Managing Side Effects of Thiamine Supplementation: The Paradoxical Reaction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Some individuals experience negative reactions and the worsening of symptoms when they begin thiamine repletion therapies using the more biologically available formulations like thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD). Dr. Derrick Lonsdale calls these "paradoxical reactions".
In this video, I examine the biochemistry beyond these reactions and provide some hypotheses regarding why they happen and how to mitigate them.
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![⚠️Vitamin B1 Thiamine vs. Benfotiamine [STOP Chronic Pain]](/img/n.gif)
I just want to go back to 1962 where everything was simple you didn't have to be a scientist to wake up and feel good everyday
You said it!!!
The secret of people back then was cocaine
The year of my birth! (9/11/62) I also miss those simpler times...
I wanna go back to the 90s
Ha............. well put and so damn true.
Thiamine megadosing cured my covid long haul syndrome in five days. I literally went from being bedridden to my normal self in under a week. It truly was a miracle!
What form did you take, and how much? I and two of my teens are long haulers. Our main issue is histamine intolerance.
@@reddawn8230 Hi Angela! Three to four months into my suffering, my wife came across a Facebook long-haul forum where person after person was claiming that b1 was turning their situation around. She initially handed me 6 100mg powder capsules (600mg). She returned 45 minutes later to ask how I felt I sat up in bed and noticed that my symptoms were 50% better! I then proceeded for a week or so taking 500 mg with each meal of the day. By the end of that, I was 100% cured, now I just take a single capsule of B1 with breakfast. I thought my life was over, that it was going to be permanent. I truly hope and pray this provides relief for you. Please research it thoroughly, while I had zero adverse reactions to these megadoses everybody is different. I have read that fighting covid can seriously deplete your thiamine levels, and it's the mega dose that brings everything back into order, not just the one mg daily recommended amount. B1 is a water-soluble vitamin, so to my knowledge taking a lot of it can't hurt you as you just excrete the excess in your urine.
@@miketexas4549 that’s awesome! I have the benfotiamine form and another b-1 that I forget the name of... does it matter what kind I take?
@@reddawn8230 Definitely DO NOT megadose the benfotiamine, it is fat soluable and will likely make you sick. Stick to the Thiamine b1 and you should be fine. Also, I hear tablets are less effective as they are not as readily absorbed, and magnesium is also required for proper B1 metabolism. Be careful with magnesium, too much and it can upset your stomach. best wishes and best of luck!
@@miketexas4549 benfothiamine made my feet 🔥
It's been 3 weeks since I started a Thiamine Mega dose and WOW! It made a huge difference. It's like my gut all of a sudden decided to start working again! I worked up to 1200mg Benfotiamine, Creatine as a methyl loaner, potassium iodine & selenium, molybdenum and Glutathione for support.
How was your first week?
Christ that's a lot of supplements, if only I had enough money for all of that. :(
@@SeminarChauffeur What brand are you buying that is so expensive? I’ve seen deals on the things mentioned in that post.
@@Lilly2Gbtg ….you don’t know their financial situation.
@@SeminarChauffeur Start where you can. Start with benfotiamin and dont go that high. 300mg per day maybe + magnesium and then eat rich foods in potassium and B vitamins. Goodluck
0:00 - Introduction
2:05 - Key Points
3:33 - Other B vitamins
4:58 - Electrolytes
10:28 - Glutathione
15:41 - Methylation
20:42 - Sulfoxidation
23:09 - Conclusion
I love ❤ you. Thank u MVP!
Thank you ❤️
Thanks 🙏🏻
What about using sub lingual thiamine?
I got very dizzy and tired the next morning after taking 450 mg of Benfotiamine w Thiamin the day before (didn't take at night). Could that happen??
And how about just slowly increasing the B1?
I suffer from a tbi that happened approximately 33 years ago. Part of my brain is actually dark matter. How I can function normally is beyond me. However, I have been diagnosed with severe depression, anxiety, and panic attacks….As well as being exhausted all the time. I came across your videos today and I am beyond ecstatic this might help with some of my health issues. Time for a little experimenting!! Can’t thank you enough for your videos!!
How have these supplement protocols helped you so far?
@@BrendenNichols I am off of my antidepressant. Upped my vitamin B intake, magnesium, and other vitamins. Gradually increasing them so I don’t shock my system too much. Haven’t had any panic attacks but my anxiety has a ways to go. I overthink every thing, finding ways to manage it. Still exhausted but it has only been a few weeks. I can’t comment on my memory but will see what the future brings. I remain optimistic 🤗.
@@Randi-d1y Thank you for the response! I’m always curious to see how different everyone’s experience is with using supplements. I’ve never taken antidepressants or antianxiety medication (though I have severe anxiety some days), but I have supplemented with various B-vitamins over the last four years. I particularly supplement with vitamin B12 and less frequently with niacin, which has been beneficial to my anxiety on certain days. I tend to only use the niacin in extreme cases, otherwise I supplement with vitamin B12 and vitamin D primarily. I hope your supplement journey goes well! You’re just three weeks in and I’m sure your body is continuing to adjust to this inundation of nutrients, so you could start to feel markedly better in a week or two. Clearer mind, lessened anxiety, and higher quality sleep at night. I notice that if I go without taking B12 for longer than a week, my sleeping pattern is thrown off horribly, causing me to stay awake a lot longer than I normally would. I use vitamin D to improve my skin health, but using too much at once worsens my anxiety. This is particularly a problem with the liquid form because of how concentrated it is.
Continue on your path to optimal health and a sound and sharp mind. It may take a while, but the benefits are certainly worth it. I hope you’ll never have to rely on pharmaceutical medication again.
Yo have you tried keto I've heard people healing tbi's with keto
@@phines93 no I haven’t. I work with someone who is on that diet and what I’ve seen…..not interested in it. I appreciate the info though ☺️
This is great information but also extremely overwhelming for the laymen who wants to start a protocol to heal. I have gut issues, possibly SIBO, and tend to be super sensitive to taking anything new and there are so many options for supplements that might be beneficial with TTFD that I don't even know where to start!
Start with amount b1 you can tolerate.
Thank you for this topic. I'm starting with 100mg of thiamine. I have benfotiamine 300mg too. I'll start it next week. Best to take it with food? Exciting and a little scary. 😊
@@lenas5613lol you saw a chick and started to ask her. Lmao 😂
Benfotiamine made my GERD worse💔
@@ahlaali7934 what’s gerd?
Holy crap, I'm SO CONFUSED!! Here I thought there was hope for me, and that B1 might be the answer, but this video is so over my head and now I'm more confused than ever. I guess i won't be trying this anytime soon 😭
The info in this video is for outliers who respond negatively. I have a video called "How to start mega dose thiamine" and it is quite simple
@@EONutrition
I will watch that one, thank you. I was watching this video so that if I decide to try the B1, I would know what to expect if I responded negatively, but it's just too confusing.
Same here..confused and now frustrated too.
@@boe1956yep, just when you think you understand all the risks involved, you watch another video & realize you didn't actually know much. And you also realize that if you do start taking Thiamine and you experience complications, you won't be able to get help from Doctors because they are clueless so you'll be left to try & figure things out on your own! And I know that not everyone will experience complications but there's no way to know if you're part of the small percentage of people who will actually experience complications!
Feel the same. I have watched many videos about how good thiamine is. Then I saw a comment from a woman who got a lot of hair loss and started to search for side effects and now I instead feel afraid to try 😅
Man your work on thiamine has changed my life. Thank you man! Glad you're back.
haven't you stopped the carnivore diet?
