Trigger mode of single or repeat (Single will get you one page. Repeat will get you multiple pages but the trigger conditions have to be met again)
Simple trigger
Source is wherever your current clamp is connected (ABCD)
5% Pre trigger puts the trigger point near the left side of the screen. This gives you 95%of the screen to capture your data to.
Threshold of 200 amps in the rising direction
With these settings the scope will wait until there is 200 amps of current flow through your clamp before drawing on the screen. If you have any questions or would like to discuss it further hit us up.
Right on! When I am doing an RC test I typically have the trigger at 50 amp, 10% pre trigger, 500ms/div, and a single capture. If I am being lazy (like this video) I just wait for the screen to refresh then hit the key 🤷🏼♂. Thanks for the suggestion and comment👍🏼
@@SouthMainAuto Thank you for doing what you do. If there is anything we can help with let us know.
I was going to comment on how BRILLIANT Eric is, but I’d just be rehashing every comment on this video. Eric, you’re truly a genius!! Huge respect!
Just another Eric O Master Class.
it is so fun to play mechanic with you.
I´ve been watching you long enough to think about 4 being full of air, being compressed instead going away into the exhaust pipe.
You would make for a Wonderful teacher to a bunch of apprentices.
[You would make for a Wonderful teacher to a bunch of apprentices.]. Me thinks this is exactly what is going on here 🙂
@@chiefgecko yea, might be, at least as far as the medium allows. I hope it is enough!p
Another superb diagnosis. The question is: why did it pop out? Temporarily stuck valve? Temporarily stuck lifter? Interrupted supply of oil to the lifter? I would not be surprised if this problem reoccurs. If it does, what would your plan of action be?
it's a Chrysler
Common hydraulic lifters, they like to stick compressed until oil pressure gets to it and forces it back out
Another great display of your troubleshooting skills, knowledge and deductive reasoning. Great Job !
Eric
you’re brilliant
and
I learned something more today
Hydraulic lash adjuster got gummed up and stuck down, seems like a pretty common problem on these. Replacing all 16 adjusters would be wise.
Yep been there too.
Always enjoy your videos, even got me believing if you can do it I can do it .😁👍
Eric, great stuff! Thanks for making it so easily digestible for all of us.
I was on my way to Rochester just a couple of weeks ago and wanted to stop by but a little birdie told me you weren’t feeling well. I hope to see you again soon, my friend 🤜🏻🤛🏻
Experience has its benefits. Your experience always encourages me. Thanks for sharing.
Great video Eric, I'm always learning 👍
I have seen this on various vehicles over the decades. The first time was on an old Chrysler 2.2 engine. And the solution was to simply put the follower back in and its always fine. As to why, I do not know. I have no idea. But my theory is that the valve floated or the lash adjuster lost its prime.
The same happened to me on an old Chrysler 2.5T.
On these, they are hydraulic lifters, springs tend to fail on them and they stay collapsed till oil pressure pushes them back up.
New tech over complicates things..breaks easy ..more power that's it...
@@Sicktrickintuner that may be right, but when 50,000 miles go by afterwards and the follower hasn't fallen off again....???
Once again, a brilliant piece of troubleshooting!
Another great video showing your excellent diagnostic skills.
Eric, As a retired electrical engineer, I'm so impressed with your diagnosis using an "o-scope". I never would have thought a cam follower would be a snap-in component. Upon seeing the separated follower, I immediately wondered whether someone had been exploring the V-8's redline. Perhaps a new teenage driver? I know I did in my mom's '68 Cutlass oh so long ago..
lash adjuster/ "lifter" failed..I had a similar issue on a 3.7 and they're known for (as the dealer said when I ordered them) intermittent failure! lol good catch sir! something to do with the oil passage being too small and something floating around in the oil temporarily clogging the hole causing it to not pump up fast enough after a cycle and allowing the cam follower to leave the chat.. you know, Chrysler things!
I was thinking the same thing.
Mr. O you’re a genius. Great diagnosis and repair.
This was the best yet. Very cool knowledge base applied with good logic. Really awesome.
Hard to believe that the dislodged cam follower didn't migrate to a place where it would cause way more destruction. Lucky customer!
Really good job explaining that diagnostic process. Always learn something from your videos.
Great diagnosis..
Thanks Eric for a super overview on this issue. Great tool used to show us. Thanks Mrs. O for your super help, as we see, very much needed. AS always, if you can do it, I can watch it. Thanks again guy.
Thanks Eric and the lovely Mr's O. for the video.
Good job Eric you make it look so easy. Great video . will catch on the next one
Excellent tutorial thanks for sharing
Awesome diagnostics!!!
just amazing work and honesty