When I started working for a Cup team way back, I asked to have the engine tested after Pocono. It was down 10/12 as I recall. The difference ended up coming from the wide seats. That's it. It goes to show where you are in engine conditioning and if you need changes to be done. These valve jobs are really, serious on high end drag racing. Some shops will not do these without re cutting the chambers. Believe it.
Brian, I absolutely love your passion, no joke. Your Military assertiveness is one of your most impressive traits, to me. I'm proud you are my Brother in Arms. I am not trying to blow sunshine but you are one of my favorite Tech Teachers on here. Thank you. Keep the lessons coming, because I love learning more about engines and I hope I get to a point to use your teaching (on a smaller scale) in my builds.
Good stuff, keep it going! My kid did up a pair of the China dart copy heads. Opened it up for 2.08 valves, ported, and unshrouded the chamber to a 4.155 bore size... sent it to Weingartner for flow testing and it did 239cfm at .400 and 298 at .600. Flow started dropping off at .650. The net lift on his cam is .666. We could have made some changes to get bigger numbers past .600 but I would be willing to bet it would have cost mid lift flow. We kept it as is. The engine I'd making some serious power, wish we would have dyno'd it! I think there's lots that happens with port velocity that people don't realize and some engines with higher high lift flow numbers can often make less power.
You 💯 percent need to write a engine building book (Manual). I've figured out all my issues from trial and error. My problem is my bank account. Mr. Salter don't let internet Rambo's get to you. Your advice has saved a lot of time and money 💰. Please keep the videos coming. ❤. God Bless Everyone. Prayers for the hurricane 🌀 🙏 Victims and Trust in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus ❤.
I’m not putting Salter down at all, it takes along time to write a book! If you want to know what wins races, get yourself a Reher Morrison book! It’s in almost all engine shops that are worth a shit! Whether you see it or not!
Brian, Thank you for providing your wisdom freely. I'm looking at the cross section of the valve, and it reminds me of the cross section of an airplane (C172) wing. In order to get more flow, I believe you need to reduce the 90° [margin] so the whole valve cross section mimics the radius of the cross section of the airplane wing. Thank you, Leo
Well as a 22 year old broke cylinder head machinist & head porter who doesn’t own a flow bench, I guess I’ll be looking for the margin answer in the parts washer haha. I’ve never thought of testing it that way before. I’ve always put some dirty varsol in the gasket side opening of the port and blow compressed air through the port with the valve installed, at whatever lift I want. Because the varsol is dirty from the parts washer I can see the “wet flow” around the valve, I can see where the fuel will atomize and where it’ll fall out of suspension. Of course the pattern changes depending on where I stick the air nozzle at the opening of the port but hell, it’s a damn good test for free. I’d love to have a $20,000 flow bench but this among other things is what I’ve got for now haha. I’ve used this way to develop some of my own custom seat cutters, chamber shapes, back angles & valve shapes and even port textures in particular areas. Ive seen some awesome results from it on customers engines too, I’ll be testing my own personal motor soon with everything I’ve learned over the past 4 years combined and I’m excited to see how it turns out and publish the information on how I did it. Ive never seen anyone test things like this in a similar way though and I wanna say thank you because now you got me thinking about the margin haha. I’m gonna figure out that damn angle, I got a lathe, just you wait n see.
Well air doesn't like to turn at any angle greater than 15°. If you're starting with a 45° seat then a 60° and 75° before the 90° margin. All depends on how you wanna get it out, but 15° is the sharpest that air will turn.
@@V8Lenny let me get a protractor and some graph paper....gotta find a pencil too. Jk Sure you can. If there's room and the contact starts up the 45 high enough.
I built an engine for my street/strip car and had the oil consumption problem you had with Turing groove issue. I had hapless top rings which made the diagnosis difficult. I ran it for 3 years, never had time to tear it down. It ran good, but used oil, and all my customers needed to come first, but it drove me nuts. Took it apart, there it was. I feel your pain.
This is really great information. Thank you for sharing so much experience and knowledge. I will be thinking more about engineering the next engine build. I enjoy listening to all your videos. Excellent.
Thank you Brian Yes, moving air around a radius is an acceleration of its mass. Going straight for too long undoes the acceleration , get it turning, keep it turning
Another excellent instructional episode, yep , the wide seats are for made for longevity for the average guy or gal that wants to bolt on a head for a hundred thousand miles . But the performance engine is going to get pulled down more often
Love your videos! You remind me of Smoky Yunik. Goog old thinking and asking why instead of just going with the main stream. That is why you are so good! I am incorperating much of what I have learned in my next build. So much of this is free horsepower, just a little work. Thank you for all the information.
I remember back yrs ago one of your engines an your name was mentioned. By one of the commentators of a nascar race. You Eng was in second place an the driver had run the heck out of the Eng. I think around 200 mile an hour. A the speaker gave the slater Eng a great name. He said that Eng stood up to the slater name as an Eng builder. Worth looking into. He will be sticking around in the nascar circuit.
