What type of narcissism are you really dealing with? | Dr. Henry Cloud
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มี.ค. 2024
- Narcissism has become such a commonplace word that not only has it lost its specificity, but in doing so it has become difficult to identify the types of narcissistic behavior you might be dealing with. Dr. Henry Cloud wants you to learn what type of narcissistic patterns a person may have. Some narcissists can change for the better, and others can’t. Dr. Cloud describes the different underlying causes of this behavior and how you can address the entitlement that it presents as. In some cases you need to stay clear of these people, In other cases, through patience and love, they can find the vulnerability they need to become their real selves.
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Narcissists are NOT nice people and they do not change. I have lived with one for 27 years and it has been brutal, abusive, hurtful and damaging. They do NOT change, and it adds to the abuse of those who suffer from a Narcissist to have counselors tell the abused to hope where there will never be any. To forgive when abused people need to run and work on themselves and learn boundaries to avoid getting involved with people like this again. We don’t need to be abused more.
They never change nothing but you hehehehe 😂
It doesn't MATTER what kind of Narcissists they are LEAVE IMMEDIATELY
Trying to work them out what kind they are is a huge trap, gets you more more wired into them & away from yourself your soul/spirit
Put down in shame in their early years - then pursuing developing their best self, then becoming angry when not approved.
When the person wishes to punish you or retaliate - RUN.
There are 3 books which I have relied on daily for the last few years in understanding what Dr. Cloud is talking about here. The first book, written by Drs. Cloud and Townsend, Boundaries, opened the door to the Holy Bible, for me, and then, in my journey, I have found that the book by DC Robertsson, The First Will Be Last, helped me with another biblical viewpoint on this sad, but very real topic. I can only thank God each and every day for His Holy Word, and for His people.
Thank you! I’m going to check those out!😀
I ordered this book today when reading something about emotional abuse which I have had in my family from my husband for over 20 years. Is this a coincidence that you meant the same book, I think not. I think it’s God‘s way of telling me to read it. I thank God that I came across your input and help about what to read on the subject. My name is Lisa and may God richly bless you and may he give me the strength and show me what to do when this most difficult situation.
@@foxiefair123❤Thank you, I can’t say enough good for the 3 books which helped me to understand and put me on the pathway to health and healing.
@@loveheals9521❤ Hi Lisa, I believe with you that our all-knowing God places in our hands those things which He knows can bring understanding, health, healing, and joy. Sometimes it’s a long process, but those of us who have been psychologically and emotionally abused can find the joy of our strength, in the Lord. My prayer is for the love of God to be forever and always our guiding light and hope.
Yes!!!! I had that book as a brand new Christian!!! Such a great help was that book to me. ❤❤❤❤
Also things become more evident over the years - somewhat like the frog in hot water. Seeing this become more evident in relation to this person - it is very disorienting to live alongside in the process.
They feel like you did something to them, then they want to get you.
This describes those “quick to anger” people I encounter sometimes. Instead of hearing what you really are saying, they “hear” insult and focus on it.
True.
Will be eagerly waiting for how to associate/live with a passive aggressive narcissist in an upcoming video (hint hint😊)
I am so sick of narcissim and people around me. I have been working on myself for several past years. God has done so many miracles in my life. I dont k ow how i can make it in this world without God.
Its God's very grace that has saved you n made you a better person ..
So please remember God did not give up on you or judge you .. He did not grow tired of you ..
His love n grace is for everyone ..
Pray for those who have not seen His love favour n grace yet and be humble that you are experiencing His love favour n grace .. Amen 🙏
"Braggadocios, us that a word?"
So appreciate this user-friendly intelligence... May the presence of Jesus Christ be all you and Tory need for the season we are in. His Promises,His Word cannot fail. His forgiveness is deep healing.
❤
Great information! We need to understand the nuances of the person we’re dealing with and not lump them all together under a single label. Thank you for making the distinctions!
Thank you dr Henry cloud for this. I think we should never lose hope on people. That God can change a heart. I’ve been terrified of being one growing with many around and the abuse
God can and absolutely does change hearts that are WILLING to change and recognise the need to. A narcissist won’t accept they are the problem or contributing factor, but bring you old hurts and anything to take the attention off them
Is sad because God is there to heal it but they’re not ready
2 Corinthians 10:4-5 KJV
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ,
Excellent...
