Interesting. I'm thinking maybe a faster burn rate powder may be in order to raise velocity. I would guess about a 300-400 fps gain to be possible if the right recipe can be found
I've been meaning to go through some of your back videos. I would think that with load development it should be possible to drive it over 2400 feet per second. I have been thinking about the same combination. Either that or a Barnes tac XP
Running a quick mock up in GRT suggests you should be able to get close to 3000 fps with faster powders, which would be a very interesting little unit.
Happy New Year! Interesting indeed, definitely like the innovative idea of resizing the bullets. As I've mentioned before I'm skeptical of using gel tests to replicate the effects on real bodies, because gel is homogeneous and bodies aren't. It's easier to design bullet performance when there is one exact thing happening; it gets very tough when you have that standard and another where you first have to go through bone to hit the gel. And bone density varies too. Still we gotta have something, and gel does roughly equal a bullet not hitting bone. Numbers will always show that increased velocity gives the biggest energy gains, but overlooks that you need enough penetration into the vitals before anything else begins to have much effect. Penetration takes momentum energy which only enough bullet weight can give you. These 55gr bullets lack in momentum energy and probably wouldn't penetrate deep enough if solid bone was hit before the soft gel-like parts behind the bone are reached. In the upper center torso of most animals you have roughly a 50% chance of hitting a rib or missing it completely. Another channel does actual "meat tests" using real tissue with bone to replicate real life and the results I've seen seem to back up my line of thought. So in I have to wonder if a 55gr bullet even at 30 Carbine velocity is a good idea, especially when real-life shows that 110gr FMJ at similar velocities can lack penetration if bone is hit first. I wish you'd do some experimenting along those lines using either real bone or maybe a hardwood board (of a thickness you's need to determine through testing) in front of the gel to better replicate a rib hit versus missing that; we need to know that before we can make any conclusions on effectiveness for a given purpose. The other channel I mentioned takes ages and a lot of rambling (like me) to get to their conclusions and you get there far more quickly without missing anything important along the way so I hope you'll consider giving the idea of dual-target testing here; one "FBI" test and one with a rib or pseudo-rib in front. That would make my year!
I find Paul Harrell's meat tests to be a useful adjunct to gel tests. People forget that gel is a comparative media and does not replicate performance in a flesh-and-blood target. The test is also aimed specifically at determining the performance of duty rounds for police, not self-defense or hunting. I was skeptical of the 9mm Xtreme Defender; the fact that it looks good in Gel is a decent indicator but it's only one data point. I sent samples to a friend of mine in Texas that frequently has to shoot feral hogs and he tried it out. It performed well, comparably to well-regarded JHP ammunition. I'd like to see a 100rg version of these in .308 driven to the same velocity.
@@tinkertalksguns7289 Thanks for the fast and insightful reply. Gel does come close to real soft tissue; it's the best we've got so I'm not against using it. I don't think there's much difference between what LE needs and what our own self-defense needs. The old-school bullets were all that I had back when I shot actively and frequently, and today's bullets can be far better. But the basics still apply and as long as there's enough penetration I'll consider them. When I developed my self-defense load premium HP's were just getting started and I get great results using .357 125gr HP's at a chronographed 1600FPS from a 4" barrel. An extremely hot load which will instantly disassemble most guns and wear out most others, I will not share my loading data nor recommend it as a goal, but me and many others have discovered that it's very effective IRL with bullets that hold together. Today I'd buy a 357SIG and be done with it. ATB to you and your channel from a forever subscriber.
I'd be interested in seeing more than one shot of this load in gel. Many, many jello shots from other channels show these types of bullets in multiple calibers flipping around in gel and coming to a rest backwards at a disturbingly common rate. Which makes me not trust them at all, especially for their price tag!
Gel Test- 55gr Lehigh Xtreme Defender in .30 Carbine Interesting but not worth messing with this when a semi jacket soft point does really well for defense or hunting. I agree no real point to it. I will stick with my soft points that hold together better in a body cavity than hollow points at higher velocity.
Very interesting.
magsafe ammo and glaser had back in the day a 52 gr load for the 30 carbine that got something like 2400-2500 fps from a M1 carbine
Interesting. I'm thinking maybe a faster burn rate powder may be in order to raise velocity. I would guess about a 300-400 fps gain to be possible if the right recipe can be found
I've been meaning to go through some of your back videos. I would think that with load development it should be possible to drive it over 2400 feet per second. I have been thinking about the same combination. Either that or a Barnes tac XP
5:07 very interesting 🤔 and a very Happy New Year 🎆
Running a quick mock up in GRT suggests you should be able to get close to 3000 fps with faster powders, which would be a very interesting little unit.