If you undercut the margin you can create a low pressure zone towards that margin and the higher pressure above will move towards it. Look up the Coanda effect.
Thanks for the great videos. All of the "real" professionals like you.I listen to And you know themTalk about the same exact mods and results. The one thing they never talked about is mods to the margin. I always wondered about that. I will do some experimenting on my homemade flow bench. THANKS!
The size of the valve is for valve area, but it also has an effect on the flow, with larger valves creating bigger low pressure pockets under the valve as the air flows around the edge of the valve and wraps around in a vortex.
I'm going to take a guess , everytime you washed the dishes you looked at how the water flowed across different surfaces like the in and outside of a spoon ???? I have too. great vids 😎
@7:23 to answer your question, you're mainly porting for the valves, and to a certain extent the piston crown(this becomes more crucial with Hemis). The port and chamber should complement the valve job and bowl's intended flow characteristics. Fords for instance with the port biased towards the center of the cylinder aren't swirl heavy heads, Chevy with their heads biased towards the cylinder wall have more built in swirl. Swirl can help and hurt you, too much swirl means you're taking energy out of the flow, too little swirl and you won't have good fuel mixing.
Swirl , if done right never hurts. I flowed some 2019 Nascar heads....and the swirl is ASTONISHING. Put in a diesel injector , 15 compression and start dieseling!!
@@Baard2000 Swirl if done right is fantastic, in my retarded opinion, you want little swirl at very low lifts, then you want it to ramp up progressively to around 2500rpm max at full lift. Any more than that, and the swirl becomes so strong that it starts taking kinetic energy out of the flow, and can cause reversion. Ideally you want tumble and swirl at a specific ratio(which is a function of your swirl curve) and you'll get the most homogenous and quick combustion possible.
@ 28:56 Shame DCX didn't see this video back in 04-08 when those G3 Hemi(s) were dropping seats, they were using .004 for press, the 6.1 and Eagle head they increased to .007-.008
Awesome information. Patiently awaiting more info. I run a 2 barrel restricted engine rules package dirt car, and any advantage is useful. That margin idea is something! Very slick idea on checking the laminar flow of the valve with the solvent tank. Never gave that a consideration. Excellent info. Oh, and I didn't know the craft shop had the ability to do the head work you mentioned. Missed out on an opportunity. (U.S. Army '83-'92)
0.007" press fit in aluminum is good to go Brian! I'm a little late getting to these videos, but I can almost see someone having a problem with that figure. I have to explain this all the time with the engines I build. Aluminum expands quite a bit at engine operating temperature. I've set lash to zero on solid roller cams in aluminum blocks with aluminum heads. I've run the engine to operating temperature and found lash has grown to 0.012" to 0.014" depending on the aluminum used. OEM aluminum usually grows a little more. So heating the head to 200° and freezing the valve seat would allow a 0.007" press fit no problem. This would allow for 0.001" interference fit at operating temp and keep the seat from dropping out. Good video Brian. You kept the 15° air turn angle all hushed up for 30 minutes. Ive gotta finish the video later.
The low lift flow suffers on a steeper seat angle due to less area being exposed. This can be calculated using some trig however since there is less area exposed (less flow) the discharge coefficient is used for efficiency of the valve.
First time I've heard anyone say there's gains in the margin. definitely gonna experiment with that. That said, on a video titled pro tips, the mind boggles at needing to explain concepts like valve shrouding, cross sectional view, and interference fits. 🤔
Excellent information! More important meaningful statements made and reiterated for reference! That helps even more. The point made about lifting a valve past a flow number is a source of contention that I’ve lived in one too many times. So much so that I avoid the conversation. I must ask if this rule still applies when port flow falls completely off at a certain lift? I also appreciate the instruction on valve margin angle scrutiny. It’s a detail that I have never tested but will be going forward. I’ve known from very early experiences that margin width affects airflow. My tests have also shown that back cut angles do not have to be a mile wide that are all the way to the seating surface angle. I’ve always tested back cut angles by starting out with the steepest back cut angle. Making that back cut angle width only wide enough to test with and hopefully there’s room to change. If not I sometimes use all 8 intake valves lessening the back cut angle until I find the angle that flows best. Can’t wait to see the direction headed with valve guide clearance. I see the beryllium copper or moldstar 90 seats. I know what not to do with those seats. What I’ve done to correct the issue has unnerved people in the past. Thank you for your time and efforts!
Way I understood it / was explained to me, lower angle valve face / seat angles have a larger valve curtain, versus, 45, at a given lift, but, especially at lower lifts, that made sense, for its advantage on lower lift applications, and would raise the average flow overall. Regarding valve margins, margins also seem to have a influence on reversion. Think another thing people shoot themselves in the foot, is going for the biggest valve, not only for increased shrouding, but for resulting larger throats or too large a throat percentage versus lift, that kills port energy.
yep. a smaller valve will have less shrouding and be more efficient. go larger, and you may gain very little flow because of shrouding, and end up with less power.
