ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Not to toot my own horn, but I gotta say, I think my gameplay here makes this game look pretty fun. Which it is. The initial story playthrough of Forces is super underwhelming. But the levels are way more enjoyable on replay, which is common for Sonic. But this game crosses the line from lame to fun that way. At least I think so. The short level lengths remind me of Sonic 1 and 2. Which do work well for time attack. Shorter levels make it easier to learn them and nail everything in one clean run. And make it easier to go for the big crazy shortcuts, since there's less to redo if you mess up.
I realized after recording the audio that I completely forgot to talk about bosses... But that's fine. They suck, like they always do. The end.
Here's my spreadsheet of Sonic Recommendations.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
/ pariah695
ko-fi.com/pariah695 - เกม
SONIC FORCES KILLED MY GRANDMA, OK
What character was she using??
@@JM57-99 *I* was the one playing. [Flashback] that day, I was lost in S Rank attempts, and I didn't see her trying to warn me
@@CassiusStelar [Faded Hills starts playing]
Capping killed my Pybro!
I eat my grandma
I cannot believe I read a title with “Sonic Forces” and “Sonic Was Always Good” near eachother.
Had to reread it, even as someone who watches all these
@@lightzthestarz Even Lost World got the title, despite being the worst mainline game 😬
It absolutely is not. @@luccaassis2148
@@luccaassis2148 Right, yet TSR didn't.
"Was always good" implies past-tense: Sonic used to be good, now he is not.
This video is longer than all of Modern sonic stages in this game lol 💀
Is that true tho? 🤔
@@Hyp3rSonicactually yeah all modern sonic stages is 10 minutrs look it up lol
@@starfGD well, I think my best times on all modern sonic stages are less then the videos length. Anyways, ik that my Mortal Canyon PB is 54.54
@@Hyp3rSonic Surprisingly yes, if you count the average time to beat every boost stage, you do get around 25 minutes
This game is mostly Classic Sonic
I mean yeah l don’t remember any sonic stage in the game that is 30 minutes long
I think another factor to why Forces gets this hyperbolic PTSD reaction is that it was arguably the accumulation of alot of problems people had in with the 2010's decade of Sonic, combined with how it was hard to be a Sonic fan in peace at the time. It made alot of fans, especially those of the 2000's games, become really vocal about how Sonic was being mistreated and thus becoming more appreciative of the 2000's era games for what they tried to accomplish.
TelekinesticMan made a recent good video on how 3D Sonic level/game design had fallen into a lot of repeptive traps over the years like Homing Attack chains, very automated sections, etc. Feel like Forces was the culmination of all of those traps.
I also believe Sonic Forces is the crystallization of that brand of 2010's Sonic, particularly western Sonic. One of the core pillars of the Sonic IP in the 2010's was the social media accounts, and the people in charge of those social media accounts would often engage by making fun of how bad Sonic games were. It clearly worked, because they got a lot of attention and followers for it. It was one of the few things people liked about Sonic back then, the social media.
Forces' writing is like Tweeter Sonic writing. Someone here already pointed how Forces feels like Sonic Team was trying to please everyone to the point the game felt like a game generated by Reddit posts. The fact this game got a Sanic T-shirt DLC shows what the target audience for this game was. It truly was a sad and pathetic videogame.
The self deprecation did kind of get obnoxious after a while
The irony is that Sonic was way more mistreated in the 2000's than Forces even comes close to.
@@CanaldoZenny So you're saying that social media ruined Sonic? Yeah I can quite see that. Although I think some are right to say that it was still wasted potential in the sense that they could've done more than just reuse things that have been done before. It doesn't add anything new and hence, only adds onto mediocrity. So I still think it was wasted potential. You don't have a clear vision or direction on where you want to go. I think some can agree that it's still wasted potential nonetheless.
People expected something big because the premise was big. "Eggman conquered the entire world and recruited old foes!" And ruined every step of the premise.
- Eggman - it doesn't really show how world looks like under Eggman's rule. Returning stages but mixed Eggmanland is something that writes itself.
- Conquered - entire conquest is done offscreen with black screen with text.
- Entire world - it sounds like another world adventure like Unleashed but doesn't really explore it. Wouldn't it be cool to see polluted Seaside Hill, Mazuri where Eggman is doing petty revenge for that rock, Robotnikland in ruins of Station Square... So much lost potential to explore the changed world.
- Recruited - no, he didn't, those are illusions. It would be so interesting to see what would convince real Chaos and Shadow to join Eggman. It's interesting mystery that got ruined.
- Old foes - Only Zavok got a proper boss fight. Metal Sonic got Infinite 3 reskin, which is disappointing. Chaos and Shadow got defeated in one shot in a cutscene, so we don't even fight them...
Because of that, the game was a big bundle of disappointment. It simply promised too much and didn't deliver anything. If it promised as much it provided - decent simple adventure without annoying alternate gameplay styles and filler - it would be better received.
@Gnidel We already saw Eggman wins scenarios in CD if you mess up and in Unleashed. There's really nothing new in it Forces did besides throwing in a transparent attempt to pander to the cut of the fandom into the DiC shows and Archie with Fleetway.
And you didn't even mention the expectations people on on Infinite after all the hyping up the trails made and him having this OP rock that matched Super Sonic from Mania and all.
There had to be a degree of false advertisement in there somewhere indeed.
@rynobehnke8289 The expectations were just him being another Shadow and otherwise not matching fanfic ideas.
The actual idea behind Infinite is that he was a merc who wished he could be a king in the post-apocalypse and made up some fantasy world where he was some mega badass killer but got smacked around by Shadow and that made that fantasy world die. He's frankly interesting for a Sonic villain since he's pretty much just its version of a spree killer or mass killer soldier under Eggman. He'd be someone who'd post on reddit on how Rick Sanchez or BBC Sherlock or whatever comic supervillain is just like him who got magical jewelry that allowed him to blow up anyone who looked at him funny.
@@rynobehnke8289Midfinite tbh
the thing about Forces is that it's not really "bad", just mediocre to an almost malicious degree. it's the most 5/10 thing to ever exist.
Funny you say that,considering I also put forces around 5/10 it’s not an absolutely awful game like lost world, but it doesn’t do anything we haven’t already seen. And the stuff it does do is substantially worse than the games it originally came from. I used to hate forces, but nowadays I just don’t care about the game enough to bash on it so much.
How is lost world awful? I don't think it's good or anything, but it's not so atrocious that no one should speak of it! Not defending it or anything, I just feel like the hate is a little exaggerated
Oh no I’m definitely over exaggerating, and it’s not like i ignore lost world entirely, I’m talking about it right now aren’t I? It’s just that lost world isn’t trying to be a sonic game at all. It was a Mario game first and a sonic fake second, and it didn’t even do a good job at copying Mario galaxy. I mean cmon, they didn’t even bother with zavok spiky gauntlets, lava castles, growing big and spewing flames out of his mouth? Could you make a more unoriginal villain than that. I could go on and on but the point is, lost world doesn’t try to be a sonic game. Almost everything that makes sonic “sonic” is totally gone here, mainly through gameplay. Hopefully that answers your question cringus
@@Gabriel-cq3cq oh, ok
Did you play both Mario Galaxy and Sonic Lost World@@Gabriel-cq3cq
"Why this game? Why is this one so much worse than anything else the series has done before?"
&
"But I don't really know why people would expect so much for this game."
The thing with games like Lost World, Boom and similar stuff is that those games all had new gameplay styles. Forces was going to use the boost formula again and basically every boost game is beloved (let's ignore the Werehog in Unleashed). So people were expecting a return to form. A return to Colours, Unleashed and/or Generations.
People especially thought this because they marketed the game with the words "from the team who made Sonic COLOURS and Sonic GENERATIONS!" (or something similar to that).
So, people were rightfully excited because those games are popular which can only mean that Forces must be similar if it's made by the same people.
Nobody could have thought that this statement basically was a marketing lie.
I mean, sure. Companies lie all the time. But that statement basically was a straight up lie JUST to market the game. Technically speaking it wasn't a lie because (for example) the writers were the same, but we all know that nobody thought about the writing when they told us that lie. It's technically speaking not false marketing but we all know that in all actuality...it is false marketing.
It was similar to what Gamefreak pulled with Pokemon Sword/Shield. Only with Gamefreak it was actually a big deal due to how much bigger Pokemon as a franchise is in comparison to Sonic. Also, the Pokemon community was actually surprised by how bad Sword/Shield turned out (I actually liked Gen 8, but many people didn't). In other words: they weren't as desperate for good games in their franchise as the Sonic fanbase was.
People were also pretty charitable towards Sonic Team & SEGA in the timeframe before Forces released. Why?
Well, firstly people were just desperate for a new good Sonic game due to how much the franchise and it's community was being viewed as a joke...and secondly people thought "finally they listen to the fans and give us what we want. A new boost Sonic game!"
Also, like I'm gonna mention below in a bit more detail...many TH-camrs hyped Forces way more up than it actually deserved which also raised expectations.
Personally speaking I also thought that the game looked pretty bad in early gameplay showcases. But I was willing to give it a chance because...well, it's from "The Team who made Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations" so it had so be good, right? Surely it's just gonna be the early stages which play completely automated, right?
Well, how foolish I was. And many other people were similarly foolish due to SEGAs completely disingenuous marketing. A lot of people since then have trust issues in SEGA and Sonic because Forces marketing actually actively lied to us.
Sure, Boom was bad. Sure, Lost World was bad. But at least they didn't lie to us while marketing those games.
And "enjoy a breathtaking adventure" or similar stuff doesn't count as a lie in my opinion because that's just general marketing stuff.
Nobody gives anything about statements like that anymore.
But "Enjoy this breathtaking adventure made by the people who made these games which you previously loved and adored and still play to this day!" ...Well, that's obviously a straight up lie.