@@ekkekristo I'm not Frank lol
@@frankiesfairyboytwinkclub Identity theft is not a joke, Jim! Millions suffer every day!
B1 100mg twice morning took two days to go from wheel chair and barely stepping forward to walking three miles in one day . Parkinson’s med new start didn’t do anything. Try it as it could change your walking ability.
😊
Did you have to take any of the other supplements he talks about?
Thank you so much for this information Elliot. I started to increase thiamine a few days ago, and have started to experience those symptoms. Good to know what it is and why. Very grateful for your incredible knowledge.Thank you😀
For what reason did you take thiamine?
So interesting. Thank you. I'm chronically ill and at my worst I was bedridden for 8 years. I was trying for years (3) to take folate. I couldn't get above a crumb without debilitating side effects, and yet, I'd developed folate related anemia (megaloblastic). Last year the doctor didn't listen to me at that appointment and wrote a script for a high dose of Folic Acid. I threw that out because I have a homozygous MTHFR mutation. Within a week or so it dawned on me (by stumbling onto some information) that, despite having normal blood serum levels of magnesium, I was deficient. I started supplementing (had avoided magnesium supplementation because I have CKD - idiopathic... likely from chronic folate deficiency) and immediately could take whatever amount of Folate I wanted. My health improved a tiny bit. (I've tried benfotiamine and haven't found it helpful, though I'm still taking 100mg a day.)
Have just stumbled onto to the thiamine connection and given my past history, including things that helped me get better but were compounded by too many variables at the time for me to sort out what had and hadn't helped, and defects in TPP (loads of homozygous TPK-1 mutations), transketolase mutations, and a couple of mutations associated with Thiamine-Responsive Megaloblastic Anemia Syndrome and Thiamine Metabolism Dysfunction Syndrome 5, this makes perfect sense. I also have mutated SLC19A3 genes - out of 17 SNPS two are homozygous mutations, four are heterozygous, and with three there's not enough information.
I've also had a very slow heart rate and low blood pressure all of my life and ridiculously slow rate in recent years (in the 30s and lower 40s). Diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivities and ME/CFS... a lot of the symptoms of Beri Beri fit with that. I'd looked at wet Beri Beri before (given heart symptoms that show up as nothing) but thought, "Surely a doctor would have considered this." I could still have ME/CFS (I have 5 mutations of a gene that people who are severe with ME/CFS typically have 3 - yet, ME/CFS can happen to almost anyone as the mutations are common), but this looks promising and I have supplements on order. I also wonder if so many of us with ME/CFS who have had very slow onset aren't deficient in thiamin. I don't have potassium wasting because I take olmesartan which is potassium sparing and between that and an ACE mutation, I have to watch my potassium. So, I'm good there. I have to take sodium because of that and because I have unexplained salt wasting (a little known symptom of a thiamine deficiency can be salt wasting). I'm thinking of going off of olmesartan because it increases my fatigue.
I'm also diagnosed autistic and to be fair I have genes for the same. Some of the B1 genes that are mutated are also related to a biotin deficiency and based on my nails and how much biotin I take just to keep them from painfully tearing and splitting, my body's doing a poor job with that vitamin as well (they've gotten a bit better with my being able to consume folate). Hopefully, thiamin can help with that process.
I'm in my mid 60s and have been noticeably unwell and without stamina since I was 8 and was the working sick until I became seriously ill / disabled 19 years ago. When you've been this sick for so long, it feels dangerous to have hope, but I am hopeful.
I am so glad I stumbled onto information about this and your video.
When I take NAC, it turns the soles of my feet purple red and makes them very hot and incredibly itchy. I can nebulize reduced glutathione (one of the best ways to get it). I hadn't noticed any real benefit before, but perhaps with thiamine, I'll finally see some.
Good luck. Its horrible feeling this type of chronic illness. Its very socially isolating as well.
@@universaltruth2025 Thanks, and yes, it's terribly isolating. And many people experience friend and partner flight and even family flight. In a way, Covid isolation helped me come to grips with it and I'm more comfortable with the years of isolation that I've been enduring.
@@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS I’m doing nebulized glutathione too. I have severe pots and cfs bedridden 12 yrs.
I’m up to 225 mg hcl thiamine. I have tried several times to take it I try the other forms I couldn’t tolerate they made me so much more fatigued. But finally it seems like I’m tolerating I’m going slow. I use mag taurate and mag citrate. I try to get my potassium from food coconut water and a goat mineral whey powder. I take a multivitamin and a little bit of a B complex. I was using NAC for a couple months but I started having very gritty feeling eyes like something was in them all the time I discovered that NAC really dries you out that’s why they use it for lung infections and mucus. I stopped using it and it cleared right up. Dr Ben lynch says he if you need glutathione you should just take it and not NAC
Hi Madison, thanks for sharing your story and I'm sorry you e had to deal with this for so long.
I'm interested in what are the mutations for the thiamine anemia response? I've had the genetic testing, but don't recall anything about thiamine deficiency or anemia, though I've suffered from both. Also have been tired my entire life. I don't thin I process sulfur well, in fact have the SNP for that.
My nails have become terrible over the past 7 years. They were splitting terribly in 2014, until I started taking folate daily. But in the past 2-3 years they have started to flatten and I fear spooning. When I try to supplement with Seeking Health Folate, I become irritable.
I hope you'll see this and share how much folate you take and how long it took to help your nails. I'd really love to figure some of this stuff out before I croak, because the past five years have been especially crummy. TIA.
Great work E.O., yesterday I increase Benfotiamine from 500 mg to 1000 mg and I experienced many of the side effects You mention here the symptoms subsided after I took NAC 600mg , the major difference in my protocol was the absence of CDP coline
that I was taking regularly and also the addition of a probiotic suppliment, so I will be adding potassium rich food and a mythyl door suppliment, thanks for sharing
appreciated 👍👍👍!!!
What is the NAC600?
@@larryestrada5418 NAC stands for N Acetyl L Cysteine, Cysteine is an amino acid with an Acetyl group attached to it for making it more bioavailable, 600 is for dose i.e. 600mg , it's a potent anti oxidant which is the rate limiting substance for the synthesis of Glutathione an endogenous anti oxidant present in every living cell of our body !!!
@@bhupendranath2010 Thank you for responding.
@@bhupendranath2010 thank you for the explanation. Good job
Thanks for sharing yours user experience, it helps, very many thanks to Dr Elliott, loooong live
Take a high quality B COMPLEX and most of your risk will be gone. Add some magnesium, some "low salt" (i.e. potassium salt) and high-selenium foods and you're set.
@@mercychesed4104 I was told to never take calcium.
@@mercychesed4104 IT WAS DR ERIC BERG.
@@mercychesed4104 how did you come to understand this? And who advised you along the way?
@@mercychesed4104 since everyone is different you mean it's the only combination that works for you 🤔
@@mercychesed4104 this info was gratefully received - even if I don’t know much about all this. Thank you.
Level 10 Brilliant. Elliot is a genius for this type of information. Bless him!
I slowly started this.. and slowly highten the dose.. no probs here, just positive effects.(Chronic Lyme and co) Thank You for this info about thiamine.. its greatly improved my life in ALL ways❣️😌👌🏼.. much Love 👋🏼☺️🇸🇪
Increase your vit c for Lyme...
Upto 60 gm a day
Thank you 🙏
Melatonin helps to recycle GSSH to GSH and other products of oxidative stress. Probably could lower the paradoxical effect.