Anyone that thinks going to 0.500 lift on a head that flows best at 0.500 lift will make more power than going higher has no idea that being at 0.500 twice instead of once is mo better!
port injection or carb valve angles affect shear Building Truck engines I kept wide margins, maybe I just got lucky 30 degree seats (sometimes with a bottom angle) but 400 - 450 lift so quick curtain opening -short duration to keep the valve on the seat No razor thin valves. Sometimes you have a lift rule so you open to that lift as quick as possible and hold it there as long as possible. Like stock rules in the 50s STem size matters that's why we ran 7/16 sodium cooled valve stems in the 60's turbo Rambler motor on 60 lbs boost It had to live That's why I do not like "street-strip"
What a great video. I've heard porting to the valve size from a private individual with a background similar to yours. Are you going to do a video that touches on what guides the choice in valve size? Have fun at PRI. Be safe
I know that this is a stupid question, but do you make any kind of FE heads? Most of the improvements are in the manifolds, but heads and intakes are so important in making the FE continue to be the legend it is. The Windsor is being jammed down our throats. I have been an FE fanatic since I was a child. They just can’t go away. Please don’t let them die.
I don't have access to a flow bench but have access to a dyno. I have big block mopar trick flow 240s, im going to port them out to the next size 270cc , while im doing that id like to put a 50 seat on my valve, a 40 a 30 and 20 . It will be just time on my part, have you tried this and seen gains. These valves have a 45 seat and 30 back cut
@@Moparmaga-1 yes I see high lift gains just cut your margins between 5 to 7 ° and that will pick up your low lift flow a little bit Put the valve in a lathe to do this when you go to 50° or more and a lot of times you will keep or even gain low in Midlift flow
@@SalterRacingEngines awesome news, thank you. My cam I'm swapping to is .700 lift, we will be testing to see where it likes lash at. I think comp want somewhere around.028
I have a question regarding your statement about air/fuel ratios: how much power are you talking about? The reason I ask is because there are several different tests posted here on You Tube by well known and respected people that show that while there is a change, that change can be within the measurable margin of error pull to pull. That is NOT to say that other aspects of engine performance aren't affected as that certainly cannot be true, but for just a simple blast on a dyno the power ranges from running huge swings in AFR in those tests isn't a lot (and that has to be a qualifier because a "lot" is subjective and totally dependent on the application, hence my question).
@@rocketsurgeon11 it's an easy 10 hp from 11:1 AFR to 12:1 AFR. With gasoline on nearly every Dyno I have ever done and sometimes more sometimes less. I am so confused as to how some people act like this isn't true Ask ANY professional engine tuner for n/a engines. I can change the carb jet to any size I want to in any direction with just two sizes and see torque and horsepower changes If people say that's not true they either do not know what they're doing or their Dyno cannot read it Or the carburetor is pulling fuel from somewhere else and the jet changes aren't making an effect I have seen carburetors pull fuel between the metering block and the main body and not so much from the Jets and an inexperienced carburetor person may not catch that. Whatever's going on if you take the Jets from say 50 to 52 it will change the horsepower and torque numbers and anybody who denies this is a liar
@@SalterRacingEngines thank you for your reply, sir. I am going to have to go back and see if I can find those videos to make sure I am not missing anything. Off the cuff it seems I remember that being an overall change of a full sweep of "safe" AFR, not just over a full point. This may seem like a dumb question because combustion is combustion, so would port fuel injection make any difference in what the outcome of air fuel ratio would be? Atomization is the only thing I can think of that might make a difference here. I appreciate your time. Thank you for your insight.
@rocketsurgeon11 well let me just say I'm not sure if I understand the question so I'm going to answer it the best way I know how. If fuel gets atomized properly then it's not going to matter. One of the main benefits to fuel injection is you can control it in so many different ways that you cannot control carburetion. If you have the right fuel system you can actually change the timing of when the fuel is delivered to the cylinder and you cannot do that with a carburetor. I'm actually going to do a video on carburetion and port or EFI injection and direct injection because there are notable differences. I hope that answers your question.
@@SalterRacingEngines my apologies for not being very clear. Your answer here primes me to keep an eye out for your later discussion. That may be where the answer is. Truthfully this is too much of an in-depth thing to try and hone in over YT comments. I won't waste any more of your time here and I will just keep paying attention. Thank you again.
He is talking about the valve seat being pressed in the head. The seat needs to be .007 larger than the hole so the seat does not fall out of the head.
