With all the clans, this is the one clan that I personally struggle to fully understand the most. Good sir, your piece has answered so many of them, where they come from, their goals, thier motivations. All I can say is simply THANK YOU!
09:03 I understand it's a common vampire trait that they don't have a reflection, but let's be honest, would it really be any fun being a Toreador if one couldn't bask in the beauty of our own visage?
I'm sure they can still look down at their enormous blood sausage. Nosferatu grow ugly after their embrace, Toreadors grow huge cocks. That's my head canon.
The great drawback of all Toreador is not just that the moment they are embraced they can never have the mortal spark that allows anyone to make true art and become mere cold imitations of their former selves. Oh no, the best insult a Nosferatu can fling at a rose is that they never were real artists to begin with and could even prove it. There are many con artists, thieves and charlatans that are able to deceive and rise high in the art world, and thus the Toreador, into embracing them as the next big thing. And either the con must continue lying to deviants - which probably isn't as hard as it could be if you know how to kiss ass like an expert and manipulate someone with talent to do the work for you; or the sire finds out their deep embarrassment and either take the big L becoming a laughing stock to the rest of the Harpies at court or keep the lie going through their own means but with a deep unspoken hatred between childr and master. There is nothing quite like a Torry pleading to keep the Harpies from tearing them apart, both figuratively and literally, because they're making bank on spotify with fake music.
Fake music?!! Sir! I will hasten to remind you that my "Symphony #14" also known as "Requiem for a Nose Hair" left the audience silent in admiration! Some were so taken by it, they lost consciousness and snored stertorously throughout the bravura performance! I rest upon my laurels as the composer of the finest kazoo music anywhere!!
@@sylvisterling8782 Oh dear lord. The Kazoo. The most obnoxious instrument known to man. A demonic tool of taunt and ridicule. You, Sir, have sacrificed your humanity in pursuit of the darkest of arts.
Wait, so that was what this opera was about? Nose hair? I swear my wife keeps dragging me to those things. We're high society now, we have to represent. Bleigh! Sometimes I just want to take the dogs and run off to the forrest.
Neonate:.... Ashburn:neonate? You seem...frightened. Neonate:you know how you said the toreador always seem unfocused? Aparently that was bullshit. Ashburn:...elaborate? Neonate:i almost died because of a toreador in frenzy. Turns out,a thrill for the hunt could count as art. Ashburn:*visibly shudders* ...do you want a drink? Neonate:is that you being nice? Ashburn:im a monster. I'm not an asshole. ...ok i might be kind of an ass but that is beside my point. Neonate:would be nice yeah.
It honestly seems like Toreador are the most hated clan of all. The only people i meet who like them are, themselves, Toreador. I would think the least favored would be those that wallow in the festering sewers or perhaps the least trusted clan, Tremere. Toreador are the closest to being alive and human and yet thought to be the least humane.