I also personally remember that a lot of TH-camrs in the timeframe shortly before Forces released were actually praising the game. Some even claiming "I got to play it and I think it's more fun than Mario Odyssey!" That also stirred up more hype about the game which made the whole experience even worse once people actually experienced the product.
In short:
Sure, Forces isn't really the worst Sonic game. But it was the one which felt the most disingenuously marketed and it actually felt like SEGA was lying to us.
The only other game in the franchise where something similarly disingenuous happened was Sonic 06.
That's also why people compare Forces and 06. Not because both games are similar in quality (Forces is sadly but clearly the better one) but because both games feel like complete a**holemoves towards the fanbase.
Also something similarly important to mention here:
Both games are embarrassing in comparison to similar games which came out around the same time.
Edit:
Yes, Sonic Forces was only a 40€/$ game, but I just thought "Oh, they can't put the price higher due to how short Sonic games boost usually are." I was a bit worried about the quality of the game due to the 40€/$ price but that was explainable, at least to me (in some places it actually was fully priced, I think).
Another edit:
I personally also disagree with some of the games you listed as being "worse" than Forces.
I enjoy the 8-Bit Sonic games more in comparison to Forces (but only the fan remakes).
I enjoy Lost Worlds main version more in comparison to Forces. That game does have a huge amount of flaws but at least the gameplay is unique and not a sucky watered down version of gameplay style which I love & adore. And some stages in Lost World are actually fun to speedrun. Mainly the ones which have mostly 3D gameplay & no gimmicks.
I would play Sonic & the Black Knight ANY day over Forces and I'm not just saying that because of the story. Every time I play Black Knight I have fun in doing so without any degrading thoughts towards the game (except the motion controls, but Dolphin fixes that). Every time I play Forces I don't have fun doing so because most of the time I'm just thinking "I should play Unleashed, Colours or Generations right now." I instinctively compare those games due to how similar the gameplay is and I instinctively get annoyed while playing Forces due to how much I compare it to it's boost predecessors.
Sorry, but I just have to say it once:
Forces sucks. It's terrible.
Not because it actually is a bad game but because in comparison to daytime Unleashed gameplay or...well, all of Generations it just falls flat. And the only way for me to SOMEWHAT enjoy Forces is to shut out the nagging voice in my head which just continuously tells me "Unleashed is better, why are you playing this?! Stop playing this. Play a better game!"
Also, they fu**ed up the controls. The acceleration feels completely off and that is a HUGE issue in my opinion. Is the game unplayable due to the controls? No. But does it feel bad & unnatural in comparison to previous boost Sonic games? Yes. And that's saying something because previous boost games also had issues in that regard.
Correct. This game had its hand set to win, and they... bungled it up.
Sometimes i wonder why the comment section is better then the video
Also i argue about sonic boom rise of lyric having false advertising by cutting contents that was shown in early trailers,but then i remembered the behind scenes of this game and the fact it was designed for consoles that wasn't the Wii U so it gets a pass i guess
sonic fans can handle a game with poor ideas, a game that is janky, a game that is confusing... but we can't handle a game that feels cynical and soulless. between the total lack of vision involved in the game, the shallow attempts to pander to every single demographic of sonic fan at once, the regression in gameplay and story compared to previous games, and the most disingenuous marketing campaign sega has pulled since 06, forces felt like a big middle finger to anybody who was invested in sonic as a franchise.
pariah said he didn't believe that forces was a soulless and cynical game, i disagree. a game pumped out without a vision is inherently cynical, it felt like this game only existed to perpetuate the sonic franchise and to turn another profit rather than to share something valuable and interesting with the consumer. say what you will about the storybook games, or about 06, but at least those games were interesting. even lost world had some interesting mechanics to play around with. there was clearly some thought put behind making these games memorable and impactful, even if they failed in the end. i cannot say the same for forces. if pariah believes otherwise then i'd like to hear his opinion but he didn't really explain these things in the video. maybe he has different ideas than i do about what it means for a game to be cynical.
I expected the game to get lambasted for the OC thing after release, but the mechanic itself just drawing shrugs from most people (mixed to positive reviews but ultimately forgotten?) is kinda weird considering that's one of the things people make fun of Sonic the most on.
As for my thoughts on the game? Air boost physics are fun when you get to use them (even if it is broken, diving in that one lategame level was fun) other than that, avatar felt slow and classic sonic felt bad, game just feels really boring and does that thing most of the 3d games are known for where you want to play as sonic, but have to play other gameplay styles too.
@@sugarsmile7852 Cutting content is a shitty thing to do but that part is at least understandable and happens all the time in gaming. That's just something we sadly have to deal with. But there is a difference between "sorry, we couldn't finish all the environments for the finished product, but we tried our best." in comparison to "sorry, we told you this game was made by the people who made games which you previously loved, but in actuality it wasn't. But thanks for the money anyway!"
The first statement doesn't feel like a lie to me because if they had more time & budged Sonic Boom could have turned out different. When they showed early Sonic Boom trailers they probably were actually planning to include all the trailer content into the final product.
The second statement wouldn't change with time & money. They knowingly lied to us from the get-go with Forces and that lie wouldn't suddenly become true with more time & budget.
So in short:
I think there is a huge difference between showing stuff which sadly doesn't make it into the final product & straight up knowingly lying into our faces. Sonic Boom felt like tough luck in that regard. Forces actually feels malicious towards the fanbase. Not malicious by Sonic Team/the devs who worked on the game but by the people who marketed the game & the higher ups at SEGA.
Forces feels to me a game that was trying to please as many fans as possible and in doing so pleased none: "you guys like boost games? Sure! You still think Classic is best? Have him too. All you furry fans wanna make your OCs? Go ahead. You guys want the Freedom Fighters vibe? Go for it! You want another dark, emo animal villain? By all means. Wisps? Sure!...." and so on, so on. It's like if an AI tried to make a Sonic game based entirely on Reddit posts.
Yeah, the classic saying of "By trying to please everyone, you please no one." Trying to please every single group in the Sonic fanbase likely isnt possible, best have different teams that work on seperate games.
Another "sonic team puts elements from previous games without understanding why people liked those games"
I also feel the same way about frontiers. Specifically, its story.
th-cam.com/video/o5Myw7yAR0c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3usW352RduT3uauf
This guy explained it 👆
You tired of having to collect the emeralds. Well you can just buy super sonic for free!
Waiting for sonic schoolhouse - sonic was always good
I think the main reason Forces has such a negative legacy is the state of the Sonic series when it came out. Coming off of Lost World and Sonic Boom with a game that’s just mediocre was the last straw for a lot of Sonic fans. 2017 was the year Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey and Resident Evil 7 came out, all these long-running game series were redefining themselves to widespread praise. Meanwhile Sonic was just throwing out another budget title that was a worse version of a game that came out 2011.
Seeing Mario Odyssey give Mario a legit Spindash, but Sonic Forces having very bland level design was something lol.
@@theimpersonator7086 One with natural acceleration instead of setting your speed on top of it
For freaking real. One thing that many “pessimist” fans have said that always got under my skin is that Sonic isn’t in the best place he could be, or that the newer games are buggier and are not up to quality compared to other franchises. And as much as I hate to admit it, I’m beginning to see their point. Why does Sonic always have to released rushed games that are barely finished and end up getting a 5-7 on metacritic? It’s barely below the bar and the franchise deserves better than this.
"Why this game!? Why is this one so much worse than anything else the series has done before"
1. Because everyone was hyped for it
2. Because it was the most recent game
3. Because we waited 4 years for another main series Sonic game after nothing but Sonic Boom and Mobile games
4. Because Sonic Mania made it look even worse, Mario Odyssey and the Crash N.Sane Trilogy also came out the same year,
5. The False advertising (Chaos and the Gens Devs lie)
6. Because of Sonic's reputation in the 2010s
7. Because this is the most souless Sonic game, making games like 06 look like a masterpiece
This vid should help: th-cam.com/video/WDywWfM_4NE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UreWhuWFLYYsbYtC
This game certainly did not make 06 look like a masterpiece.
Alot of this could apply to many different sonic games, this game is no different from all the other flavors of garbage sonic games
@@VirtuousAezon Read the whole thing
@@Mikayla-un9ye my thoughts stay the same
@@VirtuousAezon Brand Defender
I think it's a little in poor faith to say everyone who worked on this game isn't proud of the work they did. Aside from Ohtahni there are probably tons of people that worked really hard on certain aspects, environment designers, artists, level designers, sound designers etc. It's just a shame their work went to making something that was ultimately very underwhelming.
It's a good day when Pariah drops
Where did Pariah drop? Is he okay?
Sonic Forces fails at everything it set out to do, that's why people hate it. It has Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic but both of them play worse than in Generations. It has boost style levels but they're worse than the ones in the other boost games. It had a great premise with the story being more of a focus and a more serious tone, and then we got an absolute mess of a plot that barely makes any sense. The avatar was shown off as this amazing thing where you could make your own character like in Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2, but the visual customisations sucked and the gameplay was just a worse version of Sonic but with wips (even though there's no reason why Sonic shouldn't have been able to just use the wisps himself). Basically after Generations they released Lost World which was terrible, then we waited all this time and were hyped up by the trailers showing all these cool things, and then when the game actually came out it was a complete let down. People are completely justified in hating this game, it scarred people so badly that now when we see Shadow boost in a straight line for a half a second we all have PTSD flashbacks to Sonic Forces. I remember when the Frontiers gameplay trailer dropped and Sonic was able to accelerate smoothly and the stomp impact sound played when you hit the ground instead of when you pressed the button, I was genuinely relieved because any scraps of faith I had in Sonic Team had been completely shattered after Forces. Sonic Forces was so terrible that they managed to mess up Sonic accelerating forwards in a straight line, that's the level the game is at in a lot of people's eyes.
the fact that they screwed up sonic accelerating in a straight line is truly remarkable
Forces has problems, dude… but PTSD isn’t justified.
