Bowser's dead brother is a reference to how in SMB The Lost Levels, there is a blue colored Bowser who appears in a few of the final levels. Apparently, an old Japanese guide book for the Mario All Stars implies that he is Bowser's twin. But since he's never been seen again most fans joke that he just straight up died lol
Reason bowser lost to ganon in that episode was due to just terrible research for both characters, more so for bowser. If that match happened with current death battle, the fight would be a stomp for bowser.
Yeah, exactly my train of thought! They severely lowballed Bowser in that battle. I think it would be cool if they actually went back into the repertoire of older battles with newer and better research to see if the results change. Like with Zelda VS Peach and how they now have Princess Peach Showtime and Echoes of Wisdom to grab from.
@@SynSableVT They did do a rematch for cloud vs link, where the first time they fought link won, but that was during the first season. They re did that fight in 2021
@@willwong9615 Yeah, I know they did the rematch of Cloud VS Link, as well as they are redoing Master Chief VS Doomguy. Just hoping they do more of them.
Tracking Sage Throughout Bowser Vs. Eggman, and Explaining Why One Billion Simulations Wasn't Enough; 1. Sage appears once Bowser has been 'defeated'. She claims that "the fight is over before it has begun," likely meaning that whatever plan she put into action (playing Infinite early, using Metal Sonic as a contingency to grab the Ruby, and unleashing Neo Metal if that failed) had succeeded. She believes the fight has already ended. 2. Fury Bowser is introduced, and his flashy introduction gives Sage time to run further scenarios. With this in mind, she suddenly flees, retreating to gague Bowser's power, and possibly, ensure Neo Metal is still in the fight. 3. Sage suddenly reappears, granting a shield for Eggman. Notably, she holds this shield even when Bowser slams down on it, meaning that she wasn't just protecting Eggman from the black spikes, but she was likely buying time for Neo Metal to transform. 4. This gambit pays off, and Super Neo Metal Sonic proceeds to body the shit out of Bowser. The empire has their win condition, and Sage her mission: protect Eggman while Neo Metal cleans up. One small problem; Chance Time could still swipe the Emeralds. 5. Thus, a solution presents itself; bait out Kamek. She launches a barrage of Badniks at Fury Bowser, a feeble attack, but one that would cause any worthwhile sorcerer to fret about their king with how many she launched. Kamek shows up and, taking the bait, blocks the assault. 6. Once more, this pays off; Super Neo Metal is more than strong enough to burst through the barricade, and eliminate Kamek. Unfortunately, one small problem becomes one BIG problem... 7. ... When Junior hits the ground. Invoking a rage in Bowser that eclipsed his previous fury. 8. Bowser consumes a Grand Star, and blasts Neo Metal. Sage has no clue what a Grand Star is capable of, and is likely convinced that Super Neo Metal could handle it... But the data lies to her, as she watches Metal not only lose his super form as it's completely overwhelmed, but be irreparably annihilated. 9. Sage's "no!" Is so telling. That was it. That was their path to victory, paved over because of one stupid mistake. A miscalculation due to a lack of data. 10. Suddenly, everything is happening all at once. Tons of new factors are introduced out of nowhere, as Bowser creates a black hole that consumes most of Eggman's fleet and weaponry. It even rips apart the Death Egg Robot. She can't run simulations and scenarios, if new factors keep showing up. And since the black hole doesn't consume everything, she can't run the data with full confidence, as she can't keep track of what she is and isn't able to factor in. And then, as Eggman makes a call, she does what she was programmed to do. 11. Sage follows orders. Why wouldn't she? The Death Egg is available, she has the Emeralds, surely a blast from orbit empowered by the seven Chaos Emeralds would be enough to win. It might destroy their army. Aiming it at Bowsers army having seen his protectiveness over it to bait him into tanking the attack. 