Great and simple tutorial. Straight to the point. Very useful infromation, I was having trouble messing up with the protractor, now I now it! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for being so concise in explaining. So no matter what, just visualize the enemy's vantage point and measure the angle accordingly. Could you give some more examples? I'm playing 'Uboat' right now and being able to manually enter the firing solution is SO much faster than waiting on the AI to do it. (It's also way more immersive.)
I've not tried this as I don't own the game but: You measure the range and angle from you current position to target (angle shown on the attack telescope while looking directly at the enemy should give you the angle) then you add that as a point on the navigation paper with this distance and angle from relation to you. You then wait a bit (30-60 seconds to be more accurate). Then you do it again. This should give you two points that you can draw a line between, which will be the heading of the target. This also requires you to not move. (or at least that you know how to offset your own movement).
War is hell. You don't know everything and have to make your best estimates and guesses. Do you think a tanker sent his heading, AOB and speed over the wireless to the sub during ww2? Figuring that stuff out and getting good at it is what the sim is all about.
@TSTH Seth My point is that figuring out the target's position (which you never TRULY know but estimate) and the target's heading (which you never TRULY know but estimate) and the target's speed (which you never TRULY know but estimate) is what the game is about. Those three questions are the very heart of sub combat. Every sub commander did not figure these things the same way. I've seen many methods posted and my procedures are a mashup of everything I've read and everything I've learned from sub sims. When somebody asks "how do i find their position and heading?" the answer is "There you go...now you understand the challenge of the game."
Position, observation (using the stadimeter). Heading, mark where it is now. Wait 3 Minutes and 15 Seconds. Mark new Position, draw line. You also now know the speed of the target, it is: distance of the marks/100 = amount of knots.
To find his position you need to know yours. Then you calculate his range from you, this then becomes his lat and long. The heading is from the bearing and estimating his ATB. From his bearing you take the reciprocal and + or - the ATB to give you the course.
No real easy way to do it except plot the direction and distance of your target by measuring the mast, generally when I see the enemy I get as close as possible and record data such as identification, speed, distance, and direction. This gives me a pretty good idea of where they are heading and how quickly, I then go forward and lay an ambush.
There is a stadimeter that was used in later varients of the Uboat I believe, the mast height was entered into the TDC you twisted a knob to place the mirage images water line at the highest mast this would give you your distance by measuring the angle of a known height. However this is not implemented and you get the same effect by simply counting the centiradians and plotting them on a chart. Most of the time I just get to close range, within 1000 meters and guesstimate the angle of bow by imagining I am a crew member on the enemy ship looking towards the parascope. You only need to be extremely accurate at long rangers where small errors can be big deviations. At close range you will hit the ship, you may not hit it dead center where you were aiming for but you will sink it.
You are over complicating it. I work in the combat systems for submarines, and teach this to the officers. All you need to do is look at the ship and estimate it between 0 - 90 (port or Starboard) which at 90 degrees will be the closest point of approach (CPA). After that the angle increases to 180 (or right astern). It is a matter for the officers on the periscope to practise time and time again, before estimating the ATB (Angle of The Bow) not AOB. The only way anyone can measure it, is by calling the ships captain and asking what course he is on? From a submarine or ship this is not done of course. So it is a matter of practise to become skilled at estimating the ATB until it becomes 90 degrees where it is at CPA and then you add 90 degrees to the bearing and you get the course.
Not really, imagine you are a crew member standing on the enemy ship and looking at your periscope, the angle that crew member can see you is the angle you put in the TDC. So if you estimate the crew member can see you at a 45 degree angle of the starboard bow then you put 45 degrees right.
it boggles my mind that this is where people get confused.There is so much more to it but AOB is what does most in :)
Great and simple tutorial. Straight to the point. Very useful infromation, I was having trouble messing up with the protractor, now I now it! Thanks for sharing.
''lets say an enemy ship is moving from here to here''
What? how would i know that without angle?
Thanks for being so concise in explaining. So no matter what, just visualize the enemy's vantage point and measure the angle accordingly. Could you give some more examples? I'm playing 'Uboat' right now and being able to manually enter the firing solution is SO much faster than waiting on the AI to do it. (It's also way more immersive.)