Let me say that I firmly believe this is a very solid and great universe, and that I like how this video has been made. Also, I understand how complex it is to write some sort of fictional vampirical history in a believable consonance with world history. In fact, I have the opinion that, when it comes to that, the fewer details you give, the better in general, otherwise it becomes a burdensome sort of dogma or rigid script on who is who and who owns what. Even more, I perfectly understand that all this was born in the USA in the first place, and that, thus, it will naturally always be very American-Anglo-Saxon-centered. However, as a constructive (or not) criticism on how to develop the lore itself, honestly, just a little more of a global perspective, even if very loose, would not do any harm, I believe. "France as Europe's cultural nexus", and "the works of many new artists, such as Michelangelo and Da Vinci, as well as the works of Shakespeare" sound, for example, very poor. First because, in reality, the nexus was Italy by that age, specially at the beginning (that is why il Rinascimento was born right there, not by chance). And because it is very stereotypical mentioning a few artists too important not to be known just to, immediately after, of course, include Shakespeare, the only great writer ever apparently, as if there were not plenty of other authors, by that time and even nowadays, way more noteworthy and influential in their own fields or countries, like Góngora, Quevedo, Cervantes, Montaigne, Boccaccio, Dante, Petrarca, Machiavelli, Molière... or Thomas More, just to mention another English one, and just to stick to writers, something not very understandable considering Toreadors would also adore sculpture, architecture, music or painting, I believe. And no mention to any classic or medieval important artists as well, for some reason. It also sounds extremely poor the fact of making the history of European discovery, conquest and colonization of the world basically evolve around and exclusively the USA and its shit... As if, apparently, nothing noteworthy happened in the rest of the continent or the world. Really, are we to believe that no Toreadors ever lived in the great Spanish cities of the New World, like Habana, Mexico, Lima, Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo, Cuzco, Potosí, Buenos Aires...? Nothing about encountering and mixing with pre-columbian civilizations? No passion for exploration and discovery? Nothing revolutionary in the first circumnavigation of the world, for example? Nothing about other equally interesting encounters when getting to Asia, like in Spanish Manila or Portuguese Macau or India or Africa, or later on the Dutch or the English? Nothing about contacting Asian people and maybe even the Kuei-jin for the first time? Are we to believe that, with all that, the Toreadors chose to focus on Mississippi, or that this is the most remarkable thing to mention of it all? It is not just about missing some unexplored ground for a more fertile lore, it is also making it not very credible or plausible. If not an expert in those topics do not go deeper, that is fine, but at least leave it open in some way, or delimit the tale and clarify that yours is just from an USA perspective, or something like it. Luckily this is fan lore and anyone can come afterwards and add whatever he wants, but it is the attitude… Still, good job overall anyways.
So Toreador are that snake from Courage the Cowardly Dog “Oh I am _so_ pretty, I just _loooove_ me” Also, a common name for them among my Coterie is “room temperature thots”
Say what you want but beauty is subjective well that and technically they are the ones who made the inquisition which inspired the 2nt inquisition in some ways (not trying to offend anyone) to me they seem like future seeing (but usually seem not that smart/wise) diplomats and are slightly better at combat because one of their disciplines let's them attack more often in battle and for some reason a lot of them act like a succubus (which somehow works to there advantage usually) over all they seem mostly like artists who found out that they can get a way with stuff because they are pretty and some are either crazy or evil
I can understand but also (even though I'm home schooled) they tend to seem like the typical popular girl/boy you can usually find in a school if you understand what I mean but thankfully not all of them are like that
I guess part of why I think of them like this is I'm almost always thinking and I usually think practically and don't care much about looks also my mom says that i might have Asperger's
They are all fun and games, sure but the moment the gauntlet is thrown down, it's Princess Bride,...minus sword duels, buuut they have their party moments, word of the wise avoid Bianca Nicoleta Medici, trust me Vegas gets weird
One of my favorite things about vtm lore is how it blends with real world history without cheapening it
So true, such an astute comment!
What you mean? This is history.
With all the clans, this is the one clan that I personally struggle to fully understand the most. Good sir, your piece has answered so many of them, where they come from, their goals, thier motivations. All I can say is simply THANK YOU!
Thanks for the feedback! It warms my cold dank heart to know I have helped someone have a better understanding of the Toreador Clan.
Loved the sarcastic little yay around 9:22 when you mentioned Toreador partaking in the slave trade. This stuff is gold.
09:03 I understand it's a common vampire trait that they don't have a reflection, but let's be honest, would it really be any fun being a Toreador if one couldn't bask in the beauty of our own visage?
I'm sure they can still look down at their enormous blood sausage. Nosferatu grow ugly after their embrace, Toreadors grow huge cocks. That's my head canon.
