The Flaws of THE PERSONA SERIES No One Talks About

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 44

  • @gabrielcohen9041
    @gabrielcohen9041 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Don't know why this showed up in my suggested. But I will give my thoughts as I like to see people that make input and counter thoughts. With that in mind.
    1. Repetitiveness - They are jrpgs, all jrpgs are repetitive that is part of the appeal. The growth of your character, but if you know what you are doing there are ways to speed it up.
    2. Protagonists - They are intentionally left empty in a sense to allow you to place yourself in who they are. To make them you in a sense.
    3. The Velvet Room - It is hella important for late game and end game content. If you are not using it, I question how deep you got into the later boss fights.

  • @MegaBoiLu
    @MegaBoiLu หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I have nothing but respect for the fact you put genuine criticisms you had out there, and while I didn’t end up agreeing with a lot of what you said, I actually did find myself agreeing with certain points or at the very least understanding where you came from. Like your points about the protagonists lacking character was one that particularly stood out to me. I completely agree on that front. The only true point of contention I have is with the “repetitive” gameplay as I feel the fact it is long is because it allows the game to flesh out its themes via social links and get you more attached to the cast overall. But honestly I can accept that my view is much more my opinion if anything.

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Thank you for your comment. My critiques are quite harsh, but in the end, it's really how I feel about the series from the bottom of my heart.

  • @Xenado22
    @Xenado22 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I think my biggest problem is how easy it is to find out an enemies weakness, especially in earlier games, like, 90% of the time it's just color theory. "oh a blue shadow with ice on its head, guarantee it's weak to fire" and basic things like that, I'm hoping in the future it's more like FF7 Remake, where it would take a turn to analyze the enemy, instead of just pressing a button and having Fuuka tell you. Throughout most of Episode Aigis, I go to a new floor, find the weakness of every enemy, have the automated assist find the weakness for me/shift to whoever has the weakness, and the game is essentially just the "F" key.

  • @joopvanhedel1372
    @joopvanhedel1372 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I hope they make the protagonist talk in Persona 6. and if not then I hope we get more Characters like Aigis. Aigis is a character where the story revolves around

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yes, I'm looking for the same. He'll probably still be a silent protagonist, but if he at least gives a bit more of what Joker was, I'll already be happy. One step at a time, at least.

  • @darthvaderbn
    @darthvaderbn หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    5:52 in persona 1 the entire squad can go to velvet room and no one will question it

  • @JuliusKingsleyXIII
    @JuliusKingsleyXIII หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I agree with you entirely on the protagonist being just a blank plot device. The anime of P4 showed how good and interesting Persona protagonists can be, and P5 did it again to a certain extent even if the actual anime itself was lower quality. I have always been confused and frustrated by Joker being voiced only like 5% of the time, and there are several missed opportunities with it. I understand maybe they can't be voiced all the time, but definitely more often than they are. They need to be a real character.
    For your other criticisms, about the length of the games and the velvet room, I think you missed the mark on the important parts from my perspective. You are technically correct on the subjects, but I think you missed on the details of why.
    I don't think the social links are the problem, I think it's all of the worthless filler between them. Why is it that I can take the subway across all of Tokyo without any time passing, but if I grab a coffee at a store that takes like 8 hours? And why do all of the Phantom Thieves need to have the same conversation of "we should hit the palace" and then "I wonder if the change of heart will work" literally every fucking day via texts? It's obnoxious. I think the player should be given 2 time slots per day (one for stats, one for links) and stop wasting our time with pointless filler text messages etc.
    For the velvet room, it is weird that the player never explains it to their friends but I don't think it's existence alone is a problem. My problem is how damn tedious it is. Instead of making it quick and easy to check your party, fuse, dismiss, do everything you need to do Atlus is constantly taking like 1 step forward and 2 steps back with how this damn room works. And fusion itself is a massive pain in the ass. Why did SMT4 have a fully featured built in fusion calculator to solve all your problems and then Persona 5 didn't? Why does SMT5 have reverse compendium fusion searches but Reload doesn't? Why do some games let you special fuse out of the compendium and others don't? Why can't I easily check and dismiss Personas without leaving the room or the dialogue menu? Shit just becomes so annoying.