Even with all that said, the hate this game got was overblown as shit and if Sonic Team had another year, everything could’ve been more fleshed out and refined.
From the complaints on Linearity, Hedgehog Engine 2, Custom Avatar standing in for Sonic’s Friends, etc…
Now to go off on a tangent, You know what I think about Frontiers, in spite of giving it some deserved leeway? Frontiers is overcorrection. It was made for people who never played a Sonic Game, or the ones who think linearity was the main problem with Sonic Games.
Sure the writing is better, and it’s fun to run around the open worlds, but it feels too generic. Plus any level from Forces is better than Cyberspace because the controls make me wish I was on autopilot.
With what Sonic X Shadow Generations is trying to do, it honestly looks like a combination between Forces and Frontiers.
On the Forces end, SXS Gens looks like a more refined version of that in terms of controls and level design… and I think this is THE direction Modern Sonic Gameplay should be.
@@gameman5804 I agree with that last part, SXSG is exactly what I wanted from Forces. It plays pretty similarly to Generations but adds the bigger set pieces and QTEs from Forces. I liked Frontiers but the worst part of that game for me was the open world. If it was just level based with the guardians being mini bosses and the titans being the final boss of each "zone" that would honestly be an improvement to me. I don't dislike the cyberspace level designs but the controls are no good. Sonic is way too slow and can't drift, the boost doesn't hurt enemies and the homing attack is super slow and laggy so fighting enemies is awful. SXSG seems to fix most of that though so that's a plus.
@@voltricity1942 It's literally because they romhacked Lost World's run button into a fake attempt at acceleration, what happens in simple terms is that when you hold forward you start in Lost World's "walk" mode, and then after moving forward a bit the game automatically turns on "run button" mode, making that sudden jerk forward in speed. Sure, they buffed the speed of both modes considerably but it's still bad. Why on earth they decided to jerry-rig Lost World's run button into a fake attempt at acceleration instead of just having normal smooth acceleration (which is REALLY easy to do, I could probably load up a Unity project and implement it on some cube myself in 10 minutes and I've never even touched Unity in my life) I will probably never understand. Surely they didn't hard-code the run button THAT hard in the Lost World framework that they literally couldn't change it...because if so that's especially bad.
@@mobas07
The open world is EXACTLY what I mean in terms of over-correction, and is why I genuinely feel a little bitter with Frontiers today.
25:01
It's fine, the cash grab would come later in the form of the attempted Super Sonic DLC
I still can't believe they tried to charge money for that shit lmao.
@@Neawn-by5piAnd they learned absolutely nothing with Colours Ultimate
Horse armor strikes again :(
Reminds me about how much stuff used to be free at disney >20 years ago and are now aren't
10:25 It is so weird how you're so passionate about Sonic as a character and a game IP, but never delved into creative work because of it. As an artist (not a good one btw) who picked the pencil in the childhood and learned to draw because of the influence of Sonic and later even made his own Sonic OC and fanfics I can safely say that Sonic the hedgehog is more than just a videogame.
For me, and this always been the case, Sonic, the real Sonic, is the drive to pursue creative endeavors. The spark that one need to do something. You said once Sonic was a very appealing character and that his design was a work of a genius, and I think that was a starting point for a lot of artists. I don't know how to explain this because I'm not a professional, but there's something in Sonic you cannot find in many places. Sonic is one of those once-in-a-generation creations that grows so large that it surpasses the medium it came from. I believe the original Sonic Team created something truly special, and every time some engage with Sonic they tap into that special mind-space that let you achieve great things.
This is why I cannot bring myself to hate "modern" Sonic, at least the Sonic games from the 2000's, and all the weird yet fascinating things this fandom has created over the years. I think this is why hardcore Sonic fans dislike the 2010's games so much, but love Frontiers. Frontiers is a mess of game design, but unknowingly or not, the devs, in a few moments, tapped into that strange special place that made the game resonate with Sonic fans and artists. I haven't seen so much fan art and fan music inspired by a new Sonic since Black Knight in 2009! It is that spark, that inspiration to draw, to learn to compose music, to make your own game, to express yourself, that is what Sonic the Hedgehog is to me. Far more than just a character or a videogame.
And some good things came out of the Forces' Avatar! A lot of people use the avatar customization as the starting point for making their own OCs. On Steam' forums there's always people making fan arts of their Forces' avatars and posting there. Many people struggle with coming up with character abilities or clothing, so the Avatar customization helps cross that starting line. On gamebanana there are mods to add more species to this game, like dragons. In fact, many of the new characters introduced in the IDW comics began as Forces' Avatars. They used the avatar as a starting point to get the initial idea for the character, then refined the design on paper.
I don't think it's all that weird. I've been a Sonic fan since I was 5 or 6 and also never made my own OC.
Yes, I did write fanfiction, and I did attempt to draw the characters, but I never made a self-insert or any other original character that existed within that world. Like Pariah, I only really cared about the characters in the games. (Also, maybe that's part of the reason why I was never able to get into the comics as a kid since those characters didn't feel like Sonic characters. Design-wise, the Archie characters don't look like they're from the same universe (stuff like having human hair and their body proportions). I also grew up with Sonic X and wasn't really a big fan of the human characters. So basically, the concept of making my own character wasn't appealing when Sonic himself existed. That, and all of his friends).
But as someone who has been in the Sonic fandom for a while, I understand the prevalence of Sonic OCs. Actually, I'd be lying if I said I didn't make my own OCs, though they only served plot purposes or were created for that one time I experimented with writing a fanfic about how people who aren't associated with Sonic would react to getting mixed up with the cast's shenanigans. That latter case was written before The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog came out.
14:28 “Only the Avatar is capable of mastering all special character abilities.” Had to make that reference myself as a massive fan of ATLA lol.
"Not to toot my own horn, but I gotta say, I think my gameplay here makes this game look pretty fun." Nah.
I personally agree. But for me, I was already speedrunning levels from it for quite a while now(at least 5 years)
Honestly it does a lot of the time. I saw him performing so many tricks, skips, and other cool Sonic-y stuff to get good times that I've NEVER seen anyone else perform ever, he did genuinely make a lot of parts of the game (mostly 2D areas admittedly) look pretty fun to master.
@@legoboy7107 I still don't think it looks fun because I know and can see how stiff the movement in Sonic Forces is, and the amount of stuff that can just be flown over with a jump or a boost double jump isn't fun either... I do that too, it's just boring to me.
@@anotherblob8095 understandable 👍
I think it was also that there were 5 years where forces was the only sonic game.
I think we've far crossed the need for the title "Sonic was always good" at this point
the title is in past tense tho
to repeat an old comment I made (that got aggressive sonic fanboy attention lol)
"Was sonic always good?" is a lot clearer of a title that would probably look less like bait on videos about the disliked games in the series.
@@jawoseye2902 “Always” means Sonic has never been bad, while in the same videos with that title many bad games are covered that Pariah himself says he doesn’t like
I get why you seem baffled about why Sonic fans treat this game worse than 06. I'll try my best to explain the needed context from my perspective at the time so it makes more sense.
Forces was announced after a string of terrible Sonic releases, Lost World and Boom which absolutely blew the good will the Sonic series managed to scrounge up after 06 out of the water. The general internet had made most 2000s Sonic games the laughing stock of the video game industry and it was generally considered cringe to be into Sonic games. However, for people like me we still had faith - that somehow, Sonic Team could turn it all around and deliver something we could enjoy. The Forces marketing campaign has to he studied man. That Sonic Boom fest reveal single-handedly set up Forces and the franchise to come for failure: "From the creators of Sonic Generations and Sonic Colors". The remaining Sonic fans such as myself felt like we finally had something to get hype about after all the waiting. Not even the reveal of classic Sonic was enough to deter the excitement felt at the time. And then, the game came out. At first I was in complete denial. I had just gotten my Switch for Christmas, I thought I'd give the game the benefit of the doubt despite everything I had heard.
I couldn't even make it past the 4th level without putting the game down, never picking it back up again until i recently bought it on PC this year. It was a complete and utter betrayal of the fandom that still believed in the series and it LEGITIMATELY was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Everything that all the haters were saying about the Sonic series all that time finally became fact when Forces released. I can never forget or pretend like that isn't more profound then the game being simply terrible like 06 was. It's been almost 7 years and we're still healing from the PTSD of that game 😭
God, a fair critique on Sonic Forces, you love to see it.
Yes, it's overhated indeed, and I'm still gonna hate it to the grave lol
Based on
I think the "bad game is better than a mid game because at least the bad game makes you feel something" only works to a certain point. Like if the game is bad because it's poorly designed and leads to a lot of frustration. I'd argue a boring game is better because even if you are bored the time you are spending isn't as dreadful.
Ehh, I see what you mean but being bored can also be quite dreadful. Especially if it's something like the Werehog in Unleashed where the boredom is just worsened by the fun daytime Sonic gameplay.
The thing is, slopic farces made you (at least me) feel nothing
@@tadaokou4919Yeah, Unleashed is a special type of dreadful in the first playthrough.
I never really could agree with the bad game > boring game topic because (Just play a good game lol) I guess I'd rather be slightly inconvenienced, but feel fine rather than being very inconvenienced and unhappy. For example, I find 3D Blast boring, but I can play it whereas Labyrinth is bad, memed on a lot and something that's just not worth playing.
Then again, Ive never had strong feelings for many games
Classic Sonic's level design feels like they are designed around the physics of the original games but then they saw that the physics of forces were not half as good so added a bunch of springs all over the place.
The moment Pariah's fans have been waiting for.
The real fans are waiting for him to be done with Sonic
I've been waiting for the longest time
I can't believe it's real
Pariah695: why yes. I have been waiting for the longest time. (I forgot what he said after this.)
The fact you said this was better than most games in the series is baffling💀💀
I respect your opinion if that's how you feel, but dawg.... how...