Now I’m just imagining a toreador furiously making out with their own reflection
They have paintings. Thus why Toreadors embrace painters, especially the ones who makes almost perfect portraits ;)
The great drawback of all Toreador is not just that the moment they are embraced they can never have the mortal spark that allows anyone to make true art and become mere cold imitations of their former selves. Oh no, the best insult a Nosferatu can fling at a rose is that they never were real artists to begin with and could even prove it. There are many con artists, thieves and charlatans that are able to deceive and rise high in the art world, and thus the Toreador, into embracing them as the next big thing. And either the con must continue lying to deviants - which probably isn't as hard as it could be if you know how to kiss ass like an expert and manipulate someone with talent to do the work for you; or the sire finds out their deep embarrassment and either take the big L becoming a laughing stock to the rest of the Harpies at court or keep the lie going through their own means but with a deep unspoken hatred between childr and master.
There is nothing quite like a Torry pleading to keep the Harpies from tearing them apart, both figuratively and literally, because they're making bank on spotify with fake music.
Savage!
Fake music?!! Sir! I will hasten to remind you that my "Symphony #14" also known as "Requiem for a Nose Hair" left the audience silent in admiration! Some were so taken by it, they lost consciousness and snored stertorously throughout the bravura performance! I rest upon my laurels as the composer of the finest kazoo music anywhere!!
@@sylvisterling8782 Oh dear lord. The Kazoo. The most obnoxious instrument known to man. A demonic tool of taunt and ridicule. You, Sir, have sacrificed your humanity in pursuit of the darkest of arts.
Wait, so that was what this opera was about? Nose hair? I swear my wife keeps dragging me to those things. We're high society now, we have to represent. Bleigh! Sometimes I just want to take the dogs and run off to the forrest.
The conceit behind this podcast is so cool and well done always love revisiting vampire lore
Thanks so much, I really appreciate that 🥰
Just subscribed! You have made this Toreador very happy!
Happy to hear it!
13:44 I spilled my drink, well said!
Very good podcast. You have earned a new subscriber.
Thank you very much! I’m really pleased you are enjoying the podcast 😊
I am creating Vampire campaign to my rpg group. I was suprised then half of players created Toreador character.
Toreadors are so fun and versatile!
well done
Who hurt you and how’d you get even
Neonate:....
Ashburn:neonate? You seem...frightened.
Neonate:you know how you said the toreador always seem unfocused? Aparently that was bullshit.
Ashburn:...elaborate?
Neonate:i almost died because of a toreador in frenzy. Turns out,a thrill for the hunt could count as art.
Ashburn:*visibly shudders* ...do you want a drink?
Neonate:is that you being nice?
Ashburn:im a monster. I'm not an asshole. ...ok i might be kind of an ass but that is beside my point.
Neonate:would be nice yeah.
It honestly seems like Toreador are the most hated clan of all. The only people i meet who like them are, themselves, Toreador. I would think the least favored would be those that wallow in the festering sewers or perhaps the least trusted clan, Tremere. Toreador are the closest to being alive and human and yet thought to be the least humane.
Perhaps it is a case of an uncanny valley. Since they look and act so human but aren't. Causing the uncanny valley effect.
Let me say that I firmly believe this is a very solid and great universe, and that I like how this video has been made. Also, I understand how complex it is to write some sort of fictional vampirical history in a believable consonance with world history. In fact, I have the opinion that, when it comes to that, the fewer details you give, the better in general, otherwise it becomes a burdensome sort of dogma or rigid script on who is who and who owns what. Even more, I perfectly understand that all this was born in the USA in the first place, and that, thus, it will naturally always be very American-Anglo-Saxon-centered. However, as a constructive (or not) criticism on how to develop the lore itself, honestly, just a little more of a global perspective, even if very loose, would not do any harm, I believe.