Great idea!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
I'll be testing with the 85gr. Extreme Cavitator that's made for .30 Carbine soon.
Happy New Year! Interesting indeed, definitely like the innovative idea of resizing the bullets. As I've mentioned before I'm skeptical of using gel tests to replicate the effects on real bodies, because gel is homogeneous and bodies aren't. It's easier to design bullet performance when there is one exact thing happening; it gets very tough when you have that standard and another where you first have to go through bone to hit the gel. And bone density varies too. Still we gotta have something, and gel does roughly equal a bullet not hitting bone.
Numbers will always show that increased velocity gives the biggest energy gains, but overlooks that you need enough penetration into the vitals before anything else begins to have much effect. Penetration takes momentum energy which only enough bullet weight can give you. These 55gr bullets lack in momentum energy and probably wouldn't penetrate deep enough if solid bone was hit before the soft gel-like parts behind the bone are reached. In the upper center torso of most animals you have roughly a 50% chance of hitting a rib or missing it completely. Another channel does actual "meat tests" using real tissue with bone to replicate real life and the results I've seen seem to back up my line of thought.
So in I have to wonder if a 55gr bullet even at 30 Carbine velocity is a good idea, especially when real-life shows that 110gr FMJ at similar velocities can lack penetration if bone is hit first. I wish you'd do some experimenting along those lines using either real bone or maybe a hardwood board (of a thickness you's need to determine through testing) in front of the gel to better replicate a rib hit versus missing that; we need to know that before we can make any conclusions on effectiveness for a given purpose. The other channel I mentioned takes ages and a lot of rambling (like me) to get to their conclusions and you get there far more quickly without missing anything important along the way so I hope you'll consider giving the idea of dual-target testing here; one "FBI" test and one with a rib or pseudo-rib in front. That would make my year!
I find Paul Harrell's meat tests to be a useful adjunct to gel tests. People forget that gel is a comparative media and does not replicate performance in a flesh-and-blood target. The test is also aimed specifically at determining the performance of duty rounds for police, not self-defense or hunting. I was skeptical of the 9mm Xtreme Defender; the fact that it looks good in Gel is a decent indicator but it's only one data point. I sent samples to a friend of mine in Texas that frequently has to shoot feral hogs and he tried it out. It performed well, comparably to well-regarded JHP ammunition. I'd like to see a 100rg version of these in .308 driven to the same velocity.
@@tinkertalksguns7289 Thanks for the fast and insightful reply. Gel does come close to real soft tissue; it's the best we've got so I'm not against using it. I don't think there's much difference between what LE needs and what our own self-defense needs. The old-school bullets were all that I had back when I shot actively and frequently, and today's bullets can be far better. But the basics still apply and as long as there's enough penetration I'll consider them. When I developed my self-defense load premium HP's were just getting started and I get great results using .357 125gr HP's at a chronographed 1600FPS from a 4" barrel. An extremely hot load which will instantly disassemble most guns and wear out most others, I will not share my loading data nor recommend it as a goal, but me and many others have discovered that it's very effective IRL with bullets that hold together. Today I'd buy a 357SIG and be done with it. ATB to you and your channel from a forever subscriber.
Realize this videos a bit older but just curious have u seen either of lehigh defence 30 carbine specific projectiles
Yes, I have a box of the 85gr. projectiles. I plan to load and test them, but I've had other priorities (and it slipped my mind.)
I'd be interested in seeing more than one shot of this load in gel. Many, many jello shots from other channels show these types of bullets in multiple calibers flipping around in gel and coming to a rest backwards at a disturbingly common rate. Which makes me not trust them at all, especially for their price tag!
I'll be testing some 85gr loads soon.
You really deserve more subscribers 😐
Thank you! The numbers are creeping up. :)
i wonder how well it would perform in a Ruger Blackhawk revolver?
I think I would load it differently, perhaps with 2400.
Gel Test- 55gr Lehigh Xtreme Defender in .30 Carbine
Interesting but not worth messing with this when a semi jacket soft point does really well for defense or hunting. I agree no real point to it. I will stick with my soft points that hold together better in a body cavity than hollow points at higher velocity.