@@____MC____ great question and I hate to tell you this but every time you do something to that guy you have to read tru-up the valve seat. That is the only way You have to cut new valve seat angles so that everything is lined up
Valve guide eccentricity pisses me off to no ends in certain circumstances. It seems very intentional in some cases. There are heads out there that won’t tolerate a larger valve to accommodate the necessary corrections all derived from a set of guides that had run out built into them. I’d see it differently if the situation dictated or if it was an issue that I couldn’t solve myself. I just see it too often. I roll test new guides in some of my ammo reloading tooling. Nothing exotic or hard to obtain. We all know right where to go to get nice straight valve guides. It all appears to be intentional and it should not be this way.
@@hughobrien4139 unfortunately you are correct one of the first things you should do once you install the guide is run a reamer through it so that it's true and start from there
@SalterRacingEngines paying someone to redo the seats is probably worth more than the heads themselves. Theyre just a old set of cheap promaxx's i was trying to fix with garage tools. I hate to throw them in the trash after all the hrs put into them.
I'm sensing some bruised ego there Brian on your part and its not a good look on you, I know exactly what video your refering to and all I can say is that video was brilliantly done & was easly the best video on the subject ive seen! that is pretty weak on your part because you do realize in that video he went out of his way to recomended your channel to his subscribers/viewers so nothing in his video was obviously directed towards you in any way shape of form, This youtube camshaft controversy/battle for truth started long before you showed up and has been going for at least 2 years. Now you do realize the individual im speaking of had nothing but good things to say about you, but now i dont know how long that will last due to the actions taken on your part but only time will tell if he will see this, i may just let him know about this video so he can see the kind of individual you are after he did what he did to help you... Also just a thought?? how is any of this relevant to anything "someone" said in the video that hurt your feelings/EGO, it almost seem as if your really reaching to me??? I've also noticed before you have had your feelings hurt by Daniel Powell before and couldn't help but to lash out in a video. Ya know Brian, you might want to think about toning the EGO down with this internet stuff, because you just lost a new subscriber.. I've been following the individual who unintentionally hurt your feelings for more than 2 years, I found him by recommendation of David Vizard, also I will stand on the fact that the individual im speaking of is one of the most experienced, stand up, legit, & unegotistical dudes on this platform period, by far!!! I would even go as far as calling him a friend of mine...
@29 min, VERY feww shops,5%? have the tools or the ability to install seats with that much press fit. AND if you drag metal your valve job will never be stable- soooooo how do u install a 1.750? seat with .007 press fit AND NOT drag metal?AND lets keep in mide- taking a 356 casting over 300 f continues the aging process-
Good info, Brian. A lot of people don't realize how critical seat profiles really are. I will pay more attention to the margin from now on with my valves. Are you using just a regular 28" depression when you test this?
When I started working for a Cup team way back, I asked to have the engine tested after Pocono. It was down 10/12 as I recall. The difference ended up coming from the wide seats. That's it.
It goes to show where you are in engine conditioning and if you need changes to be done.
These valve jobs are really, serious on high end drag racing. Some shops will not do these without re cutting the chambers.
Believe it.
Brian, I absolutely love your passion, no joke. Your Military assertiveness is one of your most impressive traits, to me. I'm proud you are my Brother in Arms. I am not trying to blow sunshine but you are one of my favorite Tech Teachers on here. Thank you. Keep the lessons coming, because I love learning more about engines and I hope I get to a point to use your teaching (on a smaller scale) in my builds.
Good stuff, keep it going! My kid did up a pair of the China dart copy heads. Opened it up for 2.08 valves, ported, and unshrouded the chamber to a 4.155 bore size... sent it to Weingartner for flow testing and it did 239cfm at .400 and 298 at .600. Flow started dropping off at .650. The net lift on his cam is .666. We could have made some changes to get bigger numbers past .600 but I would be willing to bet it would have cost mid lift flow. We kept it as is. The engine I'd making some serious power, wish we would have dyno'd it! I think there's lots that happens with port velocity that people don't realize and some engines with higher high lift flow numbers can often make less power.
Awesome video as always. I am a engine builder for 62 years and i still learn from you sir.
You 💯 percent need to write a engine building book (Manual). I've figured out all my issues from trial and error. My problem is my bank account. Mr. Salter don't let internet Rambo's get to you. Your advice has saved a lot of time and money 💰. Please keep the videos coming. ❤. God Bless Everyone. Prayers for the hurricane 🌀 🙏 Victims and Trust in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus ❤.
Brian and David Vizard tell similar procedures. DV has numerous books out.
I’m not putting Salter down at all, it takes along time to write a book! If you want to know what wins races, get yourself a Reher Morrison book! It’s in almost all engine shops that are worth a shit! Whether you see it or not!
@@brianholcomb6499 I like Reher Morrison
Great info Brian. Looking forward to episodes 2 thru 20. Keep up the great work.