AMEN 🙌🏽🙏🏽
Controlling is a big factor!
Thank you for making these distinctions.
Vulnerable narcissists can be the most destructive UNLESS u have strong boundaries and when u loosen the boundaries they take advamtagr of u. There is NO middle ground here.
Yes narcissists are difficult and a problem. The whole issue saddens me especially when human beings are treated as categories and given up on. WWJD?
Jesus would offer grace and wait for you to take Him up on it.
Shame-based narcissist can change.
Beyond my pay grade. I hope and pray that there is some vulnerability in there, but will probably never be expressed to me. Other one seems antisocial p. d. I know I couldn't make it work, even though others dont see or lived with what I did. That was the hard part, like you know there's a fire in the basement but no one is listening. Yes, going to get you, destruction and misery are in their ways, they dont want peace. Thank you, having been learning some practical stuff.
Deep woundedness comes out in anger.
But in my experience of dealing with a covert narcissist who is also an alcoholic, is noticing how he has so much rejection and shame which has come from his childhood and how he was parented ...or not really loved and accepted as a child in his family. The anger was there due to the treatment he had from his mum and non present dad. Then to survive, and succeed in life as he thought best, he bacame a covert narcissist in behaviour. I believe God has the power to heal him....he has to be in total surrender and agreement with God to walk that path with Him . Thats the hard part ....the walking in the healing on a daily basis and not choosing to revert back to his old self. 🙏
I recently heard a phrase that sums it up well-- "indulging the shame through anger."
Great video
Thank you Dr.Cloud!!!
As I reached into 8.16 mins. I can tell you that that there is a combo of both categories you mentioned.
Comes out with addiction. Feeds into the defkection and need for supñly(ers)..very interesting insights here
Wow!! This is what's been happening to me through my daughter!😮
What form of narcissism is it when a partner dismisses concerns and bids for affection, a sharing of inner worlds, and emotional intimacy?
Check out How We Love book by Kay and Milan Yorkovich. They talk about Love/attachment styles. If someone has Avoider attachment style they show these traits you described. The another is Vacillator attachment style. Find out your and your spouse attachment styles. Get therapy about it.
It may not be a form of narcissism. It could be a brain wiring that is different from yours ant that is not wired for the kind of connection and intimacy most of us look for - autism spectrum.
It's called WITHOLDING it's to make you feel unworthy unwanted unvalued,
They will withold/withdraw what you NEED the most, they will even avoid sex with you, you could throw yourself at them they will turn away, again to make you question yourself make you look at yourself and think there is something wrong with YOU sexually, they cannot have you focus on what's wrong with THEM so covertly manipulate it all to turn around onto you. It's an extremely effective abuse/manipulation tactic to get you to feel less than, unworthy, not good enough about yourself, the lower you feel think believe yourself to be the longer you will stay with an abusive type 😢
It's why no matter how hard it is, you must plan your exit quickly & quietly & get away from him
Or Covert Narcissism
I hadn’t heard until the last week or two that another person’s narcissistic traits could be ruining your physical (as well as mental) health. That could explain some digestive issues or trips to the ER.
Covert/vulnerable narcissism, in my experience: This person had a traumatic childhood. We must be designed to respond with compassion to hurting or broken people. But, they still want to talk about the trauma 50 or 60 years later (they haven’t done their own homework or reparenting to heal those wounds).
They talk about having goals, yet hardly seem to take initiative or move towards them. They might achieve a goal and still nitpick that it wasn’t perfect or like what they had imagined.
You devote years/decades of time to figure this person out, but they’re a walking hypocritical contradiction. “If I could live my life over, I wouldn’t have kids.” Um, are you supposed to say that out loud? Was my life a “mistake”? No, you misunderstood me. My children are the joy of my life. Why do you only take me to the movies when it’s a cold night? Have I ever mentioned that a trip to Alaska is on my bucket list?
You can communicate your boundaries or expectations. Those will get bypassed, almost like it was intentional. Since it’s done in a passive-aggressive way, you might not even know right away.
You clearly and firmly say no. There’s no reason to keep explaining yourself. That just seems to mean, “Ask me again.” Like the answer will eventually change to yes. Or, time for another bypass.