I can see it, tbh. Imo, Forces is a very decent game
@@Hyp3rSonicNo offense to you, but seeing your comment history saying Sonic 4 is good, I can only presume you're a very young fan. Sorry, but I'm not taking your word over someone who's played the games for YEARS and seen all the struggles. Forces is FAR below decent, it's a 5/10 at best.
@@innocentzbatI never said you had to have the same opinions as me. What made you think that? 🤔 But I actually changed my opinion about 4. Episode 1 is very decent, while 2 just decent. I still think that Gens is the best sonic game, and it's also my favorite video game of all time. I also have been playing sonic games for about 12 years. You have the right to think that Forces isn't decent, just like I can think it is.
Also, I dont what me being 19 has to do with this. I would still have the same opinions if i was younger, or older. Also, i honesly dont care what people think of my opinions, or if they will judge me. At least I didn't blindly defend Forces, or any other game that I had fun playing. I can acknowledge the flaws. So I'm very confused.
For example, I think that Unleashed and The Final Horizon DLC is extremely flawed, but I still had fun playing those...mostly. However, I prefer Forces, Colors and Generations over Unleashed, since I had more fun overall with those 3. Also, imo, those games are better than Unleashed, imo. I also prefer Superstars over Mania, even tho I think that Mania is the better game. I prefer sonic adventure 1 over the sequel, since I had more fun playing the 1st one, and because I think sa2 is more flawed. 06 is a bad game, but I had fun playing it despite its flaws. I prefer CD and 1 over 2, 3, and Knuckles, even tho I think that 2, 3, and Knuckles are better games. Sonic 4 Ep. 1 has better and less questionable level and game design then 2, and I also had more fun playing 1 overall. Another thing is that I much prefer to speedrun shorter levels, than longer ones. It's also why I really like Forces, CD, 1, Colors, Frontiers and Update 3 for the most part(I don't rly like 2 specific cyberspace levels) For example, I will probably speedrun green hill act 1 from origins, then to speedrun death egg act 2 from origins. In Mania, I will probably be more likely to speedrun Stardust Speedway 2 then Titanic Monarch 1 or 2.
Anyways, on an objective level, i think that ill put forces somewhere at the 10th spot, or somewhere like that. 06 is obviously at the bottom. Generations is 1. Then its Colors, Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, Mania, 2, Superstars, Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic Advance 1... probably? Anyways, for me, its Generations, Forces, 06, Superstars and Colors Ultimate. Those are my top 5 favorite sonic games.
Also, I have seen the ups and downs on Sonic, in fact, I dont even need to play the games to find out that 06 is bad, or that 3D Blast was mid, or the other stuff. I can just look at it on a video or look it up on the internet
Also, I haven't played every mainline, or spinoff game, for example, I didnt play heroes, black knight, secret rings, shadow 05, lost world, gens 3ds, rise of lyric, battle, advance 2 and 3, rush and rush adventure, pocket adventure, the 8 bit games, the rpg, pinball party, Knuckles chaotix, segasonic the hedgehog, and some other ones
also, i heard that the gameplayfor the storybooks werent great, which is a big issue, i gotta say(and the many reviews i seen)@@innocentzbat , the sonic 2 for game gear and master system was trial and error, and had huge difficulty spikes all the way thro. Sonic Spinball is also extremely hard. Also, the gba port of sonic 1 exists. Also, I heard that heroes had very slippery controls, repetition, and the fact that you had to beat the game 4 times to unlock the Finale. Also, the special stages. Sonic rush has its fair share of BS, same with advance 1 and 3(but especially 2)
I think people have just forgotten how low the series fell during the 2000's. We got games that were worse than Forces back to back for almost a decade.
I have a bit of personal attachment for Forces as it was my second 3D Sonic game. I originally grew up with Sonic 2 through the SEGA Mega Drive collection on PSP, and when I got a Xbox 360, Generations was the first 3D Sonic I played, ever. However I then kinda forgot about Sonic up until 2016 when Mania and Forces was announced, I thought they look really cool, however I was more interested in Mania as I was a lot more familiar with Classic over Modern. It wouldn't be until Boxing Day 2017 that I remembered Forces. I went to Tesco to buy L.A. Noire on Nintendo Switch as that was my main gaming console I cared about, despite having a PS4, however the guy behind the counter said they didn't have it, but I didn't want to leave with nothing, so he went in the back and made a list of the Switch games they had, and the one that caught me was Forces, I honestly forgot about the game and decided to buy it, and even thought I was around 10p short, he let me have anyway. I got home and played it the rest of the day and I genuinely really liked it, even though for many people, I played the superior game before this.
I'm a lot kinder to Forces due to reading up on the development history, that is a genuine reason why this game just missed the mark for people, but I am glad I ended up enjoying my time with the game, and even 100% the game on Steam years later. It's better as a classic arcade game, a pick-up and play type title. It's nothing truly amazing, but It did make me happy and, at the end of the day, that's what matters most sometimes.
Fans consider it one of the worst Sonic games in spirit because it was pretty much the embodiment of how much was wrong with the behind the scenes situation. It had pretty much no ambition to it, and just tried to be a quick and safe game, but still failed at even trying to play it as safe as possible. It was Sonic Team aiming for the floor and missing.
I’ll emphatically disagree that Classic Sonic’s physics here is better than Sonic 4’s. What kills it for me is the jump controls mostly. The jump being as incredibly stiff as it is (Sonic cannot even accelerate midair with it, so if you lose speed or jump at a slower speed, you’re just stuck in that speed for the whole jump arch) and the fact that you lose any and all horizontal speed the moment you jump into an enemy, it just feels so wrong to me. Now I ain’t gonna pretend that Sonic 4 has amazing physics or anything, but at least you can still do stuff like loop jumps, jumping through and enemy and retaining all of your speed, and the air dash is broken and fun to use imo. And you can accelerate midair even if you start your jump at a slower speed. I will agree that the level design here in Forces for Classic is definitely better than Sonic 4’s stages, but I just disagree on the physics.
Otherwise I fully agree with you here. I did have quite the visceral reaction to this game when it released, purely because I did totally fall for the marketing and in general I was a young and stupid kid back then, but I play Forces these days and I just feel nothing. It’s so easy it’s mindless, the physics just pail in comparison to Generations, the level design is so short and weak that even the best stages suffer from it, etc. it’s just a nothing game to me in just about every way, so while I don’t necessarily hate it I do find it to be one of the most boring Sonic games easily.
Respectfully disagree. Forces is a very decent game(same for Sonic 4 Ep. 1) and Ep. 2 is just decent, i think. I had more fun playing Forces, however. Even more weird, is that i had the most amount of hours(about 355) for Forces, even tho its not my fav sonic game. That is Gens. Anyways, i had loads of fun playing all 4 of them
Haven’t played 4 Episode 1 in a LONG time… but Classic Sonic in Forces is still better than Cyberspace Controls In 2D.
I managed to complete that fucking marathon the day before the SPINDASH UPDATE! God dammit my thumb still hurts thinking about it.
@@gameman5804honestly, Cyberspace’s basic controls might be some of the worst controls in Sonic, both 2D and 3D imo lol. The open zone controls tho are pretty nice, very flawed but nice.
@@TehJellyLord
Cyberspace Controls are fucking awful in general, but you feel it more in 2D. At least Classic Sonic had the spindash out the gate and the drop dash actually functions.
@@TehJellyLordwould play any of those games over Unleashed anyway(for me)
I know I'm jumping the gun, but I'm really curious if Pariah is gonna use the Japanese or English dialogue for the Frontiers review. I could be completely wrong but I'm assuming since Ian Flynn wrote the dialogue that the English writing is the canon story? Again could be completely wrong.
@yaboihandman He'll focus on the Eng script since it was composed first but point out relevant cuts of the JP script since it tries to make the cast act more in-character to how SoJ sees them (see Amy and Eggman with Sage especially) I'm sure.
I really think a lot of why this game became kind of infamous was a sort of mix of reasons
TLDR tho: It basically was just a cocktail of all the misgivings and annoyances people had with the series as a whole at the time and it became the perfect scapegoat at the time for people to vent. Really its a big mid but I feel it also just did a LOT to REALLY get under people's skin unintentionally. Thats at least why i think this games so infamous, a sonic game has to do things besides being bad to get under many fan's skin, else series would have died multiple times over by now.
--- 1. Hype and expectations due to the premise and it being a return to the boost formula.
The premise of the game was a high stakes serious sounding return to more edgy sonic stories and was a return to the boost formula which helped bring sonic out of the slump of the later 2000s. People probably fairly assumed it was probably going for a story more akin to those 2000s games in terms of tone, or at least something a bit more self serious and not as goofy, because of all the serious and not goofy things going on like infinate, the premise, and even the setting and art style. The mix of its worse controls, very short length, questionable stages, really cheap even for 40 bucks presentation, and its wonky narrative it probably just did not work for people at al usually. It wants to both be a serious high stakes game with a lot of campy edge and themes but also this irony poisoned comedic light hearted story where things dont have much weight. That could kind of work but it doesnt evne put any effort to blend those opposite ideas so they just both sorta get into eachothers ways and ruin eachother's appeals.
--- 2. It really kinda steps on the toes of other sonic games, even if unintentionally, more than most other sonic games.
The game tends to just contradict or outright ignore even basic well established sonic things. Its even worse for it than sonic battle, and that game at least had a lot of really good elements to make up for those weird blatent inconsistances. There are a lot of just characterizations people dont like from this game, like how sonic acted while in jail which sorta feels like it just ignores how he acted in SA2's jail scene or even how that sonic should act in the boost era. The entire deal with tails being afraid of chaos 1 that everyone's complained about for obvious reasons. The entire classic sonic stuff both kinda messing with the entire point of generations, as well as dragging mania down with it by not letting it have a good ending. The way the rest of the cast gets treated in the game. Not to mention mania existing made its classic levels and physics look REALLY bad in a way that generations didnt have to deal with.