Brian, Thank you for providing your wisdom freely. I'm looking at the cross section of the valve, and it reminds me of the cross section of an airplane (C172) wing. In order to get more flow, I believe you need to reduce the 90° [margin] so the whole valve cross section mimics the radius of the cross section of the airplane wing. Thank you, Leo
@@leoclayboss7215 yeah it depends man every head angle will dictate a lot of that and also your induction size
Thanks
Thanks Brian for a very interesting video. It fits perfect for the morning Coffee here in Sweden 🇸🇪
Well as a 22 year old broke cylinder head machinist & head porter who doesn’t own a flow bench, I guess I’ll be looking for the margin answer in the parts washer haha. I’ve never thought of testing it that way before. I’ve always put some dirty varsol in the gasket side opening of the port and blow compressed air through the port with the valve installed, at whatever lift I want. Because the varsol is dirty from the parts washer I can see the “wet flow” around the valve, I can see where the fuel will atomize and where it’ll fall out of suspension. Of course the pattern changes depending on where I stick the air nozzle at the opening of the port but hell, it’s a damn good test for free. I’d love to have a $20,000 flow bench but this among other things is what I’ve got for now haha. I’ve used this way to develop some of my own custom seat cutters, chamber shapes, back angles & valve shapes and even port textures in particular areas. Ive seen some awesome results from it on customers engines too, I’ll be testing my own personal motor soon with everything I’ve learned over the past 4 years combined and I’m excited to see how it turns out and publish the information on how I did it. Ive never seen anyone test things like this in a similar way though and I wanna say thank you because now you got me thinking about the margin haha. I’m gonna figure out that damn angle, I got a lathe, just you wait n see.
You can build your own flow bench much cheaper
@ I’ve thought about that actually, might be a project for me next year.
Well air doesn't like to turn at any angle greater than 15°. If you're starting with a 45° seat then a 60° and 75° before the 90° margin. All depends on how you wanna get it out, but 15° is the sharpest that air will turn.
@@arturozarate1752 I dont think you can put any angles between seat and margin.
@@V8Lenny let me get a protractor and some graph paper....gotta find a pencil too. Jk
Sure you can. If there's room and the contact starts up the 45 high enough.
I built an engine for my street/strip car and had the oil consumption problem you had with Turing groove issue. I had hapless top rings which made the diagnosis difficult. I ran it for 3 years, never had time to tear it down. It ran good, but used oil, and all my customers needed to come first, but it drove me nuts. Took it apart, there it was. I feel your pain.
This is really great information.
Thank you for sharing so much experience and knowledge.
I will be thinking more about engineering the next engine build.
I enjoy listening to all your videos.
Excellent.
Thank you Brian
Yes, moving air around a radius is an acceleration of its mass. Going straight for too long undoes the acceleration , get it turning, keep it turning
Thanks Brian for all your video's. I always learn something.
Another excellent instructional episode, yep , the wide seats are for made for longevity for the average guy or gal that wants to bolt on a head for a hundred thousand miles . But the performance engine is going to get pulled down more often
Love your videos! You remind me of Smoky Yunik. Goog old thinking and asking why instead of just going with the main stream. That is why you are so good! I am incorperating much of what I have learned in my next build. So much of this is free horsepower, just a little work. Thank you for all the information.
I remember back yrs ago one of your engines an your name was mentioned. By one of the commentators of a nascar race. You Eng was in second place an the driver had run the heck out of the Eng. I think around 200 mile an hour. A the speaker gave the slater Eng a great name. He said that Eng stood up to the slater name as an Eng builder. Worth looking into. He will be sticking around in the nascar circuit.
If you undercut the margin you can create a low pressure zone towards that margin and the higher pressure above will move towards it. Look up the Coanda effect.
Thanks for the great videos. All of the "real" professionals like you.I listen to And you know themTalk about the same exact mods and results. The one thing they never talked about is mods to the margin. I always wondered about that. I will do some experimenting on my homemade flow bench. THANKS!
LOVE these videos
I keep all notifications on for your videos! Great stuff to watch and listen to while in the shop.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
The size of the valve is for valve area, but it also has an effect on the flow, with larger valves creating bigger low pressure pockets under the valve as the air flows around the edge of the valve and wraps around in a vortex.
Great class.
It just keeps getting better!
I'm going to take a guess , everytime you washed the dishes you looked at how the water flowed across different surfaces like the in and outside of a spoon ???? I have too. great vids 😎
Great tips Brian thanks for sharing,I'm a circle track engine builder ,love your videos
@7:23 to answer your question, you're mainly porting for the valves, and to a certain extent the piston crown(this becomes more crucial with Hemis). The port and chamber should complement the valve job and bowl's intended flow characteristics. Fords for instance with the port biased towards the center of the cylinder aren't swirl heavy heads, Chevy with their heads biased towards the cylinder wall have more built in swirl. Swirl can help and hurt you, too much swirl means you're taking energy out of the flow, too little swirl and you won't have good fuel mixing.
Swirl , if done right never hurts. I flowed some 2019 Nascar heads....and the swirl is ASTONISHING. Put in a diesel injector , 15 compression and start dieseling!!