I don’t think you mentioned a communal narcissist (if that’s an official category). It seems like this person wants to be known as a giver, or very generous. That person’s public image is very important to them. But, you eventually find out that the underlying motivation wasn’t about blessing the recipient. It was to self-medicate or make themselves feel better through “love bombing” other people. There might also be a chance that they’ll be repaid with verbal affirmation. Granted, that is one of the five love languages. It just never seems to meet their insatiable need for external validation.
To try and summarize, these appear to be deeply insecure and miserable people. Yet, this person in particular rejects the Gospel or a relationship with Jesus.
What about the ones in church that say they're Christian!?
Martyring their family with a whole bunch of guilt, they are vulnerable.
3rd category - had that kind of modelling. I think they were modelled that they need to have these special things attached/associated with them to have a representation of self-esteem.
Please explain to me, Dr. Cloud, WHY i have to live MY LIFE in a “fish bowl”?? THIS HAS BEEN BOTHERING ME SINCE I BECAME A CHRISTIAN in 1984?? And it has been a constant aggravation for all these years, with “struggle-sessions” and “shunning”, and C-PTSD??? I remember getting an “inkling” about my concerns on this matter, when i began going to regular counseling sessions and i was asked if i understood the meaning of the phrase: “Don’t throw stones at glass houses.” And much later, “the Emperor has no clothes.”
RUN FROM DANGER!
Thank you!
This is the part that has been completely absent from information on narcissism and almost completely absent from information on healing from trauma.
It's like all the people giving advice, have never experienced actual danger and completely ignore it as being a major ONGOING problem for many victims. And they contribute to it being ongoing, because they won't take it seriously.
It turns out I wasn't 'being triggered due to past trauma' as I was told over and over and over. No, rather, because I know what danger is, I was sensing it, as others with no concept of what was passing through their world, did not. They did not see it for what it was.
Ok nvm! I see it now. Thank you ❤
Tks but we do need a follow up!
Don't judge all narcissists the same.
My boyfriend consist of all these different types of narcissistic behaviors and I use the term boyfriend very loosely because I’m already mentally checked out
I am right there with you... Mine is the one who is "gonna get you"... and it's true. I can see it and he says "I'm gonna find out..."
Are there 2 types but then subtypes under each? Because this is the first time I’ve heard a professional say 2 types and not 5. In general, people tend to think there is just 1. I believe there are many. Just curious ✌🏼
Healthy Narcissism is an oxymoron. Healthy self-esteem is godly; Narcissism is god-like.
Not to mention, evil.
There are actually 5 types of narcissists. Unfortunately, the three narcissist men in my life did not change. They might go to counseling a couple times, and they quit as soon as they feel shame.
Shame is very difficult to deal with, speaking from my own experience. I’m a recovered/delivered alcoholic, but also saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. When I remember things that I have done in the past and begin to feel intense shame over them, I pray about it and realize that the Lord has forgiven me and that I am cleansed of those sins. Godly sorrow works repentance. If
necessary or possible I will
make amends and then continue to walk in newness of life.
@@foxiefair123 I hear you. I don’t know if Shame is a healthy place to be. if you feel some guilt for a choice you made, then repenting and asking for forgiveness along with forgiving yourself are good things. But to make people feel guilty for natural human feelings is something else. That is the problem with the purity culture and so many parents and pastors preach it to the young adults in their church. But so many of them have not had a sexual pure life. So they are making kids feel guilty for something they did themselves.
Dr. Cloud, can bi polar disorder mimic "narcissistic traits"?
Great question. I would love an answer as well
I'm not a doctor but rather a survivor... we all have "narcissistic traits" to some degree. That's the point he was trying to make when he was talking about "good narcissism."
How did we get into dogs?
3rd category - insecurity. Need a fancy car or something else.
If jts a triangle its Narcissistic.
Why does narcissism exist?
Why do sociopaths and psychopaths exist?
Ease their toe into the water of vulnerability. Shame based, hmmmm.
Help me Jesus!
And when the structure gets EXTREME and distructive..... Its really awful! Talk about COVERTS.
🛑🃏👻
Pretty narrow view of the subject.
He said broadly speaking in the beginning