12. And he takes the bait, ending Bowser and presumably leaving his army without their king.... 13. But it doesn't, and Bowser's BONES get right back up again reanimating with magic she has no data on. 14. She escapes transmutation, but what does she even do? Where does she go from here? All their options just either got annihilated by a black hole, or turned into a goddamn cube. Her only option, as seen in the aftermath, is to wait. Bide her time so she can figure out... What the hell she even CAN do anymore. Basically; there were far too many variables that even if eggman DID have literally all possible information on bowser that accounting for all of them would be quite literally impossible, countering all of them would be impossible, they do not have the tech available to counter Bowsers army even with archie stuff, including things like the time stones which control all of time, given bowser has willed himself through time and space and kamek has magic to do the same, it'd not actually work on him, or it might for a second before bowser just uses one of his reality warping items to erase time itself and the stones for good measure, just to restore it later AFTER turning eggman into ground beef. Sonics world doesn't really have power ups in the same way bowsers does as well, plus they are infinitely more plentiful, not to mention items like the retry clock (which sets the battle back to the beginning and doesn't matter if time is erased or not) 1 up mushrooms (which are canon in mario as extra lives given that in one of the galaxy games if you are doing a luigi mission {I think it was guiding him somewhere?} and you fall into a black hole, luigi will ask if you are ok because he heard a scream) and an innumerable other options that bowser could just summon at all times, fire flowers, pow blocks, stop watch (which doesn't have to have time exist to work either it's more like a status effect that freezes literally everything in place)
The animator also said that Infinite isn't dead he is just stuck under the thwomp and it worked because he made the gravity stronger making the thwomp go down faster because he is heavy.
@@SynSableVT Although one can argue that Infinite himself is wishing otherwise. After all, in the grand scheme of things in Sonic-verse, without being affiliated with Eggman and without the Phantom Ruby, what is Infinite if not Shadow's Nearly Forgotten Randomly Numbered Punching Bag?
@@SynSableVTSorry to break it to you, but he would, and not even need gravity boost more over that. A simple hit from shadow is enough for beat him, you see Infinite as powerful but remember that he is nothing without the phantom ruby, and he is weak physically, plus if one twomps is enough for dommage Mario, then trust me, *IT WAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE* than enough for kill Infinite.
@marx2875 that's fair. I never played the game with Infinite so I always assume that the bosses are strong; thus getting done in by a Thwomp seems kinda wild.
BTW the animation was made by one person his name is MORØ and he has made his own animations and put them on TH-cam they are incredible plus he also made those alternate scenarios he did say that he couldn't add those alternate scenarios in the fight because it would of taken too long to add and it would of been to long of a fight.
Yeah, I remember hearing that one animator did the fight. I really wish future fights would do that and show alternative endings or situations. I think it's a really cool addition to showcase other ways how the fight could have gone (it feels like deleted scenes at that point)
@@SynSableVT I am sure they will because they did it in this one it just depends on how long the animation takes and how many alternate scenarios there are.
Yeah, ever since the OmniDock fiasco, I tried reading the black boxes more, and honestly it's kinda fun catching the tidbits of info they didn't fit into the commentary of the battle. :D
Thanks for clipping that scene! It just reminded me that Death Battle now has another person they sent to the sun and more reason for them to get the time share (reference to Goku Black VS Reverse Flash)
BTW the Super Eggman and Super Neo Metal Sonic is cannon because the IDW comics are cannon to the games not the Archie Comics because they are a lot of differences between the games and the Archie Comics because if they were cannon then Sonic could go Ultra Sonic and a lot of people know how broken that Sonic is even Base Sonic in the Archie Comics is known to be so broken.
@@SynSableVT from knowing them both; no, even archie eggmans stuff is still mostly tech that can be broken or stolen with little counterplay since eggs stuff doesn't really have a way to block that or even steal it back, bowser just has so many options when it comes to not having his items taken AND taking items from others (since they didn't mention it but kamek can and has 100% rigged the spinner before) not to mention that kameks ability stopping or even just flat out turning EVERY item that eggman has into a flip flop would work.