  • @marka.t.s.8344
    @marka.t.s.8344 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I feel one way to make the Velvet Room more involved in the story is going back to how P1-2 and Q did it: Everyone knows and has access to the room, but alongside their regular Persona they also get a secondary Persona like it is in the Q games: that game balances it by splitting 4 and 4 skills for each, with the weaknesses of the main Persona. This doesn't have to be so intense as the design for this games is different, but think about the possibilities of making the Traits from 3R be benefits you get thanks to the secondary Persona, alongside 1/2 extra skills OR stat buffs. And you can either min-max your fusions so you're a 1 man army or fuse the Ultimate Persona for your party members SL and give it to them. That way, it can even work so 2nd tier awakenings go back to being part of the main story rather than how it is in later games, and you can even do cool challenges where you don't control the protagonist, but 4 of your team members. I feel it can be a great thing to do, specially if it's mandatory for certain battles outside DLC superbosses and such, and the difficulty spike is suddenly increased in a natural way.

  • @dolphinsrock09
    @dolphinsrock09 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I do agree with a lot of your points and the protagonist in these games can be taken in a lot of ways I think it's how u see the game. If you know the protagonist as a character in the game, yes, they come off as very one-sided. If you know the character as you in the game then it brings that character to life and I feel like this is what Atlus is going more for. Still, then I wish they would have more consequences when you say something wrong on social links you can always get a guide to be like this is the best answer. Still, if you play the game like I did through my first playthrough and freehand it and actually have consequences it would make the social links more interesting. I find a lot of the social links outdated a lot of times and repetitive between looking at Personas 3 and 5.
    Now when it comes to the velvet room I think there needs to be some type of game that this place is more explained It has been at least three games I do not know much about one or two. I think it would be interesting to have a game that focuses on the first Persona user and how they navigated all of this even though Persona 3 kinda gives us this idea it also shows that ideas like this and there might have been research prior. I think at some point the velvet room should be open to the whole group.

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you for your comment. It's a good point of view and suggestions for Atlus. Given the twists that Persona 5 brought related to the Velvet Room, I hope Persona 6 will have more of that. Though, expecting changes to the Social Link system might be asking for too much to them ngl. Unfortunately, it's something that's deeply embedded in the essence of Persona, and I believe it'll take a long time before they change anything related to it (comfort zone after all)

  • @pian-0g445
    @pian-0g445 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Personally, don’t find the lack of character for the MC to be an issue.
    They are a self-insert and never really tried to be anything but. Kind of like the doom slayer. There’s a bit of characterisation so you understand who you are playing, but nothing beyond that. And it’s definitely not the biggest issue with Persona due to the consistently great cast, even to the side characters.

  • @akai3974
    @akai3974 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Persona 5 is m to favorite out of all of them the theme just really hits for me persona 4 is another close one 3 is also good and I haven’t played 1 or 2 yet which I want to

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน

      The style of Persona 5 is incomparable, I really like it too. I'm thinking about replaying the game someday. I also really like Joker as a character, even though I have my criticisms as I said in the video. Persona 2 has an awesome storytelling if not the best in the entire series, if it receives a proper remake could become the best game in the series period

    • @akai3974
      @akai3974 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhiteHorsePrince I played it 3 different times cause I got p5 the original then I got royal and played it twice

    • @akai3974
      @akai3974 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhiteHorsePrince one flaw I will say is Haru like I wish she got screen time and one u said in the video is I feel like it’s to long and dragged out at times like overall the story is great but yes at times it feels like it gets dragged out

  • @Myespecial
    @Myespecial หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't agree with the point of the protagonists of persona the only reason Why the protagonists are so flat is for the mere fact that the Persona saga is made for you to insert yourself into the main character, hence the fact that you can have choices to respond and that you can give him any name, and my proof of this is the Makoto Yuki of the movies, He's probably the best character I've seen in terms of development and evolution, and why is that so? Because it's made in a medium where the joke isn't to insert yourself into a story, But tell you one, the protagonists of Persona are made in such a "flat" way because if they weren't it would become a more traditional RPG. That said, I can say that Makoto Yuki is the best protagonist of Persona.