@@Baard2000 Swirl if done right is fantastic, in my retarded opinion, you want little swirl at very low lifts, then you want it to ramp up progressively to around 2500rpm max at full lift. Any more than that, and the swirl becomes so strong that it starts taking kinetic energy out of the flow, and can cause reversion.
Ideally you want tumble and swirl at a specific ratio(which is a function of your swirl curve) and you'll get the most homogenous and quick combustion possible.
The convention center buildings in FL are huge. To me, they did a good job with the shuttles and hotels for the show.
Awsome vid keep up the good work it all makes sense
@ 28:56 Shame DCX didn't see this video back in 04-08 when those G3 Hemi(s) were dropping seats, they were using .004 for press, the 6.1 and Eagle head they increased to .007-.008
Awesome information. Patiently awaiting more info. I run a 2 barrel restricted engine rules package dirt car, and any advantage is useful. That margin idea is something!
Very slick idea on checking the laminar flow of the valve with the solvent tank. Never gave that a consideration. Excellent info. Oh, and I didn't know the craft shop had the ability to do the head work you mentioned. Missed out on an opportunity. (U.S. Army '83-'92)
@@jeffwooton7138 oh I didn't do it there I did it out of my little single wide trailer I lived in LOL
Those were the days
0.007" press fit in aluminum is good to go Brian! I'm a little late getting to these videos, but I can almost see someone having a problem with that figure. I have to explain this all the time with the engines I build.
Aluminum expands quite a bit at engine operating temperature. I've set lash to zero on solid roller cams in aluminum blocks with aluminum heads. I've run the engine to operating temperature and found lash has grown to 0.012" to 0.014" depending on the aluminum used. OEM aluminum usually grows a little more.
So heating the head to 200° and freezing the valve seat would allow a 0.007" press fit no problem. This would allow for 0.001" interference fit at operating temp and keep the seat from dropping out.
Good video Brian. You kept the 15° air turn angle all hushed up for 30 minutes. Ive gotta finish the video later.
Hi Brian. Thanks for making my head hurt ( good thing ) You have me thinking about stuff I never thought of before. Andrew
The low lift flow suffers on a steeper seat angle due to less area being exposed. This can be calculated using some trig however since there is less area exposed (less flow) the discharge coefficient is used for efficiency of the valve.
Hey Brian, because you will decrease the velocity once you take an air column from a straight path. Good video! This is why I do seamless transitions
Great video and tips as always, Brian. Appreciate the information. Excellent teaching skills, my friend.🏁🏁
First time I've heard anyone say there's gains in the margin. definitely gonna experiment with that. That said, on a video titled pro tips, the mind boggles at needing to explain concepts like valve shrouding, cross sectional view, and interference fits. 🤔
Thanks for sharing Brian
Thank you for the great information! I learn something new with every video!
Excellent information! More important meaningful statements made and reiterated for reference! That helps even more.
The point made about lifting a valve past a flow number is a source of contention that I’ve lived in one too many times. So much so that I avoid the conversation. I must ask if this rule still applies when port flow falls completely off at a certain lift?
I also appreciate the instruction on valve margin angle scrutiny. It’s a detail that I have never tested but will be going forward.
I’ve known from very early experiences that margin width affects airflow.
My tests have also shown that back cut angles do not have to be a mile wide that are all the way to the seating surface angle.
I’ve always tested back cut angles by starting out with the steepest back cut angle. Making that back cut angle width only wide enough to test with and hopefully there’s room to change. If not I sometimes use all 8 intake valves lessening the back cut angle until I find the angle that flows best.
Can’t wait to see the direction headed with valve guide clearance.
I see the beryllium copper or moldstar 90 seats. I know what not to do with those seats. What I’ve done to correct the issue has unnerved people in the past.
Thank you for your time and efforts!
@@hughobrien4139 yeah it always makes more power every single time to go past the max Flo Lift number
@@SalterRacingEngines Just like revving past peak power, cause when you shift, you'll be further up the powerband.
@@rolandotillit2867
This I can relate to, even with my modest street engine.
Well done. Looking forward to more on porting to valve size. Thanks.
Love your posts Brian! Keep it up my man!!
Way I understood it / was explained to me, lower angle valve face / seat angles have a larger valve curtain, versus, 45, at a given lift, but, especially at lower lifts, that made sense, for its advantage on lower lift applications, and would raise the average flow overall.
Regarding valve margins, margins also seem to have a influence on reversion.
Think another thing people shoot themselves in the foot, is going for the biggest valve, not only for increased shrouding, but for resulting larger throats or too large a throat percentage versus lift, that kills port energy.
yep. a smaller valve will have less shrouding and be more efficient. go larger, and you may gain very little flow because of shrouding, and end up with less power.
Once again watching one of your videos I have learned much!
Thanks! 👍👍
Very interested in head work and porting . Watching the fluid pour over the valve was pretty smart thinking.
Another great video
Excellent information. I have always felt like low lift flow is critical since the valve spends way more time at partial lift than max lift.