@@folmhaigh039 Yeah, I think I mentioned it in the beginning of the video, but I definitely saw Bowser winning just because it came down to essentially a battle of science vs magic. Sure, science can make some very insane things, but it wont do much if it gets turned into a frog for example
@@SynSableVT people like to argue that he has reality warping so he could just change it back but wtf is he supposed to do when the reality warping item is the thing that got changed? or just stolen.
Honestly, same. I really watch these battles to learn more about the characters, as well as be intrigued by all the math and interpretation of feats. Kind of a hate take, but ever since the last season, they really picked up on quality. Like I think since Harley Quinn VS Jinx.
Sadly after I was done recording, I found out I can only boost the volume of the battle itself up by so much in Adobe :( I'll have the issue fixed for the next battle.
Yeah, sadly I forgot to turn up the volume when recording and my editing software only let me up the volume by so much. I'll have it fixed for the next episode.
Bowser's dead brother is a reference to how in SMB The Lost Levels, there is a blue colored Bowser who appears in a few of the final levels. Apparently, an old Japanese guide book for the Mario All Stars implies that he is Bowser's twin. But since he's never been seen again most fans joke that he just straight up died lol
Wait, really?! :O Man, this is why I love Death Battle and comments like this; I keep missing out on fun facts like this ♥
I headcanon that the Dry Bowser that shows up in spinoffs alongside Bowser is him.
Reason bowser lost to ganon in that episode was due to just terrible research for both characters, more so for bowser. If that match happened with current death battle, the fight would be a stomp for bowser.
Yeah, exactly my train of thought! They severely lowballed Bowser in that battle. I think it would be cool if they actually went back into the repertoire of older battles with newer and better research to see if the results change. Like with Zelda VS Peach and how they now have Princess Peach Showtime and Echoes of Wisdom to grab from.
@@SynSableVT They did do a rematch for cloud vs link, where the first time they fought link won, but that was during the first season. They re did that fight in 2021
@@willwong9615 Yeah, I know they did the rematch of Cloud VS Link, as well as they are redoing Master Chief VS Doomguy. Just hoping they do more of them.
Also there weren't that many games back then too
Also Fury Bowser wasn't a thing back then
Tracking Sage Throughout Bowser Vs. Eggman, and Explaining Why One Billion Simulations Wasn't Enough;
1. Sage appears once Bowser has been 'defeated'. She claims that "the fight is over before it has begun," likely meaning that whatever plan she put into action (playing Infinite early, using Metal Sonic as a contingency to grab the Ruby, and unleashing Neo Metal if that failed) had succeeded. She believes the fight has already ended.
2. Fury Bowser is introduced, and his flashy introduction gives Sage time to run further scenarios. With this in mind, she suddenly flees, retreating to gague Bowser's power, and possibly, ensure Neo Metal is still in the fight.
3. Sage suddenly reappears, granting a shield for Eggman. Notably, she holds this shield even when Bowser slams down on it, meaning that she wasn't just protecting Eggman from the black spikes, but she was likely buying time for Neo Metal to transform.
4. This gambit pays off, and Super Neo Metal Sonic proceeds to body the shit out of Bowser. The empire has their win condition, and Sage her mission: protect Eggman while Neo Metal cleans up. One small problem; Chance Time could still swipe the Emeralds.
5. Thus, a solution presents itself; bait out Kamek. She launches a barrage of Badniks at Fury Bowser, a feeble attack, but one that would cause any worthwhile sorcerer to fret about their king with how many she launched. Kamek shows up and, taking the bait, blocks the assault.
6. Once more, this pays off; Super Neo Metal is more than strong enough to burst through the barricade, and eliminate Kamek. Unfortunately, one small problem becomes one BIG problem...
7. ... When Junior hits the ground. Invoking a rage in Bowser that eclipsed his previous fury.