"France as Europe's cultural nexus", and "the works of many new artists, such as Michelangelo and Da Vinci, as well as the works of Shakespeare" sound, for example, very poor. First because, in reality, the nexus was Italy by that age, specially at the beginning (that is why il Rinascimento was born right there, not by chance). And because it is very stereotypical mentioning a few artists too important not to be known just to, immediately after, of course, include Shakespeare, the only great writer ever apparently, as if there were not plenty of other authors, by that time and even nowadays, way more noteworthy and influential in their own fields or countries, like Góngora, Quevedo, Cervantes, Montaigne, Boccaccio, Dante, Petrarca, Machiavelli, Molière... or Thomas More, just to mention another English one, and just to stick to writers, something not very understandable considering Toreadors would also adore sculpture, architecture, music or painting, I believe. And no mention to any classic or medieval important artists as well, for some reason.
It also sounds extremely poor the fact of making the history of European discovery, conquest and colonization of the world basically evolve around and exclusively the USA and its shit... As if, apparently, nothing noteworthy happened in the rest of the continent or the world. Really, are we to believe that no Toreadors ever lived in the great Spanish cities of the New World, like Habana, Mexico, Lima, Puerto Rico, Santo Domingo, Cuzco, Potosí, Buenos Aires...? Nothing about encountering and mixing with pre-columbian civilizations? No passion for exploration and discovery? Nothing revolutionary in the first circumnavigation of the world, for example? Nothing about other equally interesting encounters when getting to Asia, like in Spanish Manila or Portuguese Macau or India or Africa, or later on the Dutch or the English? Nothing about contacting Asian people and maybe even the Kuei-jin for the first time? Are we to believe that, with all that, the Toreadors chose to focus on Mississippi, or that this is the most remarkable thing to mention of it all?
It is not just about missing some unexplored ground for a more fertile lore, it is also making it not very credible or plausible. If not an expert in those topics do not go deeper, that is fine, but at least leave it open in some way, or delimit the tale and clarify that yours is just from an USA perspective, or something like it. Luckily this is fan lore and anyone can come afterwards and add whatever he wants, but it is the attitude… Still, good job overall anyways.
Seems everyone shits on my favored of clans:/
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They all kinda shit on eachother. 🤷♂️
Tories are cool, tho.
I think you missed a bit of the nuance here.
You do realize LbN is partially in-character in these podcasts, right?
Dude is a Nosferatu, lol!
So Toreador are that snake from Courage the Cowardly Dog
“Oh I am _so_ pretty, I just _loooove_ me”
Also, a common name for them among my Coterie is “room temperature thots”
Say what you want but beauty is subjective well that and technically they are the ones who made the inquisition which inspired the 2nt inquisition in some ways (not trying to offend anyone) to me they seem like future seeing (but usually seem not that smart/wise) diplomats and are slightly better at combat because one of their disciplines let's them attack more often in battle and for some reason a lot of them act like a succubus (which somehow works to there advantage usually) over all they seem mostly like artists who found out that they can get a way with stuff because they are pretty and some are either crazy or evil
I'm not trying to say that artists are evil just that these ones seem a fare bit evil
I agree with all of this, but the entirety of the podcast is told through the eyes of a Nosferatu...so of course he os going to be a bit salty 😝
I can understand but also (even though I'm home schooled) they tend to seem like the typical popular girl/boy you can usually find in a school if you understand what I mean but thankfully not all of them are like that
That is an interesting way of looking at it. Yes, I suppose that is a good way of looking at them.
I guess part of why I think of them like this is I'm almost always thinking and I usually think practically and don't care much about looks also my mom says that i might have Asperger's
Humph... I knew a female Toreador. We call her a Succubus now. How literal is that description is up to you.
Loreador
😘👉👉🌹🌹🌹🌹
Happy to see my choose clan I find they are very misunderstood
They are all fun and games, sure but the moment the gauntlet is thrown down, it's Princess Bride,...minus sword duels, buuut they have their party moments, word of the wise avoid Bianca Nicoleta Medici, trust me Vegas gets weird
A Toreador can certainly appreciate the beauty of duelling with sabres.