Great teaching I understand some a feel i misunderstood some things. Exciting
I think the .200” duration numbers on a can tell me more about how it will perform than the commonly stated .050” numbers.
Very interesting info 👍
I did that too with the stream when I was that age. I couldn’t afford a flow bench.
Fantastic video. Can't thank you enough for the info.
Bless you for helping you do a darn good job
HAPPY NEW YEAR AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THE GREATEST YEARS OF LIFE ARE THE ONES AHEAD!
Anyone that thinks going to 0.500 lift on a head that flows best at 0.500 lift will make more power than going higher has no idea that being at 0.500 twice instead of once is mo better!
port injection or carb valve angles affect shear Building Truck engines I kept wide margins, maybe I just got lucky 30 degree seats (sometimes with a bottom angle) but 400 - 450 lift so quick curtain opening -short duration to keep the valve on the seat No razor thin valves. Sometimes you have a lift rule so you open to that lift as quick as possible and hold it there as long as possible. Like stock rules in the 50s
STem size matters that's why we ran 7/16 sodium cooled valve stems in the 60's turbo Rambler motor on 60 lbs boost It had to live That's why I do not like "street-strip"
Love this channel
Appreciate the videos
Awesome info brother!!!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
What a great video. I've heard porting to the valve size from a private individual with a background similar to yours. Are you going to do a video that touches on what guides the choice in valve size? Have fun at PRI. Be safe
Thanks captain cam shaft
Thanks Brian.
Soaking up your teaching. Thanks
I know that this is a stupid question, but do you make any kind of FE heads? Most of the improvements are in the manifolds, but heads and intakes are so important in making the FE continue to be the legend it is. The Windsor is being jammed down our throats. I have been an FE fanatic since I was a child. They just can’t go away. Please don’t let them die.
Brian Pontiac ran 30° seats
I don't have access to a flow bench but have access to a dyno.
I have big block mopar trick flow 240s, im going to port them out to the next size 270cc , while im doing that id like to put a 50 seat on my valve, a 40 a 30 and 20 .
It will be just time on my part, have you tried this and seen gains. These valves have a 45 seat and 30 back cut
@@Moparmaga-1 yes I see high lift gains just cut your margins between 5 to 7 ° and that will pick up your low lift flow a little bit
Put the valve in a lathe to do this when you go to 50° or more and a lot of times you will keep or even gain low in Midlift flow
@@Moparmaga-1 don't do that on the exhaust with the margins you want to radius the margin on the exhaust valve
@SalterRacingEngines yes, that's correct.
Thank you!
@@SalterRacingEngines awesome news, thank you. My cam I'm swapping to is .700 lift, we will be testing to see where it likes lash at. I think comp want somewhere around.028
If memory serves me well Grumpy Jenkins ( book ) talked about 20 thou margin
Valve speed is power. Period. The higher it lifts with the same duration,the faster it is. My opinion.
Nice
Thanks for this video.
You have any general impressions on the Dart Pro 1 Cathedral Port LS and their potential?
Appears to be great insights, thanks for sharing. Do you know if the same applies to 4 valve heads? I've subscribed.
I have a question regarding your statement about air/fuel ratios: how much power are you talking about? The reason I ask is because there are several different tests posted here on You Tube by well known and respected people that show that while there is a change, that change can be within the measurable margin of error pull to pull. That is NOT to say that other aspects of engine performance aren't affected as that certainly cannot be true, but for just a simple blast on a dyno the power ranges from running huge swings in AFR in those tests isn't a lot (and that has to be a qualifier because a "lot" is subjective and totally dependent on the application, hence my question).
@@rocketsurgeon11 it's an easy 10 hp from 11:1 AFR to 12:1 AFR. With gasoline on nearly every Dyno I have ever done and sometimes more sometimes less.
I am so confused as to how some people act like this isn't true
Ask ANY professional engine tuner for n/a engines.
I can change the carb jet to any size I want to in any direction with just two sizes and see torque and horsepower changes
If people say that's not true they either do not know what they're doing or their Dyno cannot read it Or the carburetor is pulling fuel from somewhere else and the jet changes aren't making an effect
I have seen carburetors pull fuel between the metering block and the main body and not so much from the Jets and an inexperienced carburetor person may not catch that. Whatever's going on if you take the Jets from say 50 to 52 it will change the horsepower and torque numbers and anybody who denies this is a liar
@@SalterRacingEngines thank you for your reply, sir. I am going to have to go back and see if I can find those videos to make sure I am not missing anything. Off the cuff it seems I remember that being an overall change of a full sweep of "safe" AFR, not just over a full point. This may seem like a dumb question because combustion is combustion, so would port fuel injection make any difference in what the outcome of air fuel ratio would be? Atomization is the only thing I can think of that might make a difference here. I appreciate your time. Thank you for your insight.
@rocketsurgeon11 well let me just say I'm not sure if I understand the question so I'm going to answer it the best way I know how.