Imagine the enemy ship also has a periscope and are looking right at you. What would their angle be as they look at you?
How do find the heading of the target tho, and his position
I've not tried this as I don't own the game but: You measure the range and angle from you current position to target (angle shown on the attack telescope while looking directly at the enemy should give you the angle) then you add that as a point on the navigation paper with this distance and angle from relation to you. You then wait a bit (30-60 seconds to be more accurate). Then you do it again. This should give you two points that you can draw a line between, which will be the heading of the target. This also requires you to not move. (or at least that you know how to offset your own movement).
War is hell. You don't know everything and have to make your best estimates and guesses. Do you think a tanker sent his heading, AOB and speed over the wireless to the sub during ww2? Figuring that stuff out and getting good at it is what the sim is all about.
@TSTH Seth My point is that figuring out the target's position (which you never TRULY know but estimate) and the target's heading (which you never TRULY know but estimate) and the target's speed (which you never TRULY know but estimate) is what the game is about. Those three questions are the very heart of sub combat. Every sub commander did not figure these things the same way. I've seen many methods posted and my procedures are a mashup of everything I've read and everything I've learned from sub sims. When somebody asks "how do i find their position and heading?" the answer is "There you go...now you understand the challenge of the game."
Position, observation (using the stadimeter). Heading, mark where it is now. Wait 3 Minutes and 15 Seconds. Mark new Position, draw line. You also now know the speed of the target, it is: distance of the marks/100 = amount of knots.
To find his position you need to know yours. Then you calculate his range from you, this then becomes his lat and long. The heading is from the bearing and estimating his ATB. From his bearing you take the reciprocal and + or - the ATB to give you the course.
how you find the cource of the target? because i cant see it on the map!!!
My problem is to find 2 exactly points of the target.
No real easy way to do it except plot the direction and distance of your target by measuring the mast, generally when I see the enemy I get as close as possible and record data such as identification, speed, distance, and direction. This gives me a pretty good idea of where they are heading and how quickly, I then go forward and lay an ambush.
if they are going opposite what will ne the angle of bow?
if they are moving RIGHT to LEFT across your scope then they would see you on their PORT (Left) side. So use the RED portion of the Angle on Bow.
tysm dude
TDC was a machine why would they not ask to enter something more obvious and have the machine calculate stuff.
because it was a ww2 mechanical calculator. It probably would have been the size of the conning tower if it had to do more complicated stuff
There is a stadimeter that was used in later varients of the Uboat I believe, the mast height was entered into the TDC you twisted a knob to place the mirage images water line at the highest mast this would give you your distance by measuring the angle of a known height. However this is not implemented and you get the same effect by simply counting the centiradians and plotting them on a chart.
Most of the time I just get to close range, within 1000 meters and guesstimate the angle of bow by imagining I am a crew member on the enemy ship looking towards the parascope. You only need to be extremely accurate at long rangers where small errors can be big deviations. At close range you will hit the ship, you may not hit it dead center where you were aiming for but you will sink it.
you say rotate to 40 degrees then you rotate to 50????or that other part of the triangle is important and you fail to say that
You are over complicating it. I work in the combat systems for submarines, and teach this to the officers. All you need to do is look at the ship and estimate it between 0 - 90 (port or Starboard) which at 90 degrees will be the closest point of approach (CPA). After that the angle increases to 180 (or right astern). It is a matter for the officers on the periscope to practise time and time again, before estimating the ATB (Angle of The Bow) not AOB. The only way anyone can measure it, is by calling the ships captain and asking what course he is on? From a submarine or ship this is not done of course. So it is a matter of practise to become skilled at estimating the ATB until it becomes 90 degrees where it is at CPA and then you add 90 degrees to the bearing and you get the course.
I didnt get your approach.
That...was way too hard to understand.
Not really, imagine you are a crew member standing on the enemy ship and looking at your periscope, the angle that crew member can see you is the angle you put in the TDC.
So if you estimate the crew member can see you at a 45 degree angle of the starboard bow then you put 45 degrees right.