The game also is really bad for bringing up old material for no reason other than that its probably insecure, even when it makes no sense. Green hill's inclusion is really dumb and doesnt even make sense given they're not on south island. Even sonic advance went and made theirs a different "neo" green hill. The illusions bringing back iconic villains and zavok for the cool promo stuff only for them to do literally nothing, act nothing like how they usually do, and not matter was certainly a choice. Western material's done this premise much better yet it refused to learn from them, instead making the most nothing burger sonic game in the process. Its not even this game's fault for most of these things but there's just such a lack of consideration for the other games and nothing of its own to win fans over so I feel that really got under people's skin.
--- 3. 3D Sonic's position was already looking kind of rocky reputation wise due to the failures of lost world and boom as well as the success of mania.
The game had both BIG shoes to fill and BIG gaps to fill in a sense, and it did neither. Its pretty cut and straight forward, game was basically just affirming this slow decay sonic's branding was having in the minds of most people since it was such a nothing burger game.
--- 4. TH-camrs probably got a lot of content from it.
Like you dont invent a "beat this 40 dollar game supposebly short 2 hour long and get a refund" challenge unless you're after views. The game was VERY good at generating clicks which sorta fuels more and more of that to happen. Its short length and very sorta general cringe to BOTH sonic fans and non sonic fans made it kinda fun for everyone to clown on too. The character creator helped with this too since everyone could just make horrible looking OCs, even if I actually think the creator was the coolest addition to the game. the creator being SO barebones really didnt help things though.
I thought this game was bad and so disappointing in my opinion.
I think what made Sonic Forces such a sticking point among Sonic fans wasn't so much the game itself but the precedent it set. Like yeah, Rise of Lyric was a failed experiment, Lost World was super experimental, where all Sonic Forces really had to do was just make more of Sonic Generations in a new console generation.
Now I didn't own a Wii U so I missed out on Rise of Lyric and Lost World until it came to PC, so this was my first post-Generations 3D Sonic game, and it was just disheartening to see that a completely non-experimental game that used existing playstyles that were good, could unearth brand new issues seemingly out of nowhere.
And it raised the question of like, is this just what Sonic games are now? Tiny levels? Barely any player input? Fortunately Frontiers proved me wrong.
I don’t mind people showing all the good things in a bad game, but I don’t think going full apologist is the way to go
He wasn't tho? 🤔
@@Hyp3rSonicI don’t know, the “well other games were buggy too” and “it wasn’t supposed to be a big game” hit me the wrong way. Like let’s agree it’s bad but look at some good things about it
Respectfully disagree
Not everyone thinks Forces is bad tho. Im not one of those people. Imo, its very decent, and i wont change that. In fact, i won't let people change that, that's kinda silly to do.👍but even if it was a bad game(like 06 imo) I still had a ton of fun playing 06. And if I have fun playing a game, that's honestly all that matters(for me) but Generations will always be my fav sonic game. But forces and 06 are 2nd and 3rd retrospectively. @@JAM609
For example, I think that Unleashed is extremely flawed, however, I respect other people's opinion on that game. For me, I did had fun, but there was questionable moments.
Oh, but you can think that about Forces, and I respect it. But all that I say is for you to respect mine, even if you disagree with it.
Also, extremely yikes that you think??? That everyone thinks that Forces is bad, when that's not true(I just proven it, and you'll see some other comments here saying similar things) Just saying. For the video, I personally can't see how he was being questionable, but maybe that's just me
@@Hyp3rSonicI disrespectfully disagree
@@Hyp3rSonicsonic 06 pfp moment
There's no way he's going to say something positive about Forces... Is he?
Kinda
Sorta, I mean he was more positive here compared to Lost World LOL
It's more so ambivalence. Less "Sonic Forces has some good things" and more "Sonic Forces isn't great but it's not bottom of the barrel Sonic content".
@@castform7 Exactly
I mean, graphics are nice and music is mostly good so there’s good points. Too bad everything in the gameplay and story sucks.
this is a really compassionate perspective on forces and it changed how i view it, thanks for this
re the thing about preferring bad things rather than middling things-for me, it’s not that i like to laugh at bad things, but rather it’s that i want things that are ambitious, and give their all to TRY to do something interesting, even if the end product ends up being incredibly flawed. i would rather have something with interesting ideas at its core that are worth talking and thinking about for extended periods of time, than something that’s just overall kind of nothing, like forces.
this is why, as an example, 06 has taken up so much space in my brain-there are SO MANY THINGS i find fascinating about that game and seeing stuff like project 06 makes me feel so vindicated for my utter love for it. and it’s also why i find frontiers so refreshing-it feels like FINALLY they’re actually putting a foot forward and committing to SOMETHING, and it’s WORKING. it may not be my ideal for a sonic game, it may be flawed, but what sonic game isn’t flawed? the sonic adventure games are wonderful but they aren’t without their fair share of problems (someone please tell yuji naka that game controllers have more than one button). sonic unleashed, for all the good that game does, has the werehog. sonic and the black knight has the divisive motion controls, which is INTERESTING. that’s an interesting thing they did! i would take a million flawed but interesting things that take risks over something inoffensive but just kind of bland. and hey, sometimes the risk is worth it.
For me, I hate Forces so much because being boring is the worst thing a game can be. That's why Lost World and Forces are my least favorite 3D games. They have absolutely no staying power. I've gone back to 06 and Secret Rings, I regularly play Black Knight. I play my favorite levels in Shadow all the time. Every other 3D Sonic game I've gone back to time and time again. Forces is the only 3D game I've had absolutely no urge to go back to since its release. It was supposed to be the follow up to Generations gameplay wise, it was supposed to be a huge story with high stakes. Instead, we got nothing. Even the games I'm not to hot on gameplay wise give me something else to latch on to, like the level themes or the story. Forces fails in both of those regards too. That's at least my reason for hating Forces so much. I have a feeling a lot of other people feel the same way.
This game is so hated because it is catastrophicslly worse than Gens in every single aspect that it's depressing. People really believed that Forces would continue the streak of good games that was pulling Sonic out of its dark age, only to fail miserably.
Yeah people hate on sonic forces and its sad
@@cartoonamc9328 Forces deserves the hate
@@ultrascarlet5275 why I think it’s good expect the story and classic sonic
@@ultrascarlet5275I disagree...somewhat
This video starts off feeling pretty reductionistic of people complaints about the game when you summarize it as "its biggest crime is that it's not very good" and that you think it's fine because you didn't have high expectations of the game, but the entire rest of the video goes down almost the entire list of reasons *why* people really, REALLY dislike the game, and it just kind of comes off like you shrug those reasons aside because you personally didn't think it was that big a deal because the games just mediocre. This just makes the video feel really weird, like, you're on the cusp of understanding why people don't like it, you even call the game "pathetic", but you never cross fully into seeing the dissatisfaction with the game.
Huh?
@Hyp3rSonic The video isn't very good because the argument is that Sonic Forces is "good" or "fine" but then lists every reason why people wouldn't like it.
@Cai_Behr The video is not about Sonic Forces is a good video game. He uses the "Sonic was always good" in Sonic 4.
@@Cai_Behr It's weird to me. Like I don't think people having expectations or wishing a game was more than it is are invalid or somehow flawed. Wanting something to be something else is still interacting with what something is in reality. I don't understand why people wanting Generations standard that they didn't receive or being disappointed in Forces standard "for what it is" is somehow considered weird and irrational. And it feels like you could say his opinion boils down to "I thought it was fun for what it is, no one else's opinion matters" which is fine for him personally but doesn't negate other people's negative opinions on it. His statement also presumes people agree with his perception of what are and aren't good sonic games and that Sonic Forces situation is the same as other (flawed) sonic games.
In my opinion, I don't think he shrug those reasons aside due to personal belief or ignorance, I think he did that because he analyzes Sonic games in a vacuum of space rather than considering the circumstances of the time the game got released, so it makes sense that he'd not consider all the previous games being massive disappointments and Forces being the breaking point of the Sonic community as a whole.
Or maybe not, I don't really know Pariah in a personal level, so there's still a chance that he was being just ignorant.
24:50
To clear up some confusion, Sonic Forces (the actual game itself) was only in development for 1 year (2016-2017). The rest of the development time was spent on the conceptual stage (2014-2016) and the development of Hedgehog Engine 2 (that started in 2013 after Sonic Lost World).
4 years to make an engine and inmediately throw it to the trash after 1 game in favor of unreal, because these people couldn't make one good decision to save their lives.
@@manzanito3652to be fair, HE2 was later used in Mario&Sonic games, Sakura Wars, and Frontiers with Shadow Generations coming up next,so it's definitely not abandoned
@@dirtkiller23 Wasn't frontiers made eith unreal?
@@manzanito3652 Frontiers wasn't made with UE
Sonic Forces is, imo, the least satisfying Sonic game. After all that time, it wasn't a home run... a double, or even a bunt. It was a swing and miss. It never gets going. Any time you feel it has potential, the level ends.
06 was poorly made, with a ton of vision, scope, drive.
Lost World was well made, but perhaps the wrong direction.
This is just... nothing. No vision, nothing to dig into... it's a like getting a new Bike but not being able to bring it outdoors.
Also: saying the physics in this are "better than the 8 bit games" is the absolute lowest bar hahaha
Those were running on 6 AA batteries in '91. They felt pretty good in context. Forces looks WORSE in its context w Mania, Gens...
Im genuinely shocked he actually like Claasic sonoc's gameplay..
For me not really.
I rather have level design.
Than no level design, because forces 3D level design has no level design, where it Makes me wonder, how did sega accepted that, or thought it was passable to release it in that state.
I also loved classic sonic
this game was the straw the broke the hedgehog’s back. I think the blandness and lack of vision was what actually insulted fans the most.
As 90% of this comment section is saying, the thing that sets this game apart from the other bad apples is more its advertising and the state of the franchise in 2017 rather than it being actually worse than the likes of Sonic Chronicles for example.