Genius.. This video filled in all the blanks I had about Thiamine and it's derivatives. THANK YOU!!
I'd just like to post a warning for anyone looking to boost their methylation:
Consider every option over SAMe (and add Creatine to the list of considerations since it is probably the most effective methylation booster.) SAMe is a functional SSRI, even though you don't need a prescription for it. I had full on SSRI withdrawal symptoms, including electric zaps, after coming off of it, as well as post-SSRI sexual dysfunction syndrome that took quite a while to resolve (and it's my understanding this could become permanent in some people.) Please be careful with it. Do a lot of research. (I was only on 400mg a day, too, which is considered a low dose.)
Thank you for the video, though, Elliot. It's nice to have a list of important cofactors in one place for reference, and the Riboflavin/Niacin influences were new to me. I've only used Benfotiamine so far (to immediate and optimistic results,) but am looking to add TTFD to address (at least more quickly?) the stubborn mental symptoms. This information was helpful for my preparation.
That is actually very interesting as I take Lexapro. I am also taking methycobalamin 100mcg per day, 400mcg Calcium-L-Methylfolate, 5g Creatinemonohydrat, 50mg TMG/Betaine and 10mg CDP-Choline daily alongside it.. is this dangerous? Because I read that SSRI deplete the body of B12 and Folate
Are they even strong enough as Methyldonators to interact with Escitaloprame? I make sure that I don't take them together but with at least 2 hours in between
What do you think it was, specific to you, that led to SAMe causing such a negative reaction?
Also, if TTFD can deplete SAMe, what other option would you recommend to reverse that?
I have alopecia, including no eyelashes, no eyebrows, no nasal hairs. After using samE 200-400 mg for fibromyalgia, I was at least able to grow eyelashes, which are very protective of the eyes and a few eyebrows, at least enough to color in.
The only brands that seem to benefit were Life Extension Foundation, and Nature Made. It also helps my fibromyalgia, and I had no problem with it.
@@briandrescher5663 Might not be anything specific to me. There is an entire forum board I found, after the fact, with hundreds of testimonials to similar experience with SAMe (though most were on higher dosage than I.) I certainly have nervous system issues induced by B6 toxicity (multivitamin dose over a long time,) that could have made me more sensitive to SAMe's modulatory effects. Anhedonia is definitely a common side effect of SAMe, however, as well as with other SSRIs. It's worth noting that just because something isn't prescription, doesn't necessarily mean it is weaker. Take Quercetin, for instance. They still haven't decided (in studies) on how effective the mast cell stabilizing properties are, but I know that for myself, and many others, it's probably the most effective antihistamine I've ever tried (through its mcs properties.) And a number of studies indicate SAMe working for patients who otherwise do not respond well to common SSRIs, either speaking to a different mechanism of action or increased efficacy in responders.
So creatine over SAMe?
Very enlightening information. I was in the ER several years ago with heart attack symptoms. I did not have a heart attack per se and the symptoms might have been caused by critical deficiencies. Lab analysis of my serum mineral levels revealed my potassium level was within 2% of the danger threshold for heart complications. This was a very perplexing finding since my diet included adequate sources of potassium. Since then I added potassium supplementation and have been ok (I think). It never occurred to me the root cause might have been B-1 deficiency. Recently I had to discontinue gabapentin and decided to try benfotiamine. I experienced profound improvements not only with nerve pain, but also with my carbohydrate metabolism. The scope and magnitude of these improvements leaves me wondering if the root cause of most of my health issues has been B-1 deficiency all along. It's going to be part of my routine lab panels from now on.
How is your metabolism now I am having same issues I take Benfortamine but do not know if it's the correct one, because I don't feel too much of a difference! Can you please share what brand and dosage are you taking. Thank you so much in advance!
Need magnesium to absorb potassium
Elliot, appreciate all your work. These are great information. Wishing you a loooooong & happy life.
Also, we need glutathione to absorb copper and we need copper to make DAO and MAO as well as many neurotransmiters. Sulfur depletes copper and in that case it will deplete all of the above, so it will cause histamine problems as well as other problems.
Copper is also needed for thiamine absorption.
HTH!
Thanks for sharing!
@@tiima98.93 You are welcome. Just keep in mind that you also need molybdenum to incorporate copper inyo ceruloplasmin. Copper deficiency is rare and molybdenum very very often.
@@SokTamo Yess i've ordered molybdenum already ! zinc and NAC alone helped histamine issues, molybdenum should regulate copper better :)
@@tiima98.93 nice! Its always better to get vitamins and minerals from food, especially zinc, calcium, magnesium. They all can, as supplements, interacts with other minerals, especially with molybdenum.
About molydenum, its always better to take sodium molybdate over glycinate. But anything is better than nothing.
@@SokTamo yes true. I only take low dose zinc (10 mg) to avoid those imbalances :) copper from dark chocolate. and thanks for the molybdenum recommendation, that's the one I ordered ! ionic sodium molybdate
Wow, you are a blessing. Practically, everything you’re covering I experienced recently after increasing my B1. It was causing depression, anxiety and the whole gambit. Wow. Thank you!!
My IBS-D, anxiety and panic have been greatly improved taking B1 (thiamine mononitrate) 500 mg twice a day most days. I plan to taper off and take a few times a week and see if anything changes. I took methylated b complex for a couple of weeks but started to feel edgy so I stopped that. I always take 400 mg of magnesium glycinate daily for several years. I also use lots of pink salt.
I do believe in B vitamins as therapy for many issues. I was even told by MD to take B1 when I had covid. Love your channel.
Generally, they say you continue high dose until your symptoms are gone completely, or are where you are comfortable with them remaining. Once you taper down to a maintenance level, you will, at least as I understand it, stop seeing improvement (but shouldn't see a decline, either.) This is particularly the case with neurological or brain-based symptoms that require saturation in the brain (which takes consistent high dosing over a long time, though TTFD can potentially shortcut it.)
You have a phenomenal doctor then. Counted yourself BLESSED! Happy for you!! :)
WhT all is in pink salt??
@@burningbright5039 Himalayan pink salt ; sodium chloride with trace presence of calcium , iron, zinc, chromium, magnesium, and sulfate- easy to get at your regular grocery store in a large container - look up benefits, try- buy accordingly.
hows it going now?
So I don’t have this problem with thiamine, but sometimes magnesium will cause me muscle spasms and tension, and give me insomnia. I’ve found changing the type of magnesium and how it’s absorbed helps- citrate, and through the skin or a drink works better than other forms in pill form. Having potassium and B1 also helps me absorb magnesium better I think. Funny how we all work just a little bit differently!
Very very helpful. Explains so much of my difficulties and what to watch when raising benfotiamine. THANK YOU.
For what reason did you take thiamine?
Elliott, this is such a special channel!
Thank you for the information Elliot.
What is considered a high dosage for a male and female of .Benfotamine ?
Also can you recommend the best mineral or formulation containing all the necessary supporting minerals including magnesium potassium etc pls ..
We have to keep in mind that in food intake potassium is also present.
so what is the ideal potassium necessary for an active person and say awfully paralyzed person ?
Suddenly taking benfotamine has become scary .. .after listening to the complex orixesing and requirements to enable its efficacy..
What would be a safe dosage ..for someone with neurological issues ?
Checking electrolytes is not easy for general folks ..
but the symptoms you explained us helpful.
Kesol 15 is a liquid ..can you equate evaluate in tsp how much 1 tsp is really in terms of mg?
also which is the best form of glutathione older folks can use to supplement ?