If fuel gets atomized properly then it's not going to matter. One of the main benefits to fuel injection is you can control it in so many different ways that you cannot control carburetion. If you have the right fuel system you can actually change the timing of when the fuel is delivered to the cylinder and you cannot do that with a carburetor. I'm actually going to do a video on carburetion and port or EFI injection and direct injection because there are notable differences. I hope that answers your question.
@@SalterRacingEngines my apologies for not being very clear. Your answer here primes me to keep an eye out for your later discussion. That may be where the answer is. Truthfully this is too much of an in-depth thing to try and hone in over YT comments. I won't waste any more of your time here and I will just keep paying attention. Thank you again.
But does the valve not actually spend way more time at max lift due to duration?
@@brandonroseman1039 no that would not be possible
Interesting, Thank you, 👍👍👍
D Jaguar had a valve with no margin and a huge backcut, they flowed no better than the standard smaller valve
I’m a bit confused. Your saying that three thou press fit a that seven thou is tighter. A assume you mean the valve stem.
No, he means the seat is 7 thou larger than the hole in the head it's being pressed into.
He is talking about the valve seat being pressed in the head. The seat needs to be .007 larger than the hole so the seat does not fall out of the head.
If you knocked out and pressed in new valve guides and now the valves dont line up with the seats, whats the best way to solve that?
@@____MC____ great question and I hate to tell you this but every time you do something to that guy you have to read tru-up the valve seat. That is the only way
You have to cut new valve seat angles so that everything is lined up
Valve guide eccentricity pisses me off to no ends in certain circumstances. It seems very intentional in some cases.
There are heads out there that won’t tolerate a larger valve to accommodate the necessary corrections all derived from a set of guides that had run out built into them.
I’d see it differently if the situation dictated or if it was an issue that I couldn’t solve myself.
I just see it too often. I roll test new guides in some of my ammo reloading tooling. Nothing exotic or hard to obtain.
We all know right where to go to get nice straight valve guides.
It all appears to be intentional and it should not be this way.
@@hughobrien4139 unfortunately you are correct one of the first things you should do once you install the guide is run a reamer through it so that it's true and start from there
@SalterRacingEngines paying someone to redo the seats is probably worth more than the heads themselves. Theyre just a old set of cheap promaxx's i was trying to fix with garage tools. I hate to throw them in the trash after all the hrs put into them.
@@____MC____ you might get lucky lapping them in at least try it
Now I have a better reason to fix my flow bench.
Forty thousand cut on intake an exhaust valves
Tell those guys when they set some records they can come talk to you
I was trying to ask you to help me out
👍💪
I'm sensing some bruised ego there Brian on your part and its not a good look on you, I know exactly what video your refering to and all I can say is that video was brilliantly done & was easly the best video on the subject ive seen! that is pretty weak on your part because you do realize in that video he went out of his way to recomended your channel to his subscribers/viewers so nothing in his video was obviously directed towards you in any way shape of form, This youtube camshaft controversy/battle for truth started long before you showed up and has been going for at least 2 years. Now you do realize the individual im speaking of had nothing but good things to say about you, but now i dont know how long that will last due to the actions taken on your part but only time will tell if he will see this, i may just let him know about this video so he can see the kind of individual you are after he did what he did to help you... Also just a thought?? how is any of this relevant to anything "someone" said in the video that hurt your feelings/EGO, it almost seem as if your really reaching to me???
I've also noticed before you have had your feelings hurt by Daniel Powell before and couldn't help but to lash out in a video.
Ya know Brian, you might want to think about toning the EGO down with this internet stuff, because you just lost a new subscriber..
I've been following the individual who unintentionally hurt your feelings for more than 2 years, I found him by recommendation of David Vizard, also I will stand on the fact that the individual im speaking of is one of the most experienced, stand up, legit, & unegotistical dudes on this platform period, by far!!! I would even go as far as calling him a friend of mine...
,,, it's not the allergies ,,, .
Well I get ready to put together a $25000 dollar engine and everything for my car
@29 min, VERY feww shops,5%? have the tools or the ability to install seats with that much press fit. AND if you drag metal your valve job will never be stable- soooooo how do u install a 1.750? seat with .007 press fit AND NOT drag metal?AND lets keep in mide- taking a 356 casting over 300 f continues the aging process-
@@samstewart4807 simple you heat one and freeze the other
If you'd like me to do a video and show you how I'd be happy to
Jeez mate, so slow and drawn out, painful to listen to, also so busy reassuring everyone of your credentials over and over
almost like Vizard
@V8Lenny when you take away all the shitty delivery there's knowledge still to be had. Forrest for the trees....
@@arturozarate1752 yes I agree
@@V8Lenny yes
Good info, Brian. A lot of people don't realize how critical seat profiles really are. I will pay more attention to the margin from now on with my valves. Are you using just a regular 28" depression when you test this?