The fanbase at that time was almost reaching the Boiling Point due to extremely frequent glitchy, messy and experimental Sonic games (mainly due to Boom), and even if Mania released 3 months prior to Forces, a seventh of the fandom wanted a vanilla solid Modern Sonic game, and not a Classic Sonic game. And the advertising didn't help, since it was lowkey lying with the 'Creators of Colours and Generations' bs. So with all that, the hype that Forces got was so huge to the point that, when it finally released, the game did not meet even half of the expectations that the fanbase had, which resulted in a gigantic negative backlash, that was the moment when the fandom reached its Boiling Point.
The game is just meh, it definitely didn't deserve the hate it received, and I definitely do not understand the people in the comment section saying it's simply terrible.
24:54 This game took so much time to make for a myriad of factors, some outside of Sonic Team's control. After shipping Lost World, Sonic Team began development of the next iteration of the Hedgehog Engine, to be used in next generation hardware. The development of HE2 took around 4 years to complete, leaving a little over a year for ST to make Forces. They had the planning all complete, but I assume they were expecting Sega to give them time to make the game after wrapping up HE2, which didn't happen because Sega wanted to keep the momentum of Mania's release and it the Switch's first year in the market.
It is important to know ST doesn't make only Sonic games, they also develop technology to be used in other Sega games. It is known that Puyo Puyo and Sakura Wars also use HE, and it is believed ST aided in the development of some Yazuka/Like a Dragon games. Sonic Team is more of a label, internally they had different names, like Sega AM8 and Sega GE1. Many people come and go from Sonic Team since the beginning.
Another thing that happened that impacted in the development of Forces was the disaster that was Sonic Boom. It suck you're not making a video about Boom because I believe the damage done by Boom RoL was far greater than '06. Why? Because at very least, '06 sold well and made a profit, which allowed Sonic to keep going and eventually make good games. Boom RoL sold so poorly and was so poorly receive it instantly damaged the entire brand of Sonic Boom, which affected the TV show and merchandise sales.
Boom was Sega of America's idea, because they wanted their own spin on Sonic. The japanese branch didn't anything to do with it, but they invested a lot of money into it thinking the merchandise would give a good return. Lol no. Sega lost so much money with Boom they made many aggressive downsizing on Sonic Team and investments in the Sonic IP at this game. Many talented devs left to work at Nintendo, and the budget of Sonic was reduced, which is why Forces was a 40 USD game at launch.
The Sonic IP was simply not valuable to Sega in the 2010's, especially after Boom. And Mania, despite being an amazing game and very well receive, didn't meet sale's expectations - taking 8 months to reach 1 million sales. Not great for a 20 dollar game that was "the best Sonic game ever". There even was internal talks about replacing Sonic for Persona's Joker as Sega's mascot. Everything only changed because of the positive reception of the first Hollywood movie, and later Frontiers.
Forces was a victim of Boom's failure and Sega's upper management.
I'm not sure if I can agree that Sonic Team likely also hates this game when all their future ones continue to include many of the same problems (Frontiers, Shadow Generations etc.)
Otherwise though, I do agree that it's nice to think about how the developers actually feel after working on something like this. They probably didn't like it either, but again, it's hard for me to believe that when Frontiers just feels like "Open World Forces" and now they're super proud of it for some reason. Just more trend-chasing and reuse of previous assets.
Shadow Generations isn't even out yet lmao.
I would chalk that up to more not knowing what to do. If they don't do this kind of boost gameplay, what else is there? I saw in an interview a while back Iizuka said there's no way to evolve Sonic gameplay anymore, so they have to do new things instead. Which infuriated me to no end lol.
@@Pariah6950 He's half right. Iizuka at this point can probably only comprehend boost gameplay as the definitive modern Sonic gameplay and in that context, yeah boost is an inevitable dead end and you can feel that even in Generations. 06, Colors and their consequences have caused irreparable damage to the Sonic franchise and fanbase.
@@Darkghostwindwhat if the boost becomes momentum based, where the thicker the obstacles you boost through, the slower, weaker and/or worn down the boost becomes?
@@crimsonzone8984 Even if the boost was "momentum based" it wouldn't make a difference because the fundamental problem with the boost has nothing to do with momentum. The issue with boost is that it homogenizes game design. The boost in itself is such a powerful tool that does so many things at once it invalidates any other mechanic but not only that, due to the way Sonic controls, all the other mechanics have to be made into situational almost qte-like actions specifically to maintain the boost e.g. quick step, drift, arguably the lightspeed dash and due to it's properties i.e. covering a large distance in one direction very fast, every level has to be designed around that mechanic since said mechanic encompasses so much of the games general design.
Can't wait for the "Story of Sonic Forces", because i am going to tear this game's story apart, with no mercy.
Pariah always knows how to make the most funny intros lmao
Literally on the lowest point of my week right now and i load up my feed to see you dropping this video like it's nothing. Felt like getting a heart attack but good
And elden ring dlc comes out soon!
@@DonutSwordsman that is true, don't know why in the world you're bringing that up in a sonic video though
I think the main culprit of Forces' reception is time
Prior to Lost World, Sonic would have major releases almost yearly, either with mainline games or larger spinoff series. Lost World to Forces was a noticeably big gap, one of the biggest in a decade. And it doesn't help that, at the time, one of the main arguments for "how to make Sonic good" was for ST to slowdown, take their time with the next game, and release a quality product. Forces sort of became that proof of concept. The gap between games raised expectations becauses fans thought they were shifting towards that direction. And when it turned out to be the same story, it crashed a lot harder because of that. Of course it was later revealed that they only spent ONE year on the game and the rest on developing the Engine, but it didn't change the fact that Forces really shot down that hope fans had
And following that there's an even BIGGER gap between games, in one of the largest Sonic droughts (in terms of games) so far. Whereas in the 2000s era the franchise was releasing constant games with questionable quality, the late 2010s felt like the same quality but with much longer waits between titles. Couple that with Forces showing that "longer wait time =/= better game", the highest level of transparency from Sega and Sonic Team being twitter memes, and it's no surprise that fans started to grow a lot of resentment towards the franchise they once loved and stuck out for.
Forces is far from the worst Sonic game, but it is the stick that broke the camel's back
I think all the hate this game got was from Gen Z. We grew up on Unleashed and Generations and wanted a return to form. The story also looked like it was going to be darker. But it was all just marketing...
I was still a kid in 2017. I didn't question the low price or the trailers. I didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. Ever since Forces, I have become well-read in Sonic staff. I know exactly who made my favorite Sonic games, who is making them now, and why Sonic is the way it is today.
Interested. Well, it's still overhated. I love forces
@@Hyp3rSonic Well, good for you. There's some fun to be had with this game. But I can't look past all the bullshit to do that.
@@mrbanks456i never said to not call that out. But for me, i barely looked at the advertisement/marketing back then. Also, i would've liked to actually play the game to form my opinion, which did eventually happen. But for me, i had a lot of fun in Forces, especially since most of the levels where very short, which is to my liking.
Is Forces really worse than the likes of Unleashed though? At least Forces is Sonic gameplay through and through, whereas at least half of Unleashed is so far removed from Sonic that it may as well be its own game. Not to mention the mandatory medal collecting, inconsistent and generally lower framerate are all aspects that Forces does not suffer from.
@@snakey888 As someone who likes the warehog and appreciates the details of the world and all the little sides stories with all the NPCs, yes, Forces is worse.
And if we consider every other beloved Sonic game, non-sonic gameplay is just par for the course.
I feel like you're looking at Sonic Forces' over-hate incorrectly. In retrospect, it kinda sounds silly since it is not the worst Sonic game made, however, considering when it came out, I think the hate is completely justified.
Lost World - which is worse depending on who you ask - when was this released?
It was released during a period where the Sonic series had garnered good will due to a string of good games, not limited to just Generations. A few pits, but nothing horrendous. So people viewed Lost World as like a bad game, but it's just one game, we can trust Sega to bounce back.
Then what came after?
Around 4 years of garbage Sonic games in the form of the Boom series, and this was THE series at the time. People basically ignored the Boom brand and were waiting for the next mainline Sonic game.
We got that and that was Sonic Forces, which went back to what they knew... sort of. They went back to Boost, but with severely hindered everything. Classic Sonic is back and though I actually agree with you for the most part on his portions of the game, the game still feels like crap to play. Same with the Avatar, but at least there was something interesting with their play style.
Clearly, though, not even the custom OC could save the game because it's just that dull of a game. Doubly problematic considering it's a gameplay system that they should know how to navigate properly - at least the Boost formula.
And this is just on the gameplay. I have to admit, your skills in the game are pretty good, especially in the levels with no walls - it's a good thing you're a time attacker because then you can judge the game on the basis of how fun it is the do skips and not just on its core level design. But even you agree that numerous portions are far too straight or boring.
And I'm not sure if mods fixed this for you, but I was surprised you never mentioned the weird acceleration in this game, where you jog for about a second or two, then you immediately snap to full speed, or how going from running to stopping fully takes around a second, and it feels so disgusting to play.
But the thing that got me to realise something is horribly wrong with the series, is the story. It was legitimately interesting - honestly, most of the marketing made the game look rather decent, at least - but then it comes out and it was so far below my expectations. But I know you'll talk about it more in depth later.
I believe Sonic Forces is the Sonic 06 of the modern era - it's the straw that broke the camel's back. I think it's far more damaging to the series compared to Sonic 06 considering that Sega wasted tons of money on the Boom series, and they let the series go dormant for around 5-6 years.
If it wasn't for the comics or music they keep pumping out (via videos or concerts, etc.) then I would've just assumed the series let itself die.
I think your review of Forces as a game is completely fair, but I think your view on why this game is so despised is quite misguided.