Is 400mg benforamine for a paralyzed male high ?
Any form of Thiamine gives me a lot of energy - but also causes sleeping problems. I can't sleep for more than 2 hours at night.
I can't turn my brain off while supplementing Thiamine.
The only thing that can counteract Thiamine for me would be Inositol and Alpha GPC (acetylcholine).
Magnesium helps, but not as much...
I will proceed to watching the video now.
Thank you Elliot
@16:38 he describes your symptoms
Inositol did nothing to shut my brain off, when I took 16 gram a day... without taking mega dose of anything
Does thiamine give you sleeping problems even when taken in the morning?
@@ChristianChase7 Yes:/
@@WS-ij4ey I dont get it though. I have all the symptoms of an overmethylator, yet he says the SAMe would work for my Thiamine side effects.
I'm confused :(
Three days so far taking 1.2g sulbutiamine. So far so good. First two days, felt good for 2-3 hours afterwards, gradually tending into a kind of excess fatigue (I'm dealing with some chronic fatigue, migraines, insomnia). Yesterday I took a lot more multivitamins, humic/fulvic acid, and other supplements with it, this time mixed into my protein smoothie and just before some exercise; definitely felt better throughout the afternoon and evening.
It's early in, but I'm hoping this will help "reset" something in my metabolism.
Hope you're doing better
Increase vit c and salt
How's the status?
Hey folks. Simple update - I don't remember the details too well. I think I went a couple of weeks on this, 2-3 weeks. Not sure now. No definite results, though if I had to guess, I'd go with a subtle body intuition says it was good, but not a crucial factor for me.
Overall I have made some recovery in the interim, and still a ways to go. I've battled a serious tooth infection, went keto for a few weeks and cut back severely on sugars for several months. I don't eat a conventional diet anyways in teens of processed food, almost entirely eggs, meat, vegetables, and protein shakes (organic milk, cream, grassfed whey concentrate, no artificial sweeteners etc).
I got more regular home workouts, made an infrared sauna last June, and did get fairly regular with cold tub dips.
I still had a lot of serious health challenges along the way, but definitely improved this fall in reduction in migraines & headaches, and slightly improved consistency of sleep - still consistently below normal levels.
If you want to know more just ask, maybe check out my TH-cam channel, mostly just kittens for now but I'm thinking of starting to vlog on the healing journey.
@@MikePeiman I used to get migraines often until I cut out grains. Also I’ve just discovered how “the healthy” foods I was eating as keto like greens, nuts, buckwheat etc contain oxalates and my body doesn’t get rid of that buildup and causes major pain. I’m now working through the dumping of them and have just started thiamine today to hopefully help with other issues. Good luck with your health improvement.
Vitamin A toxicity underlies a lot of these problems. Molybdinum and thiamine both support the detoxification pathways the body needs to get rid of retinoic acid. Retinoic acid also depletes them, so supplementing with them will shore up these detox pathways.
Do you believe vitamin A is an antinutrient?
@Sling Blade Do a web search for Greg Genereux and Vitamin A toxicity. He's got a blog and several books you can download for free and read. The primary one where he lays out the case for it not being a vitamin but a toxin that is causing all kinds of auto-immune problems is called Extinguishing the Fires of Hell. There's a link right at the top of his blog, My Books, where you can find it.
I assume you mean vit A toxicity from synthetic supplements?
If vitamin A is a toxin why all hunters crave organ and liver meat.
vitamin A becomes a toxin I believe when the liver is overflowed with it and cannot process the excess. Ordinarily, people wont have an issue with Vit A until this spillover occurs. Also, interesting that B1 is involved in retinoic acid detox... It makes sense that deficiencies would lead to Vit A toxicity quicker.. Zinc and copper are also involved in binding Vit A.
Major skin burning and stress through body. Took b1 for 6 months but ignored side effects till it's really scary. Nice to see the vid but when he said here are all the things to make sure glutathione status is good before you go on to a therapeutic dose made me happy(for the info) but also upset. Trying to add a bunch of new supplements in this poor state is stressful.
@@jbeauty4150 I'm glad I take benfotiamine b1 and 1/8 of an active b complex (super B-Complex) most days at least by Igennus but balancing not taking too much is still incredibly difficult. Daily scared I'm gonna screw up the amounts although I know I'd be screwed if I stop taking it all together. I have ME/CFS so I'm probably different than most. Really wish there was better testing and someone smart I could talk through regularly but it is what it is. I do wonder why my body doesn't make/absorb enough in the first place is the real question. I will say I've found active b complex way better than inactive b complex.
@@jbeauty4150 I did mention the one I take. It's called Super B Complex by Igennus. I get it off Amazon and cut the pills into 1/8 tablets. I'm confused though, you took 300-600 mg of benfo daily with no affect but feel worse after a b-complex? So it's the other b-vitamins giving you side effects? Like I said, I felt like sh*t after taking a regular non active b complex so maybe that's it.
@@jbeauty4150 I think we're all different so I'd go with your gut. B-comp makes me shaky and weak if I take too much but I wouldn't be able to move w/out it so even if there are some bad side effects it may be worth it. Only other thing I'd say is I'm not convinced mega dosing is a great idea. Especially w/out more proof it works. I'm convinced that my body won't just adjust to it. Sorry I can't be more helpful. If I was smarter, I'd already have fixed my own issues.
@@jbeauty4150 You're welcome. In my terrible state one of the few things I find meaningful in my life is trying to help others less experienced navigate this sh*t. I'll just say that since benfotiamine b1 is fat soluable(unlike other b vitamins), I believe it builds up and doesn't HAVE to be a daily thing. I started around 75 mg for a few months and now I'm down to only like 15mg per day. Agree, you might have just been depleted. Although taking a lot uses up the other b vitamins which is why I can't take any b1 without a little b complex as well nowadays. Lastly, not to be too pushy, but you probably want ACTIVE B vitamins as regular b complex really did not help me.
Human bodies are chemistry kit's on leg's.
The science is brain 🧠 stressing stuff, and for a compromised fibro-brain it's overwhelming!!! But it's brought the possibility of trialling yet another! avenue of systemically tinkering with a physical-form that's misbehaving!
Thankyou 🙏
Fascinating video thank you. I'm a nurse so I think that helped me understand it all :D you explained it very well though 👏🏼 Im megadosing to hopefully help my persistent methane dominant SIBO. I feel brighter and able to concentrate better so far. Helping my constipation and think I have small amounts of die off in stool🎉
Did it help you ?
Update?
@@TheRootedBlueprintI'm guessing you have or had sibo too and we're considering trying high dose Thiamine? Did you try it & did it help?
thank you for using your intelligence for greater good, this information is gold.
I’m pretty savvy with vitamin supplements herbs etc.… I’ve been doing this for a while and methylation has got to be one of the most confusing and complicated conditions of all of them. everything you’re saying sounds very familiar like I know I could understand it, but unraveling the puzzle takes me in so many different directions I can’t really put it together well. I do have a lot of good information from my years of trying different things and a pretty good lock on my symptoms. Wish I could get a consult with you! I would definitely know what to do if pointed in the right direction, I have all the supplements! Lol
Insomnia, headache, tachycardia, anxiety, palpitations??!?! Yeah ok no. I think I’ll not dose myself with insane amounts of anything thanks. I don’t understand why people think that just because it’s really bad to be too low in a certain nutrient, that it’s always better to take a high dose so you can have too much of that same nutrient. Talk about oversimplification.