8. Bowser consumes a Grand Star, and blasts Neo Metal. Sage has no clue what a Grand Star is capable of, and is likely convinced that Super Neo Metal could handle it... But the data lies to her, as she watches Metal not only lose his super form as it's completely overwhelmed, but be irreparably annihilated.
9. Sage's "no!" Is so telling. That was it. That was their path to victory, paved over because of one stupid mistake. A miscalculation due to a lack of data.
10. Suddenly, everything is happening all at once. Tons of new factors are introduced out of nowhere, as Bowser creates a black hole that consumes most of Eggman's fleet and weaponry. It even rips apart the Death Egg Robot. She can't run simulations and scenarios, if new factors keep showing up. And since the black hole doesn't consume everything, she can't run the data with full confidence, as she can't keep track of what she is and isn't able to factor in. And then, as Eggman makes a call, she does what she was programmed to do.
11. Sage follows orders. Why wouldn't she? The Death Egg is available, she has the Emeralds, surely a blast from orbit empowered by the seven Chaos Emeralds would be enough to win. It might destroy their army. Aiming it at Bowsers army having seen his protectiveness over it to bait him into tanking the attack.
12. And he takes the bait, ending Bowser and presumably leaving his army without their king....
13. But it doesn't, and Bowser's BONES get right back up again reanimating with magic she has no data on.
14. She escapes transmutation, but what does she even do? Where does she go from here? All their options just either got annihilated by a black hole, or turned into a goddamn cube. Her only option, as seen in the aftermath, is to wait. Bide her time so she can figure out... What the hell she even CAN do anymore.
Basically; there were far too many variables that even if eggman DID have literally all possible information on bowser that accounting for all of them would be quite literally impossible, countering all of them would be impossible, they do not have the tech available to counter Bowsers army even with archie stuff, including things like the time stones which control all of time, given bowser has willed himself through time and space and kamek has magic to do the same, it'd not actually work on him, or it might for a second before bowser just uses one of his reality warping items to erase time itself and the stones for good measure, just to restore it later AFTER turning eggman into ground beef.
Sonics world doesn't really have power ups in the same way bowsers does as well, plus they are infinitely more plentiful, not to mention items like the retry clock (which sets the battle back to the beginning and doesn't matter if time is erased or not) 1 up mushrooms (which are canon in mario as extra lives given that in one of the galaxy games if you are doing a luigi mission {I think it was guiding him somewhere?} and you fall into a black hole, luigi will ask if you are ok because he heard a scream) and an innumerable other options that bowser could just summon at all times, fire flowers, pow blocks, stop watch (which doesn't have to have time exist to work either it's more like a status effect that freezes literally everything in place)
The animator also said that Infinite isn't dead he is just stuck under the thwomp and it worked because he made the gravity stronger making the thwomp go down faster because he is heavy.
Ahhh, that makes way more sense! Was about to say, there's no way someone like Infinite could be done in by a simple Thwomp lol
@@SynSableVT Although one can argue that Infinite himself is wishing otherwise.
After all, in the grand scheme of things in Sonic-verse, without being affiliated with Eggman and without the Phantom Ruby, what is Infinite if not Shadow's Nearly Forgotten Randomly Numbered Punching Bag?
@@SynSableVTSorry to break it to you, but he would, and not even need gravity boost more over that. A simple hit from shadow is enough for beat him, you see Infinite as powerful but remember that he is nothing without the phantom ruby, and he is weak physically, plus if one twomps is enough for dommage Mario, then trust me, *IT WAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE* than enough for kill Infinite.
@marx2875 that's fair. I never played the game with Infinite so I always assume that the bosses are strong; thus getting done in by a Thwomp seems kinda wild.
I think you’re the first TH-camr I’ve seen that’s noticed that reference at the beginning of the fight!
What can I say? Shadow the Hedgehog got called out on Twitter.com, and I was there for the declaration!