Are you trying to downplay the damage that 06 dod? Extremely yikes imo 💀
@@Hyp3rSonic True, 06's damage is still felt to this day. And maybe the blame should be put on the Boom series instead because Forces is just a low-budget mediocre game. But at least 06 - compared to Boom - did well in its sales and all that. So we got Unleashed not long after, to sort of correct the mistakes of 06.
Also, and this part is purely in retrospect, I think 06 is just more interesting in general.
@@gamefreakDXwell, what other bad games had sold well? That's an interesting question. Anyways, why did many people get 06
@@Hyp3rSonic Good question. I don't know why. I'm going to assume Shadow didn't down the series enough, that game also sold extremely well. 06 got the 'Platinum Hits' treatment, so that means it sold well. I would also assume 06 was marketed rather well - like it looked legitimately good (and to be fair, if you look at some demo footage when they had the lost newer build, it does look fun).
Both of the above sold around 2 to 2.5 million copies. In comparison, Boom RoL and SC combined sold around 600k units. And F&I sold 250k units. That's not to mention the animated series that Sega also had to have pumped money into.
Also should be noted that the internet was a different beast back then. Maybe if it was as frequently used as it is today, then Shadow and 06 may have sold less. But you never know.
@@gamefreakDXinteresting. Well, do you know about other bad games that sold well?
Context always matters. It isn’t just the fact that it was another bad Sonic game, the marketing, the advertising and all of the shit that went into pre-launch led us to believe we were getting something that we ultimately didn’t. Also happened before right? Context again. Shadow and 06 were only a year apart. Lost World and Forces are 4 years apart. We waited 4 years for what we got and that’s part of the issue with me and (I think) a lot of people in the community. The game tries to do so much and not a damn thing all at once and it’s very bad at both.
At least, that’s how I view it.
Honestly, in terms of the level design and story execution, I would heavily prefer 06 over Forces. Because at least with 06, the team had something going for it that they desperately wanted to achieve, despite the development hell and conditions of Sonic Team at the time.
16:37 apparently during development a lot of the levels were gonna be longer but they pulled a colors and ended up splitting them into multiple smaller levels
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a game comprised of about 25 levels across 12 zones with 2 acts each (Hidden Palace and Sky Sanctuary are 1 zone more or less and doomsday is the final 25th level). Sonic Mania is the same
I've always wanted them to translate this into 3D with just giving us 12 zones x 2 acts = 24 NORMAL LENGTH AND FULLY 3D levels with the 25th being the mandatory super sonic final boss fight with replay value coming from playing with other characters or getting high ranks.
I saw some debugged Sonic Unleashed (PS2/Wii) levels and they did the same thing and it sucks because the debugged levels had some cool looking sections.
Classic move💀
I do hate on Forces even tho it’s an alright game. I just think it was very insulting how the game promised big stuff but the game felt like it was openly burdened by the current state of the sonic franchise at the time.
Being sauceless honestly is a bigger sin to people than flawed or even buggy gameplay. Just look at how many people trash on Insomniac for their lack of writing for Venom than the amount of people talking about the product of the game. Sonic Rivals, the storybook games, 3D Blast, and even the jank polish of Sonic Superstars are more appealing and give more than Sonic Forces because the game gives the sauce people want from a Sonic game. Why play Forces if you can play any other game, heck other Sonic games? Even the 8-bit games for the nostalgic warranty.
For a lot of people, Forces is what shattered the illusion that Sonic Team was "back" in a sense. Ever since Unleashed, Colors, and Generations, Sonic Team garnered enough goodwill among the fanbase to the point where they could confidently say that they finally got their act together. After a streak of bad games that dragged Sonic Team's reputation through the mud, it seemed like they finally worked out a solid gameplay formula they could stick with and bring Sonic back to relevancy.
Lost World meanwhile was seen as an experimental title that, while heavily flawed and not great, still had reasonable production value. That game still looks great graphically. Sonic Boom was a sponoff and was treated as such.
Then Forces came along and it's just totally indefensible in every way. Sonic Team wasted FIVE YEARS on a game that's somehow more rushed than any of their post-06 games. Mania coming out of a few months earlier didn't help matters either, if anything the gulf of quality between them only highlighted just how bad Forces was. It's a total embarrassment that sent Sonic Team back to square one, and disillusioned a lot of people that had hope for them to be betrer than that.
Pretty sure they also spent most of the game’s development time just concept arting instead of developing
_"This is an illusion, open up your eyes and/The pain persists"_ - Infinite's theme
He was trying to warn us.
@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778
Yeah, Frontiers also suffered a similar issue. Sonic Team in general has gotten REALLY bad at time management as of late.
More people understand why this game is 100 times more playable than rise of lyric like me?
I never played rise of lyric. However, i had fun with Forces, but it still has flaws(like every sonic game in existence tbh)
Well, yeah. Pressing down one button and making a sandwich is a lot more replayable than frustration and brokenness.
@@JamesP7is that sarcasm? 🤔
@@Hyp3rSonic No. Its the same reasoning as to why The Good Dinosoar is a worse movie than Brave.
@@JamesP7 your point is??? Also, I barely watch movies, and I definitely didn't watch those 2
I don’t think anyone _actually_ thinks this is the worst Sonic game, but it’s kind of more the straw that broke the camel’s back. There was a 4 year gap between Lost World to Forces and 5 before Frontiers. It was rough knowing we had to wait so long for something so mid.
After how long we spent in the Boom era, this just felt bad.
Yeah. Nobody likes mediocre slop. Sure it’s not bad but mediocre is not better it’s worse because mostly will be fine with that instead of getting good sonic games
@@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778The same reasoning as to why many movie/game reviewers will rate something mediocre or with missed potential far lower than something just bad.
Pariah doesn't seem to consider Forces is what we got after the BOOM disaster, making the franchise look without potential... when Forces was booming with potential.
Pariah not reviewing the games in cronological order and skipping games like Boom and Runners (also made by Sonic Team) sometimes can be a detriment to his reviews. I know he wants to review every game as a isolated piece that you can buy and play now, but when it comes to Sonic more often than not context plays a huge role in how a game came out to be and how it is received.
@@CanaldoZenny A game should be reviewed by itself. That’s just basic common sense.
He said in part 2 of his 06 video that his videos are not retrospectives and are entirely just reviews of these games AS games by themselfs. In that sense, it shouldn't matter whether or not the game came out before, during or after something else.
@@shinkai9kami162facts
@@parcanshy73yep!
This video is laced with so much contempt. "That game sucked. This idea was stupid."
Huh?
I never appreciated the time attack potential with the Wispons until I started time attacking Sonic Forces Overclocked... but at that point I was so sick of the base game and the whiny discourse surrounding it that I didn't even want to go back and actually try to time attack the base Avatar stages 💀
I get both sides of the argument, "game's mid, move on", and "oh my god this game wasted so much potential it drives me insane", because both are true. But I do think a large part of my fatigue with Forces is just how much of the fanbase was losing their shit over it and how many mods I played and how many video essays I watched, all just grasping desperately to try to realize that squandered potential and Frankenstein the game into something amazing... and that never happened.
I think with Shadow Generations, I'm just going to stay out of the discourse, ESPECIALLY on that toxic shithole site Twitter, and just experience it for myself and like what I like and dislike what I don't, and then move the fuck on. Because I have wasted so many hours of my life on Forces that regardless of the quality of the game itself, I'm now sick to death of just the idea of Sonic Forces.
It's been almost three years since you started this series and now we're just one game away from being up to date with the mainline games... crazy.
Was a long and fun journey though
I think the big problem people have with this game is that the trailers promised something epic...and the game completely failed to live up to those promises. Even Shadow's inclusion as a playable character didn't save the game, although it was one of the better aspects.
The marketing for this game was straight up malicious
Crazy how the team made the greatest sonic game in 10 years got dissolved shortly after
I expected the video to be longer, but it will be good anyways
Keep up with such great work!!
I have nothing but contempt for this game
Sonic Forces may not be a buggy game, but for a lot of people the worst thing a game can be is fucking boring. And Sonic Forces is, to a lot of people, really fucking boring. Even compared to "bad" Sonic games.
Oh boy here it comes
23:49 My man ruthlessly dissing Classic Tails' character
I thought I was the only one who thought of Classic Tails when he brought that up.
I think one of the biggest problems with Sonic Forces is that it came out after Sonic Mania, apart from the disappointment of the fans
I agree that the hate for this game is overblown, like I do have an alright time with this game when I do play it, unlike some other games in this series. I think people only hate it as much as they do because it's such a lame game. Any game that's worse like 06 or the storybook games or whatever still tried to be something, but I really don't think Forces did. I personally just see this game as Generations again, but worse. It definitely doesn't deserve to be seen as the worst game, but I have more respect for basically any other game in the series.
This is quite true, Sonic Forces isn't as awful as people say it's honestly just mid like a lot of sonic games
Fans treat it like how the public treated 06
Oh?
Well the public made that aged well. Treating it as sonic 06.
I checked frontiers development. And the devs said in frontiers, “if frontiers fails or sell badly, the sonic game franchise is dead and done, And sonic team is done.”
Forces nearly eliminated sonic, as a game franchise. Since the movie franchise, and shows sonic does, is giving companies more money, than the games before frontiers.
@@Mrnoobestreturns Same with 06
@@Mrnoobestreturns
Sonic 06 had to make up for the negative reception Shadow got. By this logic, Then people would be saying that Shadow nearly killed the franchise.
No Forces didn’t nearly kill the series. Crippled it, yes. But it all hinged on Frontiers success.
@@gameman5804 yeah i was typing it in as a game franchise, i feel like the 2020s sonic movies, saved the entire franchise reputation, more than anything.
Because the sonic franchise does multiple of things aside from gaming,
I'd say forces represented everything people dislikes about boost games, like how 06 represented everything people disliked about the adventure formula
Forces is like Color Splash but everyone thinks its Sticker Star.