What I've noticed is all over the counter vitamins are "mega dose" size capsules. The RDA (recommended daily amount) is always about 1600% for every vitamin. You can't split the vitamin in half, or make it smaller, and it's always a giant horse pill. The vitamin industry almost seems inherently designed to prevent people from being able to take the vitamins. If vitamins were 1/10th the size they are now, with fractional amounts, it would be far safer. The body is thrown wildly out of balance when you begin supplementation, and taking smaller doses would seem to mitigate every side effect.
Unfortunately, that last bit is incorrect.
With B1, the therapeutic dose is often grams, not milligrams
The drug store vitamins One a Day centrum etc are made by the drug companies they often have binders which inhibit absorption along with low stomach acid most people don't really absorb much this is verified often times by plumbers who've seen and digested pills.
Don’t buy over the counter vitamins.
@@EONutrition True! Though I believe Benfo only requires 300-600 mg due to its much higher absorption (should be equal to 1.5g-3g.) And TTFD, of course, imo, should just be used for its brain access... Trying to supplement the entirety of your B1 in TTFD form sounds like a whole list of possible problems due to its various demands.
Thank you for this info. I am confused though about why even deal with all these other cofactors to prevent the side effects of high dose thiamine when using the newer ttfd synthetic forms? Why not just avoid these issues by simply using thiamine hcl? Most studies about cfs and fibromyalg8a and thiamine use the hcl form between 600 to 1800mg.
It sounds like people are overcomplicating this and causing uneccesary problems.
I’ve worked so hard to rebuild my health, I started benfotamine recently and I’ve felt like absolute crap over the last week.
Same here with ttdf
@@ratoncitoification yeah I’ve tried twice now and each time it totally wipes out all the gains I’ve made in the last 12 months.
I tried everything to alleviate it, everything eo suggests and it did nothing.
It’s not worth it imo
I will be trying your
Thiamax soon , so this
Is all very useful info.
Thank you.
EONutrition I've been dosing everything you've listed(except GSH) for almost 2 months now. I'm about to take the plunge. I will keep you posted.
How you getting on?
@@TheReminderChannnel I stopped two weeks ago. I think the NAC I was taking started moving something to the point of not being able to function. The thiol "thing" is a very real thing so if you decide to start playing with your metabolism start small and increase dosages incrementally.
Also, added garlic and onion into meals regularly along with the NAC. Going to give it another week before resuming. I will eventually start the TTFD I just do not know when.
@@anonymousguest9290 thanks buddy, hope it goes well 💪
@@anonymousguest9290 following ;)
@@anonymousguest9290 check yourself for mercury
Brother you summed up everything I was researching today. Niacin NAC glycine glutathione thiamine Babin geberal and added rest of picture
Bss really need balance
ppl fix one thing with Bx than after 2 years a problem of second deficiency
Histamine WOW I love this channel already!!!
This is SO complicated!!! Why would one take TTDF if they can get the same benefits from other types of thiamine?
Some people will only see improvements on TTFD
Eliot you are a gem sir. Thanks again for the education.
What are the symptoms if you have achieved Thiamine saturation and continue to take larger doses?
Great question! Have you found the answer to this. I'm a bit skeptical of taking high doses for a longer period of time and think this could lead to further imbalances.
@@cavallopazzo340 I have not received an answer to this question unfortunately.
Damn Elliott I wish you were my Dr.... fibromyalgia and fog means I understood what you were saying but I jez know im gunna hafto go thru thus vid again ..screen shots and notes. . Dosent harm you being great eye candy. Thanks for your work.x
I too high dose and felt very weird indeed maybe slight blue lips made me feel anxious about toxicity damage
Update?
Can you please also talk to the lay person after you use a medical word follow up with a short meaning after it. That would help the understanding .
I'll need to listen to this a few more times
You have to have a masters to understand what he’s talking about. LOL
I'm on my 5th time. Brain fog doesn't help either
Interestingly enough, allithiamine use to give me tons of energy rather consistently. Then 1 day I took ivermectin. About 3 weeks later I started supplementing allithiamine again... but suddenly it made me extremely, extremely tired. I tried to fight through the fatigue for 2 weeks, it never improved. I now suspect I may have had parasites eating up my thiamine. And now that they're gone, I feel like I'm ODn on allithiamine. For whatever reason the effect changed from excitatory which I liked, to extremely sedative like a benzo which I hate. I love vitamins but people need to talk more about the concept of ODn on vitamins. You would never get 2-3gms of thiamine in any food, never in nature. Maybe it makes sense to cycle high amounts in short bursts. But taking high doses of thiamine for yrs makes no sense at all. Even the highest sources of thiamine like garlic, you'd have to eat lbs of raw garlic a day to get lots of thiamine & it still wouldn't be close to these supraphysiological levels. I respect Dr Londsale and Chandler Marrs but I suspect more people are ODn on thiamine now than are actually deficient.
Taking thiamine deplete other things in the body maybe that’s why
Unfortunately, studies have shown that fixing certain B deficiencies is not straight forward. You cannot just get adequate amounts from food and slowly return to health. You may stop progression, but the only way to re-activate the downregulated functions (at least based on the studies,) has been high-dose over a long period of time. Think of it this way... Every cell has a metabolism. What happens when someone restricts calories (as in anorexia) for a very long time? Their metabolism shuts down and downregulates. The only way to get it going again is by long-term caloric excess, which tells the body that food will no longer be hard to find, and it is free to go wild. Eventually, over steady increases of food (or doses in the case of B1) the body keeps adjusting to match, and eventually you have a restored metabolism (or in the case of B1, cellular metabolism.)
This varies in time for different people. It's my understanding that once your symptoms have completely disappeared, you can drop down to a maintenance dose and be fine. This is kind of the ideal to shoot for. No need to take 3g a day of THI HCL if you have zero symptoms. That just adds stress to the cells. But to get to that point, if you were chronically deficient over time, it can take months or years, depending on dose and other factors I'm sure.
So is this a college class in chemistry. I got a little of it but I also had flash backs of college biology. Got a better understanding with the comments.
Honestly, I found this video to be so overwhelming. I have POTS and I thought I was doing the right thing by taking 1,800 mgs of Thiamine. But, there are clearly so many things that can go wrong, and so many things that need to be done to adjust for this high dose. I am on disability and can’t afford all of the supplements needed just to address the effects of high dose B1.
What I don’t understand is, if high dose B1 is so curative then why does it cause such significant imbalances? It seems like the body is struggling to handle such a high dose. If it helps so much then why does it throw things so far out of balance?
Same
From what I’ve learned, is that you should gradually go higher and that the adjustment and reaction period is about 1 week, for every time you increase. Unfortunately low doses that we don’t feel, will not help people that are deficient and even more for those of us that are dependent.
I believe the reason it helps but also causes other issues is because the body doesn’t actually need that quantity of thiamine, it just has an issue using the thiamine you get. So to remedy the absorption issue you take a mega dose. This doesn’t address the underlying cause of why your body struggles to use thiamine, though! The body isn’t meant to intake such high quantities, so while this solutions works to overcome the absorption issue, it messes with those absorption pathways that other nutrients need to use.
The B vitamins, like the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, K, E), have such tremendous and complex effects in every system throughout the body. Many of these vitamins act more like hormones than mere nutrients. That is to say they are master molecules that direct and regulate other nutrients. As for the side effects of high dose B1, it shouldn't be too expensive. Mainly, all you need to add in is some inexpensive mineral supplements like magnesium and electrolytes. Most multivitamins would cover the main minerals.