    • @RedJLP
      @RedJLP หลายเดือนก่อน

      Then maybe this whole view is why I’m so against the dominant view in P4 circles, because where they’d tell me “you’re just so autistic that you need to maximise familiarity to maximise your attachment”, I’d reply that tradition is tradition for a reason. If I wanted a self-insert protagonist, I’d play a Western style RPG like Elder Scrolls or Baldur’s Gate. That’s also probably why where they’d say “Persona’s mood and gameplay has been established since P3 and there’s nothing you can do about it”, I’d focus instead on reevaluating the series’ perception of the relationship between Karl Jung and the Fool’s Journey, making all the Arcana have certain blatant consistencies relating to the symbolism of the card in question while still particular enough to the setting that they’re definitely from that particular game. The social side also wouldn’t be tied to romance and instead play in a way that draws more from Fire Emblem where other characters can get in on the Social Linking, not just the Fool, while narratively the romance would follow certain biases between Arcana: The Fool and the Lovers would feel the most tied to the themes and thus draw together naturally (but not actually formally getting together until late game for some slow burn), the Priestess is the only one who can reasonably tame the action oriented Chariot, the Emperor and the Empress would recognise each other as the most powerful representatives of their respective social roles, etc

  • @BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater
    @BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    the Velvet Room is fine imo, it serves its purpose as the compendium/fusion place (plus the music is nice). i agree with the other points, though, something tells me that these games are gonna get longer and longer with more social links (half of which are gonna be bad to painfully mid). a P6 playthrough is gonna average 200 hours with 10 hours of plot, which is why i'm not hyped for it at all

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh, yeah, speaking of Persona 6, I even forgot to mention the fact that we're going to have to wait like 2 or 3 years for the game to get its 'Royal' version to have the full experience of it. Goddamnit Atlus, and goddamnit for me too for forgetting about this

    • @crunchy303
      @crunchy303 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhiteHorsePrincethat won’t happen from here on out. The director of Atlus announced that that SMT V was the last rerelease game and from this point onwards, it’s going to be optional DLCs kinda like episode Aigis

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@crunchy303 That's great news! Thanks

  • @jorgexd8385
    @jorgexd8385 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    never cook again

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      Please let me continue cooking I love to cook

    • @jinxtheslugfromslugterra1760
      @jinxtheslugfromslugterra1760 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      hey bro can at least make a PB and jam sandwich... probably

    • @TrueLordShrek
      @TrueLordShrek หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      persona fans when criticism

    • @Hyp3rSonic
      @Hyp3rSonic หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@TrueLordShrekliterally

    • @hxxdiec428
      @hxxdiec428 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@TrueLordShrek which is why im suprised this isnt more popular. people like to feel like heros and repeat eachothers insults

  • @TsunarKelone
    @TsunarKelone หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think you misunderstood the point of the games, and the games might not be for you.
    The reason the games are repetitive is its supposed to emulate day to day life, its intentionally repetitive just as real life is, its also those down times that allow breaks and pacing to exist, if it was nonstop full moons it would be so difficult to actually grow your character. Slowing down, forming bonds with other people, living life to the fullest extent, its repetitive, its monotonous but its also what makes life worth living., having people in your life you can rely upon and turn to even if they aren't directly beside you is great.
    The protagonist isn't supposed to be a character, he's supposed to be an insert, complaining that the protagonist isn't much of a character is like complaining that link is very two dimensional or that the Pokémon trainer isn't really much, that's the point they are a self insert for you the character, video games are a medium where those type of characters can exist, it isn't like film where your watching a story unfold its a medium that can directly insert you into the story so self insert characters are more functional here than in film or books.
    The velvet room is VERY much a story purpose igor is a guide for the story that is unfolding, similar to a squire in older times he's there to help and guide you on your story but not intervene. Additionally he is a direct gameplay manifestation of point number one, he translated the bonds you make into power. If the velvet room didn't exist there would be no reason to form social links other than "I want to hehehe"
    Translation, I think your complaining about things that make the game the game, and this might not be the series for you, which is fine but what Persona does it performs SIGNIFICANTLY better than any of the counterparts that have attempted the same thing which is what makes it a masterpiece.