Sonic Forces could have been alright if it at least used Generations's physics, trying to retrofit the Lost World physics engine into Generations style gameplay, broke what worked about it, and the mostly empty level design and generally poorly handled physics, makes it a way worse experience to play than Lost World if you ask me...
Before i didn't get sonic. I would get frustrated. Sonic Forces playing itself and me having no expectations showed me what could be fun about Sonic. Forces was "baby's first sonic" for me so i think of it fondly for that. Thanks for breaking down nuance and not just passionately defending one side.
Forces is the Zero Gravity of boost-formula Sonic games.
This is my first Sonic game after taking a hiatus for a while from the series since Generations (which I never got got finish) and I thought it was fun. Not mind blowing but it was engaging enough as a decent break after work. Hate is totally unwarranted here.
Honestly the hate is pretty much completely justified for this game.
The level design is atrocious. Worse than any other Sonic game I’ve played. The control is so god damn bad. There’s nothing in the gameplay that would ever want me to come back.
The story conceptually is interesting but in execution is crap and characterisation is awful, especially for Tails. Even the music is pretty mediocre which for a Sonic game is a bad sign
Edit: Seeing your gameplay I have to say well done. But why would anyone play this game enough to get that good at taking shortcuts in these uninspired stages?
Ah yes the infamous "Just play Mania" game.
I'd actually opine the timeline between Lost World and this game was much more awkward and disconcerting.
YES
Yaaaay he finally did it!!! We can’t wait for frontiers
"Sonic Forces was good"
*Proceeds to rant about everything bad about the game*
The reason this game is so hated, even more than stuff like Sonic 06 is because it's fundamentally a "nothing" game.
Forces isn't just "mediocre", not being broken and working like it's supposed to doesn't mean shit to me if the game plays like utter garbage, as garbage as a game like 06 is that game at the very least tried to do something with it's level design y'know, failing at it but hey, it's something at least.
Forces is a numbed down version of a formula that is already numbed down from the beginning, the boost ever since the Rush games is a flanderized version of what SA2/Advance 2/Advance 3 were going for completely missing the mark that those games were speed focused but were all about efficient movement and stylish play and not having the option to reach highspeeds by just the press of a button, which is just a glorified run button.
But at least I can give merit to Unleashed, Colors or Gens for doing something with this formula even if it's fundamentally flawed, and Forces is really a bunch of nothing, I don't think mindlessly boosting and getting away with it is something I could do in any of the previous games but Forces certainly does, and having to jump occassionally, perform binaries occassionally or go through the most shallow platforming means anything to me, the level design in this game is truly as disjointed as fans make it out to be, and that's not all of it but every other aspect about the game justifies the reaction people had specially when you had to wait 4 years for such a lackluster product after the disaster that was Boom that nearly killed the series and the disaster that was Lost World which makes a game like 06 look appealing in comparison.
Fast forward to 2024, with the release of Frontiers and now the upcoming Shadow Generations it's not like anything has changed because we're still getting more of this shallow, no style no substance level design, and it's amazing they somehow managed to repeat the same mistake in an open world videogame.
I don't think the issue with Forces is being corridor-like, the notion that corridor-like or lack of branching paths is such an issue to Sonic fans just makes me think they don't play anything outside of these games and assuming they even play their own games is a stretch, the issue is the lack of substance, there's no replay value to a game that doesn't ask for much input or thinking from the player, there's not a single moment in the game were a pasivity trap tricked me (if those even exist in this game) or a moment where I had to think about how to beat a platforming challenge more efficiently or be aware of mindlessly holding forward because the game might punish me for doing that, but it doesn't. I don't think they should've made the most ambitious or grand Sonic game because Forces is already somewhat ambitious, but people expected a decent game at the bare minimum and we got something much worse than that.
With all that said, I think every single bit of backlash this game received is 100% justified, even if fans may have overreacted a bit I really don't blame them at all.
Trying to do something means nothing if it isn't done well lmao stop meat riding 06 that game is dog shit.
The story just loses me
@@nobodycares607 I don't even like 06 to begin with, I just don't find it as shit as games like Forces, Lost World or Frontiers, which play worse and also have no idea what they want to do.
There is fun to be had with Forces, it's kinda like Frontiers' cyberspace with the short levels and bad controls but still fun to time attack
I think you're onto something with how regularly Sonic games released, spinoff perception and the criticism around this game.
Forces being the most recent "real" non-spinoff game which wasn't a Wii U exclusive, tied to a cartoon or obviously a storybook spinoff put some expectations on. It was framed as Generations 2 from marketing and having Classic Sonic in which is the real reason why he is in the game.
That said, I still don't think price is a shield for this game though. Basically every 3D boost game was a fully featured title even if only Unleashed did so to a shocking degree and it did not release at an indie price tag.
They just managed their resources poorly which we can say for basically any 3D Sonic.
22:27 The missed opportunity comments likely come from the fact that the premise was long overdue, and inherently comes with many possible directions and ideas. Eggman taking over the world and causing a resistance, as a proper take on that formula that people liked about SatAM, is an idea that when you imagine a competent dev team behind, sounds incredible in your mind. But THIS is the team that was handed THIS plotline. The team that half assed a nothing burger and functionally wasted a premise, based on Sega's track record of being scared to repeat good things if they are associated with bad products. So they may never even try that again for whatever reason and now all we have to associate with that strong idea is... this...
I think Sonic 4 has more personality than Sonic Forces
Nah
The propaganda style is way better than whatever Sonic 4 was trying to achieve.
@@Kelps.mp4still think that sonic 4 is also overhated. At least it massively improved on the original boss of 2, as I think that the OG death egg robot is an extremely bad boss
Interesting take Pariah, but kinda fair, Forces I kinda forgot about fir a while, I do think the false marketing as this big grand dark adventure made by the top link Sonic Team members soured everyone's taste but Forces kinda just, exists, didn't make Sonic a laughing stock, not a broken mess, it's just half baked. Good video!
Now do Sonic was always Sonic Dash 1, 2 and Forces Speedbattle lol.
I remember when it first came out people just thought it was ok and then recently it became this thing that was somehow “worse then 06”
Wild how over time, the popular opinion can change. Mostly for the worse...like, Forces is no where as bad as 06.
@@Hyp3rSonic Both games give you zero reason to play them because so many better alternatives exist.
So sure. Forces is better than 06. But garbage=garbage so it doesn't really matter.
Let's say for the sake of argument that Sonic 06 is a 3/10 and Forces is a 5 or 6/10. What does that actually mean for the products in question?
Both are not fun, both have tons and tons of better alternatives and both are just embarrassments for the franchise.
Both are equally garbage because both provide zero value for the general playerbase.
Why would anyone play 06 as long as the Adventure games exist? (P-06 is something completely different).
Why would anyone play Forces as long as Unleashed, Generations or even Colors exist?
Or heck:
Let's look at games which released around the same time. Why would anyone play Forces as long as Mario Odyssey, Crash Trilogy or the Spyro Trilogy exists?
In terms of game quality there is no reason to touch Forces or 06. And at that point both games are equally garbage.
And yes. A 5 or 6/10 game is a garbage game for most people. Because why would anyone play a mid product as long as great products exist?
Like it or not, but the only reason why we even talk about a game like Sonic Forces is not because the game is in any way good or even memorable...but because it's Sonic and Sonic is a beloved franchise.
This game was always considered worse than 06. I’ve seen dozens of Sonitubers praising the 06 story. Meanwhile, Forces is nothing but broken promises and missed potential.
@@tadaokou4919 respectfully disagree about Forces being as bad as 06. But both are still weak games. Still had fun playing it tho. In fact, I prefer any other 3d boost game that's not Unleashed. Not saying that Unleashed is bad or anything, but I just found more enjoyment playing Forces, Generations and Colors. Also, imo, I just found them better games. Also, I would rather play sa1 or 06 over sa2, for the same reasons why I listen before... mostly. 06 is still a bad game, its just that more frustration playing sa2, and I find that game extremely flawed. I actually find Forces to be very decent, but worse compared to Generations and Colors, not so much Unleashed. But that doesnt mean that I didnt like Unleashed or sa2. It's just that, am I supposed to ignore the flaws? Like, Unleashed would be great if I ignored the forced medals, slippery controls in the day stages, and the werehog to take up more than half of the playtime normally
@@tadaokou4919 also, I would prefer to actually play the game im interested in, before I form my opinion. Ofc, I may develop or change it, but I would much prefer to not copy others opinion at random.
Replaying levels I get better at definitely is a fun thing I like to do in sonic games, but unfortunately that doesn’t make every game fun for me. I definitely agree that hate went overboard, but I also think people who disliked it, especially Sonic content creators, felt the need to make it clear that this is not what we wanted when hearing sega reps and some reviewers talk about it like it was exactly what we wanted
atleast the "bad" games mentioned have some charm and redeeming qualities to them. whether it be an interesting story, interesting character interactions, unique locations, or just really good music. I feel like Forces doesn't have any of that, and the cherry on top is the game just is not fun to play.
for me, the charm of Sonic Forces is in the character creator, the soundtrack isn't bad either
@@KC.086I personally can not stand the synth. it’s extremely grating on the ears and it causes all the songs to blend together. I think Luminous Forest is the only standout, in my opinion atleast
@@deanmoriarty6015 On the contrary, the synths give their own identity to the music of Sonic Forces and that is more than enough to have good music in a Sonic game. That you don't like the use of synths in music, it's already something of your preference and I respect that.
I've been waiting for this
There's actually code for Sonic's wall jump. It's functional but unused. Anyway, I'll write more later since I've been craving for this video.
I’m curious about your thoughts on rolling rascal as a time attack connoisseur. Potential future video?
The avatar was the main reason I got this game. Not because I was going to make an OC though. My username tells you what characters I was going to make. My overall thoughts are that it is the worst Sonic game I ever played but not the worst game I ever played. I don't like it but I don't hate it either. I just found it forgettable.