In addition to high dose of thiamine you also need high dose of magnesium and potassium, selenium (just couple of Brazil nuts) and vitamin D with K2 along with a balanced diet. Jesus bore 39 stripes for all our diseases. All the deficiencies in our bodies he took it upon His body so that by His stripes you are healed. I pray the healing power of Jesus touch you and heal you of POTS and any disability and deficiencies in your body in Jesus name. Amen
i keep eating up your videos. good job, young man. youre bearing good fruit.
imma just do some of these and hope for the best
After learning about thiamine I was sure I am so deficient in it. In March 2020, I got really sick from the foods I ate ( refined carbs, Powerades, fruit juices) very high in carbs. Until Jan 2022 I had no Idea what is going on. I have severe sinusitis, Bloating specially from Salicylates & phenols (can't even have any veg & fruit without burping) which was causing Esphogas damage & I was on pantoprazole for it. Other issues like tingling & numbness of hands & feets, I recently noticed blood sugar was at 7.2 in last blood test which was moving towards prediabetic, low energy, brain fog, blurry Vision etc & etc. Went to ENT twice , allergy test nothing helped.
It impacted my life so much that I used to be really fit, healthy, muscler body but I couldn't understand why on high carb/ calorie diet my weight was not going up but was going down continuously. I almost lost 9kg in 1.5 year. All the blood tests, Sibo, H Pylori test was Ok. So I left the salicylates & phenols completely out of my diet & felt better with bloating & sinus issues.
But that's not the long term plan.
So I keep digging out until I found Elliot's & Dr Berg's videos on B1.
I can confidently say that BENFOTIAMINE & TTFD ( THIAMAX) will give you issues when you first start them. The reason is that your thiamine levels are very very low and BENFOTIAMINE has BENZOYL in it. What it means that When thiamine is very low Benzoic acid to hippurate conjugation is inhibited because thiamine is required for normal conjugation. Once you keep taking it for week or 2 & you will build up thiamine in your body this process with normalized.
Same with THIAMAX it has Sulphites in it which actually depletes thiamine. It means your body already had literally no thiamine & you adding sulphites in it & definitely it will give you some paradoxical symptoms until thiamine start kicking in.
On the other hand, Thiamine HCL doesn't have any of it. So people tend to absorb it symptom free. But problem is that it is water souble & eliminated in urine in excess.
If you want to build the Thiamine levels better to take Fat Souble one so that body can store it if in excess.
I started with Thiamine HCL for 2 weeks & now on Benfotiamine 1500mg & yes I am having Paradoxical symptoms but I am pretty sure once Thiamine level builds up in body it will be All right.
I will update how it goes
Question. So you take 1500 mgs of bentothiamine now? How much HCL were you taking? Do you take or do anything to alleviate the horrible symptoms?
@@misterketofast3855 B1 deficiency will lead you to numerous diseases such as diabetes, Dementia, Acid Reflux or bloating etc etc. For example if Acid Reflux don't stop it will slowly progress to barrets esphogus. I only named few, since May 2020 I got too sick from very fit & healthy. I had lot of issues first started with sneezing, runny nose then it turns to Severe Sinusitis. Excessive bloating which was causing Esphogas damage and I was on pantoprazole 40mg. But still get the bloating. I lost 7kg muscles over 20 months & 10kg in total weight.
The problem is now a days we concentrate on Macro nutrients( Protein, Fat, Carbs) but not on micro nutrients(Vitamins & minerals) which are required to digest the food.
For example- if you eat refined carbs it is pretty much simple carbs with very little vitamines in it. So over the time when you do that, you deplete vitamins out of your body. Specially Magnesium & B1 Thiamine & YOU become deficient. The more deficient you get less the foods you will tolerate.
I have done too many blood tests, SIBO, Allegry test, seen ENT nothing helped. But I kept digging out the reason behind all the sudden problems. In Feb 2022 I started with Thiamine HCL with 800mg a day to 1500mg. I seen improvement in Acid Reflux. Then 2nd week i stared 600mg benfotiamine which is fat souble it pretty much stopped the acid reflux & bloating. My mind is clearing as well. I have tinnitus which is nerve damage in ear started getting lot better. I am now on 1800mg benfotiamine & 1200mg thiamine HCL.
For complete healing I think I should must supplement it for 6 months. This vitamin is by far the most important vitamin in our body as per my research which get depleted by too many factors and RDA is only 1.2mg.
In modern diet it should be supplemented 100mg for even healthy person to keep the balance of it for proper function of its cofactors
thanks for the information. i wish you the best with your healing.
@@GurvinderSingh-vg1pq how is everything going now with your progress?
@@GurvinderSingh-vg1pq Interesting you say all that because I switched to Benfotiamine because I have neuropathy and TTFD was still effective but I figure since Benfotiamine is. Fat soluble it be more beneficial I’m still having slight paradoxical reaction 2.5 weeks after starting but I’m getting used to it.
The only question I have, is what is interrupting the use of thiamine. Eg heavy metals, which then attracts parasites, which then steals vitamin b’s.
So maybe those need addressed first, before trying this, I would think.
Ur uses as an interim, to reduce symptoms, get functional, and then address those at the same time, and then hopefully you could come off the thiamine.
Can the negative side affects be detox reactions? If the mitochondria starts working it and the cell may be dumping out toxins
Good work. Its never 1 thing and you covered all sides.
Took 750mg for a few days then I started to feel too relaxed and now I’m on 500mg and feel much better
What brand and details please?
@@katiejon17 Brand: Life Extension
Name: Mega Benfotiamine 250mg
@@katiejon17 this supplement is a miracle cure for nerve function. I had blurry vison for about 2 months because of high blood sugar as I’m type 1 diabetic. I took 750mg the first day and the next morning my vision was crystal clear. I really couldn’t believe it.
Great info - follow up question which forms of magnesium do you recommend? Glycinate or threonate? Same with potassium would it be a citrate or the gluconate?
any supplements i take now i dont take the really high dose ones. takes a lot of research to try and get the right level and interactions between different ones as you pointed out can be problematic . also one size does not fit all. so thanks for this video. still a bit of a minefield but better to be informed than have no idea about how they work
There are so good questions asked here really hope you answer them it would really help us to be safe and get good results
I have been taking thiamine for several months. I cannot be without it. It makes a huge difference in how I feel. It helps my eye pain, fatigue, reactions to food, etc. The only problem is that I get so hungry and crave so many carbs. If i go a day without it I feel full and dont overeat. If i take it, even 100mg i get so hungry all day and have major cravings. Any thoughts on the excess hunger? Thanks so much! Keep up the great work!
Excessive hunger seems good, considering most people with a thiamine deficiency feel the exact opposite.
@@Josue-xd5ru Thank you for the reply! That is interesting. I guess for so many years I was not hungry at all. Now to feel hungry constantly is a very new feeling. Thank you!
Did it increase your weight?
Und did improve your digestion?
Cause I suffer from that
Please replay
Greetings
Eat whole foods plant based see if it helps. Complex carbs and clean proteins like legumes, lentils, etc.
Excessive hunger is a symptom of not getting enough high nutrient foods. Instead of eating processed nutrient devoid man-made foods, eat fatty meats, animal organs, butter, eggs. Our diets should consist mainly of animal foods and small amounts of well cooked veggies like broccoli, asparagus, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, etc. Avoid starchy high carb veggies; have those sparingly. Fruit very rarely (except avocado). You will notice your hunger go down as your body gets nourished.