  • @chasetanner4822
    @chasetanner4822 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I won't lie,
    He kinda has a point with the persona MC being empty and one-dimensional.
    With ONLY the info from the games, the persona mc's feels like soulless puppets that are only able to move the plot along because they are under the control of the player.
    The only time you can see them have ANY personality of their own is when you have no control over their actions, like the anime, manga or movies.
    Best example of this is p4.
    P4 MC was very boring and bland in the game.
    But the when anime came out and he was given his own personality, that is when he became so popular.

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Gigachad comment right here guys ☝☝☝☝

    • @SachiAi
      @SachiAi หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      In the persona 3 movie they made the MC's personality of being empty into good use. Makoto being so nonchalant because ever since the accident on the bridge happened, he lost his parents and death enters him(turning him into like a patient zero of Apathy Syndrome)

    • @chasetanner4822
      @chasetanner4822 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@SachiAi
      I feel like p3 MC can be a bit of exception because it is in his very character to be empty and uncaring.
      But even when he is designed to be like that, due to him being out of our control by being in a movie, he can develop a personality of his very own.

  • @huhwhat21212
    @huhwhat21212 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    i don't think u finished p3reload did you? the flaws you say are it's strengths. it's alllllll symbolism

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes, I understand that, which is why today I like the game enough to give it a 7.5. The ending is simply amazing and I loved the experience (it was a solid 9/10), but here's the point: the rest of the game isn't like the ending, with good pacing, mystery, and plot development. It's the same as what we already know.

    • @BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater
      @BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      you just revealed that you didn't watch the second half of this 9 minute video LOL

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Explain yourself

    • @BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater
      @BaofuTheCanonicalPersonaHater หลายเดือนก่อน

      no

    • @huhwhat21212
      @huhwhat21212 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @WhiteHorsePrince i promise if you do a second playthrough you'll grow to love all of the small details about the story you missed the first time. to say that it's a negative that the main character is only there to be special and push the plot forward? ummm ya is that not what the player character is meant to do in any game? your actions make an impact. most extremely successful series have this same silent protagonist concept. literally pokemon lol. what this says to me is that you just don't enjoy the genre which is ok. p3 is text book. when i say it seems you didn't finish the game is when you say that the velvet room is essentually cringe power fantasy. ummm that is Exactly what it is and meant to be. it's to show the direct forward progression of your journey. right up till the end when the elevator doors open and you've reached the answer lol. the game is meant to be played more than once, and no one is forcing you to grind through Tartarus. skip through it if you want to, but it's the core gameplay loop ...

  • @Dvalyn
    @Dvalyn หลายเดือนก่อน

    true

  • @gama102100
    @gama102100 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Did you play Persona 3 or Persona 3 Reload?
    I mean, playing P3R and saying things about base P3 is such a bad understanding on the meaning of the game and the story behind it...
    Even still, you compalined a lot of stuff from any type of Jrpg gameplay...

    • @WhiteHorsePrince
      @WhiteHorsePrince  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I played both Persona 3 FES and Persona 3 Reload. This game taught me lessons that I’ll carry for the rest of my life, and it gave me strength during major challenges this year.
      But I haven't forgiven all the unnecessary time you have to, for example, grind through a tower with more than 200 floors where every floor is practically the same. It’s about making the most of your short time in life, yet they do this? Hypocrisy much?
      I've played many JRPGs, a lot, really, think of many, and I don't have more than 5 to tell you that are as repetitive as Persona

  • @spongethebob8658
    @spongethebob8658 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Persona 5 fan. Cringe.