Bowser tried to protect his army several times, from Infinite's gravity, to the death egg's beam, no wonder that Bowser's army is so loyal
**Eggman attacks the lowliest Goomba**
Bowser: and I took that personally
❤️
BTW the animation was made by one person his name is MORØ and he has made his own animations and put them on TH-cam they are incredible plus he also made those alternate scenarios he did say that he couldn't add those alternate scenarios in the fight because it would of taken too long to add and it would of been to long of a fight.
Yeah, I remember hearing that one animator did the fight. I really wish future fights would do that and show alternative endings or situations. I think it's a really cool addition to showcase other ways how the fight could have gone (it feels like deleted scenes at that point)
@@SynSableVT I am sure they will because they did it in this one it just depends on how long the animation takes and how many alternate scenarios there are.
Ooo somepne whi reads the black boxes :)
Yeah, ever since the OmniDock fiasco, I tried reading the black boxes more, and honestly it's kinda fun catching the tidbits of info they didn't fit into the commentary of the battle. :D
Wahoo!
Lets-a-go!
9:27 the Broodals are the rabbit bosses from Mario Odyssey
Oh yeah!!!! I almost forgot about those rabbit bosses lol. I should play through Odyssey again, it's been too long.
42:21
Eggman:I TRULY AM SCIENTIST
Bowser:KOKUSEN!!!!
Thanks for clipping that scene! It just reminded me that Death Battle now has another person they sent to the sun and more reason for them to get the time share (reference to Goku Black VS Reverse Flash)
BTW the Super Eggman and Super Neo Metal Sonic is cannon because the IDW comics are cannon to the games not the Archie Comics because they are a lot of differences between the games and the Archie Comics because if they were cannon then Sonic could go Ultra Sonic and a lot of people know how broken that Sonic is even Base Sonic in the Archie Comics is known to be so broken.
Is there actually anything in Archie comics that you think would have turned the fight in Eggman's favor?
@@SynSableVT I have just heard even Archie Eggman is broken but Idk because I haven't read the Archie Comics.
@@SynSableVT from knowing them both; no, even archie eggmans stuff is still mostly tech that can be broken or stolen with little counterplay since eggs stuff doesn't really have a way to block that or even steal it back, bowser just has so many options when it comes to not having his items taken AND taking items from others (since they didn't mention it but kamek can and has 100% rigged the spinner before) not to mention that kameks ability stopping or even just flat out turning EVERY item that eggman has into a flip flop would work.
@@folmhaigh039 Yeah, I think I mentioned it in the beginning of the video, but I definitely saw Bowser winning just because it came down to essentially a battle of science vs magic. Sure, science can make some very insane things, but it wont do much if it gets turned into a frog for example
@@SynSableVT people like to argue that he has reality warping so he could just change it back but wtf is he supposed to do when the reality warping item is the thing that got changed? or just stolen.
I didn't care who won but........THIS Death Battle is BETTER than BOTH Mario Vs. Sonic Death Battles hands down.
Honestly, same. I really watch these battles to learn more about the characters, as well as be intrigued by all the math and interpretation of feats. Kind of a hate take, but ever since the last season, they really picked up on quality. Like I think since Harley Quinn VS Jinx.
49:03 good thing bowser is not afraid to adopt!
NGL, reading that at first, I thought "Oh God, please don't tell me Bowser Jr gonna die"
Whats eith the lack of sound frim the battle
Sadly after I was done recording, I found out I can only boost the volume of the battle itself up by so much in Adobe :(
I'll have the issue fixed for the next battle.
I want a rematch between bowser and ganondorf
You and me both! Especially considering you now have more games in Zelda like Tears of the Kingdom.
especially since their last research group told them that bowser would win and they had ganon win anyways
Kamek is a he
Kami is a she
Oh, I wasn't aware of that :O Thank you for the clarification!
I think it's spelled Kammy Koopa
everything to your voice and the video are pretty low
Yeah, sadly I forgot to turn up the volume when recording and my editing software only let me up the volume by so much. I'll have it fixed for the next episode.