I had the worst stomach cramps in my life when I started B1 (benfotiamine), I can't walk upright for a more than a week. The cramps lasted 3 weeks. It did reverse most of my issues. Just sharing my experience.
Was it worth it in the end?
And what do you think caused the cramping?
@@zoezzzarko1117 worth it absolutely. Well, what do I think based on my absolute pure guess, I had slow motility and GI issues. So probably B1 restore these functions and make my GI tract hyperactive/adapted too quickly causing the cramps.
@@AbirafdiRadityaPutra ahhhhhhh ok yes. I get what you are saying now. Thank you for letting me know more detail... I appreciate it.
Did you stop taking the Thiamine when it helped you... or did you just lower the dose?
@@zoezzzarko1117 I am now off thiamine. I tried stop taking it multiple times, but my issues came back. Took me around 8 months to be able to stop taking it without my issues (GI and appetite issues) coming back.
@@AbirafdiRadityaPutra thank you for the guidance 🙏
Very generous with your expertise. Thank you.
Great info. I'm already ruling out 2 forms of thiamine as im extremely intolerant of sulfur /thiols. Ive been ovoiding methylated anything, too.
The form of thiamine is important. Thiamin mononitrate causes nonalcoholic fatty liver. There are a number of synthetic forms.
After individually trying all B vitamins (B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12), the only B vitamin which started to resolve my health issues is 100mg B1 thiamine HCL, Does that mean I can get away with low dose B1 (100mg only) to resolve my issues without the need to go higher thus avoiding unpleasant high dose symptoms?
Did you stop taking b complex and taking only b1 ?
Thank you for educating us and walking us through this important subject.
I started at 900 mg of Benfotamine a day and experienced lethargy for weeks. I have now stopped completely and am going to start at a much lower dose and work up.
Started my high dose B1 protocol by slowly increasing to 1500 mg of benfo and 375 of B1 HCL every day. This was the combination in my supplement (by Life Extension, 15 caps a day, wow). No side effects, but no improvement either. I am trying TTFD now. It is very, very potent. I overshoot my first dose by taking 25 mg (1/4 of the capsule) and accidentally inhaled part of the powder. In like 5 minutes, I felt like dying, but that cleared up after a few minutes. Since then, I rather mix my TTFD powder from the capsule with water and potassium citrate and drink it, it tastes disgusting but helps. I am now on 12.5 mg a day (1/8 of the TTFD capsule) and already feel more energetic, better mood, and large part of my fatigue is gone. Eye strain and headaches are also getting better. I am going to continue. FYI, I also take 300 mg of Mg chelate and 88 mg of Mg L-treonate a day, sometimes more, then the potassium I already mentioned, and a B-complex with activated forms of B vitamins, but there is only B1 HCL in it. I was glad to find out that is good to take with TTFD in your video. I am also going to add glutathione, I stopped using it last winter but should start again with the TTFD now, and also to prevent infections. I was not sick at all last winter, no covid, no flu, nothing, even when all people around me were having those problems. Hope this helps someone.
Your story shows just how hard it is to hit that perfect protocol. Guess I'm just not up to it.
Just all too complicated for me
Some of this stuff is starting to meld into one. What is the difference between Vit B1, benfotadine, and TTFD?
@@katiejon17 the difference is explained in other videos by EONutrition
@@Mek7777 ah - so you don’t understand it enough to just give someone a 101. Got it.
@@katiejon17 I'm just a fellow sufferer, not a nutritionist and I'm sure you want to get quality information, so please don't be lazy to search for yourself. It's been explained multiple times in various videos. There's no point of being insultive here.
way too much in the weeds. Just need to do what to do since B1 gives me gas/bloating and can't sleep with it. In the morning for some reason is a drop better for some reason. When I take a B complex the symptoms are worse
Every time I try to take a Thiamine supplement it amplifies my sleep apnea. Anyone know what the reason for this could be?
I'm not sure, but UNfortified Nutritional yeast has all the B vitimins that are supposed to cure sleep apnea.
Make sure it is UNfortified, NOT fortified.
A good Nutritionalist is worth ten Doctors of mainstream regurgetated facts!
For me ttfd brings on a huge oxalate dump. A Good thing but I have to be careful. Not a problem with Hcl or Benfotiamine.
Interesting , so I am having issues. Do you use benfontamine instead of ttdf and titrate up?
@@debbicornell1 I would be interested to know the answer to this, too...
I take benfothiamine one small capsule a day a low dosage .
@@freemanmt Can you please tell me how low is a good dose to take? Thankyou very much!
It’s the dicalcium phosphate in the ttfd formula causing the oxalate dump not the thiamine itself.
The company use dicalcium phosphate when making ttfd for an filler for reasons I don’t understand
molybdenum is used to detox copper from the body in clinics that treat copper disregulation. it is very successful along with a low copper diet to bring down excess levels in the blood. hope that helps with your puzzle
Excellent presentation thank you for sharing this very knowledgeable healthy information
Very informative video! Thx for your work!!
Nicely done presentation, very thorough.
How do you know if your body has methylation issues?
Why does the Ecological Formulas Ttfd has calcium and phosphorus in it?
Also benfotiamine contain a phosphorus molecule in it and ttfd does not. So is it to compensate the lacking phosphorus that calcium and phosphorus is added to the ecological formulas ttfd?
I ordered Ecological Formulas TTFD recently, and although it was advertised as containing calcium / phosphorus, when it arrived, those ingredients were no longer included. Just TTFD, Microcrystaline Cellulose, Gelatin(capsule), Magnesium Stearate, Silicone Dioxide. Perhaps contact them to confirm. I suspect they have updated their formula.
@@rosstituteuk Thanks for the info, depending on availability this may help people. Thiamax is easy to get still so I'd trust it.
A bit baffled that among all your videos on thiamine, you don’t actually say what those side effects are, when megadosing. I mean how are you supposed to know if it’s a side effect of thiamine if it’s some weird symptom?
Edit: I’ve been fasting for 5 days now while being sick with an inflamed tooth, ear pain, fever. I don’t think it was the benfo, though in theory it could accumulate. I did a turn on fluoride from don’t get any to you need some. In the past any brushing with fluoride caused me mouth pain, but that was because of excess iron in my teeth. So for a week I had no problem, but on the fourth I not only let sit extra toothpaste on that tooth, to accelerate healing, but I also had a burger, when I always minimize iron intake. So that combination seems to have resulted in disaster. Luckily I remembered fasting heals, it’s been years since I’ve last used it, and the inflammation is almost gone finally.
I also don’t seem to have any side effects from the thiamine large doses, other than the occasional hard breathing, but I’ll put that on the metabolism adjustment chart.
I was taking bentfotiamine which I thought wasn’t causing any problems. Then I started taking sulbutamine as well and it caused really poor and irritable mood so I quit taking it immediately. Now I’ve realized I have been having the same problem with Benfotiamine and didn’t realize it so I’m just going to stop taking it. If I add all these other supplements to be able to take this, then I’m just going to find I’m intolerant to those as well.
Great video...very technical but much appreciated (Everybody: try to say "molybdenum" three times fast. Or even once :)
So why not just include the gluthathone, magnesium , Alpha Lipoic Acid Potassium etc to your Thiamine product?
Coming soon ;)
It should be noted that thiamine activates nicotinic receptors. This can explain many simptoms including preventing cell death.
BTW this is NOT a complaint.
High doses of b1 while necessary to correct a over 40y lifelong deficiency in this certain case, titrated over 6mo period, caused flair up of B2 deficiency headaches and blood shot eyes that would clear up with 200 to 400 R-5-P activated B2 in divided doses. 75mg activated b2 per day was not enough to avoid these b2 deficiency reactions.
Yep, B1 certainly does increase B2 requirement, and in some cases, causes B2 wasting
You might want to consider that you may have elevated levels of Leucine and need to include niacin and acetyl Carnitine. I had this same increased need for riboflavin when raising thiamine and it indicated low NAD.
@@EONutrition Thank you very much sir for your comments. I love your work and your manner , your genuine caring and concern for others shines through!
@@mercychesed4104 Thank you very much, I'll check into that.
I find it irresponsible of Elliot to make videos on 1 of the B vitamins only. It can cause dangerous vitamin B imbalances if you only take one. Take all 8 and some cofactors! Reading too many comments here of people having experienced bad side effects cause they took only thiamin which EONutrition is championing here all day.
For what reason do people take thiamin? What is their medical background? I'm suffering from MCAS, histamine intolerance and chronic fatigue after destroying my microbiome 5 years ago and still looking for a cure. Would thiamin help me feel more energy?
Yes it would also methylene blue 🔵
Thank you for this enlightening video. I started taking thiamine first in it's basic form and then a Benfotiamine combination. The side affects have been quite intense but persisted due to it greatly helping my diabetic neuropathy. The side affects are the same I get from taking the drug Metformin and relate to the one's you mention in the video ie. palpitations, anxiety, headaches and weakness/tired etc. I hope to find a solution to this as the benefits of taking B1 is just too hard to give up.
Did metformin give u anxiety
@@mohammed7423 yes, metformin made me anxious, nervous, irritable and depressed. Took it for 6 months and then gave up.
Nice one jack am on 1500mg a day metformin i had no idea they cause anxiety
@@mohammed7423 Perhaps not for everyone. My Dad took it for years without any side affects. As it's known to deplete B12 you may want to have that checked sometime.
My b12 is ok our uk docs dont check thiamine did thiamine help your anxiety
I've tried potassium and magnesium together but my body doesn't seem to adapt very well to thiamine, after how long do the side effects lessen or disappear? What scares me the most is the gigantic shortness of breath that I feel even with 50mg of benfotiamine.
Can you talk please more about diabetes, vitamins and minerals relationship ?
B1 completely fucks up my stomach unfortunately. Everytime it seems to give a good effect the rest of the day I'm bound to the toilet. Anybody knows whats up here?
Another great informative video.
Many thanks.
I've been skinny and largely unable to put on any weight for most of my adult life.. I am wondering if I've had low B1 status this entire time, not just recently with my other health issues that respond to B1.
This is my 4th day with 600 mg benfotamine. I felt okay for the first 2 days. So I continued and added 500 mg megnasium. Also started to cut processed and refined carbs with whole wheat grains. Just don't want to cut them off completely and too soon. I am always super sensitive. Then 3rd and 4th day out of nowhere I started to have more palpitation and it made me constantly checking Apple watch pulse. It seems when I feel anxious and the palpitation my heart rate is always 10-15 bpm higher than usual. For example when I am completely sit at rest, heart rate is 60-65 but now it's 70-80. Then standing quietly should be 70-75 now it's 85 ish. Plus I feel a strong sense of racing. I use b1 because I can get anxious and have numerous painful but traveling sites over the body so I thought must be something wrong with the nerves. Also suspect me getting some mild Pots symptoms after a bad flu infection a month ago. So I take b1. But why things seems to get a bit worse? I am also taking b complex and high dose of B12 at the same time and d3. Elliot, do you suggest me taking additional supplements to help with this transitional stage or maybe switch to other form of b1 or stop it,? And herbal tea for candida cleaning. Hopefully you can give some suggestion. Thanks a lot! I truly feel t
Thiamine deficiency is the reason of so many weird symptoms of mine. Every time I go to see doctor they said that I don't have big issues that makes me feel so bad it's always what's in my mind. Then I learned that long use of antibiotic and birth control pills and high carbs diet can cause all the symptoms I have I just firmly believe it's the reason, at least one of the reasons
Thiamine increases the rate at which you use glucose.
If you have little glucose from food, your body will start to increase adrenaline, then cortisol to get your blood sugar up which can create anxiety and heart palpitations.
Maybe try adding MORE carbohydrates instead of eating less. Getting those carbs from clean sources like fresh pressed pulp free juice, hq milk or raw unheated honey or well cooked potatoes/white rice.
Hope this helps :)
@@TheStarbuff WOW, this is really helpful, and also very different from what I've gathered. WEll, I've just entered this world of B1 for only a week, so what do I know! Thank you for letting me know. However, I've really learned from some youtube sources including DR. Berg and Elliot Overton that doing low carb diet is essential while you trying to refill your body's level of b1. Plus, I'm doing a CANDIDA cleanse program, which essentially also ask me to eat less CARBS. I'm glad I didn't stop eating carbs in a cold turkey way. Rather, I switched white rice to brown rice, and just eat less sweat fruit like grapefuits, to replace bananas.
Magnesium,? never never never higher than 400 per day. Too higher dose could
hurt kidney badly? You could eat a banana to make it.... Don't take any supplements if you don't need it.
@@upennucsbI believe they are all mixing up the powerful effects of intermittent fasting with those of a low carb diet and thinking it is beneficial when it may not be it’s just the fasting that’s helping.
@@ihartsacto I don't think fasting works for me personally, due to gut issue, I have slow digestion and nutrients malabsorption
I dont understand what is b1 complex with least amount side effects, am scared to take it, plz tell me i have sibo and none supplements working for me 😢
B1 thiamine hcl help am so fatigue and losing weight i can't eat.
Plz help 🙏
Glad I watched this.. I have G6PD deficiency (genetic) and wondered if it would be safe for me to supplement large doses of B1?
Thanks for the detailed explanations doc
Very interesting stuff! It will be useful in navigating TTFD dosing.
Separately, the notes about benfotiamine's draw of glycine rang a bell as I've been using a small dose of benfotiamine during "B6 toxicity" (more like B6 deficiency caused by high amounts of B6). Glycine was already low from symptoms of salicylate sensitivities, gall/bile stones / issues, and higher oxalate symptoms. Benfotiamine may have helped in some ways, but harmed in the glycine load it placed.
I am very wary about adding more B6. Though, I am curious if B6 management of the main Pyridoxal (active) / Pyridoxine (inactive/antagonist) stores would have been benefited with a higher B1 status.
👍
Are you saying that glycine should also be supplemented alongside Benfotiamine or that Benfotiamine causes an elevated glycine problem?
@@cityguyable Desert Harvest has a b-complex w/o B6
As I understand it too much vitamin B6 can inhibit the biosynthesis of thiamine. Sufficient thiamine is also needed to convert B6 to its active form P5P.
@@bigjimweb Interesting! Our knowledge differs. From what I understand, the cofactors in the B6 salvage pathways are: FAD (B2), Mg, and Zn. Technically, if you have an energy crisis (lowered ATP production), then it *could* impact the B6 salvage pathways, but you also would have many many many other issues!
Do you have a reference on either "B1/Thiamine is needed for B6 conversion" or "B6 can inhibit the biosynthesis of thiamine"?
Are strong paradoxical reactions to benfotiamine (lots of tingling, loss of proprioception, numbness at ~300mg per day) a sign of a need to go on a benfotiamine supplementation regime or can a strong paradoxical reaction simply mean: You do not need this, stop taking it, you're hurting yourself?
How do I tell these two possibilities apart?
Afaik serum B1 doesn't mean much…?